Did Call Her Daddy's political gamble pay off?

Of all the campaign stops Kamala Harris could make, few probably expected her to take a seat in the Call Her Daddy studio.

The U.S. presidential candidate made an appearance on the show hosted by Alex Cooper, which is reportedly the most-listened to podcast by women. But did it move the needle on voters for Harris, or just divide Cooper's listener base?

Today on Commotion, culture writer Joan Summers talks about what we lose and what we gain when politicians give their time to pop culture podcasts rather than to journalists.

We've included some highlights below, edited for length and clarity. For the full discussion, listen and follow Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud on your favourite podcast player.

Elamin: Let's talk about the reaction to this interview. It has been really fascinating because it's been really intense and really critical online. What do you make of the really intense reaction to this interview?

Joan: I mean, I don't know if you've paid attention to the temper or the tenor of conversation about politics in America right now generally, but I think it goes to show how increasingly chaotic and disorganized and stratified all levels of the political conversation are right now. People are raw. People are emotional. People are upset, rightfully so in many ways. And so there is very little online, politically speaking, that doesn't immediately incite a reaction from people in this election — and specifically, I think in this case, when they feel that their time is being sort of taken for a ride.

I think especially in an election with so many stakes, they're like, Call Her Daddy? Really? I think that a lot of it is also based on probably misogyny as well, from seasoned male reporters who think that women's interests are frivolous. This is something I've encountered much in my life writing about politics. They think like, why would you want to read a blog written by feminists to talk about politics when you can read my Politico newsletter that publishes at 4 a.m. every day on the dot? But I think there's a lot of things happening. I think it's a really interesting reaction.

Elamin: 100 per cent, I think there's a lot packed into the tone of that reaction. Alex Cooper has been kind of explicit about the podcast not being political before. She knows that she has listeners on both sides of the political spectrum…. Let's talk about how Alex has kind of maneuvered her way through what might be one of the key interviews of this election cycle.

Joan: I found it to be pretty cynical. And I don't mean that to say it's not smart or calculated or anything, but I found it sort of wanted to play both sides of the fence. She says, "I reached out [to Donald Trump]. He declined. But he's welcome to come on if he wants to talk about women." And also that it was a decision she sort of went back and forth with, right? Like, she's now changing the rules of her podcast. She's changing the terms that her audience have engaged with her on, and I think it's interesting how she sort of refuses to land on a side while still ultimately taking a side. I think it's a symptom of content like this where, you know, you start a podcast with your friend about sex stories that you both share with each other, and gossip in your area, and then suddenly you're interviewing the next, maybe, president of the United States of America, right? 

So I think that she has stepped into a new world. She's obviously learning the rules of that world. But I also think it's interesting how you can feel her playing to advertisers and subscribers at the same time like, "I did reach out to Trump, just in case anyone's going to get mad. He declined, but I'd still have him if he wants to." And I wonder if there is a world where Trump actually does take her up on that offer now, right? Like, we're running out of time in this election…. Or if she declines, then that sort of negates that whole cold open. So there's a deeply cynical part of me that wants him to call her on that bluff. But who knows, maybe he will.

Elamin: Joan said, both eyes awake.

You can listen to the full discussion from today's show on CBC Listen or on our podcast, Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud, available wherever you get your podcasts.

Interview with Joan Summers produced by Jane van Koeverden.