Has Drake and Kendrick's beef gone too far?

Eight weeks and 9 diss tracks in, Drake and Kendrick Lamar may have finally taken their rap beef too far.

The two men have hurled accusations at each other so grave that fans on either side are left not knowing what to think of either artist. While no proof has been offered as to whether, as alleged in these recent tracks, Kendrick abused his partner or that Drake is a pedophile, the question remains: did this feud have to get this nasty?

Today on Commotion, host Elamin Abdelmahmoud talks to rap culture critics Clarkisha Kent and Charles Holmes about the latest developments in the rap feud, and the way misogyny has been used not only within this feud but across rap music history.

We've included some highlights below, edited for length and clarity. For the full discussion, listen and follow the Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud podcast, on your favourite podcast player.

Elamin: Clarkisha, did you expect this feud to get this nasty from the start?

Clarkisha: I did, actually. So I'm an astro-head —

Elamin: Wow, you saw it coming?

Clarkisha: What do you need to know is Kendrick is a Gemini. So just to give you some context on what that means: we have Donald Trump, we have Kanye West, and we have Azealia Banks.

Elamin: Wow. You're like, they're a specific kind of messy. But this has lasted a long time, Clarkisha. Did you expect it would keep going this many weeks?

Clarkisha: Yes. Kendrick strikes me as very petty. I don't say that as an insult, but I feel like he's giving, "If you go low, I'm going to the bottom."

Elamin: Charles, what about you? Were you anticipating this level of nastiness?

Charles: Not originally, because these two men are way too wealthy to debase themselves in this way for what seems to be a beef about truly nothing, when you boil it down. But I think historically speaking, once a rapper goes to, "I'm bringing your family into this. I'm bringing wives and baby mothers," I was like, this is going nuclear. And that happened very fast.

Elamin: Clarkisha, the type of accusations that Kendrick and Drake have been making towards each other have been making so many people uncomfortable. What, to you, is the most alarming accusation that Kendrick made of Drake?

Clarkisha: Definitely the pedophile mention. On the song [Not Like Us], he was talking about mansion parties and funneling people — very dark considering, for example, what's happening with Diddy right now. So I was like, whoa.

Elamin: That's a serious accusation, also a very ugly one, that is kind of presented again without proof. Charles, what for you has been the most troubling thing that Drake has said about Kendrick?

Charles: I think the most troubling accusation that he has doubled down — honestly tripled down on, at this point — is that he alleges Kendrick has a history of assaulting women, and I think assaulting specifically his partner. He has gone on and on about basically Kendrick having to hire a crisis PR firm to cover up this alleged assault. And then he took it one step further, alleging that one of Kendrick's children with his partner is the child of his business partner, Dave Free. So that's how ugly that side of the beef has gone.

Elamin: I will say that, again, all of these accusations? Literally no proof. No one on either side is willing to present any particular shred of evidence for the thing that they're alleging.

Charles: No fact-checking here. There are no fact-checking departments in rap beef, unfortunately.

Elamin: It turns out you can just say anything that you want to say. Clarkisha, you've noted this hypocrisy that is kind of in this feud, right? Particularly because of how it implicates the women in both Drake and Kendrick's lives. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

Clarkisha: Yeah, I was side-eyeing both of them. With Kendrick, he's worked with Dr. Dre before, who we know beat up Dee Barnes, which is very upsetting — she's a hip-hop journalist, she was doing her job. Kendrick has also worked with Kodak Black, who pleaded guilty to a lesser charge [of first degree assault and battery in a 2016 sexual assault case]. And like Meg, Rihanna, Serena…

Elamin: With Megan Thee Stallion, Tory Lanez was recently convicted of shooting Megan Thee Stallion. In that conversation, Drake had kind of sided with Tory Lanez, and so it just felt a little bit rich, this particular thing that Drake is saying about Kendrick coming out of Drake, of all people.

Charles, there is this long history of — how do I put this? — of rappers using women in beef, particularly as ornaments or as props in the conversation. Can you give us some of the most prominent examples of how this has come up before?

Charles: I think the two ones that stick out to me, the first is just one of the most famous opening lines in hip-hop. It comes from Hit 'Em Up by Tupac. Tupac alleges that he slept with Faith [Evans], who had a long relationship with The Notorious B.I.G. There's Super Ugly, where essentially Jay-Z is — I honestly can't say the stuff that he was alleging that he did with one of the baby mothers of Nas. It's legendary at this point. His mom called Jay up and was like, "You need to apologize. This has gone too far."

Even the most recent: Quavo and Chris Brown are beefing right now, and they are lobbing accusations back and forth, essentially being like, which one of us has been worse to women, historically? So this is not something that's new.

You can listen to the full discussion from today's show on CBC Listen or on our podcast, Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud, available wherever you get your podcasts.

Panel produced by Ryan Chung and Ty Callender.