Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2016

The AIH Transcript for April 28, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Finding forgiveness. When the daughter of the latest Arkansas inmate to be executed could not afford to see her father one last time, our guest made it happen even though that inmate killed her father.

JD: The Order is out of order. When the society of nuns who once ran the controversial Magdalene Laundries take ownership of Dublin's maternity hospital, one doctor resigns from the hospital board in an act of defiance.

CO: A nation's detonation. As the death toll from anti-government protests in Venezuela continues to climb, I'll speak with Maria Corina Machado – one of the country's most prominent opposition figures.

JD: From enmity to amity. The filmmaker behind the new documentary My Enemy, My Brother tells a story of two former soldiers – one Iranian, one Iraqi – who were once sworn adversaries, but became friends after a breathtaking coincidence.

CO: Keeping the Balls rolling. For the seventh consecutive year, we will mark "Ed Balls Day" – the day British politician Ed Balls used his account, @EdBalls, to tweet just his own name. Which is "Ed Balls".

JD: And...you could hear a pin drop. And then 119 other pins. A New York man strikes a chord by recording a strike – and then eleven more – bowling a perfect game in less than a minute-and-a-half.
As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that guesses he finished with not a moment for spares.

Part 1: Execution relative, Venezuela protests, fast bowler

Execution relative

Guest: Kayla Greenwood

JEFF DOUGLAS: The state of Arkansas has executed a fourth prisoner.
As we've told you over the past week, Arkansas has been rushing to execute condemned men, before its supply of a lethal injection drug expires at the end of April.
Kenneth Williams died last night. He had confessed to killing four people.
Mr. Williams' daughter, Jasmine, wanted to see her father one last time before he died. So she set up a crowdfunding page to try to raise the money she needed to fly to Arkansas. But when the family of one of Mr. Williams' victims found out, they paid for the flight themselves.
Kenneth Williams killed Kayla Greenwood's father in 1999. We reached Ms. Greenwood in Willard, Missouri.

CAROL OFF: Kayla, we'll get to what happened last night in just a moment. I want to ask you what made you reach out to Jasmine Williams in the first place?

KAYLA GREENWOOD: I just really felt connected to her story and how she felt. And if I could ever see my dad one last time or have my children meet him, then I would want more than anything.

CO: And Jasmine Williams, you wanted to help her, see her father before he was executed. And you feel a kinship or association with that because you lost your father when her father killed your dad.

KG: Yeah.

CO: And how does how did Jasmine Williams respond when you reached out to her?

KG: We felt like we had known each other. It was very comfortable. But she was very shocked and just couldn't believe that we even wanted to talk to her or anything. And she just felt like you know, she needed to apologize for her father's actions, and it was good though. We cried and laughed and…

CO: Have you spoken to her since last night since her father was executed?

KG: We've been talking ever since the last time we saw each other. Just texting on and off and all that.

CO: How's she doing?

KG: She's doing good. He's being very positive and so brave through all this and she is she's a strong girl.

CO: She was crowdfunding in order to raise the money to get to see her father before he died, in order to fly there. What did your you and your family do to help her do that?

KG: My mom and my stepfather, that I consider my father because my dad, he raised me until I was, since I was 11. They were the ones that paid for it. They were the ones that drove all of us down there to go pick her up and take her to the prison. So they've made really all of this possible.

CO: And your mother, is she, you were five years old when your father was killed. And your mother was pregnant with twin boys at the time.

KG: Yes.

CO: How did she feel about this execution last night?

KG: She did not agree with it. She had believed that justice had already been served because he hadn't killed again and he she believed that he had changed. And you know, she felt like it was more of a revenge type thing instead of justice or closure.

CO: You went further than just trying to bring Jasmine Williams to see her father. You wrote a letter to the governor of Arkansas, who was the one who had demanded that these executions take place this month before the expiration of this drug. You wrote to the governor asking him to halt this execution even though this is the man who killed your father. You wanted his life to be spared. What arguments did you present to the governor?

KG: I thought that he could change people that had came in there because the correction officers and you know, his legal team, they all said that everybody that he came in contact with, he was trying to counsel and guide, and always you know trying to preach to them and really felt that he had changed and that he had given his life to Jesus. And I felt that by sparing his life, it could benefit to have him change people and connect with people that come in, so they don't go out worse than when they came in and maybe he can change lives.
I also wanted Jasmine to be able to pick up the phone and call her dad or come down and visit, because she had lost her mother when she was 12.

CO: You wanted Jasmine's children to know their grandfather in the way that your kids can't have a relationship with their grandfather/

KG: Yes.

CO: You know that there are, he was on death row, Kenneth Williams was on death row for first of all killing a man named Cecil Boren, and he killed that man. And after he’d escaped from prison, he had stolen the car from the man he killed, and then he killed your dad in a high speed chase as police pursued him. And the family of that other man wanted to see that execution take place. Did you have any contact with that family?

KG: No I haven’t had any contact with them ever.

CO: And what would you say to them if you did have contact?

KG: I would just say that I'm so sorry for their loss and I, you know, I truly understand what it feels like. And that just it hurts me to know that they have some closure or peace. His other had written an article I saw, and she said that after the execution, it didn’t bring her family closure. But they were glad that it was over with. And you know it just hurts me to know that they're living still so hurt. And if they would ever like to talk, you know, of course I would love to talk with them and… that’s what I would say.

CO: There were witnesses to the execution last night that said it was deeply disturbing because the drugs had a strange reaction on Mr. Williams. He was convulsing, coughing on the gurney. Governor Hutchinson though said that the long path to justice had ended with that. Do you think this has been justice?

KG: No. This was revenge, pure revenge.

CO: And what do you hope will come of your efforts to point that out and to try and reach out to the Williams family.

KG: Really just out of all this, I just hope that everybody involved gets peace and closure and I hope that somehow we can bring an end to the death penalty. Because through this process, it just, it makes me realize that it is revenge and not closure, justice, anything like that. And it's a hard day today because I'm still trying to process.

CO: Will you keep in touch with Jasmine?

KG: Yes. We've already started even as planning times when she’s going to come visit.

CO: Kayla, you are a remarkable young woman.

KG: Thank you. \

CO: And I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

KG: Thank you very much.

JD: Kayla Greenwood's father was killed by Kenneth Williams in 1999. Last night Mr. Williams was executed in Arkansas. And attorneys for Mr. Williams have called for an independent investigation into his execution because of witness descriptions of his death. Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson said today that he did not believe Mr. Williams suffered and sees no reason for such an investigation. We have posted more on this story on our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Venezuela protests

Guest: Maria Corina Machado

JD: People are dying on the streets of Venezuela.
Violent anti-government protests and violent counter-protests have raged for weeks now. More than two dozen people are dead. And there seems to be no end in sight.
Maria Corina Machado is a former elected member of Venezuela's National Assembly. She's also a leading opposition figure. We reached Ms. Machado in Caracas.

CO: Ms. Machado, what is happening to protesters on the streets of Venezuela?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well it seems these new waves of protests started one month ago. We have seen an increase in the level of repression throughout our country. Innocent people are peacefully demonstrating in the streets, mostly young students are being repressed brutally, by not only the National Guard but by the police, National Police using huge amounts of tear gas, pepper spray, even wooden bullets, but also ,and that has brought the highest level of violence, we've seen paramilitary groups which are called collectivos in Venezuela, that follow instructions from the regime, that have used real bullets. And so far we have 30 innocent Venezuelans killed.

CO: And now the government says that the protesters themselves have been violent. Is there truth to that?

MCM: Absolutely false. And even though Venezuela censorship is almost total, we have fortunately, the social media that has been able to report what's truly going on. We have seen hundreds of thousands of unarmed Venezuelans, protesting and demonstrating peacefully and demanding the same thing. We want justice. We want freedom. We want peace. And we certainly want the dictatorship of Nicolas Maduro to go away and permit us, enable Venezuela to transit to democracy in a peaceful and orderly manner.

CO: OK so, and how do you want to achieve that? I mean, the government and others are saying that you are seeking regime change, that you are trying to, the protests opposition are trying to overthrow the government. How do you intend to achieve what you say is to get rid of the government of President Maduro?

MCM: After many years of warning the world of the nature of these regimes, of its totalitarian nature, dinally the world calles things by its name. Maduro and its regime made a coup d’etat in Venezuela. They have eliminated our parliament which actually can now no longer operate. And as I say, not only they have destroyed economy and brought a horrible humanitarian crisis to our country, but have decided to silence every single voice.
So we need to put pressure in the streets peacefully and let us know that what we want is general elections. We want elections in order to have, to bring back democracy peace and prosperity to our country.

CO: But if you say that that President Maduro has taken over the institutions, that he is in control of those levers, why do you think it's possible to achieve what you want which is regime change? Why do you think that's possible through elections?

MCM: Because today more than 90 per cent of Venezuelan population desires and cries for a full change. You can see thousands of Venezuelans leaving our country, through our borders and even through to the sea, to the Caribbean islands, risking their lives because what we're seeing in Venezuela is hunger and poverty increasing as we speak.
So the pressure, the social pressure, is being felt even inside the regime structure. Just a couple of days ago, the national prosecutor who has been very loyal to the regime for the last 18 years, speaked out and said there had been a coup d’état and that the constitution is no longer followed. And this is something that is being increasingly happening inside the regime, [unintelligible] the armed forces and certainly in the streets.
What these children or young students say when they all go out, and even they are hurt and threatened, they keep coming back, is that they have no option because they have no future anymore in our country. So this is certainly an existential struggle and ethical struggle. And I believe we have the strength as well as the moral obligation to move along and to win.

CO: I want to talk a bit more about your obligations because there are, as you know, there are still supporters for the government, if not for Mr. Maduro, that certainly for the political movement that Hugo Chavez began. There are there are those who believe in that movement and are still part of that. They have been out in the streets having their own protests. They have been the victims of violence as well. How do you propose to include them? I mean this is what people are asking of the opposition. What are you doing in order to try and find common ground with all people in Venezuela who would like to see change?

MCM: Absolutely. If we want a true change, it has to be a national project that brings all of us together. Even though that still might follow Maduro and their ideas. But they have to understand that they have to turn into a democratic movement. We need to move along in which we have respect for each other, even though we have differences and that no longer a criminal state will be allowed in Venezuela.

CO: The government has accused you of being a fascist. It has detained other opposition leaders. How likely is it that you are next on their list?

MCM: I would say that anybody that speaks out today has at least been banned and prohibited from living in my country for over three years, have been accused of everything you can think of, as well as your colleagues, journalists, or the Catholic priests that say that this tragedies have to stop. And I realize I have a huge responsibility and I will keep on speaking out. And yes, that certainly it means that we are all under a growing threat.

CO: Ms. Machado, thank you.

MCM: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye-bye.

MCM: Bye.

JD: Maria Corina Machado is a former elected member of Venezuela's National Assembly. Also she is a leading opposition figure and a key part of the anti-government protest. We reached her in Caracas.

[Music]

Dateline: New Jersey florist

JD: Dateline: Pequannock Township, New Jersey.

[Music]

JD: To run a successful business, you have to keep your overhead low, but you still have to pay for your inventory. Unless, of course, you can somehow find a way to stock your shelves without spending a dime. Which, of course, is impossible...or is it?
Yes, it is. It really, really is. I want to make that as clear as possible. Because if you think you've come up with some ingenious plan, you're probably actually making a grave error, which will have grave consequences. Especially if actual graves are involved.
For months, the First Reformed Church Cemetery in Pequannock Township had been reporting thefts to police.
Plants, flowers, and other tributes to deceased loved ones were going missing. Eventually, they decided to set up a ghoulish sting: they set out some new plants, set up surveillance cameras , and then they sat and waited.
Two days later, the cemetery people called the police again. The plants were gone. And when the detectives watched the surveillance footage, they saw someone they recognized: Lynda Wingate. A former police dispatcher – who now runs a flower shop.
Now, Ms. Wingate has been charged with "theft of moveable property." She has not been convicted of anything but we do know the video shows her pulling up in a silver minivan at night, getting out, holding a flashlight, gathering up the plants, loading them into the minivan and driving away.
All of which kind of strongly suggests that she was taking the plants left by grieving family members back to her flower shop and selling them. Having possibly sold them to the grieving family members the first time.
So please, please do not follow Ms. Wingate's alleged example. If you're a florist – or a human being with empathy – never try to save money by stealing flowers from a cemetery. Because it's always possible to make other arrangements.

[Music]

Fast bowler

Guest: Ben Ketola

JD: Officially, it's not really a record. Unofficially, it's really awesome.
Ben Ketola of Cortland, New York bowled 12 strikes, consecutively – a perfect game – in eighty-six-point-nine seconds. Of course, it is pertinent that he works at a bowling alley in his hometown. That just helped him get the ball rolling.
We reached Ben Ketola in Cortland, New York.

CO: Ben, what inspired you to try to bowl 12 strikes in less than two minutes.

Ben Ketola: There was a video done by a professional bowler named Tom Dougherty. He did the same thing a few years back. When I saw him do it, I thought it looked like a lot of fun to try.

CO: OK, so set the scene for us when you pulled this off.

BK: So I tried it a few times. Now that I work at a bowling alley, I had access all the games and every time I tried it, I was getting quite a few strikes. Never all 12 but I was getting quite a few strikes. And the manager of the bowling alley, John Bishop was watching me do it. And the manager at the bowling alley, John Bishop, was watching me do it, and he goes, "Dude, we've got to record you doing this and make a challenge out of it. Like, what's the greatest amount of strikes you can get in a small time frame out of twelve shots?" You know, I wasn’t planning “Hey I’m going to get 300 doing this.”
So we’re getting ready to close up for the night and he goes hey, go grab your bowling stuff out of the car and let’s do that video again.
I go “OK”, and I got everything set up in a way that made sense.
So I just lined-up the bowling balls and started throwing strike after strike after strike ... and after I threw the seventh one, it got in my head, I was like, "I might actually clear all twelve lanes here." And when I let go of that last ball, I knew it was great as soon as I let go of it, and you know, I freaked out when I let go of it, when it struck. I was very overwhelmed with excitement.

CO: But now in the video it's not like you're even stopping to see what happens. You have to keep going. So do you know when you actually, when you released the ball, are you pretty confident that that's a strike?

BK: There were two balls that I questioned quite a bit. My fourth one was one of the only ones throughout the first 10 that I actually was like watching it go the whole way down the lane because I let go of that one and I was like I don't know about that shot. But I got lucky and I carried a light hit on that one. The 11th one I didn't rev it up as much as I wanted to and I caught another light strike on that shot. But other than those two shots, everyone and I let go of it I knew it was in a strike.

CO: So how much luck do you think went into this and how much skill?

BK: Well I mean a great bowler once told me the game of bowling is 90 percent luck. And then the other 90 percent is physical.

CO: It sounds like a line from The Big Lebowski.

BK: Yeah. You know, there’s a lot of luck involved in bowling a perfect game any time. Because you know honestly, throwing 12 good shots without getting a bad break to leave a pin standing on one of them is is lucky. You could throw the ball dead perfect 12 times and you should still feel lucky that they all struck. You know? And not only did I not throw that perfect all 12 times, I had two shots that I kind of got away with. So yeah, obviously there's luck involved every time you set foot on a bowling land.

CO: But you have in the video, you have something quite extraordinary for people will see if they watch it. You have a two handed throw.

BK: Yes.

CO: What's going on there? Why is that?

BK: I started bowling it a little later age in life. I started on a little bit after my grandpa passed away because it was something that he always loved to do and I wanted to do something in memory of him so I started bowling and I really fell in love with the game. And the first year I bowled, I bowled one handed. I did pretty well, I averaged about 170 my first ever even bowling. Right before my second year of bowling, I crashed my dirt bike, and basically, when I fell, I landed on my thumb and it took about six months for it to heal so I could actually grip the ball again. So I said “OK I'm going to bowl without my thumb”. Well doing it with just one hand, it's hard to stabilize the ball from the backswing and actually get any accuracy. So what I did is I use my other hand to carry the ball to the backswing. But then when I get to the bottom of the swing it's actually just my right hand actually throwing the ball.

CO: Wow. It looks quite extraordinary.

BK: Definitely a difficult technique to match.

CO: Now, are you getting much response from the video?

BK: Oh yes. I mean I've been getting calls about doing this and that, left and right, and it’s pretty cool. I’ve been getting a lot of attention for it. And you know what, the 15 minutes of fame, it's fun.

CO: There is no official speed category in the United States Bowling Congress record books as we've learned. But is there any way to get officially recognized that you did 12 strikes in less than 90 seconds?

BK: Well there is a website. I don't know much about the website but they reached out to me today and it's a website called recordsetter.com. And they said that since Guinness wouldn't officially recognize this because I didn't have enough eye witnesses in the building, they reached out to me and they said we want to officially recognize your record on our website. If you send us a copy of the video so we can authenticate us, we're going to officially recognize your record.

CO: OK so that's the credit you'll get then.

BK: Yes.

CO: OK. Well what are you going to do next?

BK: Well you know, I'm thinking that I'm going to try to make a little series of bowling videos. Not necessarily trying this again but doing some trick shots, just showcasing them all bowling skills and see if I can keep getting some views out of them.

CO: Well I hope your hope your luck continues then.

BK: Thank you.

CO: Thanks Ben. Take care.

BK: You too.

CO: Bye-bye.

JD: Ben Ketola of Cortland, New York recently bowled 12 strikes, consecutively, in less than ninety seconds. You can find more on this story, including the video of Ben's speed bowling feat – that's at cbc.ca/aih.

Part 2: Irish hospital, moon rock widow

Doctor quits Irish hospital

Guest: Peter Boylan

JEFF DOUGLAS: The largest maternity hospital in Ireland is getting new ownership and some in Dublin think the incoming landlords could not be more inappropriate. Those landlords will be the Sisters of Charity. That is the religious order that helped run the notorious Magdalene Laundries for Unwed Mothers. The decision has sparked protests it has sparked a petition with 100,000 signatures. And in a defiant move, Dr. Peter Boylan, one of Ireland's most revered obstetricians just resigned from his position on the maternity hospital's board.
We reached Dr. Boylan in Dublin.

CAROL OFF: Dr. Boylan, why do you feel that these nuns should not be the owners of the maternity hospital?

PETER BOYLAN: Because it creates a lot of problems from an ethical point of view. Any hospital that is built on land owned by the Catholic Church has to abide by Catholic ethos and teaching and that creates tremendous ethical problems, particularly in the area of maternity care. Things like IVF, sterilization, abortion and so on.

CO: It's not just the fact that it was be a Catholic organization, in particular it's this an organization called the Sisters of Charity. What in particular is problematic about them being in charge of this hospital?

PB: Well it's not them in particular, as opposed to any other Catholic organization. It's just a Catholic organization of itself is the issue because they have a requirement to adhere to Catholic teaching. If a hospital is built on land owned by the Catholic Church. And the plan for this hospital is that it would be owned 100 percent by the Sisters of Charity, the company tasked with running the hospital would be on 100 percent by the religious Sisters of Charity. So that's really the problem.

CO: There has been a great reaction in Ireland to the Sisters of Charity taking on this role. They have a very controversial history in Ireland can you tell us a bit about what we know of what they have done in the past?

PB: The Sisters of Charity in particular, their problem was that they ran laundries in Ireland, where girls who are single were sent when they were pregnant. They were treated very badly. They called them Magdalene laundries after Mary Magdalene.

CO: There have been a number of reports about what happened in Ireland to the young women the ones who were in the Magdalene Laundries where the Sisters of Charity were in charge there. There was a report on that. The Ryan Report, of [unintelligible] exposé into the state-funded church on institutions and the abuse that happened to children and young women in those. And given that history, why do you think the Irish government would be willing to see a Catholic organization be in charge of the National Maternity Hospital in Dublin?

PB: Well that is kind of a mystery. The hospital will cost about 300 million euro. So the Irish state are talking at the moment about divesting ownership of Catholic-run hospitals and schools back into ownership by the state. But at the same time, they're willing to spend 300 million on a new national maternity hospital and effectively gift it to any religious organization which has a very checkered history, to be kind, in relation to the care of children and all the young women who have become pregnant.
I think that the religious sisters in the church are very tough negotiators. They have a very long term view. They tend to think in, you know 50 or 100 years, or longer.
So I think that they probably feel that they can persist in their in their view, that they should own the hospital 100 percent, and hopefully the controversy will die down and they will be able to own the hospital.

CO: It's also of note that the Sisters of Charity never have actually acknowledged that they did the things that have been revealed in these reports. They have paid out very little of the compensation to the victims of the Magdalene Laundries and the other institutions. And they continue to dispute their role in that to a great degree. Is that part of the reason why people in Ireland are angry about this decision?

PB: It is yes. It has inflamed opinion in the public and just fed into the outrage among the public that this should be happening. But it really doesn't matter whether they paid a million or a hundred million. It's still wrong to give the hospital worth 300 million to the religious Sisters of Charity.

CO: The government says though that though the nuns, the Sisters of Charity will have no influence on medical decisions made at the hospital. What do you say to that?

PB: Well I think that's wishful thinking. Any any hospital that is built on land owned by the Catholic Church has to adhere to Catholic teaching in matters of ethics and so on. And medical procedures even though the nuns won't have an active role in the day to day running of the hospital, by the very fact that they will own the land, on the hospital itself, and own the company that's vested to run the hospital on a day-to-day basis, makes it impossible that there should not be ethical conflict. With you know a lot of the day to day activities in a modern maternity services are anathema to Catholic teaching, in this regard. And so it's kind of delusional to think that you know that you can have a Catholic Church, hospital that will be happy to allow IVF abortion, sterilization et cetera. There's no hospital around the world that does these things that's owned by the Catholic Church. So to think that Ireland is going to be unique and have a hospital owned by a religious order where these things are going to be allowed is really I think to stretch your imagination to breaking point.

CO: As a doctor you retired from the hospital last year and yesterday you resigned from the hospital board. What has the hospital lost with your resignation, with your voice no longer at those board meetings? Was that really the right decision to make?

PB: I couldn't possibly remain part of a board which was so blind to the consequences of the actions they're taking, and so deaf to the concerns of the public. And women in particular in Ireland about what has happened. So I felt that I was, had a much better chance of being able to speak freely if I wasn't a member of the board anymore. So that's why I resigned.

CO: But don't those women and don't those hospital staff, don't they need you on that board to be contributing that voice if the Sisters of Charity are able to influence the course of...

PB: Unfortunately there's no toleration for an alternative point of view on that board. So I'm much better to be outside the board speaking, because inside the board speaking it wasn't making any difference.

CO: Dr. Boylan, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

PB: Thank you very much.

JD: Dr. Peter Boylan is a retired obstetrician. He was a board member of the National Maternity Hospital in Dublin until yesterday when he resigned from that position in protest. We reached Dr. Boylan in Dublin. And you can find more on this story on our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

High school death

Serena McKay was supposed to be celebrating her graduation the share. Instead the Manitoba first nations community of Sagkeeng is mourning her death.
Two girls aged 16 and 17 have been charged with the 19 year old's murder. And as we told you earlier this week, a video was posted on Facebook allegedly showing the attack that killed Ms. McKay.
Last night, a vigil was held in Sagkeeng. Alma Kakikepinace was there. She found Serena Mckay's body last Sunday. She spoke to CBC Manitoba about that experience.

SOUNDCLIP

ALMA KAKIKEPINACE: I've had some very very hard days since Sunday, and I was the one that called the RCMP and took them to this young woman. Her body was lying there. It's been very very very hard. I've had loving support from friends and my adopted brother and his partner. The community has rallied together on this. The one thing this death did do was to trigger the healing that Sagkeeng actually needs from the youth themselves.
As older people that we've left that walk, and some young people are thinking "Oh it's so cool, I'm going to drink one day. I'm going to do drugs one day." The house where her body was found is, it's common knowledge in the reserve that that house has something to do with drugs. Somebody had gone there for a fix or something, and being in that, where they are, they weren't safe to approach the police. They won't do it but someone had to.
I barely slept. I finally had a meal yesterday. I mean a meal I could taste. This is not an easy thing to see. I can never un-see it but if I can do one thing good is to speak about that young lady and say her, she had her life ahead of her and nobody deserves to die the way she... the way that things happen for her.

That was Alma Kakikepinace speaking to CBC Manitoba last night. Last Sunday she found the body of 19 year old Serena McKay. Two teenagers have been charged in Ms. McKay's death.

[Music]

Moon rock widow

Guest: Johnn Davis

JD: Nice try NASA. Well actually nice is not the word is it? A United States appeals court has shown very little patience for the space agency's bid to have a California widow's case against it, thrown out of court. The widow's name is Joann Davis. Her late husband Robert worked as an engineer on the Apollo missions. And Ms. Davis is now suing NASA for unlawful detention after a saga that began when she tried to sell a moon rock that Robert had been given as a thank you for his work. We reached Joann Davis in Lake Elsinore, California.

CO: Ms. Davis, first of all can you describe the paperweight that caused you so much trouble?

JOANN DAVIS: There's two of them of course, and it's a like a globe about the size of a coffee cup. And where exactly is the moon rock? It's inside, sealed, inside this thick glass globe.

CO: And why did you want to sell it, or sell them?

DAVIS: After Robert passed away, my son decided to bring out all of this because my son had been having numerous surgeries. I really kind of felt like why not try to make life a little easier for quite a few family members, including myself.

CO: So you had a lot of burdens on you when you decided to sell the paperweights. Why did you contact NASA? What were you hoping they could do?

DAVIS: Well because I felt, do they want it back? Do they want to buy it? You know that was the only thing. I wasn't going to go into any illegal activities of any sort. Cause I really didn't know that much about it. I was just inquiring and seeing whether or not they would want them back, because 15 years after Apollo at that point, I believe that NASA recognized, you know we really should not have been giving these things out. We're going to consider them a national treasure.

CO: So you met with someone named Jeff. Who was Jeff? Who did you think Jeff was when you met him?

DAVIS: He was representing NASA in my opinion. We had e-mails and discussions for nine days, and he set up the appointment in Lake Elsinore for a consultation. But I'm aware now that he was just an informant of some sort that they had asked to be the contact between NASA and myself. And when we actually met at the restaurant, everything happened within a minute, maybe a minute and a half, and Jeff was gone.

CO: Let's just describe what happened, because it's, I've read it in court documents, it's quite even in strict legal language, describing what happened that minute and a half in the restaurant is absolutely extraordinary. Can you just tell us what they did to you?

DAVIS: He said "Can I look at the object?" And I put it on the table, and it was like a split second when an arm came over from behind me and grabbed my purse with one of his arms and my shoulder with his other one as I tried to turn to see who was grabbing me. I saw my husband being pulled out of the booth and that's when I saw everyone that was involved in this incident, in flap jackets and all this kind of stuff.
Now there had been no introduction, no I.D., no agent saying "Ms. Davis we're here. Can we escort you out? We need to talk to you." There was nothing except this earthquake that happened–

CO: And how many agents or officers were involved in this takedown?

DAVIS: There were three NASA agents and three Riverside deputy sheriffs.

CO: How long did they did for how long did they detain you after they got you out?

DAVIS: At least two hours in the parking lot. A minimum of two hours.

CO: I understand it was quite humiliating for you.

DAVIS: Yes. Very humiliating. And so I actually stood there and I would say, within an hour I was really starting to feel my discomfort. I mean the swelling on my left side, I noticed my arm getting extremely bruised, my shoulder felt not dislocated, but like oh gee, he really had a hold of me out there.

CO: This is awful stuff. And in the court documents they indicate that they left you there, you had lost control of your bladder at some point and they were indifferent to the state you were in. Is that right?

DAVIS: Completely.

CO: The development now is that they the judge ,the courts have decided that you can sue these agents for what they did to you. And so how, is that helping at all? Does that satisfy any of the humiliation and what you suffered in this incident?

DAVIS: I do not plan to let it go, but it is going to be up to Peter as to how far we really go with this.

CO: Peter's your husband is he?

DAVIS: No, my lawyer.

CO: So in any event you are going to pursue this in the court. And and they have given you leave to sue the agents for what they did, which is a development. And so what is your next day in court?

DAVIS: It just really is hard to say when this will actually happen, except that I know that the appeal is in the process at this point, with whatever documents that you know, Peter needs to, Mr. Shooter has to go forward with.

CO: That's your lawyer.Well it's an extraordinary story, Ms. Davis. And I'm glad you could tell us about it. I'm so sorry all this happened to you, but thank you for speaking with us.

DAVIS: You're more than welcome. Thank you.

JD: We reached Joan Davis in Lake Elsinore California. When she tried to sell the moon rock her husband was given as a thank you for his work at NASA, NASA came after her. She is now suing NASA.

Part 3: Feature interview: "My Brother, My Enemy" documentary director

Feature interview: My Brother, My Enemy documentary director

Guest: Ann Shin

JEFF DOUGLAS: The war between Iran and Iraq lasted a very long eight years. By the time it ended, in 1988, more than a million were dead.
Zahed Haftlang and Najah Aboud both fought in that war. They fought as enemies. More than twenty years later, the two met at a support group for victims of torture in Vancouver. And they soon realized their shared history runs deeper than just their time served in opposing armies.
Zahed and Najah's surprising friendship is the subject of a new documentary, premiering tomorrow at Hot Docs Film Festival in Toronto. The film is called My Enemy, My Brother. Ann Shin directed that film, and she joined us in the As It Happens studio.

CAROL OFF: Ann Shin, welcome to As It Happens.

ANN SHIN: Thanks for having me on Carol.

CO: This is extraordinary story and we will reveal it slowly because I think that's the power of it, is because it was revealed slowly to you and to and to them. But how did you come to know these two men and about their amazing friendship?

AS: Well I first heard about it through my friend Greg Kelley who helms Ideas and he told me about this amazing story and he said “You should do a film documentary about it.” And I thought, well it sounds amazing but I'm not sure I can really treat it as a doc. But I happened to be going to Vancouver where I learnt that that's where Nahjah and Zahed live.
And I looked them up and I just cold called them like any old journalist and they were very receptive they said they'd happily meet me. So I met them and I we were sitting down to cups of mint tea. And slowly they told me their story of the past couple of decades of their lives. And it was about a three and a half hour first meeting and I was in tears at the end of it. And I thought “Oh my goodness. I have to follow these men. I really need to tell their story.”

CO: And Zahed and Nahjah had met before, but they meet in Vancouver at the Association for Survivors of Torture, and I want to just play a clip from early on in the documentary. This is the Iranian man, Zahed talking.

SOUNDCLIP

ZAHED HAFTLANG: Basically I lost everything during the war. Everything. When I'm involved of war, war is monster, a cancer. It penetrated to all my bones. It make me crazy. Emotionally, basically I was a broken.

CO: That’s Zahed talking about his experiences in the Iran-Iraq War in the early 1980s. And how old was he when he got into the army?

AS: He was only 13. The Ayatollah Khomeini had started a Basiji regiment with boys, basically, and old men because they were so short of manpower. And so Zahed was a child soldier, one of over 100,000 child soldiers in that war.

CO: And what he describes it as a monster, a cancer. What was it like for him, as, just in the war anyway. It was a brutal war, the Iran-Iraq War. And he was a child.

AS: Yes it was as you know the most brutal war of the latter half of the 20th century. He had first thought that they were just going to go to the front and then come back home and have dinner and you know, he was a boy. He didn't know what war was. And then he saw men and boys his age killed, maimed, dismembered, and it was completely shocking. But at that point he couldn't leave. So he was in the war for years and he was also a prisoner of war and that scarred him for life. He has PTSD.

CO: And that's why he had, when he is now living in Canada, years later, 25 years later, he is going to this survivors of torture place where he's hoping to get some help. And then he meets somebody there. So he meets Nahjah. Can you tell us who Nahjah is.

AS: Nahjah is an Iraqi, former Iraqi citizen, Iraqi-Canadian now. And he was a young man then too, a 19 year old soldier, 19 or 20. And he had a wife and a son who he left behind when he went to the frontlines.

CO: And what were his experiences in the war?

AS: Nahjah was in battle, in the battle of Khorramshahr. And he was with his unit and they were under attack. So Khorramshahr was originally under Iranian control, it was Iranian. And they were putting forward an offensive to take back that key port. And all, in the in the battle of Khorramshahr, all his fellow soldiers were killed and he was maimed and injured, bleeding in a bunker, when you know Zahed and his troops started to come in to basically kill whoever was left alive.

CO: And this is, we should just give people a sense of battle of Khorramshahr was a crucial battle within the Iran-Iraq war. Quite early on, it determined much of what happened for the rest of the war. But it was a brutal battle. It was, it was ugly. It must have scarred anyone who had been in it, especially these young men.
And at that point, Nahjah, the Iraqi man, he's… how old is he at this point?

AS: He was about 19 or 20 years old, Nahjah was.

CO: So they're both very young men, of course. And Zahed is 13. I just want to I want to play a clip here to set up what Nahjah describes about being under fire in the battle of Khorramshahr.

SOUNDCLIP

NAHJAH ABOUD: The biggest battle in this war, in Khorramshahr, during the battle, our unit came under fire. We can’t see, we can’t hear. We can’t move around us everywhere, big bomb, big fire. I pray to god, from the bunker I can’t… I couldn’t move from anywhere. In the end of the life.

CO: And that’s Nahjah talking about the battle of Khorramshahr. And so, tell us, he quite badly wounded at that point.

AS: Yes. He couldn't move. He had shrapnel in his abdomen and all throughout his body and all his other compatriots were all killed in the bunker.

CO: And it was an unwritten policy for the Iranians, for both sides, to not take very many prisoners of war. They killed them.

AS: Yes.

CO: How does Zahed handle that order?

AS: Well as I said, Zahed, going through the bunkers, again he's just a 13 year old boy at the time–

CO: Zahed being the being the Iranian–

AS: Zahed the Iranian soldier had to go through the bunker, and he was going past all these corpses, dead men and he happened to see one person move and he knelt down. At first he was afraid because he was afraid that the enemy soldier would pull a grenade or something commit suicide and kill him as well. But he overcame that fear to approach him on the ground and as he was checking the injured soldier, he noticed the Qur'an and a photo in his breast pocket. And it was a photo of the man's wife and son. And when he saw that, a little photo of a baby boy, he couldn't bring himself to kill this enemy soldier.

CO: And what does Zahed do then with that enemy soldier?

AS: Zahed, he risked his own life to say that enemy soldier. He was under strict orders to kill whoever was alive. But instead, he actually moved corpses to try and hide this body. And he went back to the military hospital, the barracks hospital, and got some supplies to try and help keep Nahjah alive. So he risked his own life, countering you know his orders, to keep this enemy soldier alive. And he did that for three days.

CO: It's extraordinary. I mean the risk to his own life, and to have protected an Iraqi in the midst of this horrible battle in this war is just remarkable.

AS: It really is. Because Zahed would have been killed or imprisoned as a traitor. And he took that risk.

CO: And then that man went into, he became a prisoner of war.

AS: Yes. So after several days there was a truce declared because the Iranian forces had overtaken Khorramshahr. And that's when the battle ceased, the fire ceased and then they took prisoners.

CO: So this man went off to, he was a prisoner of war. What happened to him? Where did he go?

AS: He ended up being taken prisoner of war into a prison in northern Iran, and he was kept there for 17 years. That's eight years past the end of the Iran-Iraq war. They didn't know the light of day. They didn't know that the war had ended. They didn't have any news of the outside world.

CO: But this man was alive because of this the Iranians soldier, this boy, Zahed had seen him, saved him and then he went on to prison. Did Zahed, did he know what happened to him? Did he have any further contact with him over there?

AS: Zahed didn't know what happened to that soldier because he himself ironically was captured and became a prisoner of war on the other side as well. He was kept for almost two years and then released and then he started to try, and after you know, after the war he tried to start a civilian life, but he was so traumatized from his experiences as a child soldier, he couldn't you couldn't hold on a job, he couldn't really integrate into the Iranian society.

CO: He didn't know that the men he had saved was actually the other man then he would meet.

AS: Zahed had no idea that the enemy soldier was still alive, or that he would ever set eyes on him again. It was a moment during the war. I mean, it was several days and it was a brave act, but there was so many other moments and so many scarring moments in in the war that he didn't know what happened to that fellow.

CO: Tell us what happened when they met?

AS: Nahjah came to Canada as a refugee and was helping his father who lived in Canada. He was taking him to Vancouver Association for Survivors of Torture for counseling. Zahed, in the meantime, had been trying to make a living, he became a merchant marine, and in the end he jumped ship and he applied for refugee status in Canada as well.
And he was suicidal, he was so depressed, and so damaged from the war. The roommates he had at the halfway house in Vancouver said “You should go to this counseling center. They help people like you.” So Zahed went to the Vancouver Association of Survivors of Torture and was sitting there when another man came in and they started chatting, and they said “Well are you here for the same reason I am?” You know. “Yeah I was, I was in the war, you too?” And originally they thought that they were on the same side of the war. They thought they were both Iraqi or you know Zahed thought the other fellow was Iranian. But the conversation ensued and they began to realize no, they were Iraqi and Iranian. They were formerly enemies. But not only that, they were in the same battle at the same time.

CO: The battle of Khorramshahr.

AS: Yes.

CO: They started talking about what happened during the war and Nahjah said, you know, I was really, I was I would have died in that battle if it hadn't been for this young soldier. You know, he was so young he didn't have a beard yet and he saved my life.
And Zahe, his eyes, like he was shocked he was like “I know this story. You, do you have stitches along your belly. Your teeth, were they knocked out? Do you have stitches at the back of your head?” And he started naming all of Nahjah’s wounds. And Nahjah said, “How do you know with this about this? Did you hear about this from my brother? Were you talking to my brother?” And Zahed said “I don't know you, I don't know your brother but I'm telling you I saved a soldier during the war and he had those stitches.”

CO: I'm the young man who saved you.

AS: Yeah.

CO: Let's play the clip of this encounter.

SOUNDCLIP

ZH: I said, “Do you remember, you was show me the picture inside the Qur'an?” And I said “On the right arms, you have a mark. Top of your belly button. You have a bunch of stitches. How did you know? Are you OK? He started to shake. Me, me, me! He started to shout. We make noise, we make noise and this [unintelligible].

NA: The story I tell you about the soldier. He is in Canada. Now I meet him.

CO: It’s just an extraordinary moment.

AS: Yeah, they were shouting and yelling and hugging and the staff at the Vancouver Association for Survivors of Torture, they thought that they were fighting at first. So they were worried but then they realized they were hugging.

CO: You are listening to As It Happens and I'm speaking with film director Ann Shin about her new documentary My Enemy, My Brother s being screened at the Hot Docs festival. And they began to put the pieces together of what had happened. What was it like for Zahed to learn all the things that had happened to this man that he had saved?

AS: Zahed was at the lowest point in his life. He had just attempted suicide. And when he met Nahjah, like this soldier who he had saved back then, he thought “Oh my goodness this is happening for some reason. He's alive and he's made a living here and I'm meeting him today at this point in my life for a reason.” He was lifted out of his sense of despair and not only was he left out of his despair, but Najah helped him. And he, you know, in the days going forward, he tried to help Zahed get back on track, to find work. And yeah Zahed started to take up a life in Canada.

CO: And what was Nahjah’s state of mind at this point.

AS: Nahjah was completely, Nahjah was shocked too. He had never imagined seeing this young soldier again. And Nahjah had lost as his wife and son, he couldn't he couldn't find them, but also he had suffered years of torture and deprivation. You know, 17 years. He was able to find work in Canada but he could never establish relationships, he couldn't, he couldn't move forward with his life. So he was trapped in a sense as the wound the wounded soldier that he was. And seeing Zahed helped him see that life beyond that time in his life was possible, that he should and could move on.

CO: The story takes a turn here because these two men now have bonded, they’re friends. They're revealing all of their past suffering and the pain, but Nahjah has a big unresolved issue. A big unresolved problem in his life. And it relates to that photograph that he showed to Zahed, that photo he had in the Qur'an, of a woman and her child, a wife and son Nahjah has lost. They go looking for, well Nahjah goes looking and he gets help from Zahed. What happens there?

AS: Nahjah had had originally gone looking for his wife and son when he was released, 17 years after he had been taken prisoner of war. And he couldn't find them at that time. And then he came as a refugee to Canada. And when he met Zahed, he felt a new sense of hope. He thought if I can meet this person again in my life, maybe I can find my wife and son. They were never declared dead. He could never find any records. So he got his Canadian citizenship and passport. And with that, with that paper in hand, he went back to Iraq to look for them.
It was like searching for a haystack though, a needle in a haystack, because there were so many displacement camps. There's been conflict in Iraq for the past several decades. People have been displaced for year after year. And so there were displacement camps he went to, there were orphanages he went to. It was very very hard to find any traces of his missing wife and son.
He went back to a neighborhood where she used to live and there was an old man with coke bottle glasses. And he said “Oh yes her, I remember her. Her mom, she had diabetes and was blind. And Nahjah said “Yes that's her. What happened?” And he said “Well in the bomb, in the shelling, they moved. Everybody left. But some people came back. They didn't come back.” There were all these traces he found.

CO: But you know, in the course of his search, what you do with your film is that you show through him the state of affairs in Iraq right now after decades of war. This is it completely. He's in Basra. It's completely shattered. It's, the infrastructure is broken, it's filthy. It was a beautiful city. And what he's coming back to see is, he has a memory of what his childhood home was like. He's trying to reconstruct some beautiful moment from the past.

AS: Yes.

CO: And he thinks that the key is to be here and to find these people. But the same time, he's having to see what's become of his country. How shocking was that even for you to be seeing the State of Iraq?

AS: It was shocking to follow him on the journey. I had like many people an image in my head of what Iraq is, and you know, it's always a country in turmoil. But actually until the 80s, I mean Basra was the Venice of the Middle East. People would go there… there were palm trees and beaches. People went there for their vacations. But it is, like buildings are in half ruined, state of ruin and that highway of death, the famous highway with all the cars and military vehicles that had been abandoned, is just south of there. It was really sad to see him going through neighborhoods that were still in disrepair without proper infrastructure. They don't even have a postal system. You can't mail letters. People have to use DHL Express of they want to send anything.
It was really sad to see how all the decades of conflict from many different you know interests and countries, who have been involved in that, the years of conflict in Iraq. It was sad to see the effect it has had on their cities and their people.

CO: And you see when he goes looking, he goes to orphanages, he goes he goes to different places where they might be. And what you see there is all the children, all the orphans, all the boys who have lost their mothers and their fathers, who have lost their homes. It's astonishing, as to see the effect of what those decades of war did to Iraq. And yet, you knew, you lace it with clips from people from world leaders from, mostly from the United States, justifying the wars they repeatedly had in that country after the Iraq-Iran war. I want t just go just say what happened to Zahed, because he couldn't go back to Iran. Why is that?

AS: Zahed has been very vocal about being against the Iran-Iraq war but also just war in general. He was so damaged by war that he wants people to, you know, that's his message. He’s very much against war and he's worried, with good reason, about being possibly incarcerated if he went back to Iran even though he's a Canadian citizen now, because there have been several Iranian-Canadians who've been detained when they were just visiting Iran. And so he had learnt that his father had brain cancer, and he had had a very fractious relationship with his father. That was partly why he ran away from home to join the army in the first place. When he realized that his father was dying, he wanted to make amends and just have one final reconciliation. But it was very difficult to consider how to arrange that because he couldn't go back into Iran.
They had to look into a set, you know, third countries and such. And then his father was too ill to travel. So it was very difficult, very difficult endeavor.

CO: Zahed never gets to see his father. Nahjah, does he ever get to see his wife and son?

AS: I'm not going to reveal that, but I'm going to say Nahjah and Zahed are both, in some ways, they were like The Lost Boys of this war. And during the journey, they kind of come to find some closure and some redemption. But Nahjah as you mentioned earlier in our chat, he met so many orphans and there are so many lost boys in Iraq, and lost girls as well. And it was very moving to see how he connected with them. He said you know, I see these boys as my son. You know he meets he meets a boy in the orphanage. He says “What happened to your parents?” and his the boy says “They died”, and he says, “Well I'm just like you. I lost my wife and son in the war and I'm trying to find them.”

CO: What did the friendship, because they have these two men lost so much, but they're living in Vancouver together. What does their friendship mean to them?

AS: I think there's something that bonds veterans. Only they know that the horror, they only know, they know that they each understand what they've been through. And that kind of understanding and empathy is profoundly moving, particularly with men who are formally enemies. And so for them to be helping each other, they're very helpful with one another in their lives today. And I think that, you know, they're trying to have the kind of life that Canada can provide for people escaping that kind of atrocity. They're trying to have a regular life here. And it helps that they can lean on each other to try and you know, put the ghosts of the past to rest.

CO: Do you think they can?

AS: You know, I’ve seen, I've been filming with them for five years and I think they've been doing so more and more.

CO: They will both be in Toronto tomorrow to see this film. Was that going to be like for them?

AS: I think they're going to be, I'm very excited that they're going to be here for the HotDocs premiere because their stories moved me so much as a filmmaker, I think it'll be really, you know, a kind of affirmation for them to see how audiences respond to their story. I think it will it will be a really wonderful moment for them.

CO: And they must understand that there was some hand moving when they met on that battlefield that brought all of this together for them.

AS: Yes. Yes. It's a story that speaks to all of us. It's such an incredible story that I think they understand that what has inspired them to keep living and moving on is also inspiring all the audiences who hear about this story.

CO: I don't know if you set out to make an anti-war film, but you have. I mean what Zahed says “War is a monster. War is a cancer”, that nothing can show you more clearly what was does to people than what happens in this film.

AS: For sure. It's also a film with two Muslim men as the heroes. And that's something that was very important to me too. We rarely hear positive stories about Muslim men and this story is definitely a beacon to us all.

CO: Ann, I love the film. I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

AS: Thank you Carol.

JD: That was Ann Shin, the director of the new documentary film My Enemy My Brother. The film premieres tomorrow at the Hot Docs film festival in Toronto.

[Music]

Tenure track blazer

JD: A recent paper in the journal Research in Higher Education revealed something women in academia already knew: that female professors perform, "significantly more service than men."
By "performing service", they mean helping students directly, organizing extracurricular activities, sitting on committees – you know, trivial stuff like that. Which leaves the women less time for research, teaching and publishing than men have. Which means they're paid less and have less opportunity for career advancement.
There are two ways to fix this problem. One: you can recognize and fix institutional sexism. Two: create a fun-yet-serious ensemble for scholarly women on the go.
Good news – Number Two is totally done. As part of its "Workwear Spectrum" collection, The Gap has introduced a look it calls "The Tenure-Track Professor." Suede pumps, light grey crop pants, a blue camisole top, and a blue blazer. And The Gap adds this powerful message next to the photo of the model in the outfit: "Get respect for your ideas and blazer choices."
As opportunities for women in higher education go, this is big – like XXL big. And yet, unlikely as it seems, those very women seem kind of unimpressed.
Ohio activist Lena Tenney tweeted, "Yes, wearing this blazer will single handedly guarantee tenure despite gender bias that exists in every single step of the tenure process." Cultural anthropologist Hannah Gould tweeted, "Buy a #tenureblazer and all academic sexism will melt away, apparently. Also, who teaches in heels??" And author and writing professor Kaya Oakes tweeted, "While The Gap is selling 'tenure track professor blazers, the adjunct blazer is for sale at Goodwill. The lining is made of crushed dreams."
You know, it's almost as though these critics – and many, many others – are saying "ideas and blazer choices" haven't helped women get higher respect in higher education yet. And even though it is a pretty sweet jacket, it can't sugar-coat the truth.

[Music]

Ed Balls day

JD: Happy April 28th! Depending on where you are in the world, you might be celebrating National Heroes Day – that's in Barbados. Or Lawyers Day, which is marked in parts of India by, I'm assuming, pretty much no one.
But if you are on Twitter, if you are a Twitter-er there's a good chance you're taking stock and remembering April 28th, 2011. On that day – at exactly 11:20 AM – the British politician Ed Balls tweeted out two words that shook the world: Ed...Balls.
Apparently, he meant to search for himself on Twitter. Instead, he found himself tweeting his own name. And every year since, the Internet has paused to re-tweet Ed Ball's original, mistaken Tweet: "Ed Balls". It's now been re-tweeted 92-thousand times...and counting.
So today we join that world-wide chorus to say it loud and proud: "Ed Balls".

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

April 28th, 2017 episode transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode