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The AIH Transcript for February 23, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: A farewell to arms. He has a tattoo of the Second Amendment, but the Florida High School massacre was too much for Scott Pappalardo. So he sawed his own AR-15 in half.

JD: Skicross examination. After Kelowna’s Kelsey Serwa wins gold in a scorching Olympic final, a family friend in her hometown tells us what it was like to watch the race, and hold his breath for a minute-and-a-half.

CO: The injured party. Just months before an election, the embattled Patrick Brown wants to replace himself as leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. But fellow candidate Caroline Mulroney says, for the health of the party, he has to go again.

JD: Feeding their frustration. A BC judge orders child welfare workers to let a woman breast feed her baby. But the chief councillor of her First Nation says that wouldn't be necessary if his community's families were treated with respect.

CO: They don't know their Owen strength. But they'll find out on Monday, when hundreds of people gather in Melbourne to say “wow” in unison in the style of Owen Wilson.

JD: And the mullet's over? Well, mull it over. And before you dismiss it, consider this: tomorrow, one Australian town will hold MulletFest 2018, and it will be a party in the back and the front.

JD: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that guesses that's about the long and the short of it.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: AR 15 destroyed, Caroline Mulroney, MulletFest competition

AR-15 destroyed

Guest: Scott Pappalardo

JD: You don't have to ask Scott Pappalardo if he supports the right to bear arms. The New York state man has the Second Amendment tattooed on his body. But last week, after watching coverage of the Florida school shooting that left 17 people dead, he began to question some of his long-held beliefs. So much so that he posted a video online of himself holding an AR-15, and destroying it with a power-saw. We reached Scott Pappalardo in Middletown, New York.

CO: Scott, do you miss your AR-15

SCOTT PAPPALARDO Yeah, I would say a little bit. I still can't believe I actually did it, but it was for the better.

CO: You said in your video that you made that you're pretty attached to this gun — you liked it a lot. What is it about the AR-15 that you liked?

SP: That particular weapon I bought when I was about 18-19 years old, and quote-unquote, “it's a cool weapon”. You know as an 18-year-old kid, that's the type of weapon you always saw on TV and everything. And it was my baby.

CO: How did you come to the decision that you were going to destroy it?

SP: All the mass shootings that you see obviously affect you. But you know in Parkland, I saw the kids’ faces coming out, and I heard what they saw and their stories, and I just came to the conclusion that there's no purpose for a weapon like that in anyone's hands — at least my own hands. So I thought this was the only responsible way that I can get rid of it.

CO: Now I understand you have the Second Amendment tattooed on your arm?

SP: That I do.

CO: It matters to you — gun rights?

SP: It does. I believe that we do have a right to bear arms. But I believe a responsible right. And I think you know there at this point in time, there should be limitations on it.

CO: What is the AR-15 designed to do?

SP: Technically, kill; any firearm is technically designed to kill. The AR-15 is actually a version of a military weapon; the military weapon was an M-16.

CO: You didn't just destroy your weapon — your firearm — by cutting it in half; you did it in a video. You explained what you were going to do, you did it, and you explained why you did it. Why did you want to be so public about it?

SP: The real reason I did it on video and you know for people that don't have a gun or shoot may not understand this, but I did love that weapon. And to me, it was like having a sick dog and having to take it to be put down. You know I was I was ending the guns misery technically, and I needed a higher purpose than to just go in my backyard and do it.

CO: What has it become? What reaction have you had?

SP: Mainly, I've had a very positive reaction from it. The comments have been wonderful, for the most part. I have to say shout out to the Canadians because the comments I've received from Canada have been amazing. And I've certainly got my share of hate; I've gotten plenty of hate.

CO: I've been following a lot of the response that the kids are getting — the kids from this from the school. And the reaction is so extreme — it's so hurtful — especially for teenagers.

SP: Absolutely. I mean I'm a 50-year-old man, you know I can take whatever anyone wants to say to me because I know what the truth is. And I know what I did. So they can say whatever they want to me, and I did what I did willingly. Those kids were forced into a situation they never should have been forced into, and pushed into the spotlight. And to attack them in any way is reprehensible.

CO: You mentioned you get a of response from Canada. In Canada, we don't understand how you could have a situation like you do in the States with the kinds of weapons that are available without very much background checking. And that it can continue on killing after killing, shooting after shooting with so little check.

SP: I can't explain it myself. I mean I don't know if you saw the interview with the father when he was in the White House where his daughter was killed in the Parkland shooting. And he said when we had 9/11 we fixed it; We had one — one 9/11. And this should have been fixed after the first school shooting. And he's absolutely right. We can't keep just saying oh, now is not the time to talk about gun law changes or you know protecting our children you know making schools more secure. We have to do something, but every time we just sit back and the discussion kind of fades until the next one. And these kids here — these kids from Parkland — they're not going to lay down. They're not going to let their voice disappear. This is the movement.

CO: We heard from Florida Governor Rick Scott today, who said that he wants to raise the minimum age to buy a semiautomatic rifle to 21 from 18. What do you make of that?

SP: A step in the right direction. I'm not opposed to semiautomatic weapons; I’m opposed to their capacity. I mean if we limit the capacity of the gun so someone cannot shoot 30 rounds and then put a new magazine and shoot another 30 rounds — that shouldn't be. This crime that happened in parkland wouldn't have happened where I live because we don't sell guns like that anymore here. You know at 18, you're possibly still in high school. I don't think someone that age with the stress of what we have in schools these days should be should have access to a weapon like that. I think the age definitely should be at minimum 21, but that's only a step in the right direction.

CO: You said you were 18 when you bought your AR-15.

SP: I was, but the gun was legal for me to buy, and maybe it shouldn't have been.

CO: Scott, it's good to talk to you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SP: Thank you. Have a great day.

JD: We reached Scott Pappalardo in Middletown, New York. And if you haven’t seen it, and would like to see that video of Mr. Pappalardo destroying his AR-15 with a mightier saw, his Facebook video on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Caroline Mulroney

Guest: Caroline Mulroney

JD: Caroline Mulroney says that the Ontario Progressive Conservatives are facing a crisis. She cites "allegations of misconduct, wrongdoing and fighting." And Patrick Brown? He's a whole other story. But despite all this, she is vying to be the party's next leader. At a press conference in Toronto today, Ms. Mulroney took shots at all her opponents, but especially Mr. Brown, who resigned last months after sexual misconduct allegations. And then, in a shock move last week, rejoined the leadership race. Caroline Mulroney asking him to, quote," Do the right thing", leave the race. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Ms. Mulroney, what in the world is going on with Ontario's Progressive Conservative Party?

CAROLINE MULRONEY: Well, it has been a whirlwind that is for sure for. The last four weeks has been tumultuous, but we have an opportunity that I believe is still real and still strong to finally defeat the Liberals.

CO: At the same time, I mean whatever the party can offer it’s within the party that the first battle has to happen before this election, which is only months away. And you have all this what appears to be a lot of backbiting, a lot of dirty laundry being washed in public, and a lot of people who seem to have different ideas about where the parties should go. How do you bring that together?

CM: Well, you're right. We've seen allegations come up in the last few days, and that that has led to a lot of questions about the party, which is why I’ve suggested that Patrick Brown should step aside and address those allegations outside of the leadership race. But you know the party is still strong; we're still well poised to defeat the Liberals. But we need to pick the right leader to do that. We have been out of power for 15 years. The last time we won an election was 19 years ago, and so we have an opportunity now to pick a new leader who can actually defeat Kathleen Wynne in under 100 days. And that's why I put my name forward because I know that I am the candidate who can do that. And we need to do that.

CO: Is it possible for you to pull the party together if Patrick Brown is in this leadership race?

CM: I believe absolutely that I can pull the party together…

CO: But if he stays… I’m sorry, if Patrick Brown stays in the leadership race, and stays within the party through this period, can you pull the party together at this point?

CM: I have said I hope he does the right thing and puts the party first, and steps aside. If he decides to go ahead with his leadership bid, I know that I can be successful and I can unite the party. The party has an opportunity now to turn the page on the past. I am new to the party, I bring a different set of skills, there's a lot of momentum on my campaign, people moving towards me because they are looking for something new, and believe we have to present the voters of Ontario with something different. Even if he does stay in the race, I am confident that I will win on March 10^th.

CO: Patrick Brown believes he is the victim of a conspiracy; he doesn't believe these women. Where this begins, as you well know, is with two women who accuse him of sexual misconduct. Do you believe those women?

CM: Carol, I believe that these allegations are very serious, and need to be addressed. And he needs to take the time to address those allegations as well as the other ones that have been made. But he needs to do that outside of this leadership race.

CO: Do you believe those women.

CM: I believe that those women need to come forward and make sure that when any woman wants to come forward that those allegations are treated fairly and with respect.

CO: But you don't have a view as to whether or not they are telling the truth? Because he say they are not.

CM: I mean I believe that they are brave to come forward, they need to be treated fairly and with respect. But each case needs to be looked at individually, and I am running a leadership campaign, working as hard as I can to get members on side.

CO: He's not the only one though is he? Because Rick Dykstra, the party president who stepped down, he is accused of sexual assault — You now have two prominent men within the party within these kinds of allegations. As a woman, how do you feel about that?

CM: As a woman, I am saddened to hear how widespread this is. But as someone who's been working myself, I'm not overly surprised. I believe that there is strength in our voices coming together, and I hope that when my daughters are working, and even before then, we will be able to make sure that these kinds of things are not as widespread as they've been in the past. As a female politician, I hope that I will have the opportunity to speak for women on these issues. But as a woman, it is something that concerns me, and we need to make sure that there's change.

CO: Just finally, aside from the sexual allegations, the party's other problems — and they are admitting this — that you have tainted membership lists, fraudulent membership lists, tainted nomination meetings, problems with finances, this is the rot that the interim party leader Vic Fedeli he speaks of. Lots of problems! If you're going to try and say that the Liberals have to go because they're corrupt and rotten, how do you do that when people are wondering about your own party?

CM: There is a lot of work that we need to do within the PC party. I know that Vic Fedeli and the caucus members are doing their best right now to make sure that the party is as strong as it can be on March 10th for the new leader to take over. But I can also tell you, Carol, because I've been working as a nominated candidate for months knocking on doors with volunteers from this party that this party is filled with wonderful people of great integrity who are giving up a lot of their time to work for the kind of better vision of Ontario that they believe in. And so we have to make sure that at the top that our processes in place are reflective, that they're fair and transparent, and that is something that I will focus on.

CO: I appreciate that. But at the same time, you have to convince people of that. Why should they trust you? After learning of all “the rot” as Vic Fideli calls it, after seeing all this dirty laundry washed in public, why should voters trust your party?

CM: Well, this is why my leadership offers a real chance to turn the page. I am relatively new to the party; I was working in the private sector for 20 years, and didn't like what I saw at Queens Park. And that's why I put my name forward to be a candidate. And so I have been a candidate, working hard to be part of a team that brought change to Queens Park. I am new to the party, and my ambition here is to make sure that we get Ontario back on track — that we implement policies that are in the long term best interests of Ontarians, not based on political calculations. And so that's why I believe we have an opportunity here to really turn the page. And I think that voters in Ontario see that, understand that, and are looking for that kind of a change.

CO: we will be watching. Ms. Mulroney, thank you.

CM: Thank you very much. Have a good day.

CO: You too.

JD: Caroline Mulroney is one of five candidates for the leadership of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party. We reached her in Toronto.

MulletFest competition

Guest: Laura Johnson

JD: They're famous for being business in the front and party in the back. And now, one town is combining business and party to celebrate that infrequently celebrated hairstyle: the mullet. The Australian town of Kurri Kurri is set to hold a Mullet Fest — drawing dozens of competitors hoping to win the seemingly, perhaps, oxymoronic title of "best mullet of them all". Laura Johnson is a hairdresser, and the host of MulletFest 2018. We reached her in Kurri Kurri, Australia.

CO: Laura, in your mind, what makes for a truly glorious mullet?

LAURA JOHNSON: Well, I really think that anything that is procured for long enough to become a mullet. It takes years of investment to really get that party in the back going on. So I think anything with a bit more than about 12 months’ length is pretty glorious.

CO: As they say, that’s all business in the front, and all party in the back. So that's the business part in not so difficult to get, right? Maybe describe for people what you mean by the business and the party.

LJ: So short at the front cut into any style, which is what we're finding, and why we've got more categories that just one. So anything short at the front and long at the back. Some of them are a little bit blended where it goes from short to long. And others — an example is the skullet — is quite harsh, where it’s shaved to skull at the front, and then just really, really long at the back; no blending, no transition, just all hair at the back, and absolutely nothing at the front.

CO: Besides from the skullet, I mean the mullet is not entirely straight forward — it's not just one look, is it, because you've got a whole bunch of categories in your mullet competition?

LJ: we do, that's exactly right. Yup, we have a ranga-mullet, which “ranga” is the Australian slang for a redhead. And they get a category of their own because they're quite magnificent to look at. We have the lady-mullet. And we have a junior-mullet, which is anyone under 18-years-old. And then we have everyday-mullet, which is more your traditional blended sort of long-to-short styles. And then your grubby-mullet, and grubby-mullet takes in all of those extreme styles. Some have got quite a thin section of long hair at the back like a Mohawk. Some are off to the side like a Jedi. Yeah, there's lots and lots of different types we’re finding.

CO: Why is your town doing this — why Kurri Kurri?

LJ: Well, there was a school of thought amongst our locals that they actually created the mullet, and that it originated here in Kurri. And that also, we've held onto it for the longest. And so we just thought it would be a good bit of fun to see if we could find out whether we kept it in style, and whether we still actually had the best mullet of them all. And it's just a good bit of fun, you know? Our town has really struggled over the last few years. We've had our local aluminium smelter closed about four years ago, and took with it 400 generational jobs. And we're only a town of 4,000 people, so you can imagine that had a huge devastating impact on our economy; small businesses from hairdressers to pubs and even our local workers club has shut down. Hairdressers, dress shops, butchers, we've lost so many businesses. Like, the town has really, really done it tough. And my goal was just to create a bit of fun, and show the world what a lovely town, and remind them how close we are so they can come visit.

CO: You say that you think that mullet originated in Kurri. Why do you think that? What's the story? What is the legend everyone lives with there?

LJ: Well, the way it works in Australian country pubs is that everybody you know has a drink and spins the yarn and keeps themselves entertained with their story. My father-in-law, for example, he's 61, you know he's been rocking a mullet his whole life. So they're sort of throwing down the gauntlet and saying we've had the mullet for 60 years; we've got to have originated it. So we’ll see.

CO: It's hilarious that you've held on to it long enough that it's back in style.

LJ: Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Well, and it's funny, you know? Everybody that is coming along to our day, and everybody that's gotten on board so — the mullet wearers — you know there are a lot of them who are long-term, forever mullet wearers. I had a lovely lady ring me yesterday actually after entries were close. And she was nearly in tears. She said oh, my husband has had a mullet for 25 years; we've only just seen it. We really want to come on board. Like, what can we do? And I think some people are just a mullet wearer in their soul. And it doesn't really matter what the fashion does; they're going to stick to it.

CO: There are some great female mullet wearers — wonderful women mullets. So are you getting a lot of entries for the women’s category?

LJ: the women's category is definitely way less than the men's. When we started our press tour, we actually only had one lady entrant. And now that the entries are closed, we have six. So I think women tend to sometimes they don't even realize that they have a mullet. Other times, they're just a little shy; whereas the men that have entered, are certainly loud and proud about their mullets.

CO: Well, there are some magnificent women mullets, so we'll hope to see them in future competition. But is it not true that the Beastie Boys invented the mullet?

LJ: Oh, well, there’s throwing down a challenge; we'll have to research it and find out when they started rocking it?

CO: Well, maybe we have to tell the Beastie Boys that they didn't. Because if you go back 70 years with yours, I think you're definitely initiators of this extraordinary hairstyle that plagued us for decades.

LJ: we've had some amazing interest for our MulletFest competition. We actually have secured now the winner of the Miss Mullet of Them All is going to get a double V.I.P backstage pass to Billy Ray Cyrus’s is show here in the Hunter Valley in March. And they actually are going to get a meet-and greet with Billy Ray. So he wants to meet the winner of MulletFest. So that's very exciting because, obviously, he's a very iconic mullet wearer across the globe.

CO: Laura, we're going to have to get photos of this competition. It sounds like a lot of fun.

LJ: You absolutely are. I'm sure we can put some up on your website. It's going to be so much fun.

CO: Have a good time. Thank you.

LJ: Thank you.

JD: I miss the mullet. Laura Johnson is a hairdresser and host of MulletFest 2018. We reached her in Kurri Kurri, Australia. And if you would like to see some of these world-class “Kentucky waterfalls” in competition, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Saggy pants

JD: Wendell Gilliard is a Democratic state representative in South Carolina. He's accomplished a lot during his time in public service. But there is so much that he'd like to accomplish. For one thing, he'd like to get some movement on one issue in particular: pants. And he'd like the movement to be upward. Representative Gilliard thinks it's unhip to wear pants below the hip. He fought the fashion as a Charleston city councillor, and he was all set to fight it again at the state house. Last week, he co-sponsored Bill 4957, which would have made it, quote, "unlawful for a person to wear pants sagging more than three inches below his ileum", unquote. Now, there were two major problems with the proposed law, though. First: "ileum" was spelled I-L-E-U-M not I-L-I-U-M. I-L-I-U-M means hip bone. I-L-E-U-M — as per Mr. Gilliard’s bill — means "the third portion of the small intestine". The precise location of which is quite difficult to assess without some kind of medical imagery. Now, of course, that's just a typo. The true intent of the proposed law was clear, and that is problem number two, and caused critics to descend like a pair of baggy jeans. They said the bill was racist, and unconstitutional, and the least important, most ridiculous subject South Carolina's government should be addressing at the present. Mr. Gilliard heard from a lot of angry voters, and he said, quote, "they are right". He and most of the bill's other sponsors pulled their support, and the bill is off the table — for now. And so it's good to know that even adamant advocates of irrelevant clothing-based legislation can be like pants: worn down.

Part two: Olympics: Kelsey Serwa win, BC newborn child services

Olympics: Kelsey Serwa win

Guest: Michael Ballingall

SOUNDCLIP

COMMENTATOR: Serwa in first, the Canadian Brittany Phelan right behind her; Canadians one and two! Just like four years ago in Sochi. Serwa in red, racing down; Phelan in the green. Final jump! Serwa is first. A gold medal for Kelsey Serwa, and silver for her teammate, Brittany Phelan.

JD: Well, you can tell who watch last night's Olympic women's ski cross final today. They're the ones with the visibly gnawed nails. But that nail-biter did finish well for Canadians; they took one and two. Kelsey Serwa, as you heard of, Kelowna, took the gold. And her victory made especially sweet because her best friend, also as you heard, Brittney Phelan, crossed the finish line right after her to take silver. And back home, there were viewing parties around the ski resort where Ms. Serwa skied growing up. Michael J. Ballingall is a family friend and the organizer of those parties. We reached Mr. Ballingall at Big White Ski Resort, near Kelowna.

CO: Michael, what was it like to see Kelsey Serwa cross the finish line last night?

MICHAEL J. BALLINGALL: Well, it was probably the most exciting Olympic experience I've ever watched in my life, and I'm just about 60-years-old, so I've seen a few Olympic games, and a few magical Canadian moments. But to actually know the athlete that's in the start gate that takes on a whole nother meaning, and a whole different level of anticipation and excitement and nervousness. And we had a lot of bars and restaurants up here full of people with the exact same feeling.

CO: Describe the scene up there at Big White Ski Resort.?

MB: Well, of course, Big White is just outside of Kelowna, and we're a village on a mountain, so we're up at 5,500 feet above sea level, so it's truly a winter wonderland. And, of course, everyone's here vacationing, and Kelsey's name is all over the resort; her picture is everywhere. Of course, we are the home of a silver medalist — she won the silver medal in Sochi. And so everyone was anticipating this event, and we had viewing parties everywhere. So even if you were from Europe or you're from America because it's the end of President's Week or Australia, you were into the buzz that Canada’s very own — Big White’s very own — was in the start gate. And you were certainly excited to help your colleagues and your bar patrons cheer them on.

CO: And, as you mentioned, she won silver at the Sochi Olympics. What's extra special I understand about this is that not just that she won gold last night, but that her best friend, Britt Phelan was right behind her winning silver. What do you know about that friendship?

MB: Well, Kelsey has had a few injuries since Sochi and the world championships and the X Games. And so she lives sometimes here in Kelowna — where she's gone to university — but most of the time, she lives in Whistler, and she trains out to Whistler. And Brittney's been her training partner and her roommate for many, many years. And they've kind of fed off each other's energy. And to have them go one two — I know just watching Kelsey and what she spoke about her friendship with Britney in the past — it was very special for the both of them to finish and stand on that podium for Canada.

CO: I just want to play a clip of Kelsey Serwa, speaking with CBC's Scott Russell because this will capture the mood.

SOUNDCLIP

KELSEY SERWA: I mean as soon as I came across the line I looked back, I’m like who is second? And I saw Britt’s reaction, and I knew it's her. Again, an amazing experience to win the Olympics, but to stand there beside your teammate and best friend is incredible. We're tied at the hip; we share everything. You know we don't have any secrets in terms of the track and what our plans are for racing; we feed off each other. And I think that's what has made us so strong today.

CO: All right, talking about her friendship; that sounds like quite the bond.

MB: That's the special part of the DNA that makes up Kelsey Serwa. I think your listeners would have heard the emotion in her voice. But more importantly, you know we've all seen the great Canadian team sports of the women's hockey team, the men hockey team winning gold medals, whether it's the speed skaters. When you're on a team, there's a special bond. But these are individual sports; you're head-to-head with your competitor beside you. But the fact that you can have a friend beside you win gold and silver for that magic moment not only will it be something that they'll share in life forever, but the young people that it just sends that signal to for how important friendship is and how wonderful friendship can be when you have goals that you share together.

CO: You mentioned that the family of Kelsey has been around for some generations. Did people see Kelsey grow up? Did they see her develop into this ski talent?

MB: Well, Kelowna has been a small town in the middle of British Columbia in its entire existence. And back in the ‘60s, her grandfather grabbed a chainsaw, and hiked through the bush, and cut a trail to what he called Big White. And people would come up, and they would ski on the weekends, and he was the founder of Big White Ski resort with Doug Mervin. And we celebrated our fiftieth anniversary four years ago; they were here. He was at the finish line yesterday — her father and mom were at the finish line yesterday — she has many cousins, aunts, and uncles that live in the valley. It was just wonderful to see you know the family that is such a great representative of our community, but also of Canada and how proud they are of this little girl. And, of course, the fact that this little girl grew up here and challenged us all to keep her safe because she was a daredevil. She jumped off of things and went faster than anybody else. And it certainly worked out to the best. I mean she's a gold medal champion today.

CO: Watching that race, not just to be able to do that course, but to have three people breathing down your neck. Do you have races like that? Are there people who are going to be doing things like that on your ski slopes?

MB: Tomorrow, here at Big White Ski Resort, on the Kelsey Sewa skier cross course, there will be 300 amateurs doing exactly the same thing, side-by-side, going through the skier cross course in what we call the Telus Kelowna Cup. And it's a cup — it's a fundraiser — for our local ski club, which Kelsey was a member of. And it's the first time that we've ever done a skier cross. We planned it so that we could have it after the men's and ladies race. And it's just worked out to be so well because everyone is so enthusiastic. We only had 112 people signed up as of yesterday, and over 200 people have signed up today. So it's going to be a magic day at Big White.

CO: And will they go down four at a time?

MB: No, they only go down two at a time; it's a little bit safer. The course detuned; It’s nothing like an Olympic course. But you'll start in the exact same start gate that a racer would start in. the whoop-de-dos and the ups and downs aren't as big, and you won't take air like they do there; you can stay on the ground the whole time. But the berms are there, and the corners are there, and you'll get the thrill of it. It's about a minute-and-12-seconds. So it'll be very, very thrilling for all the amateur racers. And it's a match race, so you don't have to go your fastest; you just have to try to exact your time on your second run.

CO: All right. Enjoy your whoop-de-dos tomorrow, Michael. Thanks.

MB: Thank you. Great speaking with you.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Michael J. Ballingall, a family friend of gold medallist Kelsey Serwa, and Senior VP of the Big White Ski Resort. We reached him in Kelowna.

Listener Response: Arthur Black

JD: He was a jack of all kinds of trades — but, in defiance of the cliche, he was master of most of them. But then, Arthur Black never was much for conventional wisdom." As we told you last night, before joining the CBC back in 1972, the late Mr. Black wore a lot of hats — and helmets, frankly. He was a deckhand on an oil tanker, he wrangled cows, sheet metal apprentice, a plumber's assistant, among other things. Including, we just learned, avid wood-chopper. Last night, we paid tribute to the much-loved host of "Basic Black" — who died this week at the age of 74. After that, we got this call to Talkback.

SOUNDCLIP

PAUL BROOKE: Yes, this is Paul Brooke, calling from North Vancouver. I went to work this morning, and turn on the news, and oh man, first thing I heard was that Arthur Black had passed away. Well, that was really sad. Like manym many Canadians across the coast, I was a huge fan of Arthur black. And I spent a lot of time listening to his wonderful radio show. And just want a pass along a little anecdote: A couple of years ago, I went over to visit a friend of mine on Salt Spring Island, where Arthur lived. I picked up the local paper, and there was a column that Arthur had written in that edition. It was a column about chopping wood — about Arthur on his property. And just the pleasure of living on his island property, boing his thing, you know just getting the wood together, and contemplating life in general. And it was one of the very best articles I've ever read. It was like you know the man was a genius; we all knew that. But it kind of had his whole attitude towards life, for me personally, was summed up in that article. And I'm really sorry that he passed away. I didn't know it, and, anyway, Arthur Black was a great man, and much-loved by many Canadians. And he is the kind of guy that should have lived to be 100-years-old, you know? Here's to you, Arthur.

JD: Indeed. And we tracked down the column that Mr. Black wrote. And here he is describing the pleasure he got from chopping wood, quote, "So sue me. I am in love with the smell of wood smoke and I can think of few more cheery, life-affirming sights than a curlicue of grey smoke undulating up from a house chimney against a backdrop of Canadian winter sky." Unquote. I can almost smell the wood smoke. So thank you, Paul Brooke, for sharing your memory of Arthur Black with us.

BC newborn child services

Guest: Robert Dennis

JD: A BC judge has ordered that a young woman from the Huu-ay-aht First Nations be able to breastfeed her baby this weekend. The baby had been taken into provincial care shortly after its birth. That was in January. A hearing about its future was supposed to take place within days. But it's been repeatedly delayed. In the meantime, the child has been living with relatives more than an hour away across Vancouver Island. BC's Ministry of Children had allowed the mother to visit on weekdays, but said it was too short-staffed to cover weekends. That wasn't good enough for the judge who found that it undermined the baby's need to bond with its mother. Robert Dennis is the Chief Councilor of the Huu-ay-aht First Nations. We reached him in Port Alberni, British Columbia. And, just a note, we cannot identify either mother or child.

CO: Can you just describe how she was trying to be with her baby before? What were the limitations?

RD: Well, the limitations were that three days after her birth, the Ministry came in to apprehend the child, and she was in shock that they were even doing this because she had no understanding or reason why they should be there. And then to be following up with the really minimal contact with her baby, and the contact was prescribed by them and with no consideration given to what the mother and the child need.

CO: the baby — the baby girl — was put with her paternal grandmother — someone I understand the mother doesn't have a very good relationship. And in a city that is far from where the mother actually lives. So she was staying in a motel in order to have some contact with her baby.

RD: Yup, that's correct.

CO: And she could see her for a couple of hours a day, but not at all on weekends because the Child Services doesn't have staff to allow her to do that.

RD: So they were they were prescribing very minimal contact based on the availability of their staff, rather than base on the needs of the child and the mother. And this is where we like to step in that it's more important that there is you know a good bonding relationship from a mother and daughter. You know what we're hoping for at the end of the day is that the child is back with the mother. And if there are issues that need to be dealt with, that we would work together to ensure that the mother and child can stay together, and we would provide whatever support their mother needs to keep her child, as opposed to taking the child away.

CO: Which has happened so often, hasn't it?

RD: Yeah, that's usually the trend that I'm familiar with, and I'll give you an example. When we started this project a couple of years ago, it was reported to us that there was 35 Huu-ay-aht children in care. And today, I was almost blown off my chair to find out that there are now 47 Huu-ay-aht children in care. And before, we had 25 of 34 were in non-Huu-ay-aht. And today, I'm even more flabbergasted to find out 38 of those children are now in non-Huu-ay-aht homes. And, that to me, I recall when Canada started their program of residential schools, their main objective was to remove the Indian from the child.

CO: And this is why you're referring to this as “The Scoop” — another Scoop.

RD: Exactly.

CO: The Supreme Court judge said that she didn't have enough information to determine whether it had been in the child's best interest to be removed from the home. But the Ministry argues that it only does so if it has to reduce risk to a child. Is it possible that the decision was made in the interest of the child?

RD: In terms of the ministry, I would say no. I kind of tend to think that that you know it was done for whatever other reason. If the Ministry was working diligently with the Nation, I don't think we would see 38 of the 47 children in non- Huu-ay-aht homes.

CO: So what do you think was the reason then?

RD: Well, you know that that's the reason is that you know, unfortunately, you know BC gets a good chunk of money from Canada to run this program. It's a good revenue source for the province of British Columbia.

CO: Has the Ministry said anything? Have you heard anything from the government as to why this child or any other child is taken away?

RD: There was some comments made to our administrative staff, who were totally flabbergasted for some of the reasons you know why the child was taken away. And quite frankly, you know some of those things just don't sit well with me. You know it is just our policy is what they're saying. And when we try to say well, we're willing to work so that the family can remain intact; there is no willingness on their part to work with us to make sure that the family can stay intact.

CO: Does this mother needs support if she was to take care of the child on her own?

RD: We would provide whatever it takes to ensure that this family remains intact; that's our objective.

CO: And that's actually a program that you have launched in order to provide that.

RD: Exactly. Right now, we have support workers that we've hired ourselves. Right now, our Nation is providing 650,000 dollars of our own money to initiate this program. And to date, we haven't got a plug nickel from either the Province or Canada to do this initiative.

CO: The Federal Minister has called the number of Indigenous kids in care — she's called it a humanitarian crisis, and said had to be changed. Provincial authorities are saying that they have to connect kids to their families. But you're saying that you're not getting any financial support for a program that would do exactly what both levels of government say that they think is necessary.

RD: Yeah, I'm saying that Canada and BC are saying a lot of nice words, but you've got to put it into action. And that's where the difference between where Huu-ay-aht, the Province, and Canada are right now is that Huu-ay-aht is willing to get to work, get this done, get the children move back with their families, and we would work diligently to make sure that their families remain intact in a very healthy and positive way.

CO: And do you think that eventually this young woman and her baby will return to your community?

RD: Oh, Absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind. And that is one of our goals as a Nation that at some point by 2033, we want to see half of our people return home. And when they return home, we'll have adequate housing, we'll have at it with education, we'll have adequate programs, so that they can live at home in a very good way.

CO: I wish him success with that, Chief Councilor Dennis. Thank you.

RD: Thank you very much.

CO: Robert Dennis is the Chief Councilor of the Huu-ay-aht First Nations. We reached him in Port Alberni.

Part three: Tina Fontaine family, Oregon gun control

Morneau Kids and Trump

JD: That was Tina Fontaine’s great-aunt, Thelma Favel, speaking at a walk for Tina Fontaine in Winnipeg earlier today. Joseph Favel is Thelma's husband. His speech has been affected by a stroke. We reached him in Powerview, Manitoba.

CO: Joseph, first of all, I'm sorry for all the pain that you and your family is going through.

JOSEPH FAVEL: Thank you.

CO: We heard your wife, Thelma; she's been in that march on the streets of Winnipeg; emotional, but strong as ever. She has said that you and your son and her you did everything you could for Tina, but she feels that she failed Tina.

JF: Yeah, that’s the way we feel right now. I feel like we could have done more to keep her at home at that time.

CO: This is before she went to Winnipeg, and all this tragedy began for her?

JF: Yeah.

CO: But what more could you have done though? I mean you did provide a loving home for her.

JF: Yes, we did. We did the best we could at that part. But I still feel like we failed her. And trying to get her to get her home safely, we failed at that part.

CO: Can you tell me about the phone call you got, and how you found out about this verdict of not guilty?

JF: I just left Thelma at the hotel in Winnipeg. I was done about 5o-60 miles out of Winnipeg, and I got the news saying he was found not guilty. I stopped the car; I had to get out, and walk, and reduce a little bit of tension myself because I couldn't believe that he came back not guilty.

CO: When you left Winnipeg to drive home…

JF: I was going back home.

CO: And you thought you'd hear different news? You thought you'd hear that he was guilty?

JF: That’s what I was hoping. I was hoping that he’d be found guilty of the charge of second-degree murder. But things came out differently for Thelma and I, and the supporters.

CO: Why do you think the jury came to that conclusion — decided on that verdict of not guilty?

JF: What I think that is a lack of evidence, and lack of witnesses, and stuff like that that goes into court businesses, you know what I mean?

CO: Do you fault the jury? Do you think the jury was wrong?

JF: I think so. Yeah, I do entirely think so. Because if you do, more-or-less, confess to the murder.

CO: I believe you're referring to these recordings that were made in an undercover sting operation the police had in order to get Mr. Cormier to talk about his role. And he did say things that the Crown argued constituted an admission of guilt.

JF: Yup, he did.

CO: Why do you think that wasn't enough?

JF: It should have been enough. It should have been enough for a conviction for him.

CO: At one point, you were right next to Raymond Cormier.

JF: Yes, I was.

CO: Can you describe that moment what it was like to be so close to that man?

JF: At first, when he came into the courtroom, he stared me down like I was a piece of dirt or something. But sitting next to him, I had a lot of anger; I wanted to just jump in the prisoner’s box and wail on him. But there was a lot of anger between Thelma and I. We were sitting so close like that, but there was nothing I could do. I just held back my temper, and went through that court case that day.

CO: What kind of a toll has all this taken on you and Thelma, your wife?

JF: Oh, for the last four years, it's been an up and down roller coaster for her and I, and my family. Because he took a lot away from this family; he took a hell of a lot away from this family; a bright, aspiring girl like my daughter, Tina. She had potential to be what she wanted to be, and he took that all away.

CO: If the jury is right, that this man is not responsible — that he didn't kill Tina, and put her in the river — then who did? Do you wonder about that?

JF: I'm wondering about it now. Since the verdict came out, I’ve started wondering well, who did it? There had to be somebody responsible for this, and maybe someday, somebody will have a conscience, and come up, hopefully.

CO: If Raymond Cormier didn't kill your daughter, you want to find out who did?

JF: I'd love to. But it’ll be like opening up the whole thing over again. It's going to be hurtful, but hopefully, if they do, and when they do, find the person that's responsible for this, it's going to open up a lot of heartbreaking things again. It’ll be just like the court all over again.

CO: At the same time, this case of what happened to Tina has opened the eyes of a lot of people. And the inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women has come out of this. A lot of things — a lot of awareness — has come from the death of Tina, hasn’t it?

JF: It has, yeah. It opened a lot of doors for other women and children. And I feel that her death did a lot for other women and people, but it shouldn’t have had to be her death to open the doors; it should have been done a long time ago.

CO: Thelma was saying — your wife was saying — today she says I just want the violence to stop.

JF: Yes, ma’am.

CO: Do you think that that will happen? Do you think that her request will be heard?

JF: It will be heard, but I hope it will be heard in a correct way. Where the violence would stop and where people can be safe on the streets.

CO: And 15-year-old-girls can be safe on the street. Joseph, I appreciate you speaking with us. I know it's a hard time for you, but thank you.

JF: You're welcome.

CO: Bye bye.

JF: Bye.

JD: Joseph Favel is Tina Fontaine's great-uncle. He and his wife, Thelma, raised her. We reached him in Powerview, Manitoba.

French/English hockey

JD: Canadian hockey is taking some hits in Pyeongchang. For the first time since the 2002, the women's team didn't win gold. And this morning, the men's team lost to Germany, and so they'll play for bronze tomorrow. And then there was the language problem. Hockey Canada asked a French-Canadian announcer to stop using French pronunciations for the names of some Canadian players at the Games. For example, he called player Derek Roy — who grew up in Rockland, Ontario — Derek Roy. The announcer said it wasn't a big deal, Hockey Canada said it was. And Quebec's premier agreed — calling Hockey Canada's decision "ridiculous" and "deplorable". To show how tricky it can be to live in this bilingual country, CBC Montreal's “Radio Noon” host Shawn Apel asked people to share how their names are mispronounced.

SOUNDCLIP

SHAWN APEL: And Denis is on the line from Ahuntsic; Hi, Denis. It is Denis, right?

DENIS: Very good; I am appreciate it.

SA: OK, so what kind of issues have you faced?

D: Well, I'm from Ontario — born French-Canadian in Ontario Canada, working in the English space, obviously, they say oh yeah, hi, Denis. And it's not Dennis; it’s Dennis. And I had to kind of contend with that, and you know find ways of humouristicaly kind of saying you know you have you’re thigh and you have your knee, so it’s da-knee, OK? So that would kind of phonetically at least allow them to pronounce the name well. When they write right to me, I’ve had double “n”. I am a menace, but I'm not Dennis the Menace; I’m Denis the Menace.

SA: That was Denis — not Dennis — from Ahuntsic. Art is on the line. Hey, Art.

ART: Hi there.

SA: So what happens with your name?

A: Well, to be quite honest, In Quebec here, I am very seldom Art; I am Hart — H-A-R-T.

SA: Ah, right; pronunciation thing.

A: I have a very close friend who actually since she can't say it, she says Arturo; she has a problem with Arthur. She can say Artur, but not Arthur. But she will say Arturo.

SA: Is your name Arturo?

A: No, my name's Arthur.

SA: Okay, so how do you feel about that work-around that she came up with?

A: I think it’s cute. I mean what's the difference? I say to everyone I don't care what you call me; just don't call me late for dinner.

JD: It's a classic. That was Shawn Apel, host of CBC Montreal's "Radio Noon", speaking with people who often have their names mispronounced in Quebec.

Stephen Fry

JD: He's usually a very visible, busy, prolific British writer and broadcaster. Lately tough, Stephen Fry has been out of the spotlight. And today, he revealed why. He recently had surgery for prostate cancer, and has been recovering at home. Here is part of a video he posted, in which he talks about his diagnosis and operation.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN FRY: Doesn't seem to spread the cancer because what you don't want cancer to do is to spread from one area to another — metastasis they call it. You don’t want it to metastasize, to spread its cells, to send them all over the place because then you’ve got a heck of a job dealing with it. So where are we now? Where we were in December — it’s nearly Christmas. So an operation is decided on. And in the first week of January, I had the operation — I’ve cut to the chase. And it all seemed to go pretty well. They took the prostate out. They took out 11 lymph nodes. So what next? Well, you have to recover, and that's what I've been doing, in case you've been wondering why I've been out of the public eye. I'm sure you haven’t. But I have been keeping my head down as much as possible because, obviously, you want to get better. Because cancer you know in the end, that's a word that just rings in your head. Cancer — I’ve got got cancer. I went around saying I've got cancer! Good heavens, Stephen, you're not some person who gets cancer. I mean I know it's an old cliché, but you don't think it's going to happen to you; cancer is something that happens to other people. But for the moment, I'm fit, and well, and happy. And I just wanted to let you know because rumors had started to swirl. That’s it really. I don't want to take up any more time. Thank you for listening and watching. And yeah, just get yourself checked. So thanks again. This really is the end.

JD: Do get yourself checked. That was British broadcaster Stephen Fry, from a video he posted to his website today revealing that he has undergone treatment for prostate cancer, and is recovering.

Oregon gun control

Guest: Floyd Prozanski

JD: Since last week's deadly school shooting in Parkland, Florida, the now-familiar cycle of debates about gun control have erupted across the U.S. In that time, one state has taken action. Yesterday, Oregon's senate passed a bill banning people convicted of domestic violence or stalking from owning guns. Senator Floyd Prozanski voted for the bill; he urged his colleagues to do the same. And he did this for a very personal reason. Mr. Prozanski is a Democratic State Senator in Oregon. We reached him in Salem.

CO: Senator Prozanski, what did it mean to you to vote in favour of this legislation?

FLOYD PROZANKI: It meant a lot to me and my colleges that we were able to provide an additional tool for those individuals that are caught up in domestic violence as victims to ensure that they have recourse through the courts to have order prohibiting their abusers from having access to guns.

CO: I understand that you also have a personal interest in seeing this bill passed. Can you tell us about that?

FP: Yeah, my sister was murdered in 1973 when I was in high school. The person that murdered her, he was first her boyfriend, then an intimate partner, became her domestic abuser, and then he killed her with a handgun. And so, for me, this is one of those situations that, personally, living that experience, I found it to be very important to try to provide for those individuals caught up in domestic violence as a victim to have more safeguards.

CO: If this law had been in place back in 1973, do you think your sister would be alive?

FP: That's really a hard question for me to answer. I think there are other things that were in play as it pertained to my sister's murder. That was back in Texas where I was raised. It's hard for me to speculate, but what I do know is that the stats are overwhelming. That guns in domestic violence situations, women are five times more likely to be killed. Here in the United States, 52 per cent of the women who were killed by guns during the years 2010 and 2014 were killed by an intimate partner or a family member. So, for me, I can see where this could have made a difference in her case, as well as many others.

CO: So this law is passed where you live now in Oregon, but you say you grew up in Texas. Do you own guns?

FP: I do. Yeah, I've owned guns for 45 years. I've owned guns for actually probably 47 years. Because a couple of years before my sister's murder was the first time I went out — as a 15-16-year-old — and purchased my first shotgun. I understand, and I was taught how to be a responsible gun owner. And clearly in the state of Oregon since 1925, we have prohibited felons from having access to guns. And this is, to me, a continuation over these 90 years for us as Oregonians how do we ensure more protections and gun safety for individuals that find themselves in situations where they could, in fact, be seriously injured or killed by the use of a firearm?

CO: This law would ban people who have been convicted of stalking or domestic violence, or people under restraining orders from buying or owning firearms and ammunition. Do you want to see it go further? Because that's a discussion that the young folks — the students from Parkland — are talking about, which is they want to see a ban on high-powered rifles — assault rifles. Can you see that happening in Oregon?

FP: There's been multiple discussions here in Oregon regarding that. And what I would say is I feel at this point, the Congress needs to be acting. One of the things I think we've lost in this scenario is that many people are waiting for the perfect in the sense of having a total outright ban on weapons or certain types. I would prefer, at this point, us taking let's call it the next step. We already, in the States, have a higher standard for those who want to have access and possession of fully-automatic weapons. And why not look at having that same type of regulation on weapons that are semi-automatic, military style weapons that are actually built and manufactured and designed to kill people.

CO: The fact that you've passed legislation at all has been pointed to as being well it’s the first time since Parkland. But it's very, very rare in the United States to see new restrictions on guns. It's been expanded gun rights seem to be that the trend that continues throughout the United States. But this bill would not prevent what happened in Parkland, Florida; it wouldn't have prevented this young man from having an AR-15, and doing the damage that he's done. Where do you think you should go from here? If you have some momentum in Oregon, do you think you should take that?

FP: Well, I guess what I would say, Carol, is I don't see this as a restriction in the sense of on the gun. It's really a restriction on the individuals that have been determined not to be safe individuals, who are more of a risk to society or themselves. And I do think that it's important for us to look at what are reasonable steps to ensure that we are providing for safety of others, their rights to freedom and liberty, and, at the same time, balancing as to our rights that are protected through both at federal level, the Second Amendment, and Oregon, the Article 1 Section 27 of our state constitution. For individuals that are eligible — meaning they're not being prohibited by law from having access to guns.

CO: So you live in Eugene, which is a university town. Can you imagine professors carrying guns? This is what's been proposed as being a way to get around things is that teachers and professors should be armed, and protect protecting their students. What have you heard from people in your town about that idea?

FP: Well, there's been a discussion statewide as to those type of steps that could be taken. But I guess I would say a teacher is basically an individual who's there to teach students, and to provide them for their education. I don't expect and don't believe that they are and that they would want to be required to be armed, and take protective actions in a classroom. And, clearly, when you start thinking about the likelihood of having injuries — if not deaths — from multiple people having firearms in a closed quarter area, it would be very, very inappropriate. And, from my perspective, cause much more concern for the general populace that a person could be mistaken by the police to be a bad guy. And I think he could put many more individuals at grave risk of serious injury or death.

CO: And just what do you make of the fact that the president of your country does propose that it would be a good idea if teachers were armed? What do you say to him?

FP: I say he’s wrong. To say that we're going to put some type of burden on our teachers to be protectors, and be required to actually be fully trained to actually use a weapon in those type of situations, I think is not only foolish; it's just wrong. It takes a very special, unique individual to be able to act and respond under those type of situations that require decisions to be made in split seconds.

CO: We will leave it there. Senator Prozanski, thank you.

FP: Carol, thank you very much. I hope you have a wonderful day.

CO: You too. Bye bye,

FP: Yeah, Bye bye.

JD: Floyd Prozanski is a Democratic state senator in Oregon. We reached him in Salem.

Sonja Bata obit

JD: For Sonja Bata, shoes weren't just things you sjammed on your feet to protect you from stubbing your toes. They told important stories about humanity, and culture. And that is why she spent most of her life collecting thousands of pairs of them. Sonja Bata, founder of the Bata Shoe Museum, died on Tuesday. She was 91. Ms. Bata began collecting shoes in 1946, soon after she married Thomas Bata, the heir to a Czech shoe-making powerhouse. The couple would travel around the world looking for footwear. And during their journeys, Ms. Bata would quietly collect shoes that told her about the places she'd visited, and about the people she'd met. In 1995, Sonja Bata spoke with “Morningside” host Peter Gzowski.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER GZOWSKI: Were you interested in shoes before you married Thomas Bata?

SONJA BATA: No, not in the least. I was going to be the world's greatest architects. I studied architecture in Switzerland, and then I met my husband. And I never worked as an architect. I started designing shoes, and become involved in product development, and marketing.

PG: You used architectural skills to design shoes?

SB: well, I love design. And as we were traveling all around the world, and seeing various countries, I was very intrigued why different people in different parts of the world was such different shaped footwear? What was the reason? And so I really looked at footwear from the aesthetic point of view. Why did these patterns develop? Why did these cultures develop the shapes and ways of decorating shoes? And I started a personal collection, but not because the shoes were particularly beautiful; they were just fascinating because they reflected a certain culture.

PG: Do you remember the first examples that you bought as a collector?

SB: I think it was in India. I think they were sandals, which is just a soul. And then they have like a knob between your large toe and the others. And I couldn't figure out how people could walk in these things? And I tried it on myself, and I found that they were very comfortable. So this is really how I became involved in this. And then there was another reason why I started to collect shoes. I found that as the new industries were starting up, many of these old cultures just died out. People were starting to wear jeans and t shirts and sneakers. And so the old footwear with the beautiful upturned toes or you know beautiful shapes, and people forgot how to make them. And I thought well it really is worse where to tell these stories. And so, gradually, I built up the collection. And then in 1979, we created a foundation to do it more professionally because I did it as an amateur. Frequently, I didn't write down where I got the shoes who are from whom I got them. And so since 1979, we have curatorial and conservation staff and we’re building up the collection in a proper way. And now, we are going to open our permanent home.

JD: And that permanent home became the Bata Shoe Museum, which opened in 1995. That was Sonja Battah, speaking to Peter Gzowski on CBC Radio's “Morningside” that very same year. Sonja Bata — the founder of the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto — died Tuesday. She was 91-years-old.

February 23, 2018 episode transcript

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