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The AIH Transcript for January 22, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Rideau Hall monitor, as the president of the Queen's Privy Council, Dominic LeBlanc says the Trudeau government will respond to the embarrassing resignation of Julie Payette and do a better job of picking Canada's next governor general.

CH: A turn for the even worse. Joe Biden rolls out his plan to fight covid-19, but an epidemiologist who advised the new U.S. president warns of dark winter months ahead.

CO: Crude language. While Canadian politicians deploy their fanciest rhetoric to address Joe Biden's cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline, the CEO of an Alberta oil producer talks plainly about what it will mean for the company and its workers.

CH: He's turning them loose. Bigfoot loose. An Oklahoma lawmaker announces he wants hunters to bring in a primate suspect by establishing a Sasquatch hunting season.

CO: The hens justify the means. The population of feral chickens in Key West, Florida, is ballooning and so are the chickens themselves, which is why the city is requesting residents go cold turkey on feeding them.

CH: And the hands justify the means. A photo of Bernie Sanders and Mittens that are as cool, as they are warm blows up online. And now that she's been inundated with new orders, the woman who made them has a great yarn. As It Happens, the Friday edition, radio that knows we all want to be part of a tight knit community.

[Music:Theme]

Part 1: Governor General resigns: Dominic LeBlanc

Governor General resigns

Guest: Dominic LeBlanc

CH: Today, Justin Trudeau had to have a chat with the Queen. The reason for the call was that the woman, the prime minister had picked as Canada's vice regal, was forced to resign in a harassment scandal yesterday. This morning, Prime Minister Trudeau answered questions about Julie Payette's departure as governor general and promised to improve the vetting process next time around. Dominic LeBlanc is the minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and the president of the Queen's Privy Council. We reached Mr LeBlanc in Moncton, New Brunswick.

CO: Mr LeBlanc, the prime minister has a lot of critical issues to deal with right now. Do you think he could have done more to avoid having this one as well?

DOMINIC LEBLANC: Well, we certainly have said that this outcome is far from ideal. It's not ideal for the institution. We think the governor general's decision to resign yesterday was the right one. People have the right to a respectful and healthy and safe workplace and the report that I read painted a picture of a workplace that didn't meet that standard.

CO: But do you think it could have been avoided, given the fact that there was a record, there were allegations previously about how Ms. Payette had handled jobs she'd been in and staff, it was there, it was there to be had. So what was wrong with the vetting process that led to this appointment?

DL: And that's obviously a huge concern of ours. We first learned about those allegations in previous workplaces, only when they came to the public light by CBC reporting last summer.

CO: And how is that possible, Minister, that you didn't know that before? Isn't that wouldn't that be part of the vetting process?

DL: Well, it certainly gave us reason to review the vetting process, not only for the choice of a successor to Madame Payette, but for anybody else who is going to be appointed to a job by the government of Canada. We expect and Canadians expect there to be a rigorous vetting process. That clearly was not the case in this circumstance. So we're going to make sure that going forward, it's strengthened and reinforced.

CO: Can you give us a sense of what you found alarming in the report?

DL: I think what struck me when I read the report was the number of people who had asked to be interviewed by the independent group of experts, the consultants, who did the workplace review. And it was the consistency. The findings of the report spoke to a consistency in what the reviewers, the experts were told in the confidential interviews they did with these employees. It was a workplace that was not respectful. It did not meet the standards that the prime minister and the government expect for public workplaces, public sector workplaces, and I would hope private sector workplaces as well.

CO: What do you make of it? Now, you said that so many people step forward. In fact, it took longer to do this review because of the sheer numbers of people, I think, about 100 is the number, I heard of people who wanted to say what they had encountered working with Julie Payette. What do you make of the fact that she has said in her resignation letter that there never were any complaints about her work, that there were no formal complaints, no official grievances made during her tenure, nothing on the record? Why do you think that's the case?

DL: Well, again, I can't speak to why she would think that's the case.

CO: No, that's a fact. That is a fact. Ashley Burke, the CBC reporter. [interrupted]

DL: Yeah

CO: Who said it was... [broken sentence] that's a fact. There were no official complaints.

DL: And again, I think some human resource experts say that often people are intimidated to make a formal complaint, don't feel that it'll be dealt with safely or confidentially. Rideau Hall, it's a small federal workplace. There's a limited number of people that would be in these different jobs. So I imagine, and this was the reviewer, the independent experts that did the workplace review said that there was a high degree of hesitation to come forward in a formal complaint process because there was a lack of trust in the workplace in terms of how those would have been dealt with. And that, obviously, in and of itself is unacceptable, that people felt that the best way to have their complaints heard was to go to a CBC journalists should also tell us that the workplace was in urgent need of repair.

CO: And that's another area I want to ask you if you're going to to work on fixing, because Ashley Burke was on the show last night and she was describing all these people who were willing to tell her what happened and, anonymously, but none of them would make a formal complaint. So what's wrong with a system where if only a reporter takes interest, that those complaints ever come to light?

DL: And that's a very, very critical question and a very disturbing one. And you're right, if the workplace was such that those employees who felt that they were enduring those unacceptable circumstances, the best way to have them rectified was to talk to a journalist, then the internal mechanisms need to be strengthened and reinforced. And that's exactly what the Privy Council office is doing. And I would imagine that the Privy Council office as the head of the public service will be looking at this exact circumstance at Rideau Hall and extrapolating it to make sure that there aren't other federal workplaces that could be subject to these kind of unacceptable circumstances.

CO: How will you choose a new governor general? Jagmeet Singh, leader of the NDP, is calling for the prime minister to involve all parties in the choice of the governor general, as is done in provinces. Is that something you would consider?

DL: So we, the prime minister, the government hasn't made any decisions in terms of a process to choose a successor. The governor general just resigned yesterday. The clerk of the Privy Council will be offering advice to the government on next steps in terms of choosing a successor. So we'll be looking at all of those options and will ensure that there's a process that finds the best possible Canadian to to replace Madame Payette.

CO: Finally, your father, Romeo LeBlanc, was the governor general of Canada in late 1990s. What would he have made of this unprecedented resignation of a vice regal?

DL: Well, thank you, Carol, for asking, because I thought about my dad a lot over the last week. His experience at Rideau Hall was extraordinarily positive, and some of the employees that work there have served up to seven governors general. So I sort of counted back and that would include my dad and perhaps Mr. Hnatyshyn, who was there before him. And without exception, the people that I met that work there were extraordinary. They were so kind to him. And even after he retired, some of the staff who would come on holidays in New Brunswick in the summer would call me and ask if they could drop by and say hello and visit him. So for us, it was nothing but a positive experience. And these people became very important, sort of, parts of our imagination. And many of them came to his funeral and I thought of a lot of them over the last number of days, those people who worked there.

CO: We'll leave it there. Mr. LeBlanc, thank you.

DL: Thank you very much. Have a great evening.

CO: You, too.

CH: Dominic LeBlanc is the minister of intergovernmental affairs and the president of the Queen's Privy Council. We reached him in Moncton, New Brunswick.

[Music: music box]

Keystone: Industry

Guest: Brian Schmidt

CH: Justin Trudeau says he isn't done trying to change Joe Biden's mind, as he'd promised, the new U.S. President pulled the plug on the Keystone XL pipeline project on his first day in office. It's the latest setback for Canada's western oil patch and its struggle to open up new routes to bring its crude and bitumen onto the world market. Alberta's premier, Jason Kenney, is now calling on the prime minister to hit President Biden with what he's calling economic consequences if the United States doesn't reverse course. Brian Schmidt knows something about economic consequences. Mr. Schmidt is the CEO of Tamarack Valley Energy, an Alberta based junior oil producer. We reached him in Calgary.

CO: Brian, what kind of signal do you think Joe Biden's cancellation of Keystone XL sends to the Alberta oil patch?

BRIAN SCHMIDT: Well, I think it sends a, certainly you've heard a lot of negativity about the Alberta oil patch, but I think it's a bigger issue than that. I think this is a Canadian issue and what it says to Canadians. It says that your oil is too dirty to be produced and I'm going to take the pipeline away and things couldn't be farther from the truth. And I think it really has implications that are far reaching across Canada because Canada doesn't need a reputation of our product and our brand being not clean.

CO: Your premier, Jason Kenney, is calling for Justin Trudeau to launch a trade war over this. Is that what you want to see?

BS: I would certainly like to see a much stronger response from the federal government to the U.S., because this is a very hostile move. There's a pipe already across the border right now. And if you look at other industries across Canada, where Canada has had to defend its position, it has worked and it's worked in some of the metals manufacturing in central Canada and it's worked in other jurisdictions. So why the federal government is allowing the Canadian brand to be harmed in this way? The silence is troublesome for sure.

CO: Do you really think it's been absolutely silent?

BS: I think if you look at the quote, by the prime minister, he said he respects the decision and is glad that he is moving forward on climate change. Now, that statement alone, it wasn't that we have some of the cleanest oil in the world with some of the best environmental policies. And I intend to convince President Biden to reverse the decision. It wasn't that kind of statement, strong statement that we would have rather had here on this particular issue.

CO: And so do you think a trade war? Is what you'd want to see Mr. Trudeau do?

BS: Let me just call it, take a step back from a trade war. I think that we need to have a strong voice in the public arena about the environmental policies that we have here in Canada and our brand. And I think by him not coming out forcefully in the public, it doesn't bode well for not only the oil and gas industry, but, you know, there's comments thrown by the Americans on hydro power in Quebec. There's comments thrown on a number of other industries. And I just think it is very harmful to our brand. It makes us look guilty when we are not.

CO: One thing that's been suggested is that this may be a trade off, because the other thing that Joe Biden has promised to do is to enact a very strenuous Buy America policy. Do you think that that's what you're seeing? Is a trade off hoping that just don't cut us out of that supply chain with the Buy America policy?

BS: Who knows what's happening behind the scenes, you know, that that could be happening, but, you know, I think this is a real opportunity for Canadians to rally around this specific issue. And, you know, I think far too often the assumption is, you know, by the federal government that we're on our own here in Alberta. And, you know, I think I have to applaud the federal government on Trans Mountain and the action they took there to continue that. But I think we need a bit more than that. And for example, I've never seen the prime minister talk about our clean oil product. I've never heard that or seen him talk about that. Now, I have seen Minister O'Regan do that. And I'm very pleased at his approach to our industry, we need the prime minister to be more active on this file.

CO: He has, as you know, as you said, the Trans Mountain is something they're committed to. That was a big investment on the part of Canadians and that there are people in the industry who say and the regulators, who say that maybe with the Trans Mountain pipeline and Enbridge's line three, both coming online, that there should be enough capacity for oil production to be shipped into 2030. And so Keystone XL, as useful as it might be for many people, it may not be necessary.

BS: Yeah, if you look at the crude supply and look at the you know, we've got about a million barrels a day of capacity coming online between Trans Mountain and Enbridge. And certainly we won't be swapping that up any time soon because in short, there has been some supply disruption because of the low oil prices. So the number of big projects coming on aren't aren't there like they used to be. But I expect when prices recover that you're going to see projects put back on the table and it won't be very long before you'll need that supply again. When you look at it, it takes 10 years, at least in Canada to get a pipeline approved. If you get it approved [pause] and whoever invests in it, it really means that you need to be looking at these things earlier rather than later. So XL gave Canada options. They gave us access to a new market. Our crude wouldn't be discounted. And when you're crude isn't discounted, then there's a number of jobs. The other thing I would point out is that I know the federal government cares about reconciliation and what you're doing to indigenous people. And by having these projects cancelled and not just this one, but a number of projects cancelled, we are affecting the lives of First Nations that are doing quite well in the industry. And I don't know why that isn't getting more airtime as well with the federal government, for example, about eight percent of our procurement and one of our major producers goes to indigenous people. And the federal government, by contrast, is about one and a half percent of procurement. So these are big revenue sources for remote First Nations. There's five first nations that were invested in Keystone XL, four from Alberta, one from Saskatchewan. There were a number of First Nations invested in Gateway. And, you know, once again, these First Nations, you know, these projects are cancelled on them without really anything any input from them.

CO: Brian, we will leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you.

BS: All right. Thank you.

CO: All right. Have a good weekend.

BS: Bye, bye.

CH: Brian Schmidt is the CEO of Tamarack Valley Energy. We reached him in Calgary.

[Music: Percussion instrumental]

Key West crazy chickens

Guest: Clayton Lopez

CH: The island of Key West, Florida, is around two kilometres wide and six kilometres long, or about one mile by four miles, if you prefer. And that 12 square kilometre-ish area is home to 25000 friendly people and hundreds of sometimes friendly, sometimes menacing [pause] feral chickens. Obviously, the two populations don't always coexist peacefully. And after employing a chicken catcher to no avail, human officials in the city are taking the drastic step of banning citizens from feeding the frequently foul fowl. Clayton Lopez is a Key West city commissioner who introduced the new measure. We reached him in Key West, Florida.

CO: Clayton, first of all, just give us a sense of just how cocky these chickens are getting in your city.

CLAYTON LOPEZ: [Chuckle] I love the terminology, they are getting quite cocky. I mean, we've got roosters that will come up to you. And the old joke about, where you tease about going into someone's house and a cockroach mugged you or something. Well, we can make those jokes with our chicken. [laughter] These guys are pretty bold. They will come right up to you and almost demand that you feed them.

CO: What kinds of run-ins have you and others had besides having your ankles nipped by roosters? [Laughter] What are some of the other encounters?

CL: Well, fortunately, I haven't had that one specifically, but I know people who have a very prominent attorney and good friend of mine who spoke at our commission meeting the other night, talked about her when she's leaving her own property the chickens apparently have gotten word that she's not a fan. And, [chuckle] you know, she's actually had her ankles nipped at and the like. [laughter] Again, they're pretty bold that's all I can say, you know.

CO: All right. So the way you've decided to deal with this is to make it a fineable offence to feed these creatures. And so do you think that will work?

CL: Well, not alone, no. We do have an official Key West chicken catcher working for our wildlife refuge organisation, we needed something else to go along with that. And the idea was that, you know, we need to stop these folks that buy chicken feed in 50 pound bags. You know, we even have people that dress up like chicken,[pause] OK! And ride tricycles with various types of feed to attract different types of chickens. Now, in one neighbourhood in the district that I represent, there's this one lady that has actually chased the chickens on to a neighbour's property to make sure that they ate. The neighbours, not a fan of the fowl, you know. So, [laughter] it is laughable, but it gets pretty annoying as well, you know.

CO: Right. And so and of course, it's not just that they're feeding them. It's what comes out the other end, I guess you're dealing with that as well.

CL: [Laughter] Yeah. We got chicken poop everywhere. You know, if you go to our post office, which is an historic building in the historic district, you can see I mean, it's a beautiful grounds and that used to be well kept, but the chickens have dug it all up. And of course, and then, of course, the concrete walkways and the like are all pretty much covered. It's yeah. It's amazing.

co: OK, people, your people in Key West must see this. And so what do you think compels them to dress up like chickens and ride around town with giant bags of feed? Why would they do that?

CL: Well, you know, they feel a sympathy for the animal and think that they're doing what's good for that animal when in reality they're actually doing the opposite. These animals are not designed to be in city locations and the like. And chickens by no means, even though they are historic in Key West, they're not native to Key West. So a lot of people have misguided affection, let's say, [laughter] and it creates a problem.

CO: But they must be pretty plump birds. Do they end up in people's pots at any time?

CL: None that I know of. None that I know of. And truthfully, with these feral animals, I would not recommend it. Again, keeping in mind, you know, these chickens are all over the place eating God knows what. I certainly wouldn't take the chance of trying to digest one of them myself.

CO: You may not believe this, but we've actually been covering your feral chicken problem for a while. Back in 2004, we did a story about when you hired the official chicken catcher.

CL: Yes.

CO: So, but that obviously didn't do enough. So do you think this law is going to help?

CL: This law is, we say, a supplemental thing to try and help with that, because even though we had the chicken catcher out there, we still had these folks out there. And there are a number of them, OK? It's not like we're not talking, one or two people that are out there just feeding them. We're talking about a number of people from all areas, from the old town area of the city to the new town in the area. And this is out on our boulevard and everything. And you can imagine, I mean, and we've got chickens running across there. I can't, I [pause] the short answer to your question is, that alone is not the answer, no.

CO: One of your city commissioners in Key West wants you to go a step further, wants the city to go further and have a no feed ordinance for your iguanas, apparently.

CL: [Laughter] That did come up.

CO: What do you think of that?

CL: Actually, I'm actually in favour of that as well. We've got iguanas that are burrowing into our historic cemetery. The one thing is that even those iguanas are proliferating tremendously. Those numbers are still not as great as the chicken numbers.

CO: [Chuckle] All right. Well, Clayton, I hope at some point you get back to being famous for your sunsets.

CL: Thank you so much, Carol.

CO: Great to talk to you, Clayton. Bye.

CL: Bye, bye now.

CH: Clayton Lopez is the city commissioner of Key West, Florida. And as Carol mentioned, this isn't our first Key West chicken rodeo. Back in 2004, guest host Gillian Findlay interviewed Armando Parra, who had been the city's official chicken catcher. But when we spoke to him, he decided to go freelance. Here's part of that interview.

ARMANDO PARRA: I was meeting a lot of resistance, had a lot of sabotage, people was sabotaging the traps, they were stealing them, they were breaking them and they were releasing my chickens. I could tell because, I could tell that the traps were closed, all the feed was gone, which meant there was a chicken in there eating and they had released it.

GILLIAN FINDLAY: These are people in Key West.

AP: Yeah.

GF: Who like the chickens?

AP: Because they say that 50 percent of Key West did not want the chickens tampered with. They like to see them roam the streets and go into the restaurants and go into the public buildings and cross the street with the chicks they think that that's great. And the tourists being that they don't have that back home, would get a big kick out of that.

GF: Uh huh!

AP: But it was creating a health problem, actually.

GF: Well, let me ask you this. How difficult is it to catch a chicken?

AP: Well, it all depends where they're located, being that Key West is such a small island and the houses are so close together. If you live in, say, 900 Angela Strait and you want the chickens caught, well, two feet away from you, there's another house that doesn't want the chickens caught. When the chicken goes into your yard, I can catch him when he goes two feet next door. I can't catch him. They're extremely wild, they're up in the trees like a flock of birds because they have a lot of game blood in them. They're descendants of Gamecocks that used to be fought here in Key West when it was legal. And of course, we used to raise them for food and eggs because we didn't have any large supermarkets back in the old days.

CH: From 2004, As It Happens, guest host Gillian Findlay, speaking with Key West chicken catcher Armando Parra. For even more on the story, go to our website, CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: Jazz]

Part 2: Joe Biden: COVID

Joe Biden: COVID

Guest: Michael Osterholm

CH: Joe Biden says he's undertaking a wartime effort to fight covid-19. In his first days in office, the new U.S. president has signed a number of executive orders as part of his national covid-19 strategy. The situation obviously is urgent. As of this week, more than 400,000 Americans have died of covid. And there's concern around the world about new strains of the virus. Michael Osterholm is an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota, who was part of Mr. Biden's covid-19 advisory board during the transition. We reached him in Minneapolis.

CO: Professor Osterholm, what's it been like for you to see Joe Biden's response to the virus this week?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Needless to say, it's something that all of us in public health have very much welcomed. We clearly went through the past year without a national plan, that made it a very difficult situation to respond to, a very critical situation. And now it's still a critical situation. But this road map is going to allow all of us to really, in a much more comprehensive way, respond to this pandemic.

CO: Was there really absolutely no plan under President Trump?

MO: There was no plan. There was nothing that defined the primary goals or objectives of what we were trying to do in this country with covid-19. We saw a series of disjointed activities in terms of procuring personal protective equipment that virtually put all 50 states into a large pool, of fighting for the same resources. We had no clear direction on testing, no clear direction in terms of how we would plan for and to distribute the vaccines. These all contributed to the challenges we had with responding to the vaccine and covid-19 situation. And now, of course, we are hopeful that, that'll change.

CO: You're hopeful because of how President Biden has responded, but he, at the same time is warning of dark times to come. That it's going to get worse before it gets better. What should people in your country expect in the coming weeks?

MO: Well, I think it's in both of our countries in the coming weeks. We have a tremendous concern about the ever increasing presence of these new viral variants or mutated viruses, both in terms of their ability to cause more severe illness, as well as a much more widespread transmission. And then finally, there are variants that we are concerned about that may compromise the actual antibody production or the capability of the antibody from the vaccine to protect us. So these are all coming together at a time when we are hopeful with new vaccines, but realise we still have real challenges ahead of us.

CO: And what do you say? That obviously it's in your country and in ours and in everybody else's, but, the numbers in your country are really staggering, aren't they? And are you seeing anything promising that some of the numbers are beginning to come down?

MO: Well, what we've had to understand is we're really shifting our baseline of how we look at this disease. Think, back in April when we had 32,000 cases a day, and that was a house on fire event, with New York City, of course, contributing many of those. And then we got it back down to 20,000 new cases a day in late May. But then in July, it went up to 70,000 cases, as many of the southern states really had major activity increase. But then we got it down to about 26,000 cases a day in September. And then in November, with the upper Midwest of the United States really on fire, we were at over 200,000 cases a day. But then by early December, it got down to 160 cases. And then in late December, the cases went up precipitously, again, particularly from the southern states, 200,000 cases reported in December 2009, 300,000 cases of reported on January eighth. Look at how that baseline, every time the highs get much higher and every time the lows also get higher. And now we're at 185 thousand cases. And with the new variants present, we're concerned that over the course of the next six to 14 weeks or more, we could see these numbers go much higher than the previous highs. And that's going to be happening around the world, not just in the United States. So this is a very, very troublesome development and one that we're taking very, very seriously.

CO: Also, President Biden has warned that he believes that there may be as many as 500,000 deaths in your country by the end of next month. Do you agree with that?

MO: I do. I think he is telling the story as it is. He's not sugarcoating it. But at the same time as you have seen over the course of the past several days, the administration is coming out with a clear and compelling plan to address many of these issues, around coronavirus. And so I'm pleased with that and as much as we surely have major, major concerns, I think at this point we're poised to deal with it as well as we have since the pandemic began.

CO: Joe Biden says he wants to vaccinate 100 million people in the United States in the first 100 days. Will that happen?

MO: I believe it will. I think that the process has been put in place to make sure that happens. The big challenge is actually going to be just how much vaccine can we produce? You know, you can't move that any faster than the manufacturing capability of what you do. Now, we can surely build more capability down the road. We can bring on new vaccines that can be approved that add to the number of doses we have. But I think the real challenge will be just making sure we have enough vaccine.

CO: In Canada and other places they have decided to give only one dose of the vaccine and to in order to vaccinate as many people with a single dose hoping that more vaccines arrive in order to give them a second dose at a much later than what the manufacturers have said it should be administered. Is that what the United States is going to do as well?

MO: The United States is really sticking with trying to get both doses in to individuals at roughly the same time period that the studies that were presented for approving the vaccines demonstrated the protection. And so I ,none of us believe that it has to be administered that second dose and exactly the day of three weeks or three weeks post your first dose. But at this point, I think that the U.S. approach of having vaccinations occur as close to that as possible, is still very reasonable. Until we learn more about, can we space them out? I think we're in the right place to do what we're doing.

CO: We'll leave it there. Professor Osterholm, thank you.

MO: Thank you very much. Have a good day.

CO: You, too.

CH: That was Professor Michael Osterholm in Minneapolis. He's the director of the Centre for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota and served on Joe Biden's covid-19 advisory board until inauguration.

[Music: Drums/percussion]

Hank “Henry’ Aaron Obit

HANK AARON: "I feel a great sense of humility, gratitude and appreciation for this day and for what it means to me and my family. I'm extremely proud to be joining a group of men who performed on the baseball field, epitomise the highest and the best in professional athletics. I'm pleased to be joining them in the company of Travis Jackson, Happy Chandler and Frank Robinson and some of baseball's greats. I also feel especially proud to be standing here where some years ago, Jackie Robinson and Roy Campanella, prove the way and made it possible for Frank and me and four other blacks hopeful in baseball. They proved to the world that a man's ability is limited only by his lack of opportunity. [clapping] The sheer majesty of this occasion and its significance overwhelms me, for truly I reflect on my life, and particularly in my 23 years in baseball, I am reminded of a statement I once read and I quote, "The way to fame is like the way to heaven through much tribulations". It had been for me to quote a very popular song, a long and winding road. Nevertheless, I have been extremely blessed in my lifetime. I stand here today because God gave me a healthy body, a sound mind and talent. For 23 years, I took the talent that God gave me and develop it to the best of my ability. Twenty three years ago, I never dreamed that this high honour would come to me. For it was not fame I sought, but rather to be the best baseball player that I could possibly be.

CH: Hank Aaron speaking at his induction into the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1982, Hank Aaron died today. He was 86.

[Music: Techno]

Bernie Sanders mittens

Guest: Jen Ellis

CH: You never know what people are going to find especially memorable or memeable. This week, for example, it's a photo of a grumpy looking guy sitting outside in Washington, D.C. What struck people was not just his expression and his cross legs and crossed arms, but what's on his hands. The guy, of course, is Bernie Sanders. And amid a parade of dazzling winter coats and outfits at Wednesday's inauguration in Washington, his cool mittens emerged as the accessory of the season. His pose and his paws inspired hundreds of memes. And if anything, it seems to be accelerating, with people inserting Mr. Sanders into famous album covers, into classic works of art and onto their own front porches. Jen Ellis made those, now famous, mittens. She's a grade two teacher and we reached her in Essex Junction, Vermont.

CO: Jen, did you have any idea that your mittens would one day be world famous?

JEN ELLIS: I had no idea. It's a complete surprise to me, and it's a little overwhelming, too.

CO: Are you getting a lot of orders?

JE: Yes, I currently have 13,500 emails in my inbox, and I think that my inbox is now full [chuckles] and so I won't be able to respond to all those people. I'm so flattered and it's so lovely that people want them, but I won't be able to make them any mittens.

CO: When did you realise that your mittens were playing a big role in the inauguration of President Joe Biden?

JE: Well, I mean, I think I was probably still in denial up until, like some point later in the day yesterday. And, you know, a lot of people have been calling to interview me. And then today, people from like the Middle East and the Soviet Union or Russia, people have been calling me from all over the place, Australia. And so I guess I'm realising that it has gone global. And that feels like a lot because, you know, I just got up this morning like every other working person and went to work and, you know, spent the day with the seven and eight year olds in my class and sent the report cards home and now I'm home with my family. So it's really interesting that people want to talk to me.

CO: That's so amazing. And was there a particular point, though, did anyone notify you that you were, that your mitts were trending?

JE: Yes, I was actually remote teaching at the time and my phone started dinging and I ignored it because I was busy, but it was very persistent. And so I was concerned that maybe something was going on with my parents. And so I did look at my phone and yeah, everyone was like, oh, my goodness, your mittens are all over the place. Bernie Sanders wore them to the inauguration and it was shortly after that, that I was done teaching. So I scooted home. I watched it all on TV. And, yes, I immediately was getting emails and phone messages. And that's how it happened.

CO: Now, the memes are hilarious and they're not mean. The good thing about them is the spirit, right, isn't it. So, hashtag Burnie's mittens is, just bringing so much joy and delight to so many people. Do you have a favourite?

JE: Well, I really love the one that is Mean Girls. I don't know if you've seen this movie. But the girl is like in the cafeteria and the mean girls don't want her to sit at the table. And then in one of the other tables, there's Bernie Sanders looking kind of grumpy. And I think that's hilarious. I just I still laugh every time I see that.

CO: And so how did Bernie Sanders come to buy your mittens? Do you know? What's the story behind that?

JE: Well, you know, he didn't actually buy them. I gave them to him as a gift. And I've never met him. And I'm loosely connected to him. Or I was because my daughter went to the pre-school where his daughter in law was the director. She owns the pre-school. And so I was making mittens as a holiday gift for my daughter's preschool teachers. And at that time, Bernie had lost the nomination for the Democratic candidate for the 2016 election. And so this was five years ago. And I, you know, I felt sad. I felt sad that Bernie didn't win and I've always supported him and liked him. And so I made an extra pair of mittens for him and I put a little note inside that said something like, you know, I still believe in you and I hope you run again. And then he did, which very much delighted me too. So I gave them to the director, Lisa Driscoll, and she gave them to him. And that's how it happened.

CO: Did you know that he'd been wearing them ever since? Only in the winter of course.

JE: Well, yeah, Lisa told me that he liked them. And so that was the last I heard of it for ages. And then a year ago when he was on the campaign trail, he wore them at a women's march in New Hampshire and they started to pick up some Twitter notice then. And I'm not actually really on Twitter. I went on Twitter last year around this time to sort of see what the buzz was about. But because I don't really have the time to be on Twitter, I couldn't really figure it all out. And so this year, when it all happened again, I had to figure out what my old [laughter] Twitter password was to go back in and, you know, send everybody a friendly message saying that I don't actually have any mittens for sale anymore. So, yeah, I knew that he was wearing them last year, but I haven't you know, I've actually had no contact with the Bernie campaign or Bernie Sanders. I wish him well and I don't expect him to contact me at all.

CO: But now just tell us a little bit about the mittens, because I understand that they are entirely made of recycled material.

JE: Yes, they are. The wool is made out of discarded wool sweaters. So wool sweaters that have a moth hole or many or stains or, you know, or they were put through the wash and shrunk. And so I cut out the bad parts and I save the good parts. And I sow them together with other sweaters that have, you know, nice colour combinations. And then I lined them on the inside with fleece. So fleece is actually a recycled material, too. It's made out of shredded, recycled plastic. And so I guess the only thing that's not recycled or repurposed is the thread, which I just buy.

CO: So, that's what Bernie's wearing. In addition, I mean, of course, the mittens fit with everything else he was wearing, don't they. I mean it like the parka that he's been wearing since forever. And the simple attire. It's very Vermont, isn't it?

JE: It is very Vermont. And when I used to sell them at craft fairs, people loved that Vermont quality. They look nice and cosy. It's cold in Vermont, you know, it's cold in Canada. [laughter] I'm sure you can relate.

CO: So you're a teacher. You have a life. You have a child. Do you have enough sweaters to recycle to fill 13,000 orders?

JE: No, I have no intention of doing that. And, you know, I think that that would be against the spirit. Right. Like, I could go online and I could sell a few pairs of mittens for an enormous amount of money. And I just feel like that would take all the joy out of it. That wouldn't feel right in my heart. But, what I am looking to do is maybe do some charity auctions or something like that, I don't want to be greedy. And I don't want this to turn into something that isn't what it is. It was a gift and it was given from the heart. And I don't expect anything in return. It was a unique one of a kind thing, and it actually is priceless. You can't put a monetary value on that.

CO: Jen, it's lovely to speak with you. Thank you.

JE: You're welcome. It's lovely to speak with you, too.

CO: Bye.

JE: Bye.

CH: That was Jen Ellis. She's the woman who made the Bernie Sanders mittens that have inspired hundreds of memes. We reached her in Essex Junction, Vermont. And for more on the story and to see some of the Mitton memes, go to CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: Elevator music]

Bigfoot hunting season

CH: And now, quote, unquote. [background music begins]

CH: A huge part of hunting is waiting, waiting in a tree, waiting in the rain, waiting in a tree in the rain, waiting for boredom to give way to something more meditative and ultimately waiting to shoot something for dinner. And in Oklahoma, hunters will also be waiting for a long time for one mysterious target in particular and waiting for a law proposed by State Representative Justin Humphrey to make sense. The Oklahoma Republican's bill calls for the creation of a Bigfoot hunting season, complete with rules, licence fees and sanction dates. Mr. Humphries says his intent is to bring more tourism to the state. But according to the agency that would be tasked with enforcing the policy, he'll need to start by bringing Bigfoot to the state. The department's head says he favours a science driven approach to wildlife management and doesn't recognise the Sasquatch, in that context. Mr. Humphrey might have been better off consulting the agency first. [Pause] Yet he didn't. It's important to note that the lawmaker says he doesn't want anyone to kill Bigfoot. He's merely hoping for the creature's capture. But based on the initial reaction to his proposal, he'll be lucky if no one kills his bill. [Background music ends] Of course, nothing is more elusive than Bigfoot except maybe Justin Humphrey's grasp of analogies. In a press release, he wrote, "A lot of people don't believe in Bigfoot, but a lot of people do, just like some people go deer hunting while some people don't".

[Music: strings]

Quebec workers live in retirement home

Guest: Donna Rolfe

CH: The Manoir Stanstead Retirement Home in Quebec has some new residents, over a dozen staff members have actually moved into the home to try to prevent the spread of covid-19. It's the second time staff have done that during the pandemic. Donna Rolfe is the assistant director of Manoir Stanstead. She's also a care worker there. She told the CBC how they came to the decision to become residents, to help the residents.

DONNA ROLFE: The director and I were communicating one night when we heard about the lockdown and she said, what do you think about locking in? I said, well, I'm in. So we have a messenger group or just our staff. I wrote on the group, just a survey, who would be willing to lock in because we needed at least 13 to 14 to do it, to be able to manage, and within the hour we had 15 of us.

SEAN HENRY: Wow. [pause] What difference does this make, the fact that you're living there in the daily lives with your residents?

DR: They can go to the dining room and eat. Of course, we still only have two per table. We're still respecting all the rules, even though we, you know, being our own little bubble with nobody coming in and nobody going out. But we don't want the residents to have to start the routine over again when we do leave.

SH: Sure.

DR: So we're still respecting the masks. It's six feet apart, but they are allowed out of their room.

SH: OK, because if you came to work physically and your 14 other colleagues showed up to work, they would have to stay in their rooms. Is that what I understand?

DR: Yes. They wouldn't be allowed to go into the dining room to eat and, you know, then we'd have to tray them all in their rooms and we wouldn't want them to live in a little room with, you know, four walls.

SH: Right. How does it work for people who do come to work? You said there's 15 of you who are locking in. But is anybody physically showing up for work in your group?

DR: Nope.

SH: No?, OK,.

DR: They're outside of work, but they've made a pact with us when we leave here. The [inaudible], of course, not the director and me, that they're going to do extra time to give them a rest.

SH: I see, OK. What are you hearing from the residents about your decision?

DR: They're very thankful! They can't believe that we give up our families for them.

SH: You're all hunkered down together. How are you spending your time? I do understand some of the residents are pretty big hockey fans.

DR: Yes, [laughter] we go and watch hockey. We have a big chapel with a big screen TV. We go up and watch hockey and have popcorn and soft drink and all get into the games together. Most of our residents are Canadian fans.

SH: Good. So they were happy with last night's result?

DR: Yes, they were. We have a couple that’s not. So we may get really challenging and joking around with them. [laughter].

CH: Donna Rolfe is the assistant director of Manoir Stanstead Retirement Home. She was speaking with Sean Henry on CBC Montreal's DAYBREAK.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Part 3: Canada Basketball fine

Canada Basketball fine

Guest: Glen Grunwald

CH: The world's governing body for basketball had a message for Canada this week, either play or pay. Canada basketball is facing a 227 thousand dollar fine from the International Basketball Federation, also known as FIBA. That's because the Canadian program decided not to send its players to a qualifying tournament last November, in Dominican Republic, on the advice of health authorities due to covid-19. FIBA is also threatening to go a step further and dock Canada's national team a point in the standings for the absence. Glen Grunwald is the president and CEO of Canada Basketball and the former general manager of the Toronto Raptors. We reached him in Burlington, Ontario.

CO: Glen, did you have any idea before this week that you'd be facing this massive fine for skipping out on that tournament?

GLEN GRUNWALD: Well, I was very surprised and quite disappointed. You know, we had been talking with FIBA for a while about trying to find a solution to these issues. And I thought that we were going to find a way to make up those two games later in the year, perhaps in February. They did say that there was a disciplinary hearing, but as long as they confirmed that the reasons we didn't play were because of medical issues or concerns, then there would be no penalty. But obviously that turned out not to be true.

CO: Penalty of 227 thousand dollars and CBC Sports has tried asking FIBA for an explanation as to why they did this, but they didn't provide one, not yet, as we're speaking. Has anyone explained it to you?

GG: No, and we're not the only nation that's been put in this difficult position, you know, South Korea, China, Taiwan have also been fine. There were 14 teams total that were unable to play in November. And, you know, I don't understand why it has reached this stage, but again, I'm going to try and be positive and try and work with FIBA to find a solution to these issues. We've seen that sports can be held relatively safely if the right protocols are in place.

CO: But you didn't feel there was any way to do that last November when you made this decision about this to not take part in that qualifying tournament. Can you tell us what your concerns were then?

GG: Well, what happens is these players assemble in this case, it would be in the Dominican Republic from all over the world, even though they might be representing Cuba and Virgin Islands and the Dominican Republic and Canada. These players are playing in Europe or Australia or Asia. The concern is that we're flying commercial carriers and there's a possibility for infection, but also that we're, you know, bringing people together. So the need for additional quarantine time and additional testing was the primary concern. And what's strange is the USA Basketball hosted a bubble in Indianapolis. And the sort of the protocols we were asking for were conducted there and they successfully held that that event, those games in November. So so, again, we're hopeful. We've been working diligently in good faith to try and find a way to make this happen in February because our players want to play and we want to make it happen if we can, but only as long as it's safe.

CO: What kind of advice, medical advice, expert advice did you have when you made that decision last November?

GG: Well, one of the great things that I've seen as part of this pandemic is how the Canadian sports community has pulled together. We've received tremendous support from the Canadian Olympic Committee on the podium, Sport Canada, providing the medical resources that we need to, like, work together, learn from each other's experiences and what's going on in other sports. So our chief medical officer advised against it, and that was supported and confirmed by the rest of the sport, medical community.

CO: Do you have any regrets about that decision, given what you're having to face now?

GG: Well, no, it was the right decision, but it is frustrating and I'm frankly quite disillusioned that this is where we're at, at this time, it's totally unnecessary. And there are other solutions besides trying to strong arm the federations into playing when we don't think it's safe.

CO: But if you have to pay that, fine. What kind of a cut does it take into your money you have for your program?

GG: Well, you know, that funds a lot of our age group competitions. And, you know, we'll have to make cuts elsewhere. It's [pause] it's not good for us, but we'll do what we can to get through this if we can't get this fine overturned on appeal.

CO: Because you're trying to grow the sport in Canada, aren't you trying to grow basketball in Canada? And so that money would be going into those kinds of programs, would it not?

GG: Exactly, from referee development and recruitment, because our sport is growing so fast, we have a real shortage of referees. So we need to spend money in that area. We need to spend money in coaching development, and we need to make sure that safe sport is present throughout our sports system, including the grassroots basketball. So we're really trying to work with coach education and club licencing to make sure that kids and families have a safe and good experience when they do play the sport.

CO: So the sanctions from FIBA, from the International Basketball Federation, not just the money, what other part of the punishment did they meet?

GG: Well, they took away a win basically in the standings from us. But again, they said that they would return that point to us if we participate in the next window, which ironically, like we're so close to finding a solution to the next window, they didn't need to use that strong arm tactic. And we were, you know, in good faith and working very hard with our medical team to find a solution. So that made it all the more disappointing that we received this fine.

CO: So you think that it's not so much a fine, as it is a tactic to ensure that you attend the tournament in February?

GG: That's part of it, yes, but they're only returning half the fines. So [inaudible].

CO: But you were already working toward that. That seems that you are planning to find a way to take part in the tournament in February, is that right?

GG: Yes. And like I said, we were making good progress. The protocols, you know, the additional testing, the additional time necessary for quarantine to ensure that people aren't infected and infecting others. It was being worked out. And so we were working through the last details, making some last minute confirmation. So we're trying to be good partners, but we're also, most importantly, trying to be safe.

CO: Did you ever think that you'd ever have to make this kind of a choice between the health and safety of your players and the support staff and playing in these tournaments?

GG: No, no. It's, it's kind of shocking, really, that FIBA does not respect the medical advice that we received. And I'm, like I said, really disappointed.

CO: Glen, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

GG: Thank you, Carol.

CH: Glen Grunwald is the president and CEO of Canada Basketball. He spoke to us from Burlington, Ontario.

[Music: Drum beats]

Vietnamese smuggling conspiracy

Guest: Reverend Simon Nguyen

CH: It's impossible to forget the horrific story from October 2019, when 39 Vietnamese migrants were found dead in a refrigerated trailer in the UK after suffocating. Now, four men have been handed prison sentences for manslaughter, ranging from 13 to 27 years. Several other members of the gang have been jailed, too, with the justice calling it a sophisticated, long running and profitable human smuggling conspiracy. Back in November of 2019, Carol spoke with Simon Nguyen, a Vietnamese Catholic priest in London who was acting as an intermediary between the victims' families and police. He spoke about those who died, some of whom were as young as 15 years old.

SIMON NGUYEN: Oh, this is very, very hard. You know, the family of this 15 year old I visited at the mortuary of this boy with, you know, the parents. So it was very distressful, you know, to see, you know, the body of this young man. I found it very, very difficult to come to terms with such a tragedy.

CO: Just maybe you can tell us how these teenagers became involved in this, because we know that a lot of adults are leaving Vietnam trying to get work.[interrupted].

SN: You know, because his mother and father, they all live here and is why, you know, maybe, you know, see the family, you know, the parent couldn't get, you know, the people or anything, I don't know. But because, you know, his father and his mother, they live here. They are living in London.

CO: And so they were expecting their son to arrive in this country. What have they learnt as to how their son ended up dead in this truck?

SN: Because, you know, usually, you know, the boy where, you know, wherever he went, he always called his father and his mother. But since the incident happened, he stopped calling. So they suspected he was one of the victims.

CO: Did the family know that this was risky, that it was going to be a dangerous journey for their son?

SN: Many of them, they knew so well, you know, and I also told them many times that it is very, very dangerous. I advised them, could you please pass on the message to the people in Vietnam not to try to do it this way? Because it's very, very dangerous. You know, the incident could happen at any time. You know, sooner or later. It's a matter of time.

CO: You have talked to families who are afraid to talk to the police. Why are they scared?

SN: Maybe because they, it could be, from the people who, you know, organising, you know, the trip or, you know, because of, you know, the application to be, you know, settled in the UK. Any of the reasons behind.

CO: Do you think those families are ever going to know the whole story of what happened to their kids and their relatives who went in that truck?

SN: I doubt it, because, you know, that is very, very complicated because this is an organised crime. So I don't know, you know, whether, information will be revealed to them, I don't know. But, you know, it is quite complicated because of the many people involved in this awful crime.

CH: From our archives, that was Reverend Simon Nguyen speaking with Carol in 2019.

[Music: Soft chimes]

Bosnia refugees stuck

Guest: Nicola Bay

CH: For weeks now in the Bosnian town of Bihac, hundreds of migrants have been sleeping rough in the cold winter weather, while nearby housing facilities for migrants sit empty. The housing facilities are funded by the European Union, but the mayor of Bihac has refused to open them. The situation comes just weeks after a fire destroyed much of the Lipa refugee camp, forcing migrants to find shelter in abandoned buildings and wooded areas. Nicola Bay is the country director of the Danish Refugee Council in Bosnia and Herzegovina. We reached him in Sarajevo.

CO: Nicola. Can you just, first of all, tell us how dire is the situation for these stranded migrants in Bosnia?

NICOLA BAY: I mean, well, following the fire on the twenty third of December, I think what we're looking at now is, as is an essential humanitarian response in really difficult weather conditions. Over the last week or so, the conditions for migrants in Lipa have improved with, for example, everyone being moved to tents and water being connected. But we're still not in a situation where people are being provided with safe and dignified accommodation.

CO: How many people we're talking about here?

NB: There's a total of about eight thousand people in Bosnia, of which just under 6000 are in reception facilities. And around, over 2000, including the people in Lipa, are in, sort of makeshift shelter.

CO: The group that's really in jeopardy, the humanitarian crisis, is for our group of about 900 people, is that right?

NB: Yes. But I would also include in that number of the approximately one thousand, one thousand two hundred people that are sleeping rough in abandoned buildings or other makeshift settlements across Bosnia.

CO: The one group has been given some kind of tent accommodation since that tent village burnt down. This area, Bihac in January is very cold, as I'm sure, you know, how are they living in those towns? Are they heated? Do they have a connection to water? Do they have cooking facilities?

NB: Currently, they're relying on food distribution by the Red Cross. The tents are heated, but they're running off mobile heaters that need to be refuelled every two hours or so, especially at night with extreme temperatures, not all of the tents are heated. Water was connected just recently. So hopefully by next week we will have the first showers. And the main challenge now remains providing proper health care on site because up to now, there really weren't conditions to do that.

CO: There is a town very close to where they are, Bihac, and there's an empty shelter building that should be available to them. Why will the mayor of Bihac not let them into that building?

NB: I mean, I think to be fair, the [inaudible] and then the town of Bihac has had the main role in accommodating migrants over the last few years. And that facility is located in an urban area. But right now, looking at the humanitarian conditions in Lipa, I think it would really be an alternative, that facility or any other facility to sort of bring people out of the cold and ensure that they can stay in a safe place, at least for the winter months.

CO: But they're supposed to be in that building, right? There's financing for them to be sheltered in that structure. Is that not the case?

NB: That's correct. There is a fully equipped reception facility that was funded by the European Commission in the centre of Bihac.

CO: So why can't they go in there?

NB: Currently, the [inaudible] authorities are taking the position that the Bihac facility cannot be reopened, given their long standing request that alternative solutions be found by the state authorities.

CO: So these people are being used as kind of hostages to push as bargaining chips, if I can use that, to pressure the authorities to do something larger with this crisis. But meanwhile, these people are sleeping rough. And as, you say another thousand living wherever they can in abandoned buildings. Some of them are hiding in the woods, right?

NB: Yes. I mean, right now, the end result is that two thousand people are sleeping rough. So there really is an urgency to sort of develop a longer term plan and really ensure that a thousand people have access to proper accommodation and services and medical care. A thousand migrants and asylum seekers in Bosnia doesn't constitute, in our opinion, the migration crisis. It is an issue that needs to be managed and addressed.

CO: Well it's a crisis for them. And so if there are ways of dealing with, there's money that's given to them for this job. The Bosnians are saying we don't want to have to solve this problem. We want them to go elsewhere. And so are they using this as leverage in order to get a larger solution for these 8000 people?

NB: I mean, I think there are a lot of actors that need to come together for a long term solution to be found because, yes, the Bosnian authorities need to find adequate solutions to basically locations where people can be housed and where reception facilities can be built, given that the support is available. But on the other hand, the European Commission that has indeed provided sizable funding also has to engage in a longer term strategy that is not about solving the immediate crisis. Every year we have a winterisation crisis, and every year we find a last minute solution, but I think we can no longer rely, as this year's experience has shown, on last minute solutions.

CO: So there is no, they're not providing these last minute solutions. So these people in the cold of January and it's very snowy and cold there they are stuck. Where are they from? Where are these people from?

NB: The majority of people, the largest groups that are currently in Lipa. It's: Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan are the three largest groups.

CO: And where are they trying to get to?

NB: I mean, people, Bosnia is a stepping stone for people that are seeking to go to the European Union. People are now sort of facing the alternative between staying in these conditions in a harsh Bosnian winter or trying to cross the border to the EU through Croatia, where there have been just this year, Fifteen thousand cases of illegal pushbacks back to Bosnia, many of them actually over 60 percent involving violence.

CO: What's the morale like amongst these people? You've just been in the region two days ago. How are they doing?

NB: I mean, quite apart from the harsh living conditions, I mean, some of these people haven't taken a shower for over a month. They haven't been able to change their clothes for over a month. They don't have access to proper health care. But I think one of the biggest factors is the uncertainty. They really don't know what's happening.

CO: This part of Bosnia, suffered its own humanitarian crises in the 1990s, this is the area where people were in mass numbers, ethnically cleansed and forced from their homes. They became refugees. They hid in those same woods. Is there any sympathy, locally for those refugees and the plight that they're in?

NB: I mean, I have to say the truth. There is. I mean, there are numerous examples of Bosnian citizens that are helping migrants and refugees, that are especially when people are pushed back from Croatia, people are providing food, they're providing clothes. So, yes, there's a very, sort of, harsh overall narrative around migrants of refugees in Bosnia. But then you have really numerous examples of people stepping up and putting in their own time and their own, you know, their own money to help people and really showing solidarity.

CO: Nicola, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

NB: Thank you very much.

CH: Nicola Bay is the country director of the Danish Refugee Council in Bosnia and Herzegovina. We reached him in Sarajevo.

[Music: guitar and drum beats]

Manitoba burial plot mix-up

Guest: Angela Griffith

CH: When a Manitoba man died unexpectedly on Christmas Day, he was laid to rest in the town's cemetery in the town of Deloraine, Dan Griffith had bought the plot himself through the funeral home. But now officials in Deloraine are asking his family to dig up Mr. Griffith's body because of a mix up. The gravesite had already been sold to someone else. When the town redrew the cemetery map, someone mislabelled the plot as available. Angela Griffith, Dan's daughter, says the family that first bought the site now wants her father moved. Here is Ms. Griffith sharing the story with the CBC.

CH: That was Angela Griffith speaking with CBC Winnipeg reporter, Meaghan Ketcheson. Officials responsible for the cemetery did not return our colleagues' request for comment.

[Music: strings instrumental]

The story about a stutter

Guest: Peter Joynt

CH: U.S. President Joe Biden has been open about something he's lived with his whole life, a stutter. We've talked about the effect Mr. Biden's stutter and his candour about it has had on people, including Atlantic editor John Hendrickson, who also has a stutter. In 2019, he told Carol that he had a heart to heart with the then Democratic presidential candidate about their experiences. Seeing a man with a stutter in the White House has had a similar effect on Ottawa rapper and motivational speaker, Peter Joynt after trying to hide his stutter for years, he now speaks to students about it. This morning, the CBC's Robyn Bresnahan asked him to tell a story about an encounter with a student.

PETER JOYNT: I sure can, but I'll probably be fighting off tears as I tell the story. I tour schools and I've spoken out a bit. A hundred and sixty schools, in Ottawa. And from time to time, there'll be stutterers in the crowd and they'll come up and talk afterwards. Holy cow. I have to regroup over here. Excuse me one second. Is going to try to get composed. Yeah. And in one case I received a note from a teacher, that's after I'd spoken, saying that this student who would usually not talk in class, is now speaking [gets choked up] because they were so inspired by what they had seen when I came to their school. And that's the story, holy cow!

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Yeah. Holy cow.

PJ: As you can tell it still hits home.

RB: Yeah.

CH: Rapper and motivational speaker Peter Joynt speaking with CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning, about a student who was moved by his own story of living with a stutter.

January 22, 2021 Episode Transcript

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