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The AIH Transcript for January 14, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Full court press. A Chinese court sentences a Canadian to death and an advocate for the families says the Prime Minister should be pulling out all the stops to reverse what he calls a political reprisal.

JD: Unusual suspect. A former FBI investigator says it would have taken more than some peculiar press conferences for his former colleagues to start investigating whether or not the U.S. President was working for Vladimir Putin.

CO: One for the road. The owner of Wetherspoon, a chain of British pubs, explains why he started visiting his own establishments and button-holing his customers -- trying to convince them of the benefits of a no-deal Brexit.

JD: Keeping you warm? An eBay bidder pays a pretty penny for a colour-coded scarf that a German commuter made as she knitted through the frustration but exasperating year of train delays.

CO: Word of mouse. An Ontario couple helps expand the Mickey Mouse Club to the visually impaired, as they begin digitally translating some of Walt Disney's most famous characters into images you can touch.

JD: And me, myself, and fries. A Spanish man opens up an operation that allows you to make blood sausage using his own family recipe, so long as you're willing to use the ingredient that is coursing through your own veins. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that's sanguine about his chances of success.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Probe into whether Trump worked for Russia an 'extraordinary development,' says ex-FBI official

Trump-Russia

Guest: Frank Figliuzzi

JD: Donald Trump's ties to Russia are once again in the spotlight. The New York Times reported over the weekend that the FBI had opened an inquiry into whether Mr. Trump was working on behalf of Russia, and whether the U.S. President posed a threat to national security. Today Mr. Trump responded to the story with a firm denial.

SOUNDCLIP

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I never worked for Russia -- and you know that answer better than anybody. I never work for Russia. Not only did I never work for Russia, I think it's a disgrace that you even ask that question because it's all a big fat hoax. It's just a hoax.

JD: In another development The Washington Post reported that President Trump has tried to hide details of his discussions with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The paper says Mr. Trump once demanded the notes of his own interpreter and told his linguist not to talk about the meeting with other members of his administration. Frank Figliuzzi is the former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI. We reached him in Tucson, Arizona.

CO: Mr. Figliuzzi in your time at the FBI, could you ever have imagined starting an investigation of this kind into whether a sitting president was working on behalf of a foreign power?

FRANK FIGLIUZZI: This is truly an extraordinary development in extraordinary times. Counterintelligence professionals always think about the 'what-ifs' the possibilities -- and we're well aware that the goals of foreign intelligence services are always to penetrate us at the highest level of government -- to attempt to influence the highest circles and decision making groups. But I have to honestly tell you in my 25 year career in counterintelligence the notion that, even contemplating the notion, that the president might actually be playing for the other team really never came on our radar screen.

CO: You've looked at what The Washington Post and others are reporting as to what led to the opening up of this counterintelligence investigation, what alarm bells went off for them in your view?

FF: Well I think we have the obvious which is the public conduct of the president that has us all kind of scratching our heads -- but much of that quite honestly developed even after the firing of the FBI Director James Comey and beyond and continues to this day. So as someone who has sat in that seat and had to make the decisions on case openings and closings -- if my team had walked into my office and said 'boss we think we have enough here. We think it's time to take a look at opening a case to determine if the president is being influenced, recruited, or has already been recruited or co-opted' -- as we say in our vernacular -- I would have wanted more than his public behaviour. My gut tells me that in order to do this they had other indicators of a highly classified nature -- whether they were intercepts, electronic intercepts, whether they were sensitive human sources, whether they were allied governments sharing their intelligence with us, Russians perhaps intercepted talking about the president as if he were theirs or as if they had him on their side -- I think that would have combined with public behaviour to make a case for going to Department of Justice and convincing them to concur with the opening of such a case.

CO: Would they also have been somewhere in the bedrock of that decision -- what we have learned from what's been revealed from Christopher Steele -- this former British spy who worked as an informant and compiled this memo, the dossier that indicated that there were these strong connections between Russia and the United States, and also between Mr. Trump and people within the Kremlin?

FF: Well the more time plays out the more we seem to learn that the Christopher Steele dossier seems to be quite accurate. You know one of the things like when I talk about the dossier, I remind people that sources, informants, assets, recruited by intelligence services are not Sunday school teachers -- they have their own issues and baggage, so the question becomes whether you can properly vet them, whether you can corroborate their information -- and Christopher Steele's information is turning out to be quite helpful and quite accurate it appears.

CO: Now perhaps the most pressing bit of I guess evidence or concern is that Mr. Trump had a session with Mr. Putin that no one but interpreters were allowed to attend and then he sees the interpreter's notes afterwards and swore the interpreter to secrecy about what had happened at that meeting. He says that's just -- well, that's just what he does -- and people who defend him say Mr. Trump just likes to get close to people, likes to be very personal, and this is the best way to build that relationship. What alarm bells do you think went off with the FBI when they heard that?

FF: A couple of thoughts. One is whether or not this is his personal style or not, there is no lawful reason to seize the translator's notes and to keep this meeting private even from his most trusted confidants -- not sharing the information for example with the (DNI) the Director of National Intelligence, the Secretary of State, the National Security Adviser, the Senior Analyst at CIA who would be waiting on the edge of their seat to hear how Putin acted in the meeting and what his responses to certain topics were. So he's acting against typically, to the outside observer, he's acting against his own interests as president. So we're left to wonder whether he's acting in his own personal interests when he acts like this. And so one question I have and that many lawyers are wondering about is whether perhaps the special counsel or some other body, perhaps the House of Representatives, will consider issuing a subpoena for that translator to either testify or produce notes.

CO: Well if it's not in Mr. Trump's political interests, it's not in White House interest, it's not in the public interest, it can only be possibly in personal interest of Mr. Trump -- what does that say to you about this idea of whether or not he's been co-opted?.

FF: Yeah he's not helping himself with his behaviour -- so it leaves counterintelligence professionals to conclude that there are other agendas at work here and so a personal discussion with Putin for two hours -- and by the way Putin's a man who came out after that discussion at Helsinki and was asked a question by a reporter which was during the campaign 'did you tell your government to throw their support behind candidate Trump?' And his answer was one word, 'yes.' That means that the entire power of the Russian government was supporting candidate Trump -- and those of us who study Russia understand what that means and the gravity of that -- that the intelligence services, the oligarchs, everyone is all hands on deck to support this candidate. So when the president has a two hour private meeting and refuses to discuss what transpired in that meeting, we're left to wonder the worst.

CO: All right. Well obviously there is a lot more to cover and more to come. Mr. Figliuzzi I appreciate speaking with you today. Thank you.

FF: It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Take care.

JD: Frank Figliuzzi is the former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI. Today we reached him in Tucson, Arizona. And we have more on that on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Brexiteer

Guest: Tim Martin

JD: British Prime Minister Theresa May made one last pitch to British MPs today, urging them to back her Brexit deal or else. Parliament is set to vote on the controversial plan tomorrow. Here is Prime Minister May speaking to the media earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY: But as we start this crucial week in our country's history, let's take a step back and remember both: what is at stake and what we stand to gain by coming together behind this agreement. Settle the question of our withdrawal, and we can move on to forging our new relationship. Back the deal tomorrow, and that work can start on Wednesday. Fail, and we face the risk of leaving without a deal -- or the even bigger risk of not leaving at all.

JD: British Prime Minister Theresa May speaking earlier today. And as you heard she is warning about the possibility of a no-deal Brexit, which would see the UK leave the EU without any plan in place. Many say that kind of Brexit could be an economic disaster for Britain. Tim Martin however disagrees. Mr. Martin is the founder of the pub chain Wetherspoon, and he has been showing up at his pubs trying to convince his customers about the benefits of a no-deal Brexit. We reached Mr. Martin in Exeter.

CO: Mr. Martin how have your pub patrons been reacting to you interrupting their pints to talk about Brexit?

TIM MARTIN: Well they are quite interested actually. I always say that pub goers are Brexit supporters, but dinner party goers tend to be 'remain' supporters -- so I've had a good reception. Maybe I've had been so long in favour of Brexit myself that I have attracted the Brexit supporters and repelled the remainers already.

CO: But now what you're telling them -- you're trying to convince them of that a no-deal Brexit is not the worst case scenario -- you think it actually might work, that goes against just about everything we're hearing about what will happen if there's no deal Brexit. Why do you think that can actually work?

TM: Well a lot of people have been arguing for a deal with the EU -- have been not wanting to leave the EU at all, and they made this cascade torrent of pleadings to stay in the EU or absent that to have a deal. But of course as soon as you say, we must have a deal at any cost, which is in the chorus from the Financial Times, from the CBI, the Employers Federation, The Times newspaper of London, and the good the great -- as you say you must have a deal at all cost, you lose all your bargaining power. But in any event it's a myth -- if you don't have a deal -- if you leave the EU on the 24th of March when we are due to leave, you avoid 39 billion pounds which is a substantial sum of money, you regain control of fishing -- it's an island country with a lot of coastline so that's a plus, and you can also eliminate the protectionist EU tariffs.

CO: Right but you didn't mention the one thing that -- the reason why many people voted for Brexit, is because they don't want immigrants coming -- they don't want people crossing the border. So do you share that? Do you believe that Brexit would eliminate refugees and immigrants from coming into your country?

TM: That's a handy urban myth that's been put about by people who voted remain because it gives them a sense of social superiority -- you know if you voted 'remain' you're nice-liberal-worldly looking, etc. It's nonsense. What people realize, intelligent leavers realize and that's the overwhelming majority, is that with quite a low birth rate you need a relatively decent level of immigration -- so people realize you need a level of immigration but what they don't want is for it to be controlled by people who [inaudible].

CO: Okay -- whether it was a good idea or not to be part of the European Union, you are integrated into it. And what we're hearing are the kinds of things that will happen in the short term if not for quite a while -- that there are going to be food shortages, that the trade is going to collapse, everything is going to be checks and custom controlled -- well the British Army has put 3,500 troops on standby to manage the fallout -- your national health services has planes that they're chartering in order to bring medicine into people. It sounds like chaos.

TM: It sounds like you've been reading the stuff from the pro-remain elites who are determined to keep us in the EU.

CO: Mr. Martin which of these things isn't true? Is it not true that there's 3,500 troops on standby to manage the fallout?

TM: There is a very rude word for describing [chuckles] but it's a fantasy -- fiction. I mean we've got troops in this country, so what are they on standby for? I tell you one of the things that was going to be that nothing was going to come across the Channel ports because of new import and customs controls. But the UK can sweep away controls and is not intending in seriousness to increase the number of barriers so tomatoes from Spain can't get through to the UK.

CO: Is it not true the NHS is chartering planes in order to ensure that there are medical isotopes for people who need cancer treatments? That's not true?

TM: Well I suppose if you think there's a chance -- the ports aren't blocked for any of the goods which come from the rest of the world, so there's no reason they could be blocked in the long term from the EU. But I suppose if you're running a hospital, you have to maybe take some precautionary measures in case there is some disturbance value or bad blood or whatever it might be -- but of course those things have happened before -- there's been strikes in France in particular which of course the ports seize up so medical supplies got through to the UK in the Second World War --I'm reasonably convinced that it's in the interest of the people who sell us those supplies on the continent of Europe to keep them coming through.

CO: Have you brought anybody over to the other side? Have you convinced them that Britain can leave the European Union without a deal?

TM: It's hard for me to say really. I mean I campaigned against joining the euro, and we won that. I campaigned in favour of leaving Brexit, and we won that. Those are the two campaigns I've had in my entire life and I'm 63 years old. So did I have an influence? Well I like to think I did but probably [chuckles] not necessarily that much, but it's a good outlet for my energy -- put it that way.

CO: Okay. Well I'm glad we gave you another outlet for it Mr. Martin.

TM: Very nice to talk to you. Thanks Carol.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Tim Martin is the founder of the Wetherspoon chain of pubs. We reached Mr. Martin in Exeter. Meanwhile British Labour MP Tulip Siddiq is postponing the birth of her second child via planned cesarean section so she can vote against the Brexit deal tomorrow. She told the Evening Standard she is going against her doctor's advice because she cannot trust the British Parliament's pairing system which would normally see a member opposite abstain from casting a ballot to ensure the overall vote is not affected. Labour MP Harriet Harman addressed the issue in the British House of Commons today.

SOUNDCLIP

HARRIET HARMAN: The House will obviously be fully aware that we have a very important vote tomorrow in which all honourable members will want to take part. And I'll raise the issue of my honourable friend, The Member for Hampstead and Kilburn, who is nine months pregnant and due to have a cesarean tomorrow. Now she should not have to choose between going through the division lobby in a wheelchair nine months pregnant having postponed her cesarean or losing her right to vote. If the whips were to agree and with the agreement of the leader of the house, would it be possible Mr. Speaker for you to facilitate her -- to have a proxy vote so she can have her baby and have her vote? This is something the House agreed to in February last year in principle -- in the circumstances of this important vote tomorrow, and my honourable friend's pregnancy -- would it be possible for this to be arranged?

JD: British Labour MP Harriet Harman speaking earlier today about her Labour colleague Tulip Siddiq.

[Music]

Train delay scarf

Guest: Sara Weber

JD: We have all heard of 'making lemonade when life hands us lemons,' but how about a winter accessory out of incessant delays on your daily commute? For the whole of 2018, a Munich area clerk by the name of Claudia Weber knitted a scarf. It records each day she experienced the train delay travelling between the suburb where she lives and the city centre where she works. The scarf became a cacophony of grey, and then pink, and then red. And when Ms. Weber's daughter posted photographs of the finished product on Twitter, the commuters of Germany rallied in solidarity to rail against...well rail delays. The scarf has just sold on eBay for quite a handsome sum. We raged Claudia Weber's daughter, Sara, in Munich.

CO: Sara we heard that the eBay auction closed hours ago. How much did the scarf get?

SARA WEBER: It got 7,550 euros, which is a lot more than we ever expected.

CO: That's somewhere between 11 and 12 thousand Canadian dollars.

SW: Which is crazy.

CO: That's quite a chunk of change. How does your mom feel about the scarf being so popular?

SW: Well she always said that it's crazy because it's so ugly and she doesn't understand why people would pay that much for it. But we were all really surprised. We are here, tonight when the auction ended, having some drinks -- basically refreshed eBay. And then in the last 20 seconds, it doubled to over 7000 -- which was way more than we ever expected to get with this.

CO: Do you have any idea who bought it?

SW: I do but I can't talk about it yet.

CO: Okay. All right. But was it somebody who thought it looked like a warm scarf to wear or it is purely political?

SW: I think it's more for a good cause.

CO: Because the proceeds are going to be donated to charity right?

SW: Exactly. That was the main reason why we auctioned it off in the first place so that it can do some good.

CO: All right. As you point out, this scarf was not -- people did not spend 7,550 euros because it's a beautiful piece -- as your mom says, it's not that attractive -- but what it means is quite amazing. Describe what is going on in the train delay scarf. What are all those colours and what do they mean?

SW: Basically for one year she chronicled her commute. She has been commuting to Munich from the outskirts for over 25 years now, and she had the feeling that her trains were getting delayed more and more -- but she couldn't pin it down because it was just a feeling. So at the end of 2017 she decided to knit a scarf to show how delayed her trains were in all of 2018. So she basically picked three colours: grey, because she still had grey wool that she needed to get rid of -- for when the train was basically on time up to five minutes of delay -- and then a light pink to show five to 30 minute of delay, then a bright red so that you can see it really clearly for every day when the train was either more than 30 minutes delayed one way or it was late more than five minutes both ways of her commute.

CO: It finished at 1.5 metres long, right?

SW: Yeah something around that.

CO: All right. So looking at it [chuckles] it's sort of a rhythm -- the chronicling of the late trains is kind of a rhythm between the pink and the grey and the red. And then there's this big huge stretch of red -- a big chunk of the scarf is actually this bright crimson. What happened?

SW: It was six and a half weeks I think of summer vacation -- so time that you really want to spend all your time on the train, and there was scheduled construction on her line -- and it was scheduled which is why some people said it wasn't fair that she put it all in red. But for her -- normally her commute is like 40 minutes. And during that stretch it was up to two hours -- one way each day.

CO: She puts how many rows of knitting in for each day that she is late for each part of her commute?

SW: It's two lines per day. You can see pretty clearly like how many days in a row [chuckles] things went good or bad basically both ways.

CO: I mean this has become quite the symbol, hasn't it? For what is going on in rail transport in Germany in general. How has Deutsche Bahn, the rail company that provides this transportation, have they commented on your mum's scarf?

SW: Yeah they commented on Twitter. Basically they said -- first of all that they really liked the idea -- thought it was really creative, which was a sentiment we got a lot. But then they also said that they know it [inaudible] a problem and that they were working on fixing it. But of course it's quite complicated than just fix something like that in a short time frame.

CO: Well as you know Germans are reputed to have the trains run on time -- so this sounds like they don't run on time these days?

SW: I think Deutsche Bahn wants it to be a lot better, and commuters also want that of course. But the problem is a known problem that there's just more infrastructure that needs to be invested in over time. But one thing that was important to my mom as well is that she has commuted for over 25 years and she still is commuting using the trains and she doesn't want to switch to her car -- everybody just has to pick their poison basically because if you go buy a car there would have been delays. So I think commuting is just not an ideal option basically.

CO: But people do forget, don't they? I mean sometimes you feel that the train is late all the time -- other times you can't remember last time the train was on time or late, but when you see it so graphically laid out on 1.5 metres of wool you can see that there are definitely some problems here.

SW: And it hasn't changed -- like after the construction she was hoping that it would get better, but as you can see in the scarf there is still lot of red there -- not as much red as during the construction but it still isn't all grey and pink. So it's a problem that doesn't just go away with one construction site over a couple of weeks and it's all fixed.

CO: And so Deutsche Bahn has appointed a crisis manager to fix the delays. Do you think that your mom's scarf had anything to do with that?

SW: I don't think so. [Chuckles] I think that would be -- I mean it was valued quite right, but I think that would be even too high.

CO: And what is your mom knitting these days?

SW: She's knitting her 2019 scarf actually -- she has started knitting her next train scarf because there's no planned construction this year, so she wanted to take another look and she has already used all three colours in the first couple of days of the year. It will be interesting to see how the 2019 scarf turns out.

CO: Should somebody, anybody, be sending their ends of crimson or pink or [chuckles] grey to help her out? Maybe the red, they should be sending her more.

SW: Yeah well she still has a whole bunch of grey so she's good on that, but everything else she'd take probably.

SW: Okay Sara we will look forward to seeing the 2019 train delays scarf. And it was good to talk to you. Thanks.

SW: Thank you so much.

JD: Go train delays. That was journalist Sara Weber whose mother knitted what has become known as the Train Delay Scarf. We reached Ms. Weber in Munich. And you can see a photograph of this scarf on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: Hopes are slim for Canadian sentenced to death in China, says advocate

Schellenberg death sentence

Guest: John Kamm

JD: Today, a Canadian man was sentenced to death for drug smuggling by a Chinese court. Robert Lloyd Schellenberg had appealed after he was originally sentenced to 15 years back in November. Schellenberg is believed to be the first North American to be sentenced to death in China. His aunt Lauri Nelson-Jones told As It Happens quote, "It is our worst fear confirmed. It is rather unimaginable what he must be feeling and thinking. It is a horrific, unfortunate, heartbreaking situation." Mr. Schellenberg's one-day trial comes at a tense time between China and Canada. The case was reopened following the arrest of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou. John Kamm has been advising Mr. Schellenberg's family. Mr. Kamm is the head of the Dui Hua Foundation, a humanitarian group that advocates for detainees in China. We reached John Kamm in San Francisco.

CO: Mr. Kamm have you been in contact with Robert Schellenberger's family since this Chinese court condemned him to death?

JOHN KAMM: Yes we have been in frequent contact by email.

CO: And how are they doing?

JK: Well I think they're in a state of shock and disbelief at this outcome at this judgment. I myself can't imagine how I would react to this kind of news. But anyway you know we are working together and trying to fashion a response.

CO: You have been in touch mostly with the aunt of Mr. Schellenberg.

JK: That's correct.

CO: Laurie Nelson-Jones. Is there anything you can say to her or to the family at this point that can give some encouragement or hope?

JK: Well I think we have to -- I am sorry but you know I'm not in the business of giving hope. In such cases, appeals are rarely successful by my calculation in less than 15 per cent of the time. Now if there is any reason for hope it is that the appeal court does not have to take up this trial quickly -- they can and often do, take months -- even years. So if in fact relations between Canada and China can get back on an even keel then I think it would be in certainly China's best interests not to carry out the execution.

CO: And you actually didn't think that this was going to happen -- that this is unusual for someone from North America to get the death sentence, is that right?

JK: Unusual...it's unheard of. It's never happened. So it's more than unusual I think. Moreover there are like three people who have been convicted in the crime -- of these three, Schellenberger is the only one to have been sentenced to death. My question would be, where is the new and compelling evidence? Remember this same court heard the evidence and sentenced him in November.

CO: To 15 years. 15 years in prison was his first sentence.

JK: From what I can see the only new evidence that's being introduced is that there was a phone call between Mr. Schellenberg and one of the principals. Well...they've had his phone for four years. How can it be they're only discovering now that this phone call took place?

CO: Can you just give us a quick review as to what happened? How Robert Schellenberg ended up in prison in the first place?

JK: Well he was on a trip to China. He entered as a tourist. He says he was duped into this -- he was tricked. He apparently went to a warehouse to buy tires -- to ship the tires to Australia. And he went to another warehouse -- and it is alleged, put packets of methamphetamine in the tires.

CO: And he was accused of attempting to ship 500 pounds of methamphetamine to Australia.

JK: Yeah. Again, he was not caught with any drugs on him. And he insists that he didn't know anything -- that in fact he was tricked into this.

CO: So you say there this telephone call they're now bringing in as the new evidence. The only other thing that has occurred between the first sentence and this one is of course Canada's diplomatic row with China over the arrest of Huwaei executive Meng Wanzhou. Do you feel that there's no doubt that these are related events?

JK: I certainly suspect so, but I can't say for sure.

CO: Because officially the Chinese don't say that there is no connection but these arrests -- what's happened to Mr. Schellenberg, the swift reaction from the court as you pointed out -- how quickly he had this judgment, and the death sentence would indicate that there is something going on.

JK: Well you know I think suspicions are well-founded.

CO: What can Mr. Schellenberger's family do now?

JK: They have to appeal. They have a pretty good lawyer -- I know the man, he's quite good. And they should try to get their lawyer to use every means possible to delay the appeals trial as long as possible.

CO: What should Ottawa or the Canadian government be doing?

JK: I would certainly make very clear if it hasn't already been done so, that this judgement could have very serious consequences for relations between the two countries.

CO: How likely is it do you think that China will actually carry out this death sentence if it should stand?

JK: So appeals are successful -- in all cases appeals are successful -- in less than 15 percent of cases. And in terms of review of death sentences, they are successful in less than 10 percent of the reviews. So do the math.

CO: And so he will -- there's a strong likelihood that he will be put to death.

JK: I won't go that far. I would like to think that my friends in China will really come to their senses and stay their hand. I think there's a chance of that. Otherwise I wouldn't be fighting so hard. I do think there's a chance that he will be spared. It's a chance. Is it likely? I can't say. But there is a chance and it is necessary to work very very hard to make sure this tragedy does not happen.

CO: And it requires political pressure from Ottawa.

JK: It requires political pressure, moral pressure. It requires interviews and statements. It requires the acts of other countries. It certainly requires the act of the United Nations, which has specifically called out countries for executing people for drug offences which is a nonviolent crime. So this battle must be waged on many fronts. Okay.

CO: Mr. Kamm I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JK: Thank you. Bye.

JD: John Kamm is the executive director of the Dui Hua Foundation. We reached him in San Francisco. We have more on this story on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Pizza for the neighbours

JD: Pizza cannot fix everything, but Canadian air traffic controllers do hope it will help. The partial government shutdown in the United States has thousands of American air traffic controllers working without pay. Mike Cormier is an air traffic controller in Edmonton and he thought that was unfair -- and so he sent some pies to his counterparts in Anchorage. Mr. Cormier explained his idea to the CBC in Edmonton.

SOUNDCLIP

MIKE CORMIER: I was at work and I talked to one of the guys from Anchorage and I knew that there was a shutdown or whatever they're doing in the States. And I had heard that they weren't getting paid and I didn't think that was -- actually I didn't believe it so I asked one of the guys -- and they said, no we're not getting paid -- we'll get back pay but we're not going paid right now. And I thought well it would be nice if I could just do something to show them that not everybody has forgotten that they're out there working when other people aren't. So I tried to arrange to get them some pizza. I'm sort of a pepperoni guy, but he picked I believe Hawaiian, meat lovers, some sort of barbecue chicken, and the other one was feta cheese and something. The pizza place listed a reindeer pizza and we had to actually talk them out of ordering reindeer pizza. One of the things is in Canada we're fairly secure. You know you can't just walk into an air traffic control centre obviously. In the U.S. it's actually at a little bit higher level than it is here -- so we had one of our supervisors actually contacted the centre and talked to their shift manager or somebody to that effect saying you know we'd like to send you some pizza -- if pizzas show up at your front door, are you going to let them in?

JD: That was Mike Cormier, an air traffic controller based in Edmonton. And since Mr. Cormier sent the pizza, the idea has taken flight so to speak. More than 300 pizzas have been received by American controllers from their neighbours to the north.

[Music]

Disney tactile books

Guest: Rebecca and Emmanuel Blaevoet

JD: I think it's safe to say that Mickey Mouse is among the most recognizable cartoons in the world. You don't have to hear his voice, you don't have to speak whatever language he's being broadcast in, to know him at a glance. That however only works if you can see him. A Windsor, Ontario couple is now working to fill-in that gap for kids with visual impairments. Their company Tactile Vision Graphics specializes in braille books and graphic design for the blind community. They're tactile picture books will bring Mickey Mouse and his Disney friends into focus for kids who cannot see them. We reached Rebecca and Emmanuel Blaevoet in Windsor, Ontario.

CO: Rebecca what does it mean for blind or sight impaired children to have these picture books?

REBECCA BLAEVOET: Well I think one of the things that -- it's easy to sort of lose sight of if I can use the term, is that 100 percent of information is more than no information. So kids who can see get used to watching films, and flipping through books they can pick up in you know just about any shop -- and for blind children and blind adults you know these characters have never been accessible before at all.

CO: You yourself are blind.

RB: I am.

CO: So when you have one of these tactile picture books, how does it work? What do you do in order to I guess see the illustration?

RB: Well the first thing I have to do when I'm touching a tactile picture is to already have an idea of what I'm expecting to feel because the immensity of the information that people take in visually just reinforces what something is supposed to look like all the time, whereas somebody who doesn't have that starting point you know it already helps to know kind of what it is we're expected to be looking at.

CO: So there's some braille description of what it is so you have some context for it when you're feeling the image itself.

RB: Yeah. We try to do that in our books anyway we try to put some braille description because we know that some people grow up with this -- young you know little children have a greater likelihood of growing up with some tactile art -- and adults are less likely to have that context. But then you have to -- you know I would have to feel the whole picture and try and touch the entire page and get a sense of where all the lines are and all the curves are -- and if there's some perspective happening in the picture or if there's not. So you know there's a lot of translation that has to happen in order to understand visual art tactfully.

CO: Why did you want to give Disney characters this life?

RB: Because they're so much a part of what Western people have grown up with. They are so much a part of our popular culture and they're so accessible to people who have full sight. We're all about equal access to equal information, and there's no reason why you know popular culture should be excluded from that -- it can't just be about economics diagrams and business cards and things -- there has to be some fun in it too.

CO: But there has to be some agreement, isn't there? Because Disney -- and in its 90 year history, this the first time it will have materials produced for the blind and visually impaired. How do you convince Disney that they had to do this?

RB: Well first my husband had to convince me. Emmanuel was the one who came up with the idea years ago. When we first started this company he said, we should get Disney -- and I said ahh you are crazy. Not that I didn't think our books were good but I thought, Disney? Are you kidding me? And so I made a couple of phone calls and talked to one person -- told her what we were trying to do and she right away gave me the phone number of another person and so that's when the back and forth started -- discussing what these would look like.

CO: And what they would look like -- again using that term -- but Emmanuel, your husband, he is on the phone, right? Hello Emmanuel.

EMMANUEL BLAEVOET: Hello.

CO: Rebecca is just describing how you're the one who actually creates these graphic designs. How do you turn characters like Mickey Mouse into illustrations? Into tactile pictures?

EB: First I have to put myself in the eyes of a blind person and try to get rid off every single line that is not part of the essence of the message. I have to choose myself where a line is essential or contextual.

CO: And so you're creating a kind -- you're pushing it out, is it something that is the outline of the Disney character that we feel?

EB: Yes it is just the outline, because if everything was erased everything would be at the same level and therefore it could lose [inaudible] a sense of meaning.

CO: But how much detail can you include then in that raised image?

EB: With our technique, quite a lot actually. Quite a lot.

CO: So Rebecca when you're feeling the image, say of Mickey Mouse, what does it feel like to you? What sense do you get about Mickey Mouse?

RB: So features -- you know ears. And eyes, depending on if it's a profile picture. You know the shape of the nose. The shape of the feet. The tail. You know we do a lot of other books that have animals and stuff in them and so you know you can get a fair sense of the shape of something by touching our designs.

CO: Mickey Mouse really is just a whole bunch of shapes isn't it? I mean the ears are shapes, and his nose is a shape, and everything about him and I'm thinking about this -- and his long tail. Mickey Mouse is just a bunch of shapes really.

RB: Well I just about anything is a bunch of shape that's why the more stuff that can be put into braille, the more art that can be put into braille, the better. Because everything is really a bunch of sort of lines and shapes -- unless you start to have a context for what it is you're reading. And the more exposure blind people get to tactile pictures, the greater facility we will have of understanding them. You know a flower. A face. I mean it's really hard to sort of even -- as Emmanuel says he really has to put himself in the place of a blind person and just kind of think, okay if I felt that line on a page would I think it was something important or would I think it was sort of filler?

CO: Rebecca what does it mean for you to bring these characters to life for children? I know you're a long-time fan of Disney.

RB: Yeah well it's really really neat. It's just...it's super cool. It's fabulous to see how Disney has sort of bought into this, but it's also amazing to hear comments from blind adults that I've known my whole life who say, I've never known what those characters look like -- this is going to be so exciting. It's nice to know -- you know to hear from other people that what you're doing is meaningful.

CO: Well, well done both of you Rebecca and Emmanuel. And thank you for speaking with us and describing this.

RB: Thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

CO: Bye bye.

EB: Thank you. Bye.

JD: Rebecca and Emmanuel Blaevoet are the design team behind Tactile Vision Graphics. Their first tactile Disney picture book featuring Mickey and Minnie Mouse will start printing at the end of the month. We reached the Blaevoets in Windsor, Ontario.

[Music]

Blood sausage

JD: Raul Escuin is tapping into a whole new culinary vein. The Spanish woodworker might seem like an unlikely food star. He is from a remote town where almost no one lives and he has never apprenticed with a chef. And yet Senor Escuin does have a unique ingredient, and that ingredient is himself. You see Senor Escuin is making a traditional local blood sausage called morcilla. His recipe has been handed down for generations. Rice, onions, salt, spices, and pig's blood are packed into a casing. But with the help of a local nurse, he switches out the pork plasma for the stuff that comes pumping out of his own veins. And then he cooks himself up and serves himself to himself over a delicate little piece of toast. And I know what you're thinking, but Senor Escuin says quote, "It just doesn't seem that weird to me." Which may go some way to explaining why he is suggesting his sui-generis tube steaks to vegans. He admits quote, "Yes I know that humans are animals," but "if it doesn't involve animal abuse, then it truly conforms to the vegan ethos. If you are vegan and want to eat morcilla then the only option you have is to make it with your own blood." And the unique sausage maker is now offering his services to other self-consumers. He says quote "So far everyone who has tasted their own blood sausage has been surprised by how tasty it is." Next he hopes to take his transfuse of cuisine on the road. He has tentative dates set up for workshops in Madrid and Barcelona where nurses will be ready to help others make a morcilla out of themselves. Aren't you pumped?

[Music]

Ottawa bus crash

JD: Commuters in Ottawa are trying to get back to their routines today after a deadly double-decker bus crash on Friday afternoon. Bus 269 slammed into a bus shelter at Westboro station, killing three people and injuring nearly two dozen more. A book of condolences is set up at Ottawa City Hall and online. And the investigation into what exactly happened is ongoing. As the city mourns many boarded the buses again, some sitting directly at the front of the second level in a vote of confidence. But for others the thought of that second floor was too much. Katherine Rose was on the bus that crashed last week. She spoke to CBC Ottawa this morning about what she saw.

SOUNDCLIP

KATHERINE ROSE: I was on the top floor. Second row from the front on the left. I was behind the lady in the military uniform and the young girl that were ejected from the bus. And I saw the roof of the transit station plow through the side of the bus. It probably covered about eight seats. And when I got up and climbed over the seat in front of me to call 9-1-1 -- it was silent under that roof. I thought everyone was dead. It was awful.

REPORTER: How did you get off?

KR: Well I couldn't get off right away because there was a sheet of glass blocking the way. But a man from the OC Transpo came up and helped me cross over the glass. And I went down the stairs. But I don't think anybody else besides me and the girl next to me could actually do that.

REPORTER: Are you okay?

KR: Yes. Sorry, just a bit emotional.

REPORTER: What was the weekend like?

KR: The weekend was difficult. I was on the phone a lot with a lot of family and friends. And yeah.

REPORTER: And here you are.

KR: That's right. Feel bad for the victims.

REPORTER: Why are you getting on this bus this morning?

KR: Well because I just want the routine to continue, I don't want to change anything.

REPORTER: Did you think about maybe not going to work today?

KR: Sort of. But my injuries are minor, I just have bruising. And my injuries are in my head I think right now.

REPORTER: Do you have any thoughts about getting up on the second floor?

KR: Yes -- I'm not going up onto the second floor because I'll just remember what happened everywhere. You know like behind me there were lots people badly injured. Lots of blood. Lots of glass. The people underneath that transit roof -- they were horrendously injured. I'm still surprised that only a few people died. And those two women in front of me tha went through the glass, that was the worst thing I've ever seen. So I don't want to go up there because I'll remember what every seat looked like.

JD: That was Ottawa commuter Katherine Rose speaking with CBC Ottawa's Hallie Cotnam while boarding the bus this morning.

[Music]

Part 3: Painting stolen from Belgian church days before appraisal might be a Michelangelo

Cannabis lottery

Guest: Mark Goliger

JD: In order to open a legal cannabis retail shop in Ontario you have to be really really lucky. Ontario's provincial government ran a lottery to decide who could operate the privately-run brick-and-mortar pot shops. Had 16,000 applicants -- 25 hit the jackpot. Clint Seukeran from Brampton was one of the lucky ones. He runs a coconut water importing business and has zero experience in the cannabis industry. He spoke to CBC Toronto's "Metro Morning" today.

SOUNDCLIP

CLINT SEUKERAN: I was very happy to be selected as one of the successful applicants to be part of this new movement in Ontario. The fact is that I haven't been in the industry, but I always have been very interested and very a huge fan of it. You know my lack of experience doesn't really preclude me from being successful in the cannabis industry. And my interest has always been there since the decriminalization and legalization of marijuana in Canada.

JD: That was Clint Seukeran, one of the winners of Ontario's cannabis lottery. Mark Goliger applied, he was not as lucky as Mr. Seukeran. Mr. Goliger is the CEO of National Access Cannabis which operates cannabis retail shops across Western Canada. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Goliger the man we just heard has no experience in the cannabis industry, he says that. He is a big fan though -- but he runs a coconut water company, and well he's got one of Ontario's very few legal pot shop licences, what do you make of that?

MARK GOLIGER: Well he's an applicant that has the ability to get into the licensing stream and so congratulations to you Clint. In the interest of the weather outside it's going to be tough sledding to create a successful operating store for anybody including a company like ours that already has a footprint outside of Ontario -- to be able to make something successful by April is going to take a lot of work and a lot of energy.

CO: He says a lack of experience doesn't preclude his ability to be successful. What do you say to that?

MG: Well he may have some fantastic business acumen that he has acquired over the years in other industries and other business, and so some of it will be transferable to cannabis. But also cannabis is a bit different -- and especially cannabis retail where we're dealing with a controlled substance that is very heavily regulated, where we have to buy from a control board which means that some of the margins are dampened with an extra middleman that is involved, and in order to turn a profit and get a return on Clint's investment you have to run a very efficient and effective operation in order to succeed. And there are certainly a lot of special skill sets or special things that you have to do with cannabis retail to make sure that you achieve on that. We've certainly learnt from a bit of the school of hard knocks in western Canada to refine our business systems. Someone who's dealing with a one off store is going to have a much harder time of it.

CO: What were the resumes of some of the other winners of the 25 who actually got drawn from this? Was Clint Seukeran -- was he kind of typical of it?

MG: Some people are in physical therapy, they are in corporate jobs let's say. And I think that this is a very entrepreneurial one off for these people to try and make a store successful in a short turnaround time of between now and April.

CO: I think one of the successful people, applicants, runs a dry cleaning company. Now how many of them had any experience at all with cannabis?

MG: Well that's a good question and when you look at the applicants -- just go down the names, most of the applicants applied as a sole proprietor. You would think that people would put in their application under a corporate structure to protect themselves from the liability of the controlled substance. So about 64 percent did it as sole proprietors. I'm guessing that this was just the same as Lotto 649 where they bought a lottery ticket in hopes that they could convert it into some sort of windfall for them. I don't think that many of them had any cannabis experience much less any business experience.

CO: I think it is actually [chuckles] the odds of winning this were way slimmer than actually Lotto 649 tickets so I think you're better off to have bought a lottery ticket.

MG: Well congratulations Clint.

CO: But basically if people don't have experience in this, what are they expected to do by April? How up and running are these enterprises supposed to be?

MG: Well if you look at the first 25 I would say that most of them would have to partner with some third party that has experience in order for them to even get through the application process let alone have a store open on April 1st. But if they're going to try and do it on their own, it's a very steep uphill climb to be able to reach that summit by April 1st. And I'm guessing that many of them will turn over and not get through the application process and it will go to people on the waiting list.

CO: How much money do you have to have in order to start in the business?

MG: So between the upfront expenses to get a retail store open and having the ongoing working capital or operational cash flow to deal with buying inventory, getting staff, carrying your lease, you're looking at between -- if you did it very cheaply, 500,000 dollars. And if you did it with kind of a balanced approach probably closer to 750,000 dollars.

CO: The same time there are huge fines if you do take one of the licences and you don't have your operation up and running by April 1st -- 12,500 dollars if you're not opened day 1, April 1st. And 50,000 dollars if you are not opened by April 30th -- so a lot of pressure to get. And obviously this reflects a desire to get these businesses up and running. Only 25 shops for what -- well that's 13 million people in Ontario -- and don't know what percentage of them want to buy cannabis, but probably more than 25 stores can manage right?

MG: As far as the amount of stores that Ontario should bear it's probably about one store for every ten to twenty thousand in population. And as far as the idea that they will face fines if they are not operational by April 1st or April 30th, I think that was intended to be a deterrent so that only people who had the wherewithal to get through that timeline would apply, but obviously that has not been the case -- and I think many people looked at this as a golden ticket and here we are today.

CO: So back to you and your experience and your application to join -- you threw your hat in on this lottery. Are you a bit peeved that you didn't get a licence?

MG: We certainly crossed fingers, crossed toes. We're disappointed that we didn't get one despite the odds. But we have a significant footprint in Western Canada, so that's where we will focus. Between now and then if there are any applicants out there that want some sort of support from a player who has experience we're happy to give it to them. What we want to make sure is that we have a successful legal industry that bites into the black market.

CO: And do you think that the price of pot in the stores, the shops, that Ontario will open will be able to be competitive with that illegal street price?

MG: Consumers willing to pay a little bit more for a legal product, knowing that it's safe and has a high quality control from Health Canada -- assuming that of course it is of good quality -- they will pay a premium for that. Can here, in Ontario, we have competitive prices? Absolutely we can.

CO: But in the meantime it's going to be a probably more convenient and cheaper too, getting your friendly-neighbourhood pot dealer.

MG: Unfortunately that is true Carol, yes.

CO: Will leave it there. Mr. Goliger thank you.

MG: Thank you very much Carol.

JD: Mark Goliger is the CEO of National Access Cannabis. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music]

Cabinet shuffle

JD: Justin Trudeau shuffled his cabinet today. The resignation of Scott Brison from the Treasury Board last week gave the PM all the excuse he needed to rework his team in the run-up to this fall's election. He explained the new lineup to reporters outside Rideau Hall this morning.

SOUNDCLIP

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU: This entire shift happens because we are losing a very strong and valued player who is choosing to spend more time with his family -- and we wish Scott (Brison) all the very best in his decision and in his next steps. But this really is an illustration of the depth of bench strength that Canadians sent to this government in 2015. And we're very excited about being able to just show how we step up as a team. And this opportunity to put strong performers in important files and continue to demonstrate our capacity to deliver on a broad range of priorities for Canadians with great people in place is part of the exciting thing about what I get to do as Prime Minister in working with this amazing team.

REPORTER: Hi Prime Minister [inaudible] Happy New Year. Jodi Wilson-Raybould, what did she not accomplish in her mandate letters to see her moved over and down into Veterans Affairs?

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I would caution anyone who thinks that serving our veterans and making sure they get the care to which they are so justly entitled from any Canadian government is anything other than a deep and awesome responsibility. The challenges of continuing to move forward on making sure that our veterans and their families are properly supported and our capacity to continue to close the seam in terms of working between a Department of National Defence and Department of Veterans Affairs will require a deft and steady hand in the Ministry of Veterans Affairs and Jody Wilson-Raybould has demonstrated through her ability to navigate through difficult files whether it's on medical assistance in dying or reform of our criminal justice system that she is extraordinarily capable of delivering on this file that is one of the core delivery mandates that the federal government has.

JD: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Ottawa addressing questions surrounding Jodi Wilson-Raybould's move from Justice to Minister of Veterans Affairs. For her part, Minister Wilson-Raybould told reporters she is honoured to assume that role.

SOUNDCLIP

MINISTER JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD: I am proud to be the Veterans Affairs Minister. I had the opportunity to meet the Deputy Minister whom I will be serving with. And again I do not believe that anybody that serves in this role, that serves the veterans of our country, should be considered in any negative light. This is an extremely important role. Our veterans served our country, created the freedoms and the rights that we have, and they deserve significant and strong representation and that's what I'm committed to doing. What do I bring to the role? What would I say to veterans? I will bring the same work commitment, the same passion, the same desire, to ensure that we care for our veterans, that we hear our veterans, that we have compassion for veterans, and that we most importantly respect our veterans. And I will continue to do as much outreach to hear from them, to hear from them how we can serve them in the most appropriate and best way we can because that is what they deserve.

JD: Canada's new Minister of Veterans Affairs Jody Wilson-Raybould speaking outside Rideau hall earlier today.

[Music]

Carbon monoxide poisoning

JD: Dozens of parents in Montreal made a frantic dash to their kids' elementary school today. There were reports that dozens of young students were suddenly nauseous, vomiting, and dizzy. Carbon monoxide poisoning sent 35 children and eight adults to the hospital. School board officials said there was a carbon monoxide detector inside the school, it is unclear whether or not it was working. Montreal's fire chief said a faulty heating system might have been the source of the toxic leak. When she heard the news, Veronique Danis, rushed to the school to pick up her son.

SOUNDCLIP

VERONIQUE DANIS: I've had many phone calls because I don't watch the news. So my phone started ringing all the time so I looked, I'm like okay these are people I know. Then my neighbour came knocking on my door, she told me everything, so I jumped in my car and came to get my son. Oh God I gave him a big hug when I got inside -- inside the gym, all the kids in the gym are in great shape, everybody is good, the system is working really great. All the parents come in line and sign to get their children. I think they handled it very very well as well both schools. I mean because the school that receives all those children needs to be equipped too -- everybody reacted really quick. And the other school too. So yes I'm very satisfied with both schools -- the way they worked.

JD: That was Veronique Danis, a parent in Montreal speaking to reporters after a carbon monoxide leak sent 35 children and eight adults to hospital.

[Music]

Michelangelo painting

Guest: Jan Van Raemdonck

JD: A pastor at a Belgian church had a hunch about an artwork that hung in his parish. Now he may never know if that hunch was correct. The 16th century painting known as the Holy Family was donated to the St. Ludgerus church in Zele over a decade ago. No one thought much of it, but Pastor Jan Van Raemdonck had a strong suspicion that it was painted by Michelangelo. Its authenticity was about to be assessed and then the painting was stolen. We reached Pastor Van Raemdonck at his church in Zele, Belgium.

CO: Pastor Jan have you heard anything new from the police? Do they have any leads?

JAN VAN RAEMDONCK: Yesterday I had two leads -- one of a lady who told me that a few weeks ago a man with the same clothing as the man who tried to enter the church Thursday has been seen in a chapel. And another one told me that almost the same man has been seen with a great package on Friday, in the morning, not so long after the theft.

CO: And so you've turned all that new information over to the police have you?

JVR: Yes. Of course. I'm very glad that I had those tips.

CO: How did you first learn that the painting called the Holy Family -- how did you learn that it was stolen?

JVR: Friday morning two ladies who normally puts the flowers at the altar called me that the back door was opened and that the painting was gone. So I was very surprised. First I thought it was a joke, but then I saw reality.

CO: Was anything else stolen?

JVR: No really nothing.

CO: How large is the painting? How difficult would it be to take?

JVR: As it is a painting on wood it's quite heavy -- some 80 till 100 kilo.

CO: And it is a heavy and awkward. And describe it for us. What is the picture of?

JVR: The picture is of the Holy Family: Mary, Joseph, the sleeping child Jesus, and Saint John the Baptist as a little child.

CO: What is it about the painting that made you start to wonder if it was done by Michelangelo?

JVR: At first I only thought it was a very beautiful painting and a very old one as it is painted on wood. But then someone told me, oh there's a rumour they say that it could be of the circle of Michelangelo. So I started to study about it and I found out there was another painting of Michelangelo in Uffizi in Florence which has the same topic but different concept -- a little bit different, not so much. And then I found that that title is the Madonna of Silence "Madonna del Silenzio" or Lady of the Silence. And once I knew that title I could find many many other paintings which were very similar from Marcello Venusti -- and also one drawing from Michelangelo which is really from him from the collection of the Duke of Portland in Welbeck in England -- so there were many elements to say that this could be a Venusti or a Michelangelo. But the more I studied about it and I read books and so, I thought that this must be really a work of Michelangelo.

CO: You contacted a Michelangelo expert who was coming to see the painting and to begin the determination if it was a Michelangelo, is that right?

JVR: Yes. The first expert who came here I told him that at the book of the Gospel you can only read the first letter. The letter are unreadable. And I thought it was a B so it could be the beginning of the main conversation let's say of the Gospel of Matthew. But he said, no no it is not out [inaudible] it's the B of Buonarroti -- the family name of Michelangelo.

CO: Wow! [Chuckles] It must have been quite a moment when he said that to you.

JVR: Yes -- he was really convinced that this was a Michelangelo.

CO: And so it takes a long time to determine if something is an original Michelangelo or original anything. So were you keeping it a secret? Did people know that your church might be holding a Michelangelo?

JVR: Some people in the board of the church, some friends, my family, knew that I was writing a book about Michelangelo and this painting -- but mostly I didn't say it to people because it's so dangerous.

CO: What would it be worth? Do you have any idea?

JVR: If it's real Michelangelo -- it's about a 100 to 400 million dollars. But I'm not sure about that.

CO: But it's -- whatever it is, it is a big chunk of change that it's worth this painting.

JVR: Yes it is absolutely.

CO: But at the same time -- just to go back to what may have leaked out, do you think that people knew? Do you think it was somebody who knew? An inside job or was it a professional thief -- what are the theories of the, police theories, at this point?

JVR: I was maybe a little bit stupid to preach about the painting during the Masses of Christmas -- I haven't told it wasn't Michelangelo but I told that it was a very beautiful, old painting, maybe Italian, maybe from the 16th century, and maybe someone thought, oh in that case I will take it from me and I can sell it to an antique seller. So maybe it's not because of I think it's Michelangelo that it is stolen, just because of I have said it is really great work.

CO: And meanwhile are you still writing your book? Your fictional book based on this painting.

JVR: Yes -- since let's say June I was writing about this painting. But I hope to visit Florence once more and also contact several experts who could do scientific tests on the painting and then afterwards I would finish my book.

CO: And will there be a plot twist that the painting gets stolen?

JVR: Yes. I think -- I am novelist so I have a very vivid imagination -- and in any case I will say that the painting is found back or something.

CO: All right. We will leave it there. I do hope you get your painting back Pastor Jan.

JVR: Thank you very much. I hope so too.

CO: Thank you. Bye bye.

JVR: You're welcome. Bye.

JD: Jan Van Raemdonck is a pastor at the Saint Ludgerus church in Zele, Belgium. And that is where we reached him.

[Music]

Chicken crossing

JD: No one seems to know why these particular chickens decided to cross the road. But everyone was wishing they would stop crossing it. Last week residents on the Saanich Peninsula in Victoria, British Columbia, had their hands full rounding up 101 chickens that were running loose through the streets. And no one, neither farmer nor backyard poultry raising hipster, has stepped up to claim them. So now they're being put up for adoption. Ryan Vantreight is the general manager at Longview Farms where dozens of the chickens were brought after being found nearby. He spoke to Victoria CBC reporter Sterling Eyford about the wayward flock.

SOUNDCLIP

[Chicken sounds in background]

RYAN VANTREIGHT: They had to have shown up somewhere in the mid-morning here because we came to the farm around 7:30 and police were already directing traffic, trying to keep everybody safe, because they are out here on Wallace Drive just on the side of the road. There is about 30 of them down here. And 20 or so down the road further. More are released in Sydney. There is more on Central Saanich road.

VOICE: I just drove by and there was about 6 or 7 just about, I don't know, a couple hundred metres from here down the road. What do you think happened?

RV: They are old layers, they are in their molting stage so it looks like they're you know they're past their prime kind of deal -- so the worst case scenario someone's decided to drop them off because they didn't want to dispatch them themselves. Best case scenario it's a prank that somebody has pulled. So either way it's not good for the community to have to deal with it but we're dealing with it as best we can. You know in Central Saanich we've dealt with pigs on the loose, we have dealt with cows on the loose, chickens on the loose isn't too far from the reality of our life out here.

VOICE: I think even once an ostrich on the loose.

RV: Yeah that's right. We've had it. [Laughs] That's right. SPCA, I think, or animal control are coming to come out and wrangle them up and hold them onto them and see what the next stage is. You can even see they've laid about six eggs since we've been here. So they're still producing eggs but that's the confusing part is why would someone just pull over and let them out? Motivation is kind of an interesting question here.

VOICE: So what is going to happen to the eggs that have been laid? [Chatter and chicken sounds].

JD: That was Ryan Vantreight of Longview Farms in Victoria, British Columbia, speaking to CBC's "All Points West" yesterday, about the chickens on the run in the city.

January 14, 2019 Episode Transcript

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