Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2019

The AIH Transcript for August 26, 2019

Hosts: Helen Mann and Ramraajh Sharvendiran

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello I'm Helen Mann.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: Good evening. I'm Ramraajh Sharvendiran. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

RS: Tonight...

HM: Slow burn. You've heard about the fires in Brazil but while the world's attention is there, a million and a half hectares is also burning in Bolivia -- our guest tells us what she fears will be lost and what she hopes can be saved.

RS: Making amends. After the University of Glasgow uncovers how much the school profited from the slave trade it pledges to spend millions for research into slavery and our guest hopes it's just the start of a reckoning across Britain.

HM: About face. Billboards with political leader Maxime Bernier's image and the words "Say NO to Mass Immigration" caused widespread anger -- at first the billboard owner refused to take them down but now he's reversed course.

RS: Jiffy Cabs! St. John's taxi dispatcher Rodney "Cocker" Dunn answered the phone with that signature greeting for a quarter of a century -- but now he's hanging up his headset. He tells us about The Good, The Bad, and the slightly kooky calls he's fielded.

HM: Corvid interest. Researchers discovered that crows living in cities have higher levels of cholesterol than their rural counterparts because of the availability of fast food.

RS: And a half-baked proposal. Boris Johnson suggests the US should allow in Melton Mowbray pork pies under any new trade deal -- just like in Thailand in Iceland. That's left pie producers whose perishable wares are local only wondering how their delicacies would make it stateside. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that knows that the lard works in mysterious ways.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: All eyes are on the Amazon fires in Brazil, but Bolivia is burning too

Bolivia Fires

Guest: Jhanisse Vaca-Daza

RS: The fires in the Amazon rainforest have captured the world's attention and now much needed funds from the world's leaders. In France this weekend the G7 committed to spending 20 million US dollars in emergency aid for South American nations affected by the fires. That's about 26.5 Canadian. And today Prime Minister Justin Trudeau topped up that pledge. Here he is speaking from Biarritz, France.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: People around the world are shocked and devastated to see the Amazon engulfed in flames. Today alongside other G7 countries, Canada is stepping up to fight the fires in the Amazon. Canada is offering to help by sending water bombers as well as a financial contribution of 15 million dollars.

RS: Much of the global attention has been focused on the fires in Brazil but neighbouring Bolivia is fighting fierce blazes of its own. Jhanisse Vaca-Daza is a Bolivian human rights activist who has been in communication with colleagues on the ground. We reached her at the JFK International Airport in New York City on her way home.

HM: Ms. Vaca-Daza describe for us just how bad the fires are in Bolivia right now?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: At the moment, It's been recorded on the news that we have one million five hundred thousand hectares that are in completely affected by the fires. Up until the moment when we started this campaign to let the international community know that we needed their help we were at only six hundred thousand. So we're talking about losing the amount of forest that we would normally lose in a year that we've lost in the space of eight days.

HM: And these are fires that are actively burning?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: They are actively burning. They continue to burn. I have just heard Minister Juan Ramon Quintana say on national news that we don't need to declare a national disaster but we are talking about one point five million hectares that have been lost. And my team is on the ground standing rivers where a movement of citizens that focus on non-violence. We have a lot of the team in -- which is the border with Brazil where there is above a thousand hectares that have been lost and there's only 12 firefighters and we don't even have the proper resources.

HM: I just want to clarify a little bit about the terrain we're talking about. The area that is burning -- the type of land that's involved.

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: Sure. So we have fires in the Chiquitano forest. Chiquitano forest is in the centre and east side of Santa Cruz -- this area you can say that it kind of gives birth to the Amazon forest which then extends itself towards the north and the east all the way into Brazil. So we have two areas that are completely connected to each other. They're completely interdependent. And they're very important as well in terms of water. Our water resources flow from this area and one of the problems that Bolivia has is as we are a landlocked country.

HM: Why do you think there hasn't been the same attention paid to the fires in Bolivia as the ones in Brazil?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: I understand that the president of Brazil at the moment has had very anti-environmental policies as well as his speech being very aggressive against environmental activists to whom I sympathize. And I know that he's being called the Trump of South America. So it makes clear sense that if you hear about fires in the Amazon you would think of attacking his government and only holding him accountable. But you have to hold everyone accountable -- not just the people that you dislike. In Bolivia our government has been very successful at painting Evo (Morales) as a president that is pro-environment. If you remember the first law in the history of the world that gave rights to the environment and Mother Earth and not only humans but all living beings was passed in Bolivia I believe in 2012. But if you look at the actual economic policies within the country they have been very aggressive against the environment.

HM: So when the rest of the world has this image of President Evo Morales as a environmental champion is that an inaccurate view then?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: It is an inaccurate view. And I would like to make it very clear that for all of us Bolivians in this moment we are not fighting Evo Morales. We are fighting the fires. But the government is being an obstacle to fight these fires.

HM: We know that there are fires every year. So why are these ones different? Why do you hold the government so accountable now?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: This year in July the 9th -- the supreme decree 3973 was passed which made it legal to use quote unquote "controlled fires to expand the agricultural areas into forest areas." And what we have to understand is that August is not only one of the hottest months of the year for us but it's a dry season. So when you use fires and we've seen over 1000 little centres of fires in the last two weeks and you don't have even a proper system to respond to an emergency of this size like the one we have right now you cannot just authorize this. There wasn't even the referendum as to whether we wanted to expand agricultural areas into the forest areas. They just passed it via a supreme decree. This has been something that has been progressively happening in Bolivia. If you look at Tariquia or Tipnis which are national parks in the south and centre of the country they've also been having emergencies this year that the government has not been helping.

HM: The G7 has just pledged 20 million dollars American to fight the fires in Amazon countries including Bolivia. And Canada has now pledged an extra 15 million Canadian dollars to do the same. How far will that money go?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: I would ask the government of Canada to please get it in touch with environmental groups in Bolivia, to please ask the Bolivian government what are the official numbers of the hectares that have been lost and of the help that is needed. The first thing that the international community should do would be to ask the Bolivian government to declare a national disaster and open customs and open the border for international help to go in before they give them that money because at the moment we have to understand that this is an electoral year. We have elections on the 20th of October. And we don't understand if we were to declare national disaster most of the government's budget should go to a disaster but right now it's going to political campaigns. So unless the government doesn't understand that they need to prioritize helping the fire areas, helping the people in those areas, and also once the fires are gone we need to put the forest back into shape -- we can't recover everything but we have to try -- it's going to be difficult for them to actually administer this the way that they should. And they should also be more transparent as to where the aid is going because even at the moment they say on the news that they brought so many help but people on the ground are not seeing.

HM: Evo Morales suspended his presidential campaign yesterday in light of the fires. Do you think that indicates that he recognizes this is now a bigger challenge than he's been willing to acknowledge in the past?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: Whatever Evo and his government says honestly I don't want this to become a personal thing. Activists are not going against Evo -- we want to see results. So whatever he says he has to show results otherwise we don't believe him anymore.

HM: And what about the long term impact to people who live in the affected areas? What do you expect that might be?

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: One of the things that I was trying to tell journalists today is that my team is also trying to get toys because they were telling me about children that have obviously seen these areas where they were born and raised that are now completely dead. The words I hear is that there's death all around -- wherever you look you see dead. So we're trying to get toys as superficial as that sound so that we can distract them because they're taking shelter in their schools. Many of their houses have been burnt. So morally this has been a big hit for Bolivians. We know that we barely make it to the news but it's very desperate when you see so much loss around you and you don't get any help. We have to defend our resources because if we don't do it then the alternative is no one.

HM: Ms. Vaca-Daza I hope that you're able to make some difference with the work that you're doing right now and thank you very much speaking with us.

JHANISSE VACA-DAZA: Have a great day. Thank you.

RS: Jhanisse Vaca-Daza is a Bolivian human rights activist. We reached her in New York. For more about this story go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

People's Party Billboards

Guest: Randy Otto

RS: They started appearing last week in cities across the country. On billboards Maxime Bernier's face is front and centre -- along with the word "VOTE." Next to that sits the People's Party of Canada logo and a call to quote "Say no to mass immigration." The ads were paid for by the third party organization, True North Strong and Free Advertising. But they were sold by Pattison Outdoor Advertising. Backlash to the billboards was quick and it was fierce. And at first Pattison was willing to weather the storm. But now the company is taking the billboards down. Randy Otto is the president of Pattison Outdoor Advertising. We reached him today in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

HM: Mr. Otto what have these past few days been like for you and your employees?

RANDY OTTO: We've gotten some very strongly worded and opinionated calls from members of the public who want to express their opinion as it relates to the messaging on the ad and in some cases feel that Pattison is either advocating for the message or in the case of our decision to remove the ads advocating against the message.

HM: When did the calls start?

RO: Well the ad started going up in I think nine different cities across Canada this past week. It really was social media earlier in the week and then I got a number of calls from the media and that's I think when the phone calls started to really come to our switchboards from members feeling that the message on the ad was inappropriate and un-Canadian.

HM: Those were the initial calls that you got when the ad was up. Now it's coming down. What kind of calls are you getting now?

RO: Well now we're getting calls from people who have a very strong opinion in favor of the ad and feel that we are infringing on the public's right to freedom of expression. And I will say this you know I've spoken to one receptionist I just simply said if people are swearing, hang up.

HM: When you were first approached by True North Strong and Free Advertising Corp -- the third party organization that commissioned these ads -- what was your reaction?

RO: Well we took a look at the ads, we took a look at the message, and we spoke to them and said that in order for us to run them that we would require them to take ownership by clearly identifying who they were, who was the advocate for this message and how could they be contacted. Unfortunately they did not take calls and they did not speak to the press and did not speak to the issue on social media through until Sunday evening.

HM: What was your...

RO: I made the decision to take the ads down.

HM: Okay. What was your own initial reaction to the billboards?

RO: My own initial reaction was we've tried to be neutral. You know we recognize that there may be -- it was an advocacy ad it means that there is a point of view and it is during an election or will be very shortly and the leader of a political party -- and the party is on the board. So I erroneously expected that they would take ownership of the message and address it with the public and not let it fall back to Pattison to have an opinion about the message itself.

HM: Well just the fact though that you wanted -- that you were insisting that this third party True North Strong and Free Advertising would respond if there was a backlash suggests to me you were anticipating a backlash.

RO: Well I was expecting that they would speak to their point of view. We do put up advocacy advertising and we expect that we can direct the public's concerns about the message to the messenger.

HM: But the fact that you felt that was so important does that not suggest that you thought you know you had concerns about the content of the ad?

RO: I guess the question is, should I have seen the ad and said we just won't run it because we think it's controversial.

HM: Well do you think you should have not run it?

RO: I am questioning the decision at this point given what's happened over the past five days.

HM: You actually issued two statements around this. First of all you said that there was nothing about the ads that violates the ad standards of Canada code -- that you were a neutral party in all of this. And yet now, you are taking them down. What changed?

RO: The absence of the advocacy company -- the People's Party or Mr. Bernier speaking to the public. You know what would happen clearly by Sunday evening was that the public was directing their concerns to us and not to the people as they should be speaking to -- the people who paid for the ads.

HM: So had the advocacy group that paid for the ads or had Mr. Bernier spoken to this would the ad still be up?

RO: I think if they would have taken ownership of them I might have made a different decision.

HM: Mr. Bernier has blamed what he calls a totalitarian leftist mob for censorship of the billboards and many of his supporters as you said to us are implying that you acquiesce to that mob. So when you're getting those calls what are you saying to them or even to people who are listening now who are wondering about the choice that you made?

RO: My decision was made on Sunday evening in the absence of anyone taking ownership for the response from the public in addressing what has become a very strongly opinionated point of view. And clearly my decision perhaps fueled further debate. But you know they needed to take ownership of it and not leave it -- in their absence of any communication leave it to Pattison to address the public opinion.

HM: You have said you will be reviewing your policies because of this. What will you do next time if a potential client approaches you about a political ad?

RO: We will seriously debate whether we would want to take the ad at all no matter what the message is.

HM: So given how close we are to a federal election are you in a position now that you may end up refusing all political ads?

RO: I can only tell you that we have a review group that looks at these and I'll be meeting with them in the coming days to discuss our position on advocacy and political advertising in the future.

HM: Mr. Otto I really appreciate you taking time to talk with us. Thank you very much.

RO: You're very welcome.

RS: We reached Pattison Outdoor Advertising President Randy Otto in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. After we recorded that interview we reached out to True North Strong and Free Advertising for their response to Mr. Otto's claim that they haven't been answering people's calls. They did not answer our call.

[Music]

Mitch Podolak

RS: Folk music was Mitch Podolak's passion and he spent his life spreading that love across Canada. For years Mr. Podolak hosted "Simply Folk" on CBC and toured the world as a banjo player. But it was in 1974 that he discovered his calling -- founding the Winnipeg Folk Festival. Mr. Podolak died on Sunday. He was 71. In 2013 after Mr. Podolak was awarded the Unsung Hero Award from the Canadian Folk Festival he spoke with CBC Winnipeg show Up To Speed. Here he is talking about his career and the first time he heard American folk singer Pete Seeger.

SOUNDCLIP

MITCH PODOLAK: I come from a very political family and a very classically music oriented family. My Uncle Phil could play 20 instruments. And then my older sister said one day -- I was 13 -- she said I have these tickets to this folk music concert at Massey Hall. I don't want to go to that. She said come on, you'll have a good time. It changed my life. Something happened that day. I caught something -- I caught something from Pete. And there's a song called The Bells of Rhymney which is an argument between the rich merchant towns in Wales against the dirty old mining towns and they're arguing with the bells. Idris Davies wrote the song, Pete sang it. And on the way home I was asking my sister "well what does that mean?" It struck me and then from then on I started listening to him. Before I knew it not only did I like the banjo -- Pete Seeger doing political songs. I just liked the banjo period. Before I knew it I started reading about it and listening to it and I became quite a good amateur folk folklorist. And then when the chance came along I was working in this very building and there was an ad in the TV about would you like to do a centennial project. I always dreamed about doing a folk festival. Sometimes people say the Winnipeg Folk Festival a one-time only event. It was never conceived as a one-time only event. I conceived it as a way of earning a living and making a life. I started the Winnipeg Folk Festival -- I was 25 year old with a lot more balls than brains you know. When you don't know better you ask for things and sometimes people say yes.

RS: That was Mitch Podolak speaking to CBC in Winnipeg in 2013. The founder of the Winnipeg Folk Festival and many other festivals across Canada died on Sunday. He was 71.

[Music]

Melton Mowbray Pork Pies

Guest: Matthew O’Callaghan

RS: The Melton Mowbray pork pie -- a pastry baked only by 10 certified producers in England's East Midlands -- was minding its own business, not bothering anyone. Then out of nowhere yesterday it suddenly found itself at the heart of an international trade dispute. At the G7 summit in France, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson lamented that the pork pastry was exported to Thailand and Iceland but red tape was keeping it out of the United States. And he vowed to take a stand for the humble delicacy. The only problem with the Prime Minister's statement according to the chairman of the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association, it's just not true. We reached chairman Matthew O'Callaghan in Melton Mowbray, England.

HM: Mr. O'Callaghan for those who are unfamiliar with them -- what is a Melton Mowbray pork pie and what does it taste like?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: It's one of Britain's iconic foods. Chopped pork put into a hot water crust pastry and then baked in an oven freestanding and then a sort of bone stock jelly that is injected into the pie to fill all the cracks and crannies and then it's left to cool.

HM: The UK is known for lots of tasty meat pastries, what makes the Melton Mowbray so special?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: Well it's the history of the flavour. It's the art of really combining the succulent pork, the seasoning with this biscuity sort of golden sort of outer crust. Really it's sort of a bit like Stilton is the king of cheeses, the Melton Mowbray pork pie is the king of pies.

HM: And now the pie is being cited in trade talks. What did you think when you first learned about Mr. Johnson's remarks and his apparent championing of your pork pies?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: Well I was obviously quite surprised and shocked I mean. You know he was in the middle of the G7 summit. You know you've got the Amazon burning. You've got Iran. You've got China issues. Russia. Brexit. All these sort of things and in the middle of it Boris starts talking about the Melton Mowbray pork pie. I mean great! You know that he does that. I mean I'm very appreciative and you know bless him -- we'll pop up a box of pies in a post to him.

HM: Here's what Mr. Johnson said and I'm quoting him "Melton Mowbray pork pies which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland are currently unable to enter the US market because of I don't know some sort of food and drug administration restriction." Are your pies sold in Thailand?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: Not currently in -- not in Iceland. There was an attempt a while back -- I think we're talking about four or five years ago -- to look at exporting in very small quantities were exported to one or two countries but it really didn't take off. It's a delicate product that has a very short lifetime -- five days -- so not currently sold in Iceland or in Thailand.

HM: His point was I guess that he wondered why the pies weren't able to be exported into the United States. Are you currently interested in trying to get them there?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: At the moment no. I mean the focus is actually on consolidating the UK market. I suspect there is sort of also looking at Europe for example Ireland and places like that. But one day I dare say there would be the opportunity to look at the US market which could potentially be a huge market. What we don't want to do is to develop the market in the US for Melton Mowbray and get everybody ramped up about you know these delicious pies only for them to be made then you know in Ohio or Kansas or wherever. So what we would hope for is that if and when we do export then the protection that they currently have in the UK in Europe then would extend to the USA.

HM: Let's talk about that protection because I understand you personally worked quite hard to get this special status to protect the pies. What was involved in that?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: The Melton Mowbray pork pie was at risk of being lost. People were making it not according to the proper recipe. They were making it outside of Melton Mowbray. All sorts of things. So we applied to the European Union -- and I think it took about ten years for it to get approval which is probably one of the longest applications for protected food status that the Europeans have ever had.

HM: And what did that win do for Melton Mowbray producers?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: So it certainly boosted trade, it certainly boosted the production of pies, and the reputation of pies and Melton Mowbray. And we make about one hundred and ten million dollars in terms of food tourism on the basis of our pork pies and Stilton cheese.

HM: Prime Minister Johnson is a big champion of Brexit. What kind of challenges does Brexit present for your product?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: The problem is that if there's no-deal Brexit the following day then these products lose their protection in Europe. And so anybody can then make a Melton Mowbray pork pie or Stilton cheese or whatever within Europe. And that's quite a loss of lost business if that happens. So we are very concerned about what happens you know in terms of Brexit and certainly a no-deal Brexit, it would be disastrous for us.

HM: So Mr. Johnson on the one hand is giving you guys a boost. And on the other hand he's promoting Brexit which could cause you some really serious damage. What do you want him to know? What could he do that would really be helpful?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: I think it's really to say you know whatever happens let's look at continuing the protection of the UK's iconic products in Europe. We are a major exporting element of the British economy and we represent the icons of British food. So let's continue in some deal or other the protection of these products within the European Union. And of course reciprocally the protection of their products in the UK.

HM: Any plans in the future to ship any pies to US President Donald Trump?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: Well I was going to say I'm going to be talking to the producers tomorrow and see if we can get a box of pies over to Mr. Trump and to the White House and hope he likes them and develops a taste of them.

HM: I have to tell you Mr. O'Callaghan that here at As It Happens we are long-time fans of the Cornish pasty and we've done more than one story on what makes a championship pie. So if the Cornish party and the Melton Mowbray pork pie were to go head-to-head in a competition which would win?

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: We actually run here the British Pie Awards in Melton Mowbray. We have almost a thousand pies and pasties entering. And Cornish pasty has never become number one supreme champion -- although it's done very extremely well. However the Melton Mowbray pork pie has once become supreme champions so you know that's where I'll leave it.

HM: Very diplomatic of you. Thank you Mr. O'Callaghan. It's been a pleasure to talk to you.

MATTHEW O'CALLAGHAN: My pleasure. Have a nice evening.

RS: Matthew O'Callaghan is the chairman of the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association. We reached him in Melton Mowbray, England.

[Music]

Part 2: How the University of Glasgow plans to pay back $32M in slave trade profits

Glasgow Slave Agreement

Guest: Graham Campbell

RS: Last year a University of Glasgow report found that the school benefited significantly from the profits of slavery in the 18th and 19th century. The donations the university received back then would equal tens of millions of dollars today. Now the university is hoping to make up for that. At a ceremony Friday an agreement was signed between the University of Glasgow and the University of the West Indies in the Caribbean. The University of Glasgow says it will raise and spend 20 million pounds – more than 32 million Canadian dollars -- to make amends over the next 20 years. Graham Campbell is a Glasgow City Councillor of Jamaican descent. We reached him in Glasgow.

HM: Mr. Campbell you were at Friday's ceremony at the University of Glasgow where a Jamaican flag was raised on campus. What did it mean for you to see that in that moment?

GRAHAM CAMPBELL: It meant a hell of a lot to us. It's the first time as I am aware that we've had the flag flying from Glasgow University. So it was a very major privilege for us to see it happen. It was a very emotional day for us. You know as the University of West Indies and the University of Glasgow made this really historic memorandum and a beautiful plaque was unveiled and the university has made a very strong gesture of reparative justice.

HM: You are saying 'us' you brought two Jamaican students along with you. What does this agreement though actually mean for them?

GC: As they said in various discussions we've had over the weeks and actually on the day, it's very important that our ancestors as Jamaican people are recognised for the contribution that they made to the wealth that built those buildings and for the institutions that have resulted from them.

HM: What exactly is the University of Glasgow committed to doing with this 20 million pounds?

GC: Creating a Caribbean Studies Centre for the legacy essentially. It is going to be a Caribbean department for research. An establishment that will be costing about a million pounds a year over the next 20 years. It will do scholarships, it will do obviously specialists study, and its commitment I suppose to the truth and that's where it will start. It's not as some have reported it's been slightly misreported as we're giving 20 million pounds of reparations -- it's not quite that. But it's certainly not the last gesture of reparative justice so we expect a lot more. And what this has done is put the idea in British institutions -- particularly Scottish ones -- that we need to make reparation. We need to make amends.

HM: Tell me what you hope this move will achieve not just within the University of Glasgow but in broader terms beyond the university as well in looking at the past and addressing it?

GC: Scotland's historical memory shall we say has been one of organized forgetting about the legacy of slavery and colonialism. Scots have tended to see that as an English thing. Whereas actually Glasgow was very deeply involved in slavery and in fact was one of the main beneficiaries in fact the city became wealthy off the three commodities produced from enslaved Africans and plantations and they were tobacco, sugar, and cotton. And they were the chief substances that British ships were transporting along with enslaved Africans in the triangular trade. So you can't talk about those commodities without slavery. And Glasgow unfortunately in its history has done -- we have a legend of the merchants, the tobacco merchants, the sugar lords, the cotton kings, but we've forgotten slavery in that story. So this helps us to start redressing that imbalance in the telling the truth about the wealth that Scotland got from slavery.

HM: How does the university fit into that history? How did it benefit from its connections to the slave trade?

GC: The donors that contributed to the fund to build the building that's most famous was called The Gilbert Scott building -- I prefer to call it Hogwarts academy because I went there. But that building was built on a slave plantation owners land. I mean Robert Bogle who owns the Gilmorhill site and also the neighbouring plantation which was called the Kelvingrove. It's one of our major parks and museums now. But both of those were owned by people who made their money off plantation slavery in Jamaica. And so the plaque says that.

HM: The BBC spoke with an academic who questions this effort and said -- and I'm quoting -- "to suggest that people alive today are responsible for the sins of their ancestors is a step too far." As institutions like the University of Glasgow grapple with how to make up for past links to slavery -- what do you say to people like that academic who argue against either reconciliation or reparations or both?

GC: Well I would first of all say to that particular one I think I know which one you mean but I'd say go and read some more books. You're a profoundly ignorant person.

HM: Just so you think anybody who has that view is profoundly ignorant?

GC: I think that person is profoundly ignorant. I think it's not surprising that the general ignorance amongst the public because of course we weren't told that Scotland had this. You know if you went and did history -- even if you did the history of the Atlantic slave trade you weren't told that Scotland was part of it. You were told about Liverpool, Bristol, and London -- maybe if you did learn that in school. But most people didn't learn it in school. And if they did they didn't learn Scotland's part in it. So the point about being historically responsible -- we accept, in international law it's an accepted fact that reparations are paid in situations where countries pay for historic crimes of the past. The Japanese do it for the South Koreans -- for the comfort women. The Holocaust is reparatively paid for by Germany, Austria, and Switzerland still to this day and will be for some time. The international principle is accepted. So if that's true for the Holocaust how much true is it for a crime a holocaust that lasted for nigh 300 years which denuded Africa, West Africa, of its working age population -- its best youngest fittest brightest people, destroyed its economy, and then helped to build the new world and then repatriate that wealth back in the way that helped to improve country houses in the states in Scotland and helped to create the industrial revolution. You know you can't say that slavery didn't massively benefit the development of Western Europe and North America. So it's a matter of we've inherited that wealth. And I say 'we' I mean anybody who's a citizen who lives in these countries now -- including myself -- we inherit those buildings, those institutions, those structures, which derive their wealth from those things. What this study has shown that Glasgow did last year is that this is still current money. It's not past money. There are still scholarships now from those slave plantation origins which are paying for scientists, engineers, to do scholarships now. So it's not the past. People are benefiting from this money now.

HM: All right. Mr. Campbell it's been good to talk with you about this. Thank you very much.

GC: Thank you.

RS: City councillor Graham Campbell worked on the report on how the University of Glasgow profited from slavery. He spoke to us from Glasgow. If you'd like to see some pictures from the ceremony at the university, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Sidney Rittenberg

RS: Sidney Rittenberg saw both communism and capitalism up close. He was an advisor to Chinese leader Mao Zedong. And later after two stints in Chinese prisons, he returned home to United States to work for tech giants like Bill Gates. Sidney Rittenberg died on Saturday. He was 98. After being stationed in China with the US military as a linguist during World War Two Mr. Rittenberg stayed on. He soon became friends with Mao. When Mao Zedong assumed power in 1949 Mr. Rittenberg was given appointments in Chinese news and propaganda agencies. But he was not immune to the perils of politics. Mao suspected him of being a spy for the Americans and sent Mr. Rittenberg to prison not once but twice. And he spent 16 years in solitary confinement. In 2011 Sidney Rittenberg spoke to BBC TV about his impression of Mao.

SOUNDCLIP

SIDNEY RITTENBERG: He was always rather aloof. He moved slowly. He talked slowly usually. And he would say a sentence or so then he would stop and think and then say another sentence. When he was talking on a personal level he could be hilariously funny.

MICHAEL BRISTOW: Now this is a person whose policies directly led to the death of millions of people. Why you not more critical of him?

SIDNEY RITTENBERG: He was a great historical leader and a great historical criminal. I mean typical in my mind of the early Mao not that he didn't make mistakes in his -- he did, including cruelties. Including unnecessary destruction of revolutionary comrades and so on. But the predominant Mao in those days was an ingenious leader who organized and led revolution to success.

MICHAEL BRISTOW: You were accused of being a spy. You were sent to prison. Did you feel betrayed by the party?

SIDNEY RITTENBERG: I didn't feel betrayed. I felt just terribly hurt. It's like you have a sweetheart that you've been in love with for years and it's been a wonderful relationship -- all of a sudden she appears in court and accuses you of rape. It's just that -- how could this possibly happen. It was that kind of feeling.

RS: That would Sidney Rittenberg speaking to BBC as Michael Bristow in 2011. After his second prison term Mr. Rittenberg eventually left China for America and used his knowledge of Chinese politics and politicians to advise American business leaders on ways to best deal with the emerging superpower. Mr. Rittenberg died on Saturday. He was 98.

[Music]

Jiffy Cabs Retirement

Guest: Rodney Dunn

RS: For the last 40 years if you wanted a cab in St. John's you called Rodney Dunn. Of course you didn't know you were calling Rodney Dunn. For years he had been known to most people around town simply as "the Jiffy Caaaabs guy." Now he's hanging up his headset to retire from a career he started when he was just 14. And his loyal customers are saying a fond farewell. We reached Mr. Dunn in St. John's, Newfoundland.

HM: Rodney Dunn for those who've never had the pleasure, what did it sound like when people would call you for a ride?

RODNEY DUNN: Jiffy Caaabs!

HM: [Laughs] Jiffy Cabs. And that was your signature line.

RD: It was for years. At the end I changed it just to "caaabs" so everybody got a big kick out of that too.

HM: When you say at the end -- when did you just change it from using the word "Jiffy?"

RD: Ahh I just got lazy at the end I guess. [Laughter]

HM: What got you into this job in the first place?

RD: I was at a young age and I needed work and I was offered a job doing it so I said yeah I'll take it. And I didn't think I was going to stay at it. But I just kept going with it and here I am today.

HM: You were really young you needed a job?

RD: Well if I wanted anything in life -- my parents were...my dad was just cab driver. My mom was a stay-at-home mom, had 8 kids.

HM: Your dad being a cab driver was that like what got in the door?

RD: Oh yeah that's what got me in the door yes of course.

HM: And you were pretty young. Did they look at you and wonder if you could get the job done at that age?

RD: Oh I guess they did. But I guess they needed somebody to work there too as well. And they couldn't get nobody to do that job.

HM: Why not?

RD: Nobody really wanted it because it was a very high pressure job I guess.

HM: When did you start developing your signature style?

RD: Probably -- I don't know -- about 22 year -- about three or four years into Jiffy I got that I guess.

HM: And how did that evolve?

RD: Everybody is a fan of it because every time you go anywhere everybody just started to talk about the Jiffy cab guy. And I would be sitting in the room -- people start talking about the Jiffy cab guy. And I was there like "That's me!" [Laughter] And I didn't notice it. At first it was just me -- that's the way it was. And now it seems to be a big thing -- it seems to be all over Canada now.

HM: When you would go to like a restaurant or a bar or the grocery store, did people recognize your voice immediately?

RD: No. I had that happen to me one time -- one time that ever happened to me, I was driving a cab one night and a lady got in a cab and I said good evening ladies. And soon as I said that the lady said you're the jiffy cab guy. And it's the only time it ever happened to me in my lifetime.

HM: Wow. Now who are you hearing from over the many years on the phones? Give us an idea of the folks that became your regulars.

RD: A lot of senior citizens, a lot of younger crowd on the weekends, and a lot of university students.

HM: Now you said it was a difficult job. Lot of people can't do it. Why? What is so high pressure about that job?

RD: Well it's all about you know getting people looked after. Everybody who calls for a cab they want a cab fast. You know that -- everybody wants a cab, they want it fast -- they want it here right away. If you tell them five minutes, they want it there in four. And you tell them ten minutes -- [inaudible] so you got to try to get the work done really really quick.

HM: Are people rude?

RD: No -- well everybody can be rude. I can be rude. You can be rude. But not overly -- no no no.

HM: And you develop a relationship I would imagine with the drivers?

RD: Oh yes yes. I've been meeting quite a lot of interesting people over the years -- I worked with them and a lot of good people still work at taxi stand at night. They're great people.

HM: I guess you're also kind of a lifeline for the drivers when they're out there on the road too and you know we know it's not always the safest job. What was that like for you?

RD: Sometimes it could've been scary. Like I remember one time in particular this lady -- a lady driver -- I talked to her. Someone was fooling around with her radio and that. And went out for about a minute or two before I realized that this lady was really in trouble and somebody smashed her in the head with a rock and stole her money and took out down to the woods and left her there. And she was in a sad shape and all the other drivers got together to help her out and finally figured out where she was. And that was a long time ago and she's fine now. I don't know the lady personally. But just stuff like that is not very nice.

HM: Yeah. It would go home with you a story like that you'd be thinking about it afterwards.

RD: Oh no doubt. Yeah yeah. It'll be on your mind for a long time.

HM: Yeah. You worked your last dispatch shift on the weekend. How'd it go?

RD: Oh it was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. I was getting calls from all over the province -- all over Canada. I had one call from Australia.

HM: Australia!

RD: Yeah. And one lady moved from Newfoundland to Australia and she heard it on Twitter -- she read it on Twitter that I was retiring so she called me up.

HM: Did any of those people call for a cab?

RD: No -- well we had lots of calls for cabs on Saturday night but we had more calls to congratulate me Saturday night and say good luck in your adventures. And we took calls.

HM: I understand you heard from one of the local celebrities Mark Critch from "This Hour Has 22 Minutes."

RD: Yeah Mark called me and wished me good luck. I knew Mark's parents. They were customers for years as long as I worked there and long before I even got there they were their customers at Jiffy.

HM: Right. We have a sense sometimes I think when you come to St. John's that people really almost everybody knows everybody. Is that an exaggeration?

RD: That's an exaggeration. Everybody thinks everybody knows everybody but like I don't even know my neighbour. [Laughs]

HM: So what does it mean to you then to hear from these people all over the province that just want to hear your voice?

RD: I was overwhelmed. I got to tell you I was overwhelmed. I couldn't believe the attention it drew. I could not believe it.

HM: Well what do you think is the reason that your tone and your address became kind of well-beloved?

RD: I have no clue. I guess...I don't know. I guess I just treated them all with respect. Like every now and then everybody gets upset -- especially at their job and stuff like that. But for the most part I treated everybody with respect and I tried to be friendly to them and try to make him you know laugh and stuff like that. So that's just my nature I guess.

HM: Why is it time for you to step away from the dispatch desk?

RD: I've been doing it for 39 years and I don't know. Right now I just need to get away from that for a while. I might even go back someday you never know. But right now I'm just going to stay away for a while.

HM: So what are your plans for this sort of retirement?

RD: I'm just going to drive a cab for two nights a week-- that's it.

HM: Do you feel sorry for the person replacing you because it sounds like they got big shoes to fill?

RD: I kind of do feel sorry for them because I know what he's in for. [Laughter]

HM: Is he going to have to develop his own call line?

RD: Yeah he's going to have to get his own. Don't try to take mine. You have got to work on your own skills.

HM: Right. Listen Mr. Dunn I really appreciate talking with you. Good luck in the future and I hope you enjoy those couple of nights out in the cab.

RD: Thank you very much and thanks for calling.

HM: Before I let you go, can I hear it one more time? I'm going to call you right now. [Makes ring sound]

RD: Jiffy Caaabb!

HM: Thank you.

RD: It'llbe there in a jiffy. [Laughter]

RS: Rodney "Cocker" Dunn is retiring after 25 years as a Jiffy Caaabs guy or dispatcher. We reached him in St. John's.

[Music]

James Avramenko

RS: James Avramenko is on a mission to purchase Facebook friend list. Every week the Regina man chooses one more person to unfriend. He calls that person up tells them why he's unfriending them and makes a podcast about it. This morning he spoke to CBC's Morning Edition in Regina with host Stefani Langenegger and explained how the idea got started.

SOUNDCLIP

JAMES AVRAMENKO: I had seen a couple of my friends make those really long winded declarations of getting off of Facebook and simultaneously I'd always wanted to do a podcast. I was constantly searching for kind of my idea and everything just kind of conglomerated with that. I mean I've always been a very active unfriender. [Laughter] I've always really sounded quite cathartic to sort of get people off the list.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: When do you do it James? What's usually your motivation for unfriending?

JAMES AVRAMENKO: You know it's just somebody who maybe I met once and haven't seen then you know. I can't tell you how many times I especially in my early 20s where I would go out and I'd meet people and you know "add me on your Facebook" and then we would never see each other again.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: How many more friends have you got to unfriend?

JAMES AVRAMENKO: Currently this morning I am at 527. [Laughter]

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: What does that say that people could have hundreds of friends -- what does that say about what we even mean by that word anymore?

JAMES AVRAMENKO: I think that we've completely lost context of what friendship and a relationship is. I guess you know one of the deep lessons that I've taken from it is that you change people's lives by changing your own life and you change your own life by having humane contact with as many people as you can.

RS: James Avramenko speaking to CBC Regina host Stefani Langenegger earlier today.

[Music]

Crows and cholesterol

RS: And now some news out of the states that might ruffle a few feathers. Scientists at Hamilton College in New York have studied crows and discovered that urban birds have higher cholesterol than those living in the countryside. And who is to blame for this condition in the city crows? You guessed it -- we humans and our fast food. Not only do we stuff our faces with garbage meals, we leave the leftovers lying around for the crows to stuff their beaks with. Okay you might wonder how these biologists know for certain that we're the ones clogging up the birds' cholesterol. And it's not because the birds are regularly chowing down on citified worms that are so dense in fat they rival French fries. Well the scientists put their hypotheses to the test known as a quote "cheeseburger supplementation experiment." They left McDonald's cheeseburgers near crows' nest in rural New York and then compared the cholesterol levels of those birds to a nearby country crows who were not fed the fast food. The rural crows who murdered the burgers had like the city crows higher cholesterol. Now before you worry about the heart health of these burger-loving crows, Andrea Townsend who led the research tells New Scientist she has no qualms about her experiment because elevated cholesterol doesn't appear to affect crows as it does humans. In fact it even boosted the body condition of their nestlings. So you may want to step away from the deep fryer because those supersized fries are strictly for the birds.

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

August 26, 2019 Episode Transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode