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The AIH Transcript for July 13, 2020

Hosts: Nil Koksal and Ali Hassan

Prologue

NIL KOKSAL: Hello. I'm Nil Koksal, sitting in for Carol Off.

ALI HASSAN: Good evening. I'm Ali Hassan, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

AH: Tonight:

NK: Officers down. A lawyer representing dozens of Minneapolis police says at least 150 of them are suffering from PTSD after the recent protests there. He tells us many are getting ready to leave the force altogether.

AH: Mob rule. Pat Musitano was gunned down in broad daylight outside a Burlington, Ontario, strip mall on Friday. An organized crime reporter tells us the mob boss's death could spell the end of the Musitano family's power.

NK: An explosive discovery. A Reddit user shares a photo believing it to be an unpublished image taken seconds after the Halifax Explosion. We reached one of the historians hoping to figure out if it really is.

AH: Regrets. Justin Trudeau's had a few. And today, he added his failure to step away from a billion dollar decision involving the We Charity to the list of things he's officially sorry for.

NK: A dolphin is not a fish, and these days it may not even be a dolphin. We talked to a former Walt Disney VP, whose latest project is to convince aquariums in China to replace real-life dolphins with robots.

AH: And fluid dynamics. Doctoring a cricket ball with a little human saliva was still considered onside until COVID-19 struck. And you'll do a real spit take when you hear what bowlers are using now. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that defies expectoration.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: These hyper-realistic robot dolphins could replace live animals at aquariums

Minneapolis Police PTSD

Guest: Ron Meuser Jr.

AH: A lot of people in Minneapolis are fed up. For weeks now since a police officer killed George Floyd in that city, there have been protests against police brutality and racial discrimination. Now, dozens of police officers say that because of those protests, they are suffering from PTSD and can no longer work. A lawyer representing the officers says about 150 of them have post-traumatic stress disorder and that they are filing disability claims that would see them leave the Minneapolis police department. We reached lawyer Ron Meuser Junior in Minneapolis.

NK: Mr. Muser, can you give me an example of a story and experience that one of the police officers you're representing who's dealing with PTSD has shared with you?

RON MEUSER JR.: Certainly. We have several of our officers that were in what's called the third precinct, and that is the precinct that was abandoned by the department during the course of the riots following the George Floyd incident. And they were physically inside and were ordered to just simply barricade themselves. They were not allowed to arrest individuals. They were not allowed to leave the building. And during the course of the riots and the protests, you know, there were Molotov cocktails that were being thrown in. There were shots fired in their direction. There literally were bullet holes in the glass doors. And as a result of, you know, being in there for roughly, you know, two or three hours without any support from the department itself, these officers felt that they were going to die. And we literally had several officers text their loved ones indicating that they were not going to make it. And they literally said their goodbyes to their family and they literally ran with the mob, chasing them roughly about five blocks to safety.

NK: The police department has said there have been no serious physical injuries since the protests began. And since the scenes that you described, the protests have largely been peaceful. Why do you think it's expanded beyond that to the point where so many officers are telling you that they are too afraid to do their jobs?

RON MEUSER JR.: Well, to be perfectly blunt, I think the department's lying to you. I have an officer that I represent that had emergency surgery on the same day -- during the course of the riots. So as a result of being struck by a piece of concrete, these were not anything like a peaceful protest.

NK: That particular incident, no. There have been peaceful protests since. There will be those who say, of course, PTSD is very real and very serious, and we've seen it with soldiers and police before. But police are trained to put their lives in danger. So what is different about what has happened now to make them feel this way?

RON MEUSER JR.: Well, I think that it's not our contention that they all develop PTSD as a result of the riots that followed. It's our position that PTSD is a cumulative type condition that ultimately reached a breaking point where that prevents them from going back or continuing on because of the triggers that occurred following the riots.

NK: Chief Medaria Arradondo has spoken about the concerns, at least generally. I want to play you a little bit of what the chief told CBS News back in June.

MEDARIA ARRADONDO: [SOUNDCLIP: That frustration is valid. This will not be the same MPD that they are accustomed to. We have an opportunity to create a new MPD and we must.]

NK: Clearly, this is a time of reckoning Mr. Meuser. And the chief has said there needs to be changes to the labour contract and other changes to make officers more accountable. So is the issue that some of these officers are unable or unwilling to deal with that kind of police reform?

RON MEUSER JR.: No, I don't think so at all. I would first say that, you know, my practice is limited to represent an individual officers who have sustained a disability. So it's not my place to comment on the appropriateness of reforms to the police department. But the rank and file feels like they have been completely abandoned by their department, by their chief, by the mayor, and by the city council.

NK: I would contend that Black Americans, many of them, feel the same way in reference to police officers and leadership in your city as well, which is why so many people are pushing for change. And again, none of this is to negate the seriousness of PTSD and what people have gone through. But we also have seen in the past that police unions and individual officers will protect other officers that perhaps are not upholding the values to serve and protect as best they could and should. So I wonder how much of this you think is pushback, a broader pushback? And the fact that we're talking about the first Black police chief trying to make substantial change in his city?

RON MEUSER JR.: You know, might ultimately what I would say is that both sides have very legitimate concerns, but the police department itself is not inherently evil. And the officers in Minneapolis have been attacked, in my opinion, very unfairly. And so I would like to see that there be one common voice where people say, let's tone down the rhetoric, let's have an honest discussion among all groups for the betterment of the society.

NK: There are videos that show police officers using excessive force against unarmed protesters in cities right across the country. You know, I suspect some who are listening in, and you might understand as well, that there isn't a lot of sympathy for some officers who don't, again, uphold the values to serve and protect as they should. How do you navigate that when getting people to see where your clients are coming from -- it is part of how you will try to win their cases, right?

RON MEUSER JR.: Correct. I think each of my individual officers are completely separate from these videos to which you're referring. But, you know, I would ultimately say that each case has to be addressed and that if there are charges brought that the criminal system should be allowed to work its way through.

NK: But what the protesters are saying is that the system is flawed, to say the least, and to make systemic change and to end systemic racism in institutions like police forces, there has to be a major shift. And it appears that the police chief is trying to bring that in.

RON MEUSER JR.: Well, I'll ultimately leave it to our elected officials and the police department and the union representing those police officers to work together to find that appropriate level of change.

NK: What do you think can be done from the city's standpoint? How do you think the city could provide support for officers, but also reform as what it has pledged to do?

RON MEUSER JR.: First and foremost, I think that the city needs to immediately cease this mantra of defunding or dismantling the police department. What they are simply saying, as far as I'm concerned, is that these police officers are not doing their jobs and that they're going to start over and remove these officers from these jobs. And to me, that reflects a complete and utter failure on the part of the administration itself. This administration and past administrations has utterly failed to recognize that these officers are going through psychological traumas on a daily basis, oftentimes.

NK: But we seem to have a chief who is sympathetic to the frustrations. We heard him say it there. And, you know, you've said, with all due respect, sir, you've said you don't want to comment on the reforms and you'll leave it up to them, but you are commenting on the reforms.

RON MEUSER JR.: Well, I mean, I don't feel that it takes a genius to realize that these officers are feeling abandoned when you're literally trying to do away with their jobs. That's how I view it.

NK: Mr. Meuser we will leave it there for now. I thank you for your time.

RON MEUSER JR.: Thank you very much.

AH: Ron Meuser Junior is a personal injury lawyer representing dozens of Minneapolis police officers.

[Music]

Halifax Explosion Photo

Guest: Dan Conlin

AH: The grainy image recently surfaced in an online forum. In the foreground, the water is calm, but in the background the sky looks filled with ominous smoky clouds. It was posted by a Reddit user last month who also described a note on the back of the image that says it was taken 30 seconds after the devastating Halifax Explosion of 1917. Dan Conlin has weighed in on whether he thinks this image is authentic. Dan is the former curator of Halifax's Maritime Museum of the Atlantic, which has a large collection of images from the explosion. We reached him in Halifax.

NK: Mr. Conlin, for those who haven't seen it, what does this photograph seem to show?

DAN CONLIN: It's a grim, surreal image, like something from a bad dream. We see three ships, unfairly tranquil stretch of water with just a little disturbed wavelets. One is a sailing ship. But in the background is this huge column of smoke rising into the sky, a mushroom cloud. And then there's a horizontal cloud of smoke that goes right across the frame and it's starting to envelop the ships. It's sort of a bit blurry, very dark. It's just like something from a nightmare.

NK: You saw it first, actually, years and years ago. What did you think then? Did you believe that it was taken right after the explosion in 1917?

DC: Well, it's hit the genre of a photo -- there's about a half dozen pictures that we know were taken very soon after the explosion showing the blast cloud or showing ships with swirls of smoke around them. So it's hit the type of photos a surprising number of people took around the water that faithful morning. So I was kind of curious. It had a look of authenticity. I was very intrigued by the sailing ship. We tend to think of World War One as the era of steamships. But it was the last hurrah for big sailing ships. And that's a substantial ship. That's a big square rigger, either a barque or full rig sailing ship. So I was kind of really curious to see if I could nail down the presence of a big sailing ship in Halifax Harbour at the time. I was a little suspicious, and wanted to be careful judging historical evidence. The waves and the ships in the foreground are quite sharp. But the clouds in the background are very fuzzy. And that just kind of led me to wonder if it might be one of these what they called composite photos. Very popular during World War One where you would take two images and layer them together to make something more dramatic. A lot of faking of World War One photos was done at that time. So I spent a bit of time. About eight years ago, I'd seen a version of this, I think it was a photocopy. Trying to see if I could nail down the presence of the big sailing ship but couldn't find a record of one. We don't have a complete list of ships that were in Halifax on the day of explosion. We only know the ships that were damage and injuries to. And I wasn't able to run it down, and it remained a mystery to me. And then this really nice high-res version has recently surfaced.

NK: Bringing up new questions, new interests. The CBC's Jon Tattrie, one of our CBC News colleague, he's been doing some digging and learned that the photograph was donated to Ontario's community archives of Belleville and Hastings County back in 2012. An archivist there has discovered the initials on the back of the photo "RGS" belong to Reginald G. Stevens. What have others been able to learn about this RGS?

DC: Yeah, we've got an interesting community of historians who spend a lot of time reviewing material from the explosion. And fellow [inaudible] found a name of the sailor whose name matches those initials who was aboard HMCS Niobe which was the flagship of the Royal Canadian Navy in Halifax at the time, which is an interesting connection. Niobe was being used at that point as kind of a floating barracks. So the sailors have been all over the harbour on different tasks. So that kind of helps give us a glimpse of provenance for the photo. And one thing that's worth mentioning is there'd been explosion in small personal cameras in late 19th century, early 20th century, I think cameras like the Kodak Brownie. And there were hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them in circulation, people taking pictures of themselves, their family, their buddy, the house that they were working on, or if you're sailor then the ship you're on or the port you were on.

NK: As CBC News was investigating this, our colleague Jon spoke to Joel Zemel as well, who's a writer. And he's also pointed out that there's an eyewitness account from HMCS Niobe that says the 11,000 ton ship was thrown into the air after the explosion. So if this photo is for real, how is it that, as you say, the water appears so calm around 30 seconds after the explosion, if in fact it was 30 seconds?

DC: Yeah, I don't think it was taken from Niobe. She was in the narrows in Halifax in the dockyard quite close to ground zero and was like jump up at it and steel rained down from the fragments of the blown up ship. And there were kind of deaths and injuries aboard her. But her sailors were regularly detached to do tasks, do inspections and maintenance and patrols. So easily a sailor from Niobe could have been sent to one of the ships in the harbour on an assignment. The 30 second part is -- this is soon after the explosion occurred. I think it's within a minute. Now, whether was 30 seconds, we tend to lose track of the time when something traumatic like this happens. But there's a good sequence of photos a French sailor took -- at 30 seconds to one minute and 90 seconds as this cloud just grew bigger and bigger and higher and higher. So I really think this is taken soon after the explosion. And just it fits so well with some of those other very smoky, disturbing pictures that were taken in the minutes after.

NK: The mysterious vessel in the foreground of this photo, is that really the key to getting more clarity if we could figure out what that ship is?

DC: Yeah, we could nail down her identity because that's a sizable square rig ship. It's probably serving as a floating warehouse what sailors called Hulk because you can see her topmast have been taken down in the yards but the parts that hold the sails have all been removed, except for one that looks like it's been fixed to use as a hoist to sling material aboard. It may well have been a coaling hulk to hold coal to refuel ships. And there was enormous demand in Halifax for refueling coal ships during Wolrd War One. And they were forever running out of space and that facility was transferred. She looks dirty enough to be a coaling hulk. So I think we'll probably be looking for every account we can have of some of the bigger hulks in Halifax Harbour at the time. And I mean, it's really kind of an explosion with such a big event and it left these international traces all over the place. I can imagine photos in shoeboxes and drawers all around Canada and the world, we'd love to hear from anybody who also has clues about the identity of the vessel. The most distinctive thing in the photograph, and it might help us kind of unlock where it was taken, and tell us something about that awful, terrible mushroom cloud that's happening in the background.

NK: It is a fascinating photo. And we'll see if more people come forward, as you said. Thank you so much for your time Dan.

DC: Oh, thank you very much. It's a dark little glimpse into Canada's past. Thank you and fair winds.

AH: Dan Conlin was the curator at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic. He's now curator at the Canadian Museum of Immigration at Pier 21. We reached him in Halifax.

[Music]

Deep Regret

AH: Justin Trudeau has made another act of contrition. The prime minister spent weeks dodging questions about his family's connection to the We Charity. He was criticized about the government's decision to have We administer the government's billion dollar student grant program. But Mr. Trudeau appears to have rethought his approach to answering questions about the relationship with the charity after Friday's revelation that We has paid more than a quarter of a million dollars in speaking fees to his mother and his brother. Then there was the news that neither Mr. Trudeau nor his finance minister, Bill Morneau, had recused themselves from cabinet discussions about the charity and the program despite We's links to Mr. Morneau's family members too. Here's what Prime Minister Trudeau said in Ottawa today.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I made a mistake in not recusing myself immediately from the discussions, given our family's history. And I insincerely sorry about not having done that. I got into politics to help people shape their country for the better. I've been youth critic and youth minister for our government, and every step of the way I've tried to create opportunities for young people to serve. During this unprecedented pandemic, we've got very creative with a range of programs designed to help Canadians, to help families, to help businesses, and, yes, to help young people. We worked with a range of partners across the country. But when it came to this organization and this program, the involvement that I'd had in the past and my family has should have had me remove myself from those discussions. And I'm sorry that I didn't. I'm particularly sorry, because not only has it created unnecessary controversy and issues, it also means that young people who are facing a difficult time right now like getting summer jobs, contributing to their communities, are going to have to wait a little longer before getting those opportunities to serve. And that's frustrating.

REPORTER: With all due respect Prime Minister, this is the third time you've had a conflict of interest as prime minister. How many will it take for you to actually learn the lesson?

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I think we're going to continue to work very very hard to deliver programs for Canadians. From the very beginning, the intention in this program was to get young people serving their country in a different way, in a creative way, in a way that we had to move quickly on because of the pandemic. We always knew from the beginning that there were going to need to be adjustments and tweaks to various programs. And we demonstrated throughout the past months that we have adjusted and tweaked and fixed errors and put programs aside that weren't quite working and improved other programs that were working well. These are the things that Canadians expect us to do. But on this one, this was my mistake. This was me not stepping back from an organization that I should have known to not get involved with even as prime minister and allow them, allow the public service and the non connected ministers to move forward on delivering this program. The fact that I didn't made it more difficult for young people at a time where things are difficult enough already. And that is something I deeply regret.

AH: Prime Minister Trudeau answering a question from CTV's Molly Thomas in Ottawa today.

[Music]

Robot Dolphins

Guest: Roger Holzberg

AH: Captured on video, tourists in the San Francisco Bay Area appear to be having a great time with dolphins. They splash around in the pool with them, they swim alongside them, and gets a kick out of their characteristic dolphin chatter. Except they're actually frolicking with robots, animatronic dolphins -- that are I've got to say very convincing. Roger Holzberg is a former creative director for Disney. He's now an entrepreneur whose latest project is to convince large aquariums in China to replace their real live dolphins with his robotic ones. We reached Mr. Holzberg in Los Angeles.

NK: Mr. Holzberg, what's it like to swim with robot dolphins?

ROGER HOLZBERG: [Chuckles] It's a lot of fun to swim with a robotic dolphin because you can actually tell it what to do and it'll look at you and respond to you as opposed to real dolphins, which tend to swim away when you get close to them.

NK: How do these dolphins respond to cues from humans?

RH: There are several modes that the robotic dolphins can work in. When we are doing up close and personal animation with guests, or particularly children, they're being puppets by puppeteers who essentially are controlling the robot in real time.

NK: How did you manage to make them so lifelike, so real, though? You must have had obstacles to executing that.

RH: Sure. There's 30 years of experience in marine engineering going back to making the humpback whales for the film Star Trek 4 and the orcas for Free Willy and of course, the dolphin for the live action movie Flipper. The process really begins with recreating the skeletal armature of the animal. So inside that robot is a skeleton where the major elements look very much like a real dolphin. The servers that then power that skeleton and make it move are based on the real major muscle groups of the animal. And the detail goes so far as to actually integrate fat bladders to be sure that the buoyancy and the feel of it when you actually touch it feels like its real life counterpart. The robotic dolphin actually weighs exactly what its adolescent counterpart does, which means it's about 600 pounds when it's in the water and moving.

NK: The goal, as I understand it now, is to get aquariums, primarily in China, to replace real dolphins with the ones you've created. Why China?

RH: Well, China actually came to us. This was a project that, believe it or not, we piloted about 20 years ago back when the marine park industry was a much more profitable industry and long before any of the films like The Cove had been made. In the last decade or so, a lot of controversy about whether it's right, fair and safe or not, to keep large marine mammals in aquariums and have them perform on a regular basis. And the profitability of that industry has diminished year by year for quite some time now. However, the public's hunger to experience these animals is still just as strong as it is. And the mission of many of these organizations to educate the public is just as strong as it is. So we believe that there is a possible win-win for both the industry and for the educational initiatives to be able to reimagine the kind of entertainment we do with those animals, but also continue the education and in fact, make it more cost effective than capturing them and providing the are better in their needs and the breeding needs to be able to continue to sustain the industry as it has been done so over the last several decades.

NK: How would the cost of one of these dolphins compare to the cost of an actual dolphin and all the veterinary costs and things like that you talked about?

RH: So I can tell you that the financial modeling has been done over a 10 year period with the three primary parks that are looking at doing this in China, and there is a savings over a 10 year period when you compare live dolphins to robotic dolphins of tens of millions of dollars. And the reason that was selected was because 10 years is what we are ball-parking the life cycle of the robot for. But 10 years is also a pretty important number for live dolphins, because you've got to have a breeding program in place and be looking at creating offspring within that period of time as well.

NK: What's your sense of how you think humans are going to react to hanging out with these dolphins as opposed to the real thing?

RH: Sure. The kids who have been in the water with these dolphins or interacted with them have, even though their parents told them they were going to be with robots, they didn't believe it. The first pilot we did 20 years ago, almost to the day, one of the guests in the first show there ran out through an emergency exit door, setting off an alarm and called the ASPCA and the Orlando Police Department and told them that Disney was lying to people, telling them that they had created a robotic dolphin but it was really a real dolphin and it had a camera bolted to its head and was wearing a vest. So it's an interesting phenomenon we witnessed.

NK: Roger Holzberg thank you so much.

RH: Oh, you're very welcome. Take care.

AH: Roger Holzberg is an entrepreneur in Los Angeles. For more on this story and to see the video of those dolphins and action, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: Musitano Killing

Musitano Killing

Guest: Adrian Humphreys

AH: Pat Musitano had survived two other attempts on his life, but this time the Hamilton mobster did not beat the odds. Mr. Musitano was shot and killed on Friday outside a strip mall in Burlington in southern Ontario. Pat Musitano was a part of one of the most powerful organized crime families in nearby Hamilton, or at least what was the most powerful family in decades past. But with the killing of Pat and of his brother Angelo in 2017, the future of the Musitano's reign is in question. Adrian Humphreys is the organized crime reporter at the National Post. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: Mr. Humphreys, what does Pat Musitano's murder mean for the mob in Canada?

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: Well, one thing that certainly means is that it's more evidence that the Mafia is very real, that the Mafia is very present and the Mafia can be very bold and violent. That's certainly from the big picture. On a more microscopic stage, it really is more of an end of a story than the beginning of a story, I believe. And, you know, the evidence may lead otherwise. But I believe that this is more a case of tidying up loose ends for past offenses rather than the beginning of something new.

NK: You were not surprised by this killing?

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: No, not at all. I mean, Pat Musitano had been marked for death for many years. He knew it. I'm not saying anything that anyone in the underworld didn't already know. He had made so many enemies because of his boldness and motivations to propel his family forward in the underworld. He backed the wrong horse, so to speak. And the tables had turned. And it was time for those that felt slighted -- probably what's behind it -- it's time for those that felt slighted by him to finally have their say on the matter.

NK: I got goosebumps when you said marked for death because, of course, we've all seen movies about the Mafia. But when it comes down to it, these are real people, these are real murders. For those who aren't familiar with the Musitano name, tell me about the family and their reach.

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: Pat Musitano himself was extraordinary, cordial, genial guy. I met him many times. He was always very civil to me. Not terribly cooperative, but obviously very civil. And in my line of work, that's really all you can ask of them. I mean, he was literally born into the Mafia. So he was the son of a mafia boss who was himself the nephew of a mobster who actually fled from Italy after a horrendous murder and relocated to Hamilton where he forged a new mafia clan in the family's name in Canada, but very much adhering to the old world rules of the Ndrangheta, which is the proper name of the Mafia from the Calabrian area they came from. Pat Musitano's father, Dominic, was very much like Pat in temperament and in physique and in almost every way. Pat studied his father. Pat was learning from a young age to be the Mafia boss to replace his father. In fact, a lot of his associates and friends would tell me that he was constantly reading Mafia books even as a kid growing up, he'd be sitting in a restaurant reading a book about John Gotti, watching Mafia movies as if he was learning the role that he would play one day.

NK: In terms of his image and the way he looked and how he behaved very much the kind of character that people have become used to seeing in film. And if you think that that's an inflated version of it, it sounds like, you know, art imitating life, life imitating art, sort of that cycle.

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: It is 100 percent and to an extraordinary degree. Like the most common expression from anyone who has met Pat is, you know, he's right out of central casting. I mean, for starters, there's his physique. He's very large, very round. He's got jet-black style hair. He had the throaty voice [imitating voice] like this, like from The Godfather. He liked to have custom-made suits -- they had to be custom made for his size. But also, you know, they have like his monogrammed and the French cuffs and he drape a silk scarf sometimes around his neck and wear dark glasses. I mean, you literally could pick Pat out two blocks down a crowded city street. Every mafia stereotype you could probably think of was probably a part of Pat's life at some time for real.

NK: What do we know about who had it out for the Musitanos -- who might be behind this?

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: Well, you know, there's two main divisions within, you know, the Mafia. There's those that come from Calabria and those that come from Sicily. The Sicilian mobsters are like in The Godfather movie called Cosa Nostra. And then there's the Calabrian ones called the Ndrangheta. And in Canada, they often work together, blend together. But ultimately, they are very different roots and very different organizations. And the Musitanos being from Calabria decided to back Vito Rizzuto from Montreal, who was Sicilian. And that caused a lot of anger and anguish by the Calabrian mobsters who saw Vito then come in and sort of take control of their province. Ontario was largely run by Calabrian gangsters. And Montreal fell into the hands of the Sicilians. Once Vito Rizzuto got extradited to United States and then fell ill with cancer and then died, it became quite apparent that Pat Musitano had backed the wrong horse and the tables had turned. He made a big powerplay, but it made him a lot of enemies. We don't know yet who pulled the trigger, but in terms of those that wanted to pull the trigger, that is the root of a lot of it.

NK: What happens now? How do you think the death of Pat Musitano is going to play out? Who's going to try to fill the gaps?

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: Well, that's a very particularly difficult question to answer, because the organization has been so eroded over the years because of this, you know, basically a war. Several people in the Musitano or linked to the Musitano organization have already been killed. Before Pat fell, his brother was murdered. His brother would have been a natural heir. So it's very much uncertain.

NK: Will there be retribution, do you think, for Pat Musitano's death?

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: I don't know. There are certainly a lot of people that loved him. Many people thought very fondly of him. You know, I don't want to present him as this ogre that nobody liked. He did have friends and he was very gregarious and a good communicator, good at making connections like his father was. So, you know, on a personal level, perhaps organizationally, though, it's just hard to mount a war. And it's hard to see at this stage, you know, what tools they have in their toolbox to do that. But, you know, Mafia looks at the long game. I mean, some of the suspects that were people that had it most in for the Musitanos and Pat Musitano are basing it on grievances that are a generation ago. So there could be a kid today who may want, you know, some sense of revenge in the future. One of the things about the Mafia is that the families are very long and they rarely forgive.

NK: Adrian Humphreys thank you so much.

ADRIAN HUMPHREYS: Very welcome. Appreciate your interest.

AH: Adrian Humphreys is the organized crime reporter for The National Post. He's in Toronto.

[Music]

Megan Gail Coles

AH: Megan Gail Coles loves her native province. But the Newfoundland writer's relationship with the rock is also complicated. So while her debut novel, "Small Game Hunting at the Local Coward Gun Club" makes no apologies for its love of Newfoundland, it makes no apologies to its love either. The book will be championed by YouTuber Alayna Fender next week's rescheduled Canada Reads Debates. And now as a preview, here's Ms. Coles talking to Ms. Fender about the novel that now unites them.

MEGAN GAIL COLES: I think we have a very flawed notion of what unconditional love is. And in the past, I have heard people describe unconditional love as the kind of love where everything is forgiven without examination, without honesty. While I am examining some of the less than positive aspects of Newfoundland and Canadian culture, I am doing so in a way that expresses my deep devotion in love for that place where I was made.

ALAYNA FENDER: Because you want it to be better.

MEGAN GAIL COLES: And I also believe that they can be better.

ALAYNA FENDER: Do you have any advice to someone who is about to pick up your book or about to start reading the book going into it?

MEGAN GAIL COLES: This is not a light hearted romance. This is not your entertainment for the sake of entertainment. I am trying to communicate a need for change. And so there is going to be discomfort and there's going to be things that are really painful. It hurt a lot to write the book. It definitely hurt as much as it does to read it. And the characters are based on Canadians. The characters are inspired by our society. I hope that you engage with those characters in a way that makes you recognize them on the streets of your cities.

ALAYNA FENDER: Do you have a favorite passage in the book or a favourite line that you wrote?

MEGAN GAIL COLES: I don't know that I can choose a line or a passage from the novel. I do have a kind of technique that I use in my writing where I pull a line out of the paragraph and isolate it on the page and potentially even repeat it many many times because I want this part to be heard. And we have heard a lot of false things. We were talking about how people have grown up in cultures where we say things like "boys will be boys." And we've heard these things so many times that to undo this messaging, we have to hear the opposite. We have to hear it as much and as loudly and as frequently and as in many different contexts as we can to undo that. And so, yes, I do hit that nail.

AH: Megan Gail Coles is the author of "Small Game Hunting at the Local Coward Gun Club." That novel will be champion next week on Canada Reads take two by YouTube Alayna Fender. For more, you can visit: cbcbooks.ca. And a small side note: I will be hosting that battle of the books next week.

[Music]

Seaweed Threat

Guest: Heather Spalding

AH: You could call Heather Spalding an alga...genius. She has been studying algae for more than 20 years. But last year, along with her colleagues, she encountered red algae in the waters of Hawaii, that was like nothing she'd seen before. In a new paper in the journal Plos One last week. The researchers say the algae, specifically a seaweed, is a highly destructive new species that can spread fast and is threatening coral. Heather Spalding is the senior author of the paper. She's an assistant professor in the Department of Biology at the College of Charleston in South Carolina.

NK: So, Professor Spalding, take us back to last year. You were diving around the Pearl and Hermes Atoll in Hawaii. You first saw this seaweed with your own eyes. What do you remember about what you felt in that moment?

HEATHER SPALDING: Well, it was really a shock, to be honest. When I first saw it, it was the first dove we were doing at Pearl and Hermes Atoll. And as I were just descending, I could see a large patch of this brown substance on the bottom. I didn't know what it was. And as we get closer to the patch, the bigger and bigger. And we landed, you know, and I did some collections. I kind of rooted around in this mat of this unknown seaweed species. And I didn't know what it was. And so I was a little alarmed. But I took some samples and I'm like, we'll have to check this out a bit later. And so then on our second dive, we were at another location. And as soon as I flipped into the water, I saw it again. But this time, instead of a patch, it was covering the entire reef. And at that moment, I knew we were in trouble. And this was something very different than anything we'd seen before. And it was shocking.

NK: Is it how expansive it was what made it so shocking?

HS: Yeah, well, it was a few different things. First off, when we were diving, I didn't recognize what it was. So I knew we're dealing with something new. But in addition to that, it wasn't just that it was new, it was how it was growing. Because as it would grow, it would form these thick mats and it would basically smother the coral and the native algae and other sponges and things growing underneath of it. And then they didn't have a chance. And so it was just really killing everything that it was growing over on this reef.

NK: So you hadn't noticed it before that dive back in 2019, had any others?

HS: Yeah. So in 2016, Louise Giuseffi was diving with NOAA, noticed it and made note of it as a few patches of an unknown red alga. And luckily she had done a good job and made some collections. And so we knew something had been there, but no one had ever really followed up since then. So from 2016, it went from a few patches to three years later in 2019 to overgrowing an entire reef. So it was really shocking to see it spread that quickly.

NK: And what can happen if it continues to go unchecked. So how do you think seemingly out of nowhere it came and spread so quickly?

HS: You know, that's the million dollar question. You know, we really don't know if this is something that was introduced from somewhere else and then came, you know, prior to 2016 and then got really abundant. Or if it's a new species that has been there, you know, in Hawaii hanging out but cryptic, and then for whatever reason its conditions have changed in some way that it's gotten very abundant and is overgrowing the reef. We really need to get back there and try and answer this question in more detail.

NK: How is marine life behaving around it?

HS: That was shocking. So in the northwestern Hawaiian Islands, one of the things that makes it a very special place is that you have this food web. So you have thousands of fish in these large schools. And when you're diving, these schools will come by and there's so many fish you have to, like, shoo them out of the way that you can see the bottom and keep doing your work. So there's a lot of herbivores that are naturally grazing the system. And so you have this balance of corals and native algae or seaweed, you know, all growing together. But with this invasive algae, it just came in. And when you would see these schools of fish, they went right over it. You know, you wanted to point out and say, look, eat it -- like right there -- you can eat this. But the school just drift right over it and instead end up targeting a few native species of algae that are still present and eating those down. And so until the herbivores are able to recognize what this is and eat it, I think it's going to continue just to overgrow these coral reefs.

NK: They don't want to eat what they don't know like many of us.

HS: I mean, it's like the brussel sprouts of the ocean. I'm like, no, seriously. I mean, I hated it, tasted fine. It had a slightly nutty aftertaste. But it was nice. It was crunchy. I'm like, you know, there's no reason why these fish can't eat this algae. [Chuckles] But I think they just don't recognize it. Or who knows, maybe there's some kind of anti-herbivory compound in that, that might make it not taste good.

NK: And as you learn more about it, maybe it will end up on our sushi tables in the future. In all seriousness, this area is a protected marine national monument, so how badly has the seaweed damaged the reef?

HS: It's pretty bad. So we did surveys all around Pearl and Hermes Atoll, and it was at the majority of locations that we surveyed. And we really need to go back and see how it has expanded or hopefully retracted. But given what we saw and how fast it grew from 2016 to 2019, I think it would likely continue to expand. And we need to find out, you know, if it has expanded to other islands and atolls. I think right now need to find out if it's at Midway Atoll, if it's at Kure Atoll. And we really need to do whatever we can to keep it out of the rest of the Hawaiian archipelago. If it got down until Waikiki and to the main Hawaiian islands, I think you could do a lot of damage.

NK: But what can be done to stop it, do you think, and manage it even at this stage?

HS: Well, I think right now what we need to do -- luckily, you know, Pearl and Hermes is a pretty remote place -- what we need to do is get back there and study it as much as we can. You know, is there anything that will eat it? What is its physiology? You know, what bacteria are associated with it? It turns out the bacteria on the reef are really important. And so we want to learn basically as much as we can about it from the microbes all the way up to, you know, the fish and how easy is it to remove. If we can contain it where it's at right now and then learn as much as we can about it so that hopefully we can help mitigate it, I think those are our priorities right now.

NK: Well, I hope we check in with you again as your research continues. It is fascinating. And I can hear the excitement and your passion for it in your voice. Professor Spalding, thank you for your time.

HS: Thank you. It was wonderful talking with you. Thanks for having me.

AH: Heather Spalding is one of the authors of a new paper about a destructive seaweed in the waters of Hawaii. We reached her in Charleston, South Carolina.

[Music]

THE MAJOR THING

AH: Now, here's a sticky wicket, like just about every other athletic endeavor international cricket was suspended in March. Last week marked the return of the world's other most popular bat and ball game with some adjustments because of the pandemic, of course. England faced off against the West Indies in a "biosecure environment." And among the new rules, keep your saliva to yourself, which is a shame, because spit shining the ball is a beloved, if somewhat gross, tradition. And cricket is nothing, if not traditional. Still, the bowlers demonstrated incredible agility on the whole spit thing. They pivoted to using another bodily fluid that is arguably even more gross. According to English cricketer Mark Wood: back sweat is, "the major thing" at the moment. The innovation may be, well, disgusting, but apparently it does meet new biosecure hygiene standards as it's unlikely to transmit coronavirus. By the way, West Indies won over England by four wickets in a three match series. Nothing like a little sweat equity, I suppose.

[Music]

Extreme Duck Racing

AH: He's been a sports commentator with Yellowknife's Cabin Radio for years. Ollie Williams has done play by play at the Olympics. This week, Mr. Williams added a new sport to his repertoire: extreme duck racing. 1,500 rubber ducks race down the river this week to raise money for charity. And it's being broadcast on Cabin Radio's Facebook page with Mr. Williams calling the races. Here is some of what it sounds like.

OLLIE WILLIAMS: You can see that there's a couple of ducks maybe just starting to make a little headway at the front here as we enter the latter stages, maybe only another 45 seconds or so left as we see that rear camera view. They're heading toward that finish line. It's going to be the first five ducks to make it to AJ -- the finish adjudicator. They will go through to the semifinals where they get to go over a waterfall. How much are you looking forward to seeing that?

LUKE PONTIN: I'm so excited to see tiny little rubber duckies go down. Extremely high water.

OLLIE WILLIAMS: Okay, so we've just seen that duck number 159 is leading right now. You have those three ducks at the front. They will all be safe as things stand. It is your first five. Now we swap to the finish line camera. You can see, you have ducks 159 and 21 out there on the left. It's going to be 159 picked up by AJ first, then 21. 16 is looking pretty assured of finishing in third place. Here comes 16 right now. And it's going to be so close Luke for fourth and fifth! [Crowd cheering sounds in the background]

LUKE PONTIN: Oh, my gosh. I can't even tell for fourth and fifth. I'm even surprised that AJ can tell who came fourth and fifth.

OLLIE WILLIAMS: You know what? That's why we got replays for. We're going to take another look at that finish in just a second. I do believe we are getting the results confirmed right now. Yes, here they are. It is ducks 159, 21, 16, 49, 294 that have made it through that first heat. They'll all be through to the semifinals later on this week. Congratulations to those five people who bought those five ducks. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.

AH: Commentator Ollie Williams and co-host Luke Pontin calling to the extreme rubber duck races in Yellowknife, our Sound of the Day. The finals during which the ducks must brave a waterfall will be posted Sunday on Cabin Radio's Facebook page.

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July 13, 2020 Episode Transcript

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