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The AIH Transcript for May 7, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CH: Google pulls the plug on its controversial plan to develop a smart city in Toronto. Jim Balsillie, the former head of Research in Motion, says the whole idea was troubled from the start.

CO: The plot sickens. An alledged Russian poisoning plot has three Czech mayors under police protection. The mayor of Prague tells us he's not entirely sure how he became a target.

CO: Days after a failed attempt to overthrow the government of Venezuela, a former U.S. Navy Seal tells us the men he trained were less like elite soldiers, and more like hungry amateurs.

CH As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that knows the first cut is the bleakest.

5G cell towers

Guest: John Gregory

CH: As COVID-19 spreads, so do Internet conspiracy theories about the virus. And recently, those crackpot theories have jumped from the virtual world to the real one. Around the world, dozens of cellphone towers have been damaged by people who believe that 5G wireless technology is what's really making people sick. And Canada is not immune. Today, two people were arrested in Quebec in connection with fires at cell phone towers. Police are still investigating whether the COVID conspiracy theories motivated those attacks. But today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tweeted a stern reminder that damaging cell towers carries severe criminal penalties. John Gregory is a former journalist who now works for NewsGuard, a company that sniffs out misinformation online. We reached Mr. Gregory in Chicago.

CO: John, what can you tell us about how this conspiracy theory involving the 5G mobile technology, how did it get started?

JOHN GREGORY: Well, 5G conspiracy theories date back several years, really since the beginning of the new technology being introduced. When it comes to tying it to COVID-19, the earliest mention we found of it was in a January 20th article on a French conspiracy theory site called “The Enraged Sheep”. That suggested that the coronavirus outbreak happening in Wuhan, it said it was a viral or bacterial mutation due to 5G networks. It really just seemed like they were taking advantage of this new news story to push an existing conspiracy theory about 5G.

CO: And how rapidly did that spread, that latest conspiracy theory?

JG: Well, it didn't really gain traction in a big way until February and into March. And then what I think, really set it off was celebrities helping to spread it. The biggest example I could point to was actor Woody Harrelson shared a post on his Instagram page that linked 5G installations in Wuhan to the coronavirus. And Haralson has two-point-one million followers on Instagram. Other celebrities promoted as well. The boxer, Amir Khan, the singer M.I.A. While you can't draw a direct connection between celebrity posts or or any site, really, in these instances of vandalism, a 5G tower in Birmingham, England, was set on fire just a day after Haralson made that Instagram post.

CO: As you mentioned, these ideas that the 5G technology is dangerous has been around for a long time. But it really is being amplified by social media and by these celebrities, including one who said that the COVID-19 disease is actually just a made up illness to explain the side effects of the 5G rollout. And that's the reason why people are getting sick. Do any of these conspiracy theories offer any evidence?

JG: They offer, at best, spurious evidence. For instance, they'll say that Wuhan was one of the first Chinese cities to have a 5G network active, which is true. They will then falsely claim that oh, everywhere that has 5G now has coronavirus. And that's not true. Iran, for instance, has had over 100,000 confirmed cases, and they don't have a 5G network active. You can find an expert opinion to support pretty much any conspiracy theory. You'll find someone with at least exaggerated, maybe real-sounding credentials like an MD or a Ph.D. or real credentials that supports those kind of claims. And they will support a specific conspiracy theory.

CO: These fires of the cell phone towers around the world, and now in Canada as well. We have these confirmed cases in Quebec that people are setting these towers on fire. Are they all tied to the 5G conspiracy theory involving COVID19, or is this perhaps any evidence it's a hangover from all the other 5G conspiracy theories?

JG: Well, the timing would certainly suggest that it has to be related to coronavirus, but it's hard to parse that. And it's very possible that the same people who believe in the conspiracy theory that COVID-19 is tied to 5G were already spreading or believing in those earlier conspiracy theories that just said 5G can cause all these health problems.

CO: What are the efforts? What are you seeing in the way of those trying to turn these ideas around or to stop them? I mean, are the social media networks themselves trying to shut these theories down?

JG: Yes, the social networks have been more active in removing pages promoting these kinds of conspiracy theories, and on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube. But they are still playing a game of Whack-A-Mole. They’re acting claim by claim, days or weeks after the misinformation has time to spread, rather than offering readers information at the source level. What we've seen at NewsGuard is that the majority of the sites that are sharing coronavirus misinformation are ones that we had already rated as unreliable. So they've spread conspiracy theories either about 5G before the coronavirus pandemic, or just other false claims in general. And it kind of shows that it's not a new phenomenon. It's not coming from new sites or new sources. These are existing bad actors in the misinformation industry, simply taking advantage of a new event to spread the same kind of tall tales that they specialize in.

CO: And when does it sort of bridge into the mainstream? We're just seeing that in Canada, a Liberal politician who is the chair of a health committee in parliament is introducing a petition that claims that cell phone towers pose a danger to children, and quotes from articles that claim that microwave radiation is an illness that comes from these towers. When do you see it bridging into the mainstream and even into the political realm?

JG: We've seen that before. Before the Coronavirus pandemic, there have been anti-5G experts or the same kind of claims brought up at state legislative hearings here in the United States. And I think that kind of exploits the same issue where expert opinions can be cherry picked. A charitable explanation would be the legislators are simply doing their due diligence about a new technology. Because some of these sites could exploit the absence of scientific evidence, specifically for 5G up until the past year or so. And they would have argued that in the absence of that more specific information, these conspiratorial claims could offer more certainty, or at least you can explain the absence of information as a sign of something nefarious. That's not really the case anymore. There is evidence that is specific to 5G showing that it poses no risk to human health under the existing guidelines that have governed cell phones for two decades.

CO: John, we'll leave it there. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JG: Thank you very much.

CH: John Gregory is a Senior Analyst with NewsGuard, which documents and tracks misinformation online. We reached him in Chigago.

[Music: Percussive]

Venezuela plot

Guest: Ephraim Mattos

CH: Jordan Goudreau said his plot was meant to liberate Venezuelans. Not only did that plot fail spectacularly this week, it appeared to be a political gift for embattled President Nicolas Maduro. Mr. Goudreau is a Canadian-born former Green Beret with the U.S. Military. He is also the guy who says he cooked up a plan to send hundreds of anti-Maduro fighters into Venezuela to overthrow the government. But on Monday, Venezuela announced it had arrested two American mercenaries, and killed several combatants. And now, Mr. Goudreau is reportedly under federal investigation in the States for arms trafficking. Ephraim Mattos is a former U.S. Navy Seal. He's never met Mr. Goudreau. But he knew about the daring plot. He met some of the would-be combatants in Colombia. We reached Ephraim Mattos in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

CO: Ephraim, when you heard that these men had attempted this coup d'etat on the weekend, and it had failed spectacularly, how did you feel?

EPHRAIM MATTOS: You know, honestly, I felt pretty much sick to my stomach is the best way to describe it. I wish that they had succeeded. I am not a friend of Maduro. However, I knew things were not going to go well. It feels awful knowing that good men were led into this terrible tragedy.

CO: Let's just go back to your encounter with this plan, or what you came to know about the plan. And it was in Colombia last fall, right?

EM: So I run a humanitarian organisation and we'll do some basic medical training in some of the places that we work in. And so I went down to Colombia to work with some Venezuelan refugees, guys who had left the Maduro regime. And so I worked with about a group of about 20 guys. And we did medical training. And these guys were absolutely fantastic. But as I was down there, I then heard about this plan that they were talking about to take out Maduro and take their country back. They actually asked myself and my organisation, to help provide humanitarian aid and medical support. And I said I would love to do that only if the United States government is involved. And only if they give us permission to be involved as well.

CO: Did the men with whom you encountered there, the ones who are going to be part of this, did they know that the United States was probably not backing this mission?

EM: No. Unfortunately, what I discovered was that they were under the impression the United States government was backing everything that was going on. They thought that Jordan Gaudreau was an active member of the U.S. military. They thought he was also one of President Trump's bodyguards. And there was a lot of misinformation there, which unfortunately has led to this disaster.

CO: Okay. Let's talk about Jordan Goudreau and Silver Corps. Jordan. Goudreau is a Canadian, as we have been told, also an American. He had this company, Silver Corps, that was a security company. And he was one of the masterminds, perhaps the key one. What do you know about him? Did you get to meet him at any point?

EM: I actually never personally met him. I heard about him later on. Once I'd heard about that plan from the Venezuelan resistance guys, they showed me his company's website. They showed me his Instagram. And I knew within about two minutes of looking at it that something was terribly wrong. And I did, at one point, reach out to him in February 2020. I initiated contact and sent him a message on Instagram saying, Hey, man, I need to talk to you. And my intention was to try and talk him down from whatever it is that he was getting involved in because I knew it was gonna get a lot of people killed. He got the message, said he was willing to talk. And then, when I tried to schedule a time, he never got back to me.

CO: What have you learned? What impressions have you had when you've learned about Jordan Gaudreau? He's been described as a kind of Rambo character. A lot of people wondering what movie he thought he was playing in. What were your impressions of him?

EM: My impressions were when I saw his website and his and his social media presence, to be perfectly honest, it looked like arrogance. Arrogance was what I saw when I looked at it. And I was not impressed. I felt it was a little bit cringy [chuckling awkwardly], to be honest. It was just a bit over the top, very self-absorbed. But I also know that he, I mean, he is a legitimately, you know, a former U.S. special forces soldier. But I think he is ego just got out of control. And unfortunately, I think that also led to him being blinded from the realities of what he was doing and what he was getting involved in.

CO: What you did know is what you could see of the men you were giving some assistance to. What did you make of them? What state where they in? How well trained were they? How were they equipped?

EM: They were not living in squalor, but they definitely were not properly supplied. And when I got there, and they were talking about how they thought the U.S. government was involved, I told them, I said, I don't think the U.S. government is involved because you guys don't have enough food. Or your water, rather, is coming from a river. We used broomsticks to pretend like, you know like they're guns or whatever. And again, these guys are already police officers and military. So they were training every day, you know, practicing clearing rooms and things like that. And then we would throw in medical scenarios while they trained.

CO: It appears that it was well known by the Venezuelans that this was going on, this plan was there. In fact, the Associated Press actually wrote the story up days before, that they had the whole story. Jordan Goudreau is actually tweeting about that they were going to do this mission, Operation Gideon. Was there nobody that could have put the brakes on and protected these people from going into, well, a disaster?

EM: Well, sure. Like you said, the Associated Press released an article on May 1st talking about the old operation, the one that I was aware of. And I was actually quoted in that article as well. And what the Associated Press reporter had uncovered was this old plan to overthrow Maduro, but nobody knew, from what I understand, nobody knew about the new plan. The plan which no longer has 300 guys, it had 60 guys. [chuckling] Which is obviously you're not improving your odds there. So what I believe happened is on May 1st, the article came out exposing what was going on. And then on May 3rd is when they actually lost the incursion into Venezuela. And I don't know why nobody stopped them or whatever. I had no knowledge that it was going on. But to be perfectly honest, it comes down to Jordan. Jordan should have known that if, you know, a reporter sitting in Miami can uncover his entire plan and everybody who's working with from his previous plan, he should have known that, of course, Maduro. And, of course, foreign intelligence services — specifically the Cubans — you know, had probably infiltrated everything that they were doing. He had to have known. But again, that's why I bring it back to pride. It's just he refused to see reality.

CO: And was it a big paycheque that he was anticipating? He's a mercenary, right? So what was he going to get out of it?

EM: I read a Washington Post report saying that he was supposed to receive 14 per cent of any cash that was seized, American U.S. dollars that were seized, that were being housed in warehouses around Venezuela. He was also supposed to receive millions of dollars backed up by Venezuelan oil. And then also to, if you capture Maduro, he has a $15 million bounty on his head. He stood to make potentially millions of dollars, tens of millions, potentially.

CO: He was not on the boats that were attempting to land in Venezuela on the weekend. His colleagues, two Americans, a number of Venezuelans captured, some killed. What do you think should happen with Jordan Goudreau as far as you're concerned?

EM: I believe that the solution to the situation is that Jordan Goudreau should voluntarily turn himself over to Maduro and his government in exchange for the two Americans.

CO: We will leave it there. Ephraim, thank you for speaking with us.

EM: Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

CH: Ephraim Mattos is a former U.S. Navy Seal, who gave first aid training to some would-be combatants involved in Operation Gideon, in secret camps in Colombia. He spoke to us from Milwaukee.

[Music: Industrial]

Cabbage cooking

CH: First, it was potatoes. Now, it's cabbage. Prince Edward Island farmers are calling on the public to eat more coleslaw, sauerkraut, and cabbage rolls. With restaurants closed because of COVID-19, they are stock-piling thousands of pounds of the stuff. Cabbage might be a harder sell than potatoes. But thankfully, cabbage aficionado Ann Thurlow has answered the call. Yesterday, she spoke with Mitch Cormier, host of Island Morning, about a Facebook group she started, called "PEI Cabbage Club", to share recipes for the humble vegetable. Here's part of their conversation.

[sc]

ANN THURLOW: Here's a chance to promote the cabbage. And to point out to people that we're missing a really, really great nutritional opportunity. I've always loved cabbage. And I'm not a big lover of the coleslaw. I will eat the coleslaw. But generally, I find that coleslaw is like the worst use for cabbage — unless it's a fancy kind. But you can make simple, simple things. Like you could cut a cabbage up in quarters, put some oil on it, bun it in the oven and roast it. And it is delicious. And that amount of cabbage will just fill you up with nutrition. It would give you no calories. And it costs nothing. I just I do not understand why I'm having to beg for some respect for the cabbage [Mitch Cormier chuckles], because it's just the best vegetable as far as I'm concerned.

MITCH CORMIER: But there it was, the screaming headline on the CBC PEI website.

AT: I know!

MC: “Coleslaw, Anyone?”

AT: I know, because that's all anybody ever thinks about cabbage. That's all that anybody ever thinks. You know, once I started this, people started going, oh, yes, there is sauerkraut, and there is kimchi. And I agree that sauerkraut and kimchi are fantastic things. However, I am an enthusiastic but very lazy cook. I know there are people out there going, it's easy, it's easy. And I know that it is. But I buy kimchi, and I appreciate it. But I find that just making things really simple, making a cabbage soup, which all you got to do is cut up some cabbage, put it in a pan with some butter and you just let it soften up till it gets all kind of silky. Your bug in some milk, and you just let it cook for an hour. You can eat it like that, or you could throw in a little sausage. It was that meal was my go-to meal, whatever. I came home, and I thought, [deep sigh] what am I going to cook? I can't bear it.

MC: You understand we have one-point-two million pounds of cabbage here to get rid of?

AT: I think that we could do that. I honestly and truly think that. Because a cabbage is very, very dense. If you pick up an average cabbage, it's going to weigh a couple pounds anyway. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago, a friend knowing how much I loved cabbage gave me a five pound cabbage for Christmas [MC laughs], with a bow on it and everything. But, really, I think we could go through that mountain with not too much trouble. I really do.

[/sc]

CH: That was Island Morning host, Mitch Cormier, speaking with Ann Thurlow about her Facebook group "PEI Cabbage Club." Ms. Thurlow is trying to help farmers deal with a surplus of cabbage by sharing recipes for the vegetable.

[Music: World music]

Flowbee sold out

Guest: Tom McKay

CH: By now you've probably at least thought about giving yourself a haircut. But then, you've probably also seen the results on other people who've tried that. So you may have wisely decided a quarantine-cut may not be the best option. And, disclaimer, the gadget we're about to tell you about is also probably not the best option. It's called the Flowbee. It's basically a set of hair clippers with an adapter that attaches to your vacuum cleaner. What could go wrong? Some of us remember the Flowbee, which had a moment in the 1990s. But now, its time has truly come: the gadget is selling out online and appears to be making a comeback. Tom McKay writes for Gizmodo. He managed to track a Flowbee down and was brave enough to give it a try. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

CO: Tom, some people might remember the As-Seen-On-TV commercial of the 1990s, which featured the Flowbee. But for those who don't, can you tell us what it is?

TOM MCKAY: Sure. So the Flowbee was invented by a California man named Rick Hunts. And basically what it is, is it is a set of pretty big clippers that has a hose attached to it. And you can just plug it into any vacuum that’s modular. Basically, the operating principle of it is it's like clippers, except you also turn on the vacuum at the same time, and it sucks all the hair down the tube and prevents from creating a mess. And the suction, supposedly, you know, it allows you to get an easier mid-length cut because it pulls the hair up and there’s spacers so that you can adjust it to the length that you want.

CO: Okay.

TM: At least, that's how it's supposed to work in principle.

CO: What inspired you to check out the Flowbee?

TM: Well, you know, like a lot of people right now, we've been under social distancing orders for a while. So impossible to get a real haircut right now. And I am a huge idiot, who did not actually get a haircut for like two and a half months before that even started. So I really needed a haircut. And for some reason, the infomercial just popped into my head one day, and I was like, huh, you know what? I could try that out.

CO: How did you even get your hands on one? I mean, since the lockdown, the Flowbee has made a big comeback. And it's a very hot item to get. It’s on backorder. [chuckling] How did you get your mitts on a Flowbee?

TM: Well, we lucked out. Because, as you said, it is completely sold out on the website. There's none on Amazon. There's a bunch on eBay, but they're running for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. We really lucked out because there was a man in Virginia, Antonio, who was listing it for 80 bucks. And we were able to just, I think the same day he listed, tried to scoop it up before someone else could. [CO cuckles] And yeah.

CO: Okay. So you got a hold of your Flowbee. You had a vacuum cleaner, I presume?

TM: Yeah.

CO: Okay, how did it go? Walk us through your haircut?

TM: Okay. So the first thing that you’re going to notice about the Flowbee is that with the vacuum also on, it's extremely loud. And the clippers are very large and unwieldy. And so it's kind of terrifying because it feels like you're going to cut off your ear. So what you do basically is you stack the spacers, and you put it on top. Any you bunny hop around, trying to get the hair to a certain length. And, you know, it worked well on top. And it sort of worked okay on the sides. What I found was that the further towards the back of my head it got, the worse the job it did. There's like an angled attachment that I don't think works very well at all. It was responsible for like totally destroying the back side of my head hair. You know, it would work better if you had an assistant or somebody to help you with it.

CO: RIght.

TM: But it occurred to me that at that point, why wouldn't you just go with clippers?

CO: [chuckling] Okay, so it's sucking the hair up, right? You get it pulled into the vacuum cleaner, and then the clippers do their work. And I guess kind of feather it. It's not just a lop off of a big chunk. It's actually trying to do a bit like what a barber would do?

TM: It takes off a fair amount at a time. I mean, it sucked up an ungodly amount of hair. I didn't even know I had that much. [CO chuckles] And, you know, without complaint. It's just that it's not very... There's not a lot of finesse to using it. I guess maybe if you were a Flowbee expert there would. But I think it's mostly just if you want to get rid of your hair and you don't have many other options, it does really just like it just like ravages your head. I mean, there's a reason that, and I guess it was also the ‘80s, but if you look at all the advertising in the commercials for it, everyone kind of has like a mullet [ both laughing]. And I think that's why.

CO: Because they're using the Flowbee?

TM: Yeah.

CO: [chuckling] Okay. Now, but actually when you think of it though, people only need the front of their hair cut properly anyways, right? It's kind of the same principle that you can wear your pyjama bottoms or even your underwear now and just put your suit jacket on top and be in your Zoom meeting, right? So you don't really have to have the back of your head even cut?

TM: You know, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, if you just wanted to cut off enough to look presentable on like a webcam meeting or something, you could pass it off as having a real haircut.

CO: [softly chuckling] Okay, just before we let you go, I understand you do have your Flowbee close by, plugged-in ready to go. Do you want to just rev it up and give us a little taste? And let that sweet sound just take us out?

TM: Sure thing. One sec.

[Sound: The Flowbee sounds pretty much like what you’d expect a vacuum-powered hair trimmer to sound like. It really sucks!]

TM: [CO chuckles] As you can hear, it sounds like it's going to kill you [laughing].

CO: Thank you very much [laughing].

TM: No problem.

CO: All right. Good talking to you. Take care.

TM: All right. Thank you, Carol. Have a great one.

CO: Bye, Tom.

TM: Bye.

CH: Tom McKay writes for Gizmodo, and is currently sporting a Flowbee System hairdo. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

[Music: Indie rock]

Part two: Sidewalk Labs, Czech mayors targeted

Sidewalk Labs

Guest: Jim Balsillie

CH: When Sidewalk Labs first shared its vision for a smart city on Toronto's waterfront, the company vowed to create a neighbourhood "from the internet up." A place where data and community worked together. Where traffic lights would respond to car and pedestrian traffic. And heated streets would melt snow on contact. But today, years later, the Alphabet subsidiary announced it's pulling the project down. According to a statement from CEO Dan Doctoroff, "unprecedented economic uncertainty," has made it impossible to proceed. But critics of the plan say it was flawed from the start — and raised concerns around data collection, privacy and digital governance. Among them is Jim Balsillie, formerly of Research In Motion. Mr. Balsillie is also the founder and chair of the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, Ontario — which is where we reached him.

CO: Mr. Balsillie, Sidewalk Labs, the CEO, expressed great personal sadness and disappointment that this project would no longer go forward. How do you feel about the news?

JIM BALSILLIE: Well, I feel very good about it. I think it's a great day for democracy and for citizenship.

CO: You have made your fortune in technology and innovation. Isn't that what this project was all about?

JB: Well, no. And I'm a great believer in technology, but I'm not a believer in technology when it modifies behaviour. And what Shoshana Zuboff properly called “surveillance capitalism”. So I believe in technology, but I don't believe in the business model of privatized smart cities.

CO: Can you just, if it's possible to put it in a nutshell, can you describe what it is that Sidewalk Labs was attempting to do on Toronto's waterfront?

JB: Well, what they were trying to do was create a city with all kinds of sensors and surveillance. And it was pitched as efficiency, but it wasn't done in a democratic way where the citizens decided what they wanted. And we did not have the governance and rules around making sure that this technology was implemented in a way that served citizens. And once you have a privately controlled smart city, there's no way you can opt-out of it.

CO: And in what way would they be under some kind of corporate surveillance?

JB: Well, you have a private company that owns the sensors and has full access to the data, and they use these with algorithms to change your behaviour. Whoever controls the data controls what it interacts with, whether it's an asset or a person. And so we've seen these surveillance capitalism companies appropriate public good for private gain. And I don't agree with that business model. And I certainly don't agree that it should be done in our cities.

CO: So basically, what you have was going to be a laboratory, as it's called Sidewalk Lab in order to watch human behaviour. But it wasn't going to be imposed on your community or on my neighbourhood. It was something where people didn't have to live there. If they wanted to be part of that, they could. So what was wrong with that?

JB: Well, first of all, it's not just that you live there. It's also if you work there. Or if you travel through it. And the original proposal that was put forward had a communications network that had a 50-kilometre diameter of communications. So it would basically catch people as they went through it. So it sounds benign, whether it's on 800 acres or twelve acres, but it really becomes the way technology of data and IP works is once you have a strong beachhead, it spreads rather seamlessly. So it really becomes our national data strategy, inevitably.

CO: So the company that was Alphabet, which is the parent company of Google, they said they wanted this. They wanted a much larger area than 12 acres, but they thought it was too difficult to make it financially viable that size. And now they say that this doesn't work at all. What do you think other reasons why they have sunk this Quayside project?

JB: Well, I think that it had gotten so mangled because of the constraints by the civic concern. There was litigation involved in it. There was requirements that the government put in that this must wait until the data governance strategies were done by the city of Toronto and by the province. So the original foisted project had a lot of hijacks on it, and not least of which was size of the land and the governance structures around it. So once those things were attenuated and containing measures were starting to take hold, then the easy run of it wasn't so easy anymore. So it tipped the calculus, for the benefit of Canadians.

CO: Right. Was there a way, though, for the benefit of Canadians that this could have been done? That would have been transparent and would not have been a mining of our intellectual property?

JB: Yeah. And also our personal autonomy with the data. No, absolutely. No, this is a lesson, a humbling lesson for Canadian policymakers. Smart cities must first be navigated between citizens and the government. And so nobody asked the citizens if they wanted this. And nobody asked them if they did want it, how would they want it to be designed? Instead, it was a decision between a secretive agency and a vendor, who they gave the vendor responsibility to design the data governance. And they put the cart before the horse here. And then they spent the rest of the project trying to cope with its downside. And that's why I tried to articulate that if you want to do a smart city, start it over and do it right. And there is a right way to do this. And there are many examples throughout the world, very much in Europe, where they've done these things right. And it's been fundamentally between citizens and their government.

CO: But, I mean, you need money, right? So Sidewalk Labs, this idea, had deep pockets. And, of course, they were going to profit on it. So how do you do that without putting a huge investment of taxpayers money into it?

JB: Well, it's important to understand that, you know, how much money was being put into it, because, you know, when it costs you your personal autonomy and it costs you your privacy and it costs you your ethics and it costs you your democracy, I would first ask the question, what is that worth? Second of all, we've seen our ability in crises when there's a need that, in fact, capital can be unleashed into our society to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars to protect us through pandemics in the short period of time, while constructing our cities for a century to come in, you know, is a worthwhile investment. And the kind of money we're talking about here isn't very much. I don't wanna be cavalier about it, but when we're doing government programs to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. And Canadians are the most urban people in the world, tied with Brazil at 80 per cent. So if we want a good, strong, prosperous society that reflects our norms for the next generations to come. This is a place we should pay proper attention.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Balsillie, thank you.

JB: The pleasure was mine, Carol.

CH: Jim Balsillie, the former Chairman and co-CEO of Research In Motion. Mr. Balsillie also founded, and is chairman of, the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, Ontario. That's where we reached him. We also requested an interview with someone from Sidewalk Labs, but that request was declined.

[Music: Sombre instrumental]

NS minister’s mother

CH: For five weeks, Tony Ince couldn't see his mother. Mr. Ince is the Minister of African Nova Scotian Affairs. And his mother, Thelma Coward-Ince, was at the Northwood long-term care home in Halifax. So the minister was in the same situation as thousands of people across the country who aren't able to visit their loved ones. Then, in April, the care home called him. They told him that it was time for him to come see her. She'd contracted COVID-19. And two days later, she died, at the age of 86. Minister Ince spoke with CBC Halifax about what that last visit meant to him.

EC: You would have been all gowned, you were wearing a mask. You were still able to hold her and kiss her?

TI: Yes. Yes.

EM: That must have been the most bizarre kind of thing?

TI: It felt really bizarre trying to kiss her through the mass and hold her and everything else. And her very limited movement. She can't move.

EC: And yet, you were able to.

TI: And I'm thankful for that because there are others who didn't have that opportunity.

[/sc]

CH: That was Tony Ince, the Minister of African Nova Scotian Affairs, speaking with the CBC's Elizabeth Chiu.

[Music: World music]

Czech mayors targeted

Guest: Zdenek Hrib

CH: A number of mayors in the Czech Republic have reasons other than a pandemic to lie low. Three are under police protection after an explosive story in a weekly newsmagazine. The paper reported that a man traveling on a Russian diplomatic passport was seen arriving in Prague carrying a suitcase containing the deadly poison Ricin, which has been used in assassinations. The Russian government has denied the allegations. Zdenek Hrib is the mayor of Prague. That's where we reached him.

CO: Mayor Hrib, how seriously are you taking this reported threat against you?

ZDENEK HRIB: Well, I'm taking it seriously, and I'm following all the recommendations that the police of the Czech Republic gave me. So I hope they will do their job well.

CO: At what point did you become concerned for your safety?

ZH: Well, it was about around the Catholic Easter when I was sort of challenged to ask for the police protection. And after they showed me the information they got, I agreed with the police protection. So, unfortunately, I can not give more details about the reasons or the specific measures that has been taken during the police protection. However, the date and the end of this has not been set up yet.

CO: You told the BBC that you believed you were being followed at some point. Is that right?

ZH: Yes, I have filed a police report. I have noticed that I'm being followed by someone close to my apartment. So if these things would be connected, it would be also a problem, not just for me, but also for my family. And that would be a big problem.

CO: When you read this story in the investigative newsmagazine, in the Czech weekly Respekt, that describes that apparently a Russian man travelling on a diplomatic passport came to Prague carrying a suitcase with poison in it. And that he was taken in a Russian embassy vehicle. Did you become even more concerned when you read that article?

ZH: Yes. Well, recently, the security committee of the Czech parliament had issued the resolution that they think that the measures taken by the police were appropriate. And they think that the information from the security service is accurate.

CO: These other mayors, also who are under police protection, and there's some concern for their safety for similar reasons, they did things that apparently were upsetting or angered Moscow and the Kremlin. What is it that you have done that seems to have disturbed those in Moscow?

ZH: Well, I don’t know. But from what I have read in the news, it seems that the thing might be the renaming of the Boris Nemtsov Square in front of the Russian embassy. But I really do not understand this because this was a reaction on the petition of our people who demanded the renaming. And the Committee for the Naming of Public Spaces in Prague have decided that there is no obstacle on the administrative for organizational level. That means that no one is already living on that place. And so nobody has to change their I.D.s or passports. And the local name under the chestnuts is still preserved in the name of the object and street. So we decided on the city council to rename this. And I really do not understand the reaction of the Russian embassy because they have fled from the representative villa to their guard house. And I really do not understand why, because why they are running away from the square that has the name of their former vice-premier. Because, after all, Vladimir Putin had also said that the the organizers of this cynic and wicked murder of Boris Nemtsov have to be punished.

CO: Well, we know that Boris Nemtsov was an opposition leader who was murdered. He did get under the skin of Vladimir Putin. They didn't like him. And you have renamed that square where the embassy is, the Russian embassy is. Is it not the case that Russia now has to change its address to be Boris Nemtsov Square?

ZH: No, I really think that there is a lot of Russians who are happy with this renaming. And it's not just Russians living in Prague. There is a substantial Russian community, but also Russians that live in Russia. And we have just joined the international initiative in this matter because the renaming took place already in Washington, Kiev or Vilnius. So we have reacted on the petition of our people.

CO: It is provocative, is it not, sir?

ZH: No. We had invited also the Russian ambassador to the ceremony, but unfortunately, he didn't respond.

CO: The provocation of renaming a square is one thing. Do you really think it's possible the Russians would do something as extreme as possibly assassinating a mayor of Prague? That would be to almost an act of war, would it not?

ZH: There are cases in the history when the Russians and their secret service has murdered citizens in other countries, most notably the Skripal case with Novacek, or Alexander Litvinenko with polonium. So there had been cases like this or similar to this. However, I just follow the recommendations of our police, and I hope, and I believe that they will do their job well. The provocation of renaming a square is one thing. Do you really think it's possible the Russians would do something as extreme as possibly assassinating a mayor of Prague? That would be to almost an act of war, would it not?

CO: We will leave it there, Mayor Hrib. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

ZH: Thank you very much for your call.

CO: Goodnight.

ZH: Bye.

CH: Zdenek Hrib is the mayor of Prague. That's where we reached him

[Music: Piano]

FOA: Group of Seven

CH: Their work hangs in galleries across the country. Schools are named after them. And the Group of Seven's contribution to Canadian art is seldom questioned. But 'twasn't ever thus. One hundred years ago today — when the Group's members opened their first joint exhibition in Toronto — they expected pushback. After all, art critic H. F. Gadsby had already dubbed them "The Hot Mush School" of painters. In an article for The Toronto Daily Star he wrote, quote, "The younger set believes in Explosions, Outbursts, and Acute Congestions of Pigments, but in drawing, Never!" One of the people who reviewed their show wrote an article entitled, "Are These New Canadian Painters Crazy?" And the consensus seemed to be that, if they were, it was in a good way. Those painters had a lot of room for other people's crazy, too. From our archives, here's part of a 1956 conversation between Group of Seven member Lawren Harris and CBC's Ron Hambleton.

[sc]

RON HAMBLETON: When you look back, Mr. Harris, and recall the active days of the Group of Seven, and recall the electrifying shock these audacious paintings had on our countrymen, does the world of art today seem relatively tame?

LAWREN HARRIS: By no means. Art today has moved into a new realm of creative expression. And the same conflict between paintings that the public accepts, and the new kinds which they do not yet accept, goes on.

RH: Well, the unusual in art is commonplace, though, when we've come through the post-impressionist, the Cubist, the Vorticists, the Dadaists and what else? It's a vortex of differing styles and mediums now.

LW: That's true enough, but new idioms and styles to express new vision, new intimations, new concepts of the world occur. But the fundamentals remain the same. The paintings must have design, organization and unity of expression before they can be works of art, no matter what the style.

RH: You mean these represent tricks of the trade?

LH: No, I wouldn't even call them tricks of the trade. Even such an extremist as Jackson Pollock is thought to be, can be, discussed in the same terms as Paul Klee or Emily Carr. That is in terms of our unified, expressive work of art.

RH: I know Pollock has a large following, but his method of laying his canvas on the floor and dribbling paint or strawberry jam over it and then embedding old posters and carpet text in it, it smacks a bit of automatism, doesn't it? Where's the artistic discipline?

LH: There may be discipline, and I still suspect there may be more in it than we can see. I withhold my judgement on this.

RH: Well, then, if these extravagances are not tricks, how can you say that conditions now are similar to conditions in the early days of the Group of Seven?

LH: Because every new movement in art has to contend with public opposition at first. The public is conditioned to older ways of seeing, and has to adjust its seeing to new and unfamiliar painting. And this is always troublesome. You proved it, you know.

RH: I did?

LH: Yes, by your reaction to Jackson Pollock. It's true. There was an almighty storm when the Group of Seven came out. We were denounced as charlatans. Today, these same paintings are called rather old fashioned by many people. You view Pollock with suspicion. In a quarter of a century from now, he will be either forgotten or a mid 20th century classic, one or the other.

[/sc]

CH: That's Group of Seven member Lawren Harris, in conversation with Ron Hambleton in January, 1956. Which is apparently long enough ago that people used to write down their conversations before they had them.

[Music: Musicbox-like instrumental]

Part three: Audiologist's mask, juggling otters, from the As It Happens archives

Audiologist’s mask

Guest: Sheri Mello

CH: Wearing masks is becoming a bigger part of this new world that we live in. Although it can still feel strange to have a conversation with someone when you can't see half of their face. And for some people, it's more than socially awkward. Dr. Sheri Mello is an audiologist in North Carolina. She's been wearing a mask. But she quickly realized that while that face guard is important in stopping the spread of COVID-19, it was causing some serious problems for her patients, who are hearing impaired. So she found a solution. We reached Dr. Sheri Mello in Raleigh, North Carolina.

CO: Dr. Mello, how quickly did you come to realize that masks would be a problem for the hearing-impaired?

SHERI MELLO: Pretty quickly, as we were staying open. We are a private audiology practise here in Raleigh. And our parking lot faces a busy street. So with the doing business curbside, we weren't allowing anybody into our office. It was fairly quickly that we figured out that the covered masks were not going to work for us since we service the hearing-impaired. And if they pulled up with the needing service to their hearing aids because the hearing aids weren't working, they were having a very difficult time understanding us.

CO: And so I can imagine there's some lip reading going on. What are the things that make it difficult for them? These are people with some hearing, I guess?

SM: Yes. So we started out with the hearing-impaired patients that we have. And the masks, covered masks, cut the volume down by ten decibels, which is quite a bit. It's takes the volume away by I would say maybe even a quarter. So there's a volume issue. And then they can't see your lips, so they can't read the lips, or they can't even see your expression. Are you smiling? Are you not? Are you having a good day? It's very hard to figure out with your emotions, you know, what they are in communicating. And that plays a huge part in communication when you can look at somebody's space and kind of know what their emotional state is in reaction to what you're saying to them.

CO: So you knew you had to do something. There had to be a solution to this. What did you find?

SM: Yes. So I knew there had to be a solution. And so what we did was as part of the audiology community, there is Facebook groups for us. And in our Facebook group, did I find a college student out of Kentucky that came up with a pattern to actually sew them. So I was able to obtain the pattern via a Facebook group. And so once I obtained the pattern, I don't sew, so I went ahead, and I pulled it together and contacted my database, which is all my patients, and kind of put a plea out there for whoever sewed. Would they be able to follow this pattern with the materials they have on hand? Because I didn’t want anybody to risk their health going out to buy fabric and elastic. And the clear piece, I just assumed that it would be a vinyl shower curtain, or maybe a sheet protector. So I told them that would be the clear part. And within a day, I got ten responses. And so we really only needed masks for our staff, which is only five of us. And we got 30 masks.

CO: Now, you say the clear part, there’s kind of a window. Can you just describe what these masks look like?

SM: So your traditional mass that you are finding now that are rectangle in shape, and then have the elastic that go around each of your ears. Picture that in a fabric, and then the elastic that goes around your ears is actually a tie. So where you would tie it on the top of your head, or near the top of your head, one tie. And the other tie is around your neck. And the purpose of that that I wanted that is because all of our hearing-impaired folks wear hearing aids that fit behind the ear. And within the first week of wearing masks, we had two calls that patients lost their hearing aid when they took their mask off in a parking lot of a grocery store. And then they were out their hearing aid. So when we decided to make these masks, we decided to use ties instead. And then there's a window in the middle of the rectangle. So say the mask is the fabric rectangle, then there's a smaller rectangle within that bigger rectangle. That's the clear part.

CO: When your clients then came back and you had those masks, what was their reaction? How did they feel about what you'd done?

SM: So they didn't know. When we had patients pull up, they didn't really know that I was doing it or obtain the masks. And so when we went out, it was just a huge difference. They could read my lips better. They kind of knew. They were kind of like, oh, my God, this is such a high-tech mask. Where did you get it? That kind of thing. And it just improved communication greatly. And so then when I went ahead and shipped the masks out for free to the first 30 patients that we felt were the most hearing-impaired, we got a huge response back of from their spouses to say, oh, this was wonderful. We actually wore it for the hearing-impaired person to read our lips. And so we got a huge response. And that's when I decided to contact the news outlets.

CO: And also, you've started getting a lot of people who could make these. How far and wide are you getting people to actually manufacture these masks?

SM: So that's the difficult part. So we have about three of our patients sewing for us. I have recruited some family members. We have one here in our neighbourhood that's doing it. And she has agreed to open up her Etsy store and put it on the website so she can take orders, because we've had such a huge response that some people want to order 40 or 50 of them, because they’re teachers, or people that are home health care people. And so they want to buy it for their staff. And so we're not set up to do that. That wasn't our intent. And so we are directing people to online stores to see if they can purchase them.

CO: I can see a lot of other applications for a mask like this. Just looking at a picture of you in the article, seeing you smiling. And I wouldn't know that if you didn't have that clear window there. So I guess it makes a big difference for all of our communications if we have to wear these things?

SM: Oh, absolutely. And I think face coverings are going to be around for quite a bit.

CO: Well done, Dr. Mello.

SM: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

SM: Bye-bye.

CH: Dr. Sheri Mello is an audiologist in Raleigh, North Carolina. And that's where we reached her.

[Music: funky beat]

SOD: Space Force

CH: It's fair to say just about everyone is yearning for a little more space right now. That may be why the U.S. military sensed it was the perfect time to launch its first-ever ad for its newest branch: the Space Force. Then again, Monday was the unofficial holiday-slash-branding opportunity known as Star Wars Day. (May the fourth be with you.) And how better to celebrate than to begin amassing your army of space soldiers? The Space Force's first mission is as vast, befuddling, and somewhat repetitive as the starry sky itself. It involves, quote, "developing military space professionals, acquiring military space systems, maturing the military doctrine for space power, and organizing space forces to present to our Combatant Commands." But, somehow, the ad makes it seem a whole lot more … metaphysical. So, strap in, our Sound of the Day in T-minus 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…

[Music: A deep melodic instrumental]

ANNOUNCER: Some people look to the stars and ask, what if? Our job is to have an answer. We have to imagine what would be imagined. Planful is possible, while it's still impossible. [inaudible radio chatter] Maybe you weren't put here just to ask the questions. Maybe you were put here to be the answer. Maybe your purpose on this planet, [rocket engine taking off] isn’t on this planet.

[/sc]

CH: Hmmm, that was the first-ever ad for the Space Force, the newest branch of the U.S. Armed Forces. And our Sound of the Day.

[Music: Funny instrumental]

Juggling otters

Guest: Mari-Lisa Allison

CH: If you've ever tried to juggle, you know it's not as easy as it looks. Which is why scientists want to know how otters learned to do it. Otters are known to juggle rocks and stones between their clawed paws. But scientists don't know why. The going theory is that it's related to hunger, and it's a way for them to practice their hunting skills. But a new study by the University of Exeter put that theory to the test — and ended up with more questions than answers on its hands. Mari-Lisa Allison is the lead author of the study. We reached her in Southampton, England.

CO: Mari-Lisa, what are we talking about when we say that otters juggle?

MARI-LISA ALLISON: Yes. It's quite commonly seen. People quite enjoy it. So what they do is they lie on their backs. So they’ll hold the pebble kind of across the chest between their paws, pull it up to their mouth and they can also do this standing. I've seen one where they're up against the fence, and they’re kind of passing it through the mesh and dropping it, catching the boss, bringing it back through, sort of rolling it around. So it’s really great to watch.

CO: How often do otters do this?

MLA: I would say pretty frequently, but it completely varies according to individuals. So when I was watching them, some would do it very frequently. And others, I didn't see it at all.

CO: I guess this juggling trick among otters has been a mystery, or been a big question mark for scientists for some time now. So what is your theory as to why they're doing it?

MLA: I think there's more than one explanation. So it might be that, you know, we're seeing this when they're hungry and that could be explained by perhaps this idea of misdirected foraging. So basically, they’re performing those actions that they would when they go to forage, but on a pebble instead. But also because we saw a lot of difference through ages, it might be that it benefits their development when they're young. But when they're old, could also help keep that brain protected against things like cognitive decline.

CO: And they can’t do crossword puzzles. So I guess this is the alternative?

MLA: [both chuckling] Yeah, you work with what you have.

CO: [chuckling] Now, okay, tell us a bit more about this idea that it might be related to them being hungry?

MLA: So otters get very excited before feeding time. They love their food. I heard of one that got so fat that she got taken out of her group to go on a diet, but she hunted mice and frogs. So she put on even more weight. They get really loud. So we thought that they did this behaviour a lot more when they were hungry because they were anticipating getting the food. They were getting really excited. So I guess it's almost like getting fidgety, and just they want that food [slight chuckle].

CO: Now, you studied these otters in captivity, right?

MLA: Yeah.

CO: Do you think that they’d have the same behaviour when they're not?

MLA: It's entirely possible. The thing with otters is they're very elusive. So it's difficult to find them in the wild. It's also difficult because play behaviour generally isn't that frequent, and it's unpredictable. So you never know if you are or aren't going to see it. And it might be so infrequent that you can't collect enough data to work with.

CO: But is it possible if they are in captivity that they're just bored?

MLA: That's always something you have to consider. But also, these otters get a lot of enrichment. Things like they get given sweeping brushes with food stuffed in it that it's got to kind of scurry through, trying to get the food. They get Tupperware boxes that they have to unclick the sides, and rip the lid open. Even like dog toys they get given. So most of the time, there's plenty of things for them to do. But they do this alongside as well.

CO: You found that it appeared to be the same with otters of different ages, but maybe for different reasons. What are you thinking there?

MLA: Yeah, so it was highest in the juvenile otters and the old otters. So we thought for those young otters, developing those foraging skills. But when they hit maturity and, you know, they're having children, you know, they've got enough to juggle [both chuckle].

CO: So they just don't have enough time to be juggling rocks as well?

MLA: And yeah, when they're old and the children have flown the nest, you can come get back to have a lot more time and energy to be able to juggle. And yeah, like I said before, it might help prevent any sort of cognitive decline, just as with Alzheimer's, you want to do reading and puzzles to try and prevent it.

CO: But otters are incredibly playful creatures anyways, aren't they?

MLA: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so like one of the smooth coated otters, she was such a character. It’s like she couldn't stay still for a minute. She'd kind of run around in circles. She'd be chasing butterflies. I even saw her climb a tree. So she is very adventurous [chuckling].

CO: Are there any other animals that juggle, as far as you know?

MLA: There's also Japanese macaques, and they perform something called stone handling. So there's a research team based in Japan, and they've been studying them. So a lot of our findings were kind of based on what they had already found. So they initially proposed for their Japanese macaques this idea of the old ones doing it to prevent that cognitive decline.

CO: And teaching the young ones some new tricks.

MLA: Yeah [CO chuckles]. Yes, they also found that the older ones, their behaviour was a lot more complex than the younger ones. So clearly they know a lot more about what they’re doing than the younger ones [chuckling].

CO: Mari-Lisa, it’s fun to talk to you. Thank you.

MLA: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

MLA: Bye.

CH: Mari-Lisa Allison is the lead author of a new study on otters and why they juggle. We reached her in Southampton, England. And, of course, we've posted video of juggling otters on our webpage, at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Obit for Marvin

CH: "A nice, gentle, old guy." That's how Lisa Young described Marvin in an interview with the CBC's David Gray. Marvin was an elk that residents of Canmore, Alberta could sometimes see roaming around the community. Marvin died earlier this month. The elk had a special relationship with Derek West's dog, Angus. In recent months, they'd started "hanging out". Here's how Mr. West described their friendship in that interview on The Calgary Eyeopener.

[sc]

DEREK WEST: You'd see Angus walking under his legs. He'd come up behind him, walk between his back legs, underneath him and out his front legs. And Marvin would just look down at him. They took the just kind of lying there standing together. And a couple of times, we caught them, it looked like they were playing tag. [Derek West and David Gray laugh]

DAVID GRAY: Angus, is a Siberian husky, right?

DW: Yeah, he is. He’s a little guy; about 80 pounds.

DG: [chuckling] Most dogs like that I know would be more happy chasing elk than hanging out with them. What was going on there?

DW: Well, I think that's one of the areas where him and Marvin shared their temperament. He's a pretty laid back dog. He gets along with everyone. He's got a couple of bird friends in the yard, and a little red squirrel that he sits and talks to, so [both laughing].

DG: All right, so he's equal opportunity. I like to hear that. But it sounds like he had a special relationship with Marvin. Is that fair to say?

DW: Yeah, he did. The two of them, Marvin was just like another big dog in the yard. And you'd see them lying together, maybe a couple of feet apart.

DG: [chuckling] Is that right?

DW: Sometimes facing each other. A couple of times actually, you know, butt-to-butt, just actually touching.

DG: Now, this, sadly, is where our story takes a turn, Derek, because I understand Marvin passed away last week in your yard. Can you tell me how that played out?

DW: Yeah, he showed up one day, like just out of the blue like he usually did. But instead of staying for a day or so, he ended up staying for four days. And each day he got progressively more and more lethargic. He was having a harder time every day standing up, to the point where, you know, he tried to get his front legs under himself and just kind of collapse and fall on his face. At the end there, Angus was just lying there beside him. Marvin just kind of lay down, stretched out under a tree in front of our patio and went to sleep in the afternoon. And he just kind of faded away over the next 12 hours. And Angus just lay there with him. He absolutely refused to leave and come in. And then at night, he stayed out with him all night.

DG: Really? So your husky actually was watching over the elk as the elk was passing away?

DW: Yeah, pretty much. He was about three feet away from him. And last I saw them together was about 1:00 in the morning when I went out to check. And Marvin was breathing very, very shallowly. And Angus just could not be coaxed away from him. He just stay there lying, watching him. So when I came out the next morning, he'd gotten up and walked over about ten feet over, and was lying under his favourite tree.

DG: Hmm, my goodness.

DW: So I guess he just stayed there until the end. Because as I say, the last I saw Marvin, he couldn't have been more than an hour or two away from the end.

DG: Wow!

[/sc]

CH: That was Derek West on "The Calgary Eyeopener" yesterday. He was talking about the relationship between his Siberian husky Angus and an elk named Marvin.

From the As It Happens Archives

CH: We know the first words Alexander Graham Bell, the inventor of the telephone said, on the first successful phone call. According to his assistant, Thomas A. Watson, Mr. Bell said: "Mr. Watson, come here, I want you!" It's hard to imagine what the mystery inventor of the Banana Surprise Yumstation said when it first successfully did the disturbing thing it does. Maybe they pulled a Dr. Frankenstein and screamed "It's ALIVE!" Or they wept and whispered, "I am become Death, destroyer of worlds." Or, most likely, they just stared at it and said [laughing], "Ewww". That was Rhik Samadder's response. Mr. Samadder reviews gadgets for the Guardian newspaper. And in 2016, his horrified review of the Banana Surprise Yumstation prompted us to give him a call, so he could relive that horror for our entertainment. From our archives, here's Carol speaking with Rhik Samadder, in October of 2016.

[sc]

CO: Rhik, what rating out of five did you give the Banana Surprise Yumstation.

RHIK SAMADDER: I gave the Banana Surprise Yumstation a hearty zero marks out of five.

CO: And why is that?

RS: Well, it was either five or nothing. There's nothing in between about this gadget. It's one of the most striking things I've ever seen. But it is also one of the most abominable and traumatizing things [CO laughing] I’ve ever tried.

CO: Just describe the device for us?

RS: Okay. So this is a banana filling machine. The purpose of this gadget is to let people fill bananas with their own kind of filling, whatever they want to fill a banana with. And what it is, is a sort of long, tubular, curved cradle that you insert a banana into, which has got a hole at the end. And then there's a selection of curved sort of straws, coring straws, that you then insert down the banana. And they’re curved, so they follow the trajectory of the banana. And then they create this well through the middle of the banana running all the way through it. And then you can use a teated bottle, which is to pump in any filling you like. So you can use toffee or cream or other fruit. On the box, they’ve pictured, I think it's jam. It looks a lot like blood [CO chuckles]. A child holding up a very blood-filled banana, which is just one of the reasons this is such a traumatizing instrument.

CO: What did you try? Did you put your favourite filling into your banana?

RS: I tried some toffee sauce. That was I'm quite ashamed to say it was not too bad, actually. I mean, it was one of the messier meals I've eaten. And I didn't feel great about myself when I was doing it. I attempted some jam as well. And that was like there'd been an emergency in an emergency room [chuckling]

CO: So it didn't strike you immediately after this, where has this been all my life? This is something that I’ve wanted. And someone has invented this for me?

RS: Well, maybe half of that. I thought, whereas it's been all my life? And how can I extend that period where I didn't have this thing? [CO chuckles]. Because it’s strange knowing I live in a world with this Banana Surprise Yumstation. And it's a very upsetting thing.

CO: Well, you said upsetting. You said in your column that it resembles my first urology kit.

RS: There's definitely something medical about it, I'd say, yeah. There's just something about the cradle, which just looks like it is meant to receive a banana or anything else you might want to shove up there. And the curved kind of straw that you pushed down the tip of the banana, they're all quite upsetting.

And there's a thing like a sort of swabbing stick that you push down the hollows of the straws to clean them. There’s a lot of plastic tubes going into things and coming out of things. And then you're pumping fluids into other fluids. And it's just a very messy, sticky, horrifying affair.

CO: You described it as a circumcision/botched injection set.

RS: [chuckle] Yes. Well, I don't really know why it's designed to look like this? I mean, actually, when you put the banana inside the Yumstation, that's their instructions, not mine. When you put the bananas inside the Yumstation, it sort of makes it quite hard to see what you're doing. You be actually better off just putting a straw down a banana in your bare hand [CO cuckling]. The fact this has been designed at all makes me think it has some dark ulterior purpose [chuckling], which I don't even want to insult.

CO: Well, you did insult. You said that this was an insult to God.

RS Yes, I do want to insult it. I don’t know. What do you say about a device that wants to improve on... What did it say on the box? A Banana has never tasted so good [CO laughing]. Yes, if that’s not an insult to God, or nature, or Gaia, whatever you believe in, then I don't know what is.

CO: But now, what's the circumcision element that you are citing here?

RS: Okay. So before you put the banana on the Yumstation, there's a little plastic knife, which is about the size of an unshelled peanut. And you have to saw through the tip of the banana, so you’ve got a flat-topped banana. And then you insert that into the device.

CO: And you can have all of this for the low price of $30?

RS: [laughing] Yes, if you've got more bananas and money than sense, then I would highly recommend you spend some of it on the Banana Surprise.

CO: Can you imagine people who would want to have this? Who would say that I can't believe how perfect this is?

RS: No, not really. I can imagine them buying it for their kids. But I think the effect it has on their kids might not be the one they're anticipating. [CO laughing deeply] It may age them quickly.

CO: Now, given that you do find the worst kitchen gadgets ever, is this the very worst kitchen gadget you've ever reviewed?

RS: It's certainly up there. There's a bit of a debate at the moment. I reviewed something called the Eggmaster last year, which is a vertical grill that you crack eggs into. And then when they took inside it and then they rise off the top of this sort of phallic tube grill like a hideous pit monster, like a long, flaccid tube of egg arising of its own volition. So I'd say it's a tie between that, the Eggmaster, and Banana Surprise Yumstation.

CO: Rhik, thank you. I'm not going to be asking for this for Christmas, but I am going to suspect that many people will, thanks to this conversation.

RS: Well, the idea of Christmas is you don't necessarily ask for what you get. You just get it.

CO: Yeah, that’s true. There’s that. All right. Yes, so I won't be shipping it over to you when I get it then.

RS: [laughing] No.

CO: Thanks, Rick. Good to talk to you.

RS: Cheers, Carol. And you, take care.

CO: Bye-bye.

CH: From our archives, that's writer and Guardian newspaper gadget reviewer Rhik Samadder, talking to Carol about the Banana Surprise Yumstation on October 27th, 2016.

May 07, 2020 Transcript

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