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The AIH Transcript for March 10, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Ahead of the curve. Kingston, Ontario, has had only one COVID death this past year, partly because its medical officer of health took decisive action while other cities were struggling with indecision.

CH: Call out and response. Yukon's health minister says the MLA who left her caucus accusing the government of failing to deal with the territory's addiction crisis, fails to recognise the efforts that are underway.

CO: Choice words. After her state governor signs a near total ban on abortions into law, the president of the Arkansas Abortion Support Network calls the decision cruel and condescending.

CH: Pause for celebration. Venezuelan's in the US are rejoicing after President Biden temporarily halts deportations to the country.

CO: The Zoom of all fears. Turns out there are evolutionary reasons why we are experiencing what's been called Zoom fatigue, and one of them is that we are facing the consequences of facing so many faces.

CH: And what a dip-sit. A man in California spends 24 hours immersed in a pool of bean dip to support his favourite Mexican restaurant and emerges with the disturbing revelation that it was one of the best feelings in the world. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that kind of wishes he hadn't spilled the beans.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Kingston made it through this pandemic year with one death. Here's why

Kingston Covid Anniversary

Guest: Kieran Moore

CH: It has been a tough year across Canada, but it's been tougher in some places than others. In Ontario and Quebec, thousands of elderly people in long term care homes have died of COVID-19. For months, people in parts of Ontario have been under a stay-at-home orders, and Montrealers have been under curfew to deal with high case counts. But Kingston, Ontario, has made it through this pandemic year relatively unscathed. The city has had only one death and it was not in a care home. Dr. Kieran Moore is the city's medical officer of health. We reached him in Kingston.

CO: Dr. Moore, we are one year into this pandemic, and in your city of Kingston you've had only one person who has died. How do you feel about that?

KIERAN MOORE: Well, we certainly are very fortunate. We're saddened that we've had even just the one death. But we have been very very fortunate and have to thank the community who have worked so hard to try to limit the spread of this virus. Obviously, it's a community effort, and I'm very proud of our entire community.

CO: Kingston is not an island, is it? It is not remote. In fact, in the middle of a very busy corridor, Toronto-Montreal corridor and so close to the US border and the crossings there. So how did you manage to keep Kingston so safe?

KM: Well, I do think it's the community. We've embraced prevention right from the start. Social and physical distancing, mask-wearing, good hand hygiene. We had a couple of scares early on in the pandemic that I think just reinforced how important prevention of the spread of COVID was. We had a early outbreak after the reopening in a nail salon that spread fairly quickly to multiple members of our community. And the research shows if the community embraces prevention early on and maintains it, that you can limit the spread. And the other piece is that public health is in the perfect position to coordinate with the healthcare system, as well as municipal partners and community partners. And that coordination, communication, collaboration has just paid off in dividends because everyone's been on the same page. We've all worked so well together as a community. And now moving forward to the immunisation strategy, I'm very confident that we're going to have a very robust immunisation strategy going forward.

CO: Okay. So I guess you're saying that you have obedient citizens. But it seems that there was a lot more involved with your success in Kingston, one of them being that, well, we know that one of the biggest areas that were hit with COVID infections in Ontario and elsewhere were long-term care homes, killed thousands of people. But you started working quite early on to secure those long-term care facilities in February, is that right?

KM: That's correct. We had been watching what was going on internationally with COVID-19 and saw the major outbreaks that occurred in the West Coast and in Washington state. And February 3rd, we held our first conference with the nurse leads, the administrators, physician leads of our long term care and said, what do you need? How can we support you? How can we prevent this virus getting into your vulnerable populations? And we came up with a game plan where our inspectors would help support them in infection prevention and control. We helped them with a robust testing strategy. We audited their best practises to ensure they felt supported, that they could don and doff the equipment appropriately. And that certainly paid off for us.

CO: Did you have any outbreaks in those facilities?

KM: We've had a few staff that turned positive and I think one patient that was positive, but otherwise no outbreaks. And as you said, no mortality associated with it. So I'm very proud of all of them. And I told them that this week when we had our most recent conference call.

CO: You also had a mandatory mask policy as early as June, which was months before the rest of Ontario. Why did you decide to do that?

KM: Well, we did that when we reviewed this outbreak. Just after the reopening in Ontario, I saw that people hadn't been adhering to the mask wearing either as employees of some of the facilities and or of clients. You know, you need to be proportionate in your response. And I thought once we had the outbreak that the community would understand the importance of the prevention strategy. And I think our community quickly realised that it will prevent the spread and it was necessary at the time. If I was smart, I would have had it well in advance of the reopening. But sometimes you need a stimulus for the community to embrace the prevention strategy, and it happened very early for us.

CO: Was it a huge advantage, though, for Kingston that a lot of your employment there is in government, government jobs and education, a lot of white collar employment that allowed people to work from home more than other places, not going to factories or meatpacking plants, which have been major sources of infection. Do you think that was an advantage you had?

KM: Oh, that is an advantage. We do, on the other hand, have colleges, universities, correction facilities and a provincial prison. We did have an outbreak at one of our federal penitentiaries and it did spread fairly significantly, but it didn't have an impact on the hospital sector and no mortality associated with it either.

CO: Why do you think that others didn't have the success? They had access to the same data that you had. They had access to the knowledge you had seeing what was happening in other countries. We could see what was coming, what could happen. All of that you've cited as the motivations for the things you put in place, other communities had that too, and yet we saw, especially in the long-term care homes, just thousands of people who died in them in other parts of your province. Is that a failure of leadership, do you think?

KM: At times. But I also have to say that we're a smaller health unit. The complexity increases dramatically when you get to large urban settings. I'm in a setting where I have 211,000 individuals I care for. I know most of the family docs. I know the emergency docs. We are well coordinated. I can call the resources or the medical director of the long-term care facility and know them by name. When you get into a large urban setting, it's much more difficult. The complexity increases, the amount of mobility, the population increases. So we're almost in a lucky position to be three hours from Montreal, two hours from Ottawa, two and a half from Toronto, and that we were somewhat insulated but always at risk.

CO: Your city is also in the Green Zone -- that's one of the very few places with that lowest restriction level in Ontario. We're now seeing the vaccines are going to people's arms. And I know that Kingston is a big tourist hub as well. Are you expecting things to be back to normal in Kingston by the summer?

KM: I really do hope. I'm so hopeful with this immunisation strategy that's being rolled out at a provincial level. The amount of vaccine seems to be increasing -- that's going to be coming in, especially in the beginning of April. So I'm very much looking hopeful to late July, early August, tourism coming back to our community in a safe manner and start our recovery process.

CO: All right. Well, then we want to share in your hope Dr. Moore. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KM: Thank you so much Carol.

CH: Dr. Kieran Moore is the medical officer of health for Kingston, Ontario, and that's where we reached him.

[Music: Drum & Bass Music]

Arkansas Abortion Law

Guest: Ali Taylor

CH: The ACLU in Arkansas has a very public message for its governor, 'We'll see you in court.' That's what the organisation's executive director said yesterday after Republican Governor Asa Hutchinson signed a near total ban on abortions into law. It's part of a push by some lawmakers in the state to try to force the U.S. Supreme Court to revisit its 1973 decision on abortion Roe v. Wade. Ali Taylor is the co-founder and president of the Arkansas Abortion Support Network. We reached her in North Little Rock, Arkansas.

CO: Ms. Taylor, what does this mean for women in your community since the governor has signed this bill.

ALI TAYLOR: At this very moment, this bill is not impacting the status of abortion in Arkansas. There is always a delay between the signing of the bill and the law actually going into effect. Our hope is that the law will be blocked and prevented from going into effect while it goes through the court system.

CO: What does this bill, Senate Bill 6, what does it do in the way of restricting abortion in Arkansas?

AT: It bans abortion completely, with the only exceptions being for life and health of the pregnant person.

CO: Governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, signed this into law even though he expressed reservations. He thought there should be some other exceptions, including in an act of rape or incest that results in a pregnancy. Why did the governor sign it despite those reservations?

AT: Well, this, as stated in the language of the bill itself, is an attempt to bring the question of abortion and legality to the Supreme Court again, even though we've had more than nearly 50 years of precedent of safe legal abortion in this country. There are people who feel that because the Supreme Court has a conservative majority once again, that the time is right to bring challenges to Roe v. Wade. And this bill is 100 percent that. That is the point behind this bill, is to try and overturn Roe v. Wade. And apparently Governor Hutchinson agrees with that effort.

CO: Roe v. Wade, of course, is the Supreme Court decision that determined legal abortion in your country. There have been other efforts to take this to the Supreme Court, to get the Supreme Court to reopen Roe v. Wade. Why is there not just this one, but other initiatives similar in other states at this point? Tell us a bit about what is behind this?

AT: I think really ever since abortion was legalised via Roe v. Wade, there have been efforts to restrict that right or flat out overturn it. A lot of people seem to believe that there is a swell of conservatism in the US and that the political climate is ripe, in particular because of three of former President Trump's appointments to the Supreme Court now being so conservative. I personally don't like to try to prognosticate about what the Supreme Court may do, but there are a lot of observers who believe that based on the precedent, based on existing law, that it is actually not very likely that the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade, nor will they uphold any of these more extreme bans on abortion.

CO: It's interesting that there was a letter that Governor Hutchinson shared with lawmakers, I understand, that this comes from lawyers, anti-abortion lawyers, who said that the chances of the bill leading to Roe being overturned were very small and remote. And we know that abortion rights lawyers are already pursuing legal actionm to challenge this bill. So do you think this is for show or do you think this is actually going to go someplace?

AT: I think that the sponsor of the bill, I think that Governor Hutchinson, I think that certainly a lot of people both in Arkansas and around the country, probably hope that it will overturn Roe. But it really appears that also this is a bit of a publicity stunt, a bit of campaign fodder for currently Senator Jason Rapert's future political aspirations. So this is, I think, without question, absolutely a publicity ploy, another notch on the campaign trail for Jason Rapert and other conservatives, conservative Republicans in the state.

CO: This senator, Senator Rapert, who sponsored the bill, he said that we must abolish abortion in this nation just as we abolished slavery in the 19th century. Why do you think he couched it in that language?

AT: I believe that he is trying very cynically and disgustingly to jump on what has been a big issue lately of racial justice, justice for the Black people of this country. And he's trying to use that to say that abortion needs to be overturned now too -- which is racist and gross and completely erases the bodily autonomy of Black women. Black women make their decisions about abortion just like everyone else and have as much right to the safe legal procedure as everyone else. And for Senator Rapert to use the spectre of our country's history of slavery to attack abortion is just wrong and awful.

CO: Just finally, we know that banning legal abortions rarely means that women stop terminating pregnancies, so they're just forced to find other ways of doing so. What are the consequences for the women in Arkansas if this actually remains law?

AT: If the law is allowed to go into effect, people will not stop trying to get abortions. We, Arkansas Abortion Support Network, will do everything we can to raise money and awareness, but mostly money to help people go out of state. We're already helping people go out of state, actually. But we would be helping all people who need abortions to go out of state. But we won't be able to reach everyone. If this law is allowed to go into effect, Arkansas's maternal mortality rate, which is already one of the highest in the country, it's absolutely shameful, but that maternal mortality rate will skyrocket and people will be injured or hurt or forced to carry and birth pregnancies that they would not have otherwise.

CO: Ms. Taylor I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AT: Thank you very much Carol. I really appreciate it as well.

CH: That was Ali Taylor, the president of the Arkansas Abortion Support Network in North Little Rock.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Bean Dip Guy

Guest: Hunter Ray Barker

CH: Hunter Ray Barker knows stunts. It's his job, he's a stuntman from Chatsworth, California, in northwest Los Angeles. So when he found out his favourite local restaurant was struggling because of COVID-19, he pulled a stunt. Starting at 9:00 a.m. Monday morning, Mr. Barker climbed into an inflatable plastic pool full of bean dip and he sat there up to his chest in the bean dip for 24 hours in support of Los Toros Mexican Restaurant. We reached Hunter Monterrey Barker at work in Chatsworth.

CO: Hunter, has your skin recovered from your 24 hour bean dip bath?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Besides being a little red from the sun, I think it looks pretty good. I also did get a tattoo of the Los Toros logo while in the bath from a local tattoo artist named Captain Todd from Nathan's Tattoo, and it's looking fantastic.

CO: While you were sitting in the bean dip, you got tattooed?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Yes, yes, tattooed with the restaurant's logo.

CO: Okay. So not only were you doing this in support of Los Toros Mexican Restaurant, you get this tattoo as well. What is it about this restaurant that made you do this?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: As you can probably guess, I love Los Toros and I've been going with my family for over 20 years. Not only that, Los Toros is a staple restaurant for the stunt community. Stunt performers have been going to Los Toros forever. And with my dad being a stunt performer, that's how we started going and very popular with the stunt folk. And back in the day the Cowboys would ride up and they would park their horses out in the parking lot.

CO: All right. And you were just in that same area where the horses used to be with your pool full of bean dip?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Yes, yes. Yes.

CO: Okay. Describe the scene. What I can see from the picture, it looks like a kid's wading pool full of bean dip, right?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Yes, yeah, the scene. So we set up at 9:30 and we had people all throughout the day, families rolling by in their cars, waving, hollering, shouting, laughing, all the above, all throughout the day. And then three to nine, Los Toros had a tailgate where people could come and check out the action, grab some food, grab a margarita. And so they were busy all day. And I mean, it was a whole lot of fun.

CO: How much bean dip were you immersed in?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Enough where it came up to my chest and my chest line, and everything below, I was fully submerged.

CO: What did it feel like?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: I mean, it was one of the best feelings in the world. When it was hot, it would feel like you're in a hot tub of beans. You know, when it got cold, it got cold. But the hot moments were just phenomenal.

CO: The hot moments didn't last that long. You were there for 24 hours, so overnight, sitting in what must have been pretty chilly bean dip at some point.

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Yes, yes. But you have to savour those good moments and I think those good moments helps the chill.

CO: And did you nod to sleep a bit as you washed yourself as a human taco in that bean dip, did you go to sleep?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: You really can't when you're that excited and you've waited this long to sit in a tub of bean dip for 24 hours, there's no chance I would think anyone would go to sleep.

CO: Okay. But you must have had to go to the bathroom from time to time.

HUNTER RAY BARKER: That was a big part of the preparation. And for a stunt like this, for number one, we used a funnel. And for number two, I switched up my diet that week and we didn't -- none of that happened.

CO: Without going into too many details, you were not eating much bean dip before you did the dip into the bean dip?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Throughout the entire day and between fasting the day before and not eating throughout the day, I did treat myself to a Los Toros meal in the evening. And I had what I've been eating there for 20 years, which is two chicken tacos, a cup of the bean dip and their famous Papa Nicks margarita.

CO: Why did you need to do this for the restaurant? Is it struggling because of the pandemic?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Last year they were having a bit of a struggle as many of the local businesses here are. But my thoughts are always that I really loved Los Toros's spirit my entire life. I mean, they have such a great energy, very very fun place to be. And so I looked at the stunt as a way to celebrate and support their spirit. As we promoted the stunt, we did traditional marketing online. But beyond that, I really just wanted to do something fun, make people smile, make people excited. And we did accomplish that that day.

CO: And do you think you helped the business?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Yeah, I think for a small stunt like this, we were able to build up their email list throughout running the promotions. And I know talking about the marketing takes some of the glamour away of something as luxurious as sitting in a tub of bean dip for 24 hours. But we were able to get hundreds of new people who signed up and are able to now forever receive all of the promos and the discounts and the deals and the fun things that Los Toros has going on. And with any marketing pursuit, that's always one of the big things that we want to succeed in doing.

CO: Have you been back to eat any more bean dip since you finished your stunt?

HUNTER RAY BARKER: I will be back tonight.

CO: All right. Enjoy. Hunter it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

HUNTER RAY BARKER: Bye now.

CH: Hunter Ray Barker sat in a pool full of bean dip for 24 hours to support his favourite restaurant. We reached him in Chatsworth, California. And for more on the story, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Zoom Fatigue

CH: Your palms are clammy, your heart is racing, with a trembling finger you tap a button and instantly your own panicky face appears before you amongst other panicky faces. You gasp, "Morning everyone. Um, like, how about this weather? Eh?" And after an agonising pause, someone says, "You're on mute." It doesn't seem like Zoom meetings should be scary. I mean, you're in your own place, you can wear your coffee-stained house pants and no one can see them. And yet everyone hates Zoom. Well, it turns out our response to this most modern of fears may have ancient roots. Jeremy Bailenson of Stanford University has just published a study entitled Non-Verbal Overload: A Theoretical Argument for the Causes of Zoom Fatigue, in which he suggests it's just not natural for us to be confronted with so many close ups of faces, including our own. He suggests that our brains, which are in many ways stupid, interpret big faces on screens as close faces, which triggers our fight or flight response. Mr. Bailenson told Business Insider, "From an evolutionary standpoint, if there was a very large human face close by to you and it was staring right in your eyes, you were likely going to engage in conflict or mating. Neither response is a good fit for a work meeting." Well, that is good advice. Also a helpful observation. Now, we know that when we're on Zoom, experiencing a close call, we really think we're experiencing a close call.

[Music: Hip-hop Music]

Part 2: Yukon Health Minister

Yukon Health Minister

Guest: Pauline Frost

CH: Yukon MLA Don Hutton thinks his territory has a problem with alcohol and drug addiction, and that the territorial government has a problem too, its not doing enough to fix the situation. Last night, Mr. Hutton told Carol how that led to his decision to quit the governing Liberals.

DON HUTTON: [SOUNDCLIP: I've struggled for four and a half years to try and get the premier and cabinet's attention to focus on the alcohol abuse and drug abuse situation that's just absolutely destroying my small community.

CO: What are people saying? What are they telling you about what they fear, what they need? What do you hear from people in your constituency?

DON HUTTON: Boy, the biggest thing I hear from people in my communities is sadness and grief and a sense of hopelessness. How can they possibly get out of this when nobody's paying any attention to it?]

CH: That's now independent MLA Don Hutton on As It Happens last night. The territorial government takes issue with Mr. Hutton's contention that it is not acting to address the addiction issue. Pauline Frost is Yukon's Health and Social Services Minister. We reached her in Whitehorse.

CO: Minister Frost, we just heard Don Hutton there saying that his constituents are feeling hopeless and that your government is not listening to them. What do you say?

PAULINE FROST: Well, first, I would like to say thank you for this opportunity to just to clarify a few things. I am also from a rural Yukon community, the only isolated rural community. So I know firsthand the challenges that we are confronted within our rural Yukon communities. And I want to validate that first of. I grew up with these same issues that have been raised. And I guess we ask ourselves and I ask myself this all the time, it's better to be involved in finding solutions than throwing up your hand and walking away from the table and not looking for solutions.

CO: Okay. But your office contacted As It Happens because you said you had to clarify a few things of what Mr. Hutton had to say. What did he get wrong, in your view?

PF: Okay first, it has been said that Yukon communities and Yukon First Nations governments, we have not been doing a lot. Well, in fact, the member for Mayo-Tatchun speaks about the mental wellness hubs well he represents the community of Carmacks and the community of Selkirk as well as the community of Mayo. And he speaks as if he's only representing Mayo in his comments and I take issue...

CO: Well no, no, I'm sorry, he did not say that. He was very clear that he represented more than that community. His remark just to to clarify this, he said that the government said that it had improved this hub by giving nurse practitioners in the town of Mayo. But he says it was to replace the local doctor when he retired. Is that the case?

PF: Well, when I understood and what I heard in the correspondences and I wanted to clarify, is that we have four mental wellness hubs, we have 22 counsellors now providing services across the Yukon, historically there were two. We've incorporated two nurse practitioners. In fact, we have many nurse practitioners now in the Yukon. And it's not intended to replace positions. It's intended to expand on the collaborative care models that medical models we have in the Yukon. And we just completed a comprehensive, thorough analysis of our medical system, our care systems and health and social services to better align with the needs of Yukoners. Four regions of the Yukon have these mental wellness hubs that have clinical psychologist and nurse practitioners that have nurse psychologists. We have now a psychologist in every community. We have a social worker in every community. We didn't have that historically. So I wanted to just clarify that the objective of the hub in Carmacks was to provide direct access and support. And I think that's really positive. It's a positive move in the right direction.

CO: Okay. But mental wellness, we know, it overlaps with issues of substance abuse, but it's not the same thing, is it? I mean, what he is specifically addressing is issues of drug and alcohol abuse that has led to what he told the CBC -- he's attended 30 funerals since 2016 among his constituency, and that there have been murders, suicides, attempted suicides, violence, drug related violence, people being shot over drugs, people being deeply affected by alcohol. That's a specific issue that he says that your government has failed to address. What do you say to that?

PF: You know, I'm not going to, I guess, dispute what Mr. Hutton is saying -- it's not my place. Our community members that we are working with, we are now recognising that there are issues in all of our communities. The pandemic has hit us hard. We've established these hubs, but they're not specifically for mental wellness. We have looked at outpatient counselling, rapid access counselling. We've looked at intensive treatment programs, day programming. We've looked at safe withdrawal supports. We have also looked at assertive community treatment teams.

CO: He points out that your government decided to lower alcohol prices during the pandemic to help local businesses, and the effect of that was to possibly increase consumption. So why did you take that step?

PF: Okay thank you. So we provided comprehensive supports to all of our local businesses to help them manage through the pandemic. Our bars and restaurants are very much of our economic industry here in the Yukon. Our bars and restaurants had to close for a huge period of time last year. So our government provided a discount on the price of liquor for these licenced establishments, essentially to help them to stay afloat rather than putting the burden on the businesses and our tourism sector.

CO: But doesn't that help them entice people into their establishments because they can give them cheaper liquor prices? Isn't that exactly what Mr. Hutton's talking about?

PF: I would suggest not. I think that the objective is not fair for them to deliver cheaper liquor prices. It's for them to keep afloat during a pandemic and support them to stay in business so that at the end of the pandemic, we can have the pleasure of going out to eat in restaurants. We can have the pleasure of them socialising again.

CO: Whatever issues you have with Mr. Hutton's interview last night on As It Happens, all he's saying is that he's very worried about people in your territory and doesn't have faith in your government anymore to do anything about it. Are you sorry to lose him?

PF: Well, I can say that I am pleased to be working with my Liberal colleagues. I'm pleased to be working toward solutions for Yukoners. I'm extremely happy with the efforts that have been put forward and the direct feedback we receive from Yukoners around the Putting People First report. I encourage you to read that -- it really highlights some solid recommendations. And we strive to serve Yukoners to the best of our ability. And if an individual chooses not to participate, that's the individual's choice.

CO: Minister, it's a simple yes or no question. Are you sorry to lose Don Hutton as an MLA in your government?

PF: I would not respond to that. You know, it's always sad when you lose a team player and someone walks away from the team, it's a sad day for everyone.

CO: We'll leave it there. Minister Frost thank you.

PF: Thank you.

CH: Pauline Frost is Yukon's Health and Social Services Minister. She was in Whitehorse.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Shahin Mehdizadeh

CH: Shannon Phillips is fed up. Earlier this week, the Alberta MLA told us she's been looking for accountability from the Lethbridge Police for years. It all started when two officers surreptitiously photographed her at a local diner in 2017 and then followed two of her companions. Later, Access to Information requests reveal that other officers had repeatedly locked up her name in police databases without stating any investigative purpose. Now, Ms. Phillips says it's past time for accountability. But time is exactly what Lethbridge Police Chief Shahin Mehdizadeh is asking for.

SHAHIN MEHDIZADEH: All I say is, as I've stated, we do take them very seriously. Information is power, when you look at it. And the police is trusted with a lot of information about our citizens that we have in our databases. And any time that trust is violated by any employee, it's a serious matter. So that's all I can provide you at this time. But again, the matter is under investigation. Let's not make judgements before we actually have the facts. And once we have them, we are going to move forward with the way that's responsible, legal, and with respect to the processes that we have in this country that we need to adhere to.

REPORTER: Allegations of these investigations may be bringing up some concerns that there's a bit of a cultural problem within the LPS?

SHAHIN MEHDIZADEH: It all depends on what you define as a culture. I truly believe in this organisation after having served six months with this group, we have a lot of great people here. There are a lot of good men and women here who protect this community every day and do a lot of wonderful things. So let's not lose sight of that. But are we a perfect organisation? No, I have not seen any perfect organisation anywhere. Do we have people who sometimes make mistakes or toxic even when you go to that level? Absolutely. So when we make judgements, let's not make judgement on the whole organisation and the institution based on the wrongdoings of a few people. Let's just focus on those wrongdoings and hold those people accountable instead of putting the whole organisation down, because a lot of good people, men and women, here are doing their best every day to serve this community. The community respects that trust, and trusts them to doing their job. So we can't really, again, judge the whole organisation, all the men and women here based on wrongdoings of a few. We just have to be open minded about that. But again, my commitment is we are working on those individuals, on those allegations, on a disciplined process to make sure we hold them accountable. And again, my only message is let's not make this into a ‘every employees problem’ here, because there are a lot of good people here.

CH: Lethbridge Police Service Chief Shahin Mehdizadeh responding to allegations that Lethbridge officers improperly monitored NDP MLA Shannon Phillips.

[Music: Synth Music]

Venezuela Deportations Stopped

Guest: Roberto Marrero

CH: Venezuelans in the US illegally can make themselves at home for the next 18 months anyway. On Monday, President Joe Biden implemented the Temporary Protected Status Order, or TPS. It gives thousands of people who fled Venezuela for the state's legal status to both stay and work in the country without fear of being deported for now. Roberto Marrero is the former chief of staff to Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, who's considered by many countries, including Canada and the US, to be Venezuela's legitimate president. We reached Mr. Marrero in Miami, Florida.

CO: Mr. Marrero, how important is it that this new policy in the United States will allow Venezuelans to stay in the US for now?

ROBERTO MARRERO: Well, that's very, very, very important. It's a big triumph for Venezuelan people because actually Venezuelan people used to be tourists, not to be immigrants. Now because the regime of Maduro put up very big crisis on Venezuela that's why we were forced to go outside to looking for opportunities.

CO: When you say looking for opportunities, then the people -- many of them who are there are concerned about going back to Nicolas Maduro's Venezuela, what would happen to them? What is the concern for people going back to their country?

RM: They make their lives at risk because there is no medicine, there are no light. For example, we have places in Venezuela where they have one day with light -- one day and a half with light. We don't have gasoline. The gas and the oil -- Venezuela used to be an oil country. Now we are not an oil country. We are only 10 percent of the production in the 20 years ago. Now in Venezuela, one litre, for example, a galloon of fuel it can be like seven dollars, eight dollars. It's too expensive.

CO: And that's not the only thing we know from the stories we have done on our show -- United Nations says that up to 94 percent of people in Venezuela are now living in poverty. They don't have enough water, food, medicine, all of this what isn't because of natural disaster, this is because of politics, right?

RM: It's a disaster, that's right. It's very hard to explain but that's the reality. Venezuela is a disaster.

CO: You yourself, you were arrested by Maduro's forces in March 2019. You spent time in what's considered to be Venezuela's largest torture centre, the prison you were in. When did you go to the United States?

RM: Yes, I was in jail for a year and a half because I was the former chief of staff for President Guaido. And Maduro put me in the jail. And after political pressures from international countries, that's what I have to say thank you to Canada for recognising Juan Guaido, recognising national assembly, recognising the crisis of the Venezuela people and supporting democracy, the United States and a lot of countries help and support and make up pressure. And that's why Maduro has to release like a hundred political prisoners. And after one month being in Venezuela, I can go away to be with my family here in Miami because my family, I get out of Venezuela two years ago before they put me in the jail because I talked to my wife "You have to go because it's a several risk for you and our son. And I have to be here with the president because we are in a compromise with the democracy and the fighting of the Venezuelan police. And that's why they put me in the jail. And I came here in October of last year.

CO: Many people believe that after you were arrested, since you were the right-hand man to Juan Guaido, recognised as the interim president by countries like Canada as you mentioned -- the suspicion was that he would be arrested next. What is happening with Mr. Guaido right now? He is in Caracas, yes?

RM: Guaido is in Caracas. He is doing a great job. He's fighting so hard for Venezuelan revelation, of Venezuelan democracy. And I think he's doing the right thing there and put a face to Maduro dictatorship, to the Maduro regime, and facing up to the world what's real happening there in Venezuela. I will say that's a year and a half in the prison is not in vain because a lot of Venezuelan people is fighting there. And I'm sure it's a matter of time that Venezuela will come back to democracy.

CO: But you know that a number of parties are saying that part of the problems Venezuelans are facing, these sanctions are creating enormous difficulty for people in Venezuela and that...

RM: That's not true. The Venezuela problem is not the sanctions. The common people in Venezuela understand it very clear, the first sanction, the most terrible problem there in Venezuela is Maduro. The honest people have no problem with these restrictions. The restriction, the biggest one is Nicolas Maduro. For example, the gasoline, the oil, it costs half a dollar a litre. The people pay two dollars. That is not sanctions, that is the corruption. The corruption is the real problem in Venezuela. We have no electricity. We have no medicines. We had no food. It is not because of the sanctions because you can buy food and you can reach Venezuela. You can go to Venezuela right now. If when I can give you some info of the food merchandise, the problem is that people have no money to buy it because they are poor people, because there's no jobs, because it's a political crisis. For example, now, one dollar in Venezuela is one billion bolivars.

CO: The New York Times is reporting that the officials who briefed them about this plan to allow Venezuelans to stay in the United States, they said that the Biden administration was reviewing whether to lift some of the economic sanctions that are possibly costing the Venezuelan government as much as 31-billion dollars. What do you say to the Biden administration?

RM: No -- Biden administration doesn't say that. That's a personal opinion. This is not the State Department's declaration. The Biden administration says the only way to make a solution in Venezuela is talking with Juan Guaido. I can give you what they say today with the ambassador of Venezuelan and United States...

CO: Just to clarify. So you are hearing differently, you are not hearing what the reporters heard in their briefing?

RM: No, because they are opinions. But the United States Department and just by the administration, it is very close supporting Juan Guaido.

CO: Do you plan to stay and live in the United States?

RM: No, I don't plan that. Actually, I am a tourist. I'm just waiting for the real time -- the second moment to do that, to go to my country and be happy with my family, my wife and my son in my country. I don't belong here.

CO: When do you think you might be able to go home?

RM: When I was in jail I would say everyday "Tomorrow, I will be free." And now I'm free. Now I say tomorrow I want to be in Venezuela and someday will be that day.

CO: Mr. Marrero I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RM: Thank you. I'm sorry for my English.

CO: Don't apologise. Thank you.

CH: Roberto Marrero is the former chief of staff to Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido. We reached him in Miami.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Tantrum

CH: Does it count as standing up for free speech if you then walk away from free speech? As we told you yesterday on the show, Piers Morgan bravely left the set of Good Morning Britain on Tuesday when he faced questioning from weather presenter Alex Beresford. Here's what it sounded like when Mr. Morgan boldly stood up for freedom of expression by cleverly pretending to have a tantrum.

ALEX BERESFORD: [SOUNDCLIP: And I understand that you've got a personal relationship with Meghan Markle or had one and she cut you off. She's entitled to cut you off if she wants to. Has she said anything about you since she cut you off? I don't think she has. But yet you continue to trash her.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay. I'm done with this.

ALEX BERESFORD: No, no, no.

PIERS MORGAN: Sorry. No.

ALEX BERESFORD: [Cross talking] No no no.

PIERS MORGAN: See you later. I'm sorry, can't do this.

ALEX BERESFORD: This is absolutely diabolical behaviour.]

CH: It turns out ITV, the broadcaster that airs Good Morning Britain, received 41,000 viewer complaints about Mr. Morgan's angry denunciations of Meghan Markle, which included his insistence that he didn't believe she had had thoughts of suicide. And after network executives asked him to stop spouting opinions that were uninformed, biased, and worst of all, potentially dangerous, he courageously announced he was leaving the program forever. And then today he tweeted about his own courage, including some words from his hero, the man who walked off the set of his own show when someone criticised him, tweeted a Winston Churchill quote, which goes, "Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like. But if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage."

[Music: Calm Music]

Part 3: Prince Rupert Vaccinations

Prince Rupert Vaccinations

Guest: Blair Mirau

CH: For most Canadians, the prospect of a largely post-pandemic Fall is currently the light at the end of a long, dark tunnel. But residents of Prince Rupert, British Columbia, could be looking at a post-pandemic spring. Yesterday, the province's Northern Health Authority announced it plans to offer every adult in Prince Rupert a COVID-19 vaccination by April 1st. That is a mere three weeks from today. The plan has made the city the envy of the province and the country. And city councillor Blair Mirau says it just makes sense from every angle. We reached Mr. Mirau in Prince Rupert.

CO: Blair, what is the mood in Prince Rupert in the wake of this news?

BLAIR MIRAU: I think the obvious is we are all incredibly thankful and grateful to everyone involved in the provincial and Northern Health teams to make this rollout happen so quickly for our community.

CO: What are they saying, though? In three weeks you expect to have everybody vaccinated?

BM: Yeah. And just yesterday, you know, we've been told for months to expect people like myself under the age of 35 not to receive your first shot until September, and second shot in October. And with their press release yesterday, that's changed everything. Now, I can be expecting to make my appointment next Thursday. So we're all still, I think, a little bit shell shocked and absorbing the news, but obviously incredibly grateful.

CO: Okay. So you can imagine a lot of people and the rest of British Columbia and also Canada are kind of scratching their heads and saying, why is your vaccination timeline so different from everybody else's?

BM: And I appreciate the thought and I understand the criticism. I mean, Prince Rupert right now has some of the highest per capita case counts in the province. We've seen the tragic deaths of 14 of our loved ones in long-term care with numerous active exposure advisories in our schools and our homeless shelters. So, first of all, it's obviously a very tenuous situation here in Prince Rupert But we do have some unique circumstances that I think are worth noting. The insinuation that somehow our community is being rewarded for bad behaviour is just totally wrong. Looking back a year, almost exactly a year to the day, Prince Rupert was one of the few, if not the only municipality to declare a local state of emergency in BC that was subsequently rescinded by the province. Back then, we actually tried to extend the 14-day isolation period beyond just international travellers to anyone leaving Prince Rupert, but also to anyone visiting a higher risk jurisdiction. I mean, we only have flights in and out of principle to Vancouver, which at that time was the hotspot in the province. We all understood that our regional hospital could only handle a few critical cases at a time and not a big wave associated from a major outbreak.

CO: So you put things in place to make to get ahead of the curve there at the beginning?

BM: Yeah. And I think unlike other cities that have seen anti-masking and anti-lockdown protests, the majority of Rupert-ites were asking us in leadership to be much more stringent. And since the pandemic was declared, our city's been incredibly diligent in following Dr. Bonnie Henry's recommendations, with very few exceptions. And I think the evidence of that is that we've had virtually zero confirmed cases of community transmission almost all the way through 2020.

CO: Okay. But you mentioned that the criticisms that you're being rewarded and that is something that people have accused British Columbia's Northern Health Authority of rewarding your city and claiming that people have disobeyed public health guidelines. You say that's not the case. So why are your rates so high? Why have they been so high so recently?

BM: I would say the accusation is false. People making that accusation don't understand the reality on the ground. There's a couple of things to be aware of. So the first and most important of which is, we're a rural and remote community with very limited health care resources that were already operating over capacity for the pandemic. We have some of the highest rates of poverty and vulnerability indicators in the entire province, which we know is a contributing risk factor. We also have the second highest proportion of Indigenous residents of any city in Canada other than Winnipeg. And we know that they have been disproportionately impacted by this pandemic. And if you've seen just a couple of months ago, Northern Health actually had to announce that they're not able to contact-trace anyone other than high risk groups, which means that if you test positive, you've been having to do your own contact tracing and notifications while also grappling with the virus. So we're acutely aware that living in the north means we don't have access to the same level of health care services as the Lower Mainland. But people need to realise part of this is actually timing. We've gotten through almost all of 2020 being incredibly diligent, but it just so happens that these clusters in Prince Rupert have cropped up virtually at the exact same time that the Canadian and BC vaccine rollout is accelerating as we receive more vaccine supply.

CO: And you had this issue at the Prince Rupert's Acropolis Manor long-term care facility, right? That was one of the reasons for this spike. Is that correct?

BM: Absolutely. Yes, so from my understanding, there's been 14 deaths in that home, as well as two dozen staff testing positive, which is obviously created significant issues in trying to manage that outbreak.

CO: What is the plan for getting everyone vaccinated? How are you going to do that with a population of 12,000 people?

BM: Well, it's a great question. And from my understanding, this is the first time it's going to be tried in Canada to try to roll out to an entire community in such a short period of time. The city of Prince Rupert has donated the use of the local civic centre, which is a large enough venue that we think we can maintain physical distancing and get a critical mass of people through over the next coming weeks. And again, going in the order of priority by age, appointments are going to open up a couple of days in advance. So if you're setting your appointment, you'll have a couple of days notice before you're going in to be vaccinated. So we're not expecting perfection, I think that's unrealistic, but we can hope for the best and plan for the worst, obviously being that there is some significant logistical challenges of delivering a vaccine that requires such cold storage temperatures in a rural and remote community like ours.

CO: Everybody has an idea in their heads as to what they're going to do, what they imagine, something they have been longing to do and will do as soon as they're vaccinated as soon as this is over. What is in your mind? What are you hoping that you can finally do?

BM: Well, for me, on a personal level, my wife and I had our first child in May -- right at the start of the pandemic. And it's been actually quite tough being isolated and not being able to see our grandparents as much as we might want or our friends and neighbours. There's quite a few new kids on the block, so to speak, and it'll be great once everyone's had their second shot. And a couple of weeks after that, we may be able to start opening up and actually see our friends and family again.

CO: All right. That is an image we all are thinking about. Blair it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

BM: Thanks so much Carol.

CH: Blair Mirau is a city councillor in Prince Rupert and the CEO of the Gitmaxmak'ay Nisga'a Society. We reached him in Prince Rupert, BC.

[Music: Calm Music]

Pending Mail

CH: We're all feeling a bit boxed-in these days, but Ryan Hill feels that very literally. Mr. Hill is the Canadian owner of DetroitMailbox.com. It's an address in Detroit that a lot of Canadians used to receive US mail or packages. He started the business a decade ago when everything went great until the border closure, which prevented Canadians from travelling to the States while their packages just kept coming.

RYAN HILL: It was just my friends just driving me crazy. I would say on an average day I was bringing four to five parcels home for family or friends. And really I got frustrated with it. It was one of those things where I said, you know what, guys? I'm going to start a website, I am going to start a service, start using that. Leave me alone. And I'm happy to say, as of 10 years, it's been and we've verified it, we have over 65,000 customers in our database.

TONY DOUCETTE: So where are all of your Canadian customers from?

RYAN HILL: We have customers all the way up to London, Toronto. The majority are Essex County, Kent County. They would just basically come over and have dinner, have lunch, pick up their parcels, anything like, again, they couldn't get in Canada and bring them back.

TONY DOUCETTE: So who's picking up stuff now?

RYAN HILL: No one. [Chuckles] No, there is. Like I said, the people that have status, people that are deemed essential, workers that come pick up their own parcels and maybe for friends and family, I think that's allowed. But besides that, it's been quite a year. I would probably say we have three to four people a day coming in when we used to have maybe 100 to 200 people coming in a day.

TONY DOUCETTE: So how much mail do you have piled up?

RYAN HILL: [Chuckles] It's not so much the mail, it's the parcels. I mean, we had a massage chair delivered the other day that was in a crate that got dropped off in front of our building. So we're busting at the seams. We did move to another location and we have over 2500 square feet, we have eight foot ceilings and we are jammed right to the top with everything. Our lobby area, which used to be for customers, it's no longer -- it's for larger parcels, tires and stuff like that. I actually bought another location just for overflow, that's how many parcels we have and how much mail we have.

TONY DOUCETTE: How much room do you have left in the overflow that you've acquired?

RYAN HILL: Oh, we're good on that one. That's for the bigger parcels. The smaller stuff, the day to day, you know, the smaller boxes from Amazon and whatnot are still going to the main location. But until this pandemic is over, until the border lifts, I just had to do something and the one option was I'm not sending these parcels back because the customers trust us to secure and keep their parcels safe. So we had to get creative.

TONY DOUCETTE: Give me some sense of how long you've been holding some of this material.

RYAN HILL: Over a year and a half in some cases.

TONY DOUCETTE: What are you expecting is going to happen when the border reopens?

RYAN HILL: Chaos. I'm getting phone calls, personal messages on Facebook, you know, enquiries about whether or not we are going to ship parcels back. There's going to be a huge rush, I know that. And when that happens, we're going to be ready.

CH: That was Ryan Hill speaking with Tony Doucette, host of CBC's Windsor Morning. Mr. Hill runs a depot in Detroit, Michigan, a place where Canadians can pick up US mail or packages. With the border closure his facility is floor to ceiling full of packages.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Lost Wallet

CH: Bill LeClair's wallet was stolen in Calgary back in the mid 1980s. So after a while he figured it was gone for good. And after a while longer, he forgot about it completely. He was only reminded it had ever been gone when that long lost wallet found its way back to him after 37 years.

BILL LECLAIR: I'm working from home, so I get a call from my receptionist telling me that this gentleman had returned my wallet. And I thought to myself, "What wallet are we talking about?" You know, I haven't lost a wallet. So anyway, I went to the office about a week ago because I was curious and she handed me an envelope. So I opened and it was my wallet that was stolen from me years ago. Now, I didn't know exactly what year, so I opened and I saw where I had all my cards in it. And remember back then if you had a savings account, you had your calculator, you had a little book. And I looked at it. I had my credit cards -- my credit card, my bank card, my Law Society of Alberta card, health care card, all kinds of things and a pin. So I thought to myself, what is this? And from the date I figured this was 1984. I had been working in a downtown law firm and one morning I was out of my office, I came back and my paralegal said to me, she said Bill something weird happened here. She said a guy came in with construction clothes on. He walked into your office, shut the door, and we went in to find out what was going on. And he was fiddling around with your plant. And when we talked to him, he said,"Oh I'm just checking the moisture in your plant." So when I heard this, I thought, uh-oh. So I checked my suit jacket, which was hanging up behind the door, and sure enough, my wallet was gone. And I thought, oh my heavens, I'm never going to see this thing again. So that was cool.

DAVID GRAY: So that was the mid 80s. Okay keep going.

BILL LECLAIR: Yeah that was 1984. So the guy that returned it was Brian Westergard. And I phoned Brian because he had left his name and his phone number. I said, Brian, where did you find this thing? Like what's this story from your end? And he said, well there's renovations going on at the Barron Building, which basically was one block from my office building in the mid-1980s. And he said we had people in, the place was stripped right down to the studs. And he said after all of this had happened, he said, I walked into the building, there was debris sitting in a pile. And he said, I saw a wallet. He said, I saw a whole bunch of cards spread out around the wallet. So I picked the wallet up and he said, I figured, I'm going to have to find this guy and return the wallet. [Laughter] I said, okay. I said really. And he returned it.

CH: That was Calgary lawyer Bill LeClair speaking with David Gray, host of the Calgary Eyeopener. Someone just returned Mr. LeClair's wallet, which was stolen from him 37 years ago.

[Music: Drum Music]

NYPD Misconduct Records

Guest: Lumumba Bandele

CH: The people of New York demanded transparency and accountability. And the city's mayor and police commissioner claimed they're ready to provide it. This week on its website, the NYPD published a searchable database of police officers disciplinary records. That's a response to protests in the city and across the United States last year -- the same protests that convinced New York state lawmakers to scrap a law that had sealed police disciplinary records from public view. Lumumba Bandele took part in last year's protests, and he is not satisfied with the information the database provides. Mr. Bandele is the spokesperson for an activist organisation called Communities United for Police Reform. We reached him in Brooklyn.

CO: Mr. Bandele, your mayor, your police commissioner of your city, says this new database demonstrates, "transparency and accountability" of the New York Police Department. What does it demonstrate to you?

LUMUMBA BANDELE: It demonstrates more diversions and tactics to prevent transparency and accountability by the NYPD. What the NYPD has shown and the mayor's administration in this new database is a select few records of police officers. It is not the totality of what we've been asking for. In fact, what they have selected are including commendations that have been made to police officers. So it's really a PR stunt.

CO: But it does show --I mean, there are now an online dashboard with profiles of the 35,000 officers on the force. It does show those cases where there has been a complaint that has resulted in discipline, does it not?

LB: Well, it resulted in discipline, but it doesn't show the complaint itself -- that's part of the challenge that we're dealing with. If you are able to get discipline from a complaint, that's a huge victory in New York City. Most police officers receive complaints regularly but are never disciplined. So the disproportionate amount of complaints never go answered. And that's what we're trying to get. Who are the officers who have reported and documented complaints against them, whether they are disciplined or not? And how are we able to track who they are, where they are?

CO: And what do you think would be in these databases if you could see that?

LB: I am a lifelong New Yorker and I can tell you the number of complaints that I have waged against police officers in my own community would probably be reflective of what we would see. Verbal abuse, physical abuse, unlawful, unwarranted arrests -- the list would go on and on. And these are the very basic things that led us to file lawsuits around racial profiling, stop and frisk. Those things have never stopped. They continue. And so when people continue to be victimised by those who have the ability, who are able to file complaints are frustrated because those complaints typically go nowhere.

CO: But they have released the data of what disciplines have happened. Is that what you're saying?

LB: Some. And I'm not convinced that this is all of the discipline.

CO: This flows from a section of the civil rights law in New York where there's something called 50A, I understand that has meant that has prevented the public from seeing disciplinary records. What happens in other jurisdictions, other cities in the United States?

LB: Other jurisdictions don't have this level of secrecy over disciplinary records in some ways in which you can [inaudible] some of these records. There are some ways in which the administration would provide it, but 50A was never written to actually conceal these kinds of records. It was really written to prevent personal documents and records from becoming public, not personnel records, not disciplinary performance records.

CO: And so how difficult has it been to get this changed then?

LB: It's been difficult. What's important, however, is that it's only until the de Blasio administration has this particular 50A ban interpreted to the degree where police records will be covered up to this degree. It hadn't been done like that previously. So even in the Giuliani administration, which is hugely ironic, we were able to access some of the disciplinary records. But with the de Blasio administration, all of them have been sealed.

CO: But I wonder if a little bit of a window that's been opened here, is it related to the years of protests we've just recently seen in the United States? Do you think that you are starting to shake some of this information loose from the New York Police?

LB: Absolutely. That is part of it. And it also sets a bad precedent because we see that the only kind of substantial progress can be made is when there are uprisings all over the country. So if that is the precedent, then we are saying that the NYPD would rather wait for there to be massive protests, massive uprisings before they begin to move in the right direction.

CO: But if you've had those protests, so much has been revealed recently about what the relationship between police and people on the street -- and if you can't get any further than this, do you think it's possible to get any more disclosure?

LB: We do. But we also know that this is just but one avenue that we were pursuing. Essentially, we really want to see a huge reallocation of resources from the police department to be sent to human services, which really is about the idea of making true community safety. In actuality, police have never provided safety for New York City. That has not been a reality for our community.

CO: But that's what the police union is saying is the issue here. They said that the ulterior motive is to defund the police. That's their claim.

LB: It's actually both. We actually want -- and it's not just, we want more than. We absolutely want and demand and deserve transparency. Imagine if these were health professionals. Imagine if health professionals were able to get away with malpractice, were able to get away with the deaths of so many people. These doctors would not be able to practise. But the fact that the NYPD, the fact that they are law enforcement, they feel like they're protected, they feel like they don't have to reveal these kinds of histories. And we are saying that that's absolutely not true and that the public deserves to see who are the people that are patrolling the streets, who are the people that are disproportionately arresting, harassing, abusing our communities? Who are these people that continue to get away with this? That's absolutely something that we all deserve.

CO: Mr. Bandele, I appreciate you coming on the program. Thank you.

LB: Thank you so much.

CH: Lumumba Bandele is the spokesperson for Communities United for Police Reform. He's in Brooklyn, New York.

[Music: Hip-hop Music]

Jean Romero

CH: Families at a residential building in Saskatoon are receiving bills for an issue that was not their fault in the service they never called for. Back in January, there was a carbon monoxide leak at the apartment complex. The leak, which originated from the building's boiler room, sent all 29 residents scrambling out of their homes. Fortunately, paramedics and firefighters were already at the scene to help. The firefighters tackled the gas leak while the paramedics drove people to the hospital. Unfortunately, what they thought was a free emergency service has now ended up costing residents thousands of dollars. CBC Saskatoon spoke to one resident about her unforeseen bill and the predicament many people in her building have found themselves in. Here's Jean Romero with her story.

JEAN ROMERO: We have a group chat and everybody was saying like, "Oh did you receive a bill from the ambulance?" I said, what bill? Then of course, I check my mailbox and there comes the bill. So I know I have insurance, but it's just like, why do we have to pick up the bills? Right. We phoned Main Street or some of our group emailed them, emailed the BP or something from Main Street, and they said, oh, do you have extra insurance or do you have your own insurance? Well, of course, no. Some don't have insurance at all. They are new in the country. So they're kind of worried about it too. It was something because we didn't ask for the ambulance They are checking everybody and they said, oh, go to the big ambulance and get yourself checked. So I told my husband, you go and the kids -- of course, their [inaudible] was six, seven or eight or something like that. Then myself, I drove to the hospital. For my husband it's 325. My daughter is 325. My son, he is only 13, his is half the price: 150. And because I drove myself I didn't get no bill. But we only know that we have to pay -- I drove myself there. So we don't really need the ambulance. We only know that we have to pay because some of our neighbours were driven by their family to the hospital. But we were not told we have to pay. I don't know if we can get away with it. So if there's another way that we don't have to pay because it wasn't something that, you know, that we phoned and it's just an emergency. Everybody came and we were told to get ourselves checked. So we went to the ambulance not knowing. All of a sudden we got a bill.

CH: That was Jean Romero speaking to CBC Saskatoon this morning.

[Music: Pop Music]

Lou Ottens

CH: Early in the 1960s, Lou Ottens was annoyed. The Dutch engineer was heading up product development at Philips, he liked the job. What he didn't like was working with those big reel to reel audio systems, which he found clunky. He decided audio recordings should be small enough to fit in your pocket. And before long, he and his team had made the first ever cassette tape using a wooden prototype as a model. The miniaturised reel to reel in the hard plastic case would go on to have an outsized cultural impact, putting music in the hands of those who make it and those who listen to it, making it accessible in a whole new way and providing the basis for millions of high school romances in the form of the carefully curated mixtape. Lou Ottens died this past weekend. He was 94 years old. He was famously unsentimental about his invention. In fact, Mr. Ottens went on to develop the technology that he hoped would make cassette tapes obsolete, the CD, which he considered a superior and all around more reliable product. But despite his best efforts, cassette culture is on the rise again, which had him wondering if proponents were truly of sound mind.

March 10, 2021 Episode Transcript

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