Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2016

The AIH Transcript for January 12, 2016

Hosts: Helen Mann and Angeline Tetteth-Wayoe

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello I'm Helen Mann sitting in for Carol off. Good evening.

I'm Angeline Tetteth-Wayoe. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

ATW: Tonight:

HM: A reverend in Charleston South Carolina is relieved the trial is finally over. After the white supremacist who murdered his wife and eight others at the Mother Emanuel A-M-E Church is sentenced to death.

ATW: Road sage. A traffic expert studies those jerks who wait until the last moment before swerving their cars into your lane. And he says that science shows their right.

HM: What else could he do? Arthur Manuel’s sister remembers the First Nations leader as a man whose passion for both his family and his people would know no end.

ATW: Red neck. Things get hairy in Westminster as the Speaker of the British House gets a lesson on discrimination and the importance of kiss a ginger day.

HM: I told you it was pronounced “Downtown Abbey”. A Hamilton impresario recreates the costume drama only he calls it “Downton alley” and it stars a bunch of well-dressed rats.

ATW: And air traffic sous-sol. A Calgary man invites us to take our seats as he prepares for takeoff in the replica of a 747 cockpit that he's built in his basement. As It Happens the Thursday edition, radio that always tries to stay grounded.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Charleston verdict, zipper merge, 747 simulator pilot

Charleston verdict

Guest: Anthony Thompson

ATW: Throughout the trial, he offered no defense, no apology, no remorse. And so yesterday a judge in Charleston South Carolina formalized the jury's verdict and sentenced Dylann Roof to death. It has been a year and a half since the young white supremacist walked into the Mother Emanuel A-M-E Church, attended a prayer meeting and then murdered nine parishioners. The death sentence may be a relief for some, but many of the victims’ relatives are deeply opposed to the death penalty. Reverend Anthony Thompson's wife Myra was one of the parishioners who was killed. We reached Reverend Thompson in Charleston.

HM: Reverend Thompson, first of all I just like to say I'm sorry for your loss.

ANTHONY THOMPSON: Thank you.

HM: It's been I guess 19 months almost since you lost your wife and then you've had to spend this time in court. How are you holding up today?

AT: Well, it's been really tough. And it still is you know right now because you know being there we've been so busy since that day. You know up until this very day you know being at the trial just yesterday. We’re just in a state of probably being able to mourn now because we haven't had the opportunity to do that even though there were some tough days. And you know I've cried here and there. I haven't really mourned the death of my wife because I just haven't had the time.

HM: What was the first thing that that went through your mind when you heard the jury and heard the judge deliver that sentence from a jury of the death penalty?

AT: Well, I was fine. You know just that it was over. You know the trial, talking to attorneys, being in court and in all these meetings you know had finally come to an end. It wasn't so much about the sentence you know because I do not believe in the death penalty. If I had my way he would have gotten a life sentence. But being that I had no control over you know the process of the court of the deliberations of the jury, he received I guess what he was supposed to get. That was the death penalty.

HM: What was the reaction of some of the other victims’ family members? Do they share your views do you think?

AT: Well, you know just some of the expressions and some of the little things that we you know we talked about you know there were some people were just like me, who did not believe in the death penalty. But accepted this know because they call it justice. Though all of us were relieved I mean really relieved. Some of the people in court they were actually glad he got the death per day. They were saying they wish he’d go to hell. You know a lot of people were very bitter and still haven't got to the forgiving stage.

HM: All right. You know a lot of people remember his first court appearance, Dylann Roof’s first court appearance because some of the victims’ families actually shouted out that they forgave him. That made worldwide news a lot of people maybe couldn't get their heads around that?

AT: Well I did at the bond hearing. I was one of those people you know at the bond hearing. I you know I had no intentions of even going to the bond hearing. But I went because my children wanted to go. I went with the intention of not saying anything and I adamantly instructed them not to say anything, but when I got there God had other intentions. I mean he literally came and told me he had something to say and I got up and said exactly what he told me. I said, “I forgive you. My family forgive you, but you need to repent. You need to confess. Cause you’re in a lot of trouble right now. But if you give your life to the one your life means the most to. You going to be OK.” And that’s all God said.

HM: And yet throughout this trial he appeared unrepentant wondering how hard that was to sit through there when he kept reasserting his hate and said very clearly that he had no remorse?

AT: I was in awe. It made me angry because I just kind of imagine after being in jail for so long you still have no remorse, no intention of saying he was sorry, but quite the opposite. Yeah, it made me angry, but I forgave him and that's it. I didn't take that back and it didn’t make me not want to forgive him. It didn’t make me wish I didn't forgive him. You know I still feel the same way. I was just in awe to know and just kind of wonder how could a human being not have a conscience after being able to sit in jail for a while and hopefully think about what he did. I thought he was like me or somebody else. But then I really saw him for who he is. And he's just evil. I mean he's just evil, but I have peace because I felt that peace just as soon as I forgave him at that bond hearing and said what the Lord told me to say, my peace began then.

HM: You testified at the sentencing. What did you want Dylann Roof, what did you want the other people gathered in that courtroom to know about your wife Myra?

AT: Well, I wanted them to know first of all that she was a person. I wanted them to really know in a general sense who she was so that they can realize the loss not only in my life and the life of my children, but the loss in the life of the community and her church. You know where she was so much needed, where she gave so much of her time, effort and money and everything that she could she just poured her heart out in it. I wanted them to understand that you know she just wasn't a person who was born and did nothing. But she was a person who was born and did everything he possibly can in her power and with the time that God allow her to you know. I mean she just gave her whole life.

HM: You showed a photo of your wedding day. Will you share with us what you said about that?

AT: Well, it was a little funny you know I told them that you know she was such a beautiful bride. I mean she was beautiful anyway. But that particular day she was just more beautiful and more radiant that I had ever seen before. And while she was coming down the aisle she sort of tripped and when she got to me I asked her what happened and she said she thought about changing her mind.

[Sound: Laughing]

AT: And so we laughed about that that and then when it was time for me to say I do. I was just so happy and so excited. I mean you're so peaceful and full of joy that I started crying you know because of the fact that she married me because she was the woman I wanted, the woman I prayed for and she looked at me and she said what are you crying for? I said what do you think? And she said well you better perk up because we got to get this over with.

HM: She sounds like she had a great sense of humor?

AT: Yes she did.

HM: Now that this trial and sentencing are done and you've told us how you’re sort of feeling the sense of relief. There will almost certainly be appeals I mean what's next for you. Have you prepared yourself for that?

AT: I'm not concerned about that. That's a process. I understood that would happen. You know that's his problem. He's you know he has to do what he will have to do. And so that’s his concern and that’s not going to be a part of my life nor my children’s life. We're going to go on and redefine our lives and grow closer and just go going on to make things better.

HM: Reverend Thompson, I'm so grateful for you speaking with us today. Thank you very much.

AT: You're welcome.

HM: All the best to you.

AT: OK. God bless you.

HM: Thank you. Bye bye.

AT: Bye bye.

ATW: Reverend Anthony Thompson is in Charleston, South Carolina. His wife Myra was murdered along with eight others at Mother Emanuel A-M-E Church in June 2015. This week, their killer Dylann Roof, received the death penalty.

[Music: Here Comes the Flood/ Rock]

Zipper Merge

Guest: Jeff Kasbrick

ATW: You may call him a jerk, shoot him a dirty look or even raise your hand in derision. But Jeff Kasbrick of the Alberta Motor Association doesn't care. He's trying to get Canadian drivers to end a longstanding taboo. The scene goes like this. You're on a two lane road. It narrows to one lane ahead. Most of us will join the lane that's not blocked as soon as possible, but that's not what Mr. Kasbrick recommends. He wants us to drive to the end, then throw on our blinkers and then duck into the lane just as it's coming to an end. He calls it the “Zipper Merge” and says science is on his side. We reached Jeff Kasbrick in Edmonton.

HM: Jeff Kasbrick, what is the “Zipper Merge”?

JEFF KASBRICK: “Zipper Merge”, Helen, is everything about making sure that we are maximizing both lanes as we approach a merge point. So as you're looking ahead on the road and you see a lane that is about ready to be closed off we're wanting to use both lanes. But then the key is this is that once you get to that merge point that drivers are being courteous to one another and were alternating lanes in who is able to get through and what it is essentially creates are the teeth of a zipper coming together one side after another and a smooth process of merging.

HM: So don't the vast majority of people when they see that traffic is going to be narrowing down to one or two lanes they move over right away?

JK: You're absolutely right. So this is a little counterintuitive from what it is that we know and from what many of us actually do. You see a lane that's closing ahead and you want to get out of that lane and stay in the lane that you know is staying open. However, merging areas are actually designed to utilize and maximize both lanes and if you're able to do that you do create a bit of a sequencing and not as many changes in speed that we sometimes see at merge points. And what we actually have seen from some of the research is if we're able to do this right it can actually reduce congestion at certain bottleneck points by up to 40 per cent which is pretty substantial.

HM: So you're telling me that that person the way it's the very last minute to get in is not a total jerk?

JK: Well, you know we've all been there haven't we?

HM: Oh yeah.

JK: There's two camps of people right? Those that line up right away they're being very patient and then perhaps they're muttering underneath their breath to the driver that's whizzing by in the other lane or there are some people that we see and you know they're maybe hanging their head in shame or their guilt ridden because they're going to the front of the line. But what we actually know from some of the traffic research is that if we utilize both lanes and we're doing it right and we're also courteous as drivers to one another. Ultimately we'll all be able to get to our destination a little bit quicker.

HM: That courteous thing I would imagine is often a problem though it's not really ever going to happen is it?

JK: Well, see this is the thing. Is that driving is so much about how it is that roads are designed, but then a vast majority of it is behavioral and it's about how it is that we're conducting ourselves when it is that we're behind the wheel. And we ultimately need to remind ourselves on a constant basis that we all have the same goal in mind. We all want to drive safely to our destinations and that we're all part of this driving community together.

HM: But you're counting on people to let other folks cut in front of them often in rush hour?

JK: Well, see this is the thing is it's not necessarily cutting in front as if we're doing the “Zipper Merge correctly.

HM: Oh, my language is betraying me. [Sound: Laughing].

JK: You are quite right. We're going a little against intuition and if somebody has been sitting in that line up for a little while. But if we can maximize both lanes it's just one other technique that we can use when it is that we're behind the wheel.

HM: Is this the law anywhere in Canada?

JK: It's not necessarily the law, but it's also not illegal. Some believe that it's illegal to rush ahead. However, that's absolutely not the case. It's not the law because merge points are designed to be that way and to allow for maximum use of both lanes.

HM: Do you think people are aware of this? That it makes sense to do this?

JK: What we actually just recently saw was an online poll that was conducted that had a split 50/50. There were 50 per cent of people that were absolutely right about staying in a lane before it closes off and then there were 50 per cent of people saying that they like to line up and that they believe that's the right and more patient thing to do. At the end of the day, for most of us driving is a daily activity that we invest a lot of time in our lives towards. So isn't it right for us to always be open to new ideas and to always be committed to refreshing our driving knowledge and skill along the way?

HM: You are an idealist.

JK: There is a little bit of idealism into this. I absolutely recognize that as I said driving is such a behavioral thing. And so it really is this tension point between theory of driving and what we actually see sometimes in practice. But by having some of these conversations, being open to new concepts, don't we all want to move towards a little bit more idealism?

HM: I am assuming you practiced this yourself?

JK: You know I actually do, but I will admit that I have had a coming of age if you will. That at one point in time I was a line upper and I was as I said muttering underneath my breath to those that were maybe passing by me in the other lane. However, now I hold my head high without any shame because I know what the research tells me.

HM: You must get a lot of dirty looks though?

JK: Well, but you know I'm focused straight ahead on the road. I'm a good motorist paying attention to what's ahead of me. So what people do that I don't know, Helen.

HM: They don't honk. They don't swear. You don't see them shaking their fists at you?

JK: We're really friendly out here in Alberta.

HM: I remember from my time there, for the most part.

JK: That's right.

HM: But you put anybody behind the wheel anywhere in this country at a bad traffic and I think it tries us?

JK: Yeah, it absolutely does. And you know actually this was just recently as part of the congestion study that we did and 6.5 million hours of additional congestion time are spent in Edmonton alone at all of the different points of congestion throughout our city. So we certainly do spend a lot of additional time sitting in the vehicle because of congestion, so maybe if we are aware of some of these tactics that we can use that hopefully reduce some of that time that will be a benefit for everybody.

HM: Well, some people will be listening to this program as they are driving somewhere this evening. Maybe they'll pay attention and give it a shot.

JK: Absolutely. That would be great.

HM: Mr. Kasbrick, Thanks for talking to us.

JK: Thanks so much, Helen. Appreciate it.

HM: Bye.

JK: Bye bye.

ATW: Jeff Kasbrick is a vice president at the Alberta Motor Association, a partner of the CAA. We reached him in Edmonton. You can read more about the “Zipper Merge” and tell us what you think of it on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sticks/ Cultural]

Light pillars

ATW: The pictures are incredible. And if it wasn't for a crying kid, Timothy Joseph Elzinga would never have taken them. The man from North Bay, Ontario recently saw a display of colors in the night sky. They're called “Light Pillars” and Mr. Elzinga’s pictures of the phenomena are being shared all over social media. Here's what he told CBC Sudbury about what he saw that night.

SOUNDCLIP

TIMOTHY JOSEPH ELZINGA: I got a two year old and he likes to wake me up frequently through the night just for a little reassurance and he went right back to bed. And you know how do, I go to the bathroom and out my window. I live just at the bottom of Thibeault Hill here. I had this kind of perfect view toward Sudbury kind of towards the hospital. And because of like the way the mountain is all forestry all to the left of that was just lit up. And I immediately yelled at my wife you got to come check this out I thought it was the northern lights. But you know she was kind of like OK, that's pretty cool. And she goes back to bed but I had to investigate further I had opened the window and let the cold air and it was really cold that night.

JASON TURNBULL: Now what ado these lights look like. I guess maybe even in comparison to the Northern Lights?

THE: Well, I've only ever seen kind of you know the Northern Lights be just a solid color in the sky. I've never really been fortunate to see a good display. So this looks more like beams of light are being kind of shot out of the atmosphere down towards the ground and all different colors. They were kind of shimmering and the colors were changing which was kind of interesting.

JT: Do you know what causes this this phenomenon?

THE: Yeah, it was so cold that night it was around minus 18. I guess if conditions are right and it freezes the moisture in the air at such a molecular level it's so small that it creates these perfect kind of vessels for prisms of light to shoot out from the lights on the ground. So that's why there are all different colors. It's you know it's different street signs and traffic lights turning from green to yellow to red and the rotation of the lights the street lights and stuff like that because they are they're on a timing says you've got to save energy. So I assume that's why it kind of flickers between the different lights and it almost looks like those lights are being shot up at the sky. But it's just the way that the phenomena works. It actually projects light straight up into the sky even if the light is just localized on the ground.

ATW: That was Timothy Joseph Elzinga speaking yesterday with Jason Turnbull, the host of CBC's Up North.

[Music: Drums]

747 simulator pilot

Guest Marco Governali

When Marco Governali wants to take a trip around the world, all he has to do is take the stairs down to his basement. That's where he's built a life-size Boeing 747 cockpit. It's equipped with a flight simulator and it took years to make. We reached Marco Governali in Calgary.

HM: Mr. Governali, the photographs of your simulator are pretty impressive. For those who haven't seen them yet. Can you describe for us what it looks like?

MARCO GOVERNALI: Amazing. It is pretty much the same as say the real airplane — the 747 cockpit.

HM: And it's the actual size?

MG: The actual size, yes.

HM: And describe some of the equipment in it. I mean what can you see when you're sitting in it for example?

MG: Everything you will see in a real 747. A lot of the components are actually from the real 747 we dismantle the air planes once they reach their life cycle. They recycle the parts and some of them are recycled for reuse and some of them are sold to hobbyists such as myself. And the arrangement is pretty well exactly the same as the real thing.

HM: And is there a screen that displays sort of what the horizon would look like?

MG: Of course, there is a 180 degrees curved projection screen in front of it. It's about five feet in front of the cabin. And then there is a projector on top of the cabin which projects on the screen itself to give you an outside feeling — an outside view. You can fly any airport on the planet. Some 850,000 airports are in it.

HM How do you get that? How do you how do you find that?

MG: You start with a basic simulator — Microsoft Flight Simulator — some $50. Then you add realistic water realistic mountains realistic ground mesh meaning so you can see the altitude with the mounts and everything. Then you buy realistic trees and you buy a realistic sound and then you buy each major airport individually. Like one airport costs as much or more than the similar itself.

HM: It sounds like a lot of buying. I hate to even ask, but are you willing to tell us how much is spent?

MG: I know I knew the question was coming. Put it this way, it is not all the ones, of course. It's over five years I got about $25,000 in it.

HM: How many kilometers would you fly in a week?

MG: Oh that's… It’s not a car. No. This is the same as we would in a real airplane. I mean you can go for example Montreal to Rome. Montreal to Dubai. Montreal to Frankfurt, London or Calgary. Phoenix, Arizona I can go whatever I want.

HM: What does your family think of you having this simulator in the basement?

MG: [Sound: Laughing] well, not much really it's just a hobby you know. I mean there is no nothing really. To be honest with you we don't see it as anything special. I know it might sound special from the outside, but to me it is a toy I mean I’m also a musician and a writer, so it's one of my hobbies. What really fascinates me about the airplane is not much the pilot's life. I wouldn't want to be a pilot to be honest with you.

HM: I was going to ask if you’ve ever been tempted to do actual flying lessons?

MG: Absolutely. That's not the idea you know. Of course, I admire them — a lot of respect — but I wouldn't want to be a pilot. I could have been a pilot if I wanted to years ago. I just fascinated with the airplane itself. The machine, the details I mean if you saw how many pictures and videos and blueprints I had to study to build this thing. It is out of this world.

HM: You ever read the book “Flight into Danger”?

MG: No.

HM: It's really old. But I think the pilot gets sick and they have to ask if anyone knows how to fly the plane. If that were to happen would you feel comfortable getting in the pilot's seat?

MG: Do you know how many times the question been asked to me? Hundreds of times! OK, so there's two parts to this question. I guess the first part would be do I know how to fly a 747. OK. All things being equal. I have never flown a 747, but everything is there in my simulator and I probably could. However, I'm not interested in doing that and I've never done it and never will. So to answer your question, especially a 747 is always at least of course two pilots for sure. Captain and copilot there is always a flight engineer. And in most cases a third pilot. And believe it or not even the flight attendants and everybody else on board as part of the company — the airline company — even though basic, they still have some sort of training you know to deal with situations such as this.

HM: OK, so let me just say I know it's never going to happen, but if it were could you handle it?

MG: are you asking if I could handle it or if I wold?

HM: Both.

MG: OK if so if you go by process of elimination so the pilot God forbid passes out, the copilot passes out and all the flight attendants pass out which is never going to happen. If I have to choose between me and 300 passengers they don't know the difference between the throttle and the fuel switch, of course I would say hold on a second, I will take care of this. But that's never going to happen.

HM: That's OK.

MG: There’s always people ahead of me that know way more than I can. Or that I do before it gets to me. So I would just stay back and just hope they know what they're doing and say a prayer. But that's never going to happen, of course, so it's out of the question.

HM: Well, Mr. Governali, it sounds like you have an awful lot of fun with this thing and you've put so many hours into it. Thanks for sharing the hobby with us.

MG: Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

HM: Nice to talk to you. Bye.

MG: Have a wonderful day. Bye bye.

HM: You too.

ATW: Marco Governali has built a life-sized Boeing 747 cockpit in his basement. We reached him in Calgary.

Part 2: Arthur Manuel obit, Downtown Abbey rats

Arthur Manuel obit

Guest: Doreen Manuel

ATW: From a young age, Arthur Manuel was taught to fight for his rights and his land. It came to him naturally. His father was George Manuel, who started a group which eventually became the Assembly of First Nations. Arthur Emanuel started his activism early as a young man, he was head of the Native Youth Association. He later became chief of the Neskonlith Indian Band in B.C. He would later fight for Indigenous rights at the UN, at the Hague and at the World Trade Organization his fight lasted right until the end of his life. Mr. Manuel died yesterday of congestive heart failure. He was 66. Doreen Manuel is his sister. We reached her in Kamloops.

HM: First of all Ms. Manuel, I'd just like to offer our condolences for the loss of your brother.

DOREEN MANUEL: Thank you.

HM: I understand that you and your family have given Arthur an emotional sendoff. Can you tell us how you spent your final moments with him?

DM: At 4:30 yesterday, I walked into his hospital room and his heart stopped beating. And they were in the process of trying to resuscitate him. His daughters were there praying. And I came in with my pipe and I held it to my chest and I sang the “Water Wave” song for him. That comes from our mother's culture the people in the Courtenay region and I just kept singing it and singing it and I closed my eyes and I asked him to come back to us and he did. They finally were able to get a very faint heartbeat. And his whole family came and the hospital was very accommodating to let us all in and all his children and his many of his grandchildren were there and his sisters and brothers and some of our spiritual leaders. And were sang and sang and sang trying to bring his heartbeat back. But it was getting just fainter and fainter. So at one point we realized we needed to help him. Help him to go if that's what he needed to do. And his children got to tell him their messages and we called our brother in Finland and we put the phone on speaker phone and put it near his ear and it was a very loving family spiritual way to honor our brother in that way and to give them that opportunity to go into the other world in a very powerful dignified way.

HM: There's so many tributes to him today on social media that I'm seeing. He was he was so active and in so many causes. And in fact, was just in North Dakota for the Standing Rock protests. What kept him such an activist?

DM: Well, from a young age each of the George and Marcellin Manuel children where we were all raised to live by a single driving force and that is to work actively to improve the conditions of our people for the generations to come. You know it means protecting the environment, it means standing up and fighting to keep our aboriginal rights and our title and rights. And when you're raised like that you just are always thinking about what else can I do? And Arthur was a great leader out in the community out in the world and within this family and a prime example of his leadership within his family is that his daughter continues his work. Arthur was actually at Standing Rock twice and she was there for months.

HM: And as a matter of fact, as I understand it he drove her home through quite a treacherous snowstorm. Can you tell us that story because I gather it was something?

DM: Well, you know he does get to take vacations once in a while and he went to Mexico. But when he goes on trips like that it's not just to do the tourist thing. He doesn't do the tourist thing. He went out into the small communities. But on his way home he had a connector flight into Denver. And his daughter was on her way home from Standing Rock with her four children and they had driven through treacherous snow conditions and they were behind a snowstorm in Missoula, Montana. They were stuck there. So Arthur flew from Denver, Colorado over to Missoula and he drove them home through all of that snow condition.

HM: And that was just weeks ago?

DM: That was yes.

HM: Some people may not be familiar with your brother's work outside of British Columbia in particular. Can you just remind Canadians of some of the causes that he took up that were so important to him?

DM: One of the things that he did was Canada has a has a really great credit rating and it's due to the billions of dollars that they extract out of the Indigenous title lands and they don't deserve that great credit rating because they owe, especially in British Columbia, they owe an enormous debt of back pay on treaty. So he was taking the battle to Standard and Poor's to educate them about this debt that Canada is trying to hide. And so that was very intellectual, sophisticated way of making Canada more accountable. Arthur traveled a lot to the U.N. and educated people and helped people become more empowered and helped them understand their rights.

HM: His latest education effort involved Canada's 150th birthday. He'd written us this column recently in a First Nations newsletter which basically urged Indigenous people not to not to celebrate saying there really was nothing to celebrate. What was the point he wanted to make?

DM: For our people, we certainly don't have anything to celebrate. We were colonized. You know we once had a huge population and now or you know something like 2 per cent of the Canadian population. We’re in our decolonization process. We need to find our voice. We need to be empowered. And it certainly isn't in celebrating Canada's colonization of us. It is in rising up within our own voice and fighting back.

HM: given his efforts to make that happen. What did he make of the reconciliation process that we hear so much about?

DM: You know I’ve recorded him a number of times. I'm a filmmaker and I videotaped him speaking a lot. The reconciliation process can't… it isn’t a true process because the government you know needs to make amends for what they've done to us and they're nowhere near that. You see this new government making all kinds of promises during the election process and what they do right away as they start opening up our resources to mining companies and corporations and pipelines. That's not reconciliation, that’s destruction of our lands and the water that you know our people depend on and the fish that our people depend on. They're not listening to us.

HM: Now that you're saying goodbye to Arthur, I'm just wondering what you would like his legacy to be?

DM: Continuing the battle to protect the title and rights and the environment for the generations to come. That was his father's legacy. He carried that and we all carry that — the Manuel family — of children of George and Marcelline Manuel. The children of well George Manuel, we all fight for that. Arthur fought for that.

HM: Ms. Manuel, thank you for speaking with us.

DM: Thank you very much.

HM: All right. Good bye.

DM: Bye bye.

ATW: Doreen Manuel is the sister of Arthur Manuel the former B.C. chief died yesterday at the age of 66. In 2010, Arthur Manuel spoke to the World Peace Forum about the history and progress of Indigenous rights in Canada. Here is part of that speech.

SOUNDCLIP

ARTHUR MANUEL: First of all, I guess I'd like to say in 1950 Indigenous people were not allowed to vote federally. I would be put in prison for making a speech like I'm giving here today because according to the Indian Act it was against the law for Indigenous people to talk about you know Indigenous rights. and it was against the law for a lawyer to work for an Indigenous person. You know that's how come we have land claims issues here today. We’re dealing with that because there were no laws that protected Indigenous people and Indigenous people really suffered. So the land was a very important aspect of their livelihood — still is. But in those days it was even more because we were moved on before 1950 from the wealth of our traditional territory to live on an Indian reserve. My reserve was 7,000 acres and people have to survive according to the government — the federal government — because we are under federal responsibility. But this struggle from the 1950’s from that period. You can see it's still happening here today. Just the other day the Canadian government for the first time recognized the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous people which is the first time in history, globally and Canada position particular where the government has recognized Indigenous rights as human rights. It’s the first time that’s been done.

ATW: From 2010, that was part of a speech by former B.C. chief Arthur Manuel, who died yesterday at the age of 66.

[Music: North East South West/ Indie rock]

Downtown Abbey rats

Guest: William Boyd-Wilson

ATW: You've heard about the wildly popular British TV drama series “Downton Abbey”. Well, this story is about a much smaller scale version called “Downton Alley”. It involves rats. That's right. The new YouTube series re-enacts the first season of the Crawley family's aristocratic trials and troubles using costumed, taxidermied rats. William Boyd-Wilson otherwise known as Cadillac Bill is the filmmaker behind “Dowton Alley”. We reached him in Hamilton, Ontario.

HM: William Boyd-Wilson, why rats?

WILLIAM BOYD-WILSON: Well, it's a very long story. I've got a little TV show in Hamilton called “Cadillac Bill Show” and I was interviewing this local taxidermist called Ankixa Risk a couple of years ago. And she had all of these rats who were dressed up in Victorian outfits and I just thought these were the funniest things I'd ever seen and I figured I must make some kind of movie about them.

HM: [Sound: Laughing] I can imagine. And “Downton Abbey” are you a big fan of that series?

WBW: No, not particularly. It's a fine show, but I'm not really into dramas. So I've never watched “Downton Abbey” in my life. I just kept thinking I’m going to make a classic movie about these rats. And then it occurred to me because everyone's going on about “Downton Abbey” that I’ll just spoof “Downton Abbey”. So that's really how that happened.

HM: How do you spoof a show you've never seen?

WBW: Well, I just downloaded the entire season one script of “Downton Abbey” — every episode — and I just edit it down, edited it down, changed it to be about rats and I shot it. I filmed it all based on my script that was “Downton Abbey” stories, built the set,s had the rats and the costumes and everything and that's how I went about making it. Never watching any of the “Downton Abbey”.

HM: Just how much of the dialogue did you have to change to make it be about rats?

WBW: Not a lot. No not a lot. Any “Downton Abbey” fan who watches my “Downton Alley” will know exactly what's going on and probably knows what's going to happen next because it's the same stories, same characters. But yes certainly it's been altered to be about rats because my rats instead of living in Highcliffe Castle, they live in a toilet paper box. And instead of talking about money and inheritance they talk about inheriting the wood chips or the cheese and stuff like that.

HM: OK, so have you actually seen “Downton Abbey” now?

WBW: Yes. Now after I'd made all the “Downton Alley’s” I watched a couple of the episodes of “Downton Abbey” that I'd spoofed. And I felt that my actors were much better. They had more motion in them because the “Downton Abbey” actors were stiff.

HM: Oh come on. Hugh Bonneville, he's not stiff!

WBW: I just thought their all a bit dull.

HM: Really?

WBW: My rats and the people who did the voices put more emotion into that.

HM: Oh, I like the kitchen staff the best.

WBW: In “Downton Abbey”?

HM: Well, I'm sure I'd like yours too.

WBW: You'd love mine. My kitchen staff were just as terrific.

HM: OK.

WBW: And also I've changed all the names too — well most of the names — like Mrs. Patmore is now Mrs. Ratmore.

HM: Good.

WBW: Mrs. Hughes is now Mrs. Huge and she is a huge, white rat. And there’s Molesley, that's the same. Molesley is actually a mole.

HM: That worked well.

WBW: Lady Mary is now Lady Hairy. Lady Edith is Lady Eat It.

HM: Oh, I like Eat it.

WBW: There you go with some of the names.

HM: Was it difficult to direct these dead rats?

WBW: No, it was very easy. It couldn't have been easier. There's one live animal in it, a guinea pig. But I've got to say that no dead rats were harmed in the making of “Downtown Alley”.

HM: What about the live guinea pig? I just wonder was it traumatised by working with taxidermied distant relatives?

WBW: No, not at all. My other animals don't seem to — because I got cats — and they don't seem to acknowledge that these were once live animals. So the guinea pig wasn't traumatized at all. I was slightly worried at first, but she seemed to be perfectly happy and had no problem being around stuff rats.

HM: Now your “Dowton Alley” is about to get a premier at an event in Hamilton. What's going on at this thing?

WBW: This is going to probably be the most unusual event ever in the history of bars and we're showing the episodes of “Downton Alley” plus the people who did the voices, a lot of them are local musicians, so they are going to be performing. They're going to be playing as well. Ginger St. James, Lori Yates, Tim Gibbons and members of my band The Creeping Bent Orchestra which is the band on my TV show. They're all going to be there and performing.

HM: What about the stuffed, taxidermied stars of “Downton Alley”, will they be there?

WBW: Well, this is what's going to be the most exciting thing about the night is not the films or the music is going to be that the actual stuffed rats are going to be there tomorrow night. They are going to be there so everyone can actually see the actual actors and actresses.

HM: What about the live guinea pig? What's her name?

WBW: Her name is Millie.

HM: Will Millie be there?

WBW: Millie won't be there. No I don't want to traumatize poor Millie too much.

HM: I suppose she's been through enough already?

WBW: She’s been through plenty.

HM: All right. It sounds like a lot of fun I have to admit.

WBW: I wish everyone could come out, hop on a plane and fly out to Hamilton. It is going to be the greatest night that you'll ever witness.

Mr. Boyd-Wilson, good luck with that and thank you very much.

WBW: Thank you, Helen.

HM: Okay bye bye.

WBW: Bye bye.

ATW: William Boyd-Wilson A.K.A Cadilac Bill, is a TV host and the filmmaker behind “Dowton Alley” starring costumed, taxidermied rats. We reached him in Hamilton, Ontario.

[Music: Electronica]

Kiss a Ginger Day

ATW: We're going to be a bit ginger about this next item. Not so much because it's sensitive, but because it's Kiss a Ginger Day. January 12th is marked in the UK as a lighthearted way to counter discrimination against redheads, especially red headed kids. The campaign has been going on for years. Clearly though not everyone's heard. Here's what happened in Westminster today when a strawberry-blonde Labor MP Chris Bryant rose to speak in the House of Commons.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS BRYANT: Mr. Speaker, may I first of all wish you I happy Kiss a Ginger Day.

[Sound: Laughter]

CB: The Member for North Antrim quite rightly asked the question so you can look it up.

JOHN BERCOW: This Kiss a Ginger activity is probably perfectly lawful, but I've got no plans to partake of it myself.

[Sound: Heavier laughter]

JB: Strikes me as any rum business and as colleagues can probably tell I've not the slightest idea about what the honorable gentleman was placing, so the matter had to be Googled for me.

ATW: That was John Bercow, the UK Speaker of the House of Commons responding to Labor MP Chris Bryant wishing him happy Kiss a Ginger Day.

Part 3: Tony Rosato obit, sandpiper mating

Trudeau Phoenix

ATW: At first, it seemed like an election campaign style road trip. The Prime Minister took off from Ottawa today and headed west stopping to take photos with residents, shake some hands and even request a Tragically Hip song on a local radio station. Justin Trudeau is already a year into his mandate's, but today marked day one of his cross-country tour to connect with Canadians and smooth over some bumps. Recently the PM has faced questions over cash-for-access political fundraising events and that vacation he and his family took to the private island owned by the Agha Khan. He took questions in Kingston, Ontario today. Some of them were about Phoenix. The beleaguered federal pay system that has seen the public sector employees work without receiving a pay check for months. Here's some of what he had to say today.

SOUNDCLIP

SPEAKER: Thank you Mr. Prime Minister. I am a federal correctional officer and I'm very proud of working in the public service. But with all due respect, the Phoenix debacle has gone on too long. We're being told that it could take up to three years to fix this problem. And no offense, that's not acceptable. If a private corporation was doing this on the scale that this is happening the government would have taken action by now. And I'm asking you here today is it possible for you now for you to say. Can we just put Phoenix aside? Put back the old system for now until we can get this working. Because there's tens of thousands of people owed tens of thousands of dollars. Their families are losing their homes over this.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Listen. Thank you very much for that question and I know. Let me say I entirely agree with you it is absolutely unacceptable that this has happened. Anyone, but particularly public servants who are not getting paid what they are owed in a responsible and rapid way is unacceptable and it is not the way we want to function as a government. The question you had: can we just go back to the old system? Is the question that I actually had early on. The problem is there was no old system. There was nothing but a very ad-hoc way of proceeding on things scattered around through the massive bureaucracies of the federal government and the Phoenix system was brought forward as a way of actually responding in a better way to something that was extremely uneven across the country. I'll admit it. This government in everything we were doing in the first months didn't pay enough attention to the challenges and to the warning signs that were coming on the transition that we were overseeing. We are working extremely hard to try and fix this. We're down to thousand cases. There continue to be people who are suffering and we are highlighting how important it is to do it and we're going to continue to work very hard on it and we will make sure that we settle this challenge.

SPEAKER TWO: Sir, I work for the Department of National Defense, so again another public servant. So guess what I'm going to question on? Phoenix again. With all due respect that 8,000 number that you said that we're down to is a lie by mis direction that 8,000 is from the cases prior to July 1^st. Problems didn't stop after July 1st. They've been steamrolling along. We have a lot more unofficially we've been told over 200,000 individual cases with minor and major problems. One the government needs to start releasing some correct, truthful numbers. So the Canadian public can know what the colossal fiasco the Phoenix really is. And to you've got to admit that Phoenix is not the only problem. Phoenix is a software and it's only half the problem. The policies of the pay centre are also causing a large part of the problem that needs to be fixed. And that's not going to be fixed with a little Band-Aids that have been put on so far. It's got a much more greater overhaul is needed. If people owe money and it needs to be clawed back the pay centre has to contact that person within 10 days to arrange a payback schedule and then it's only to be a certain percentage. They're not doing that. They're clawing back whole paychecks. Surprise no paycheck for Christmas. We had a gentleman in our office right before Christmas. The government actually owes him two weeks. They decided to stop paying him. They just took his paycheck away because they said he owed them money when in actuality they owe him money. You're breaking the law. We need people to start. Really realizing what the majority of this problem is. Some people should be in jail for this.

JT: Listen as I said, this is an extremely serious situation that we understand is absolutely unacceptable and we are doing everything we can to try and fix it. And I will take your concerns back to the minister and we will make sure that we're addressing it even better than where we're working hard to address it now.

ATW: That was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau answering questions from residents in Kingston about problems related to the Phoenix federal pay system.

[Music: Kong/ Electronic]

Tony Rosato obit

Guest: Adrian Truss

ATW: He was supposed to be the next John Belushi, but mental illness led him to a jail cell. And this week Italian-Canadian actor Tony Rosato died apparently of a heart attack according to his agent. He was 62. He was a cast member with both Saturday Night Live in Canada's SCTV. His best known characters tended to play on his own Italian heritage. Here's a clip from his SCTV days in the early 1980’s.

SOUNDCLIP

TONY ROSATO: The topic of today's program is communicating in Italian. We will discuss the fantastic vocabulary range of the Italian hands. I'm going to show some things that you will see all the time sometimes in and Italian conversation. The first one is achieved by taking the right hand palm up and cupping the fingers like this. This could mean several things. For example, hey what are you do with my wife? Or I think you need some more garlic. Or are you crazy or something? If this were a regular part of a conversation one could reply by shrugging of the shoulders and raising their hands up like this which could mean. I didn’t know this was your wife.

ATW: That's a clip from SCTV with actor Tony Rosato from the 1980’s. In 2005, Mr. Rosato’s bizarre behavior led to a harassment charge. That was the start of a troubling time during which his friends tried in vain to get him the help he needed. Adrian Truss is a fellow actor and a friend of the late Tony Rosato. We reached him in Ottawa.

HM: Mr. Truss, first of all, my condolences on the loss of your friend.

ADRIAN TRUSS: Yeah, it's sad and it's sort of the sad end to somebody who had seen some sad times.

HM: How did you first meet Tony Rosato?

AT: I can't say exactly when, but we were both at Second City in Toronto and it was probably through some social occasion there, perhaps a reunion or something of that nature.

HM: What kind of person was he in those days?

AT: Well, he's a very honest — was a very honest person. He was a very spiritual guy you could take that into sort of a New Age connotation. He was very into shamanistic ritual and crystals and that sort of thing. So the basis of his personality was multifaceted.

HM: He was on SCTV as well as Saturday Night Live, a rare actor who was in both casts. What made him such a great performer?

AT: Well again, I think it speaks to his general concern for the human condition. It made him able to create characters that were based in reality and not simply constructs. So all of his characters even the you know kind of wacky ones where we're still very human.

HM: When did you start to notice that something seemed off about him that he might be struggling?

AT: One night he was calling from a diner — an all-night diner — and he couldn't go home he said at the time because John Candy was there in his apartment and wouldn't leave. Candy had unfortunately passed by this time. But then it happened one day actually that the group of us were at a restaurant and he actually started talking to somebody who wasn't there. I mean at first you know we thought he was having us on, but then realized that no, he was genuinely having this conversation. And from that point on we started I guess looking more for it and saw it more and more as the disease that he had progressed.

HM: Now can you can you explain this disease he was eventually diagnosed with?

AT: Capgras, yeah, so I believe it's a form of schizophrenia. And basically it lends you to believe that people close to you — people around you — have been substituted for by well I don't know anything — aliens. So he started to believe that and eventually, of course, it led to the problem with his wife and child, who he believed had been kidnapped and substituted for.

HM: He was arrested in 2005 and ended up spending the next couple of years mostly in jail rather than a mental health facility. What happened?

AT: His wife, I guess fearing that his mental instability might lead to you know big problems. Went to her hometown of Kingston, Tony eventually followed them down and eventually complained to the police. They advised him to go back Toronto and they would look into it, which they never did.

HM: So he went back down the second time he went down and complained to them about you know about the possibility them being missing. They arrested him for mischief, basically for harassing the police. He was released on that. And then but then eventually went down again and was eventually charged with harassing his wife.

HM: You and a lot of his other friends as I understand it tried to help him through this time. What kind of roadblocks did you meet?

AT: It was a horrible sort of Kafka-esqe situation in which he ended up in the Quinte West Detention Centre awaiting trial on the charge of harassment of his wife. They sent him from there at once. I guess they realized fairly early on that he had some issues. So they sent him from a mental health assessment. They looked at him and eventually declared him safe for trial, so he went back to the prison. Got into court, thought that his lawyer had been substituted for because of his condition, fired him on the spot, was remanded, and went back to prison. So it was like this revolving door of a three way thing between the court, the prison and the mental health facility that he just bounced around basically for four years.

HM: Did you talk to him when he was incarcerated?

AT: Yeah, it was pretty heart wrenching because he couldn't understand it. He didn't understand why this was happening. Because at the times when he was lucid he didn't remember and the times when he wasn't lucid, of course, he was caught up in that.

HM: Did he ever get the treatment he needed during that time?

AT: Eventually they forced medication on him. Then from that point on, he was in control enough that the regular legal system came into gear and he was eventually released.

HM: How was he doing more recently?

AT: Immediately afterwards he was it was difficult to see him because the medication was so intense and he was very frail both physically and mentally. And I didn't see him until maybe about a year and a half ago when the comedy troupe that I'm involved with “Illustrated Men” did a show and we invited him to come and perform which he did. And he was and he was great. He was very funny and seemingly the old Tony.

HM: So, today how are you thinking of him? What memory do you do choose to have with him right now?

AT: The thing about Tony was that every time he saw you or every time you were with him and then you were about to leave him, he would tell you how much he loved you. He did that without fail to pretty much anybody that was connected to him. So that was pretty much him he was full of love.

HM: Gosh Mr. Truss, thank you for sharing your memories. I really appreciate it.

AT: You're very very welcome.

HM: OK, goodbye.

ATW: Adrian Trust is a fellow actor and friend of Tony Rosato who died this week at 62. Mr. Truss was an Ottawa.

[Music: Ambient]

Manitoba pig rescued

ATW: Now for something you don't see every day on your morning commute. Brenda Marshall-Wilson was driving to her office in Birtle, Manitoba on a wintry Monday morning. Then she spotted something on the road. She described what happened to CBC Manitoba's Marcy Markusa on Information Radio earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

BRENDA MARSHALL-WILSON: Well, I headed for work and I eased up to the stop sign at the highway junction of eighty-three and forty-two. Had to gear down my car because it's really slippery as the ground is white and there's no vehicle there, but for some reason I just pulled like with my nose barely up to the stop sign and I looked left down the hill into town and I looked right up the hill and I didn't see a thing. So I went to turn the corner and all of a sudden there was little tiny baby pig right in front of my car.

MARCY MARKUSA: What did you do next?

BMW: I really didn't believe what I was seeing and then I realized it was a frozen little piglet, standing there dancing, sort of looking towards me and coming toward the car and I thought oh, it's either going to get driven over or it's going to freeze to death. It looked a little damaged. So I just without hesitation knew I could just catch it and bring it to my office and put it in a box and find a new home for it.

MM: How did you do that? I understand OK I understand you grunted at it?

BMW: Yeah, I actually looked into the windows to see that there was no vehicle behind me piled up and any coming and I thought OK, I'm going to do this. But I knew that I scared the little thing I would just stress out more and maybe it would get more injured. So I came around the corner of the hood of the car with bending over and crouching right down and then I started to snort at it like a mother pig. And at first it turned away from me, but as soon as I heard that it was very curious and turned and started to oof back at me and it was oof and then I was grunting and each time I did that and then it wouldn't stay I would move a little closer until I got about three feet away I guess. And then I thought OK, this has gone on long enough I'm going to catch you sucker. And I reached down and kind of tried to get away, but I only had to take a couple of steps and grabbed it on both sides of its sides and it leave a great big squeal. And I put it under my arm just like a football and I jumped back into the car, I left the door open. And I held it there and it was about as big as a fairly large handbag. So one arm could hold it, it didn't resist too much and then I drove into town it's only about half a mile down into the valley.

MM: Why did you know to grunt at it in the first place? I don't think I would have even… you've worked with pigs right? You’re a bit of a pig whisperer.

BMW: Funny thing, I've always been fascinated with animal behavior and so I've watched and I've worked with a lot of different species. And pigs were one of them. In 1988 I worked in a pig farm at St. Stosh and I learned a lot. Then my very first job there was actually going into the faring barn and picking up little piglets that had just recently been born.

MM: And working with them. That image of you on the highway grunting is one I won't forget.

BMW: I won’t either.

MM: Take care.

BMW: OK, Bye bye.

ATW: That's Brenda Marshall-Wilson of Birtle, Manitoba, which is about 300 kilometers west of Winnipeg. She was speaking with the Marcy Markusa, who's the host of CBC's Information Radio this morning. The little piglet is one of five found this week in the same area. No one is certain where they came from, but a local farmer has now offered to take all five to his farm.

[Music: Satellite/ Jazz]

Sandpiper mating

Guest: Bart Kempenaers

Promiscuous and sex-crazed. That's how a small bird called a pectoral sandpiper is being described. A new study about the male birds breeding habits has just been released. Bart Kempenaers is the lead author. We reached him in Seewiesen, Germany which is south of Munich.

HM: Professor Kempenaers, what makes these birds so sex-crazed?

BART KEMPENAERS: Well, so the males of the species they don't provide parental care like many other shorebirds do. They just fight with other males and display to try to attract females to ultimately mate with them. And to females are very reluctant to do so, they probably copulate only once or twice just before they lay their eggs. So the males are trying very hard to get copulation and females are really reluctant. So in the end a lot of males end up without any reproductive success locally. And what we found is that they then leave and fly to other Arctic breeding sites.

HM: Right. So the females aren't interested. They are compelled to try and mate and they're not getting anywhere?

BK: The males, yes, that's right.

HM: So what new information were you able to figure out about how these male birds actually behaved during mating season?

BK: So from a local study that we did in Northern Alaska we already knew that a lot of males that come there and are displaying and are territorial that they leave after a short time. And we didn't have a clue where they were going. So using these satellite transmitters we could figure out where they actually went. And this was really surprising because they flew up to 13,000 kilometers which is the distance from their wintering grounds to the breeding grounds all within four to six weeks within this Arctic breeding area either Canadian Arctic or Russian Arctic.

HM: How are they able to travel that far for so long? Don’t they need to rest?

BK: Yes, it's quite amazing how long they actually travel in a single trip, so that the average distance is only a couple of hundred kilometers. But some males went up to 2,500 kilometers and they fly about 50 to 70 kilometers an hour. So this means that they are almost two days in the air probably nonstop.

HM: And do they sleep at all?

BK: So while flying I think it's unlikely because it's flapping flight. When they are displaying when they're on the breeding ground. We did this study before that showed that they actually sleep very little. So they're active about 85 to 95 per cent of the total time. And we also looked in the brain how the sleep works and what they do is they have hundreds of very short sleep bouts with a average of 15 to 35 seconds and many throughout a day and then this adds up to a couple of hours of sleep.

HM: And this is for just this mating season?

BK: That's very likely. So it's, of course, 24 hour light during the breeding season in the Arctic. I doubt that they do this outside of the breeding season, but we don't know.

HM: How difficult is it. I mean how many of these birds succeed in finding a mate who then reproduces?

BK: So they're all trying to get them to get a mate or to copulate with a female but only about 20 per cent of the males locally reproduce, so sire any offspring. And so there's a very large skew in reproductive success. The top male that we ever had sired 22 offspring with six different females, but the majority of the males that come there actually sire no offspring at all locally.

HM: How were you able to track these birds?

BK: We used a lightweight satellite transmitters that are made by a company in the U.S. and they weigh 5 grams and we glue them on the back so that after a while they fall off. But they stayed on long enough for us to track where they were going.

HM: And how closely did you observe their behavior in terms of how they court?

BK: Well, so this is a very nice thing about working in the Arctic. All these birds were color banded and the birds are not shy at all. So you're just standing there among the birds. And we did this around the clock observations with a group of people three hours in a row and you just stand there and the birds walk around to you and you don't even need binoculars to see what they're doing.

HM: But are they flirting with the females?

BK: Yes. They have different types of display. So one is an aerial display where they fly over the female very low and they make a hooting kind of call. They have a throat sack which they blow up like a pigeon and then go over the female making this woot, woot, woot, type of call and then they have a ground display where they make very strange calls that also involves this throat sack. And then they walk behind a female and usually the female walks away from them or flies away.

HM: Is it fair to describe the males behavior as promiscuous?

BK: Yeah, you can say promiscuous. I mean this is just terminology. I mean they try to copulate with as many females as they can. I mean that's what they're selected for that’s increasing their reproductive success.

HM: Have you ever seen or heard of another bird that would travel so far and for so many consecutive hours to find a mate?

BK: No, this is the first time that this has been recorded as we suspect that other promiscuous species have similar behaviors such as puff-breasted sandpipers, but we don't know yet.

HM: So what's the next step for your research?

BK: We're going to look at a sex-role reversed species which means a species where it's the females that are aggressively competing for the males and the males are doing all the parental care. So they are sitting on the eggs and we're interested in finding out whether these females in this case do something similar.

HM: So if the consequences of successfully breeding means you're responsible for childcare it might change how you behave?

BK: Yes.

HM: Yeah.

BK: Indeed.

HM: Professor Kempenaers, thank you very much.

BK: Thank you.

HM: Bye bye.

BK: Bye bye.

ATW: Bart Kempenaers is the managing director of the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Seewiesen, Germany. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Cultural]

Blue wine

ATW: Wine can be red or white or pink, but it cannot be blue. Not in Spain. Not anymore. And if that doesn't trouble you, you don't work for Gik. That's the name of the Castillian start-up that made news last year when it released what it insists is the world's first true blue wine. The beverage is made from both blue and white grapes. But what's unique is an indigo stain that producers say they can get from the fruit skin. Now a quick review of sommeliers on YouTube suggest a beverage that meets the eye with mouthwash-like hue. And by all accounts it tests the palate with the similarly cleansing effect. But that hasn't stopped consumers from snapping up the novelty wine. Gik hass sold more than 100,000 bottles in its first year on the shelves. Now though, all that blue-hued success may go down the drain. The producers say the Rioja ha refuseniks and Tempranillo traditionalists have turned Spain's wine regulators against their innovation. From now on Gik will be gone from the wine shelves. They say a crackdown by regulators means the wine will be relegated to a quote, “bastard category named other alcoholic drinks”. And from now on Gik will be labeled not as blue wine but as quote, “99 per cent wine and 1 per cent grape must”.

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

Jan. 12, 2017 episode transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode