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The AIH Transcript for January 24, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Karen Gordon

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight...

CO: A foregone conclusion. He survived a kidnapping and multiple attempts on his life -- but today, Tony Magi, a Montreal developer with ties to the mob was shot and killed.

KG: Led astray. A young anti-government protester in Venezuela says the policies of President Nicolas Maduro have made life there intolerable -- and she has nothing more to lose by demanding he get lost.

CO: Black and white, and hatred all over. A free Toronto newspaper celebrated misogyny and denied the Holocaust -- today, a judge ruled its editor and publisher were guilty of the unrelenting promotion of hate.

KG: Staying power-house. Soul singer and transgender pioneer Jackie Shane vanished for decades after blowing Toronto audiences away -- and now a reissue of her work has earned her a Grammy nomination.

CO: Extremely loaded dice. In the UK a nerve-agent attack that killed one and hospitalized four others was traumatic -- but in Russia it's now the basis for a board game called "Our guys in Salisbury."

KG: And recall of nature. A popular book catalogued words from the natural world that were discarded from a dictionary in favour of words from the tech world -- and now those missing definitions are redefining a B.C. teacher's approach. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that knows sometimes we are our own words enemy.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: 'This is a historic day,' says woman who fought paper convicted of peddling hate

Montreal mafia hit

Guest: Antonio Nicaso

KG: There have been many assassination attempts on Tony Magi's life over the years. The Montreal construction magnate had been kidnapped, shot at, his wife was targeted too. But today an attempt on Mr. Magi's life succeeded. This morning Tony Magi was shot and killed near a construction site in Montreal's Notre-Dame-de-Grace district, known as NDG, a neighbourhood where he lived and worked. Mr. Magi had known ties to the Montreal mafia. He used to be business partners with Nick Rizzuto Junior, the son of the infamous Mafia boss Vito Rizzuto. Nick Rizzuto Junior was shot and killed in 2009. Antonio Nicaso is a former journalist who has written several books about the Montreal mafia. We reached Mr. Nicaso in Toronto.

CO: Antonio when you heard that Tony Magi had been shot and killed in Montreal today, what did you think?

ANTONIO NICASO: He has always been a very controversial character. He certainly had an adventurous life. He lived on edge. I was not surprised. His life was a life full of risk and dangers.

CO: And he had a number of hits or attempts on his life, didn't he? I'm just going to go through them: In 2005 he escaped an attempted kidnapping, in 2008 he came very close to dying when all these bullets were flying at him as he drove through Notre-Dame-de-Grace, it's the NDG area of Montreal -- he was badly wounded in that, in February 2011 his own wife was shot at. Lots of attempts on his life. Why do you think that he was such a target?

AN: Police search warrant filed at the Montreal courthouse stated that Tony Magi had close ties to the Montreal mafia -- a charge that he always denied. He was also known to be acquaintance with street gangs. But at the same time he was the owner of a construction company. He was a prominent figure in the Montreal real estate, and a business associate in land development to Nick Junior Rizzuto. I think everything started with an agreement that had gone bad, and many people suspected that at one point Nick Junior masterminded the killing of Tony Magi -- as you mentioned he survived that attempted murder, he spent six months in hospital in coma. Many people believe that the death of Tony Magi is a kind of final retaliation for the murder of Nick Junior.

CO: Okay you mentioned Nick Rizzuto Junior, and he's the son of the infamous Mafia boss Vito Rizzuto, and I believe Nick was shot and killed in 2009. But didn't Tony Magi -- didn't he have a business relationship with Nick Junior?

AN: Yes they had the business relation at one point because they were involved in several business -- he has been doing business with Nick Junior. They bought a piece of land together in Montreal west end. They planned to build a residential complex on that land. They were really good friends. You mention about when he escaped the kidnapping -- rather than file a police report, he called Nick Junior to tell him about the fact that he escaped this kidnapping in LaSalle, so they had a relationship. Then apparently an agreement had gone bad and so they started to have bad blood between them.

CO: You know what is interesting about Tony Magi's that he seemed to always come off looking kind of squeaky clean, didn't he. I mean he was a witness in the Charbonneau Commission into corruption in the construction industry. You'd think that with all the connections he had with everybody, with all the business, he was doing he might have been a bit more prominent in Charbonneau. Why is it do you think that he really doesn't have any charges against him?

AN: Sometimes it's very difficult to find evidence. I'd like to say that he lived on the edge of razor because of all of these connection to criminals. That's just a typical way of doing business in the mafia -- they identify people like Tony Magi and make investment, work together with real estate agents or other professional in the legitimate business because that's the way to cover your criminal activity -- in some way the idea to connect to the underworld and upper-world, they need faces, they need people, they need the potential partner, potential business.

CO: The area where he was gunned down -- Notre-Dame-de-Grace, or NDG as it's known. Tony Magi lived and he worked there in NDG. And one of his condo developments was even nicknamed Magi Ville. Can you just tell us a bit about where Tony Magi was killed?

AN: Tony Magi was killed in the area of Montreal. But I don't think there are areas that are safer than others -- area of interest, job site -- and that was the only place where they could eventually kill the Tony Magi because after he escaped the attempted murder, he practically traveled with a bodyguard in armored plated car, so he was very conscious. But in that type of business and that world, people he used to say that blood flows from generation to generation. I always said that mafia revenge doesn't have a statute of limitations.

CO: Now if this is resolving of this bad blood between the Rizzuto's and Mr. Magi who now is running the Montreal mafia? I mean the Rizzuto family -- there's not many of them left -- three generations are gone. What happens now?

AN: The death of Vito Rizzuto left a vacuum in the underworld. There is still a turmoil and an ongoing power struggle because it's very difficult to replace a boss who consider himself the CEO of the underworld -- capable to put together a whole criminal element, outlaw motorcycle gangs, street gangs, people who control the docks, people who provide and supply narcotics, and make them to work together in a kind of a consortium.

CO: Okay. And that's Vito Rizzuto who died of natural causes actually -- he was able to put that consortium of all those underworld chapters together and never to happen again I guess now.

AN: Yes. That's what people try to accomplish, but that's what they have a hard time to do it.

CO: We will leave it there and we'll leave it up to the police at this point. Antonio thank you for speaking with us and explaining all of this.

AN: My pleasure.

KG: Antonio Nicaso is a former journalist, and the author of several books about the Montreal mafia -- and the infamous mafia linked to Rizzuto family. We reached him in Toronto. For more on this story go to our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Senator Michael Bennet

KG: Nobody was happy in the U.S. Senate today. Senators were voting on two bills: one backed by Republicans, one backed by the Democrats -- in hopes of ending the government shutdown. Neither passed. On Day 34 of the shutdown, politicians in both parties are getting pretty frustrated with the lack of movement -- even normally mild mannered ones like Democratic Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado. And before the vote on the Senate floor today, he let those feelings be known. The first voice you're going to hear is Texas Senator Ted Cruz. And then you'll hear Senator Michael Bennet's response.

SOUNDCLIP

TED CRUZ: So the only thing that is necessary to pass a clean bill, paying the salaries of every man and woman in the Coast Guard, is for the Democratic senators to withdraw their objection, is that correct?

VOICE 1: That's correct.

TED CRUZ: Thank you.

MICHAEL BENNET: Madam President.

VOICE 2: Senator from Colorado.

MICHAEL BENNET: Madam President -- I seldom as you know rise on this floor to contradict somebody on the other side -- I've work very hard over the years to work in a bipartisan way with the presiding officer with my Republican colleagues. But these crocodile tears that Senator from Texas is crying for first responders are too hard for me to take -- they are too hard for me to take -- because when the Senator from Texas shut this government down in 2013, my state was flooded. It was under water! People were killed! People’s houses were destroyed! Small businesses were ruined forever! And because of the Senator from Texas this government was shutdown for politics. Then he surfed to a second place finish in the Iowa caucuses. But were of no help to the first responders, to the teachers, to the students whose schools were closed when the federal government was shut down because of the junior Senator from Texas. Now it's his business, not my business, why he supports a President who wants to erect a medieval barrier on the border of Texas -- who wants to use eminent domain to build that wall, who wants to declare an unconstitutional emergency to build that wall -- that's the business of the senator from Texas, I can assure you that in Colorado if a President said he was going to use eminent domain to erect a barrier across the State of Colorado, across the Rocky Mountains of Colorado -- he was going to steal the property of our farmers and ranchers to build his medieval wall --there wouldn't be an elected leader from our state that would support that idea. Which goes to my final point, how ludicrous it is that this government is shut down over a promise that the President of the United States couldn't keep! And that America is not interested in having him keep. This idea that he was going to build a medieval wall across the southern border of Texas -- take it from the farmers and ranchers that were there, and have the Mexicans pay for it, isn't true! That's why we're here.

KG: That was Democratic Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado. He was responding to the first person you heard, Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, earlier today.

[Music]

Ward News verdict

Guest: Lisa Kinsella

KG: Your Ward News is a free Toronto paper. It was delivered right to residents' doors, whether they wanted it or not. And there were so many reasons not to want it. This morning, James Sears and LeRoy St. Germaine -- the man behind Your Ward News -- were convicted of using that paper to promote hatred towards women and Jews. Their conviction followed a complaint filed by Toronto consultant Lisa Kinsella. We reached Ms. Kinsella in Toronto.

CO: Ms. Kinsella I know you have been fighting to have this publication shut down for quite some time now, for about three years. What does this conviction mean for you?

LISA KINSELLA: It's truly historic decision. As you know never before in Canadian history had there ever even been a charge laid under the Criminal Code for the promotion of hatred against women, so not only now has that charge happened -- there's been a conviction.

CO: And who was receiving this publication -- Your Ward News?

LK: The first time I became aware of it -- it was being delivered by Canada Post and it was focused on my neighbourhood in The Beaches of Toronto, and it kind of expanded from there. Now we've heard from people as far out as London, Ontario to Kingston, Ontario, and of course it's online, so it has basically international distribution.

CO: Can you, as best you can without having to promote or to spread any more of this language, can you tell us what the thrust of this publication was?

LK: Well there was so much. In terms of what was happening with respect to women, there was a lot of what I've called rape advocacy. And about three years ago I spoke to a couple of detectives -- I think it was the first time that someone had spoken to them about the misogyny contained within the pages -- everyone was very well aware of the anti-Semitism, and the homophobia, and the racism, but they really hadn't focused on the misogyny. And I spent probably about an hour with these officers just pointing out page-after-page of these vile statements. And again like you said I don't really want to repeat it, but it was beyond the pale. It wasn't simply you know negative expressions of women, it went into violent and like I said rape advocacy through the pages of the publication.

CO: At the same time there was also just extraordinarily awful things about Jews -- and just a whole litany of bloodthirsty Jewish conspiracy things that were in this publication, so in every respect vile. Why is it taken so long to be exposed as hate literature?

LK: Well I think part of the issue is that these charges aren't made lightly. So what we decided to do was to take all the steps we could as private citizens to get to the point where we are today. So the first thing that we did is we put together a group and we worked to have Canada Post no longer be allowed to distribute this publication -- and we worked with members of you know postal workers and we worked with people who were receiving it in our neighbourhood, our neighbors had been complaining to us, and we were working with the minister who is responsible and she had issued an interim order barring Canada Post from delivery. And of course James Sears and LeRoy St. Germaine appealed the decision, and the current minister issued finally a permanent prohibitory order just a couple of months ago. So you can see how the process moves slowly and in that time period as well they had published what my husband and I took to be a death threat against us within the pages of Your Ward News because I'd been speaking out about the misogyny. And the Crown took our case over so we spent months on that as well. We went to court actually in October and that was when I really had to spend a lot of time on the stand with defence counsel trying to explain -- and I'm not kidding Carol -- I had to explain for about 15 minutes that rape advocacy can never be satire. That was the whole basis for their arguments.

CO: And the judge in that case finding these men not guilty of uttering threats against you and your husband, he said that well that you and your husband are the opposite of dispassionate and unbiased and you perceive everything in the worst possible light and you contributed to the situation by your campaign against their publication.

LK: Yeah that's what he said. And how can we be dispassionate when the words in the publication were and I quote 'bludgeon the Kinsellas to death.' So yes we are passionate about this -- we are passionate to work against people who are publishing homophobic, racist, misogynist content. It is vile what they publish. So yes, we are passionate. I guess we're guilty on that count. But fortunately the judge today as he said before he ruled -- he read all of the publications -- and he said it was unrelenting hatred, that's what the judge had said in this case. And I'm so happy that he was able to see through their arguments because defense counsel during this trial was trying to argue that you know they weren't against all women, just feminists -- and they weren't against all Jews, just some Jews. And fortunately the Crown and the judge were just smarter than that.

CO: I have looked it up online and it's still full of all the hateful things you're describing. So what happens now? I mean can they continue to distribute this publication?

LK: From what I understand a sentencing is going to be on April 26th -- and the judge has many tools at his disposal, and I think one of the things that's being considered is that it not be available on the Internet. And you know if you're looking at it online, one of the things you will see is that you know there are a number of people that they target -- myself included. So our fight isn't over as far as I'm concerned. We'll wait to see what the sentencing is on April 26th. But if Your Ward News isn't ordered to go offline, we'll continue to do whatever we can with the means that we have at our disposal to ensure that this no longer exists.

CO: We will leave it there. Ms. Kinsella I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LK: Thank you for the time.

KG: Lisa Kinsella and her husband filed the initial complaint about the free Toronto newspaper, Your Ward News. She's in Toronto. And you can find more on this story: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

'Lost Words' class

Guest: Petra Knight

KG: "The Lost Words" was a book intended to give new life to words that were dropped from the Oxford Junior Dictionary -- and it looks like it's done its job. In November, the author of the book, Robert Macfarlane, told Carol about his concern that words from the natural world like 'otter' and 'fern' had been removed and replaced by words from the tech world like 'broadband' and 'voicemail.' Mr. Macfarlane turns that concern into an illustrated dictionary. It has inspired people all around the world to embrace these last words including Petra Knight. Ms. Knight is a Grade five teacher on Vancouver Island who turned the book into a project for her students. We reached Petra Knight near Qualicum Beach Elementary School.

CO: Petra what is it about this book, Lost Words, that touched you?

PETRA KNIGHT: I found that I was so shocked. I was heartbroken. And I grew up in England, I came to Canada in '95, in my late 20s -- and I think it really just tugged that my child had lost. Andq I just felt like something was being stolen from children -- you know words are being taken away.

CO: The words -- there's a number of them but some of them -- when we interviewed Robert Macfarlane just a few months ago and he described these words and read some of the poetry that's around them, words like: acorn, wren, bluebell, kingfisher, lark, otter, willow, raven -- all removed from the Junior Oxford Dictionary to make way for other words that were considered to be more current. So what effect did that have on your students when you told them about it?

PK: I was actually hesitant. I was worried, would they feel the same as I did? And they were absolutely in shock -- screaming out, No! No! As they turned each page of the book. They just couldn't believe it. They were flabbergasted. It was, 'But Raven is our school mascot,' 'Ivy is the name with my little sister -- has she disappeared?' I mean they were just in absolute shock. And outdoors is a huge part of our week. We go out twice a week and we see almost everything in that book. And you know they eat blackberries off the brambles. I mean it's just incredible.

CO: And so what did the kids decide they're going to do about this offence?

PK: So then they said, 'what can we do? What can we do?' And we had already done one persuasive letter, and so they wanted to do another one. And I said, why not write? And they were like, 'Yes! They have got to put them back in.' And so they talked about words of how they were feeling which were some pretty strong words. And then I asked them to really think about their outdoor experiences or their life at home or camping or whatever they've done -- and think of real personal stories that they can include in their letters hoping to have a strong impact with Oxford University Press.

CO: In their letters, and you have sent some of them, they write about -- one says that, 'furious, appalled, astonished, inexcusable,' they write. And they're also deeply offended that not only are these words like fern, otter, acorn, and raven -- which is your school mascot -- removed from the dictionary, they've been replaced -- of course that was why they were removed -- replaced with techy-words like cut and paste, and blog, and attachment, and bulletin. What did they make of that?

PK: They were surprised. They just said that's wrong. I mean it's interesting a lot of them you know do play games, but I loved it when one of the students said, 'how much will it cost to add an extra page to your dictionary?'

CO: And one of them says, 'please put the words back in the dictionary.'

PK: Yes yes. I mean my class actually said should we fundraise so that we can give the money to Oxford University Press -- that's how much they feel. They believe in a balance. They really do.

CO: Now speaking of balance you are out in the woods right now with your class -- your Grade five class, is that right?

PK: Yes I am.

CO: You're one of the very few teachers who in Canada right now [Laughs] could go outside in the woods for any length of time -- it's so cold.

PK: Yes. We go out twice a week -- whether it's raining or not, doesn't matter what the weather is. It did snow here a few weeks ago and I bought my kids out in the snow. We did a prediction of many bits of wildlife we were going to see and we actually did see some, so it was wonderful. We go out every week regardless of the weather.

CO: And what are the kids doing right now?

PK: They're playing a game of camouflage -- about 50 metres away from me because I thought it would be too noisy if I was speaking on the phone.

CO: [Laughs] Thank you. And of course being on Vancouver Island you can do things like that in January.

PK: Yes.

CO: Have you had any response from Oxford Dictionary?

PK: I don't know if they've just arrived -- I mailed them last Friday and they are so excited, very static that you have called and they feel like their voice counts and that's so important.

CO: Did they hear the interview on As It Happens with Robert Macfarlane?

PK: Yes yes we were listening to that as well.

CO: When we talked to Robert Macfarlane about this -- he said he's so surprised at the reaction to the book. And he said these grassroots campaigns have come up all through the UK to put copies in every school they could, and it's been turned into dance, into theater, and to school projects. He's described how this has touched so many teachers and kids everywhere who have come in contact with the book. Do you think that will now start in Canada?

PK: I'm hoping. I really hope so. This is so important. I mean when I think of our current world and suddenly people are trying to preserve lost languages -- and here's a dictionary trying to take these words away -- we've got to stand up for nature. We live in a natural world. And I really hope Canada and all the teachers across Canada take it on because it's so important.

CO: Well Petra I'll let you get back to your kids. I wish I could join you.

PK: Yes I wish you were here. I'd love to show you the forest. You're welcome anytime.

CO: Thank you. Take care. Bye bye.

PK: Thank you. Bye bye.

KG: Petra Knight is a teacher at the Qualicum Beach Elementary School on Vancouver Island. We reached her in the forest near the school earlier today. To see some photos and read some of the students letters head to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: The situation in Venezuela

Venezuela protester

KG: For years Venezuela has been in a state of tense uncertainty. Today, it is a state of tense uncertainty. In the midst of massive street protests yesterday, opposition leader Juan Guaido tried to seize the initiative and declare himself president. Today the leaders of Venezuela's armed forces closed ranks around President Nicolas Maduro which presents a major obstacle to the opposition's progress. Earlier today we reached a 22-year-old in Caracas who has been protesting against the government. We've agreed not to use her real name because she fears for her safety. She's asked us to call her by her nickname, Flacka.

CO: Flacka what is happening right now in Caracas?

FLACKA: Right now I think the people are stressed you know. You feel the stress on the streets. Also I think like an hour or something like that -- everything is going to burn again because the people here just do those things in the night you know -- that people go ou to the streets in the night and the people protest in the night.

CO: What was it like last night on the street then?

FLACKA: Well last night was really hard. I mean it was like a civil war you know. A lot of the parts were like the people shooting to the police -- the police groups -- there are people shooting to the other people. Everybody was shooting and opening the markets and taking their food -- it was really hard.

CO: We heard that there are possibly as many as at least 12 people who had been killed -- many injured. You are 22-years-old, what are you doing out there? Why are you on the street protesting?

FLACKA: Because I don't have anything to lose. I mean I can't get work. You know I can't get a job in my area of work because it's too difficult. My family is all out of the country. I have just two uncles here. I don't have anyone. And I'm not scared. You know I don't have anything to lose, it's just that simpe. The only thing that I can do is lose my life --and I can do it protesting or I can do it walking on the street, but people kill you because you are walking on the street with your cell phone in the hand.

CO: Can you just describe for us what it's been like for people trying to live in Venezuela in these past months -- I mean how difficult has it been for you?

FLACKA: Well it's really really difficult. I mean it is too hard to get the food and get the services, you know. I was like three months without water and that is really really hard -- it is horrible. In front of mine -- I have two girls looking for food from the trash. And I think that I fight to end that, you know.

CO: You say there's two girls who are looking through the trash for food that you're looking at right now.

FLACKA: Yeah exactly right now.

CO: When we saw yesterday this was extraordinary to see this man, Jaun Guaido. He was declaring himself president out on the streets in Caracas. And he has the support of many people. How did you feel when he saw that? When you watched Juan Guaido declare himself President, swear himself in, what what kind of message did that send to you?

FLACKA: I was waiting for that, you know because we know that he is a legal president. But I saw him like a wave, you know, like I root to go out of these things that are happened.

CO: Are you worried though? Because we've seen is that the defense minister says the army is still supporting Maduro. You saw on your television today, the military leaders in the regions they are all saying supporting Maduro. Does that worry you?

FLACKA: No no. I think that -- seriously I'm going to tell you something okay -- the army in Venezuela is not with Maduro. I mean I know a lot of people that works in the National Guard or in the Army or in the Air Command -- you know I mean these people is not really with him. Obviously the high groups of the army are with him because the high groups of the army they are doing narco traffic or selling things are or [inaudible] people, you know.

CO: What are you expecting to happen tonight? In a few hours it will be dark. What do you think will happen in the streets of Caracas tonight?

FLACKA: Well I think that the people is going to be on the streets again tonight. And I hope that these army groups that are on the streets everyday doing normal things that are in the [inaudible] -- I don't know what is word...

CO: In secret.

FLACKA: In the secret -- I hope the secret groups go out to the streets -- like last night in [inaudible] but in all the city -- I really hope that happens, something, because we need something here in Venezula. We really need it.

CO: Flacka we'll leave it there. Please be safe tonight.

FLACKA: Be careful -- I'm always safe [laughs]. I hope -- I try to be always safe.

CO: Alright take care of yourself. Bye bye.

FLACKA: Bye bye. Thank you.

KG: That was a 22-year-old in Caracas, Venezuela. We agreed not to use her real name because she fears for her safety. Tomorrow we'll hear a different perspective on the events in Venezuela from someone who believes the opposition is acting on pressures from outside the country and attempting to stage a coup.

[Music]

Salisbury attack game

Guest: Andrew Roth

KG: "Our Guys In Salisbury" is not a complicated board game, but it is controversial. The game is based on the nerve agent attack on the former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia. And it's being sold by a pair of Russian entrepreneurs. It features figures in hazmat suits and a spray bottle with a green skull and crossbones. Andrew Roth tracked down the game-makers. He's a reporter for The Guardian. And we reached him in Moscow.

CO: Andrew what are the rules of the game when you play Our Guys In Salisbury?

ANDREW ROTH: So the rules are pretty simple. You moved two pieces as a pair of course -- for the two GRU agents, Boshirov and Petrov (or Mishkin and Chepiga) and you move them step-by-step through various European cities just like the spies in real life until you get to Salisbury. And Salisbury is decorated with you know an image of the famous cathedral that's there with the very tall spire and also with two figures in hazmat suits -- from a photograph after Sergei Skripal was poisoned.

CO: And how do you win?

AR: You win by getting there first -- then by having you know the fewest number of what they call 'multipoints.' You know I'll be pretty honest the game didn't have a lot of rules to it -- and you know one thing they had tried to tell me was about geography, but if you land on a city like Amsterdam or Geneva there are no cards and nothing actually happens if you land on those cities. So you sense pretty quickly that the game is not really about the rules to it, but more just about the message it sends.

CO: Okay. And what is the message that it is sending?

AR: I think the message it sends is -- it's fairly sarcastic. It's designed to be a kind of thumbing their nose at the general consensus around the world that Russian agents were responsible for the death of one person, hospitalization of four more following this chemical weapons attack. If you look at polls in Russia you'll see that because of the way the TV shapes the issue and for whatever other reason, only 3 percent of Russians say at least that they believe that Russian agents were responsible for the attack.

CO: What does the board actually look like? What's on it?

AR: The board looks like anything that you might see in a normal map of the world -- it's animated so you've got all the little countries around the world and they might have a little I don't know a viking ship up near Sweden -- they had a big bowl I think of [inaudible] down by Ukraine. And then there were also a couple of images around the board that were tied more directly to what happened in Salisbury to the attack. So there is sort of a little spray bottle with an image of a skull and crossbones on the lower left hand corner. And then the lower right hand corner two men wearing these kind of disguises, were pretty clearly the 2 GRU agents.

CO: And the bottle of course is referring to what the police believe the Novichok -- the actual poison that was carried in -- and the image of the Salisbury Cathedral is of course what the men said that they were there to see, which their friend had said that was an amazing place with a 123 metre spire and a famous clock which is why they said they were there -- not to kill somebody.

AR: Yeah I mean it's all pretty snide you know. I mean there's a big question about this story to me when I was even working on it, you know what's the point really. I mean we all kind of know what this is about -- even though the makers of the game [inaudible] actually admit that -- you know they'll tell you, this is just a coincidence, etc. But there is something that's very kind of similar to the conversation that I've had about Novichok and about the Salisbury attack and Russia -- to this game which is like if Ukraine for instance on the conflict there is not a joke in Russia -- if other things are kind of not jokes you know even the interference in the US elections -- Salisbury for some reason in particular has become a real punchline. And it's really hard to get through conversations with some Russians without them not just denying what happened but really ridiculing it.

CO: When you interviewed the guys who made the game they said to them well if anyone died in Salisbury then we didn't want to offend anyone. And do they not understand that someone did die.

AR: I would say overall that they don't believe the television reports or that they're intentionally sort of saying that they don't believe in the television report. I think their language is pretty carefully chosen in order to differentiate Salisbury from other cases and to say no we don't believe what we see on TV -- we don't believe what the British police are saying. And you know that the line that they repeat to you and you don't just hear it from them but from a lot of people there which is we're never going to know the truth -- neither are you, and there's no proof whatsoever of what happened.

CO: There was a infamous interview on Russian television -- an interview with the two men, asking them point blank if they worked for the GRU, for the spy agency. And the interviewer says at some point, tell us anything that will make us believe you. So there seems to be, I mean in that interview, a fair bit of skepticism about what these guys -- their claim that they were just there to see the cathedral. So you're saying they don't -- but only 3 percent of Russians who were polled believed that actually those men did it and that they were there in Salisbury to murder somebody.

AR: Yeah absolutely. I mean you have to keep in mind of course that you know when somebody responds to a poll that's a certain form of political speech, right. You know it's not just what you know but it's what you're actually willing to admit to a pollster. So maybe it's very possible, and in my view a lot more people thought that that presentation was ridiculous and clearly something else was going on. But in terms of those who were actually willing to say, even anonymously, in a poll that yes Russia is behind this -- it's not just about believing in that but it's also being willing to admit it. And at that point a lot of people don't want to do it. You know they feel or at least they say that they feel that Russia has been pushed into a corner -- that the U.S. is guilty of much worse things, or that you know Russians are always being blamed for something without any evidence being given. So I do think that there's a real sense and a real desire to kind of mock in particular the Salisbury case in Russia. And if you ask you know that line, do you work for the GRU? Which he asked them point blank. I mean that's been turned into a T-shirt by the television station where it was asked. You know they sent chocolate cathedrals that looked like Salisbury to some other news stations earlier this year. There is a very careful way that the case is presented in Russia, on Russian television, in the way that Russians talk about it --that's kind of occupied a special place in dialogue here.

CO: All right Andrew we'll leave it there. And I appreciate you telling us this story. Thank you.

AR: Thank you.

KG: Andrew Roth is the Moscow correspondent for The Guardian. He was in Moscow.

[Music]

Jackie Shane

KG: By 1971, Jackie Shane was a star in Toronto. And then, she vanished...for decades. Making Ms. Shane reappear was a challenge. It took a long time to convince her to sign a contract to let the Chicago record label Numero Group re-issue her music. And now at 78 the pioneering transgender performer is nominated for a Grammy for Best Historical Album. That album is "Any Other Way." When you hear it in 2019, you're blown away by her charisma and her voice. And when you saw her back in the '60s, you were blown away by her glamour and her stage presence too. As she told the Associated Press quote, "When you walk out there people should say, 'whoa I like that.' And when I walk out stage, I'm the show." She was. Asked if you expected false modesty or for her to play down the fact that she was trans, you bought tickets for the wrong show. Now despite her initial doubts about having her music released, Jackie Shane says she's overwhelmed -- not just by the Grammy nod but by finding a new audience and by being recognized for her refusal to compromise. She told the AP quote "all of a sudden it's like people are saying 'thank you Jackie for being out there and speaking when no one else did.' No matter whether I initiated it or not, and I did not, this was the way that fate wanted it to be.".

[Music]

British Columbia

KG: The fallout continues in British Columbia over the bombshell report into alleged extreme spending violations on the part of the clerk of the legislature and its sergeant at arms. A separate criminal investigation is under way. This morning within an hour of each other, the Leader of the Opposition, Andrew Wilkinson, and the Premier of B.C., John Horgan, gave news conferences. Here's some of what Mr. Wilkinson had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

ANDREW WILKINSON: I'm calling for Premier Horgan and I to get together and say we have got to re-establish the trust in this institution immediately with a ban on foreign travel unless it's previously approved, complete posting of all expenses of everybody who works in this building, and thirdly an immediate and prompt review from the Auditor General of the accounting practices so that we can move forward with some degree of public trust in this institution.

REPORTER: Are you essentially calling for a cease fire here with the NDP -- that the Liberal are not going to continue raise questions about the speaker in question period -- you are asking for a kind of ceasefire in this proxy war that has been existing by all parties on this issue?

ANDREW WILKINSON: No one in this province benefits from a squabble between political parties about accounting issues in the past. What we need is to completely clear the air around here and the only way to do that is for the partisan sniping to stop so that we can all focus on what's good for British Columbia and re-establish the level of trust that we need in this society. Just to be clear British Columbians need to have faith in this institution -- that has been shaken. The only way to re-establish it is to completely clean house and that requires Premier Horgan and I to stand up together and say it's time to completely reset this organisation and move it forward on a footing that is seen to be credible and reliable.

KG: Andrew Wilkinson Leader of the Opposition of the B.C. Liberal Party. A few minutes later Premier Horgan spoke outside the legislature in Victoria.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN HORGAN: I want to thank you for coming. I will advise you that I just received a letter from the Leader of the Opposition calling for non-partisanship -- I don't disagree with the principle but I have to draw a little bit of a history lesson for all in attendance here today. I recall in December of this year -- or in December last year, the Leader of the Opposition called the speaker a rogue and out of control. He said something had to be done about the speaker -- the speaker was a problem. As recently as this week the House leader for the B.C. Liberals said, why did it take so long? Why did it take so long for the speaker to expose the excesses in the clerk's office? And so today for the Leader of the Opposition to say stand with me and defend the indefensible is not something I'm prepared to do. I'm prepared to support the legislative assembly management committee. I'm prepared to support the principle that we bring in -- the Auditor General to get to the bottom of this. But I will not allow the Leader of the Opposition to pretend that this just happens. This is a result of years of entitlements in this institution. It's offensive to me. It's offensive to British Columbians. And for the Leader of the Opposition to have been part and parcel of this for a decade and a half -- to be part of a party that imposed Mr. James on the legislature -- and the people of British Columbia is not acceptable to me. Putting that aside, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about the substance of this issue and that is excesses in the clerk's office.

REPORTER: So I guess there's no cease fire here. But do you think he's taking this position because they look weaker, much weaker, than your party?

JOHN HORGAN: Well this is the problem Keith right there. It's about gamesmanship. It's about one upping. Had the Leader of the Opposition adopted the position that the government did and at the time the green caucus did about allowing this to run its course --we wouldn't have had the outrageous allegations made against Mr. Plecas, we wouldn't have had question periods where the questions that were obviously out of order were put time and time again to the attorney general. That was all politics. It was all posturing. Now, the Leader of the Opposition wants to pretend to the people of British Columbia that he's above that. Nonsense. Let's get above that by using the tools that we have here -- the Legislative Assembly management committee can and should manage these issues.

KG: Premier John Horgan speaking to reporters this morning outside the legislature in Victoria.

[Music]

Part 3: Vancouver writer says, he is not very convinced that courts will find Jassi Sidhu’s mother and uncle guilty.

Refugees: Lloyd Axworthy

Guest: Llyod Axworthy

KG: The global refugee system wasn't designed to handle the crisis it currently faces. That's the diagnosis of the World Refugee Council. The group of political leaders, experts, and activists was at the United Nations today calling for a rewrite of the rules governing the flow, funding, and settlement of refugees. Otherwise, they warn that situation could get much worse. Lloyd Axworthy is the Chair of the World Refugee Council. We reached the former Liberal foreign affairs minister in New York.

CO: Mr. Axworthy why do you think that it's time to rewrite these rules around how we treat and help refugees?

LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well Carol I think the issue of displaced refugee people around the world is reaching a kind of critical stage -- that if we don't make some reforms it could begin to really flounder, maybe even crack, because there are just a lot of reforms that need to be done. And secondly, I think that there's an enthusiasm to deal with these issues. The UN has endorsed a compact on refugees and there's a lot of energy and enthusiasm to really tackle the issue of supporting and protecting refugees. What's lacking is good political leadership.

CO: And where there is leadership though -- those who have signed onto the refugee convention like Canada, what we've seen is that opposition politicians in Canada and elsewhere are not just pushing back on it but are scoring points. We heard Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, Maxime Bernier, who say this is an abdication of Canadian sovereignty to have actually signed onto an agreement for how to treat refugees. What do you say to them?

LA: It's such a specious argument about signing away sovereignty. What is sovereignty? I mean it enables you to make decisions to protect and support the people that you represent. This is a political ploy. And I think one reason why this report is important, it provides an alternative. It shows people that there are practical, effective, things that can be done to relief some of the angst, to help reinforce our borders and at the same time keep them open. And I really find that it is just a little distasteful that people are exploiting anxieties like this for just sheer political gain.

CO: There are nearly 70 million people who are displaced either internally or externally. We're expecting that to rise. We know this has been called the worst crisis since World War Two. So what is it -- you got fifty five suggestions I believe or more than 50 -- just to give us a rundown of the most important ones you think would actually fix this refugee system.

LA: We start with the word action. We have had the agreements at the UN on a broad base of objectives. Now we have to translate that into very specific measures. And the areas that we think are pretty fundamental is to reset the whole financial system. Right now the entire refugee arena is supported by voluntary donations. That's like raising money for the [inaudible] or prom or something. We [inaudible] that there has got to be a refinancing of the system. We have come up with several proposals -- setting up a new system of financial bonds, getting trade preferences. Perhaps the one that has caused a lot of interest is looking at the frozen assets that have been put in piggy banks by a lot of warlords and dictators -- and going after to reallocate that for humanitarian purpose. And I think there's an openness to make that happen.

CO: One of the things is you know -- the biggest issue is that the only way to really turn this around is to prevent people from leaving their countries. And people don't leave home unless they have to. They are leaving because they can't stay there. So what are you suggesting in this that might change that, might make it so that people are not forced to stay in the country but reduce the reasons why they have to go?

LA: Well a key element is to provide basics of an ordinary life: employment, protection and security, opportunity to have your kids educated, to have proper healthcare. Those are not big items -- they are pretty basic for people to exercise their humanity and their interest. And the moment you start denying these things, then I think you create a class of people who lose their incentive, lose their hope, and that's what we want to revive a little bit.

CO: Okay. But by freezing the assets of people who are creating the conditions where people have to flee. I mean did you think that the Taliban cares about that? The Al-Shabaab. Boko Haram. ISIS. I mean they're not going to care about that. Those are places where we're seeing large numbers of refugees flee -- they are coming from those environments. So how do you stop that?

LA: Well Carol if you start restricting the use of that money -- if you're reallocate it for proper humanitarian purposes they won't have the money to carry out their terrorist activities. I mean they've got all kinds of networks of finance strung around the world. I remember in the days when the blood diamonds of Liberia were being used to support al-Qaeda. So I think by using a lot of the new techniques of forensic investigations and financial assessments we can go after those funds. They shouldn't stay in the banks or the vaults. They should be brought out and put back to constructive positive use.

CO: You know that politicians, political leaders, not only resisting the refugee crisis -- but it's actually -- refugee bashing is a popular tool for campaigning in elections. So what makes you think that you're going to have any support for this plan?

LA: Well you know one thing I've learned Carol I guess in my years in politics was that people look to political leaders and to governments to solve problems, to do things that are effective and useful. If we simply abandon the idea that there are no solutions and we turn it over to the ideologues and the harangues -- then of course people are going to lose their faith and their confidence. The point of our council is to say now we need the practical measures, we have to show people these problems can be managed properly. And then I think help restore the sense of trust and confidence that the world can work.

CO: What kind of reaction did you get at the United Nations today to your plan?

LA: It's been pretty good. I mean we actually -- in a room of a 100 people people -- and the basic reaction is these measures are workable. And that's what we're aiming at --stuff that would provide a refinancing of the refugee system. Not going after more taxpayers or stuff, but actually using money to invest in bonds, doing trade preferences for those countries that offer willingness to set up industries where refugees are employed. I think if people see those kinds of actions taking place they're going to say, yeah right -- now we've got an agenda, we've got a blueprint. And it's not just a bunch of ad hoc actions from exploitive politicians.

CO: Well it's an ambitious plan but that's not new to you. So we'll be watching how this turns out. Mr. Axworthy thank you.

LA: Thank you Carol. Good to talk to you and we'll hopefully talk about this again.

CO: All right. Bye bye.

LA: Bye bye.

KG: Lloyd Axworthy is the Chair of the World Refugee Council, and he's a former Canadian Minister of Foreign Affairs. We reached him at the United Nations in New York.

[Music]

Vernon "Bud" Butterfield

KG: Alberta has lost a legend of the rodeo. Vernon "Bud" Butterfield died last Friday in Ponoka at the age of 88. The Ponoka Stampede Association posted, "God gained another incredible cowboy for that big rodeo in the sky." In the '50s and '60s, 'Bud' Butterfield won six Canadian championships for steer wrestling. He won four more titles at the Calgary Stampede. He was inducted into the Canadian Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame in 1996. Bud's younger brother, Brian, spoke to Mark Connelly, host of CBC Radio's "Edmonton AM." Mark began by asking Brian what he remembers about growing up with his older brother.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN BUTTERFIELD: Well when we were kids -- you know at our country school once a year they'd have those track meets for all the students. I guess the first sign that Bud was quite an athlete, he'd came with a whole fistful of red ribbons eh, because he was you know a gifted athlete.

MARK CONNELLY: Now if Bud was a steer wrestler I'm assuming he was a big strong guy.

BB: Yeah he was. You know somehow or the other he was extra strong. Of course you have heard arm wrestling, eh?

MC: Right.

BB: I think Bud, in all of the years he arm wrestled, he said he only got beat once. In fact when he was in Texas -- do you remember the TV show Ponderosa?

MC: Oh yeah. Back in the day. Yeah.

BB: Well some of his competitors got old Hoss Cartwright.

MC: Oh yeah.

BB: I remember he was a big monster a guy.

MC: He was an ex-football player.

BB: Yeah. Well they brought him to try and arm wrestle with Bud -- Bud said he just beat him easy.

MC: He won so many titles over the years in rodeo, was there one that really stood out for you?

BB: Well I think maybe the -- winning Calgary at the time was a big thing for him.

MC: Yeah. Calgary Stampede would be a big deal for sure.

BB: And you know a lot of people don't realize that but Bud really didn't get started in rodeo until he was 25 years old. If he would have started at 20, he probably would have had another three or four or five championships.

KG: That was Brian Butterfield brother of steer wrestling champion 'Bud' Butterfield --speaking to Mark Connelly host of "Edmonton AM." Bud Butterfield died last Friday. He was 88.

[Music]

Sidhu extradition

Guest: Fabian Dawson

KG: It began with a forbidden love. And ended with a deadly attack. It's been almost two decades since 25-year-old Jaswinder (Jassi) Sidhu was murdered. The Maple Ridge, B.C. woman met and fell in love with a poor Indian rickshaw driver named Mithu Singh. Against her family's wishes, they married. She was killed by a group of men who attacked the couple -- slitting Jassi's throat and leaving her husband for dead. Jassi's mother and uncle are accused of paying off the killers. And they had avoided prosecution in India...until now. After years of legal battles they've now been extradited to India where they will appear in court tomorrow. Fabian Dawson broke the original story of Jassi's murder. He's a former deputy editor of both the Vancouver Sun and the Vancouver Province -- and the lead author of the book Justice for Jassi. We reached him in Vancouver.

CO: Fabian I know you have been following and reporting on this case and writing about it for nearly 20 years now. What is it like to see the mother and the uncle face the court in India?

FABIAN DAWSON: Well it took quite a bit to get this chapter of the saga complete in Canada and now the story shifts to India. And while there is a sense of relief that they will be in court or at least getting their day in court -- I am not, and I hope I'm wrong by saying this, I'm not very convinced that the courts there will find them guilty. There is a higher chance of them at the end of it getting an acquittal.

CO: And just remind us what the charges are -- what Jassi's mother and her uncle are accused of doing.

FD: They are charged with orchestrating the murder of Jassi. So they're charged as conspirators in the murder case that goes back to 2008 when she went to India and she fell in love with auto rickshaw driver, who was a neighbour as well, by the name of Mithu. And despite the objections of the parents and her family, she went ahead and got secretly married. And when the family found out and couldn't convince her to dissolve the marriage, the family according to police there hired a bunch of assassins to actually take out Mithu not so much Jassi. So in the abduction attempt where they thought they had left him for dead they had grabbed her and took her to a farmhouse where more calls were made. Jassi refused to come back to Canada and basically told the people on the phone that she would go to the cops -- and subsequently she was tortured -- from what we understand maybe sexually assaulted and murdered.

CO: It's just a gruesome murder. I mean her husband survived that attack. She died and there are a number of people who have been already convicted -- others charged for her murder in India. What is the evidence that ties the order of this crime to her mother back in Canada and her uncle?

FD: Well after Jassi was found dead -- primarily because of the work of one police officer by the name of Swaran Singh -- they had arrested about 12 to 14 people involved in what they thought was the entire gang. Subsequently seven were charged. Three were acquitted. After four were sentenced to life, the case then went up to the Supreme Court of India. The court upheld the sentence of three of the four. One is a police inspector, and two hired assassins. The fourth person is Darshan Singh -- he another uncle of Jassi. According to police he worked with the family here to organize the hit, but the Supreme Court of India has tossed out the evidence against him. So the contention from Supreme Court down there is that since Darshan has been acquitted of a similar charge that the Canadian duo are facing, chances are that they may also be acquitted on the same counts.

CO: The overall accusation here is that the family ordered this execution -- of at least their son-in-law -- because the family's honour had been besmirched. Is that right?

FD: Yeah. The family has always denied responsibility for anything that happened. And their argument as to why they did not support the marriage or they were opposed to the marriage is that the family name Sidhu -- the mother's maiden name Sidhu -- is also the family name of the husband which denotes some kind of relationship within the same village -- and custom-ly in Punjab, they don't marry from the same village and they felt that that was a violation of their tradition and custom. On the other hand there was also evidence to show that Jassi [inaudible] position to marry a wealthy older man who wanted his immigration papers and was willing to fork out probably about half a million dollars to get [inaudible] through that marriage of convenience.

CO: So it's possible -- one of the accusations is the family stood to gain a lot of money from her marrying somebody else.

FD: That's right.

CO: You know you said that it's unlikely you think this will end in acquittal or they will not be convicted for the crime there -- so what happens then? Is there any other recourse -- there is a woman who is dead and her husband who was wounded. Is there any place else that this case can go?

FD: I doubt it. And you know I mean I hope I'm wrong. But I find it difficult to see how the apex court in India's decision on one [inaudible] in the case would not be reflected on the other two -- unless Indian police have something or the Indian prosecutors have some direct evidence. So the volume of evidence that they have right now -- they have the confessions of the killers, who said they were paid. They have 147 phone calls that they have tracked prior to the murder -- that went from Maple Ridge to the assassins to the uncle Darshan back and forth. They have the police investigation and a few other elements in the prosecution. But the key is that 147 phone calls -- so the Indian court in acqutting Darshan the uncle in India basically said yes there was a call but the phone was not in his direct control all the time so he could have -- other people could have used that phone so they gave him the benefit of the doubt despite the other evidence.

CO: All right we will leave it there Fabian. And we'll be following this case. And I'm glad you have been following it for all these years and you're able to tell us the details. Thank you.

FD: Thank you.

CO: Bye bye.

FD: Bye.

KG: Fabian Dawson is the lead author of the book Justice for Jassi. We reached him in Vancouver.

[Music]

Video game addiction

KG: Video games are fun. Until you can't stop playing them. And then they become a virtual nightmare. Cam Adair of Calgary was a gaming addict. At one point he played games like 'Counterstrike' and 'World of Warcraft' for up to 15 hours at a time. Now he's turned the story of his addiction into an online documentary. Mr. Adair is the founder of 'Game Quitters' -- the world's largest support community for video game addictions, serving 95 countries. His own struggle brought him to the edge before he turned his life around. He shared that story with the CBC's Doug Dirks on "The Homestretch."

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Gaming fulfills you know so many different needs. And it's an escape. It's a social connection. It's a measurable progress. It's a sense of purpose. But it's also a fully immersive experience. So for me I'm very competitive, I'm a hockey player, and gaming is like I can do that for 15 hours straight and not even think about it, not even realize it.

VOICE 2: Yeah. What was the turning point then for you?

VOICE 1: The turning point was the night I wrote the suicide note. And that was a turning point for me because that night you know I had planned it, knew when I was going to do it, I was going to do it that night. A friend invited me to go watch a movie -- Superbad --if you recall that movie. We went and we laughed. And I had a great time. And it was like going from writing a suicide note to laughing at a theater with a couple of friends made me kind of reflect on, 'whoa I'm actually a danger to myself right now and I need to make a change.' So I went home and I asked my dad to help me find the counsellor, and he did. And that turned things around.

VOICE 2: How did your parents deal with this as you were going through it because clearly you had a problem?

VOICE 1: They tried a lot of different things. You know my dad got rid of the modem at one point. And I would ground them back -- like my parents would ground me, and I'd put passwords on the computer, I'd take power cords from the TVs and the computers and hide them until I was ungrounded. And you know it was always like if they tried to enforce some sort of a rule, I was coming back in some way with vengeance. And it's really challenging. And I deal with families now who -- you know they removed devices and their kid self-harms or threatens commits suicide or refuses to go to school. And so yes parenting is a big part of this -- enforcing limits, boundaries, but it's not that simple.

VOICE 2: So how old were you when all this was happening and how long did it last?

VOICE 1: I was addicted for about ten years and it was off and on. You know during school -- I had school, I had hockey, so I had limited time but then during the summers it would be 16 hours a day all summer long binging. When I was 18, 19, 20 that's when it was at its worst. And that's after school was no longer there. Hockey was no longer there.

VOICE 2: And how old were you when you quit?

VOICE 1: I was 19 at the first time. And I relapsed after two years and then start gaming 16 hours a day for five months straight. And during that time I realized you know something else was going on and I need to make a change again, quit again. And I haven't gamed in about seven and a half years now.

KG: Former gaming addict Cam Adair speaking with CBC Calgary's Doug Dirks.

Sweethearts

SOUNDCLIP

[Music: Auf Wiedersehen]

KG: Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians with "Auf Wiedersehen, Sweetheart." A poignant song which I believe a group of men are singing goodbye to their favourite Valentine's Day candy in very close harmony. "Call me," "Fax me," "Text me," "Be mine." The messages on Sweetheart's candy are always short and usually sweet -- if a little chalky. But this year those little hearts will not be yours, mine, or anyone's. This year there are no Sweethearts. You're thinking two word phrases like, oh no and shut up. But it's true. Last year all the assets of the New England Confectionary Company better known as Necco were sold off. It was a sad end for a company that had been producing candy for more than a century. And people feared a sad end for their favourite candies including: Necco Wafers, Canada Mints, and Sweethearts. Well the good news is that the Spangler Candy Company -- which bought Necco -- will keep making those little candies. The bad news is that it will take a while. As the company's CEO said, "There are a lot of manufacturing challenges and unanswered questions at this point and we want to make sure these brands meet consumer expectations when they re-enter the market." Wow, he sounds just like Willy Wonka. So no Sweethearts in 2019. But "Auf wiedersehen" literally means "until I see you again." Which is apt according to Spangler -- Sweethearts will be back by Valentine's Day 2020. So don't worry -- this is just a temporary case of heart failure.

January 24, 2019 Episode Transcript

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