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The AIH Transcript for July 25, 2019

Hosts: Megan Williams and Chris Howden

Prologue

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Hello I'm Megan Williams.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight...

MW: Same page not in his book. Two former ambassadors say a federal official asked them to deliver a unified message on Canada's approach to China -- and one tells us he was puzzled by it.

CH: Hasta la vista Ricky. After nearly two weeks of demonstrations protesters in Puerto Rico are cheering instead of chanting because Governor Ricardo Rossello is stepping down.

MW: Cutting remarks. At an event in Ontario, an Egyptian Cabinet Minister says she'll slice up critics of her government which prompted our guests to call the RCMP.

CH: A victory for a-common sense. He lost his arm in 2002 -- but a new thought controlled prostheses has allowed a Utah man to experience the feeling of touch again for the first time in 17 years.

MW: The suspect was grilled but it wouldn't talk. So it took an amateur detective to solve the mystery of how a hamburger from a California fast food chain wound up in perfect condition on a street in New York City.

CH: And can redo attitude. Barney Smith spent decades collecting and redecorating toilet seats -- and tonight we'll celebrate the legacy of a man whose toilet seat art museum made visitors flip their lids. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that celebrates the life of the potty.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Barney Smith — creator of the Toilet Seat Art Museum — dies at 98

Guy Saint-Jacques: China

Guest: Guy Saint-Jacques

CH: There's been no shortage of media commentary from ex-diplomats over Canada's fraying relationship with China -- including here on this radio show. And it seems like the government of Canada has been listening to that media commentary. A pair of former ambassadors to China say that in recent days they've each received a call from Paul Thoppil -- a senior official at Global Affairs Canada requesting there be a single unified public message on China. Former Ambassador David Mulroney says the official told him to run past his public comments with the prime minister's office before making them -- a request that Mr. Mulroney says made him feel uncomfortable. Guy Saint-Jacques also got a phone call from that government official. We reached the former ambassador to China in Montreal.

MW: Mr. Saint-Jacques when you got a call from this official in Ottawa, what specifically was their request to you?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: Well I must say first that I was pleased to receive a call from Mr. Thoppil because he has just been appointed as Assistant Deputy Minister for Asia at Global Affairs and I have known him for some time and I was expecting just a friendly conversation. But quickly he said that in fact he wanted to pass on the message that came from the office of the prime minister. He referred to the interview that the Japanese ambassador gave last week in which he referred to the challenges that Japan has faced with China a number of times and he advocated for patience, for firmness, and also with speaking with one voice. And so the message of Mr. Thoppil was it would be important to speak with one voice and have a unified message coming from Canada. So I said well have I said things that ran contrary to the strategy of the government? I said...

MW: Did Mr. Thoppil name any specific comments you had made to the media?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: No, in my case -- and you know obviously he is new in his job but he couldn't provide specific examples. And I think probably what is more of a concern for them were some of the comments made by my former colleague David Mulroney with regard to the consular advice that is in place for travellers that would want to go to work to China. David has been quite adamant that people should avoid travelling to China then for tourists. He said well why would you go to a country where there is no freedom of expression, where human rights are trampled, where there's one million we Uyghurs in jail? And it's obviously contrary to the official government advice for travel to China where the government says that visitors should exercise caution.

MW: David Mulroney of course is the former ambassador to China -- and he got a phone call too from Mr. Thoppil which he said left him somewhat uncomfortable. Do you share Mr. Mulroney's concerns?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: I was a bit puzzled by what was exactly the message here coming from PMO. I didn't feel like the government wanted to control what I had to say but I told Mr. Thoppil you know you have to tell me more because I don't understand exactly what is the message here.

MW: The government says the phone calls were made to keep you informed of the circumstances around the two detained Canadians and it issued a statement to us saying they undertook such engagement in part to ensure informed public discussion of important foreign policy issues so that comments of others such as former diplomats are well-informed by current circumstances. But did you feel that phone call was doing what the government says it was doing?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: Well I must say that there was no update provided on the legal process that concerns Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor well I know very well this process because we went through that when I was ambassador with Kevin and Julia Garratt. Again you know I would need to know more about the genesis for this call. I can understand that in the case of David because he had made some very specific comments with regard to travel to China that might have concerns.

MW: A government spokesperson has told us that neither the Prime Minister's Office nor the Foreign Minister's office would ever attempt to prevent any former diplomat from speaking freely and publicly. But do you feel given the situation and this phone call that you can really speak freely about how Canada is handling the situation in China?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: I'm not the best judge but I think that I tried to be as objective as possible and yes I have offered suggestions and the government has not followed all of my suggestions. They have followed some. But at the end of my call with Mr. Thoppil I said look you know I want to be useful, I think we share the same goals that we want to free Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor -- all this being said I still remain a bit puzzled why did I get this call? What was exactly the message there?

MW: What is your suspicion? Like what makes you uncomfortable about this phone call?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: I can't agree that we need now as much as possible to speak with one voice. This being said I don't think that the government has to worry about professional diplomats. I think that they have been -- if there were messages that sounded discordant from the Canadian government position I think it came more from former members of the Liberal Party of Canada than from professional diplomats. And maybe that's where the calls should have been made. I remain a bit puzzled. But you know I intend to continue to speak freely and to offer comments and...

MW: Well on that vein, what do you think our government should be doing to repair relations with China and secure the release of these two Canadians?

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: The only hope for a quick resolution has to come from Washington. If Washington and Beijing can agree on a new trade agreement -- I think President Trump needs this as he goes into electoral mode. President Xi Jinping also needs this because the Chinese economy is not doing very well. If this does not happen then we have to brace ourselves for years of difficulties with China. And for this reason that's why in my view the government has to announce publicly that it will revise its engagement strategy with China. You know we have to recognize that dealing with the new China -- the China of Xi Jinping -- it's an authoritarian regime. There are a number of things that we have to change in the way we want to engage with them.

MW: Mr. Saint-Jacques thanks so much for speaking with me today.

GUY SAINT-JACQUES: My pleasure. Thank you very much.

CH: Guy Saint-Jacques is Canada's former ambassador to China. We reached him in Montreal.

[Music]

Egyptian Minister Comments

Guest: Ehab Lotayef

CH: Last weekend, when Egypt's Immigration Minister Nabila Makram was visiting Mississauga, Ontario, she gave a speech at a private party. It got a lot of laughs, and a lot of applause. But many members of the Egyptian diaspora who learned of the speech later were shaken by it. In a cell phone video taken at the event Ms. Makram is heard saying in Arabic that she would, quote, "slice up" critics of her government including in Canada. Ehab Lotayef is a member of the Egyptian Canadian Coalition for Democracy. After he watched the video he reported it to the RCMP. We reached him in Montreal.

MW: Mr. Lotayef what were you hoping to accomplish by reporting this video to the RCMP?

EHAB LOTAYEF: This incident was very disturbing to us that a minister would come on Canadian soil and make such threats. And I can't take those kind of threats as a joke because either they reflect the culture that is prevalent within the government of Egypt or they are just a reflection of an intention to really silence all dissent abroad like they are doing to dissent in Egypt. So what I was hoping for is that first the Canadian authorities from a security point of view have to take this seriously and investigate and see if there are any threats imminent or coming towards the Egyptian dissidents in Canada. And number two on the diplomatic level that the Canadian government would express its strong dismay that something like this would be said on Canadian soil directed towards Canadian citizens most who are at least residents of Canada.

MW: Now you watched some of her speech that was videotaped. At what point did her comments begin to disturb you?

EL: Oh her comments were disturbing from the point where she started to talk about dissent. She was saying that we have only one country Egypt and we all love this country and anybody abroad who would speak against Egypt would be sliced and she made a slaughtering gesture with her hand on her neck. And that right away was shocking to me and very disturbing because we know that there were incidents by regimes that are very close to the Egyptian regime that did that to their dissidents abroad. I mean the incident of journalist Jamal Khashoggi is not hidden to anybody around the world. So it was really a shock. It was also a shock that the room that was obviously mostly but not surely a hundred percent because somebody did leak the video in a negative sense and was happy with such a comment which was also very disturbing to me.

MW: The fact that the audience was laughing?

EL: The fact that the audience was laughing, the fact that there was a member of the Toronto legislature an elected member of Egyptian origin who was there and we didn't hear any negative or condemning comment from him about this, the fact that this happened on Canadian soil the fact that she takes such a matter so casually and we can't really accept that this is something that should be taken casually in any way and she is a minister, she is a member of government, and she can't just say things like that and expect them to be like I was joking. She was not in her living room with her family to say such a thing -- and even if she were I mean there is political correctness about things. It reflects the culture that is prevalent within the current Egyptian regime. And I am sure if this was not a veiled threat which is which would be a horrible thing at least it is a reflection of how the government deals with dissent in Egypt and we know of course that this is how the government deals with dissent inside Egypt. The number of people who are detained without trial, the number of people who are in jail, the number of extrajudicial killings that happened over the past five-six years -- all those things together make it very very clear that this is not something to be taken lightly.

MW: Now the minister -- Nabila Makram -- says that her comments were misinterpreted. I mean is it possible that she was just making a joke in bad taste?

EL: I would never be able to take it that way. And I think it is a reflection of the culture that's prevalent in the Egyptian government that is a strong belief that any opposition should be silenced in any way. And really this is what is happening inside Egypt. Today we are in a situation in Egypt where the current regime has turned against even those who support it and brought it to power and supported the coup. So any voice of dissent even very soft dissent is treated that way. We cannot take it as a joke. We should not take it as a joke. In any respectable country in the world a minister saying that on foreign soil the least that can be done is for that ministers to be sacked.

MW: We've reached out to the Egyptian embassy in Ottawa for comment but have not received a response. What response would you like to hear from them?

EL: I think the Egyptian government should deal with this seriously. The Canadian government -- because I don't have much hope in the Egyptian government -- but the Canadian government should deal with this very seriously, they should summon the Egyptian ambassador, should ask for a clarification, should ask for an official apology and a withdrawal of such a statement by the minister herself. If she is still on Canadian soil she should herself hold the meeting and publicly apologize for that. This is the least we can expect.

MW: Mr. Lotayef thanks very much for speaking with me today.

EL: Thank you.

CH: Ehab Lotayef is a member of the Egyptian Canadian Coalition for Democracy. We reached him in Montreal.

[Music]

Barney Smith Encore

CH: Last time we spoke with Barney Smith -- The King of the Commode -- he told us he was getting ready to leave this world. And on Tuesday -- 19 months after that interview -- he did. Mr. Smith was 98. The retired master plumber was known for his impressive collection of toilet seats. Well over 1000 of them, many of them decorated with his own original paintings. He had toilet seats covered with pieces of the Berlin Wall. A toilet seat from NASA's Challenger space shuttle. And one from the airplane that carried the body of Aristotle Onassis. Back in 2017, he spoke with our regular host Carol Off about his world famous Toilet Seat Art Museum in San Antonio. At the time that collection was for sale. Here's an encore broadcast of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Hello, Barney?

BARNEY SMITH: Hello there.

CO: How are you?

BS: So you’re the host of the show?

CO: I'm the host of the show.

BS: Oh good! I’m glad to talk to you about my toilet seat collection.

CO: But now Barney, why are you selling your collection?

BS: Because I'm 96-years-old, and I’m getting ready to leave this whole world.

CO: No!

BS: I've seen a lot of changes in my 96 years.

CO: You know and some of those changes are actually on toilet seat covers aren't they? That you painted.

BS: Oh yes, in fact, my wife and I’s — I've got a last anniversary that we celebrated on our 74th wedding anniversary — I’ve got that on a toilet seat. That’s the last one that I put.

CO: What’s on that toilet seat?

BS: It's just me kissing her goodbye.

CO: On the toilet seat?

BS: On the toilet seat.

CO: Well, how many toilet seats do you have in your museum?

BS: 1,322.

CO: You've got on some of these… I've got pictures. You got license plate….

BS: I need a bottle of water to drink.

CO: All right… good idea.

WOMAN IN BACKGROUND: Did you hang up on her?

CO: [Sound: Laughter] No, no, I'm still here now.

BS: Now I’ve got it on the speaker.

CO: OK Barney, I'm still here. Now you’ve got license plates, you got tributes to all the states and to Canadian provinces too.

BS: I’ve got five of the ones out of Canada the ones — the ones that I could get my hands on the license plates. I put them all with Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia and I’ve got about a half-dozen of them.

CO: I think you got Manitoba too.

BS: I’ve got the Yukon.

CO: Yukon, right. And so you've got those on your toilet seats. But there's a really weird one you got. It looks like a swarm of hornets and a hornets’ nest.

BS: Hornets’ Nest is the one that the yellow jacket did to little brown hornet and it stung me on top of her head. I said I’m going to put you on my toilet seat. So I put a wasps’ nest on the toilet seat.

CO: Now can anyone… I mean can anyone actually sit on these toilet seats and do their business?

BS: Can they do what?

CO: Can you sit on the toilet seat? Can you actually use one of these toilet seats?

BS: The hinges are taken off. You may fall through the toilet if you sit on a plaque. I call them plaques.

CO: Right.

BS: They’re made out of toilet seats, but they’ve got the hinges off.

CO: Barney, why toilet seats? I mean why not dinner plates or doors or something? Why are you painting on toilet seats?

BS: Because I’m a master plumber, retired.

CO: You were a plumber?

BS: I’m a genuine electrician, retired. I’m a minister, retired. And I'm so tired because I'm almost gone. I tell you, it won’t be long until I’m gone. I got to get rid of my toilet seat collection. I've got 1,322 toilet seats, and they're all catalogued. In fact, I've got the book right here in my hand now. Number one is my dog tags. Number 500 is “Dogs” that's the one that I was supposed to quit, but I didn’t. I’ve been in the doghouse ever since.

CO: You told your wife you're going to quit at 500?

BS: Yes. That's my “Dogs.”

BS: I’m hitting the button again! I am back on the speakerphone.

CO: OK.

BS: I’m going to lose you there. I can’t hold the telephone up to my ear without hitting a button or two. It’s a little, portable phone.

CO: Barney, I’m going to let you go. But just tell me what does it cost? What does someone have to come up with in order to buy your collection?

BS: I'm going to let that be whoever is interested in purchasing it.

CO: OK. Well, we'll see if anybody in Canada or one of our listeners wants 1000 toilet seats with your art on it.

BS: 1,322 toilet seats hanging in my museum.

CO: Exactly. All right, we'll tell everybody how they can see your toilet seats, Barney. And I hope you have many more years ahead of you, in spite of what you're saying. And it’s good to talk to you. Thanks.

BS: Well, I'm so glad to get to talk with you. I want you to come and see me. What part of Canada are you from?

CO: I'm in Toronto. I'm in Toronto

BS: Toronto.

CO: Yeah.

BS: We went to Toronto and went on the train. And we went right underneath the hotel, and got on the escalator, and right up in the lobby of Toronto that is the Queen Elizabeth is it?

CO: That's in Montreal. Anyway Barney, it's great to talk to you. And good luck with your museum.

BS: Alrighty. Thank you so much. Give me a call some time and see how things are going.

CO: All right, we'll do that.

BS: Alrighty. Have a good time now.

CO: You too. Bye bye.

BS: Bye bye.

CH: That was Barney Smith -- The King of the Commode -- he died this week at the age of 98. Shortly after that 2017 interview with Carol, Mr. Smith did sell his toilet seat collection to a Texas truck yard owner who gave the seats a new home just north of Dallas. At the time Mr. Smith told reporters that knowing his collection would remain on display, quote, "makes my heart rejoice." And to see photos of some of Barney Smith's toilet seats, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: Protester behind Puerto Rico's historic march says governor's resignation is just the start

Puerto Rico Governor

Guest: Tony

CH: It was a moment of elation for the hundreds of thousands of Puerto Ricans who've been taking to the streets in protest. Yesterday, just before midnight, Governor Ricardo Rossello announced that he will step down. Here's what it sounded like when protesters outside the governor's mansion heard the news.

SOUNDCLIP

[Crowd cheering]

CH: Protesters have been calling for his resignation for more than a week, after group texts leaked in which the governor and some advisers exchanged homophobic and sexist comments. Those protests culminated in a march on Monday that brought a half a million people into the streets of San Juan. Tony is a filmmaker and one of the people who made that historic march happen. We're not identifying him to protect his family's safety. We reached him in San Juan.

MW: Tony where were you the moment that Ricardo Rossello announced his resignation?

TONY: I was in front of the barricades -- in front of the governor's mansion in Old San Juan. And people were protesting and chanting -- mixed with dancing and singing. And someone pulled out their phone and there was the message from the governor and they put the microphone to it. And then once he said that he was stepping down then it went from protest to party.

MW: So can you describe that for me? What were the people doing on the street that night?

TONY: Leaders from different groups just showed up together and they came in from separate sides like there was a queer group that was in front of the cathedral having a dance party. There was a giant crowd of youth and people dancing reggaeton following the van that was playing music. There was protesters playing live music with instruments in front of the barricade and then everything kind of just mixed together. But honestly I was exhausted because it's been a long process and I've been going to as many protest as I am able to go -- and I've been documenting them and so I was dead, I was just so tired.

MW: You got involved in these protests pretty early on. Can you tell me about the flyer you posted online last Tuesday?

TONY: So my mom -- we were watching Sopranos because we were so stressed out by everything and Sopranos is more violent so it almost helps you relax. And she said you know what we need to do is close the highway. And she said we did that in the 2000s for the protests to get the Navy out of Vieques -- one of our islands. And then I saw the picture it was an aerial shot of the march and I was like wow. I went upstairs and I just made a really amateur flyer that said on the highway they can't trap us with tear gas and then a picture of the March of 2000 -- and I said relive the march from 2000 for peace for Vieques. And I did it with data and I put Monday because I felt that would be a really uncomfortable day because people have to go to work but that's all I did. All I did was post a flyer and then 11,000 people shared it and it reached 500,000 people and in a few hours I went to my dad and I was like dad it's already like I don't even know how many thousand people already shared it. And I was getting really stressed about this because I just knew that you know that the more that it spread the more it was just going to happen.

MW: Amazing that you accidentally organized the biggest protest in Puerto Rican history.

TONY: It was just a little spark. But all I did was an image you know and everything else was everyone else.

MW: Yeah. You triggered it. So what brought you out to protest against Governor Rossello?

TONY: I think everyone went for different reasons. I was more upset about the corruption charges from the week before from the former secretary of education 15 million dollars with the few other people that also got arrested by the FBI. So I showed up mostly because I think our government needs more transparency. You know I think if you're hiding something, you're hiding something. And that's been the case for many years.

MW: What about the homophobic texts?

TONY: The leaked telegram chat brought up a lot of identity conversations. People were upset from all sorts of places -- your socioeconomic background to your gender to your sexuality. So I think a lot of people were definitely and are still upset about all of that. For me personally what's interesting -- and this artist Robi Draco Rosa I think said it best, he said what's crazy about these 800 something pages is that all that it says is how they manipulate everything and how they just move everything like a chess piece. There's no conversations here about taking care of our island, doing the best job -- it's almost like a mafia. It's almost like you know The Sopranos just like these people in this chat just thinking about themselves and not thinking about the people that they represent.

MW: The 800 pages being the group texts that were leaked.

TONY: Yes. The leaked chat that got released.

MW: Now that Governor Rossello has signed his resignation letter, what would you like to see happen next?

TONY: Well now there are conversations that Wanda Vazquez will be appointed as governor. And I'm actually learning as I go right now. What I will want to see next is what I wrote in my sign that I carried in the march -- you know it just says 'a new country' and in it I wrote different values that I think we forgot and I think at the end of the day the real problem is that the people that have been assigned to lead the country are thinking about themselves and not its residents. And it's as simple as that. They're just in there for themselves and we need a leader that is thinking about us.

MW: Wanda Vazquez is closely aligned with Mr. Rossello. Do you think that she can bring about any of the change that you and so many others would like?

TONY: No. There's no way that she is going to be the governor of Puerto Rico. People today are celebrating but a part two of this is already starting. There's already one [inaudible] going and she's not even appointed yet. There's no way. It actually is a revolution. That was just the first phase and now people are ready to continue. It's leading to a complete transformation. I can see it -- the energy is so active right now. There's no way this is going to die down.

MW: Tony thanks so much for speaking with me today and good luck.

TONY: Thank you.

CH: Tony was one of the people behind a historic protest this week against Puerto Rican Governor Ricardo Rossello. We're not identifying him to protect the safety of his family. He was in San Juan. Mr. Rossello announced his resignation last night. For more on this story go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Ian Blackford

CH: Boris Johnson's mission is to deliver Brexit by the end of October. Which he says will make the UK "the greatest place on Earth." That is one of several lofty promises the new British Prime Minister made today in the House of Commons on his first full day on the job. He was voted leader of the Conservative Party earlier this week. Ian Blackford does not share Mr. Johnson's optimism regarding Brexit and he certainly doesn't feel positive about Mr. Johnson. Here's some of what the Scottish MP said in Parliament today.

SOUNDCLIP

IAN BLACKFORD: Thank you Mr. Speaker and of course I should welcome the prime minister to his place. The last prime minister of the United Kingdom. You know Mr. Speaker it is often said the prime minister lives in a parallel universe. Well my goodness that's been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. This morning in fact it looked as if he's about to launch himself into outer space. Mr. Speaker there are questions to be asked us to the mandate -- the Prime Minister has for the office he now occupies. He has been appointed not by this house, not by the people, but by the Tory party. What have they done! It horrifies me Mr. Speaker that the new prime minister finds his position through such an undemocratic process. Indeed Mr. Speaker it was the prime minister himself who called the system 'a gigantic fraud' when Gordon Brown was parachuted into office just like he was 20 years ago. Mr. Speaker Scotland did not vote for Brexit. We did not vote for no deal and we most certainly did not vote for this prime minister.

CH: That was Scottish National Party MP Ian Blackford speaking in British parliament earlier today.

[Music]

Touch Study

Guest: Keven Walgamott

CH: In 2002, Keven Walgamott was in an accident. He ended up losing part of his left arm. And over the years, the Utah man would occasionally use a prosthetic -- but found it too bulky to wear regularly. Then more recently Mr. Walgamott participated in a study that has changed his perspective on what prosthetics can do. Researchers implanted electrodes into the nerves in his arm that allowed him to control a special robotic arm with his thoughts. And when he touched something with that arm, signals were sent back to his brain giving him a sense of touch. The results of this study were published yesterday in the journal Science Robotics. We reached Keven Walgamott in West Valley City, Utah.

MW: Mr. Walgamott I'm hoping you can take me back to the day when your wife came into the lab. Tell me what were you able to do that you hadn't been able to do since you lost your arm in 2002.

KEVEN WALGAMOTT: I had -- several, over 14 months -- I had a lot of opportunities to have her come but this was only the second time she came to see what was going on. She came in while I was performing some of the tests. They asked if there was anything that I would like to do. And a couple of things I would like to do is grasp my wife's hand with both hands instead of just one. She had been so supportive of me throughout the years since the accident and she was very encouraging. So after I was done with the study the tests there they go ahead encouraged me to shake hands with her so I extended my left hand, she came and extended hers and we were able to feel each other with the left hand for the first time in 13 years and it was just a marvelous wonderful experience.

MW: And this was your left robotic hand, right?

KW: That was. Yes.

MW: Wow. And how is it different from the sensation that you normally feel with your right hand?

KW: Great question. They send little electrical impulses or charges through the sensors so what I feel is I guess the easiest way to explain it is little electrical shocks as I touch something briefly it sends pulses of energy or shock into their and as I squeeze harder it gets more intense and so different variations of the intensity of the electricity as I move my fingers around and as I touch things.

MW: And is it in real time or is it delayed at all?

KW: It's real time.

MW: What other things have you been able to do that you weren't before the experiment?

KW: They asked me what I would like to do as I began to think there were things that I had forgotten [chuckles] how nice it would be to have two hands and one of the things was as simple as a pillow case -- putting on a pillow case on a pillow is a somewhat tedious with one hand. So that was one of the things that I wanted to do and I was able to do that very easily with both hands. And then I was able to pick up grapes and transfer from one place to another without squeezing them and without breaking an egg as well. So those are some of the things that I was able to accomplish that were fun to do. I'd forgotten how well two hands were.

MW: Yeah. Things most of us take for granted. So if I understood you correctly you would pick up eggs with your robotic handing you and you would break them -- you didn't have any way to kind of measure the pressure, is that right?

KW: With my normal prosthetic hand -- yes. I have a mild electric hand -- and just kind of a little robotic hand just the index finger and a finger next to it and a thumb clamp together but there's no way for me to tell how hard I'm squeezing something. So with my normal one it certainly would not be something that I would try because I know I would break it but with this LUKE arm or this LUKE hand, I was able to pick up eggs, pick up grapes, and because I was able to feel I knew how hard I was squeezing and so I was able to pick them up and transfer them without breaking them. And that was pretty cool.

MW: Now I understand you deal with phantom pain. Can you tell me what that feels like?

KW: I think it's different for different amputees but for me it's burning that I get. And I still have my hand even though it's not there anymore. I still feel it all the fingers and the palm and the back of the hand and so that burning is on the back of the hand all down the fingers and on my palm. And it's there constantly while I'm awake and sometimes it wakes me up at night that it never goes away.

MW: So how did the robotic hand help you deal with that pain? Did you feel it the same way?

KW: No -- I had the implants into my nerves and so when we went into the lab and we worked it they would stimulate the nerves as I touch things and as I moved and my phantom pain almost went to zero during the test -- during the lab times that we were there. And then it was wonderful not to have that phantom pain that was there all the time and it lasted for about an hour after each of the lab experiments that we had there. So it definitely helped.

MW: Was it tough sort of leaving the lab and going back to your real life where you didn't have your robotic hand and the pain eventually returned?

KW: I went frequently -- initially about four or five days a week and then it went down to three. So I always expected not to take it home with me. It was nice having the experience that I did with it and especially the reaction in phantom pain but I wasn't as connected with it I guess oher than that I knew I would be leaving it and so it didn't bother me. Although there were times where it felt like -- it reminded me of what I miss.

MW: Now do you have a sense of if and when you'll be able to have a touching robotic hand full-time?

KW: I went into the study and the previous ones that I've been involved in anticipating that I would not be a candidate for one of these in the future. However I came out of this study a lot more hopeful because of so many advancements that have been made. I couldn't guess but I would think within my lifetime I would probably see one of these that would be available at a price that we could afford. And saw I am much more hopeful now than I used to be.

MW: Well Mr. Walgamott I hope that happens in your lifetime.

KW: Well I do too. That would be wonderful.

MW: Thanks very much for speaking with us today.

KW: You are certainly welcome. Thank you.

CH: That was Kevin Walgamott in West Valley City, Utah. He worked with researchers at the University of Utah developing new prosthetic technology. And if you'd like to see a video of Mr. Walgamott shaking hands with his wife, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

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Robert DeWreede

CH: Police in BC are anxious to speak to Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky. The teens are wanted in connection with the recent deaths of tourists Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese in BC. And yesterday, they were charged with second degree murder in the death of another man -- Vancouver botanist Leonard Dyck. Mr. Dyck's body was found Friday about two kilometres south of a burning vehicle which was later identified as belonging to the wanted teenagers. In a statement Mr. Dyck's family says he was a loving father and husband whose death has created unthinkable grief. Robert DeWreede is a professor emeritus at the University of British Columbia. He knew and worked with Mr. Dyck for some 20 years. He spoke with CBC Vancouver this morning about his friend and colleague.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT DEWREEDE: Leonard was a very focused individual on his research. I first met him as an undergraduate student and he got interested in some problems dealing with some seaweeds life history -- problems with seaweeds. And then he decided to pursue that as a master's student. And then finally he did a PhD with me -- related problems and then he continued to do that work after he finished his PhD. So he's been very deeply focused on a particular problem. So that's one thing I think I would like people to know is that he's a very focused, interested individual in terms of the kind of research study he was in wanting to do. He was a person that he liked to think really deeply about some what I would consider to be a rather esoteric biological questions but I guess the point to stress is he thought deeply about a number of these kinds of questions that were not necessarily related to his research. He was a very good teacher. He liked interacting with his students. And (he) enjoyed having a good chat in his office about almost any topic. And then he also was deeply involved with his family. He was spending a lot of time with his children -- sometimes going off on camping trips and so on. He often would tell me about the trips that they'd taken together. He really enjoyed that. And I guess one of these trips resulted -- when he went off on his own camping up north in just the last few weeks -- which resulted in his death.

CH: Robert DeWreede is a professor emeritus in the Department of Botany at the University of British Columbia. He was Leonard Dyck's academic supervisor and colleague. Mr. Dyck's body was discovered on Friday. And yesterday, two missing teenagers were charged with second-degree murder in his death.

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In-N-Out Burger

CH: Stonehenge. The statues on Easter Island. A perfectly intact In-N-Out burger on a street in Queens, New York City. Three enduring mysteries. One of which has just been solved. It's the burger one. On Sunday, the New York Post ran an article with the headline "Mysterious untouched In-N-Out burger found lying on Queens Street." It quoted a man named Lincoln Boehm who had discovered the burger. He said, "It genuinely shook me to my core." That's because there are no In-N-Out burger joints in New York City -- or the state. It's a West Coast chain with most locations in California. So for Lincoln Boehm -- who is originally from Santa Monica -- it was a shock. A mystery never to be solved. Until three days later. After his story went public Mr. Boehm got a message from a 16-year-old student named Helen Vivas. She wrote, "Hi. This is actually my burger." In an article for Vice, Lincoln Boehm lays out the chain of events in exhaustive detail. Ms. Vivas took a red-eye flight from San Diego where she was visiting friends. She had a bag of In-N-Out burgers with her. Ate one on the flight, landed at JFK, took a train to Queens, got off the train to see a bus waiting and made a run for it. That is when the greasy bag ripped. Ms. Vivas reflexively grabbed the falling burgers and got on the bus. But one had been left behind -- a single, pristine In-N-Out burger sitting in its wrapper on a New York street 4600 kilometres from the restaurant where it had been made -- where it remained until it was discovered by a shocked Lincoln Boehm. At long last, a convincing and satisfying conclusion to a challenging "whobunit."

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July 25, 2019 Episode Transcript

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