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The AIH Transcript for September 19, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Lucy van Oldenbarneveld

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

LUCY VAN OLDENBARNEVELD: Good evening. I'm Lucy van Oldenbarneveld. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

LVO: Tonight...

CO: What's wrong with these pictures. Photos and video of Justin Trudeau in brownface and blackface throw the election campaign into chaos -- but their repercussions extend beyond the insular world of politics.

LVO: A look of pain. NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh wants Mr. Trudeau to explain to Canadians who've endured racism why they should re-elect a leader who darkened his skin for an Arabian Nights Gala.

CO: The grift that kept on giving. A Toronto man is sentenced to nine years after scamming investors including our guest who tells us how he was duped out of 100,000 dollars.

LVO: When Irish eyes aren't smiling. A former diplomat says British PM Boris Johnson has no apparent plan to keep the Irish border open after Brexit which could have catastrophic consequences.

CO: Eternal combustion engine. On the 50th anniversary of "Easy Rider" I'll speak with a man who ordered us to get our motors runnin' and who's had the pedal to the metal ever since: John Kay of Steppenwolf.

LVO: And the jete set. For the first time in the history of Canada's National Ballet School the graduating class has more male dancers than female -- and one of the graduates shares his experience of going through the spin cycle. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that introduces a team player who's a teen plie-er.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Jagmeet Singh says Trudeau's blackface is part of a 'pattern of behaviour'

Blackface: Jagmeet Singh

Guest: Jagmeet Singh

LVO: Justin Trudeau just can't remember. The Liberal leader was in Winnipeg doing his best to act like it was just another campaign stop. But his party's plans have been derailed by images showing a younger Mr. Trudeau made up in brownface and blackface. Reporters asked Justin Trudeau how many similar revelations Canadians should now expect.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I think it is obvious that this is something that was deeply regrettable. I am wary of being definitive about this because the recent pictures that came out I had not remembered. And I think the question is, how can you not remember that? The fact is I didn't understand how hurtful this is to people who live with discrimination every single day. I have always acknowledged that I come from a place of privilege but I now need to acknowledge that that comes with a massive blind spot. I have dedicated my leadership and my service to Canada to try and counter intolerance and racism everywhere I can. But this has been a -- personally -- a moment where I've had to reflect on the fact that wanting to do good and wanting to do better simply isn't good enough and you need to take responsibility for mistakes that hurt people who thought I was an ally -- who hopefully many of them still consider me an ally even though this was a terrible mistake.

LVO: That was Liberal leader Justin Trudeau speaking this afternoon in Winnipeg. Jagmeet Singh is the leader of the New Democratic Party. We reached him as he waited to take off on a plane in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Singh is Justin Trudeau a racist?

JAGMEET SINGH: That's going to be a question that I think Canadians might have to answer. But I don't think it's actually the most important question. Whether he is or is not, doesn't change the fact that his actions have had a really serious impact on Canadians. It's meant that people who have gone through trauma and pain based on the colour of their skin or where they are, are going to have to live with that pain right now. And that's more important.

CO: I ask you that though because you yourself posed the question: who is Justin Trudeau? Who is the real Trudeau? And that's something that you say is now at the centre of what we need to know.

JS: It's what Canadians are asking themselves because they see a certain Mr. Trudeau in public who present himself as very open to diversity and someone who says that Indigenous communities are important and the most important relationship. But then in another life he mocks people because of the colour of their skin. And then in a private fundraiser behind closed doors when activists demand justice for the poison waters in Grassy Narrows he mocks them and makes fun of them. This pattern of behavior shows someone who humiliates people who are suffering, and that's something that Canadians are legitimately asking questions about.

CO: And you're referring to that fundraiser where there was a protest from Indigenous people and he said thank you for your donation as a joke.

JS: As a joke to people who were demanding justice for poison water. And I have been to Grassy Narrows and I've seen people shaking as a result of the minamata disease and mercury poisoning disease and there's nothing to joke about. And the fact that in the midst of a fundraiser surrounded by supporters instead of saying you know there's more work to be done, he thought it was appropriate to make fun of those activists demanding justice. And he was cheered on by those who attended the fundraiser. That to me is a really stark picture of who Mr. Trudeau is in private -- behind the closed doors.

CO: Well these are racist gestures you're saying -- racist moments. But you won't go so far as to say that Mr. Trudeau is a racist.

JS: Well I think it's the wrong question to ask because I don't think it matters if he is or is not labeled that. The focus hasn't been on people. He himself talked about he was angry at himself but didn't talk about the pain that people might be going through. Mr. Scheer did much of the same. This is a moment to think about what people are going through, what it means to be someone that grows up being told that they are less valuable or less worthy just because of the colour of their skin. I just met with a group of young people and I asked them what it felt and they said they feel afraid. They say if the Prime Minister can make fun of us for who we are what's this stop other people from making fun of us. They're afraid. And I think that's who we have to focus on.

CO: And what about his apology? Is that enough? Because this is what Mr. Scheer has said about his own party members or candidates -- he said well they yes it's okay if they've made racist or homophobic remarks -- xenophobic remarks -- in the past as long as they have apologized for them and owned up to them. Has Mr. Trudeau made amends?

JS: Well I think that the apology is not one that I can say if it's appropriate or not -- it is the Canadians that are impacted that are going to make that decision. The problem is that it's not an isolated incident. He doesn't understand that people go through racism and maybe that's why instead of actually expunging the records of marginalized black and Indigenous and people of colour who face criminal sanctions because of minor possession offenses of marijuana continue to have barriers in employment and travel and education -- he decides instead to a pardon which won't actually help those folks out.

CO: But it seems that no party in this election has a monopoly on this kind of racism. I mean Mr. Scheer is dealing with it. Mr. Trudeau is dealing with it. Within the NDP we interviewed Jonathan Richardson -- the former NDP executive for the Atlantic Canada. He's concerned that you wearing a turban might affect the outcome of the NDP's election results. So everywhere you turn in this election campaign we're seeing the ugly face of racism. What do you make of that?

JS: There's a history of it. It's not something that happened yesterday. We know the history of Canada beginning with achievement of the first people of this land was based on racism. It was oppression including residential schools and genocide. It continued to the Komagata Maru -- and the Chinese head tax and Japanese internment. Really this is a moment for us to reflect on the collective history of Canada and how we can realize that there is a history of systemic racism and how that's hurt people. And if we're ready to commit to doing something different.

CO: And on that subject -- on the issue of Bill-21 in Quebec where many people are saying who are dealing with this -- with this discrimination in the workplace issue that they now face because they wear overt symbols of their religion and now can't get jobs or can't get promoted, they're looking to the federal government to say you must intervene, you must protect our charter rights as Canadian citizens in Quebec. You have said that you will not intervene in the Bill-21 issue, it's a matter of Quebec. So can't you address this very issue which you're saying by protecting the charter -- by saying you will intervene, that you will protect the charter rights of Quebecers?

JS: I know there is a court challenge going on right now and I don't want to in any way interfere with that court challenge it's a very important challenge and I support the right to challenge it. I'm trying to do my best as a turban and bearded candidate running for prime minister going to go Quebec and showing Quebecers that this type of law is divisive. It works against the very fundamental of our society which is finding ways to come together and to find ways that we see the commonalities that we have that are far more than our differences.

CO: We saw what you've done -- how far you have gone to try to address this by giving us this video, this ad, with you taking off your turban. How difficult has it been for you to face -- personally -- to face racism in this campaign?

JS: Well I mean I faced challenges absolutely throughout my life and now is no different. But I think about all the people that I've met in my life that continue to face challenges. Maybe I understand a little bit what that's like. I'm hoping that I can use my experience to help build a Canada where people aren't in any way impeded from succeeding and achieving their best because of who they are.

CO: All right I hope we can talk to you again and during this election campaign -- hear a bit more about your platform. But I can hear that flight's about to take off. So Mr. Singh thank you.

JS: Thanks so much.

LVO: Jagmeet Singh is the leader of the NDP. We reached him earlier today as he waited to take off on a plane.

[Music]

Blackface: Omar Alghabra

Guest: Omar Alghabra

LVO: Omar Alghabra is a Liberal candidate, a long-time MP, and a former president of the Canadian Arab Federation. He's also one of the people Justin Trudeau called last night before the story broke. We reached Mr. Alghabra earlier today in Mississauga, Ontario.

CO: Mr. Alghabra what did Justin Trudeau say to you last night as this story was rolling out?

OMAR ALGHABRA: Carol he called me while I was canvassing and told me he wanted to prepare me for a story that's coming out and he explained to me what the story is. And he offered his sincere and deep apology and he admitted that this was unacceptable and that it is hurtful for many people. He told me that he is going to go out publicly and accept it and tackle it head on and offer unreserved apology and told me that he's going to have to do a lot of work to address this issue.

CO: At what point did you actually see the image or images from this Arabian Nights Gala?

OA: It was about an hour after I spoke with the prime minister.

CO: What were your emotions? How did you feel when you saw those pictures?

OA: I have to admit that my heart sank and I was quite...you know it was a mix of emotions. So it's hard to just use one adjective. I was disappointed. I was hurt. I was anxious. I was also keen on hearing the prime minister address this issue. So it was a mix of emotions.

CO: You say you were hurt -- and I know you have been subject to a lot of racism even as a Member of Parliament. I've watched that. I mean when you see the Prime Minister -- someone you know, someone you've trusted, you put your faith in -- who is making a game out of the awful reality of people who have faced this kinds of racism and discrimination. That's got to hurt.

OA: As I said it's painful. And if you're asking me Carol to rationalize what Mr. Trudeau has done 20 years ago I am not able to do so. But if you're asking me if I have faith in Justin Trudeau over the last few years and what he has done for people not just like me -- I'm a man of privilege who has been elected and I sit at the table of power, there are many many millions of Canadians who are working day in and day out either because they are on the receiving end of racism or because they are championing and combating racism and hate have been supportive of Mr. Trudeau's policy and words over the last years. And frankly not just here in Canada but people around the world look to Mr. Trudeau and have been looking towards Mr. Trudeau as a voice of thoughtful sanity, of a voice of championing rights of minorities, rights of individuals. And they've seen him in action. And I've seen him also in private -- not just behind microphones, not just in front of cameras -- I've seen him in private meetings, in private room, I've seen him actually correct me on my language and the errors that I may make in promoting inaccurate stereotypes. So I'm not able to rationalize what happened 20 years ago.

CO: Actually I'm asking you, how did it hurt you?

OA: Well you know seeing people -- as you said I'm on the receiving end of occasional racist attack and stereotyping. And blackface has a long history of being used by people who want to mock or minimize or make lesser people of colour. So to see somebody who I know has been a champion, who I know has been an advocate for inclusive Canada, for tolerance had done that 20 years ago...it was disappointing to me.

CO: But you know it's not just the only incident. Now there are two others when he was younger but again doing blackface, dressing up -- using ethnicity as a costume. And then today just now in a press conference this afternoon he says that there may have been other incidents but he doesn't remember. What does that say to you?

OA: Carol I'll repeat, I can't explain that Justin Trudeau. I can't. I've been working with Justin Trudeau since 2012 when he ran for leadership. I'm not just talking about words that he has repeated. I'm talking about action against Islamophobia, against anti-Semitism, against anti-LGBT community, against the Indigenous community, against anti-black racism -- he has spoken out and he's implemented policies and he has been a champion. So I cannot explain Justin Trudeau and what he did 20 years ago because I'm disappointed in that Justin Trudeau.

CO: He was 29-years-old. He was a teacher. He was a leader. He came from a family of privilege. He traveled the world with the prime minister knowing what people go through seeing what discrimination was. He not only just as a person of privilege but as a really exceptional personal privilege, should have known better at 29, don't you think?

OA: I think so. And I think he acknowledges that.

CO: Well here's the problem though is that during this campaign your party -- the Liberals -- have rolled out a steady stream of exposes of the Scheer Conservatives -- the candidates for the Conservatives showing that they had made racist, homophobic, Islamophobic remarks -- saying that they shouldn't be running. So here's the problem -- Mr. Scheer says as long as they all apologize for being racist, homophobic, or Islamophobic it's okay. You're saying it's okay for Mr. Trudeau -- he can apologize and move on?

OA: No Carol that's not what I'm saying. I am saying Mr. Trudeau has proven through his words and his actions not only as a prime minister but as a leader of the Liberal Party and as a member of parliament what he stands for. Look I would prefer not to use this moment for political strategy because it is an important moment for our country to come and have this conversation about racism. But you alluded to Mr. Scheer. Mr. Scheer has made troubling and offensive remarks about what he thinks of LGBT community members and their right to access equal marriage. But we have not seen his evolution. We have not seen him demonstrate that he has learned from his past. So I think that is highly important. What Mr. Trudeau has done with his responsibility as a member of parliament, as a leader the Liberal Party, and as a prime minister has offered words of comfort and policies of comfort to millions of Canadians who look up to their leaders to stand in their corner when they are being marginalized, to stand in their corner when they are being discriminated against. He has been in their corner for years. This didn't start just because these images have shown up. He's been a champion for them for many years.

CO: Mr. Alghabra I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

OA: Thank you Carol.

LVO: Omar Alghabra is a Liberal candidate. We reached him in Mississauga, Ontario. Andrew Scheer says the images of Mr. Trudeau are evidence that he isn't fit to govern. But at a campaign stop in Saint Hyacinthe, Quebec, Global's Mike Le Couter asked the Conservative leader to reconcile that with his support for some of the Conservatives' own candidates.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: What do you say to people of colour who call you hypocritical for standing by candidates who have aligned themselves in the past with people like Faith Goldy?

ANDREW SCHEER: Well as I said if we want to talk about a candidate who would never pass a Conservative vetting process. It's the Liberal candidate for Papineau who has lied to Canadians, who interfered in a criminal prosecution, who broke ethics laws twice, who brought a convicted terrorist along to a state function, and now once again has lied to Canadians. That individual would never pass a Conservative vetting process and I believe that if you're running for prime minister -- the highest office in this land -- you need to be held to a higher standard.

REPORTER: I appreciate that answer but it wasn't my question whatsoever though. People are calling you hypocritical for standing by a candidate who align themselves with somebody who is racist. These are people of colour who are asking how you're claiming moral high ground now.

ANDREW SCHEER: I clearly would say that it's Justin Trudeau who's hypocritical on these issues and when he can't even tell the truth about it I think Canadians see him for what he really is.

LVO: That was Conservative leader Andrew Scheer speaking to reporters in Saint-Hyacinthe, Quebec.

[Music]

Ballet boys

Guest: Benjamin Alexander

LVO: When Benjamin Alexander was growing up, his passion for dance wasn't shared by most of the other boys in his Chatham, Ontario school. Now as he enters Grade 12, he's in a very different world. Come June, Benjamin will be one of 16 boys to graduate from Canada's National Ballet School. For the first time in the school's 60 year history, he and his fellow male grads will outnumber their 11 female classmates. We reached Benjamin Alexander after class in Toronto.

CO: Ben what does it mean to you that there will now be more male dancers than female dancers graduating from the ballet school for the first time?

BENJAMIN ALEXANDER: You know it's a really exciting milestone. It really exemplifies the shift and the breaking of a certain stigma that there's been that male ballet dancers are not as valued per say or that they're not as prevalent. And I think our class demonstrating that men dancing is just as important as females dancing. I think it's really exciting.

CO: When you talk about this shift -- how much has changed in the ballet world for male dancers since you first started?

BA: I think there's definitely been a shift in people's interest in the art form. I think it's become a lot more accessible due to social media and YouTube and things where you can watch videos of inspiring male dancers past and present that really help to bring popularity to male dancing. People are now realizing that it takes so much to become a male ballet dancer, so much determination, and so much strength of character as other sports do. And I think that's being realized now and I think guys my age are also realizing that and they're rolling with it. They're applying for dance classes just as one would apply for a hockey lesson or a baseball lesson. And that's really exciting for me.

CO: There was a time when that wasn't acceptable for boys -- that they would have been...they would have got teased, right?

BA: Yes exactly. I was fortunate enough to grow up with a group of friends who didn't tease me. Of course I felt a bit lonely doing ballet. I felt when I looked around in my ballet class and all I saw was girls I definitely felt kind of alone in my dream.

CO: Sounds a bit like the story of Billy Elliot.

BA: Yes. Similar. [Laughs]

CO: What inspired you? When did you first get the idea that you wanted to be a ballet dancer?

BA: My sister was definitely a big source of inspiration. I would watch her from the sidelines and she'd be so determined and so dedicated to the art form just as I was. And then once I began dancing I think I remember watching a video of Baryshnikov and I was quite young -- how virtuosic his jumps were. And he looked like he was light as a feather. I just wanted to move like that, and I wanted to be like that, and I want to perform in front of thousands of people and be applauded and live that lifestyle.

CO: Wow I can imagine looking at Baryshnikov -- not only the light as a feather, but muscles...just powerful.

BA: Exactly. So much strength.

CO: And so when did you first start? Because you were in Chatham I believe, right? Where did you go to get started?

BA: I began at Florence Able's dance studio which is a woman who's in her 70s now and she's actually taught another man who went through the National Ballet School named David Nixon who now is the artistic director of the Northern Ballet in northern England. And she nurtured my talent from the beginning since I was four and she constantly believed in me. And I'm so lucky to have her.

CO: Did you have other boys to share your passion with?

BA: Not in Chatham. And not at Florence -- as I was the only boy. And I think that was a huge part of finding the ballet school and finding this group of guys that share common interests and I could be with, discuss our dream, discuss our passions.

CO: And tell us about that group of guys.

BA: They are the most supportive group of men that I've ever encountered and we're constantly pushing each other to new limits I think. And that's really exciting because when you have so many men, so many guys, all working towards a singular goal there tends to be a competition but a helpful one. One that makes us all work harder. And for men now it's becoming increasingly more competitive and we can all share with each other our kind of breakthroughs. And although it's competitive, we're very supportive of one another and I know each and every one of us wants the best career for everyone.

CO: Now what does that do though? Because we know in most ballet there are a lot of rules -- minor and major for girls and not so many...there is usually one or two or supportive roles but there's not as many for boys. There's not many ballets that are going to take in this many male dancers so does that limit the possibilities going forward?

BA: You know I think sometimes it's quite the contrary. I think applying for professional ballet companies I think women have a very hard time because it's a lot more competitive for them even still. My group of guys is very exceptional. And ballet is definitely increasing in popularity for guys but it's still not at a level at which it's equal I think. But it is true I think it is competitive within casting in certain role opportunities because of how ballets are created.

CO: How would you encourage other boys to leave home, go to Toronto, get into ballet? What would you say to them?

BA: You know I think it's definitely hard, it's definitely a challenge especially for some people depending on your situation or your predicament. But if you want to move and you want to share stories through body language, it's quite magical. And just to move an audience and to move them to tears and to roaring applause...I would highly recommend it to any young boy who's thinking of taking that leap.

CO: [Laughs] Literally taking that leap.

BA: [Laughs] Literally taking that leap.

CO: Well Ben I wish you every success as you go forward. It's going to be really interesting to watch you and thank you for speaking with us.

BA: Thank you so much.

LVO: Benjamin Alexander is one of 16 young men who will be graduating from Canada's National Ballet School at the end of the 2019-2020 school year. It's the first time in the school's history that more boys than girls make up the school's graduating class. We reached Mr. Alexander in Toronto.

[Music]

Part 2: Nowack victim

Nowack victim

Guest: Davud Weenen

LVO: To the outside world, Steven Nowack was a lot of things: a music promoter, a magnate, and a highly successful currency trader. But now the Toronto man has a new title: convicted fraudster. He's been sentenced to nine years in prison after running a Ponzi scheme that scammed a dozen people out of more than 15 million dollars. And Mr. Nowack's victims didn't just learn of his fate at this week's sentencing -- they also learned the lengths he has gone to try to avoid prison time. David Weenen is a building contractor who has defrauded out of 100,000 dollars by Mr. Nowack. We reached Mr. Weenen in Toronto.

CO: David how did it feel to be in court this week and to hear the judge sentence Steven Nowack to nine years in prison?

DAVID WEENEN: I was very happy with the sentence. Yeah it's been a long time. Six years of him dodging and evading. And I am very happy with the sentence.

CO: I understand you are asking for the champagne glasses.

DW: [Laughs] What? You don't like champagne?

CO: You wanted to celebrate I guess.

DW: I did want to celebrate. The judge was not in his courtroom when I made that statement. I was just trying to lighten things up. It was tense in the room at the time.

CO: Why was it tense?

DW: Well there were a lot of people in that room who all wanted some justice and wanted to make sure that he was going to be punished appropriately. And you know I think everybody -- or most of the people -- in the courtroom were aware that you know most of these sentences get two-three years. And you know given the volumes of money and the number of people that he had defrauded you know that certainly wouldn't have been a fair and just sentence in my opinion.

CO: Now I understand that he defrauded people of about 20 million dollars in this Ponzi scheme.

DW: Boy if he'd only done something for a living with honesty would be that rich anyway. Smart guy.

CO: You gave him 100,000 dollars to invest. Is that right?

DW: That's correct.

CO: How did he convince you to hand over all that money?

DW: You know he told me that he had a foolproof method that was tried, tested, and shrewd -- making money was just on the side. He was more proud of the fact that he had developed a system that was guaranteed to make money. And you know my friends -- the associates that I met him through -- they were all receiving cheques on a regular basis. And yeah I fell for it.

CO: Did you make any money through him?

DW: No I did not.

CO: He claimed to have developed, quote, "a proprietary methodology" and he would play on dichotomies in the market created by different ways of thinking among Asian, European, and American investors. Did that seem weird to you?

DW: Well I suppose if I tried to explain you know electrical code or building code to him that would sound strange. So I really just tuned out. I just wanted to make sure that my money was parked nicely and there may be a return -- a positive return -- on this thing. I don't understand the markets at all.

CO: I think a lot of people share that with you. But did it ever seem too good to be true to you?

DW: Well it did and I was pretty clear with Steven when he was taking my money I said look Steven if this is anything but 100 percent legitimate then just let me know and I'll just go away and we'll shake hands and that'll be that. But you know if it's not Steven I promise you I am going to ruin your life. And he looked at me with all the chutzpah in the world and he said David don't worry it's the start of a really great profitable relationship between the two of us.

CO: Do you feel betrayed?

DW: Absolutely. You know what? I feel stupid. I feel stupid that I fell for this guy.

CO: It was one of the things in the sentencing this week Judge Robert Goldstein said that fraud is a crime of emotional violence, that you've been fooled -- even tricked -- you've been duped. And is that how you felt?

DW: Absolutely. I was ashamed that I'd been so stupid and naive and all the rest of it. You know it's not something you want to talk about with friends or family. It's you know "hey, do anything stupid this week?".

CO: The judge also pointed out how much was done by Mr. Nowack to delay this over these six years. He said that Nowack at different times he breached his bail conditions by contacting a victim. He claimed the Crown was in cahoots with victims. He had a letter of support from Desmond Tutu. He wrote to the Prime Minister and the Justice Minister asking that they intervene. I mean it went on and on, didn't it?

DW: It really did. And again, individually we were all in the dark about this. I showed up to give my testimony, I showed up to hear the sentencing. Any questions that I had and that the other victims had, the police and the Crown would not -- could not, didn't want to jeopardize the case by telling us anything. So I only just found out about the Desmond Tutu letter -- a letter I'm sure he would write to anybody because it was pretty vague. It just said you know sorry to hear you're incarcerated -- hope it all works out.

CO: Now the judge -- not just the nine years sentence, the judge said that he has to pay 14 and a half million dollars in restitution to victims. Do you think you'll ever see any of that money?

DW: Well depends on who he can talk into defrauding again I guess. I don't know how else he's going...I don't know how he's going to make that kind of money back. You know it's gone.

CO: David I'm so sorry all this happened to you. I really do appreciate you telling us this story.

DW: Quite all right.

CO: All right. Take care.

DW: Bye.

LVO: David Weenen is a building contractor who was scammed out of 100,000 dollars by convicted fraudster Steven Nowack. We reached Mr. Weenen in Toronto.

[Music]

Elena Poniatowska

LVO: When 43 male teacher trainees vanished in Mexico's Guerrero state five years ago, their families and parents were left with questions. They still don't have answers. Their sons had been traveling home from the nearby town of Iguala when they clashed with police. And after that clash, 43 of those students disappeared. Now Mexico's government has announced it's opening up a new investigation into the incident citing serious concerns about the investigation conducted while Enrique Pena Nieto was president. Back in September of 2015 -- a year after the students vanished -- we spoke to Elena Poniatowska. She's one of Mexico's most celebrated writers and journalists and the author of a book on the country's 1968 Tlatelolco massacre in which hundreds of civilians were killed. In that interview she told Carol why the Iguala kidnapping made her ashamed to be Mexican.

SOUNDCLIP

ELENA PONIATOWSKA: The effect was of great sadness and also of great -- I remember being very mad because it's really not fair that in our country young people are killed because of their colour, because of their poverty, and because they have nothing -- because they own absolutely nothing.

CO: You said and you've repeated that this incident of the students it made you ashamed to be Mexican. What did you mean by that?

ELENA PONIATOWSKA: I think it will make ashamed anyone who has any sense of what life means. Many journalists like me are full of indignation -- really very sad about this. We do still have in Mexico a capacity for indignation and even I think the government also has permitted the same indignation because now in the Paseo de la reforma which is the most important avenue in Mexico where all the marches are, there is a number in red done by students that says [speaking in Spanish]. And I think this is a thing that the government has to recognize.

CO: And not just recognize, what responsibility and how high up in government...they have to accept responsibility for what happened to those students?

ELENA PONIATOWSKA: So I think the government's bet is for oblivion that everyone will forget and that this will die. I mean something else will happen and public opinion will not really continue to fight or to mention this -- which is usually what happens.

LVO: Mexican writer and journalist Elena Poniatowska speaking with Carol on As It Happens in September of 2015. Mexicans have not forgotten about the disappearance of those 43 students. Yesterday the country's Attorney General announced a new investigation into their apparent deaths. And Mexico's new president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador says the incident remains an open wound.

[Music]

Brexit: Ireland

Guest: Jennifer Cassidy

LVO: If Boris Johnson has a plan to prevent a hard border in Ireland, it's hard to tell what it is. This week exasperated European leaders are accusing the British prime minister of having no concrete proposals and suggesting he may be playing political games. Yesterday the EU's Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said, quote, "Some three years after the Brexit referendum we should not be pretending to negotiate." And time is of the essence. The Brexit deadline is October 31st. But European leaders have now given Mr. Johnson just two weeks to come up with an alternative to the Irish backstop. Jennifer Cassidy is a former Irish diplomat who now teaches politics at Oxford University. We reached her in Oxford.

CO: Ms. Cassidy how confident are you that Boris Johnson has a plan?

JENNIFER CASSIDY: I am 99 percent confident that he does not have a plan. And my 1 percent optimism simply remains there regarding a faith in humanity or a hope that there will be a compromise or the backstop will be kept for the peace and the future of my home country Ireland. But regarding everything we've seen and even regarding his political career to date and the statements the EU has made today it is clear that there is no detail, no structure, no strategy. To say time is ticking as is an understatement. We are here -- we are kind at arrival date.

CO: This week has been interesting to say the least. The meetings that Boris Johnson was having with European leaders, the lunch meeting in Luxembourg on Monday. It seems Mr. Johnson was told that one of his proposals would still require checks at the Irish border and that he seemed surprised by that. A diplomat or some sources say it seemed to have helped the penny drop and it appeared to have been a bit of a reality check. What do you make of that?

JC: Well it's shocking in the sense -- it's shocking but not surprising. Let's say from also my reading of the sources and the documents given, he wasn't aware that there was quite so many border checks. There is 530 points where you can cross the border. And I do not think he has -- even when he was foreign minister he didn't visit the border. He didn't realize the complexity that for example a grandfather was showing that he had his grandchild's swing was actually technically on what is the border. My second reaction regarding the penny dropping -- he is an enigma and I continuously repeat this point and I think it is worth noting that Boris Johnson has made a career on knowing what to say, when to say it, who to say to, and in which room to say it. He's not a hard liner by any means. He doesn't have a consistent stance on anything so it wouldn't surprise me if this news or his views started changing let's say which is worrying for both ways.

CO: The issue we're talking about principally here is what's called the Irish backstop and that is to in order to keep the island of Ireland able to flow with people as you say the swing on one side and the other a border. It's very much like a Canada-U.S. border. And there's a proposal for a way to keep that flexible if Brexit is to happen and the Great Britain leaves. Now he says he has alternatives, he's looking at a number of proposals, there are plans by the alternative arrangements commission. Is there an alternative to the backstop that's not acceptable?

JC: The issue is we've see no alternative arrangements. That's the whole issue. So the backstop itself as you rightly pointed out and conceptualised -- it is there simply because an agreement couldn't be reached in time for the UK to leave the EU. And so the backstop simply said look we will keep everything as it is and you can leave the EU. But if alternative arrangements come up within the timeframe we are more than happy if we all agree to sign off on these. But it is up to you. You have given us absolutely nothing and that's what we're also seeing today. You know they have been quite stern the EU in their language saying I cannot look you directly in the eyes Juncker said to Boris Johnson and say progress has been made -- when not one single aspect of detail has been spoken to me.

CO: And also said in another case that we can't pretend they were negotiating or not. But you mentioned how Boris Johnson is an enigma. Is it possible that this is a negotiating strategy, that he keeps them flummoxed and confused? It can be very effective possibly just to keep everybody in that state of of wondering what's going to happen next -- that maybe it's a tactic.

JC: It's a tactic but unfortunately if that's his tactic, the motivation that I can see for him using that tactic is that he ultimately believes that the EU -- and I really don't like using this phrase because regarding blinking who blinks first or you know a game of chicken I hate using that phrase because I think it really diminishes the complexity and the ramifications for Ireland -- the peace in Ireland you know in general. But to use the phrase if he is trying to confuse people and he ultimately thinks EU are going to blink and sell Ireland out and the backstop will be removed. But that is not what is going to happen and he's going to get quite a shock. Having worked for the EU myself as a diplomat and now lecturing on it for a number of years and been highly involved in the Brexit debacle let's say for the last three years I have a number of critiques of the EU for a number of reasons but I have never in all those years seen them speak with such a consistent unwavering and steadfast voice as I have on the no backtop, no deal. And there is no renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement. Boris Johnson is going to be in for quite a shock and he's certainly playing with fire so to speak.

CO: But he's The Incredible Hulk -- the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets.

JC: Yeah -- or The Incredible Sulk as it was trending in the UK when he didn't come out on the podium after the meeting with Luxembourg Prime Minister.

CO: We have to leave it there Ms. Cassidy. We'll be following the story. I really appreciate speaking with you tonight.

JC: I appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much.

LVO: Jennifer Cassidy is a former Irish diplomat who now teaches politics at Oxford University. She was an Oxford.

[Music]

Yak Farmer

LVO: He was already a yak farmer. Now he's become a yak wrangler. In July, Jean-Guy Duchesne's animals made a great escape from his farm in St. Elzear, Quebec. All 60 of them. It takes a while to corral five dozen yaks. Three months later he's brought most of them home. But four are still at large. Yesterday Mr. Duchesne spoke with Alison Brunette host of "Breakaway." Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: One day we woke up and I just looked at the pasture and I saw nothing so I just decide to go and investigate. And I discover a whole bunch of a picket fence broken -- the wire was all twisted. So they just escaped by that way.

ALISON BRUNETTE: So what was your reaction? I mean you wake up and they're gone.

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Your heartbeat is just accelerating. Believe me.

ALISON BRUNETTE: Well so how far away had they manage to get before you found them and tracked them down?

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: About 25 kilometres. But the further we went, it's 45.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And were they still all together?

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: No. They split. This is a problem. If they were all together that would be easier. Because if one follow, the other will follow. But instead they just split in five or six little groups. And we decided to go at one after the other.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And how did you do that? I mean here you are thinking you're going to have sort of a normal day of being a yak farmer and then now you don't have any.

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Now you're a wrangler.

ALISON BRUNETTE: Yeah. So what was that like for you?

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: It's quite amazing because each case was different from the other. So one time you can just lasso them, and the other and you corral them, the other you just bait them. So it's never the same. So each time we had 60 percent chance to get them.

ALISON BRUNETTE: I'm quite surprised -- the four that are left now have been gone for more than two months.

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Yes.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And it's no problem for them to just survive in the wilderness like that?

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Oh there's no problem here. There's a lot of pasture and lots of wood so there is a field, a green field, there's a lot of water so there really is no problem. Let's say that they're belly is full.

ALISON BRUNETTE: They're having a good time.

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Oh yes.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And has this ever happened before? Have yaks ever left your property before?

JEAN-GUY DUCHESNE: Never in 17 years. This is a really bad luck.

LVO: That's Alison Brunette host of "Breakaway" in Quebec speaking with Jean-Guy Duchesne -- a yak farmer who's still searching for four hairy members of his herd.

[Music]

Part 3: Steppenwolf frontman John Kay reflects on 50 years of Born To Be Wild

Bahamas: Dorian help

Guest: Angela Johnson

LVO: After Hurricane Dorian destroyed parts of the Bahamas more than two weeks ago Justin and Angela Johnson wanted to help. And they were in a position to do so. They run a helicopter company in Florida. During one of their flights over Little Abaco Island last week a journalist who was with them pointed to a pile of debris on the ground. At first the couple didn't think much of it but later Justin Johnson returned and found people there. We reached Angela Johnson in Destin, Florida.

CO: Angela first of all can you tell us what this pile of debris you saw -- what did it look like from the air?

ANGELA JOHNSON: Exactly that a pile of debris. It almost looked like if you were driving out in the middle of a country and somebody just kind of had their own piles of trash out there you know old cars and things just accumulated on their property.

CO: Now this is on Little Abaco Island which is one of the worst hit -- the islands there were just quite devastated by Hurricane Dorian. And what was it that your husband...why did he go back? Why did he think that maybe he had to go return and investigate that site?

AJ: Honestly I believe it was just a God thing. Honestly I don't know. You know he's usually pretty set in his ways. But when we got back he had mentioned it. He said I didn't see anybody but I guess I could just do a check in the morning. And we plan to both go ourselves. But then you know he was flying up a team of medical people that were doing a makeshift center up in Fox Town and so he ran them up and he thought it would be a good time with them to stop. And the guy just went out found out basically that they hadn't had anybody drop in, bring supplies, that they were desperate in need for it, and that there were no medical needs. And so Justin went ahead and flew his guys up dropped them off, came back and got me, ran out of the helicopter to me and said I'm going to get fueled up, fill up the aircraft with everything that a town could possibly be, there are people living in that community.

CO: Wow. So what did he tell you that he saw when he returned to that site that looked like just a pile of debris?

AJ: Nothing. I mean he literally said what I just told you and you don't even give it a second thought because you're out there and you just know that you don't know and anything is possible. There's nothing out of the ordinary, unexpected, at that point. Once we got in the helicopter I started asking questions and he said not until we hit the ground and sat there for a second did people start actually coming out. And he said I saw people -- I couldn't even tell you where they came from but it looked like maybe crawling out of a couple...there was a minivan and somebody came out of the minivan from behind rubble piles. And he said I don't know where these people are living or how they're living. And so we got down and same thing when we landed we got on the ground. It took a little bit for them to kind of come out and come up to the aircraft. They were really apprehensive but once they got there they were so just appreciative. They did not ever ask for anything. We had to volunteer you know 'hey we would like to bring you supplies, what do you need? And they were just so modest 'you know oh water and food would be great.' And you know we said, do you have tarps? Do you need tents? And of course they said no we don't have them. And so we just brought an initial load of a ton of food and water. There was one older lady that reached down and grabbed a box of the Vienna sausages and just wrapped her arms around it like it was a child. And at that point we knew if she is hugging Vienna sausages they are hungry.

CO: Taking a week and a half after Hurricane Dorian -- so how were they living? How had they been surviving up to that point?

AJ: I have no idea. The only guess that I have is you know once people knew that the hurricane was coming I can imagine they probably put their food stores you know just like you and I if we were preparing for a storm we would go get a bunch of water, we would you know maybe fill up your bathtub -- you do whatever you can. So my assumption would be they must have been living on whatever reserves they had -- somehow somewhere spread across whatever they were finding.

CO: Do you have any idea why they didn't come out and signal to you when the helicopter flew over and tell you they were there?

AJ: I mean we obviously have a hunch that there were groups of Haitians from our understanding the government is frowning upon the Haitians being there because they're illegals. There was a lady with probably a 9 month old baby maybe. And I said would anybody like to be taken out? Would you like me to take the mother with the baby? And you know anybody that needs to go and the man pulled everybody together and they did a circle conversation and it was about a minute or two minute conversation and he came back and said nobody wants to go we all want to stay together.

CO: We were hearing as we covered the aftermath of Hurricane Dorian just days and hours that afterwards we'd heard the there were these areas on the Abaco Islands where Haitian refugees were living in the worst conditions and in the worst places -- very low lying areas. We were trying to find out what had happened to them and so this gives us some indication of what has happened to some of them -- this group of 30 or 40. Do you suspect there are more people living as they were living in the aftermath of Dorian?

AJ: At this point I would say you know you're this many days out I think everybody has been you know that's going to be discovered has been discovered. But that being said the mud area -- I'm not sure if you're familiar but the mud area right in Marsh Harbor was the worst hit. And it's not that the storms maybe were the hardest but that's where the largest group of Haitians people were living. And the problem with the Haitian communities is because they didn't have the money and things they were building their homes out of you know maybe plywood and scrap metal. And the problem of not finding people is they're buried under that rubble.

CO: What was it like to see the Bahamas -- does this go on for miles and miles?

AJ: Oh my goodness the whole area from Marsh Harbor -- I mean even south and west of Marsh Harbor but all the way up to the tip it is just destruction. And the thing that is really indescribable is when you're not typically around boats you know you normally see maybe tornadoes and destruction of houses but out there are so many boats and it's just such a sight to see the boats that are normally in the water and marinas and they're in the front of homes. I mean most of the entire land is littered with boats and I don't mean small boats, we mean yachts, large beautiful boats. And oh my goodness. Yeah. It was just everywhere you turned.

CO: Well Angela I'm so glad you were there for those people and I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

AJ: Absolutely. Thank you so much Carol.

LVO: Angela Johnson runs a helicopter company in Destin, Florida. That's where we reached her.

[Music]

Friends

LVO: They were there for us. At least on Thursday nights. This weekend marks the 20th anniversary of the premiere of "Friends" -- the popular TV sitcom that ran for 10 seasons and launched the careers of, well, mostly, Jennifer Aniston. And as the fateful day approaches fans have been reconnecting with six lead actors who spent so much time in an unrealistically huge apartment. But chances are, most won't go as far as Steve Misiura did. Back in 2009 the English actor staged a fundraiser in which he watched every single episode of "Friends" nonstop -- all 83 hours and 40 minutes worth. When he was done, he answered the pressing question of As It Happens guest host Robert Harris: why?

SOUNDCLIP

STEVE MISIURA: First of all I really like the show. And it's one of the few kind of long running series I could probably sit there and watch frankly for hours and not go crazy. Although I came pretty close. [Laughs] And I guess secondly just the sheer volume of them -- it ran for like 10 years. So you know you've got a lot of material to watch.

ROBERT HARRIS: You kept a web-log of your experience. And I've got a few of them here. One of the saddest ones is: 41 hours in. First signs of real struggle. Heartburn, dermatitis on hands, mad twitches, and heavy eyes. I'd like to go to bed but have another 50 hours to watch.

STEVE MISIURA: I actually remember writing that -- it was so hideous. It was a point where I was thinking I don't know if I can do this. I think that was kind of one of the lower points. I think there were a couple of I think there's another point later maybe around 80 hours or something like that where I have written you know something that I just can't even bother to talk anymore.

ROBERT HARRIS: You know sleep deprivation -- it's a torture technique that people use.

STEVE MISIURA: My doctor actually told me that I shouldn't do it. He said the risks of kind of heart attack. You know there's a real risk of psychosis.

ROBERT HARRIS: Wow. And how about now? If I say the words Matthew Perry to you does your brain start to quiver? Like do you ever want to see another episode of this show? I mean you've seen them all. Do you ever want to see them again? Are you going to throw away that DVD set you got?

STEVE MISIURA: No -- I am not going to throw away the DVD set. I could probably watch them again.

ROBERT HARRIS: Oh you can't watch them again.

STEVE MISIURA: I was flicking through television last night and I watched it for about five minutes and the only reason that I didn't carry on watching was because I just knew what was going to happen next -- and it was just really fresh. But I think I could watch it again.

LVO: From 2009 that's As It Happens guest host Robert Harris speaking with Steve Misiura after he watched all 10 seasons of "Friends" nonstop -- that's more than 83 hours of episodes.

[Music]

Easy Rider 50th: Steppenwolf's John Kay

Guest: John Kay

LVO: If you've ever had a classic-rock radio station on for more than 25 minutes you know this song.

SOUNDCLIP

[Born To Be Wild]

LVO: And if you've seen the 1969 classic "Easy Rider" you're probably picturing Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper tearing up the road on their choppers right now. "Born To Be Wild" was a hit for Steppenwolf in 1968. But a year later when it became part of the soundtrack to "Easy Rider" it took on a whole new life in the public's imagination and it has remained there for five decades. To mark the 50th anniversary of the movie a screening with a live performance of the soundtrack is taking place in New York at Radio City tomorrow night. To talk about the event, the song, and the film -- we reached Steppenwolf frontman John Kay in Santa Barbara, California.

CO: John if we can go back 50 years to the release of this film Easy Rider that well quite literally blew people's minds. Do you remember what it was like for you when you first saw this movie?

JOHN KAY: Oh I very definitely do because our management office had received a call from Dennis or Peter saying you know we're making this film and we want to use your music and would you come and see it please -- you know private screening thing. And initially I thought well wait a minute -- you know it's about motorcycles. The last thing that I know Peter did was something called The Wild Angels and that was a bit of a turkey. So you know what's this going to be like. Anyway we went and can't remember who else was there at the same time -- might have been Hendrix and members of the band and others. And we watched in a private screening room and we arrived a couple of moments late. The film was already running. The scene where Phil Spector is doing the cocaine transaction and the pusher is being played -- walked in right about that time and watch the rest of the film of course. And then the ending came and there was just complete silence in the room.

CO: For people who haven't seen the movie we won't tell how it ends but it is a very disturbing end to this film. We just played a bit of "Born To Be Wild" in the introduction which is your song which became really the anthem for the movie Easy Rider and really for that time in the 1960s -- it spoke to so much of counter-culture. What inspired you to create that song?

JK: What inspired me to some extent was the fact that Canadian born Dennis McCrohan later known as Dennis Edmonton was a member of The Sparrows -- Toronto based band. And he then later after the demise of The Sparrows in Los Angeles we had migrated there. He changed his name to Mars Bonfire and it was he who wrote Born To Be Wild. And since his brother was the drummer in the newly formed Steppenwolf band, Mars brought this cassette tape of a couple of tunes he had written to one of our rehearsals. And we started kicking that song around and liked the results. It was one of 11 tracks of our first album -- Steppenwolf album. And nobody really had a clue because there had already been another song released that one did fine on both coasts but it didn't build anywhere. So what's the next single? And there was back and forth between management, label, and artist and finally compromise was reached that we would put a record out where neither side -- back in these days of single recordings -- neither side would be designated to radio as the quote a-side and let radio decide if they would play anything at all. Well within short order you know 8 out of 10 that were playing either side were playing "Born To Be Wild." And then it took off. That was the summer of 68. Now our album at that point was already in the top five nationally before Born To Be Wild came out because of then new so-called underground FM radio stations that were playing our album -- the entire album, both sides. But Born To Be Wild without question was the sort of see the rocket launch. The inclusion of that song as well as the pusher in the film Easy Rider saw to it that our music was being introduced to other parts of the world because of the success of the film being shown there, places where the band had yet to visit and play. And of course the film and subsequently Steppenwolf and Born To Be Wild were sort of adopted by the biker community. And of course these last 50 years we have played biker events in places you would not believe -- in northern Brazil, and Finland, in Venice, Italy of all places. And on and on and Budapest.

CO: Can you describe for us the scene. What is happening in the movie when Born To Be Wild is actually playing?

JK: Well it's right after the characters played by Peter and Dennis have sold the Peruvian marching powder that they brought to this drug dealer who pulls up in a Rolls Royce and while that's going on the push is being played but very shortly the conclusion of that scene you see Dennis and Peter on their choppers -- motorcycles -- heading on out on the highway and of course here comes Born To Be Wild...get your motor runnin', head out on the highway. And what made the Easy Rider very different from other films, it was not the first film to use our music but it was the typical use meaning oh yeah you hear the song starting and then the scene continues with people talking and whatever else. In Easy Rider the music stood by itself. There was no dialogue overlapping with it. The music and the lyrics were joined at the hip to what you saw with your eyes in terms of the scene that the music accompanied. And that was very different from anything anybody had done. And you know so whether it was Jimi Hendrix's "If 6 Was 9" or Dylan's "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" -- you know the music had no interference, no competition with any other audio components. It was for the eyes and ears without having to deal with a third ingredient such as dialogue.

CO: We're talking also about 1969 when the film was released but so much going on in the United States at that time. That's represented in this movie, isn't it? I mean what they call the hippie culture, counterculture, experiments with drugs. And in fact in the movie people are using real drugs -- the marijuana scene where you mentioned Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda who are the key characters but Jack Nicholson who really got his start here, they're all sitting around a bonfire smoking real weed and having quite an extraordinary conversation. These things really well played into the politics of the time, didn't they?

JK: It absolutely did. Many years ago at the Dallas Film Festival I was invited because Easy Rider -- you know they had found 20 minutes of unused footage or whatever. And at the film festival they were going to screen it again. And they asked me to join Laszlo Kovacs who was the cinematographer of Easy Rider. And he and I talked and we both discovered that he and I had both escaped communism. I from East Germany and he from Hungary. So we had lots in common and then we got to talk around the making of Easy Rider and he said yeah we were stoned all the time shooting. So it wasn't just the characters in the film even you know it was sort of a communal lifestyle sharing undertaking but the results were nevertheless pretty intriguing.

CO: Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

JK: Not necessarily in that order...[laughter]

CO: But definitely in the movie all three. And another song of yours "the pusher" which you mentioned which is part of the opening sequence of Easy Rider which deals with drugs but you didn't support this drug culture, did you?

JK: The song was written by Hoyt Axton who I saw play regularly at the Troubadour in Los Angeles when I was there during the year of late summer 64 until early spring 65. I was working at the Troubadour because I was hanging around there so much that Doug Weston -- the owner -- said hey I need somebody in the box office you know. But the real benefit was I got to observe and learn from the professionals because I had my guitar and I was learning my craft and these were the guys who had already made it to some level. Well Hoyt was one of those. And "the pusher" was a song that always brought down the house. When I migrated hitchhiking back to Toronto where I wound up playing in the coffeehouse before joining The Sparrows there, it was "the pusher" that I brought with me as a song that almost no one on the East Coast knew. And the reason I liked the song aside from its impact was that whereas I was not against what nowadays they would call soft drugs such as marijuana. I was vehemently against any kind of drugs that you inject -- so god damn the pusher man -- you know as the lyrics say I smoked a lot of grass, popped a lot of pills, but I've never touched nothing that my spirit will kill. And the dealer is the guy who sells you the marijuana for a sweet dream but the pusher will ruin your body. So that song and its attitude lyrically was a perfect match with respect to my feelings and opinions about the two different things soft drugs and the hard drugs.

CO: The reason why we are speaking with you is not just that it is the 50th anniversary of Easy Rider but because there is going to be a musical performance in New York using the film and the music itself. So can you tell us what that's going to be about?

JK: Sure. Peter Fonda had contacted me. He said Live Nation wants to put on a special 50th anniversary screening of Easy Rider at Radio City Music Hall in New York City. Now whenever there was a song in the soundtrack of the film instead of hearing that song coming from the film through the theater P.A. system in lieu of that there would be on the stage a house band put together by T Bone Burnett -- well respected and known -- and this band would accompany Roger McGuinn when his songs come up in the timeline of the film and you know the several other songs I would perform with the house band. There was talk about well what about you know the other artists such as the band or Jimi Hendrix or The fraternity man and so on. Well they said they would see about having some guest artists you know singers, performers, perform those songs so basically the whole thing was a bit -- I was sort of thinking this through: how's that going to work? And somebody from Live Nation said well years ago at the Hollywood Bowl they screened Star Wars and there was a complete philharmonic orchestra in the pit and it was playing the original soundtrack of Star Wars that was composed by John Williams who will conduct that orchestra playing his compositions live while you see the film. And apparently that event which was highly successful was sort of the trigger for the idea of doing a similar kind of combination of screening and live music for this Easy Rider screening.

CO: I imagine a lot of people will -- for nostalgic reasons -- want to see this. But I wonder just at the time in 1969 when the film came out it was this road movie through United States dealing with the backdrop of America but also the civil liberties movement, Vietnam, the drug culture, counterculture. Do you think this whole story of Easy Rider will resonate with people in 2019?

JK: Well it's an interesting question because there are indicators that the film has a very active life out there. So the film is something that is a time piece to some extent but also I think for a lot of young people who were not born when this thing came out it shows something that -- it kind of reminds me of when 20-30 years ago even when we would perform you know one of our live shows and after the show there would be these relatively young people many of them still teenagers dressed in bell bottom jeans and tie dyed shirts saying I wasn't born in the 60s but my God I wish I wouldn't have missed them. In other words they had come across this music and some of the films from that era. And it was almost like a longing for a time that seemed to be much more hopeful and more looking forward and you know all of that. And I think the film in spite of its darker aspects, you know particularly the ending, it kind of gave the impression that the wide open spaces, freedom of the individual, and I believe that that speaks to people irrespective of age or where they are.

CO: I think it's is going to attract a lot of attention when you put this show on John and I wish you success with it.

JK: You know it should be a special evening and whereas all of us participants be it Roger or you know we wanted to do it with Peter and I was totally unaware that you know Peter was struggling with lung cancer but since he is not able to introduce his baby we will do it for Peter.

CO: I wish you every success with this show John. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

JK: Thank you.

LVO: John Kay is a Canadian singer, guitarist, and songwriter best known as the frontman. Steppenwolf. He was in Santa Barbara California.

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September 19, 2019 Episode Transcript

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