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The AIH Transcript for July 18, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: First, a shocking attack. Now, the shocking suspect. A Toronto police officer is charged in the brutal assault of a 19-year-old man who was left seriously injured up being beaten by with a metal pipe.

JD: Three children dead, three mothers charged. An Alberta children’s’ advocate is calling on the province to protect kids when they're taken out of care and returned to the family home.

HM: A different kind of escapism. A new video game gives players a first person view of the refugee crisis. Tonight, the designer explains how he collaborated with one Syrian migrant to make it a virtual reality.

JD: Drawing a line in the sandals. The makers of Birkenstocks may have put their foot in it by selling a pair that looks pretty much the same as yours, but it costs 800 bucks.

HM: Render under the Cheeser the things that are the Cheeser’s. When their prize winning cheddars are stolen from an agricultural show, British cheese makers issue a reward to anyone it would help them clear the dairy air.

JD: And… strapping on the sous vide bag. Our guest blows off steam by preparing a meal in an enormously weird way. And tonight, he will tell us how he cooked an entire lamb in a hot tub. Also, hopefully why he cooked an entire lamb in a hot tub? As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that knows it's a lean meat but, in this case, it's a little tubby.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Toronto officer charged, Bury Me, My Love, hot tub lamb

Toronto officer charged

Guest: Leisa Lewis

JD: Dafonte Miller will likely lose his eye. He has a broken nose, jaw and wrist. The 19-year-old was allegedly beaten with a steel pipe back in December, after being confronted and chased by two men in Whitby, Ontario. Today, a Toronto police officer has been charged in connection with that attack, with aggravated assault, assault with a weapon and public mischief. Constable Michael Theriault was off-duty at the time of the alleged assault. He is, at present, suspended with pay. Leisa Lewis is Dafonte Miller's mother. We reached her in Whitby. And a warning: this interview contains some graphic descriptions of violence.

HM: Ms. Lewis, first of all, how is your son doing now physically?

LEISA LEWIS: Physically, he is still in a lot of pain. He took a lot of beating in the head and in the back. He's going to need to physio, so he’s hanging in there.

HM: And what about his eye? One of his eyes was severely injured.

LL: Yes, the left eye was ruptured. It was split into four, all the content from the eye was out. He's going to have it removed. We're looking at get an artificial eye for him for the left eye.

HM: What has he told you about what happens to him that night on December 28^th, in Whitby?

LL: He was just walking with friends and two gentlemen approached him asking him questions about what they're doing in the neighborhood? They just got into little conversation, they walked away and then they got chased by the two gentlemen.

HM: What happened after that?

LL: He got chased, along with his two friends, he got separated from his friends and that's when he got multiple blows to the head. And the damage eye, which is the left eye. He had bones broken in his face, multiple bones in his jaw, his nose, his wrist was broken. It's a lot.

HM: And the officer, Constable Theriault, is accused of using a weapon in doing this?

LL: Yeah, it was a metal pipe.

HM: A metal pipe?

LL: Um hm.

HM: Did anyone come to your son's aid?

LL: No, he didn't get any and that's the sad part about everything is my son actually got charged for assault with weapon times two against the officer and his brother. And we had to spend months going back and forth to the court. He never got any kind of help from the police. He just got charged and put through going to court to defend himself.

HM: What happened to those charges?

LL: They were withdrawn on May 5th.

HM: So you had to go to court for some time before the charges were withdrawn?

LL: Yes, yes, yes. We had to get a lawyer, we had to go back and forth to court and really fight for him because nobody else was trying to help. He was just very devastated and we just couldn't understand how a police officer could come on the scene and see him in the condition that he was in. His left eye was actually out of the socket, hanging down his face and no one thought to do any proper investigation. They just, on the spot, charged him.

HM: Can you tell us what it was like for you when you first saw Defonte after the assault?

LL: It was so painful. I was so heartbroken seeing my child like that. The first time I saw him was him coming out of surgery, and I just wanted to break down. I couldn't contain myself. I had to separate myself from him for a little bit before I actually went in the room. And they couldn’t wake him after because of all the hits that he got. He was trying so hard trying to wake up and it broke my heart to see like that. And at the time I was just so confused, I didn't know what was going on. I was just waiting to find out information about why this happened to him?

HM: What were you told in those early days?

LL: Right away, the nurse wasn’t able to tell me anything, but she showed me the paper from the police officer. I read the paper; it just said that he was in charged. But I wasn't able right away to have a conversation with him because of the medication. But I just couldn't understand what was going on?

HM: Because he was injured and there he was charged?

LL: Right, there he was charged. So I was worried that something else happened. When I spoke to a police officer and I said OK, so he's here lying in the bed, like what's going on? He said OK, well he was charged. I said OK, so did somebody else get injured? He said no. So then I started to feel like so confused, like how is he charged? The two people that he is charged with assaulting do they have any injuries? Do they have any broken bones or any kind of injury? No. So right away, I just felt like something was weird. Something weird was going on.

HM: How did it come about then that the officer was ultimately charged with aggravated assault, assault with a weapon and also with public mischief?

LL: Well, this is a sad part of it. The police didn't do their job. They did not contact the SIU. It was a lawyer along with a family that contacted the SIU to get the invitation going. And that was way past when his charges were dropped. The SIU didn't come on board in April.

HM: The officer was off duty at the time. Was anybody suggesting that that's why the Special Investigations Unit was not brought in?

LL: Honestly, I'm not too clear if that was what they were trying to say, right? But if he was off duty or not, he initially claimed that he was a police officer and that's why he was trying to talk to the guys. So him being off duty or not, it seems to different me.

HM: you've had a lot of time to think about this. Why do you think this officer allegedly beat up your son?

LL: You know, I'm not saying this because I'm trying to be mean. It's a fact that I pictured in my head and if a Caucasian young man was walking into that neighborhood, I can't picture him being beaten down, like I really cannot picture it.

HM: What effect has all of this had on your family?

LL: Oh, it's so painful. My girls are scared all the time. My oldest one is so emotional, like she would cry all the time. It breaks a family when something like this happens. I mean we're so grateful he's alive. But when something that has happens, it doesn’t only happen to one person. It Happens to the whole entire family.

HM: When we started this conversation we were discussing how Defonte is doing physically. How is he doing emotionally?

LL: Emotionally, I think Defonte just feels very lost right now. He's only 19 right now. And he feels so broken, he feels so lost. He feels like this is such an injustice. He didn't deserve this. No one deserves to be beaten down on the street and then get charged on top of it. No one deserves this. I don't mean to keep going back to the charges, but this young man, my son, was beaten real bad. And then, instead of being able to feel safe and coping with his injury, he was feeling so stressed out going to court and going to court. And then the charges were withdrawn and now he's moving on to the other side of the case now. They're looking at more trials and stuff coming up. It's a lot for him to deal with, so we're just trying to support him and to let him know that I'm here to fight for him.

HM: Ms. Lewis, I really appreciate you speaking with us today. Thank you very much.

LL: Thank you and you’re welcome.

HM: Bye bye.

LL: Bye.

JD: We reached Leisa Lewis in Whitby, Ontario. Today, Toronto Police constable Michael Theriault was charged with aggravated assault, assault with a weapon and public mischief, in connection with an attack on Ms. Lewis’s teenaged son, to Defonte Miller.

[Music: Pan flute]

Bury Me, My Love

Guest: Florent Maurin

JD: You are not an astronaut blasting space aliens, or a cartoon character jumping over obstacles. The stakes are much higher because they are based in reality. Five years ago, Florent Maurin quit his job as a journalist. It became a video game designer and he looked for opportunities to tell people stories through that medium. And one day, Mr. Maurin came across the story of a Syrian migrant named Dana. And together, they created a game called “Bury Me, My Love”, which is largely inspired by Dana's journey to Europe. Florent Maurin is the founder of a video game studio called The Pixel Hunt. We reached him in Paris.

HM: Mr. Maurin, explain for us the premise of “Bury Me, My Love”?

FLORENT MAURIN: Well, actually, I have been a journalist for a long time. I've also been a gamer for a long time, and I really wanted to mix both and see how games could be used as a medium to convey news or to say things about the world we live in. And one day, I attended a show where a journalist from Le Monde, Lucie Soullier, was talking about an article she wrote, which was called “The Journey of a Syrian Migrant Through a WhatsApp thread.” And it was really interesting and told the story of how a young Syrian migrant called [Dana S.] kept in touch with her family through a journey from Syria to Europe. And I thought it would be an excellent basis for a video game. So I got in touch with Lucie and told her about my idea. And she agreed that it would be a great project, so she put me in contact with [Dana S.], who lived in Germany then, and she also agreed that he would make a great premise for a video game.

HM: So tell us how we play the game if we were to do this?

FM: So the game is looking just like a chat application, like WhatsApp, and you play as Majd, Majd is Nour’s husband. And he stays in Syria because he has to take care of his family, his mother and his grandfather. But Nour, she has lost every member of her family. So she can't take it anymore and she decides to leave Syria. And the only thing that remains between you and her is your cell phones. So she will keep you aware of what happens to her throughout her journey. And sometimes she will request advice, so you have to make choices. And for instance she will wonder if she should go to Izmir and try to take a boat to Greece? Or maybe go to Istanbul and try to go through land? And she'll ask you what think about that? So you have to give her advice.

HM: And do learn the consequences of what happens as a result of the advice you've given?

FM: Yes, of course. It's an interactive fiction and it's in real time, so if Nour has to do things and she's not available for you, she won't be there. So you'll have to wait exactly as people who are in touch with the refugees or migrants have to wait to hear from them. So that's why we chose a mobile game because we really wanted to give the feeling of someone using a messaging app, such as WhatsApp, to be able to tell a story in real time and really mimic what happens when you're in touch with a migrant who is trying to reach Europe.

HM: Tell us about the name, “Bury Me, My Love”, what does that mean and where does it come from?

FM: I'm really glad you asked that because it's a Syrian phrase. It's used in Syria and in Lebanon and it means something along the lines of take care of yourself, you are not allowed to die before I die. I don't want to hear that you died, not when I'm living. And that's the phrase Dana's mother told her just before she left Syria. And I thought it was really poetic in a way. So we decided to keep this saying and to use it as a title for our game.

HM: Tell me a bit about Dana and the person you've come to know? What of her journey have you actually used in the game and what differs?

FM: Obviously, she told us a lot about that trip. She told us about the smugglers and the very shady places she had to go through. But the most important part is that we really took inspiration from Dana's personality. She’s really special, she's very brave, she's fearless, she's independent and she's very modern also. It's everything that doesn't come to mind when you think about Syrian migrants.

HM: Does the game come to an end? Does the journey end for the person playing it as well?

FM: Yes, actually, there are 19 different endings in the game because our fictional character, Nour, is some kind of medley of every testimony we had to when we got documentation to write the game. So we wanted to give some kind of tribute to all the people we learned about and all the different destinies they had. So you can end up in Italy or in Austria or in France, but you also can give up and stay in Turkey. Of course, there are also sad endings. So we had to put it in the game too, but I hope that for most of it, “Bury Me, My Love” carries a message of hope and I hope people will get it when they play.

HM: I know the game isn't set to be released until September, but I understand some Syrian refugees have had a chance to play the game. What's the reaction you had from them?

FM: It was really pleasant because when I say “we” I talk about Pierre Corbinais, who is the co-author of the story. We wrote this story and we didn't really live the journey, so we were a bit frightened that we couldn't capture the very essence of it. It's funny that Dana, who has lived through the journey, told me that when she played the game and when she made her sister and her brother-in-law play the game, they all went very emotional and they feel very attached to Nour and they loved it.

HM: What about Dana then? How is she doing now?

FM: She took lessons to become a cook and she going to become a cook soon. And she also took German lessons and she just had an exam she had to pass and she passed it and she now has everything in order to be able to work and to become a German citizen and she is very happy about that.

HM: That's wonderful to hear. Listen, it sounds like a fascinating premise for a game. I hope it achieves what you want it to. Thanks for talking to us.

FM: Thank you.

HM: OK, bye bye.

FM: Bye.

JD: That was Florent Maurin, the co-creator of an upcoming video game called “Bury Me, My Love”. We reached Mr. Maurin in Paris. This interview originally included the full name of the refugee Dana S., but As It Happens has since removed her surname to protect her family.

[Music: Piano concerto and bass accompaniment]

Hot tub lamb

Guest: Kristinn Gudmundsson

JD: I have to admit I'm not a big hot top guy, but, for me, a hot tub does mean relax relaxation. I would plunk myself down in there, in my trunks, on my butt, wouldn't think about a lot of things. Drink a bit of chardonnay maybe. But for Kristinn Gudmunsson, a hot tub is not just a place to put one's self at ease. It is also a place to put raw meat. Mr. Gudmunsson has an online cooking show. And recently, he incorporated a hot tub into one of his recipes. We reached him in Eskifjodur, Iceland.

HM: Kristinn, what exactly did you do in this hot tub?

KRISTINN GUDMUNSSON: I sous vide a whole lamb, a 15-kilo lamb.

HM: OK, and for those who aren't familiar with sous vide, what is that?

KG: Sous vide I think means in French “under vacuum”. I might be lying to you, but this is something that I heard. And so you put meat or something else under vacuum. So into a bag and vacuum the bag and then you put it into a hot bath of water.

HM: Now, I can imagine there aren't a lot of instructions out there for sous viding anything in a hot tub. How long does it take to cook?

KG: It was around 17 hours I think, 17 or 18 hours.

HM: Maybe you could take us through the preparations before you put it in the bag? Did you season it? Did you trim it? What did you do to get ready?

KG: I trimmed the belly away because there's no meat there. It's basically just skin, which is hanging there. And then I seasoned it with Nordic thyme that I picked just around the hut where I was making it. And sea salt and garlic and butter. That was it. And then I plastic wrapped it and put it in a bag because the plastic wrap wouldn't keep the water out or the fat in. And then I put it in into the hot tub.

HM: Now, you're supposed to vacuum seal the bag, right? Did you find one big enough for the lamb?

KG: No, that's why I needed to put the plastic seal around it. Yeah, because I didn't find a food-safe bag big enough, so basically the extra layer of bag was a trash bag.

HM: Now, how did you determine the temperature of the hot tub was right for this?

KG: I just had a hand-held therm… this is a word in English that I have always had trouble with.

HM: Well, I'll try to help: thermometer.

KG: Exactly, thank you. Yeah, so I just needed to open the lid of the hot tub and manually figure out the temperature. And then if it was too low or too high, I needed to go into another shed to kind of fiddle with the system, which is basically just the system like in the shower, those kinds of nobs.

HM: OK, did you turn on the jets?

KG: No, we don't have any jets unfortunately because that would have actually been better to have the jets on.

HM: OK, I have to step back. Where the heck did you get the idea to stick it in a hot tub?

KG: Good friends of mine, they were just sitting having dinner, I guess, or something like that. And then they were watching my show. And I just told them that I wanted to have a little party when I came back to Iceland. And then it just got born in their heads and they gave it to me.

HM: And did you do anything in advance to clean the hot tub?

KG: I don't want to answer that question actually.

HM: OK. Once the lamb was removed from the wrapping, did you do anything else before you served it? Did you sear it? Did you just sauce it?

KG: I did sear it with a wheat burner. I don't know if you call it like that in English? It's basically like a flame thrower.

HM: Oh yeah.

KG: Not so exaggerated.

HM: Like a torch?

KG: A torch, yeah.

HM: OK, and did you make a sauce?

KG: I served it with arctic thyme Bearnaise sauce.

HM: Did you make that the hot tub too?

KG: Kind of, yeah. Like I needed to melt the butter somewhere else and then to reheat the sauce, I put it in the hot tub with that there.

HM: What did it all taste like?

KG: I can't really remember. I was so stressed.

HM: I thought you were going to say so drunk.

KG: No, no. Not that. There was more the night before; we got a tiny bit drunk maybe a bit too drunk, even though it wasn't like crazy. It was just like I was too tipsy, let's put it that way. But the day after, I did not have any because I had just I was serving 35 people and I thought I would need my head and I really did. But luckily enough, there was a former TV chef here in Iceland that has helped me a bit through the process of starting this kind of show and he helped me to do the Bearnaise.

HM: And what did all the guests say then about the dish itself? Did they enjoy it?

KG: Yeah, they were they were really happy about it. At least they told me that, I don't know what they're talking about behind my back.

HM: Did anyone refuse to eat it?

KG: No. One, but she's vegetarian.

HM: Oh well.

KG: And also lactose intolerant. So because of the butter, she couldn't eat it anyways.

HM: She was really out of luck.

KG: She was really out of luck because the only thing she could eat was the potatoes.

HM: I've been there. How do your parents feel about the fact that you cooked lamb in their hot tub?

KG: My mother was excited from the first moment. My father was a bit skeptical, but he totally went with it and was excited. He was actually at work when we did it, but he was he was there through Skype.

HM: And have they gotten back in that hot tub? Has anyone refused?

KG: My mother went in the hot tub that night.

HM: In the same water that you sous vide the lamb?

KG: No, we took the water out and cleaned it with 70-degrees hot water in case there was some excess fat. But there was there was none, so it was very OK.

HM: Sounds like you're a lot of fun. It sounds like this was a lot of fun. Thank you for telling us about it.

KG: Thank you for calling.

HM: OK, bye.

KG: Bye.

We reached Kristinn Gudmundsson in Eskifjordur, Iceland.

[Music: Country]

$800 Birkenstocks

JD: As meals go, a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich is pretty much straight-up comfort food. Provided, of course, you're not deathly allergic. It's not flashy, but it does get the job done and for a reasonable price. Now a few years ago, a restaurant called Red's Golden Gourmet in Point Loma, California created an entirely unreasonable PB and J sandwich. Peanut butter and cherry jam, with blueberries and honey and bananas and bacon, served on brioche held together by gold-plated toothpicks. It costs $300 US. Now, the key thing to remember about that sandwich is that it was stupid. Also, that restaurant has since closed, partly, and this is just an inference on my part, because that sandwich was stupid. Now, Birkenstocks are more or less the peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches of the footwear world. Also, not flashy, but comfortable and, given how sturdy they are, pretty reasonably priced. If you're looking for a reliable sandal, it's a fine choice, provided, of course, you're not deathly allergic… from a fashion standpoint. But what if you wanted a pair of Birkenstocks that looked, essentially, exactly like Birkenstocks, but were much, much more expensive? Imagine how frustrating that would be! Well, thankfully Birkenstock has come up with a solution to that nonexistent problem: an “extremely limited-edition” Arizona of the quote “finest Imbued and oiled natural leather in navy blue.” But the key thing is that it has, quote, “sterling silver buckles, which originate from the metalwork studio of jewelry designer Patrick Muff.” They’re 800 U.S. dollars. $800 Birkenstocks! And sterling silver buckles by Patrik Muff or no, they look like Birkenstocks. Now, it is possible to argue that these sandals are stupid. But go ahead, order them if you want. Just keep in mind it might not just be the weather that gives you cold feet.

Part 2: AB child deaths, stolen cheese

AB child deaths

Guest: Del Graff

JD: Del Graff was sounding frustrated today. Frustrated and sad. Mr. Graff is Alberta’s Advocate for Children and Youth. He was delivering a report on three kids who died in separate incidents over the span of just over a year. The children were aged 5, 2 and 1. Each died after being taken out of provincial care and returned to their parents. Mr Graff's says Alberta should be doing more at that critical juncture. But he has made similar recommendations before. We reached Del Graff in Edmonton. And a warning: as you can imagine, some of what Mr. Graff has to say is disturbing.

HM: Mr. Graff, these were three separate deaths. And yet, you decided to issue a single report. Why is that?

DEL GRAFF: When we looked at the circumstances of these three young children, we saw that there were some significant similarities in the situations that they faced, in the circumstances of their lives and in fact in the manner of their deaths.

HM: There were, as we said, three children: a girl of five, a boy of two and a boy of one, who all died within a 13 month period. Can we focus in particular on the two-year-old? Can you tell us how he died?

DG: Well, he died from blunt-force trauma. He suffered a cardiac arrest and had multiple unexplained injuries that included bruising and serious injuries to his brain and his spine.

HM: And this was not the first time he had been injured. In fact, he had been hospitalized for an earlier head injury. Can you tell us about that incident?

DG: There's a lot that we don't know about that, but we are aware that there were other incidents that preceded the incident that resulted in his death.

HM: But he had been hospitalized and his mother also had admitted that she was struggling with parenting, is that right?

DG: Yes. And when he was returned, there were processes in place that were supposed to be supporting him and supporting his mother. And after a period of time the support diminished and he ended up passing away.

HM: So what were the systemic issues in this case then that saw a 2-year-old who'd had a head injury, a mother who said she was struggling and yet ended up back in that mother's care, ultimately dying?

DG: Well, certainly for this 2-year-old, and for the other children that were part of this of this report, we were concerned about the amount of planning that that was involved. We were concerned about the relationship between the events that had taken place with the parents and the kinds of supports that were that were in place. So for example you know each of the parents in these in these circumstances had had difficulties with addiction. And each of them had had completed the addictions treatment program. But then their children were returned to them. And, in that process, you know when that happens and there's lots of change for people who are new to recovery it can add to the stress. And, in fact, create a circumstance of distress. And we're concerned that there's not enough attention applied to those circumstances in each of these three situations.

HM: In fact, in your report, you say that reunifying children with their parents is a new phase of involvement for child welfare authorities. It is not an ending. Can you explain?

DG: Yes, and in many ways child welfare systems tend to think about returning children to their families as an ending of the child welfare involvement. And what we're calling on here — and we've called upon the Alberta government in other reports that we've done — is the need for a continuum of service in child intervention and child welfare. So that services are available at a preventative place as well as intervention and more importantly an aftercare. In other treatment processes or change process, there is an after care phase to ensure that the gains that have been made by families in terms of addressing their challenges and getting the supports in place to live productive lives that those gains are maintained and that they are in fact supported over the long term. We have to stop thinking about child welfare as a system of addressing episodes. So we have one episode of concern, we address that and then we wait till there's a second episode of concern and we address it. Child welfare has to be thought of in more of a continuum base.

HM: You've made similar recommendations in the past, but you've made it clear today you're not satisfied with the provinces response so far. Why haven't they done more?

DG: I'm not sure? You'd have to ask them. We are concerned about the pace of change related to completing the recommendations that we've made.

HM: Have they met any of your previous recommendations?

DG: Oh, certainly they've met some and I wouldn't want to suggest that it's an all-or-nothing kind of circumstance. But they've not made the changes that we had hoped at the levels that we had hoped. And one of the things that we do is every six months, we provide an update as to where we think the government has moved forward on recommendations that we've made. And those are available on our website for the public to see. That is something that we're concerned about and we would like to see greater movement in terms of the government response to recommendations.

HM: Has the government explained why things haven't moved more quickly?

DG: I don't really know how to respond to that? They haven't explained that to me. I don't know that the question has been posed to them quite that way?

HM Now you have been Alberta’s child advocate for six years. When you're looking at the depth of the tragedies in these cases, what effect, what toll does it have not just on you, but on the child welfare system to see these things being repeated again and again?

DG: Well, in some ways it's quite discouraging for everyone involved in. And you know, we meet with workers, we meet with families who are who are impacted directly by these circumstances and it is tragic to hear and to see that people are in such pain as a result of it. I wish that there was a faster movement and I wish that we could, in fact, have systems in place that that would lead to a significant reduction in these kinds of circumstances. But it doesn't seem to be happening that way, at least not at this point in time. Last year, my office received 76 reports of child deaths. That's children who are either involved with the child intervention system when they pass away or are seriously injured, or they have been within the two years preceding the incident. And so you know, when we're talking back kind of numbers, it can get discouraging. We have to keep pushing for government to make changes to better support children and families who are in these circumstances and that's kind of the bottom line in my view.

HM: Mr. Graff, thank you for talking to us.

DG: Thank you.

HM: Bye bye.

DG: Bye now.

JD: Del Graff is Alberta’s Child and Youth Advocate. We reached him in Edmonton.

[Music: Jazz]

From Our Archives: Hersh Wolch obit

JD: If you didn't do it, you would have wanted Hersh Wolch on your side. Mr. Wolch was a Canadian defense lawyer who divided he devoted his life to freeing the wrongly convicted. Over the course of his long career, he helped exonerate high-profile defendants like David Milgaard, who spent 23 years in jail for a murder he didn't commit. Steven Truscott, who was also cleared of murder. And Kyle Unger, who spent 14 years in jail before he was released. On Twitter, one lawyer called Hersh Wolch, quote, “one of the greatest defense lawyers in Canadian history.” Hersh Wolch died of a heart attack on Monday. He was 77-years-old. In 1994, As It Happens host Michael Enright spoke to Hersh Wolch, after Saskatchewan farmer Robert Latimer was sentenced to life in prison for killing his disabled daughter. Here's part of that interview, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

HERSH WOLCH: I'm opposed to any punishment that takes away discretion from a judge. That is you know judges with the safeguard of courts of appeal, should be entrusted to do what is right. And when you tie the judge's hands, you're going to end up with aberrations. And it used to happen for example with drug cases, where importing had a seven year minimum. So some young kid takes a joint across the border, technically, they can get seven years.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: And there's nothing the judge can do about it?

HW: That's right. And that's the problem with any kind of no-discretion type of sentencing or a zero-tolerance type of thinking. You know, you end up with these monstrous results.

ME: So in this case, Mr. Latimer is facing the same sentence that somebody who walks into a gas station and kills the attendant would face?

HW: Well, that's right, in fact, one might say in a way he's fortunate because one could very well argue the way the case went in that it was first degree murder.

ME: That it was planned and premeditated?

HW: Yeah, I mean one could clearly argue that. So the end result is that this very decent fellow would get the same sentence as Clifford Olson.

JD: From archives, that was Michael Enright in conversation with renowned Canadian defense lawyer Hersh Wolch about the sentencing of Robert Latimer. Mr. Latimer was granted full parole in 2010. Hersh Wolch died Monday. He was 77-years-old.

[Music: Cultural]

Stolen cheese

Guest: Rich Clothier

JD: The cheese makers of a Wyke Farms in Somerset, England should be celebrating. But instead of taking home their awards, they’re putting out a reward. Judges at the prestigious Yeovil Show named two of their cheddars champions. But on Saturday, those “Best in Show” blocks vanished from the show altogether, along with the prize certificates. Rich Clothier helps run Wyke Farms. We reached him in the town of Bruton, Somerset.

HM: Rich Clothier, first of all, congratulations on these two wins.

RICH CLOTHEIR: Thank you very much. It's a big honor for the team at Wyke to have won not just the champion cheese, but also the reserve champion as well. So we were also really chuffed to win those

HM: Yeah, but that's diminished now, right? Where's the cheese?

RC: Well, unfortunately, no one really knows where the cheese is because it disappeared somewhere between Saturday evening and early Sunday morning. And the thief, obviously, came in at night and evaded the security and took two big blocks of cheese with them. The team are really disappointed because he or she took the certificates with them as well. So it was a real disappointment for us.

HM: Yeah, where exactly were they when this happened?

RC: Well, they were in the in the judging arena of the tents. Now, the show is about 15-miles from the village of cheddar, where we make the cheese. And then it's a cheddar cheese show, so there was about 100 or so cheddars from the region all in the show. But ours was right in the middle on the champions podium, a bit like you know the formula one podium with the supreme champion and the reserve champion below it. And during the night, the thief stole both the big blocks of cheese and ran off with him with the certificates as well.

HM: Was there any security at the site?

RC: Yeah, there was security. There's lots of you know valuable equipment and it's quite a big show, so it's well-managed. And so it was slightly surprising that someone has been able to walk off with a cheese. You know, these are not small. They're the size of a suitcase that you can board a plane with, you know? One of those sort of size suitcases. They’re big; you couldn't put it in a handbag or up your jumper anything like that. You’d have to carry them on your shoulder.

HM: You would be presumably pretty conspicuous carrying a giant block of cheese?

RC: I think you'd look quite strange walking down the high street with a big, 20-kilo block of cheese on your shoulder, yeah.

HM: Before we talk more about the caper itself. Tell me about this cheese because to win this championship, these two must be pretty special? Can you tell me about the flavors and what’s involved in making them?

RC: The family have been making cheese here in Somerset for hundreds of years. The cheese is named after my grandmother Ivy, who was the first one to write down the recipe hundreds of years ago. And the recipe had been handed down through the generations. And we are actually export some of them to Canada as well and the U.S. and France. They've become really popular around the world because they've got what we call a complex flavor profile, a bit like a fine wine. Where you have some sweet notes, you have of some savory notes, you may have a hint of acidity there as well and also some nuttiness and creaminess and they all build up in your mouth. We're actually exporting to 160 countries now around the world. That’s the Ivy vintage cheddar, which is named after my gran. And strangely, my gran has never left Somerset never traveled on a plane. So the thought that people would know about her cheese around the world would see blow her mind away. It's such a special vintage cheddar, it really is. I graded some of these myself you know before they went into the show as well and they really were fantastic cheese. And that's why some of the rumors associated with the cheese being stolen and the fact the certificates were stolen with them. You know there's a rumor that the cheese might have been taken out of the country and sold to someone who is you know cheese aficionado or something on the continent, or in another country. And you know where they might have only been worth 500 pounds to us, you know to someone like that — like a very, very rare wine — they could be worth thousands of pounds because they're like a masterpiece that can't be replicated.

HM: Is it possible then they could have been stolen to order?

RC: Possibly, I mean you know we've had all sorts of rumors ranging from you know stolen for order to go to export. And I've heard you know stories about wine manufacturers that have had similar things. Or even you know stories about competitors. But I don't really believe the competitive thing because the world of cheese, we're all a pretty friendly bunch and it's just not something any of my fellow cheese makers would do.

HM: What's going to happen now? I mean is Interpol looking for this cheese?

RC: The police are investigating and looking for the cheeses and you know they're looking for video evidence to see where they've gone? We've asked them to look and keep an eye on the ports because, obviously, two big blocks of cheese in a car is quite easy to spot. And we just have to see if they ever turn up again. And, to be honest, I'd just like whoever took them to return the certificates because, obviously, they’re of huge sentimental value to the family. And you know if they've already eaten the cheese, hopefully they'll return the certificates to us because it’s a huge accolade for you know the team of cheese makers here in Somerset to win.

HM: Now, you've mentioned that your family has made cheese for hundreds of years. Has anyone ever stolen any of your cheeses in the past?

RC: Yeah, one of my other relatives had a cheese stolen back in 1780, in a local village called Shepton Mallet. But luckily, that's the sort of last time and you know we've been quite lucky I suppose if crime only happens every 300 year in Somerset.

HM: Was that one recovered?

RC: Yeah, that one was recovered actually. And when the person who stole it tried to sell it on someone else, that was when they got found out. So maybe this time with the certificate if we generate enough publicity then maybe when someone gets offered a cheese with some certificates then they might be suspicious and turn up and claim the reward.

HM: Well, I hope our listeners will keep their eyes open, their nose and palates, all those things I suppose.

RC: Yes.

HM: All right, well good luck getting it back and congratulations again. It's a bit bittersweet I suppose, but at least you know you won.

RC: Yes, thank you. Really nice to speak with you.

HM: Nice to talk to you too. Bye Bye.

RC: Bye.

JD: Rich Clothier is the managing director of Wyke Farms, which is offering a 500 pound reward for information on its two stolen champion cheese. We reached him in Bruton, Somerset, England.

[Music: Jazz]

Mini update: Aladdin

[Music: Jazz]

Heimlich

JD: Karen Heimlich went to Victoria General Hospital in British Columbia for what turned out to be a broken foot. But while she was waiting for help, she wound up helping someone else. Ms. Heimlich spoke to CBC Radio's “All Points West”, about her heroic hospital visit.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN HEIMLICH: Well, when you're waiting for a C.T. scan, if you're mobile enough and sitting in a chair in the waiting room there are people that have C.T. scans transported down on the gurney — on the beds. And once they've had them, they will put them outside in the hallway and wait for a porter to come along and take them back. So there was a person waiting outside of the hallway and I could see in the mirror that his wife was there too. I started to hear her say to her husband, we'll just call him Dave, and say you know Dave, you're not breathing. Dave, Dave, Dave. Breathe, breathe, breathe. And this went on for a bit and then she started to really cry. She says he's gone and I looked in the mirror and she kind of went away to look for help and she wasn't sure whether she should leave him or not? She came she came back with the C.T. technologist and he said I'm going to go get help because he wasn't breathing. And then somebody else came around the corner. I think she was the receptionist from the x-ray and asked what was going on. And the wife said he's not breathing. And she said I'm going away to get help. And at that point she was left alone in the hallway again and I thought this is crazy because if he's not breathing we're just wasting time. So I just got up from my wheelchair and hopped out to the hallway and said to the woman do you know CPR? And she said no. I said I can do chest compressions until somebody else gets here. So she nodded her head. And he didn't look like he was breathing. He looked catatonic. I started chest compressions and all, all of a sudden, he started blinking. And I said to her Look, he's blinking. He's OK. He hasn't gone. So I just kept doing chest compressions until a nurse arrived. She got on top of the gurney and gave him one more hard push and he just heaved and came out of it. And they had the crash cart there and everything. So I just went back to the C.T. waiting room.

JD: from “All Points West”, that was Jason D’souza in conversation with Karen Heimlich yesterday.

[Music: Folk]

From Our Archives: Austen bills

JD: The Bank of England has revealed a brand-new banknote in honor of Jane Austen, a ten pound note that features a portrait and a quote. It's a celebration that she would likely find pretty amusing. Just as she would probably have been amused by our interview with an artist by the name of Graham Short. see back in December, Helen spoke with Mr. short about a project in which he had taken four five pound notes and done a little something special with them.

SOUNDCLIP

GRAHM SHORT: They were issued on the 13th of September by the Bank of England. And in the middle of the new notes they've got a transparent section and I thought I’ll have a go at engraving on there. So I decided to put a portrait of Jane Austen, the writer, and then thought I’ll go round Britain and spend them in the shops. So that's what I did.

HM: What did you spend them on?

GS: You know I'm very fortunate because my micro art sells to high-spending our investors around the world and really my work is a bit out of touch to the everyday man — to the ordinary working person. So I thought I won't go and spend them in Harrods or at an expensive restaurant. I went around to transport cafes because I wanted somebody who maybe needed the money to find one. And then I would hope they put it on a network auction site and make some money for Christmas. That was the thinking behind it.

HM: And how much are they worth do you think?

GS: The press is saying that we're worth 20,000 pounds and upwards, but you never know. It all depends how badly somebody wants it and how much they're willing to pay.

JD: That was Helen, in conversation with a British engraver Graham Short. Three of those engraved five pound notes have been found, but one is still out there.

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July 18, 2017 episode transcript

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