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The AIH Transcript for August 21, 2018

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

HM: Pardon me. Michael Cohen once said he'd take a bullet for his client. Tonight, Donald Trump's longtime lawyer is off to prison after admitting to violating campaign finance laws to pay off a porn star for the U.S. president.

JD: Pardon me too. A jury convicts former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on eight counts of fraud and tax evasion over his work for the former Russian-backed president of Ukraine.

HM: Reckoning with their hosts. Police don't have any suspects in the May bombing of a Toronto area restaurant. But six of the victims are now suing the restaurant's owners. They claim they were caught in a turf war with a rival business.

JD: Justice delayed is well, we're about to find out. More than a decade after he was ordered deported a former Nazi concentration camp guard leaves the United States to be tried in Germany.

HM: Lit as what? They're called Steve and they've been mistaken for the Northern Lights. But a Calgary scientist says the purple streaks in the skies over Alberta are illuminations of another kind.

JD: And…Hero to zero. Ontario police are videotaped pulling over a man dressed in a dark cape and driving what sure looks like the Caped Crusader’s car. As It Happens: The Tuesday Edition. rRadio that's got some questions right off the bat.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Cohen Plea, Nazi Deportation, Steve Northern Lights Study

Cohen Plea

Guest: Mark Zaid

JD: It has been a crazy day of legal troubles for former associates of U.S. President Donald Trump. One time Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been found guilty on eight criminal counts in his fraud trial. And Mr. Trump's former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, pleaded guilty this afternoon to committing fraud and violating campaign finance laws. Both men face the possibility of prison time. Mark Zaid is a Washington lawyer who defends clients on national security files. We reached him in New York.

HM: Mr. Zaid, quite the Newsday huh?

MARK ZAID: You know, whoever up there controls fate or coincidence outdid themselves today.

HM: In fact, not even a day, in an hour two major legal developments regarding two former associates of the U.S. president. Which stands out to you as the most consequential?

MZ: Well, for the president it would be Michael Cohen's guilty plea rather than the eight counts that Paul Manafort, his former campaign manager, was convicted of. And the reason being is that two of the counts that Michael Cohen pled guilty to directly involve the president of the United States. And that is no small consequence. Manafort’s claims all predate the president, but wow those two counts against Michael Cohen, that's a big deal going forward.

HM: Let's break those down. I mean, one of them involves Cohen admitting he violated campaign finance laws saying he did it in coordination and at the direction of the candidate, that being President Trump. What does that mean for him?

MZ: Well, it is potentially problematic. That is for sure. I mean, campaign finance laws are very niche area. But that said, it doesn't take a genius, you don't even have to be a lawyer to understand that when you have someone pleading guilty to essentially conspiring with another individual, that means the other individual presumably conspired along with them. And in that case or this case, that other individual is the president of the United States.

HM: You said that there were two counts that related directly to the president. What is the second one?

MZ: So both deal with the campaign financing and the, essentially, paying money to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, the Playboy model who has said she had a year-long or so affair with the president when, of course, he was not the president about 10-12 years ago. They were not named specifically but it's pretty obvious those were the two. And of course, we have even heard, all of us have heard tape recordings of conversations between Michael Cohen and the president talking about such payments.

HM: It appears that Michael Cohen is facing some serious prison time. Do you know or do we have any indication the extent to which he might or might not be cooperating with authorities as part of this plea?

MZ: We don't know specifically. So the plea arrangement does not have a mandatory cooperation clause which many plea agreements do have. That said, there's no indication that he's not cooperating either. And he's facing about three to five years in jail. And just the way the system works, the more he would cooperate that he may get leniency on those claims. And when you have kids, as he does, the difference between serving say one to three years and three to five years, that's a big deal.

HM: Okay now, in addition of course to the developments around Mr. Cohen, Paul Manafort has been found guilty on eight counts as part of his fraud trial. The judge declared a mistrial on 10 other charges. How might these counts relate to the president?

MZ: So they don't other than the fact that these counts and the facts relating to them all predated Paul Manafort taking over as campaign chair back in 2016. And essentially this was known to many people not necessarily the nitty gritty details, but his relationships with Ukraine, Ukrainian officials was known to the campaign and they assumed the risk in bringing him in to such a public role. I think many of us anticipated that say one to four counts out of the 18 would have a problem, perhaps even an acquittal. I don't think many people anticipated 10 counts being a hung jury, meaning a mistrial. The government can decide whether to retry or not, and eight counts were guilty. And I think it's significant in fact that no counts was there acquittal.

HM: At this point do you think that either Paul Manafort or Michael Cohen have expectations of a presidential pardon?

MZ: Well, I suppose that is the $64,000 question and I don't believe anyone would know the answer to it. They both certainly could become the subject of a presidential pardon. Now that would not cover any potential state claims if any state entities wish to pursue either of them. And the question really is from a political standpoint does it make sense for the president to actually pardon them. And that bigger question is do you do it before the middle election campaign or after.

HM: Do you think, I know it's hard to speculate, but do you think that this is going to be one of those days in history that people look back as being momentous?

MZ: The thing where that kind of makes me smirk is it is when we look at it sitting right now but not knowing what is coming in this administration may have quite a number of bigger days arising on the horizon. But I do think this is a significant day to have two in one day, in one hour amongst several others who preceded and it looks to possibly be also in the future more coming. This is one for the history books.

HM: When you speak of more coming the lawsuit Stormy Daniels filed against President Trump was stayed pending the resolution of this case, it's now resolved. Her lawyer, Michael Avenatti, is already saying that he believes he can proceed with a deposition of Mr. Trump. Do you think it's likely that the president will now be forced to testify in this case involving an affair with a former porn star?

MZ: Did you ever imagine having to say that sentence before? Well, I'm sure the president will try to avoid it and legally fight it as much as he can. But at least looking back on one precedent we have a President Clinton was required to sit for depositions in civil cases that had nothing to do with his presidential aspects. Meaning in this case were Stormy Daniels this has nothing to do with his time or tenure as president. It predates it by Supreme Court precedent that means the president United States as long as the schedule can be coordinated and given the fact that President Trump seems to always be on a golf course, it seems that he would have time to sit for a deposition for a few hours. I think Michael Avenatti is, within the next few months or within a year, going to have a very interesting time and probably videotaped as well.

HM: Well, Mark Zaid, thank you again for your insights. We appreciate it.

MZ: It's my pleasure any time.

HM: OK. Bye-bye.

JD: Mark Zaid is a Washington-based lawyer. We reached him today in New York.

[Music: Whimsical Country]

Nazi Deportation

Guest: Efraim Zuroff

JD: Officials had their sights set on deporting Jakiw Palij for years. And in the wee hours of this morning the 95-year-old Nazi collaborator was finally put on a flight to Germany. Mr. Palij came to the United States after the Second World War seeking asylum as a Polish refugee. He became an American and quietly settled in Queens, New York. But in the early 2000s the truth eventually emerged that he had been a guard at the Nazi labour camp. Mr. Palij’s U.S. citizenship was revoked and he was ordered deported. But it took 14 years for that deportation to happen. Efraim Zuroff has followed Mr. Palij’s case closely. He is the head Nazi hunter with the Simon Wiesenthal Center. We reached Mr. Zuroff in Jerusalem.

HM: Efraim Zuroff, Jakiw Palij landed today in Germany on a deportation order that took 14 years to carry out. How do you feel about that?

EFRAIM ZUROFF: Well first of all, I breathed a sigh of relief that this very long campaign to kick him out of the United States has finally succeeded. This has to be seen in the context of the fact that there have been 10 cases of Nazi war criminals/collaborators who the Americans have obtained deportation orders for who actually died in the United States because no country was willing to accept them. So at least in this case it has been concluded successfully at least from the American perspective.

HM: So tell us a bit about the roadblocks that the U.S. encountered? Why did it take so long for him to be deported?

EZ: The problem was that there was no country willing to take him. There were different reasons in each one of the countries which potentially might have taken him. So for example in Germany, they for many years, did not take anyone who was not a German or a Volksdeutsche — that’s someone of German origin who was living in Eastern Europe. In addition the amount of evidence that was necessary for the Germans to put someone on trial was very substantial, and in fact until 10 years ago, the Germans required proof of a specific crime against a specific person and proof that the crime had been committed and motivated by racial hatred, which is almost impossible to prove these days. As far as the Poles were concerned there were no life witnesses who could testify as to Palij’s active participation in crimes. As far as Ukraine was concerned Ukraine has a terrible record in dealing with Nazi war criminals. There hasn't been a single Nazi war criminal who's ever been even investigated, let alone prosecuted, in Ukraine since that country attained independence in 1990.

HM: Let me stop you just for a second just to clarify the point. Mr. Palij is not German he's Polish. Where does Ukraine fit into it?

EZ: He's actually Ukrainian. He was born in Poland. He was born in what was then Poland.

HM: And neither Ukraine nor Poland were willing to take him?

EZ: Correct.

HM: So when Mr. Palij arrived in the United States it was back in 1949. What story did he tell immigration officials about his own background?

EZ: He simply lied about his service within the Nazis. And he later said that everybody lied because if he had lied he never would have been admitted to the United States, which is probably true.

HM: So what was the truth? I mean, what can you tell us about what's known about his direct involvement with the death of victims in the camp?

EZ: We know that he served in the infamous Trawniki SS training camp. And that camp was a camp that hosted many different people from many different nations and volunteered to serve for the SS and many of them were subsequently sent after their training to work in the death camps. In other words, that camp for many people was a station on the way to service in the worst death camps in Treblinka, Belzitz in Sobibór — these are camps of mass annihilation.

HM: Can I just ask a bit more about the Trawniki camp. It was a labour camp. Who were the victims? Because many Jews died there as well.

EZ: There were two camps there. One was an SS training camp and one was a concentration camp. And the victims in the concentration camp were 12,000 Jews who had been deported to Trawniki from different places in Poland and who were murdered on November 3rd 1943, something called the Erntefest, the harvest festival. And on that day there were mass murders in many different camps in the Lublin area. That was one of them.

HM: Do you have any indication as to what role Mr. Palij might have played in that killing?

EZ: I personally don't but I did work on the case.

HM: You said that the Americans recognized early on the problem they’re going to have getting rid of people that they didn't want to have settle and have a life in the United States that they didn't deserve. Yet this man ended up living on a nice street in Queens, New York for decades. Once his cover was blown how was he treated in that community?

EZ: I happened to know the principal of the school who carried out the protests. He was a person that was very concerned about Holocaust Issues. And every year he used to bring his kids from the Orthodox Jewish high school to protest in front of Palij’s house.

HM: So what changed after all these years of Germany resisting, of the U.S. hitting these roadblocks? What changed that’s now got him back in Germany?

EZ: That’s a good question. Two things changed. First of all, there's a new American ambassador in Germany, Ambassador Grenell who took a very proactive stance on this issue. And it's a different president in the White House.

HM: And you don't think it would have happened without those men?

EZ: Apparently not. The Obama administration had eight years to do it and they didn't do a thing. It was never a priority for them.

HM: In Germany now local media is reporting that Mr. Palij is going to be put on a long term care home. As you know he is 95. Do you think he will ever face trial?

EZ: Listen, there's a saying in the Talmud that after the destruction of a second temple prophecy was given only to fools. So far be it for me to allow myself to be called a fool. I have no idea what to tell you. In other words, it's true that he's 95 but far stranger things have happened than someone 95 years old surviving another several years.

HM: Do you think there is enough evidence at this point in history to convict him?

EZ: The question revolves around one basic question which is: will service trust Trawniki be treated by the German authorities like service in Auschwitz or not? If it will be treated in the same way Mr. Palij can be convicted, not of murder, but of accessory to murder. If not it's unlikely that he'll be prosecuted in Germany.

HM: Mr. Zuroff, thank you very much for explaining this to us.

EZ: You're welcome. Good evening.

HM: Bye-bye.

EZ: Bye.

JD: Efraim Zuroff is the head Nazi hunter at the Simon Wiesenthal Center. We reached him in Jerusalem. We have more on the story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Steve Northern Lights Study

Guest: Bea Gallardo-Lacourt

JD: Skywatchers have been calling it Steve — a purple streak that has been lighting up Alberta skies and dazzling viewers on photographers for decades. Not much has been known about this mysterious phenomenon. But a new study published in The Journal of the American Geophysical Union is shedding some light on what this phenomenon isn't. Bea Gallardo-Lacourt is a space physicist at the University of Calgary and the study's lead author. We reached her in Calgary.

HM: Ms. Gallardo-Lacourt, describe for us what this mystery like looks like?

BEA GALLARDO-LACOURT: So Steve looks like a purplish-white ribbon in the night sky. And it's very narrow in latitude but it extends for at least 2,000 kilometres in longitude so it's very, very longitudinally wide, but latitudinally narrow.

HM: Does it move in the sky? Does that appear to dance or undulate in any way?

BGL: It does. So when you see it propagates usually from east to west and sometimes after the structure is formed we are observing these small rays forming within the structure.

HM: When did people first start noticing this phenomenon?

BGL: So this phenomenon was discovered by amateur Aurora photographers and they had been taking pictures of it for decades. But the thing is Steve is completely new for the scientific community and that's the exciting part.

HM: Why do you call it Steve?

BGL: Oh I love that question. It's called Steve because at the beginning the Alberta Aurora chasers started calling it the proton arc.

HM: The proton arc?

BGL: The proton arc. When their scientists started seeing the pictures they knew that it couldn't be protons because protons are sub-visual and usually unstructured. So they asked them to put a name that will not carry any physical meaning. And they call it Steve because of the Over The Hedge cartoon movie. So what happened is the animals are hearing some noises and they're very scared about what they don't know. So they decide to put a name to make it more familiar and they call it Steve.

HM: And now, as I gather, you guys have added, or someone's added an actual meaning to Steve. What are the words you attach to it?

BGL: Yes. So Steve right now was converted into a backronym by another scientist in the community. And right now it stands for: Strong Thermal Emission Velocity Enhancement.

HM: Okay. So for the people who watch the night sky and the photographers who try to capture it, what have they assumed Steve is?

BGL: I think they accepted the idea that we didn't know and we still don't know. But as a community still I feel like they want to keep thinking that it’s like a proton arc. I think this paper is a good demonstration for everyone but it's probably not.

HM: So that's what makes it not an Aurora Borealis is that right?

BGL: Yes. So an aurora happens when you have particles raining down into the Earth's upper atmosphere. When you have a satellite crossing by any structure that's exactly what you see. But with Steve what we saw was the absence of these particles. So that's why we're claiming that Steve might not be aurora.

HM: And was that obvious to you pretty early on in your research?

BGL: We had an idea based on the previous publication because whenever you have electrons moving, electrons raining down you will see currents associated. And in the first paper that we published we didn’t have any evidence of these currents. And also Steve look fundamentally different from what we expect from aurora.

HM: So if you assume that it's not an aurora, it's not proton arc. What do you think you are actually looking at?

BGL: So the are going back it the way it happens because you have particles in the magnetosphere that rain down into the atmosphere. Steve however, could be created directly in the atmosphere in the layer that we call the ionosphere in the upper part of the atmosphere.

HM: So what do you think might be causing it?

BGL: We don't know yet and that's the exciting part, there’s a lot of research opportunities in this topic.

HM: Are the theories very different are you all kind of leaning towards one thing?

BGL: I think at this point we do not want to speculate. When we see the results from the previous publication we see extremely high temperatures in the atmosphere in that particular region in the atmosphere and ionosphere. So that is giving us an idea that maybe that temperature is able to somehow excite particles in the atmosphere. We don't know how yet. And the other thing is that whenever Steve is observed we also observe our aurora active at higher latitude. So maybe the aurora is playing a role in creating the conditions for the ionosphere to form Steve.

HM: You know, people who chase the Aurora are lucky enough to stumble across seeing it, there's often certain areas of the world where they appear as we know. I mean, Northern Hemisphere sightings for example. In terms of where you see Steve, are there certain conditions certain areas where it's more prevalent?

BGL: So Steve has been reported all over Canada, in some places in Europe and also in the southern hemisphere. And I think as soon as you the correct geo-magnetic conditions you might be able to see Steve.

HM: And is that something else that distinguishes Steve from the Aurora?

BGL: Yeah. So because of the location of Steve if you think Aurora where it usually happens, like for the Aurora Borealis it happens in the north further from all the population. But Steve is at lower latitude. So probably Steve is one of the space weather phenomena that has been best observed in the world.

HM: How unique might it be to have something like this that is capturing the attention of sky researchers like you, astrophysicists, that you really hasn't had past study? Because I would think many other things have already been taken out by so many scientists.

BGL: That's a good question and that to me that's very personal because right now we’re writing an article with other young scientist trying to explain what Steve means when you do research. Because when you get training your PhD you usually try to answer that question that people more or less know what the outcome would be. But with Steve we have no idea. So it's not every day we get involved in something that is discovery so it’s is really, really exciting.

HM: You're solving a mystery you hope.

BGL: Hopefully yes.

HM: And you get to call it Steve.

BGL: Yeah.

HM: Ms. Gallardo-Lacourt, thank you very much for explaining it to us.

BGL: You’re welcome. I'm happy to talk to you.

HM: Okay, bye.

JD: Bea Gallardo-Lacourt is a space physicist at the University of Calgary. We reached her in Calgary. And if you are still a little bit confused about the difference between the Aurora and Steve we're going to leave you with these words from Ms. Gallardo Lacourt quote “I like to describe it to my friends as the Aurora moves like a wily coyote, while Steve moves more like the roadrunner.”

[Music: Acoustic Guitar]

Part 2: Mississauga Bombing Lawsuit, Batman Pulled Over

Mississauga Bombing Lawsuit

Guest: Darryl Singer

JD: Police will not say if they have made any arrests or even if they have suspects in the bombing of a popular Indian restaurant in Mississauga, Ontario back in May. But today, six of the bombing’s victims did lay some of the blame for their injuries on the owners of the Bombay Bhel restaurant. They are launching a civil lawsuit alleging that the bombing was the result of a dispute between rival business associates. Police quickly pushed back on that claim. Darryl Singer is a lawyer representing the group of Bombay Bhel victims. We reached Mr. Singer in Toronto.

HM: Mr. Singer, your clients have no doubt been through an awful lot in connection with this bombing. Why though do you believe that the restaurant itself bears responsibility?

DARRYL SINGER: So there's a couple of reasons but primarily it's based in law. If I own a restaurant I have an obligation to ensure the safety and security of my patrons. In this case, what we say is, and again it's, you know, it's a legal term that we use, they knew, the owners knew or ought to have known that there was a security concern, and knowing that or ought to know that, they should have taken precautions.

HM: You're making some pretty serious accusations suggesting that this resulted because of a turf war between rival business associates. What evidence do you have of that?

DS: So we can't say specifically. What I can tell you, again we we're lawyers, we're civil litigation lawyers we're not police officers, we're not criminal lawyers in that sense. We only know what we are told by our clients and anonymous people that have contacted us as witnesses to say ‘Hey, we've heard these things.’ But that's sufficient at this point for us to say ‘Okay maybe there's something there.’ Our clients have been very frustrated at their inability to get answers. And I want to make it clear that we're not suggesting for a minute that the police are not doing their job. As far as we know the police are doing everything they can and to the extent they haven’t shared information with our clients. I understand why, they can't at this point. Part of the reason for a civil lawsuit is it allows the client a certain amount of control in trying to get answers directly.

HM: But if the police are still conducting their investigation and they clearly haven't dropped this case, they're looking into it. It sounds like you're on a fishing expedition and basing this whole thing on rumors as opposed to actual evidence.

DS: Well, we're not because at the end of the day the in the restaurant has an insurance policy, what we call an occupier's liability policy or commercial liability policy. And in fact, it's ultimately, I anticipate, not the owners of the restaurant who are named as the defendants that will personally be responding but it will actually be their insurance company who will appoint an adjuster and appoint counsel and actually defend the claim on their behalf. And so part of having that policy is to ensure that when people are injured in your premises that there is some compensation for that.

HM: You're saying you're not going after the owners of the restaurant but you're alleging they're involved in a turf war. That implies there are two sides in some kind of dispute. And you're suggesting that led to the bombing. And once again, with that information as you see it being unverified, are you comfortable? Is irresponsible to use the term liked turf war?

DS: Yeah, I feel quite comfortable using it. So there's a couple of things that lead to that conclusion in addition to sort of what we've heard anonymously. And that is there haven't been any other bombings. The police appear to have ruled out a terrorist attack. I've been a lawyer for almost 25 years, there just isn't any other logical explanation other than they were a target.

HM: The Peel Police told CBC News today and I'm quoting that they have never received any reports of threats toward the restaurant owners or staff. What does that do to your theory?

DS: Well, I'm aware that that's very public comment. In fact, that's been the other comment all along. That may or may not be true. As I think I said earlier, the police have been reluctant to share any information with our clients but we know why, they can't. I mean, very often police either refuse to make comments or made comments that are different than the truth. Not because the police — and again I want to make it clear I'm not maligning the police — they have a job to do and often part of their investigative process means they can't tell anybody what's going on.

HM: I just want to get back to their statement though. They also said that they have no information to suggest that this is a turf war. And that's a direct quote. And you are saying you don't think they're lying but they're not being completely honest.

DS: No, I'm saying that my understanding was that some of the information that we had I thought had made its way to the police to the extent as I said to the extent that I become aware of information that they don't have we'll certainly provide it.

HM: If this was, as your clients allege something to do with a turf war, how could the restaurant have prevented this attack? What could they have done?

DS: Well, to the extent the restaurant knew at all that there was any issue with security they could have had more. They could have had more on site security, they could have had more security, more cameras, more surveillance — that sort of thing.

HM: You've made very clear how your clients are doing you know physical and emotional suffering that they've experienced. Is that added to by the fact that there has been no arrests? Is that a problem for them at this point are they just not willing to be patient?

DS: It's not so much that there's no arrest, it's that they simply are looking for some information. My clients have also not — they've reached out to the local politicians at the city council level, at the provincial level and at the federal level just for help in sort of navigating this entire process of moving through their lives and getting the proper care in the hospitals and the medical system. And, you know, there's treatment that they require that isn't covered by OHIP and there is no other place for them to get money to do that. And the outreach they've made the attempts they've made to reach out to the politicians have fallen on deaf ears. That's what actually brought them to us. I mean, I think they just felt nobody was listening to them. The first thing I can tell you when I met with the first group of them, money was secondary. The primary thing they wanted was to find out what was going on so they can get some closure and move on and that they were so frustrated with nobody sort of reaching out to help them navigate the system.

HM: Mr. Singer, I appreciate your time today. Thank you.

DS: Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

DS: Bye-bye.

JD: Darryl Singer is a lawyer representing six people who were injured in the bombing at the Bombay Bhel Indian restaurant in Mississauga, Ontario last May. We reached Mr. Singer in Toronto.

[Music: Detuned Piano]

Helene Van Doninck

JD: When it came to helping animals Helene Van Doninck got the lead out and so much more. The Nova Scotia woman devoted her life to rescuing wildlife. In her spare time she took a hands on approach working at a veterinary clinics to rehabilitate animals. The rest of the time she campaigned to improve things for the animals she could not help in person. She was renowned around the world as an expert on treating birds covered in oil. She campaigned to protect wild birds by asking cat owners to keep their predatory pets inside. And she was the driving force behind a campaign to stop people using lead in hunting and fishing because of its disastrous effects on wildlife. Ms. Van Doninck died earlier this month of ovarian cancer — she was 52 years old. She was a guest on this program back in 2012. Here's part of Helene Van Doninck conversation with Carol.

SOUNDCLIP

HELENE VAN DONINCK: There's problems with wildlife, there are concerns with human health and also of course not wanting to have, you know, the substance itself in the environment but it's basically a heavy metal and a toxin that can poison wildlife.

CAROL OFF: I mean, if the ammunition is being used to kill wildlife it's what hunters do. So how does switching ammunition mean for wildlife?

HVD: Well, wildlife the cases I'm talking about are secondary situations basically where an animal is harvested by a hunter, be it a deer or whatever, and then if there's parts left behind in the environment that contain lead shot then scavengers can eat that and get lead poisoning. And there's also an issue with the behaviour of lead when it strikes a body it will fragment into in a lot of cases hundreds of pieces which presents a hazard for anyone who might ingest it when the game meat.

CO: So what effects are you seeing from this then?

HVD: We see a lot of eagles and every year predictably right around deer hunting season we would get eagles in with lead poisoning. Every year I would see it and, you know, I tried to raise awareness about it and sort of didn't really get very far. And then last December we had four of them in a row that all died. I just said at that point that you know — I couldn't understand why people were still using lead. And I thought well maybe they just don't know, maybe they just don't understand the problem. So I think I'm going to start talking about.

JD: That was wildlife rescuer Helene Van Doninck in conversation with Carol on this program in 2012. Ms. Van Doninck died earlier this month. She was 52 years old.

[Music: Somber Acoustic Guitar]

Madonna Aretha Franklin Tribute

JD: Madonna is defending her performance at the MTV Video Music Awards last night. She has been widely criticized — not for shoddy singing this time — but for a tone deaf tribute to Queen of Soul Aretha Franklin, which ended up sounding quite a bit like a tribute to Madonna — from Madonna. Here's part of what she had to say on stage.

SOUNDCLIP

MADONNA: Aretha Louise Franklin. Changed the course of my life. I left Detroit when I was 18. 35 dollars in my pocket. My dream was to make it as a professional dancer. After years of struggling and being broke I decided to go to auditions for musical theater. I heard the pay was better. I had no training or dreams of ever becoming a singer but I went for it. I got cut and rejected from every audition. Not tall enough, not ‘blend-in’ enough, not 12-octave-range, not pretty enough not enough enough. And then one day a French disco sensation was looking for backup singers and dancers for his world tour. I thought ‘Why not?’ The worst that can happen is I can go back to getting robbed held at gunpoint and being mistaken for a prostitute in my third floor walk-up that was also a crack house. That's right I'm a rebel heart.

JD: And it went on like that. That was part of Madonna talking about Madonna last night's MTV Video Music Awards when she was supposed to be talking about Aretha Franklin. Not surprisingly, many objected to the self-indulgent, I think we could call it, tribute. But Madonna, it turns out, thought she did awesome. Today on Instagram, she wrote quote “I shared a part of my journey and thanked Aretha for inspiring me along the way. I did not intend to do a tribute to her,” unquote. Madonna added “I could never do her justice in this context or environment.”

[Music: Waltz]

Batman Pulled Over

Guest: Stephen Lawrence

JD: A man vaults out of a matte black vehicle, cape billowing, super suit shining. That was the sight that greeted motorists on an Ontario highway recently as Batman himself was pulled over by police. There's video of the interaction between these two very different branches of our justice system. And as you might imagine it has gone viral on social media. To find out what the OPI wanted with the Dark Knight we reached the Batman, also known as Stephen Lawrence in an undisclosed location, which could be Brampton, Ontario.

HM: Batman, tell us what happened the other day? When did you realize that you were being pulled over?

STEPHEN LAWRENCE: This happened on Saturday afternoon. I was actually heading back from Parry Sound. And as I'm driving the Batmobile I do — I am able to tell it when someone is recording me while I'm driving. I try to avoid this because, not only is it legal, but also it is unsafe. So I took advantage. I saw the first vehicle in the line at the red light was anOPP cruiser. I pulled off to the left turn lane so I could get beside, I opened the canopy and I ask the officer ‘Can you give me a hand with the cameras that are behind me?’ She said yes, she can. I said thank you very much. I pulled ahead in front of the cruiser and we continued on. I was heading toward Hurontario Street and I noticed that the lights have changed into a more full on pull you over kind of headlights. So I that pulled over, jumped out and asked the officer is everything okay. She did say she would like to take a photograph with me.

HM: So the officer didn't say that she was stopping you for any offense?

SL: Absolutely not. Yes. There was no offence that happened.

HM: So what did you did, you take the photograph?

SL: I did. There was a nearby school, we pulled into the empty parking lot and safely took the photograph. Now this is me sharing it but I don't want to get the officer into any trouble at all because the argument being they do get excited when they see something unusual as well. And I don't mind having a friendly hand extended to law enforcement.

HM: Has anything like this ever happen to you before when you've been pulled over by police?

SL: It has. Yes. This is not the first incident. And I'm guessing that it will not be the last.

HM: And are you pretty confident that your vehicle is roadworthy, that it would pass all the necessary tests?

SL: Not only has it done it already, but it's done it twice. So absolutely.

HM: One of our producers said she once saw you driving up Highway 400 and found that the Batmobile was going pretty slow, in fact, it was actually holding up traffic. I would assume from what I've seen the Batmobile would normally go pretty fast?

SL: The Batmobile can go very fast. Anytime you see me going slow that's because you're paying attention to me. If you look at my surroundings you'll see that there are one or a few vehicles that are ahead of me that are going slower. And the reason why is because they're looking for videos or a picture of the Batmobile as well. This is me slowing down to not encourage the recording and pictures of the Batmobile while be all in motion.

HM: How long have you been donning the cape and cowl?

SL: I've been Batman for over 20 years now. I have stopped criminals in my past before. This was something that I'd forgotten when I was first out there. There was a reporter that found out my real name, did the research and asked me ‘Is this you?’ I had completely forgotten about it and I realized yeah that that is me. So it made the whole story a little bit more authentic. So it felt pretty good.

HM: So in your own sort of Bruce Wayne identity you actually have intervened and helped out?

SL: I've gotten two citations of bravery. The first one was catching a criminal on a Canada-wide warrant for his arrest. He was part of a fraud ring in Vancouver. The second was from St. Catharines and that was catching a jewelry thief from The Pen Centre.

HM: And neither time you were wearing the cape?

SL: Not at that time.

HM: What prompted you to assume responsibility and take on the persona of Batman?

SL: For those that are not familiar with the comic book story of Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne Batman after the murder of his parents. One of my parents unfortunately had the same story. And losing family, more than just my own father, but losing family it does hurt. Most nights that you end up thinking about these problems and issues and wishing that you could change it. And one of the best feelings I've ever received is when you're out somewhere whether on a regular patrol or if someone asks you to an event and there is a little child that runs with their arms wide open right your arms screaming ‘Batman.’

HM: What is your advice to fellow drivers when they see you out on the road again if they are so lucky?

SL: Please enjoy the sight and sound of, but with your cell phones it's not a good idea. It's not safe for you and it's not safe for me as well.

HM: All right Batman, thank you very much for talking with us.

SL: Stay safe. Thanks for your interest.

HM: Bye bye.

JD: That was the Brampton Batman, otherwise known as Stephen Lawrence. We reached him in Brampton.

Sinkhole Tomato Update

JD: Let's now take a moment to catch up with one of the truly ground-breaking bits of journalism we brought you last week. It is the story of the Toronto sinkhole that went unfilled for so long with someone planted it with tomatoes. As we heard from a resident the plants were starting to bear fruit. On Saturday however, Toronto's mayor announced that that sinkhole would finally be filled. Not to worry though. When asked about the fate of the tomatoes Mayor Tory said they will be transplanted to a community garden and he promised quote “They will survive.” You find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Atonal Berlin Festival

That is from Edgard Vares’ is atonal masterpiece Desir. If it had you scrambling for the exits than Germany's national train operator hopes you're not alone. Deutsche Bahn has just announced an effort to push drug users out of Berlin's Hermannstrasse station by playing atonal music — nonstop. A representative of the network explained quote “Few people find it beautiful. Many perceive it as something to run away from,” unquote. But Laurens von Oswald is not running away. Mr. Oswald is the organizer of Atonal Berlin a big atonal music festival that will open tomorrow. And he was asked by the BBC’s Paul Henley if he could spare the Deutsche Bahn plan with his hopes of having people lined up at the door.

SOUNDCLIP

LAURENS VON OSWALD: Absolutely, I mean, the festival itself has a long history and in its initial incarnation a legendary performance was conducted by a German band called Einstürzende Neubauten that translates into Collapsing New Buildings, where part of their instrumentation was taking jackhammers to the wall the venue. Obviously, some people would find that irritating, others wouldn't.

PAUL HENLEY: Have you ever experienced an audience saying ‘No please stop it?’

LVO: Absolutely, there's been people who don't enjoy it and there's plenty you do also. So it's not everybody's taste.

PH: What's your reaction to what Deutsche Bahn are proposing doing?

LVO: I find it interesting, I find it very interesting. And interesting also that it's happening here in Berlin which has a history of kind of experimental music culture. It is very rooted in music itself. And so it's an interesting experiment that from outside we would definitely support.

PH: Really you'd support the idea of atonal music being so horrible that it gets people out of a station?

LVO: I don't think it's horrible.

PH: Well, clearly it's supposed to be in this case.

LVO: Well, that could be a misstep by the people organizing this experiment.

PH: So it could completely backfire?

LVO: Or it could attract different people and it could have the desired effect it would attract a different audience and a different group of people.

PH: They’re trying to get rid of drug users. Is it possible that people on drugs will actually be less alienated by this music than casual travellers through the station?

LVO: I don't think so. I mean, music is an expression form and people consume all sorts of entertainment forms in all sorts of different states. I don't think it helps to be high, no.

PH: So how do you think it will work?

LVO: Well I think it will become a spectacle. I think people will engage with it. I think, you know, we have no interest in seeing anybody, whether they're labelled as drug users or drug addicts, being pushed out onto the streets any further. I think it's our social responsibility to provide shelter and housing to these people. Berlin has always been very good at that so we see no interest in that. We see entertainment for those people in a way.

JD: That was Lorens von Ozwald, the organizer of the Atonal Berlin Festival speaking to the BBC this morning.

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August 21, 2018 episode transcript

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