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The AIH Transcript for April 23, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

JD: Tonight:

CO: Righteous indignation. The Archbishop of Colombo says he simply has no words to relieve victims of the bombings in Sri Lanka. He does have strong words for government officials who did nothing to stop them.

JD: No encore. The Philadelphia Flyers remove a statue of singer Kate Smith, and will not play her version of God Bless America anymore. Because of racist songs she performed in the 1930s.

CO: Super bugs in the system. This son of a woman who died after contracting a deadly fungus in a Chicago hospital wants health officials to disclose when facilities are hit by such infections.

JD: He talked the talk and biked the bike. In Prince Edward Island, the death of Green Party candidate and avid cyclist Josh Underhay goes far beyond politics.

CO: Slamming The Doors in our faces. On Twitter, someone asked David Crosby what he thought of Jim Morrison and company. And it turns out he wants to light, “Light My Fire” on fire.

JD: And suspended animation. A New Zealand teenager breaks the record for swinging on a swing set. And tonight, we will have a short back and forth about his extremely long one.

JD: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio knows he planned it out carefully, and flew by the seat of his pants.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Sir Lanka: cardinal, Chicago superbug, swinging record

Sir Lanka: cardinal

Guest: Malcolm Ranjith

JD: In Sri Lanka, hundreds of families are burying their dead. Funerals are being held for some of the 321 people who were killed in Sunday's suicide bombings — and the country is observing an official day of mourning. Meanwhile, ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attacks. Sri Lankan authorities have said that the bombings may have been retaliation for the attacks on mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith is the Archbishop of Colombo. We reached him in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

CO: Cardinal Ranjith, what can you possibly say to people who have lost loved ones in these attacks in Sri Lanka?

MALCOLM RANJITH: Well really, there is nothing much that I can say because I, myself, am affected by these deaths. I mean entire families have been wiped out. The husbands, wives, children, pan-parents and grandparents, and it's tremendous. You know, we just can't imagine the suffering that has been heaped on human beings by this kind of activity.

CO: The pictures I've seen are of the people burying their loved ones in large groups. The funerals are being done in groups. And so many children — so many small coffins of the kids who died. And people's grief, it's just so palpable.

MR: It's true, because I went a solemnized two funerals. One in Negombo, where there were two families where five people were killed in the same two families. And then in the afternoon, I went for a funeral where a father, mother, and two daughters were killed. So it was tremendous pain for people.

CO: When you mention Negombo, that’s St. Sebastian's Church, where I think I believe 150 people were killed there?

MR: That's right. That's right. They went for Sunday mass on Easter Sunday. They went because they believed in God, and they wanted to fulfill their spiritual responsibilities in the Easter week. And then they saw these death, you know? It's a terrible thing for us, you know? Unimaginable the suffering that these people have gone through.

CO: And it sounds like you're suffering with them?

MR: Very much, because these are these are people who had nothing to do with this. Whoever these political ideologies, or whatever those political ideologies are, they had nothing to do with this. They wanted to get along with their lives. These are average, middle-class or lower-middle-class people, who wanted to live a happy life. They had their dreams, and these dreams have all been shattered by these people. I just can't understand what ideology they are representing in order to cause harm and damage to other people.

CO: I'm wondering what you are thinking when you hear that the authorities, the highest offices of Sri Lanka had information, perhaps they didn't pass it on to those who could have done something. But they had warnings — several warnings. One of them a quite detailed written brief that described the names of people, the names of organizations, and said that there was a plan to attack Catholic churches. When you heard this news, what did you think?

MR: It is absolutely unacceptable behaviour on the part of these high officials of the government. And I was shocked to hear the interview given by the Secretary of the Ministry of Defence, who sort of you know answered the questions in a slipshod manner, as if he has not felt any responsibility, any weight of what has happened to our people.

CO: I also heard that interview, and it was shocking that he said that all protocols had been followed. And that they yes, they did hear that churches might be attacked, but not on this scale.

MR: These people, I'm sorry to say, these people are people who draws big salaries from the people's taxes. And if they are having a title behind their names, they should be responsible for them. They must attend to their duties as faithfully as possible. And these people should be immediately removed from office. It is absolutely unacceptable. And I’m so sorry to say this. But I have to say it.

CO: If you had known, if they had warned you about this, especially for Easter Sunday, what would you have done?

MR: I would have canceled all the ceremonies, including even the midnight ceremony I would have canceled. Because, for me, the most important thing is human life, human beings, they are our treasure.

CO: So you would have just all church services for Easter Sunday would have been canceled…

MR: I would have cancelled even the holy week itself if I had any such things because it is our responsibility. We can’t play with the lives of our people for the sake of our own theories and our own ideas.

CO: As far as responsibility goes, ISIS — the Islamic State — has claimed responsibility for the attack. What do you make of that? Well how do you react to that admission?

MR: I’m so sad about it. Because you know the word Islamic is something that speaks about peace. Salam is peace in Arabic. So an organization that calls itself Islamic, and representing a religion that is full of thoughts of peace. For them to make use of Islam — that very thought — in order to murder people — innocent people — not those who raise their guns against them or came to fight with them, but people who are absolutely innocent. Who have nothing to do with them.

CO: Sri Lankan authorities are saying that these bombings may have been in retaliation for the attacks on the mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. What do you make of that?

MR: I mean a I cannot understand the logic of this whole argument. What is the connection that we have for those massacres? We have protected and safeguarded the rights of our Muslim brothers and sisters here in Sri Lanka. We have lived together with these Muslim brothers and sisters in peace and harmony. Why should they now attack us in the name of a religion that stands for peace? And in the name of a people — a religious people like the Muslims in Sri Lanka — who have been very peacefully living with us, coexisting with us. Why should our innocent people suffer for this reason?

CO: There is one news report that there is a group of Muslims in Sri Lanka who organised an interfaith event in support of the churches. And it was surrounded by a mob armed with pipes and knives, and had to be broken up by police. What do you say to them?

MR: I am not aware of that incident. But what I know is that ever seen this happened, leaders of the Muslim faith here in Sri Lanka have come to see me. Both political leaders as well as leaders of the mosques, and they have told us that they have nothing to do with this. And I accept that very much. Because I don't think they had anything to do with this. Our simple Muslim brothers and sisters, they had nothing to do with this.

CO: I know how much you are trying to help your Catholics and Christians who are struggling with this. I wonder for yourself, Cardinal, How are you coping with these deaths?

MR: It’s tremendous pressure, because there are no words with which I can console my people. I don't know what to say to them. I try to go for their funerals, and I try to embrace them and tell them I am with them. But I have no words to say. I'm suffering with them.

CO: And what do you say to those who might be afraid to go back to church in Sri Lanka?

MR: I can understand their sufferings, and I will try my best to provide as much as possible, and as soon as possible a safe environment for them to get back to the church. I hope I will succeed. And I want the community around the world to pray for us, so that we may succeed in this dream.

CO: Cardinal Ranjith, I am so sorry for your immense loss. And I thank you for giving us some time tonight.

MR: Thank you. Thank you.

JD: Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith is the Archbishop of Colombo, Sri Lanka. And that is where we reached him. On Sunday, as many as a hundred people were killed as they gathered for mass in the seaside city of Nogombo. Today, their loved ones gathered for the first of what will be a series of mass funerals. This is some of the sound from the ceremony. For more on this story, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A group sings hymns in a foreign language]

Chicago superbug

Guest: Jason Spoor-Harvey

JD: Stephanie Spoor's family didn't fully understand the diagnosis. One thing was clear to them: it was bad. In January, doctors at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago said Ms. Spoor had contracted a fungus called Candida auris. It's potentially life-threatening — and it can be drug-resistant. Less than a month after her diagnosis, Stephanie Spoor died. She was 64 years old. In the months since she past, her family has learned a lot about Candida auris, and about a lack of disclosure from officials battling the bacteria. We reached her eldest son — Jason Spoor-Harvey — in Chicago.

CO: Jason, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

JASON SPOOR-HARVEY: Thank you.

CO: How did you come to learn that your mother had Candida auris.

JSH: In January, due to the lupus flare up that she was experiencing, she'd been given a high dose of immunosuppressants. And so she had regular blood tests done, and that blood test came back positive for the fungal infection.

CO: And where had she contracted the fungal infection?

JSH: At Northwestern Memorial Hospital. We retrieved her medical records, and there's notes in her file that the doctors believe that the most likely point of transmission was one of the cannulas or the IV's that were helping her.

CO: What did your family think when you learned that?

JSH: We didn't really know what to think. You know, the doctor was doing rounds, and had pulled my dad aside into the hall, and just told him that it was a bad infection. And so we were really in a scramble for information you know just trying to even figure out how it was spelled to Google you know search it.

CO: And what have you learned since about what Candida auris is?

JSH: It's a drug-resistant infection that is spreading in hospitals and other long-term healthcare facilities. And I learned that it was not a good prognosis for my mother, who as a result of the lupus flare, was going to need a lung transplant.

CO: And so how did it affect your mom? I mean she was waiting for a lung transplant. What effect did this this fungal infection have on her?

JSH: You know, we didn't necessarily notice anything in the moment, you know? And they had kept it pretty under control symptom wise. You know, other than being a little bit more fatigued. The problem was anytime the medication was able to fight a little bit of the infection, her blood would become re-infected because what the doctors discussed with us is that this fungus, what makes it especially insipid is that it will attach to the foreign entities that are in the body. So the cannula, the IV’s, and even if they would change out the tube, which they tried, it would just get re-infected the tube would — because they would never be able to leave the tubing out long enough to clear her blood of infection, and then reinsert it.

CO: Good heavens!

JSH: Yeah, it made it impossible for her to have a lung transplant.

CO: Would your mom have even gone to Northwestern Memorial Hospital if you had known that they were dealing with this outbreak of Candida auris?

JSH: I think she would have initially because her doctors were at Northwestern, and it was a better hospital. The community hospital that she had been at was like you know we've maxed out, you need to go somewhere better. I think the point at which we would have questioned staying at Northwestern is when they came in and said we are going to have to give her a very high dose immunosuppressant. And at that point, if we had the knowledge of what this infection was and how it impacted institutions and people, that is the point at which we may have made a different choice. And I'm not trying to like second guess. I think we did everything we could. And the doctors and nurses at Northwestern Memorial did everything in their power given the circumstances to help my mom. But I do think that — and this is the whole reason that my family and I have wanted to talk about this — is that we were denied the opportunity to be able to make an educated choice.

CO: So your mother, she didn't survive this. She was taken off life support in the middle of February then?

JSH: Yeah, February 11th.

CO: She was 64 years old.

JSH: Yeah, she was running three miles a day, and chasing down my 3 year olds only two months before.

CO: She was able to see your brother Zachary get married though?

JSH: Yes, she was. My brother proposed last Christmas, and their wedding is scheduled for June 29th. And when my mom first went into hospital and they were talking about lupus, she was laughing that they were gonna put her on prednisone, and she would be too swollen to fit in the dress that she had picked out. She was very excited about the dress. And yeah, so then my brother talked to his fiancée, and she agreed to do a sort of impromptu bedside wedding the day after we got the news that Northwestern, their medical team felt that there was nothing else that they could do, and they were recommending the removal of the life support. And so we did a little bedside ceremony, and brought my mom's dress in, and put it down on the bed.

CO: I see a picture of your mom. It’s this is a really lovely photo. What was she like?

JSH: She was really a wonderful person. She was a preschool teacher. And she raised four boys, and I think all of us would say that we are adults who would consider our mom our best friend. So I think that speaks volumes.

CO: I'm so sorry.

JSH: Thank you [slight sniffle]

CO: I know you're speaking out now because you want the public health system to be transparent about what's going on. How optimistic are you that that can happen?

JSH: I want to be optimistic, but I know that these healthcare institutions are operating with their profit in mind, and their money is driving their decision. Because no institution wants to be known as that infections centre, and the Department of Health is supporting that choice. And so to get those two entities to agree that transparency is more important than perhaps some profits. I am not hugely optimistic that that can happen, but I'm going to keep doing it because there has got to be some good that comes from this craziness.

CO: Jason, again, our condolences to you and your family for the loss of your mom. And I thank you for speaking with us.

JSH: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye-bye.

JSH: Bye-bye

JD: Jason Spoor-Harvey is the son of Stephanie Spoor — who died in February, after contracting Candida auris in hospital. We reached Mr. Spoor-Harvey in Chicago. Northwestern Memorial Hospital declined our request for an interview. And so far, we have not heard back from the Illinois Department of Public Health. But we do have more on this story, as well as in other stories, on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Sombre piano]

Swing record

Guest: Charlie O'Brien

JD: Charlie O'Brien believes he has broken the Guinness World Record for swinging. To be clear, we mean going back and forth on a piece of playground equipment. Last week, the 16-year-old sat in a swing — a flat, hard swing, not one of those awful flexible rubber ones — and then spent the next 33 hours doing something that would make me queasy within eight minutes. We reached Charlie O'Brien at home in Taradale, New Zealand.

CO: Charlie, what was that moment when you broke the record, when they told you you had done it, what did you feel?

CHARLIE O’BRIEN: I felt pretty exhausted, to be honest. You know, I felt good. But I was incredibly exhausting, you know?

CO: And you didn't immediately get off the swing. You just kept going. Were you kind of stuck on it?

COB: Not stuck on it. You know, I had to smash it by a bit. I was hoping to do 40 hours.

CO: Alright, I want to know how you did it? But, first of all, I got to know why you did it?

COB: I was just sorta hanging with my mate, you know? We sort of hang by the swings anyway because it’s something to do when you're talking. That's what I was doing. And I was like yeah, I reckon I could get the world record for the longest time swinging on a swing. And I thought I couldn't, right? But I did now. And I don’t know. I don't think it was really worth it, to be honest, for the joke. You know, I'm being honest there, but it's pretty good being a world record holder.

CO: OK. So you got on that swing at the beginning. What did you have to do you? Did you do anything to spare your to toosh at all? I mean was it just hard swing and keep moving?

COB: I had a mate bring me a kiwi fruit pillow and a few hours in. It was real good to sit on — very comfortable.

CO: And that's it though? You just pushed off, and you just kept on swinging?

COB: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I had a few breaks, you know?

CO: What did you have to eat while you're doing that?

COB: To be honest. mostly Ginger knots at McDonald's, you know? I don’t know if you have them there? They’re like the little biscuits.

CO: OK.

COB: That are ginger. Really hard.

CO: And you had McDonald's?

COB: We have a McDonald's like 100 metres away. I got some mates to buy me tons, you know? I felt better after I ate it, to be honest. I woke up late, so I rushed there on an empty stomach, and I think that's why I started feeling sick.

CO: It looked like though as the hours went on you. You were there all night. Were you alone?

COB: I had a few mates with me. They pulled a sneaky all-nighter. Shout out to the night crew. I don't think they'll ever hear that because they're not in Canada, but you know? But yeah.

CO: So they the morning broke, it was the next day, and you just kept on going. And I saw quite a crowd showed up.

COB: Yeah. That was amazing. When I broke the record, like a ton of people came up, a few mates came to set up like this deejay thing — one of those you know inflatable guys that fly around?

CO: Yeah?

COB: Yeah, yeah. That was amazing. Shout out to James Kane, the legendary deejay, you know?

CO: Did your parents come?

COB: Yeah. A few times, a few times. I don't know how supportive they really were, you know? They said they're proud I broke a world record. I think the probably wished I’d chose something else.

CO: Might you choose something else? Do you have any other world records you want to break in Guinness?

COB: Who knows, eh? If I got to do world records like this, it's gonna be like the Rocky movies, eh? That director, he just made the movies, he made every one like it was gonna be his last movie. So they're all bigger and better than the last. That’ll be my records, eh? I just gotta hope every one's the last one, so I gotta never do it again.

CO: OK. Good plan.

COB: All right, all right. Bye.

CO: Bye.

COB: Thank you.

JD: That was 16-year-old Charlie O'Brien, who broke the world record for longest marathon on a swing on a playground — thirty-three hours. We reached Mr. O’Brien in Taradale, New Zealand.

[Music: Banjo]

Crosby VS. The Doors

JD: "I'd say to Neil Young, 'What are you doing playing with those jerks?!' He'd say, 'They're soulful.' I'd say, 'Man, so is my dog, but I don't give him a set of drums!'" That's David Crosby, insulting Crazy Horse. And that's his buddy’s band. Imagine how he talks about bands of relative strangers! Well, you know what? You don't have to. He does it all the time on Twitter, most recently, a few days ago, when someone tweeted at him to list his favourite bands. He replied, "Beatles, Steely Dan, Little Feat, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Allmans — so many." Then a Norwegian guy tweeted, "The Doors?" Short answer: no. No, The Doors are not one of David Crosby's favourite bands. But here's his long answer. Quote, "Basically sucked. Guitar and drums pretty okay. Keyboard was awful. His bass with left hand was abysmal, horrible — square wheel bad. And Morrison was no effing good as a singer or poet. Poser. Sorry." Unquote. Well, some people agreed, some vehemently did not. And some offered caveats, like the person who suggested The Doors were only bad when they used a real bassist, instead of having keyboardist Ray Manzarek supply the bass line. To which he replied, quote, "No, I'm not wrong — they sucked all the time." But another thing about David Crosby: he tends to have second thoughts. Almost exactly 24 hours later, he tweeted, quote: "I've decided that I'm not going to slag The Doors anymore...it just doesn't feel right anymore so....let's discuss our disgusting prez." Unquote. Oh yeah, he also hates Donald Trump. So he started insulting him instead. Then Mike Pence. And he tweeted that he finds Arcade Fire "a bit pompous". So obviously, he didn't really have a major epiphany about criticizing people on Twitter. Just kind of a minor breakthrough.

[Music: Electronica]

Part two: Kate Smith statue, Josh Underhay obit

Kate Smith statue

Guest: Bob Andron

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Kate Smith singing ‘God Bless America’]

JD: From 1974, Kate Smith singing "God Bless America" before Game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals. The Philadelphia Flyers went on to beat Boston and win that game, and clinched the Cup. And for a long time, if you heard that song play at a Flyers game, it did seem to increase the team's chances of winning. But you won't be hearing Kate Smith's voice in Philadelphia's Wells Fargo Center anymore. Because the team has pulled that tune, and has removed a statue of Ms. Smith erected outside the arena, amidst allegations of racism in songs she sang. Bob Andron is married to the niece of the late singer. We reached Mr. Andron in Charlotte, North Carolina. And a warning, some listeners may find the offensive lyrics disturbing.

CO: Mr. Andron, how did you and your wife react when you learned about the Philadelphia Flyers decision to stop playing Kate Smith's version of “God Bless America?”

BOB ANDRON: Well, my wife was broken-hearted. We heard it from someone else, who had read it in a newspaper. And I think yesterday, we were talking with somebody, and they told us that they actually took the statue away from where it had been. And my wife said what! And that was not very accurate. It was much more of a scream frankly.

CO: And if you're referring to the statue of Kate Smith, which is outside of the arena, right?

BA: Not anymore. We were told that was taken away. And Susie is extremely upset.

CO: And she's actually Kate Smith's niece, and you're married to her, right?

BA: That's correct.

CO: Have you or has your wife spoken to anyone from the team, from the Philadelphia Flyers about this decision?

BA: We have not had the pleasure and opportunity to do so, and would like to do that because this is not a racist issue. And that it has been completely misrepresented.

CO: And we have to give a warning to our listeners about the language in this. But there are two songs that are issue at issue, right? There's one called “That's Why Darkies Were Born,” and another one called “Pickaninny Heaven.” And so you're saying that you don't find these songs to be racist?

BA: Well, let me explain it says that's why darkies were born. Back in 1931, that was not necessarily a bad word or a good word, but it was the way that people refer to people with a dark skin. So Kate Smith, or who was ever singing is, and, of course, she didn't write any of these songs. She's a performer. And the song is someone has to pick the cotton, someone had to pick the corn, someone had to slave and be able to sing. That's why darkies were born. And that sounds terrible.

CO: Yup, it does.

BA: It does. Then someone had to laugh at trouble. Though he was tired and worn, had to be contented with any old thing, that's why the darkies were born. And that's awful. But then came the changing words, sing, sing, sing when you're weary, and sing when you're blue. Sing, sing, that's what you taught all the white folks to do. Now, what she's doing here is elevating the black race, if I can put it that way, to a position of they have offered us something. You, the black people, taught us, the white folks, that's what the song says, how to sing.

CO: Okay, let’s just stop here. Because what happens in these lyrics, which was typical of Jim Crow era thinking, which is that somehow African-Americans accepted their lot, and that they were happy to be of service to white folk. And that's what's implicit in this song, and in the other, “Pickaninny Heaven,”which refers to black children going to heaven where there's watermelons rolling around.

BA: It is awful.

CO: It is awful, and not just… you're saying that we know it's awful now, but it was awful then, was it not?

BA: I wasn't there. I'm 74 years old; not quite old enough for that.

CO: Sorry, but you do know Jim Crow era racism. How can these not be examples of Jim Crow era racism?

BA: The answer is it is representative of Jim Crow on that sense. But if you know the heart of Kate Smith, who said so many times that God gave her the voice as a gift. And here it's saying that singing is the most important thing to do. And just a few years later, if you want to think of her as a racist, this will put that away — because in 1943, she actually invented the telethon. She went on the air for 18 hours on the radio. She raised what is today would be half a billion dollars for the war bonds. She gave all the money for “God Bless America” to the Boy Scouts. She was not the kind of person that one normally thinks of as a racist. You know oh, that’s a terrible kind of person. It's the way the world was back then, and where we're all suffering still from that.

CO: OK. But no one is saying that they know for a fact that she was a racist, but that her work reflects racism, and that era — that Jim Crow era — of racism that many people find very offensive. That her work is a reflection of it. And by virtue of that, it's offensive to have her represent the team among fans who would take deep offense to this kind of language. Can you see that that's perhaps what the message is here?

BA: Sure, I get it. And we all have warts. And “God bless America” should be God Bless America with all its warts. I can't prove or say that that she was or wasn't. All I can do is to tell you that I loved her. She was a wonderful person. She cared about people. When do you draw the line?

CO: Well you draw it at racism, sir. I'm afraid to say that something as offensive as these words are is racism. So yeah, you do draw a line. And I think we've heard from the president of the Philadelphia Flyers, Paul Holmgren, who said this isn't about erasing Kate Smith's history from the team. But he said they cannot stand idle while material from another era gets in the way of who we are today.

BA: Carol, I get what you're saying. And I have not had a chance to talk to him. But I'm looking at the other side of all of this — because there isn't only one way to look at this. We’re trying to say that she was a racist. She may have sung those songs, not even understanding what they could have meant 50 years later, 100 years late. Actually, it's 80 years later. But we can't throw out the good with the bad when the bad represents point 0.6 per cent of the music that she sang, and ignore all of the wonderful things that she did.

CO: Mr. Andron, I think you've made your point. And I appreciate that you're doing that. And thank you for speaking with us.

BA: Thank you. Bye.

JD: Bob Andron is married to the niece of the late singer Kate Smith. We reached him in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Warren Adler obit

JD: It's the brutally hilarious story of the horrifying deterioration of a marriage. It's called "The War of the Roses". And it made Warren Adler's career. The playwright, novelist, and poet has died. He was 91 years old. Mr. Adler didn't publish his first novel until he was 47. He went on to publish almost 50 more books, some of which became movies — including "The War of the Roses". But before he became famous for that book, he was in the headlines for something else: his attempts to pull his son out of The Unification Church, a religious movement in San Francisco run by Korean reverend Sun Myung Moon. The Unification Church was seen by many as a cult, and followers like Mr. Adler's son David were known as "Moonies." "As It Happens" host Elizabeth Grey spoke to Warren Adler soon after he got David home, in 1978.

SOUNDCLIP

WARREN ADLER: They want to quickly get them into one of their camps. They have two main camps in San Francisco. These are recruiting and indoctrination camps. And once they get them in those camps with their own peers, they begin the process of brainwashing.

ELIZABETH GREY: Why did you find out about that?

WA: Well, I found out that they do all sorts of things. Like they have a process called sardinizing by everyone sleeping in one trailer and a sleeping bag that brings people together. And they restructure lyrics of various songs, so that everything is always pointed toward cementing the relationship with the group. So that the group appears stronger than the individual, and they go into confession, and nothing is more binding than sitting around in a circle of twelve people where everyone tells their innermost secrets. And they're having these lectures all the time about the fall of man, and the implication that Moon is the Messiah — the true Messiah. Actually, in my view, wit’s a political organization fronting as a religious group. There's no question in my mind that it's been alleged that they are a child of the KCIA with the CIA helping these people get into the country to do this bit.

EG: How long did it take you to get him away from them, and get him what's the term… deprogrammed?

WA: It took us a number of visits. We were lucky. Few parents ever get their kids out of there. In any event, I spoke to my son, long conversations, for hours and hours and hours.

EG: What was he like when you talked to him then?

WA: Totally out of it, glassy-eyed, smiling.

EG: Had he been drugged?

WA: No. No, I don't think you have to do it by drugs if you have the right environment, and the right situation, and the correct methods of doing it.

EG: Is your son recovered now?

WA: Yes.

EG: He's back to normal?

WA: He's back to normal.

EG: Is there any chance they might try to get him back again?

WA: Oh sure, he's quite aware of that.

EG: Would he be vulnerable, do you think? A second time?

WA: No. No, I don't. I think he finally realized that he had been ripped off, and he has a second chance at life. And he seems to be really taking it with great zest.

JD: That was writer Warren Adler speaking to "As It Happens" in 1978, soon after he got his son out of the religious movement The Unification Church. Warren Adler has died. He was 91 years old.

[Music: Glassy guitar]

Josh Underhay obit

Guest: Becka Viau

JD: Today, people on Prince Edward Island headed to the polls. But it was a somber event. On Friday, Green party candidate Josh Underhay and his six-year-old son Oliver died in a canoeing accident. Voting in Mr. Underhay’s riding has been postponed. For many on the island, Mr. Underhay was more than just a candidate. He was a teacher, a musician, a cyclist, and a friend. Becka Viau works for the NDP campaign. She has known Josh Underhay since they were kids. We reached MS. Viau in Charlottetown.

CO: Becka, first of all, I'm so sorry for your loss.

BECKA VIAU: Thank you. The whole community is mourning.

CO: How did you come to meet Josh?

BV: I met Josh in junior high, so probably when we were around 12, and we were in band together, and he was an early French immersion, and I was in late French immersion. So we sort of combined in junior high into of the French crowd. So that would have been when I first met Josh.

CO: But you stayed in touch, and in fact, your children went to school together.

BV: Yeah. You know Josh and I went to school straight through to high school, and then you know like many on P.E.I., we left for more schooling. And when we came back, we just aligned again with our values and the way we were working in the community. And also our children are close in age, and go to the same school.

CO: How difficult was it for you to tell your own children what had happened to Josh and his son?

BV: I can tell you that it was it was difficult, but children process grief in a way that I don't think any of us can understand unless you're a child. But if there's something about telling your five-year-old that you know someone that she has played with just a couple of weeks ago has is no longer alive, and Oliver was just a beautiful, sweet, sweet boy.

CO: And Oliver I believe was six years old when this canoeing accident happened, right?

BV: Yeah.

CO: There are so many stories about Josh Underhay. I mean just what a remarkable man he was. You mentioned teaching, he had all kinds of skills, such energy, such connections. So what was he like to you? What was he like as a friend for you?

BV: Josh was someone who lived to his highest purpose every day, which meant that he lived his values, he was a man of action, a man of love. As a friend, he was understanding, and he always took into consideration the larger picture around an issue or around a conflict. But I always knew that no matter what, he was a democracy warrior. He was there to fight for a better world for his children and his partner and his children's children. And that's where we aligned as friends. And he will be deeply missed.

CO: Why did he go into politics?

BV: Politics is a way to change the world. And I ran in the federal election the last round, and Josh invited me into his class at Stone Park. And at that moment, I remember talking with him after, and just saying like Josh, you should run. Like next time I'll see your name on the ballot. And I could see a twinkle in his eye because there's something that's powerful about entering politics because you get to have issues be heard. You get to be standing up for what you believe in, and what your community needs, and for future generations. And I was so excited to see his name on the ballot this time around. And I think that what drove him is just wanted a better, more fair future for his children.

CO: We should point out that though the P.E.I. election is today, but not in the riding where he was a candidate, is that right?

BV: That's right. They pulled the poll there, and now we will be heading into a by-election 90 days after last Friday.

CO: You had a potluck on Saturday for the community. This is just a day after the canoeing accident that took Josh and his son. And why was it important for you that you've got everyone together?

BV: My friend Dan and I found out earlier about the tragic event just due to our place within the political system right now. And we just we love Josh so much, Dan and I. And when you're not part of the immediate family, but you're touched by someone so deeply as a friend, and you just know his reach, we felt like we needed to make space to hold each other in the community across all party lines, across all different types of communities that he was a part of. And we just wanted to come together, and hold space for each other, especially because we're at the end of an election. And at the end of an election campaign everybody's energy is so high, high, high up that you know to have a tragedy like this hit the community, everybody just crashed. And that was why we want it to have a potluck gathering. So that his friends, and his community, and people who supported him can come together and hug and cry and tell stories and you know send the message to Karri, his wife, you know that we're all here for him and them.

CO: How will you remember Josh and Oliver?

BV: Well, I am actively remembering him by participating in democracy today, and promoting proportional representation, which was something that he was very determined to see happen. And you know, I'm going to hug my kids every single day and every single night. And kiss everyone, and love everyone, and tell everyone that I know that I love them as much as possible. Because you never, ever know what's gonna happen.

CO: Is there an image, is there a memory that you will cherish about your friend?

BV: I think his smile, and the twinkle in his eye. Even if the listeners just look at pictures of him, you can see it. Because he just lived it. And Oliver, Oliver was just too young to go. And he was a beautiful, slightly interburrded, but very contemplative little boy. And his impact on the world will be missed.

CO: Becka, I appreciate you sharing your memories of your friend and his son with us. And again, I'm sorry for your loss.

BV: Thank you.

CO: All right. Bye-bye.

BV: Okay. Bye-bye.

JD: Becka Viau works for the NDP campaign of P.E.I. She has known Josh Underhay since they were kids. We reached her in Charlottetown. Voting in Mr. Underhay's riding has been postponed till a later date.

[Music: Industrial]

Lottery winner

JD: Manuel Franco was feeling lucky. So lucky that when he bought lottery tickets one fateful day last month, he looked up at the gas station security camera and flashed a smile. We now know it was a multi-million dollar smile. Today, the 24-year-old Wisconsin man announced he won last month's 768-point-4 million-dollar Powerball jackpot. Crunch the numbers, and that puts you in the neighbourhood of a billion dollars Canadian. And as Mr. Franco explained at a press conference earlier today, he almost discarded the winning ticket.

SOUNDCLIP

MANUEL FRANCO: I go into my wallet, and I reach for the tickets that I had bought. And I go through them, and I think it was the third ticket, I did win four dollars, and I was super excited about that.

[laughs]

MF: It doesn't happen very often, so I never claimed it by the way — the four bucks. I get to what I thought was the last ticket, and it didn't win. I had all the tickets on my left hand, and I swapped them over to my right because I was discarding them as I went. And all of a sudden as I changed hands, I see that last ticket come out. It was still attached to the other one. And as dramatically as I've said it to many of my friends and family, I looked at it one number at a time, and I saw that first number, and I see that second number. And then my heart starts to pump and whatnot. And at that moment, I'm like no, no freaking way, you know? I pull that ticket in front of it. Often I go straight to that Powerball number, and I look at it, and it matched it. And, at this moment, I was going insane pretty much. And I look back at the three other numbers, and they all matched. And I don't want to embarrass myself in live TV right now, but what I can explain is it was amazing. My heart started racing, blood pumping; my blood felt warm. I screamed for about five or 10 minutes. Yeah, it's just it's amazing. It feels like a dream. And it feels honestly like any moment I'm gonna wake up, and I'm just gonna be back in my room you know in my bed and laying, and it's gonna be a disappointment. But I can see that you guys are all here and it's not that way. I simply just can't believe that an ordinary guy like me could ever win. The two dollars you spend on the ticket for that hope that you'd win. It's worth it.

JD: Manuel Franco speaking at a press conference earlier today. The 24-year-old Wisconsin man is the winner of last month's 768-point-4 million-U.S.-dollar Powerball jackpot — the third-largest lottery amount in U.S. history.

[Music: World music]

Part three: feature: Toronto attack anniversary

Feature: Toronto attack anniversary

Guest: Katherine Laidlaw

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[Sound: A choir sings “In Remembrance”]

JD: This is the sound of two North York school choirs singing "In Remembrance" by Eleanor Daley at a ceremony in honour of the victims of Toronto's van attack. Today is the one-year anniversary of that attack — the deadliest mass killing in Canada in nearly 30 years. It was a sunny afternoon at a busy intersection in North Toronto, people were out enjoying the weather. Then, a van hopped the sidewalk and plowed into the crowd. Ten people — eight of them women — were killed. Tiffany Jefkins watched it happen. This morning, she spoke with "Metro Morning"'s Matt Galloway about what was going through her mind at the time.

SOUNDCLIP

TIFFANY JEFKINS: We had already stood up. And as I'm in this position speaking to her, I see the van — a white van — mount the sidewalk, and plow into a group of pedestrians.

MATT GALLOWAY: And that was just right over here?

TJ: Just right here. And it veered off back onto the road. And just continued south down the street.

MG: What did you think as you saw this happen? Did you understand what you're seeing?

TJ: We didn't understand. Because I think my greatest fear was that the driver of the van was having a medical emergency, and they had no control. But when I think back to that experience, I realized it wasn't true because he was accelerating while going through the crowd. And there was actually a gentleman running after the truck. It seemed a little odd to me, but I thought that he might have seen or wanted to help the driver. And so it was just complete, utter shock. We had no idea what was happening. And I think everybody in the square just froze that day.

MG: When did you realize what was happening?

TJ: When the screaming happened. I think when you realize that you know everyone's in shock at what just happened, there are now bodies on the ground, and people just started screaming. And I don't even know where the sound came from, but like I said because there are so many people here that day, that I knew something big was happening. That these people potentially needed help, and that I really hope that man running after the truck caught up to him or hopefully stopped him as well.

JD: Tiffany Jefkins witnessed the van attack in Toronto one year ago today. Alek Minassian has been charged with ten counts of first-degree murder, and 16 counts of attempted murder in the attack. Not much was known about him. But Katherine Laidlaw has since learned more. She wrote an in-depth profile for Toronto Life magazine called "The Lonely, Twisted World of Alek Minassian." Katherine Laidlaw joined Carol in the "As It Happens" studio.

CO: Katherine, what were you hoping to learn by speaking with the people who knew Alek Minassian?

KATHERINE LAIDLAW: I went in thinking that this was going to be a story about a subculture where misogyny runs rampant, and sort of is radicalised, and turns into extreme violence. I mean that subculture does exist. And Alek certainly identified as a part of it. But the overarching themes that I encountered in his life were not overtly misogynistic ones. And so I think my conclusions were a little different. But initially, I set out to sort of understand why there was this vehement hatred towards women, and then why there were sort of these pockets on the Internet where this hatred was allowed to fester unfettered.

CO: But before he got involved in the Incel movement, and started to manifest that kind part of that extreme misogyny that is within that community, you went into his childhood, you went into his school years, you talked to his friends. What did you learn?

KL: I learned that Alek and his family predominantly led a really quiet life. Everyone I spoke to about his parents described them as very intelligent and very kind. They were described to me as a tight-knit family. And as Alek sort of progressed through the school system, it became clear that he lived with what was then called Asperger's syndrome. And what's now I think more commonly referred to as autism spectrum disorder. And so he was sort of given extra help. He went to Thornley, which is a high school in Richmond Hill, where there's quite a substantial special education program. And he had assistance through that, and then a community program that his mom took him to called Helpmate. And it seemed to me that over the course of sort of looking at each stage of his life, his early life, his high school life, college, the army, and college again, that there's sort of this current of a desire to belong somewhere.

CO: But at the same time, being a misfit in every respect.

KL: Absolutely.

CO: I mean behaviour that invited the kinds of bullying he had. He made strange sounds in school, growling, reacted when kids would poke and prod him as though he wasn't even human. They would bully him. He found it impossible to make friends. And he had great support from his family, who kept trying to find ways of getting him through it. But what you discovered was a fellow who just couldn't make friends.

KL: Couldn't connect with people. Yeah, not in the real world at least, yeah.

CO: You also explored what his early feelings in relationships were with girls. What did you learn there?

KL: Yeah, so one thing I learned about some people who live with autism is that gullibility is a sort of key quality that many of those people have. And so something that was described to me that would happen to him in high school was he sort of adamantly didn't like girls, but the kids would sort of seize on this gullible nature that he had, and goad him into sort of approaching different girls in his class, and that kind of thing. And then the girls would shut him down or turn away, and he would sort of run away screaming or dejected. And say I don't like girls. I don't like girls. And sort of make hissing noises and things like that. And so, to me, that just is emblematic of a person who can't interact socially, and who other people have sort of settled on as maybe not a scapegoat exactly, but a person who can be used for the group's entertainment.

CO: And they amuse themselves by seeing how he reacts.

KL: By toying with him, um hmm.

CO: You write that with Alek Minassian thrived online, but he couldn't navigate the outside world. What did that internal online world do for him?

KL: Sure, yeah. I mean from a fairly early age, he was involved in gaming. He loved to play Halo online — in part because it offered sort of a way of playing with other people where he didn't have to interact face-to-face with them. He had one close friend through high school who he remains close to up until December, when they spoke on the phone while he was in prison. And a large part of what their friendship consisted of was the two of them getting together at Alek's parent’s home and gaming together. It just seemed like a way in to communicating with people that was in our lower stakes environment. And computers were machines he understood.

CO: He was very good at it too. I mean when he finally went into a college program and he excelled, his fellow students were impressed by how brilliant he was.

KL: Yeah, brilliant was a word that a couple of his fellow students used for sure to describe his output in the program. They were confused about why it took him so long to finish, and why he was sort of bouncing from job to job because he had so much work experience. And because he was so clearly adept at the type of coding that they were doing.

CO: But if he was thriving in that environment, if he'd sort of found his niche — he found a groove for himself. Why did he torture himself by signing up for the military joining, the army?

KL: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't have a clear answer to that. My understanding is that his parents suggested it to him. And I can only assume that that was because he was experiencing frustration. My reporting bears out that he was experiencing frustration in the sense that he was having a hard time holding down a job. And why they chose the army, I do not know?

CO: How long did he last?

KL: Sixteen days.

CO: And it was horrible I mean for everybody, right? His platoon was just wanting to see the back of them him. See him gone.

KL: That's right. And I think it wasn't necessarily sort of an overly malicious response on their part. I think it was sort of like how is this guy going to operate a firearm? And his platoon leader actually — his section leader — said to me like he wouldn't be able to get a firearm license as a civilian. So how on earth did he make it pass the assessment for the Canadian forces infantry?

CO: You have to ask how that happened. But at the same time, I can't see anything that you discover or you hear from anybody. What's the first evidence you have that he has some kind of violent intent?

KL: Yeah, the first example that was presented to me was the altercation that happened near the end of his final term at Seneca. I don't have a lot of clarity on what happened. I reached out to all 20 students who were in the class. And what I was able to piece together was that he was seated in the back of the class one day, a commotion started. Chairs were shuffling. There was some scuffling, and some yelling between him and one other student. About what, no one was either exactly sure or willing to say. But the altercation finished with Alek swearing at the other student in really loud voice, and storming out of the classroom. Afterwards, there were some discussions in an online group chat that some of the students had about whether anyone understood what was going on or knew what was happening with Alek? And the general consensus was no, that people weren't quite sure what had prompted the outburst. Just that it was definitely him and that he had left the class. And then a couple of weeks after that, he posted quite an aggressive, also profanity-laced message in the online chat that he was a member of lashing out at his fellow students. And it was so out of character that they initially thought it was a joke. And then sort of later realized that maybe it wasn't a joke, and what was going on?

CO: We’re talking about weeks here though. Because I mean he's in the military, he leaves, he comes back, immediately finishes his last term in college, his last semester, as violent as it gets as this altercation it the back room. The F word is used liberally. Whoa, you know this is not this is not someone you think is about to get into a truck and start driving over people. So what happens in that online community that you did you describe, and we looked at at the time — the very day we knew that he was part of this thing called Incel. What happened in there that may have triggered him?

KL: Yeah, so I spent some time through something akin to the Internet: Wayback Machine, an archive, going through the conversations that were happening on the forum that people speculated he was a part of, which is a subsection of 4Chan called R9K. And I wanted to see what the conversations were like leading up to that day, whether anyone was talking about this, or whether there was sort of anything attributable. And I didn't find anything that looked like it had been definitively written by Alek. But the conversations were like poring over those forums is something close to hallucinatory. Like it is so dissociative, and they're so vitriolic, and the conversations range from racist tirades about the Aryan race’s superiority, to like the moral merits of incest, to how badly some members of the groups want to kill every woman that they see.

CO: They call them…. there's Chads and Staceys, right?

KL: Right. So they've sort of developed these I want to say caricatures… I guess archetypes that they've given these names that sound innocuous enough on the surface. But once you realize sort of what they're referring to, it's pretty horrific. And so a chad is sort of the ideal man figure, who is able to get all of the women, and by extension, all of the sex that they desire, and sort of the world is set up to favour the chads. And then the Staceys are the attractive women that the Incells lust after, but who only pay attention to the Chads. And then it sort of goes from there — there are some sort of more crass terms that are used as well.

CO: And I guess if that's where it stayed was with this horrible language and this very inside thing within the movement it wouldn't be as significant, but they celebrate this guy Elliott Rogers, who acted on it, right? He went and stabbed and shot people because he felt that girls didn't like him. He wanted revenge for not being able to get dates.

KL: Yeah, and he actually before he did that posted a manifesto online, which has sort of become like a go to touchstone document for these groups. And people still extol Elliot Rodger's virtues, and use his photo as their avatar photo, and have nicknames for him. And Alek as well, to a slightly lesser extent, potentially because we haven't heard as much from Alek. But it's scary the extent to which they've sort of adopted these men as leaders.

CO: So on April 23^rd last year, 12;13 in the afternoon, Alek Minassian goes into the Ryder truck rental office, gets the vehicle that he has pre-booked. He has to figure out how to drive it. People are laughing at him in the office because he doesn't seem to. And then he writes this Facebook message before he sets off in the vehicle. Private Recruit Minassian, infantry triple-zero-ten, wishing to speak to Sergeant 4Chan, please. The Incel rebellion has already begun. We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys. All hail the Supreme gentleman, Elliot Rodger. And then he heads out.

KL: That's right.

CO: And what does he do?

KL: So he leaves the Ryder parking lot after significantly I think being shown how to drive this van by a woman who is working there, and he heads towards Younge and Finch. He turns right off Finch onto younge Street, mounts the sidewalk, and begins what I would describe as a path of terror and destruction.

CO: Ten murdered. He's charged with 13, plus another three attempted murders, 16 attempted murders from people between the ages of 22 and 94 — eight of them women.

KL: That's right.

CO: How close did you get to speaking to speaking to Alek Minassian?

KL: I have been in touch with his lawyer. I have spoken to people who have spoken to him from prison. I was told that he wasn't interested in granting an interview.

CO: You wanted to talk to him. You tried to get that interview?

KL: Of course.

CO: What did you want to learn? What do you think you could have gleaned from that?

KL: I think that a lot of people in the city, myself included, have questions about how something like this could have happened? And who this person is? And like it's unfathomable to me that someone could hate women so much that they would kill people at random because of it. I guess I wanted some confirmation that that was, indeed, what happened. I think for a couple of reasons. One, I think that it makes moving forward a slightly easier, or at least slightly clearer. And two, I think it gives us as a society a path. It illuminates sort of where we have work to do in prevention. And I think if it was, indeed, an online radicalization issue, which his closest friend seems to think it is, and that's the theory that I myself put the most stock in, then I think we need to look seriously at why these forums are allowed to exist?

CO: What do you want us to understand about Alec Minassian? What do you want us to take away from your article and your research?

KL: I mean this tragedy has touched so many people in Toronto. So many people that I know have some connection to the area, to someone who was hurt, and I think I wanted to offer a deeper understanding to people who had questions. I still have so many questions. And I think I also wanted to sort of from a broader perspective challenge the narrative a little bit that came out immediately after the attack. I wanted it to be a straightforward narrative, and it is not that. And I think that people need to consider that more deeply, and look maybe at how we're taking care of each other in the world. And that's not to offer an excuse for what happened. He is charged with horrific crimes, but I do think that if what we want is to live in a more empathetic world where we can do what we can to prevent these kinds of things from happening, then looking at why they happen is essential to that.

CO: And we say he has been charged, nothing's been proven in court at this point, and we don't know how he's going to plead. And so we may never learn anything more about this.

KL: That's true. He could plead not criminally responsible. He could plead guilty. And then there will not be a trial, and we will never know. And I I don't want that for my city.

CO: Katherine, once again, thank you very much for your work, and for this article.

KL: Thank you.

JD: Katherine Laidlaw wrote a profile of Alek Minassian for Toronto Life magazine. She was in our Toronto studio. At the ceremony today in the North York Civic Centre, Toronto Fire Service Chaplain Hugh Donnelly said they had gathered to help one another remember, and to help one another heal. Chaplain Donnelly told the families of the victims, quote, "our hearts go out to you." Then he invited them to come forward and place a rose, as he read out their loved ones' names.

SOUNDCLIP

HUGH DONNELLY: Renuka Amarasinghe, Andrea Bradden, Geraldine Brady, So He Chung. Anne Marie D'Amico, Betty Forsyth, Chul Min Kang, Ji Hun Kim, Munir Najjar, Dorothy Sewell. We mark their lives with a moment of silence. Together we remember them.

SOUNDCLIP

JD: That was Toronto Fire Service Chaplain Hugh Donnelly reading the names of the victims of last year's van attack. Today marks one year since the mass killing.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

FOA: Myanmar journalists

JD: Today, Myanmar's top court dismissed the last appeal of two Reuters journalists. Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe have been in prison since 2017, when they were convicted of violating the country's Official Secrets Act. They were charged after reporting on a massacre that took place during the ethnic cleansing campaign conducted by Myanmar's military against the country's Rohinga minority. In January, their colleague Reg Chua described the story for Carol. Here's some of that conversation, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

REG CHUA: that's a story that not only was documented through interviews and photographs and testimony of the people who committed the crimes. But that the Government itself admitted that that massacre did take place and that they've said that they've punished these soldiers involved. So you know there is absolutely no disagreement that what they were working on was true.

That's a story that not only was documented through interviews and photographs and testimony of the people who committed the crimes but that the Government itself admitted that that massacre did take place and that they've said that they've punished these soldiers involved. So you know there is absolutely no disagreement that what they were working on was true. So here we have reporters working on a story that that is true that is clearly a public interest. And yet obviously someone didn't want them to publish this story. So here we have reporters working on a story that is true. That is clearly a public interest. And yet, obviously, someone didn't want them to publish the story.

CO: They were charged with being found in possession of documents. Can you remind us what happened there?

RC: They were invited to meet with two police officers that they had not met before. They showed up. They talked during the dinner. The police officers gave them some rolled up documents and said don't look at it until you leave the restaurant. As they left, they were pounced upon and arrested. And, as I say, there's been testimony from the police that this was an ordered set up of them. So it was very clearly a case where they wanted to find a crime they could pin on Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo.

CO: You suggested that it's possible part of the reason why these two journalists are being treated this way is to send a message. What do you mean by that?

RC: Clearly, there is a chilling effect when you take journalists who are simply doing their job, and you put them in jail. I think that clearly sends a message to a lot of other journalists who will ask themselves you know how important is any story? You know how badly do I want to take the same sorts of risks that they did?

CO: How difficult has this been for them?

Well, it is obviously a very difficult and trying time. Kyaw Soe Oo has a now 3-year-old daughter who he has only seen intermittently. She's incredibly adorable. And her mother says that she is only now starting to understand what's happening to her father — which is, of course, a terrible thing. And Wa Lone has had a daughter born while he was in jail, whom he's only seen glimpses of as well. So it is a terrible time for both of them. They are holding up I think remarkably well. And I think testimony to their strength and their spirit that they can come to these court hearings. That they could come and give these impassioned pleas for press freedom. You know assert their innocence. And really call upon the rest of the press corps in Myanmar to just keep doing their jobs. I think it's extraordinary. It really kind of shows you know what kind of people they are.

JD: That was Reuters editor Reg Chua speaking to Carol in January. Today, Myanmar's top court rejected the final appeal of his colleagues Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe.

[Music: Spanish guitar]

Skittles numbers

JD: A few years ago, the National Confectioners Association said more than 16 billion jelly beans are made in the U.S. every year for Easter. Enough, the Association claimed, to fill a chocolate egg 27 metres high and 18 metres wide. If you're anything like me, you've already forgotten the numbers I just mentioned. I was just thinking about jelly beans. And then candy in general, and how I want candy. Now, I bring this up because I'm about to tell you a story about candy and math, and we're all going to need to focus, because the minute I say "Skittles", you're going to think "I love Skittles". And then you'll think "I want Skittles", and we'll immediately forget what we're learning, which is that someone has just conducted an elaborate experiment. The conclusion is the title of a blog post. Quote, "I found two identical packs of Skittles, among 468 packs with a total of 27,740 Skittles". Unquote. This person runs a science, math, and computing blog called "Possibly Wrong". Earlier this year, they publicly pondered some Skittles-related math questions. Among them, quote, "what is the expected number of packs that must be purchased until first encountering a duplicate?" Unquote. Now we know. And I'll spare you the complex details, since I'm sparing myself the details. But I will say that after cataloguing all the colours in many packs of Skittles, this person found two packs with exactly the same Skittle distribution — the same number of reds, oranges, yellows, greens, and purples — after examining 468 packs. You can find all the findings at PossiblyWrong-dot-Wordpress.com. Or you can buy some candy and let it do its job —which is wiping your memory of everything but candy.

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April 23, 2019 episode transcript

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