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The AIH Transcript for July 28, 2020

Hosts: Susan Bonner and Chris Howden

SUSAN BONNER: Hello, I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I’m Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

SB: The hot seat. WE Charity co-founders Craig and Mark Kielburger answered politicians questions for hours today. Our guest describes the standoff between the media-trained brothers and the opposition looking for a smoking gun.

CH: No friend but the mountains and the Kiwis. The Kurdish-Iranian writer who wrote a prize-winning book on his phone in an offshore detention facility is granted refugee status in New Zealand. We revisit his interview with Carol.

SB: Home truths. The joy at the arrival of H.M.S. s Frederickton in Halifax this morning after six months at sea, came cut with grief at the absence of the six crew members killed in a helicopter crash in April.

CH: It can't hurt to mask. Students in Jefferson, Georgia are heading back to class this week. We reach the high school senior trying to make sure her classmates mask up.

SB: Leap of faith. A Vermont man tells us he's grateful to be mobile again, after the prosthetic leg he lost skydiving turns up only slightly bruised in a farmer's field.

CH: And fan-fiction. Baseball mascots are back at work, too. The original Philly Phanatic tells us why empty stadiums are not. He wants his costumed colleagues to keep their giant heads in the game.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio dislikes being mascot off guard.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: WE testimony, Georgia school students, empty baseball stadium mascot

WE testimony

Guest: Janyce McGregor

CH: The Kielburger brothers said it wasn't about the money, or the political connections. They told a committee of MPs they were motivated to help young Canadians. WE Charity co-founders Craig and Marc Kielburger sat through four hours of grilling today at the finance committee. The Liberal government had tasked the charity to administer a 900-million-dollar student volunteer program. The charity pulled out after questions were raised about the close connections the Prime Minister and his Finance Minister had to the WE Charity organization. Here's NDP MP Charlie Angus asking the Kielburgers a pointed question today.

CHARLIE ANGUS: Why don't you guys register to lobby government govenment?

CRAIG KIELBURGER: Engaging the federal government is a relatively… It has never been more than a few percentages of our budget.

MARC KIELBURGER: of our budget, yes.

CK: In fact, it represented last year one-point-zero-three --

CA: But how how little the money you get has nothing to do with the legal obligations. It's how much time is spent. So in the last months, I mean, you've been heavily involved in these programs with Minister Chagger, Minister Ning, Bill Morneau’s office is involved. Are you telling me that somebody in your office wasn't spending at least seven-point-five hours a week doing this? Because that --

CK: Sir, I’m happy to speak to that.

CA: Is lobbying.

CK: If I may clarify this point, the government came to us to ask for assistance on a program previous to this point. This was highly unusual for us to be spending any significant amount of time with the federal government on these types of proposals.

CA: But you’re getting a lot of money from them. I mean, YMCA registers to lobby, the Heart and Stroke Foundation, and they don't get nearly the kind of money that you guys have gotten. And yet, none of them say, for example, hire the prime minister's mother or the prime minister's brother, or they have the prime minister's wife, or Bill Morneau's daughter, or fly Bill Morneau. The image that you're giving here is that you're getting influence by the kind of power that you'd have. So when you call, they call you, that is lobbying. And you have an obligation, and you are not meeting that obligation.

CK: Having a mother of an elected official, not an elected official capacity, but as a speaker on mental health, these things I don't believe are actually defined as lobbying.

CH: That was Craig and Marc Kielburger responding to NDP MP Charlie Angus at a finance committee meeting today. Janyce McGregor is a CBC parliamentary reporter. She's in Ottawa.

SB: Janyce, we heard the Kielburger brothers repeat a kind of mantra today that they just wanted to help young people with this program. Do you think their testimony was convincing?

JANYCE MCGREGOR: Oh, boy [laughing]. You know, one of the things about this controversy, Susan, that I have found since I've been covering it for the last month or so has been that what you hear when people say things like that is often subject to I don't know... what do they call it, confirmation bias? There seem to be some people who are predisposed to take the Kielburgers at their word on something like that. There are other people who, from the start, have been very concerned about this volunteer scheme being put in the hands of WE Charity. Raising issues about this organization for years in terms of the way it works overseas, the treatment of its employees, the issues with some of its financials. This didn't start with the Canada Student Service Grant. And for those people, they will hear that and find it completely hollow.

SB: We just heard the NDP’s Charlie Angas, suggesting there that We Charity may have been forging these strong connections with the Trudeau's for years, and with the Morneau family for years so they could win this contract. So how did the Kielburgers defend themselves on that?

JM: On the surface of it, they are saying that the reason they were engaging, for example, with members of the Trudeau family, was because they are interesting people in their own right. They, you know, were actually quite defensive of working with the wife of the prime minister, Sophie Gregoire Trudeau, or Margaret Trudeau, the mother of the prime minister, because they said these people are people in their own right. They have accomplished things. They have stories to tell. They have things to contribute. That is why we are working with them, not just because they are the family members of the prime minister. So that is one way they explain it. The other way, though, is that they are suggesting they have a good cause here. [laughing] I guess if I could put it that way.

SB: Well, on the point that Charlie Angus is making about lobbying, Janyce, is it a fair question? Why wouldn't they just register as lobbyists, when so many other charities do just that?

JM: Yeah, I think that exchange that you played was one of the most effective ones. I think Charlie Angus perhaps got them off of some of their talking points. They seemed keen to suggest that they hadn't registered because they didn't have to according to the rules as they stand now. But the impression you get, though, is that there were contacts with ministers. They've acknowledged contacts with three ministers. In earlier testimony, this seems like they were making unsolicited proposals, but they are now turning that around and saying, well, actually, we were asked to offer ideas to the government. I think that was an important twist in the testimony today as well. They saw a way that they could help. You see how they're changing the spin around there? [laughing]

SB: Well, Janyce, there have also been suggestions the charity was hurting financially. And a big government contract might help them out. Did the opposition get any traction on that one?

JM: I don't think that maybe landed. They mentioned that they had had to lay off a lot of employees because of activities they could no longer do through the COVID-19 pandemic. And that if they were administering this volunteer grant scheme, they could bring some people back to do this work. It did seem like that came up in their conversations with government officials, but it doesn't seem to have been kind of either the first thing they said in their pitch or really part of the rationale for awarding this contribution agreement to the WE organization.

SB: How do you think today's testimony set the scene for the big day on Thursday, as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau testifies at committee?

JM: If I was in charge of preparing the Kielburger for this testimony today, I think as it concluded, I would probably feel like this was a pretty good outing. And I think in the course of their testimony, as far as the prime minister is concerned, a few really important facts came out for him and his government. Namely, they had never spoken to the prime minister on the phone. That was their sworn testimony. That aside from the three ministers I mentioned, they hadn't been in direct contact with other senior people in this government this spring. I think that probably, you know, is helpful to the prime minister if he is going to portray this contribution agreement as being given on its merits, not because of the results of some kind of special influence or sway over his government. I guess the other thing that crossed my mind is I do suspect the prime minister is going to have to talk about the speaking fees to members of his family. On that point, maybe today's testimony is a little bit more mixed, because what we learned today was that quite apart from the speaking fees, which had been disclosed previously by WE, pretty considerable speaking expenses were paid to members of the Trudeau family, particularly Margaret, over the 28 times that she was paid to appear at events. But it's a six-figure sum in expenses now on top of the speaking fees that she received. And Sophie Gregoire Trudeau, although she wasn't receiving fees when she spoke, she was getting expenses for these seven engagements they've disclosed. And those expenses might be in excess of 25-thousand dollars, all told. That's a lot of money, I think, to a lot of Canadians. And when people are evaluating the relationship between the Trudeau family and this organization in light of the conflict of interest allegations. And remember, at its heart, this is a controversy over conflict of interest allegations. People are going to look at these expenses for these trips to speak at WE events, and they're going to say, wow, that is a lot of money. I think he will probably be facing some tough questioning on that.

SB: Janyce, thank you for helping us out on this busy day.

JM: You're welcome.

SB: Goodbye.

JM: Goodbye.

CH: Janyce McGregor is in CBC's parliamentary bureau. We reached her in Ottawa.

[Music: Ambient]

Georgia school students

Guest: Hope Terhune

CH: It may still be summer, but later this week, students in Jefferson, Georgia, will head back to class for the first time in months. A lot of jurisdictions have delayed school starts, or shifted to virtual learning. But officials in Jefferson have opted for in-class learning. And while they say they'll, quote, "strongly encourage" masks for students and teachers, they aren't taking steps to mandate them. Hope Terhune is hoping to change that. The high school senior and a friend have launched a petition that would make masks mandatory in schools throughout the city. We reached Hope Terhune in Jefferson, Georgia.

SB: Hope, why did you start this petition to make masks mandatory at Jefferson schools?

HOPE TERHUNE: Well, I had been talking to my mom about how I was concerned that masks aren't already mandatory. And she brought up the idea. So I texted my friend Riley Meadows, and we both made the petition just to see how many people had the same opinion as us and to see how far we could get with it.

SB: And what were you worried about? What were your concerns?

HT: Well, my dad is very high-risk. And I'm concerned that once we go back to school, and a lot of kids at school are not wearing masks, that the COVID will continue to spread. And I would potentially get it and spread it to people in my family and in my community. And it would just make things a lot easier if masks were mandatory and everyone wore one, and it would ensure that less spread would occur.

SB: Well, from what you know so far, what will your school be doing differently this year to make things safer for students like you and for staff?

HT: Um, the hallways are kind of like driving. You can only walk certain directions on each side. There is hand sanitizer stations. Our desks can only face one direction, so we can't be facing each other. All of our teachers and administrators will be wearing masks. They're providing us with masks, but they're not mandatory. Those are the big things that they're doing to make it safer.

SB: How did the principal explain the school's decision not to make masks mandatory?

HT: They said that there are some students in our school who contacted them and said that they have medical conditions, which makes it impossible for them to wear masks. So making it mandatory would make it complicated for those students. They also said that right now, they're just trying to get us back into the school and see how things go. They said that they are going to be flexible. And if the cases do start rising and getting worse, then they will make them mandatory. But right now, they're focused on getting us back in the school and creating the culture of like wearing a mask without it being mandatory, because they also said they don't want to have to constantly be, like, telling students that they need to have their mask on.

SB: And what about your classmates? What's been their reaction?

HT: It's been very mixed. We had some students reach out to us and say like they completely agree. They were sharing our petition and posting facts and trying to get people to sign. But there's also been the opposite with students saying that like they're never going to wear a mask to school. We even had a kid make a petition that said that masks should still continue to be optional. And that got some signatures as well. So it has been very divided.

SB: You know that people are divided. How would you describe the kind of divide that's developing over the mask issue?

HT: I think that it's very political. The students who don't want to wear a mask have even said that it's less of mask than it is their rights, which, you know, I just personally don't agree with. And that's fine. Everyone has their own opinions. But I think that it is mostly like a political divide. I don't think that it's going to be like we won't be friends or it's going to be rude to each other in school. But I think that there is a very clear divide and it's politically-based. So it's just hard to maintain because everyone has their own opinion.

SB: Well, you and your friends may respectfully disagree, but some of the tone of the debate over masks has been quite harsh. How polarizing has it been in Georgia?

HT: Um, it's hard because when people act like that, you can't argue. You can't change someone's mind when they think that strongly about something. So you kind of have to just go your separate ways.

SB: Have you tried? What have you said to try to change their points of view?

HT: I've sent like links to the CDC, which provide information about how masks are the greatest thing we can do to stop the spread. But then they can also send counter links that say the opposite. So there is so much different information out there that it's hard to really argue or try to change someone's mind about that.

SB: This adds a whole new dimension to stress in high school, doesn't it?

HT: [laughing] Oh, yeah, but it's very interesting getting to see, like, a movement start because of this. Before, it wasn't a big thing and students really weren't talking about like masks and how important it is. But after the petition started, it started to get around a little bit. I think that it started a lot more conversation and like raising awareness, which is really the main thing we wanted to do.

SB: And school’s set to begin again on Friday. What do you think you'll be thinking about when you step back into the halls of your high school?

HT: It'll be very different, especially because we got out in March. And so we haven't been there in so long. It'll be interesting to see, like the percentage of students who do wear masks and who don't wear masks. And what happens when a student walks into a teacher's classroom, and that teacher is high-risk? What are they going to do if that student’s not wearing a mask? It might be a little bit nerve-wracking in the beginning, but I'm sure it'll all work out; eventually, I hope.

SB: How is it that you're so optimistic about this in the middle of this raging storm?

HT: I think that if I were to think negatively about it, nothing good is going to come out of that. You have to be proactive about the bad things that are happening and make something good come out of it. And so I just hope that everyone sees the responsible thing to do. And if it does become mandatory, then they just have to do it. And it'll get better eventually. It can't stay like this forever if we all do the right thing.

SB: Hope, thank you. Good to talk to you.

HT: You too. Thank you.

SB: Goodbye.

HT: Bye.

CH: Hope Terhune is a Grade 12 student in Jefferson, Georgia — which is where we reached her. She's also one of the teenagers behind a petition asking schools in the city to make masks mandatory, when classes resume this coming Friday.

[Music: Tense piano]

Empty stadium baseball mascot

Guest: Dave Raymond

CH: The baseball season is back — but some entire teams are already being benched. Today, Major League Baseball postponed all Miami Marlins games through Sunday, after an outbreak within the team. According to reports, 17 members of the organization have tested positive for COVID-19 over the past few days. Meanwhile, for other teams, the strange season continues. And if empty stadiums and cardboard cutouts of fans are weird for players, they're even weirder for team mascots. Still, even though it's a lonelier gig, mascots like the Phillie Phanatic — aren't letting a lack of crowds bring them down:

ANNOUNCER: Phanatic has some issues with the bases. The Marlins fan who has got his cutout behind home plate. I’m trying to think the good thing is he can entertain himself.

SB: Dave, as you watch the current Phillie Phanatic in action, what did you imagine was going through the mascot's mind as they stepped out to perform in that empty stadium for the first time?

DAVE RAYMOND: Well, I'm certain there is a strange feel to it. But I also know that the personality of the Phanatic is what drives you. You truly become the Phanatic. And when that happens, when that magic happens, it's hard to stump somebody who's who's got that ability to entertain themselves, if you will.

SB: You always hear about feeding off the energy of the crowd. [DR laughs] And then you heard the announcers talking about how this mascot had no friends around and maybe looked a bit sad. How would you respond to that?

DR: Well, you know, sad is not the way I would look at it. It's a challenge and it's a very interesting dynamics to go through. So when you see the Phanatic working with a cutout, and making them smile and laugh doing that, then it's a success.

SB: Wait a minute! He made the cutout laugh and smile?

DR: Well, he didn't make the cutout laugh, but he made the people that were watching him having fun with the cutout laugh because it was consistent with what he would do with a live actual opposing fan. So I remember watching it and just giggling and sharing it on my social media and getting a lot of positive response in the same way. [warm chuckle]

SB: Yeah, he sprayed the cutout with Silly String.

DR: Yeah, and probably popcorn and soda would come next. But we'll wait for that act.

SB: [chuckling] Well, you mention that it's challenging. How much harder does the mascot have to work?

DR: Well, you know, you really said it, any performer feeds off the energy of the crowd. So what the character performer needs to do at that time is recognize that even though he doesn't have the audience to work off of, the television audience is bigger than any audience most likely he'd been performing from. So when that stadium’s full, it's 45 to 48-thousand fans. But just a few seconds of a shot, you're having hundreds of thousands and millions of fans watching you on television. So you need to pretend or know that you are being watched. And those people are at home laughing and responding. So just as if, you know, as a broadcaster, if you're on the air, you're either looking for that red light, or you're looking for the camera light to go on. And you have to assume that you have an engaged audience that is reacting and really being entertained through your work. And it’s not easy. But the really good performers can do that seamlessly. Like, it doesn't even matter. And certainly, you see that one of the best mascots ever in the Phanatic because that whole organization treats him like he's a living, breathing entity anyway.

SB: Well, given the circumstances that baseball is coping with, the questions around safety, are mascots really essential now?

DR: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question, Susan. They are. And that's what I've argued for from the beginning. Think of what we're talking about. We're talking about sports, an entertainment feature in and of itself. Its whole reason for being for sports is for us to be entertained. So what you want to do is broaden your audience base. So what better than to have a Muppet as the representative of your team spirit, so that younger people can get connected through first falling in love with you and then recognizing how beautiful baseball is. And if you wipe away the mascots, oh, well, there's no fans in the stands. Yeah, but the fans are missing that already. Now they're watching from home, looking for some sense of normalcy. And, oh, there's the Phanatic in the stands. There's the mascot in the stands. Fooling around with empty stands isn't that funny. And, you know, a twist of humour is really what we need. We need the power of fun, now more than ever. And you can't just say, well, we can't have fun. We can't be entertaining because we need to be serious and safe. You can do both.

SB: You can do both. Should the mascots wear masks?

DR: [laughing] Well, look, they have as a prop for sure. But think about this. The performer is actually wearing the best mask that could ever be built. I mean, they are protected from that type of spray going out because they have really masks, a full body mask if you think about it. And they're not interacting closely with the players or the umpires; they're not allowed to be on the field. So you talk about, you know, six feet of distance. They're hundreds of feet away from any person. So absolutely, they're safe.

SB: It's not the same story, though, for the players and all the people that support them directly, given the outbreaks that we've seen in Miami and other testing going on. Is this whole thing going to even fly? Is it gonna work?

DR: Yeah. [awkward laugh] Well, I certainly hope it does and. And I'm not hoping against hope. I think sports are essential to our attitudes, to our emotional health. And my hope is they'll have some outbreaks. They'll quarantine. And then for the most part, that we're not going to see widespread outbreaks in these teams, because I really think as human beings, this is what we need.

SB: Do you ever miss being the Phillies mascot?

DR: [chuckling] I miss the fans reaction. I certainly don't miss taking four showers a day.

SB: Really, that's how many showers you have to take? I've wondered about that.

DR: [laughing] Well, you go in costume, you completely soak yourself. You can lose six to eight pounds of water weight, and you're doing an appearance and then getting to the next appearance, and then you're doing the game. And it's hard, hard work. I miss the response to the crowds, but, you know, as a keynote speaker, I'm performing. So I get to exercise that love of working and being in service of an audience. But I missed the Philadelphia fans and 100 per cent unadulterated love that they have for the Phanatic.

SB: Good to talk to you, Dave. Thank you very much.

DR: Thanks, Susan. Bye now.

CH: Dave Raymond is the original Phillie Phanatic, and performed with the Philadelphia Phillies for 16 years. We reached Mr. Raymond in West Grove, Pennsylvania.

[Music: Trumpet]

Part two: Encore: Behrouz Boochani, Vermont skydiver

Encore: Behrouz Boochani

CH: Behrouz Boochani says he can finally plan for the future. But his heart aches for those who still don't have that option. Mr. Boochani, who spent six years detained on Manus Island, has now had his refugee status formally recognized by New Zealand. The Kurdish-Iranian refugee became famous for documenting the pain and suffering of detainees at Australia's controversial offshore processing facility. Through notes sent to an editor via text message, he published a book about his ordeal, entitled "No Friend But The Mountains." It was because of that book that Mr. Boochani was invited to Auckland, New Zealand in November 2019, to attend a literary festival. He didn't know at the time that New Zealand would become his new home. Here's an encore of Carol's conversation with Behrouz Boochani, from November 2019 — hours after he landed in Auckland.

CH: That was Behrouz Boochani speaking with Carol in November 2019, from Auckland, New Zealand. The Kurdish-Iranian author and journalist was recently granted refugee status in New Zealand. He currently lives in Christchurch.

[Music: Funky tune]

HMCS Fredericton

CH: It was a bittersweet homecoming. After six months away from their families, crew members of HMCS Fredericton returned to port today — docking in Halifax this morning. But some of them were missing. Killed in the Cyclone helicopter crash that claimed six lives off the coast of Greece in April. Their absence was keenly felt not only by their fellow crew members, but also by those greeting the ship. Alicia Kibwaa was at the docks with her young son, waiting for her husband. She spoke with CBC's Brett Ruskin.

AK: We're really excited, right? [sound: child coos] The boat’s right down there. He thought the boat was gonna be driving to our house today, so. [both laughing] So, no, we're here at the water to see it.

CH: Alicia Kibwaa's husband was among those returning to Canada on HMCS Fredericton this morning. Six of his fellow Armed Forces members didn't return with him. Speaking with onlookers at the ship's homecoming today, its Commanding Officer, Blair Brown, recognized their absence — and the support of Canadians, following the fatal helicopter accident.

BLAIR BROWN: The loss of our shipmates in the crash of Stalker had a profound impact on all of us. To the families, friends and loved ones of Captain Brendan McDonald. Captain Kevin Hagan. Captain Maxime Miron-Morin, Master Corporal Matthew Cousins, Sublieutenant Matthew Pyke. And Sublieutenant Abbigail Cowbrough. On behalf of the entire ship's company, I express my deepest condolences and sympathies for your loss. The loss of this outstanding group of sailors and aviators was felt by every single one of us onboard, every day. And it's left a space in our hearts that will remain there for all of our days. We would not have been able to complete our mission without the incredible support of our loved ones back home. All Nova Scotians and right across the country. We received so many care packages, cards, from across our nation. That they literally covered the bulkheads, the walls in the ship.

CH: Blair Brown is the Commanding Officer of HMCS Fredericton. The Halifax-class frigate arrived back in Canada this morning.

FOA: I-R-A ends violence

CH: Fifteen years ago today, the Irish Republican Army called on their volunteers to lay down their guns, for good. Thousands of people had died over the violent 30-year conflict between unionists and nationalists. And while a lot of effort had been expended in pursuit of peace, it hadn't yet fully taken hold. Both sides had fallen short of the pledge to disarm, made years earlier in the Good Friday agreement. On July 28th, 2005, As It Happens reached the deputy leader of Sinn Fein, the political wing of the I-R-A, Martin McGuinness. And guest host Maureen Brosnahan asked Mr. McGuinness what led the I-R-A to end its armed campaign.

MARTIN MCGUINNESS: Gerry Adams, on the 6th of April, speaking on behalf of all of us within the leadership of Sinn Fein, made an appeal to the volunteers of the I-R-A. And that opinion was based on our belief that there now exists for the first time in the history of our struggle in Ireland the opportunity to achieve freedom through purely peaceful and democratic methods.

MAUREEN BROSNAHAN: What were those circumstances, and what makes the timeline so, so much better now that you think this can actually be achieved and move forward?

MM: Well, I think we all have to remember that a very important event happened in Ireland in April 1988. That was the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. The Good Friday Agreement has been the most important initiative in Ireland in over 80 years. And so what we tried to do was to remove the obstacles and the excuses that were being used by elements who were opposed to the process. And so our task was to try and bring about a situation where the I-R-A would effectively remove itself from the equation and hopefully liberate the situation to see the Good Friday institutions put back in place.

MB: Now, what have you and other Irish leaders told your volunteer units about how all this will work?

MM: Well, you know, Gerry Adams, whatever he made, his appeals sparked off a huge debate with an ace Republicanism. Within the I-R-A, there was a consultation and discussion process which has now ended. And we've seen the result of that today. And it's been a very powerful contribution, I think, to peace prevention. Within Sinn fein there was also a huge debate. And we were involved in that debate as the leaders of Sinn Fein to try and be in a position to take whatever advantage we could of the I-R-A decision when it came. And of course, that is now calm. So I think that this effectively puts politicians and to the driving seat. And I think what we have to do is continue to chart a course away from conflict.

MB: Are you saying then that all your units have signed on to this and will, in fact, comply with the terms of decommissioning and surrendering all these arms?

MM: Well, I don't have any responsibility for other units; I’m a Sinn Fein leader. But certainly, it is my analysis that whenever Gerry Adams, the leader of Irish Republicanism speaks, and advises on the best way forward, my hope is that the vast, overwhelming majority of I-R-A volunteers will accept the wisdom of his words.

CH: From our archives, that was Sinn Fein leader Martin McGuinness speaking with Maureen Brosnahan, 15 years ago today.

[Music: that song that sounds like it’s set in a Christmas toy store]

Vermont skydiver

Guest: Chris Marckres

CH: When Joe Marszalkowski described the situation to the local news station he said it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. The Vermont soybean farmer was searching for Chris Marckres' prosthetic leg. Now, normally a prosthetic leg wouldn't have been THAT hard to find. Except this one was lost over the weekend when Mr. Marckres — who is a double-amputee — was skydiving. We reached Chris Marckres in Hyde Park, Vermont.

SB: Chris Marckres: This soybean farmer, Joe, was the one who found your prosthetic leg. I understand you two met yesterday. What was that moment like?

CHIRS MARCKRES: It was very emotional. I actually felt after speaking with him for a few moments that I had actually had been reconnected with an old friend. He's very easy to get along with fella. But there was definitely a lot of emotions involved.

SB: Take us back to Saturday. You jumped out of this plane. At what moment did you realize that something went wrong?

CM: I didn't actually realize until maybe 20 seconds before I landed that I had even lost the leg. I think I lost it very early in the jump. And I think my adrenaline was so high that I just never even realized it until I actually looked down and saw I was missing it.

SB: Did it affect your landing? Did you have trouble landing without your leg?

CM: It didn't. It was my first skydive, and it was a tandem jump. So I was attached to an instructor. So he was able to land us perfectly fine.

SB: So once you got on to solid ground, and you knew you were safe, what was going through your mind?

CM: I never doubted my safety anyway. All the faith in the world that my instructor, but once I was on the ground, that's when the emotions kicked in. But they were a little bit different emotions. I was a little more frustrated with myself, you know, for even wearing the legs during the jump because I had the option not to. It's about a 20-thousand dollar bill that I would have been responsible for if we had not found it to replace that. And my quality of life goes down severely once I'm in a wheelchair all the time.

SB: Would your insurance not cover it?

CM: I was dreading making the call. These legs are less than two months old, so I would have had to try to explain to them that I needed a replacement set when they just barely had furnished me with these.

SB: So what would it have meant to you then if you didn't get insurance?

CM: If the insurance hadn’t of covered it, like I said, I would have been in the wheelchair. The biggest problem is I travel, I do kidney dialysis three days a week, and I transport myself. And I would have been out a ride at four o'clock in the morning to get to my dialysis appointments. And that was my major concern.

SB: So you put out a call on Facebook asking for help, searching for this leg.

CM: Yeah, just a basic lost and found post. I only have 120-150 friends maybe on Facebook. In 24 hours, I had 15-hundred shares on my post. The response was overwhelming. My mother had some ties in the town where the skydive happened, and she had people on ATVs that were out searching the next day. I had gone back Sunday to try to search some of the mowed hayfields with my drone. And there was a gentleman that showed up that was training search and rescue dogs. There was a woman that showed up that had police training, and she was willing to help organize anybody that was on the search party. There were people on, like I said, on ATVs, on dirt bikes, just combing the fields.

SB: How did Joe the soybean farmer find your leg?

CM: Joe happened to see one of the shared post on Facebook. His exact words were, I just felt like I needed to do something to help a fellow American. And he got up and went outside and started searching his soybean fields. A few hours in, he had kind of given up and was headed back to his vehicle and caught something out the corner of his eye, and walked right onto it.

SB: Yeah. Joe told New England Cable News that he was grateful to have found it without running it over with a machine this fall during harvest, or having a combine suck it up and destroy it.

CM: My concern was a machine sucking it up and not the damage it would do to the leg, but that most of the metal components of this leg are made of titanium. And I was worried about the damage it would do to somebody harvesting equipment.

SB: What shape was the prosthetic in?

CM: Ninety-five-hundred free fall from the sky, and that leg was in perfect condition. When I met Joe, he handed me the leg. I reached down, put it on and stood there on the leg and visited with him for an hour, got in my truck and drove home with it.

SB: I understand that skydiving was a bit of a bucket list wish for you. What spurred you to jump out of a plane?

CM: In all honesty, I probably, to start with, I have probably the best ex-wife in the entire world. She knew my bucket list. [SB laughs] I've recently been diagnosed with end stage kidney failure, so my bucket list has now become a little bit more of a priority list to me. And she, knowing this, purchased me a gift certificate to skydive for Christmas last year.

SB: And now, I understand your new friend Joe the farmer might join you in a jump.

CM: Yeah, I had offered up a pretty trivial, I mean insignificant, reward on whoever could locate my Leg, and Joe refused it. Flat out, I am not taking any kind of reward. And I kept insisting and finally he agreed. And the deal was he is going to put it towards his... He wants to skydive, and he's going to put it towards his first jump as long as I agreed to go with him and jump the day he jumps as well. So I think Joe and I are probably going to have a pretty good future. as pretty good friends here.

SB: Well, very glad to hear your story. Glad you got your leg back. Thank you for telling us about it.

CM: Well, thank you for your time today also. I appreciate it. And I just want to make sure that as interesting as people may find my end of the story, I hope people realize that Joe really is the rock star, a super hero of the show. There's not even words. I'm starting to get emotional now again. [sniffle] There's not even words to express my gratitude for what he's done.

SB: We're glad it worked out.

CM: Me too.

SB: Thank you very much.

CM: All right. Thank you.

SB: Bye-bye.

CM: Bye.

CH: That was Chris Marckres in Hyde Park, Vermont.

July 28, 2020 episode transcript

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