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The AIH Transcript for February 2, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Vax to grind. With COVID vaccine production set to start in Canada this summer, the industry minister says we can rest a bit easier. But while we wait for that, Canadians are uneasy about the international supply.

CH: Needles in a haystack. A remote First Nation in BC is fuming after a health official came and went without delivering over 200 doses of the vaccine.

CO: A real shot in the arm. Scientists in Russia published research that seems to show their Sputnik vaccine is just as effective as its Western rivals and easier to transport too.

CH: Once more with feeling. On Groundhog Day, we'll talk to an actor from Groundhog Day, Stephen Tobolowsky, who played Ned Ryerson and who suggests ways of relieving the pressure of the day we're all reliving.

CO: Yardi Gras. They can't throw beads, but they are not throwing in the towel. In the absence of parades this Mardi Gras, thousands of people in New Orleans are dressing up their homes as parade floats.

CH: And unfair and square. Ritter Sport produces an all cocoa bar and its traditional square format only to get bent out of shape because it doesn't qualify as chocolate under the strict German law. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that assumes this can be solved through the spirit of cocoa-peration.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Watching Groundhog Day will 'make your heart feel healed,' says actor Stephen Tobolowsky

Canadian vaccine manufacturing: François-Philippe Champagne

Guest: Francois-Philippe Champagne

CH: The announcement was timely, overdue, and premature. Today in Ottawa, the prime minister said that Canada will start cranking out its own COVID-19 vaccines, but not until later this year. Justin Trudeau announced a deal that will see Novavax produce its yet to be approved shots at a yet to be completed National Research Council facility in Montreal. That all can't happen quickly enough. The flow of vaccines into Canada from abroad has slowed to a trickle, and vaccine nationalism is raising questions about the security of our future supplies. Francois-Philippe Champagne is Canada's new industry minister. We reached him in Shawinigan, Quebec.

CO: Minister Champagne, what good will it be to start producing vaccines late this summer when we don't have enough vaccines now?

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, I think those are two different streets. We already have a plan to vaccinate Canadians. And I think the prime minister has been very clear on that. What this is about, I think, is very good news because we've been able to attract one of the leading vaccine manufacturers in Canada -- that's the news. I spoke to the CEO, and he would know the manufacturing capabilities of about seven or eight countries in the world. And when we talk, he said, you know, we chose Canada and now what we're going to do is to accelerate that. So we're building the pillars of future resiliency because we started in March, you will remember we invested in Medicago in Quebec City. We have investment in VIDO-InterVac in Saskatchewan. Acceleron in Vancouver. So what we're doing now is really to build the pillars so whatever comes next, Canadians will be protected.

CO: Okay so this has nothing to do with fulfilling what's needed for the pandemic we're dealing with right now -- for dealing with vaccinating people in Canada now?

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, if we can -- you know, like I said, the plan's supposed to be...we plan the construction for the National Research Council facility where the vaccine is going to be produced with Novavax. So we expect construction to be finished by the end of the summer. Then we have a certification process, what we call the good manufacturing practise, which is a standard in Canada for all bio manufacturing plants. And then we go to production. So, yes, before the end of the year, we'll be producing vaccines in Canada. But we not only have Novavax, that's why I'm saying we have invested in different companies from day one. You will remember that the World Health Organisation said it was a pandemic, I think it was on March 11, already in March twenty, we were announcing investments to make sure that we would be resilient, to make sure that we would have as much of the supply chain in Canada.

CO: But this has been an issue for some time. That the argument has been that if Canada had been seeking a domestic solution, at least in part, if there was a 'Made in Canada' component to it, we would have been way ahead by now -- that there were those who were offering that option, including a company called Providence Therapeutics, we spoke to them last week. They were ready to go into trials in May and couldn't get the federal government to respond to them. Do you think that Ottawa, that the federal government, should have been developing a Made in Canada plan much earlier?

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, we have. And let me just address the company you just referred to, which I like, by the way. But we're talking about scale. We came to finance them in clinical trials. We gave them money also for building what we call a small scale facility in Alberta.

CO: But sir, can I say that when we talked to him, it was only in late fall that that was done. He was asking for funding in May, the 35-million dollars that would have allowed him, he believes, to have been in step almost with Moderna and able to start having production of these in early summer so we could have been ahead of the game. I'm just also pointing out that the United Kingdom invested heavily in this and is producing much of its own vaccine now. Do you think that Canada is behind this now in developing a domestic plan?

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, we didn't start at the same place as the United Kingdom. You know, sadly, I would say the the bio manufacturing has left Canada over a decade. You know, it started in the 1980s where we saw slowly, gradually over a different government that these companies for supply chain and other reasons have been exiting Canada. So what we found is when we saw that in March and really scouted the markets to produce that scale, because there's many small companies in which we have invested. But here what we're talking about is scale, talking about millions of doses, and that is quite a different thing. So my point is that we started from a low base, but thanks to the investment we've made, this is close to the [inaudible] project, is that if you look at the plant like that, whether you start with a greenfield, these plans would take two or three years to build normally. If you look at what we're doing in Royal Mount, we're talking about months with one of the vaccine candidate, which is in line with the production facility. And the company you mentioned, I like them. Actually, we financed a number of them to the National Research Council. But then what you're talking about is scalem to be able to vaccinate a population of 38-million. What you found in Canada when this started is that basically we have no scale in Canada. Yes, we have a number of companies that can do that. Some could be retooled, but some others -- let give you the example, you have [inaudible] in Toronto, but they're producing something extremely important -- they're producing influenza vaccine, they're producing polio vaccine. So some of them you cannot retool because you still need these vaccine. But what we are doing, the investments we've been doing now, will ensure resiliency for the future, for Canada for decades to come. And that's what I think is, is the big news is that Novavax has decided to choose Canada to produce that. And we will continue to work with all the other partners to make sure that they can go to clinical trials. But we have very few of them which are at a stage where they can go into manufacturing mode of scale.

CO: And just finally, beyond the population of Canada, there is much concern about vaccine nationalism and that countries like Canada wanting to take care of their own when we know that we can't be safe unless the world is safe from this, right? So what part of the production that you're talking about will actually be exported to other countries? Have you considered that?

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, I think by being more resilient domestically, we will be able to be -- I would say that as a partner Canada has always been on the international stage. And now with having a domestic bio manufacturing capability, we will be in a much better position not only to protect the health and safety of Canadians -- whatever may come, whether there's another health emergency, we will be better prepared, better equipped. But we will be able also to play the role that Canada has always plays on the international stage and help other people.

CO: We'll leave it there. Minister Champagne. Thank you.

FRANCOIS PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: It's always a pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

CH: Francois-Philippe Champagne is Canada's industry minister. We reached him in Shawinigan, Quebec.

[Music: Hip-hop Music]

Sputnik vaccine

Guest: Naor Bar-Zeev

CH: Just like in the space race, Russia wanted to be first to launch a COVID-19 vaccine. And so the appropriately named Sputnik vaccine was rushed through the labs and into people's arms in record time. Western scientists baulked at the lack of published data and limited clinical trials. But after today, those critics may have to eat their words. In the respected journal The Lancet, Russian researchers claimed their vaccine is 91.6 percent effective. And unlike some other vaccines, Sputnik doesn't have to be stored in extremely cold temperatures. Naor Bar-Zeev is an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins who defended the Russian vaccine effort in its early days. We reached him in Baltimore.

CO: Dr. Bar-Zeev, how did you react when you saw these results that the Sputnik vaccine is over 91 percent effective?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Well, it's very encouraging. The need for vaccine globally is very great. So the more efficacious and safe vaccines we have, the better it is for everybody. And so it was a very welcomed result.

CO: When the Russian government approved the Sputnik vaccine back in August without the usual trials, there was, as you know, a lot of criticism. Your colleagues called it, "really scary." And there was a virologist who said it was "beyond stupid." So do you think that those scientists should be eating their words today?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Look, I think that we're all in a difficult situation. We're in a pandemic. There are deaths occurring every day. And a government's responsibility is to protect its citizens. And we all have to make the wise decisions in the face of uncertainty. So all regulators are doing that. Even the FDA has approved the use of vaccines on the basis of interim analysis, before total completion of clinical trials. So really it's a question of when do we know enough about safety and efficacy to go forward with licensure? My understanding of the licensure that was given in Russia was not full licensure, but emergency use for people at high risk. And in fact, that has happened. And then that allows for the accumulation of further safety data and efficacy data in the context of the large scale Phase three study, which we've seen published now. So the results for that are reassuring.

CO: But you were amongst a very small group of people who defended the early results. What made you less sceptical of the Russian effort?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: We have to separate two issues. I think there's the issue of the wisdom of approving licensure, which is one issue. And then separately, there's the issue of the validity of the data. And I don't think I was in a small group. The data were peer reviewed, they were published, they were open to widespread review by the scientific community. If anything, it was a small group of critics who were very vocal, who tried to put question to the validity of the data, which is all good and welcome and part of the scientific process. We all need to be able to withstand withering scrutiny sometimes. And if our results can withstand that, then we know that we're in a good place. But it's also good to be able to defend it. And I think that the results of this Phase three, strongly support the initial results that we're seeing in the Phase two trial.

CO: Didn't at some point the Russians push it a bit here to get to the early vaccination or get past that second phase? Did they get lucky here or were there not any safety issues?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Look, there's pressure on all of us around the world to produce a vaccine that's safe and efficacious as quickly as possible. We've been able to do that because a very major taxpayer led investment in many of the companies, not all. And that's allowed very large clinical trials to be undertaken. And unfortunately, we've had a very prevalent disease, COVID is widespread and ubiquitous. The one advantage of that is that we're able to accrue cases quickly into clinical trial arms and very quickly determine that there's a difference in incidence -- in other words, in the occurrence of new cases across a vaccine versus the placebo arms. So we've been very fortunate that we've been able to be in a position now where a year after the onset of this pandemic, we have a range of efficacious and safe vaccines. The pressure is on, that's for sure, and so it should be because thousands of people are dying around the world every day. But it needs to be done safely and it needs to be done wisely. And that's the balance that all regulators have to face. And I'm thankful that I'm not in their position to have to make these decisions under difficult circumstances.

CO: One of the decisions they made in Russia was to name this vaccine, the Sputnik, which is an intentional reference to the space race. And so we know there is a lot of politics involved. There's a lot of vaccine nationalism -- it is a big issue. Is there a problem with vaccines being turned into a kind of space race between Russia and the West?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Look, the name doesn't interest me. The real issue is the substantive one. Do we have enough vaccine for the global demand? We need a lot of vaccine to go around. It's not about winning a race. It's not about being the first. It's about participating in a global effort to have enough products so that we can protect the people who need to be protected. Of course, there's real politics, of course, there are economic considerations, there are political considerations. That's inevitable because we live in a real world. We don't live in a happy, everybody dancing around holding hands. We live in a reality. But the most important thing is that all groups around the world are conducting excellent science, and good scrutiny -- by public scrutiny and regulatory scrutiny and scientific scrutiny -- and producing vaccines that are safe and that hopefully will reduce disease.

CO: There's no question that many Western countries were shunning this Russian vaccine. Now, though, do you think that they might try and get their hands on it?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: I think the bottom line is you have to look at the science. Science always has to stand up to scrutiny. Every one of the vaccine manufacturers has withstood peer review and all have faced criticism one way or another, whether about the funding, whether about the conduct of the trials, whether there was complete adherence to trial protocols, whether about the licensure. The fact that people are criticising one another means that the science will be of a high quality. There's nothing special about the Russian groups that were more subject to criticism. All groups have been subject to criticism, and so it should be. And it's up to the scientific community and the onus of responsibility on the scientific community to produce safe vaccines that work. And not to say, believe us, we're doctors or believe us, we're scientists -- we have to stand up to scrutiny from the public and we have to stand up to scrutiny from one another. That's the whole basis of science and the basis of peer review.

CO: Would you take a vaccine, the Sputnik vaccine? Would you see it given to your family?

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Absolutely. I would. I would take any of the licenced or any of the approved products that have gone through Phase three evaluation if they are shown to be safe and efficacious.

CO: Dr. Bar-Zeev thank you.

NAOR BAR ZEEV: Thank you very much.

CH: Naor Bar Zeev is an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. We reached him in Baltimore.

[Music: Bass Music]

Update: The Bachelorette in Jasper

CH: And now an update on a story we told you last week -- that the next season of the reality show The Bachelorette was coming to Jasper, Alberta. Well, it appears the bloom is off the rose. According to Steve Carbone, a reality TV insider, Canada's new quarantine restrictions have changed the producers plans and Jasper is out. Bob Covey might be relieved and disappointed all at once. The editor of The Jasper Local told Carol he wasn't the biggest fan of the show where a bunch of dudes compete for one woman's heart. But he was a fan of Jasper being put on the map in a big way. The Bachelorette is reportedly still keen to film in a cold weather location. So Mr. Covey's sage advice to the show's contestants still stands: bring warm boots. And we should add, leave the boat shoes at home.

[Music: Synth Music]

Groundhog Day movie

Guest: Stephen Tobolowsky

[MUSIC PLAYS: I GOT YOU, BABE by SONNY & CHER]

CH: What would you do if you were stuck in one place and every day was the same and nothing you did mattered? Sorry to get so real and dark, but those are Phil Connors', not mine. I mean, Phil Connors, as played by Bill Murray in the 1993 classic Groundhog Day, which in some ways is kind of like a comedy version of the pandemic we're living through. Every day, Phil wakes up and it's February 2nd -- over and over and over again. Every morning he hears that Sonny and Cher song on the radio and every day he runs into life insurance salesman Ned Ryerson.

VOICE 1: Do you have life insurance? Because if you do, you could always use a little more. Am I right or am I right or am I right? Right! Right! Right!

VOICE 2: Ned, I would love to stand here and talk with you, but I'm not going to. [Laughter].

VOICE 1: Hey, that's all right. I'll walk with you. You know, whenever I see an opportunity now, I charge it like a full Ned -- the bull. That's me now. Tell me, have you ever heard of a single premium life? Because I think that really could be the ticket for you. [Hit by something] (In pain) Oh, God! It is so good to see you. What are you doing for dinner?

CH: That was Ned Ryerson, the persistent insurance salesman played by Stephen Tobolowsky in Groundhog Day. 28 years after that film came out, and it is as pertinent and prescient as ever. We reached Stephen Tobolowsky in Los Angeles.

CO: Stephen, I'm seeing pictures of you, from now, and you look no different than you did almost 30 years ago, so maybe you are still living Groundhog Day.

STEPHEN TOBOLOWSKY: [Laughs] It could be. The secret is this, when you lose your hair early in life and you're nearsighted and need glasses, you're bald and have glasses for decades and it kind of becomes your look.

CO: Did you ever think that this movie -- I mean, it was already a cult classic, Groundhog Day, before it became a cult classic during this pandemic -- could you ever have imagined that it would be the description of everyone's lives at some point?

ST: No, no. And we never expected anything from Groundhog Day, let alone be the perfect description of life during the pandemic. For some reason, Groundhog Day -- I have been asked to speak, let's see for 12-step programs [laughter] person, Buddhist groups. The Oakland Raiders football team flew me up to Oakland because they used Groundhog Day as a training film for their football team.

CO: What did people get out of the movie that they wanted to talk to you about?

ST: I think the movie makes your heart feel healed in a way. And a lot of reason is because of the arc of Bill Murray's character in that he is a seriously flawed man who is beaten into submission by the repetition of time. And I was at a charity event with Harold Ramis, I'm thinking, about 15 years ago and I said, "Harold, how long is Bill really trapped in time?" And Harold looked at me without a beat, said "10,000 years." [Laughter] And I said "10,000 years?!" And he said, "Well, Stephen, I wanted to base it on the Buddhist idea that it takes 10,000 years to perfect the human soul." And that is what Groundhog Day is about, it is about the perfection of our souls.

CO: For anyone who has not Groundhog Day -- and that would be very disappointing if there are those who haven't -- but the idea that people have now is they use the meme, they think it's a horror film and not a comedy because of what they're living. But as you point out, what happens is that there is this redemption, isn't there, at the end?

ST: There is. And there are a lot of feel good movies that are kind of general feel good in that there is a love completion angle to the story that our leading characters fall in love or whatever. Who cares? We all know that love is fickle. But what we really learn in Groundhog Day is the reason why Bill Murray's character, Phil Connors changes is because over time he realises when he is in service to others is when the healing process starts. Another lesson of Groundhog Day is we have to let go of what we have no control over, which is what? A 12 step program.

CO: Now, this wisdom, that you are describing, is this something that you acquired because you have thought so much about what Groundhog Day means?

ST: I think it's just an amalgam. When you're an actor, you end up learning a lot of different things about subjects you never thought you would learn about, whether it's the Enlightenment or Voltaire. I have sat in theatres, and I'm sure you have too Carol, where you watch and the actors are doing something silly and you laugh, laugh, laugh. And then you say to your friend in the theatre, "Well, that was stupid." What happens in Groundhog Day is you laugh and you don't go, "Well, that was stupid." You go, "Ain't it the truth?" There's nothing funnier than recognition of the truth.

CO: How would Ned Ryerson deal with a pandemic, do you think? Heaven help his spouse or his roommates.

ST: Listen, I have an inside line on this because I have a dear friend of mine who sells insurance very much like Ned Ryerson. I called him up the other day. He and his wife are holding up in Maine. They said living in Maine is just like being in quarantine. [Laughter] There's nowhere to go. And I said, "So, Richard, how are you doing in the pandemic?" He goes "It's great, Stephen! I've never done so much business. The insurance business is booming when it's bad news, for one. It's not bad news for the other." And so he's having a great time.

CO: It's not a spoiler to say that your character, Ned Ryerson, is this annoying insurance salesman who is the bane of Bill Murray's existence until he has his epiphany. Now, just for people who are still trapped in Groundhog Day because of this pandemic, what can you say to convince people to reassure them that there will be a February 3rd? How do they get to February 3rd?

ST: Okay. I think the essence of your question is how do we get out of this? And I think is with learning and learning something new and learning something new that you love, and you can do that at home and you could do that in a pandemic. Like let's say you hate opera, you know, maybe say, "You know what I'm going to do this morning? I'm going to listen to Rigoletto. And I know I hate it, I know I'm going to hate it. It's stupid. I'm going to listen to it." And then you go like, "Oh this is good." I had that epiphany when I was working on a job that was about an hour and a half away from Los Angeles and I had to drive. I had to drive in the traffic. So it could take anywhere from an hour and a half to two to three hours. And so I thought I will listen to the Opera Channel because I can't stand opera. And by the end of that job, I thought, I've reached February 3rd. [Laughter] I can't wait to see an opera now. I love opera. I understand now what it's about. I missed the idea of what makes opera great. And that is when our human emotions become so intense and we've all felt that especially during the pandemic, all you can do is sing.

CO: So find something to love, find some joy in your life, and you'll get to February 3rd.

ST: Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. 100 percent.

CO: Stephen, it's really February 3rd to talk to you. Thank you. [Laughter]

ST: [Laughter] My pleasure.

CO: Take care. Bye bye.

ST: Bye bye.

CH: Long before Stephen Tobolowsky became a bona fide opera fan, he portrayed the very annoying Ned Ryerson in the 1993 classic Groundhog Day. We reached him in Los Angeles. And he sent us some photos of his Groundhog Day quarantine life, we put them up on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Part 2: First Nation COVID vaccines pulled

First Nation COVID vaccines pulled

Guest: Kirsten Milton

CH: Officials from Vancouver Coastal Health have apologised to a remote B.C. First Nation after they arrived with a much needed batch of COVID vaccines and then took them back. CBC reporter Angela Sterritt reported today that medical health officer Dr. John Harding administered fewer than 100 doses to the people of the Nuxalk Nation in Bella Coola, B.C. Then citing communications and logistics issues, he abruptly left -- taking 200 doses with him. People there are also upset that Dr. Harding referred to the vaccines in an email as a "gift" to the Nation. Kirsten Milton is the Nuxalk Nation's director of health. We reached her in Bella Coola, B.C.

CO: Ms. Milton, do you accept Vancouver Coastal Health's apology to your community?

KIRSTEN MILTON: I don't think that's up to me to accept the apology. I think that needs to go to our high council leadership.

CO: What do you think that the B.C. Vancouver Coastal Health, should apologise for?

KM: The way that the initial vaccine rolled out, the language that was used by some of the physicians and, yeah, the terminology that they were using is giving us a gift of vaccinations. I think that was really disrespectful. As well as having to call RCMP escort to leave our community. I think it was completely disrespectful, uncalled for, and didn't need to happen like that.

CO: I want to get to that part of it. But let's just begin with what went wrong at the beginning. Your understanding is that they were to come and deliver these vaccine doses. Can you just tell us a bit about what happened?

KM: Yeah, for sure. We were notified that we would be receiving an initial round of vaccine and had to come up with a priority list. Our original priority list included elder 65 and up on-reserve and our number came up to about 110 vaccines. VCH quickly matched that with also requesting one 110 vaccines for their off-reserve elders.

CO: And so was that your understanding as to how it was to roll out?

KM: Yes. Once Dr. John Harding and the nurse arrived in community, they then let us know verbally that they had an additional 360 vaccines and that we needed to have a plan as to how they would be used for Nuxalk.

CO: What went wrong? I mean, Dr. Harding said you needed to have a plan for this roll-out, using these vaccines within 24 hours. And he says you missed that deadline. What can you tell us about that?

KM: I'm not sure what went wrong for the decision to be reversed. We had a solidified plan that was already given. They verbally kept connecting with us, stating we needed to have a plan, we needed to have a meeting to discuss the additional vaccines. And we kept saying, well, we'll still continue with our priority list. We've only completed the one phase of elders. We still have our frontline health care and our EOC and our immunocompromised to go through. We were given a deadline that Thursday, I was given an email by Dr, Harding at 5:21 that evening, that by the next day, that Friday at 10, I had to have a plan submitted to him. I sent out my email at 10. I don't think they received it till 10:02 on their end. By noon that day, we were then notified that all the vaccines were going to leave with him back to Vancouver.

CO: Because you'd missed the deadline by the two minutes it took for the transmission to go through?

KM: Yes, well, from my understanding, from the corresponding emails after was he did not receive a plan. My plan clearly stated what we were going to use the additional doses for. He didn't give an indication of how he wanted the plan to be delivered and what he wanted to be included in that plan. So I sent out my email stating we're still going to work through the priority list, which has not been completed yet.

CO: And you said that there was an RCMP escort. What's that about?

KM: Yes. So during all of this, our executive director was not available. So when she was in the office, we had to give her a quick high level debrief of all that had transpired. She connected with our Nuxalk leadership council, our elected council. And they directed her to send an email stating we were disappointed in the lack of communications, the fact that we were left out of the planning stages, and that Nuxalk Nation leadership is demanding 250 out of 360 doses to stay with us. And from that email, we were notified that the language was hostile that they felt they needed to call an RCMP escort to take him from the clinic to the airport. And Dr. Peimer stated on the phone that they were worried for their safety and that we would possibly be trying to steal back vaccines.

CO: Good heavens. And has he responded to this? Has anyone cleared up what he intended by this?

KM: No, we have not had any communications from our local VCH.

CO: And then what is this that, you mentioned also, he described this is a gift to your Nation. Tell us about that.

KM: We're extremely disappointed to see that language in the emails. He mentioned it being a gift on multiple occasions. But really using that term of a gift is what pushed us forward for not letting that go. Not just forgetting about this situation. Public health isn't a gift. So that was disappointing for us to hear him use that language.

CO: But at the same time, your community missed out on more than 200 extra vaccine doses that could have stayed in the community, you wanted them to stay, you could have administered them. What is having those vaccines taken back -- what does that mean for your community?

KM: We still continue to live at risk without it. We have such a limited access to primary health care here for our on-reserve members. We face a lot of health issues, overcrowding, poverty. We were experiencing an active outbreak and our numbers were climbing up into the 60s. So we were really concerned about not vaccinating our priority list. We still haven't done our immunocompromised as well as our frontline health care staff.

CO: We have heard and we have covered instances of racism in the health care system, people coming forward, people talking about what they're encountering. Would you regard what happened as racist?

KM: Yes. And it shows a privilege that we don't have in our community in terms of health care. It highlights that difference in that gap so much. You know, we haven't even completed that one 110 original list yet because all the rest of the vaccines have been taken out of here. So it's just disappointing for me to have to go back to the rest of the elders and to my health staff to say, unfortunately, we do not get access to any more vaccines until FNHA does their community wide rollouts.

CO: I know CBC reporter Angela Sterritt will continue to cover this and we will continue to follow the fallout from this. Ms. Milton I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KM: Thank you so much.

CH: Kirstin Milton is the director of health for the Nuxalk Nation in Bella Coola, British Columbia.

[Music: Calm Music]

Captain Sir Tom Moore

CH: He became a hero and he took it in stride. Captain Sir Tom Moore, a symbol of hope for the U.K. during the early months of the pandemic, has died after contracting COVID-19. He was 100 years old last April, when he was 99, he began a campaign to raise money for British health care workers, vowing to walk 100 laps around his garden by his 100th birthday. He succeeded in reaching that goal, and he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams at raising money. He'd hoped people would donate about a thousand pounds or so -- he would raise just shy of 33-million pounds. His courage and indomitability made him an international celebrity and led to official recognition from the queen -- last July, he was knighted. Here as Captain Sir Tom Moore speaking with the BBC last May after learning of his impending knighthood.

CAPTAIN SIR TOM MOORE: If you give me this honour, it is so outstanding that I really can't say how different I feel. But I certainly feel that I've been given a very outstanding honour by the Queen and the prime minister. And I thank them all very much. I'm certainly delighted. And I am overawed by the fact that this has happened to me.

REPORTER: And I understand it, you knew because a letter arrived at home. When you first saw that letter, what did you think?

CAPTAIN SIR TOM MOORE: [Chuckles] I thought, this can't be true. I've always said this won't happen. And now it appears it actually happened. But I certainly would never anticipated that that letter would arrive for me.

REPORTER: And we're not sure entirely when you'll actually get to receive this honour, hopefully from the Queen herself. What sort of a surprise will that be and what a day that will be for you and the family?

CAPTAIN SIR TOM MOORE: I am looking forward to that. I hope she's not very heavy handed with the sword [laughter] by then I might be rather a poor old weak soul.

CH: That was Captain Sir Tom Moore speaking to the BBC about his impending knighthood in May of 2020. Today, Captain Moore's family announced his death on Twitter, posting a picture of him behind his world famous walker.

[Music: Synth Music]

Mardi Gras house floats

Guest: Megan Boudreaux

CH: It should be the most wonderful time of the year in New Orleans, Mardi Gras. But giant parades with thousands of friendly people on the street aren't exactly in the cards right now. When the festivities were cancelled, Megan Boudreaux came up with a more COVID friendly version. She called on her neighbours to decorate their homes instead. Ms. Boudreaux is the founder of Crew of House Floats, and we reached her in New Orleans.

CO: Megan, can you describe for us what your house float looks like?

MEGAN BOUDREAUX: My house float is called the USS House Float, and we've created a whole facade on the porch that looks like the side of a ship and the ocean with a couple of life preservers and one very large oversized ship's wheel. [Chuckles]

CO: Okay, so now your neighbours are doing the same thing. Can you describe what you're seeing cropping up in the neighbourhood?

MB: In my neighbourhood, we settled on a theme of staycation paradise. And so there's lots of houses with Tiki and Aloha, kind of tropical themes. We've got a street that runs through my neighbourhood that's called Bermuda Street. And across from that is a triangle shaped park. So there's a whole block of folks who've done a Bermuda Triangle theme for their street that's really neat.

CO: This spirit of Mardi Gras, the parade, spirit has not just confined to your neighbourhood, but it's gone everywhere, right? Not just New Orleans. How far flung is this project at this point?

MB: Well, most of our participants are in the greater New Orleans area, and we've got about 3000 total. But that includes folks who are all over the United States, as far away as Alaska. And we do have a few international participants. We've got some folks in the U.K., we have a house in Australia, and we even have somebody who's turned their apartment door into a float, so to speak, in Abu Dhabi.

CO: Okay. So they are connecting, how? Are they sending photographs? Are they posting them someplace?

MB: We have a map on our website that has the locations of all the different house floats. And a lot of folks have submitted photographs. And then, of course, people are posting all over social media and there's just pictures pouring in from all over. It's really great.

CO: You know, just go back to how you came up with this idea or how this idea came to be, which was after the Mardi Gras parades were cancelled because of the coronavirus. Just tell us how you got started. What was your idea?

MB: The announcement came from the mayor's office that parades would be cancelled, they wouldn't be given permits. And I made a comment on Twitter that, "Well, I'll just decorate my house and I'll throw some beads and stuff at my neighbours." And so I started to get my neighbours involved. But even just within a couple of days, I had folks from all over the city and I had interest even from outside of New Orleans. It just exploded exponentially over the course of a couple of weeks. And now we've got 13,000 people in the Facebook group, you know, interested in house floats.

CO: We are going to post some pictures online. But just so people understand, this isn't kind of, I don't know, just some papers stuck on windows and simple Halloween decorations -- we're talking about extremely elaborate, well painted, gorgeously designed floats, right?

MB: Yes. We have a lot of creative people who have handmade their own decorations. It's very common to see people out with the spray paint and some plywood and some cardboard boxes putting together a float. And people have gotten really creative with that. But we also have people who have been hiring the float artists and professional artists around the city to decorate their homes. So there are very elaborate designs that look like they could roll down a street on St. Charles for a real parade. There are dinosaurs on St. Charles Avenue. It's really incredible.

CO: They don't even look like houses anymore, do they?

MB: Some of them don't look like houses. Some of it, like I said, looks like you could hook a tractor up to it and it could roll down the street.

CO: Do you have a favourite?

MB: It is so hard to choose. There are so many really good clever ones. There's one close to me that's based on Little Shop of Horrors. And it's got kind of all the running jokes of 2020. There's a flaming dumpster fire and there's toilet paper shortages and murder hornets. [Laughter] All the things that we can kind of laugh about now.

CO: Okay, so what now happens because Fat Tuesday is February 16th, what gets launched at that point?

MB: Well, we're kind of giving people the next two weeks as an opportunity to tour the city, drive around and see what's out there. You know, of course, we're asking people if they are out and about to please wear masks and keep their space, keep the parade rolling, so to speak. And then on Mardi Gras Day, we're just encouraging folks to parade at home, to celebrate Mardi Gras on their house float, and they may have no contact ways to distribute throws to people. But we really want people to stay close to home so that we don't have the big Mardi Gras crowds this year.

CO: Because that was a bit of a disaster last year, wasn't it?

MB: In retrospect, yes. Unfortunately, that seemed to have hit things off. And the pandemic restrictions have really hit New Orleans hard -- we are tourist based economy and it's been really difficult over the last year. And so we're really hoping we can get through this and hopefully be back to normal next year.

CO: Okay. So what's that going to be like when you get back to normal next year? Can you imagine the party that's going to take place?

MB: [Laughter] I imagine it will be even more cathartic than just building a house float. People are very very eager to get back to music on the streets. And everybody I know is just really looking forward to hugging their friends and hanging out in a big crowd and going out to the bars and doing what we usually do. But until then, we'll try and do things safely from a distance.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. As I say, we're going to share some of these images because they're wonderful floats. Megan it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

MB: Thank you. Have a good one.

CH: Megan Boudreaux is the founder of the Crew of House Floats. She's in New Orleans. And we've posted some photos of the houses on Twitter: @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music: Brass Music]

Cacao y Nada

CH: Ritter Sport chocolate bars are square. And a few years ago, the company made some videos to elaborate on the whole square thing and its slogan Happiness Squared.

VOICE 1: [SOUNDCLIP: (Music Plays) What is happiness squared? A mystery. A puzzle. A combination of words that leads one to reflect on the nature of happiness -- in a way, the word by itself does not.]

CH: (Confused) What? No. No, that doesn't help at all. Let's try this other video.

VOICE 1: [SOUNDCLIP: (Music Plays) What is happiness squared? It's an emotion tied to a perfect unit of geometry. In this case, it's biting into that perfect square of chocolate. You begin to chew the thick goodness, starting to feel the cocoa mass melting over your tongue.]

CH: Ew! Stop. I don't want to hear about thick goodness. I want you to explain about the square...oh fine, I'll do it. In 1926, Clara Ritter had an idea to make a square chocolate bar, that would fit into a man's sport jacket pocket without breaking. RitterSport was a huge success and around the world, men stylishly packed their pockets with "thick goodness." Now Ritter Sport has a new square bar Cacao y Nada -- one 100 percent cocoa sweetened with cocoa juice rather than sugar. Sounds about as pure as chocolate can get. And yet, despite its sweetness, the German government is getting salty about it. Under Germany's strict chocolate laws, in order to be labelled chocolate, your product must contain cocoa solids, cocoa powder, cocoa butter and sugar, which disqualifies the Cacao y Nada bar, even though it contains only cocoa ingredients -- hence the name "cocoa and nothing." The CEO of Ritter Sport harrumphs, 'It is absurd that a chocolate, which is totally made out of cocoa and does not need any added sugar, cannot be called chocolate.' It seems like he's right, so hopefully they can come to some kind of agreement and get things all squared away.

[Music: Goblet Drum]

AOC Experience

CH: Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez says she feels lucky to be alive. In an hour-long Instagram post last night, the Democratic congresswoman gave a play-by-play of how things unfolded on January 6th, the day thousands of angry Trump supporters stormed Capitol Hill. Rioters ransacked congressional offices and sent lawmakers into hiding. A police officer died of the injuries he sustained and a woman was shot and killed. All in all, five people died because of the storming of the Capitol. And for Ms. Ocasio-Cortez it reopened old wounds. She spoke of the trauma of hiding in her office, hearing banging outside her door, and of how quickly people tried to brush the event aside -- triggering memories of the time she was sexually assaulted.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ: All of a sudden, I hear: (MAKES LOUD SOUND) Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, on my door. And then I hear these huge violent bangs on my door -- and then every door going into my office. Just (MAKES LOUD SOUND) bang, bang, bang, bang, like someone was trying to break the door down. And there were no yells, no one saying who they were, nobody identifying themselves. And just (MAKES LOUD SOUND) boom, boom, boom. And I just get up like this and I run over, I run back into my office. I slam my door, there's another kind of like back area to my office and I open it and there's a closet and a bathroom. And I jump into my bathroom and I close the door and I just keep hearing is (MAKES LOUD SOUND) bang, bang, bang. And I jump into my bathroom and I close the door. And then I realised that the bathroom was the wrong choice. I should have jumped into the closet. And so I start opening the door to the bathroom when all of a sudden I hear that whoever was trying to get inside got into my office. And then I realised that it's too late. That it's too late for me to get into the closet and then all of a sudden I hear my staffer yell out, "Hey! Hey! Hey! It's okay, come out." And I come out and this man is a Capitol Police officer. And so all of this is to say is that my story is just one story. It's not the only story, nor is it anywhere close to the central story. But the reason why I think it's important to share is because so many of the people who helped perpetrate and who take responsibility for what happened in the capital are trying to tell us all to move on. And they're trying to tell us to forget about what happened. They're trying to tell us that it wasn't a big deal. They're trying to tell us to move on. We cannot move on without accountability. We cannot heal without accountability. The reason I say this and the reason I'm getting emotional in this moment is because these folks who tell us to move on, (voice softens) that it's not a big deal, that we should forget what's happened or even telling us to apologise -- these are the same tactics of abusers. And I'm a survivor of sexual assault. (Chokes up) And I haven't told many people that in my life. But when we go through trauma, trauma compounds on each other. So when I see a party who cheered on violence, violence that killed five -- maybe now six people, a second Capitol police officer took their life in the aftermath of the attack this past week -- when we are still losing people, when we don't know how many people are going to develop PTSD after what happened. These people are just trying to tell us, 'It's not a big deal.'

CH: That was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez describing her experience when rioters stormed Capitol Hill on January 6th.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Part 3: British cathedral delivers 2-in-1 shot with vaccine and live organ music

Alberta coal mining restrictions

Guest: Craig Snodgrass

CH: When Alberta's provincial government rescinded its coal development policy last June, Craig Snodgrass says he didn't really notice. But now the High River mayor says he's realised that was by design. The 44 year old policy had long prohibited open pit coal mining in Alberta's Rocky Mountains and their foothills. And Mayor Snodgrass says his municipality and a number of others want those restrictions restored. Yesterday, High River City Council passed a resolution calling for a stop to all coal exploration on the Rockies eastern Alberta slopes, and sent a letter to other Alberta mayors asking them to join the campaign. We reached Mayor Craig Snodgrass in High River, Alberta.

CO: Mayor Snodgrass, this provincial policy on coal development was rescinded months ago. Why has it taken you this long to speak out?

CRAIG SNODGRASS: [Chuckles] Well, it's tough to know about it when they hide it. And that's exactly what's happened is, is they did this without any public consultation or telling absolutely anybody, including First Nations and stakeholders. So for those of us that don't have land down there and it's very hard to know these things are happening.

CO: And just before we get into what you have been able to find out, what's at stake? What do people in the High River area worry will happen when this policy is no longer in place?

CS: Well, what the policy did was defined where and how coal mining happens on the eastern slopes in Alberta. And so the resentment of that policy takes that away. So when we're looking at it directly from a High River standpoint, the Highwood River that runs through town that's so famous from the flood in 2013, the headwaters are in Category two lands in the Kananaskis area. So with the removal of this policy, it has opened up that whole area to mountaintop removal coal mining techniques, not just the removal of the mountains, but the dangers for contamination of selenium and other chemicals in our water supply is of high level concern for us in High River.

CO: We should just point out that this coal development policy is decades old. This was instated in 1976. What interest is there, do you understand, in being able to access that coal?

CS: Well there's only one interest and that's directly with the government of Alberta, led by Premier Jason Kenney, to have some level of success that he can point to with his election promise of improving the economy in Alberta. And this is a real sneaky, low hanging fruit. And they went down and sold this idea to the Australian coal miners. And now we have foreign interests coming back into Canada and specifically into Alberta. But what's actually happening is Albertans are saying, "Okay, woah woah woah you didn't say anything about this during the election that you were going to tear our mountains apart to do that."

CO: And you mentioned the Australian mining companies -- our CBC colleagues in Calgary, spoke with one of those companies about the change last week. I just want to play a clip from that conversation. So here's some of what Montem Resources Ltd., the CEO there, Peter Doyle, told the Calgary Eyeopener.

PETER DOYLE: Metallurgical coal or coking coal or steel making coal is a rare resource that will bring prosperity to local communities and to the Alberta and federal government, including royalties and taxes. So the 10th Mountain Mine should operate for 14 years. The royalty rates in Alberta start at one per cent. And when you have paid back your capital, that royalty rate goes to 13 per cent -- provincial and federal taxes on top of that and 190 jobs, I think it is potentially lost in this argument and people saying these things are not very valuable, they're hugely valuable.

CO: All right. And that was Peter Doyle. He is speaking of, as you mentioned, those words, metallurgical coal -- very very valuable. The world needs this, it is only so many places you can get it. You've got it. So super profitable industry could bring prosperity. What's your response to Mr. Doyle?

CS: Oh, super profitable industry to the coal companies. The royalties that he's speaking of are pennies in comparison to the destruction that it takes. So the grassy mountain mine has estimated at 1.7-billion dollars in royalties over the lifespan of the mine, which is approximately 23-25 years. It's only like 50-million dollars a year for Alberta. Well, that's not even on the radar, not even close to being good enough.

CO: So I know you have tried to get meetings. You now have, I think, one with Alberta's energy minister, Sonya Savage, later this week -- after in the letter you wrote said that you had for some time not getting any response at all. They have not approved any mines at this point. There has been exploration and licence applications. But what are you asking the government to do at this point?

CS: Well, Number 1) stop the exploration going on right now because damage that's caused is unbelievable -- on one ridge that goes six kilometres of roads built. So where the town of High River and where we have made our motions is to request that Premier Kenney puts an immediate stop to work order on all exploration taking place on the eastern slopes, regardless of what category it's in, because we don't trust anything as to what's going on with this government right now in regards to this coal.

CO: I don't need to tell you that Alberta has some problems with industry, with what's happening with oil and gas, and that Jason Kenney has been saying many times that his back is to a wall, he needs to develop Alberta. A lot of people in High River area voted for Jason Kenney. Do you think they support what he's doing?

CS: No, no, that's very clear. The feedback that I've gotten and it's been a lot -- I can't find an email or anything that goes directly against what I'm saying and says, "No, Premier Kenney is doing the right thing. This is awesome." And it should not matter to anybody how you voted. You can't stick with your colour and your party lines. You have to take this for what the actual reality is that's happening, that this is not right. This is not how we govern in Alberta. This is not how we govern in Canada.

CO: Mayor Snodgrass we will leave it there and we will be following what happens. Thank you so much.

CS: No problem. Thanks very much for doing this, Carol.

CH: Craig Snodgrass is the mayor of High River, Alberta. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Kim Asmussen

CH: It's impressive enough from ground level, but if you can get airborne, it'll really blow your mind. Retired principal and avid snowshoer Kim Asmussen has taken up art, and he did not start small. His canvases are frozen lakes and snow covered fields in Schreiber, Ontario -- about 200 kilometres from Thunder Bay. His brushes are his snowshoes and his ski poles. And with those few simple elements, fresh snow, good light and a lot of space, Mr. Asmussen is creating large-scale outdoor artworks.

KIM ASMUSSEN: I feel like the time is anywhere from two hours, all the way up to -- the last one I did was three days. And it is sort of funny that we had done the one in Rongie Lake, and if you drive up to it, you look and say, "That's not very big." But there was 32 kilometres of hiking that went into that. we just ended going back and forth quite a bit. So you measure something and you have to go back and grab the tape measure, measure it again, and keep going on -- so kilometres actually goes up quite a bit. And then if you're doing a lot of packing, what I mean by packing or shading is you might take one area and totally pack it, where as in another area you might have parallel lines. You keep moving in on it. And the parallel lines are sort of a neat thing. You don't step off the line and start walking a parallel line. What you do is you drag a stick or ski pole beside you and that sets up the line for the next parallel line. And then when you sort of step over into that line that you just made with the pole and you drag your pole again. So that's how you keep your lines parallel.

OLIVIA LEVESQUE: Why do you like doing this so much? What's so fun about it for you?

KIM ASMUSSEN: I think it's just a challenge of, one, getting outside -- I am an outdoors type of person. A lot of it is our geometric shapes, so that part of my brain seems to operate quite well. I like just designing stuff and see if I can do it. And it's sort of nice. Unfortunately, because of COVID, we can't to have more than -- well we have a drone operator and we can only have four people because we can't have gatherings of more than five. But it's a bit social thing. And you'll be going by and you'll sit and chit chat with someone as you're walking by or you're chatting with them. So it's just a nice social thing also. We're trying to do one in the ball field in Schreiber. And, you know, a lot of people enjoy just driving by -- because we're in the COVID situation, just for someone to drive by and have that litter "Oh (feeling surprised)" in their brain, when they go by, it's sort of nice for the townsfolk.

CH: That was snowshoe artist Kim Asmussen speaking with CBC reporter Olivia Levesque. He's using snowshoes and ski poles to create stunning large scale designs in northern Ontario. And we have tweeted the results of his fancy footwork: @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music: Bluegrass Music]

Cathedral organist

Guest: John Challenger

CH: The rush to vaccinate people against COVID-19 has clinics springing up in all kinds of unlikely places - anywhere large and well ventilated will do. So around the world stadiums, theatres, museums and libraries have all been converted into vaccination hubs. And in Salisbury, England, one such centre is offering people more than just immunity. [MUSIC PLAYS: Air in D by Bach being played on an organ] That is the sound of Salisbury Cathedral's massive Father Willis Organ playing Bach's "Air in D" for people awaiting their COVID-19 vaccines. John Challenger is the man playing it. He's the cathedral's assistant music director and he's been accompanying clinics twice a week. We reached him in Salisbury, England.

CO: John, I know you have played for many interesting audiences, but did you ever imagine that you'd be performing for a vaccination clinic?

JOHN CHALLENGER: If you'd asked me that about a year ago, I wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about. It's been the most incredible thing, yeah. And a rather unusual audience, as you say.

CO: Can you just paint the picture of what unfolds in this clinic as you are accompanying it?

JC: It's bizarre, if I'm honest with you. It's the most fantastic use of the building. The Salisbury Cathedral is an enormous early English Gothic cathedral with lots of different spaces in which is very useful at the moment. We have spaces for queuing, spaces for vaccinating, and spaces for people to sit afterwards. And I'm playing the organ from the organ loft, which is miles away from all these activities. And there's a wonderful feeling of the community coming together and of excitement and yeah, bringing people together, which has been absent for the last 12 months.

CO: And so how did Salisbury Cathedral become this place where people come and get their jab, as you call it, in England?

JC: Well, I believe it was offered by the dean to the NHS back in the days when the news first broke that vaccines are on the way, and it would seem that it really does fit all the requirements. I mean, apart from anything elsem and I say this only slightly jokingly, it's a very draughty building. So in terms of ventilation, it's actually very very useful. And there is a lot of space. And aside from that, it's just a very very beautiful space. And it's really good to be welcoming people through the door again.

CO: But I mean, to use the space is one thing, but to have you and and others play that magnificent organ at the same time, how was that decided?

JC: Again, it was a request made by the senior team here. And if I'm honest with you, I just turned up on the morning not thinking much of it. And what became so clear to me was that this music, which we were playing, meant so much to so many people. It's quite extraordinary. I hasten to point out, we're not really speaking with the people as they're coming in. We're staying well away. But we're getting an awful lot of emails afterwards, people saying extraordinary things, how they've never been so moved -- and letters and wonderful phone calls. I think we've been so long now without spontaneous music making, and a lot of the people coming into the cathedral are vulnerable, they may have been shielding -- as we're saying over here -- they've really been missing these things which are so crucial to our wellbeing and happiness. The idea that music isn't terribly important, it falls flat here. I mean, music does so much for people.

CO: I imagined justs being in that cathedral, even with all its draughts, is an aesthetic experience. But this must just be profound. Are they allowed to sit and stay and listen to your performances?

JC: Yes. With the Pfizer vaccine, which is currently being used, there is a requirement that you stay for 15 minutes after you have had your jab. So the main parts of the cathedral is given over to seating where people do sit 15 minutes to listen. One of the medical team administering the vaccines has been telling me how it's almost a bit of a problem actually, they're staying a little bit too long and they're running out of space. [Chuckles] It's a good problem to have, I have to say.

CO: I understand you're getting requests as well, which seems really rather odd. [Chuckles].

JC: [Chuckles] Yeah, it is. We've had a wide range of requests, actually. We've been asked for the classics -- like the "Air in D" by Bach, that you just played. That's been very popular. Pieces by Handel, pieces by Pachelbel. We've also had requests for...I mean, this is a British song, I think, but it's called "I Do Like to Be Beside the Seaside," and it's quite a trivial piece. But I think it perhaps highlights the fact that we're all hoping one day before too long we'll be able to go on holiday again. And over the last few days, I've been incorporating some songs from the 1930s and 1940s, a period of war time when actually community spirit was very powerful. And I think it really still resonates with people today.

CO: And when you point out that so many have not been in a live performance in such a long time and we just feel so deprived of art and culture. But what's it like for you as a performer to have a venue?

JC: Oh, it's so nice. It's wonderful to know that you're doing something for people. I've been quite fortunate throughout this pandemic in that I have largely been able to continue to play the wonderful instruments that we have in the cathedral, but not to people. And it's just wonderful to have reactions again, it makes it so much more worthwhile.

CO: And it is called the Father Willis Organ that you were playing?

JC: Yes, it's called the Father Willis Organ. It's named after the builder Henry Willis, an absolute giant of the Victorian organ builder who left us some exquisite instruments, not just in the UK but around the world. And we have a particularly fine example at Solsbury that has just been restored and sounding marvellous.

CO: Now, any particular favourite, that you have in the context of a vaccination clinic? What would you recommend?

JC: Oh, goodness me. It's so hard to...it's actually been very very difficult to find pieces with titles that are relevant. But I would want to stick with a piece of Bach because Bach is always appropriate in my mind. You can always play Bach and it will always work.

CO: We will try and find something appropriate for getting a vaccination. [Laughter] This seems like an odd thing to do. John, it's great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

JC: Thank you.

CH: John Challenger is the assistant music director at Salisbury Cathedral in England. During vaccination clinics there, he's been playing everything from folk tunes to Bach, which we heard off the top and other classical compositions. Amongst them, Edward Elgar's "Nimrod" -- an Enigma Variation written in honour of a friend who convinced Elgar to continue composing during a deep depression, and a fitting antidote if ever there was one. [MUSIC PLAYS: Edward Elgar's "Nimrod"]

February 2, 2021 Episode Transcript

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