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The AIH Transcript for May 13, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Early Warning. April's mass shooting in Nova Scotia came as an utter shock to nearly everyone. But for our guest, it was utterly horrifying. But it was no surprise.

CO: Plagued by fear. South Korea's gay community takes the blame for a new outbreak in a popular nightclub district. It's causing concern not just about the virus but about a rise of homophobia.

CO: Why he took up the cudgel for Nigels we'll never know. Until, we revisit the story of Nigel Night — an event at a bar for people named Nigel.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: NS shooting neighbour, South Korea LGBT COVID-19, 1080 Skateboarder

CH: Brenda Forbes says she had grave concerns about her neighbour Gabriel Wortman for years. From 2002 to 2014 she lived in Portapique, Nova Scotia, near the man who would later kill 22 people. She says he threatened her. And she told police he abused his girlfriend and kept a cache of illegal weapons. Eventually, she and her husband grew so afraid of their neighbour, they moved away. Brenda Forbes — who is retired from the military and has PTSD — now lives in western Canada. That's where we reached her. And a warning, some of what she describes is disturbing.

CO: Brenda, how would you describe your former neighbour, Gabriel Wortman?

BRENDA FORBEs: One word: psychopath.

CO: And did you think that? Is that how you would have described him before you knew what he did?

BF: Oh, yes. Both me and my husband knew what he was like. And I let other people in the community know the same thing, and what he had been doing with her. And a lot of them just said to me, oh, no, he's not like that. He's like, yeah, um, a true psychopath, anyway.

CO: And when you say her, this is his partner. And we're not naming her.

BF: That’s right.

CO: How did he treat her?

BF: [deep sigh] Like his possession. He drank quite a bit, and when he drank, he got violent. And he had her totally under his control.

CO: You witnessed that he was physically abusing her as well. What can you tell us about that?

BF: That was the first time that she ran over to my house, actually. And she said that he had been beating her. And he had blocked her car in so she couldn't get away at the house. And I said you need to get help. And I said, there's lots of places here in Nova Scotia. They will help you out. They will keep you away from him. They will hide you, whatever. You need to get help. And she said no, I can't because he will hurt me again.

CO: She was that afraid of him?

BF: Oh, yeah.

CO: There was a second time. Another incident, I Understand, where you wanted to get the RCMP involved? Can you tell us about that?

BF: Yeah, Okay. He has a few properties, one on the main road, but one on the back road. He was working on that. He got into drinking. She was there. And there were three other people that were there. And he had her on the ground, one of the guys told me, was strangling her and screaming at her. And she actually said, don't get involved or you're only going to make it worse. One of the guys told me what happened. So I said that's it, it's done. And I called the RCMP. And they came down to see me. And they said what happened? And I told them what the one fella had told me had happened. And I also said that he has a bunch of illegal weapons. And he said, can you get one of these guys to confirm what you just said? I said I will try. I will call one of them which I did. And I said, would you be willing to talk to the RCMP? And the answer I got back was, no way. He'll kill me.

CO: So they were afraid of him?

BF: Oh yes.

CO: You and your husband said that you knew that he had these illegal firearms.

BF: Yup.

CO: How did you know that?

BF: We’re military, or we were [chuckling]. We're both retired now. And he had us at his house when he first moved there, and he showed them to us. And we knew right away that there was no way that he would have got them here in Canada, number one. And he didn't have an FAC, and he actually asked us because we were military, if we could get him a weapon or ammunition. My husband's like, what? No way. That's against the law.

CO: Did you ever tell the RCMP that you saw those firearms?

BF: Yeah. When I had that interview with them, I told them then. They said we had to have like pictures or proof that he actually had these weapons. We didn't have that. So there was nothing, basically nothing at that time that they could do.

CO: I understand that you came to be personally afraid of him. From time to time, you had seen other women at his place when his partner wasn't there. And you came to tell one of your neighbours about that.

BF: That's when the shite hit the fan. He dragged her over to my house, pounded on the door. My husband answered the door, and he started screaming. What is your wife saying that I'm screwing around on my girlfriend? And I heard him. I came downstairs, and he was screaming at me. He says what are you saying that you're telling everybody that I'm screwing? And I said, if the shoe fits, wear it. I said I've seen countless women at your place. And he grabbed her, hauled her out the door, and he said you're going to pay for this, to me. Well, she was no longer allowed to talk to me, come anywhere near me. And what he would do, my husband ended up going to Africa for the military. And I was basically by myself. I would go to work and come back. And as soon as I got home, he’d show up in his vehicle, park it right outside my house. Get out, stand and stare at the house for a good half hour. And he did that for a few days. And I went, this is crazy. I'm scared to death. Now, the guy's a nut case. My husband comes home from Africa, and I let them know what had been going on. And he thought, and he's said, yeah, we’re moving. And the one thing that I have regret was the people that bought the house. I should have let them know what he was like because they ended up getting killed too.

CO: The people who bought your house were killed?

BF: Yeah, and he burnt the house down.

CO: When you learned that, what effect did that have on you?

BF: I'm going to say that he burnt that house down not because of the people that were living there, but because of me. It just rocked my world. And for somebody with PTSD, a little bit harder. [deep sigh]

CO: Brenda, I'm so sorry. That's just simply awful. But you couldn't, you can't feel you're responsible for that in any way.

BF: It's hard not to.

CO: But you're not. And you did everything you could. And when he was menacing you at your door, when you were alone in the house, did you report him?

BF: No, because [snide chuckle] with being in the military, the words were, suck it up, princess, right? You're tough. You're a soldier. Just soldier on. So, you know. [annoyed grunting] This is hard.

CO: I can hear it that it’s very, very painful to talk about this, especially the fear you had as well. On the night of April 18th, and you heard the story of this shooting and the next day, I guess, in your neighbourhood.

BF: Yes.

CO: Did you immediately think of your neighbour?

BF: Oh, I knew it was him. The first person I thought of with her. And then right away, I called the RCMP. Yeah, and let them know everything.

CO: And they've interviewed you since?

BF: Oh, yes. I've had probably four or five interviews.

CO: There are 22 victims that he killed, and many injured. But she, his partner, was also a victim? Do you wonder why he didn't kill her?

BF: He tried. He had her handcuffed. And threw her in the house. He lit the house on fire. He didn't want her to survive, but she was lucky and was able to get away and hide.

CO: Have you been able to speak with her since?

BF: I haven't spoken with her, no.

CO: Would you like to?

BF: [deep sigh] Yes, I would. But I don't think she really wants to talk to anybody right now.

CO: What would you say to her if you could?

BF: How much I feel for her, how much I know what she had to go through, everything. [sigh] I'm just glad she's okay. I'm really glad she's okay.

CO: Do you know if she has friends, if anyone is helping her, she has a circle of any kind?

BF: When she was with him, she really wasn't allowed to have friends. But she does have a good family. They will be good for her, really good for her.

CO: When you reflect on this and what you knew over the years that you were observing this, are your thoughts that this possibly could have been prevented?

BF: Yes, the laws have to change. If somebody gets, whether be a male or female, if they get assaulted, if they're abused or whatever. And if somebody reports it for them because they're too afraid to, it should be looked at right away. And if you report anybody that has what you know are illegal weapons, whether you have pictures of it. If somebody reports that it should be investigated like yesterday.

CO: You wanted people to know what he was about?

BF: Yeah. Well, now I'm getting bunches of emails from people that were there that I told and they're all apologizing to me. That doesn't work for me. You didn't believe me in the beginning. I'm not a crazy lady. What I said was true. It just [groan] it irritates me now that we’ve finally realized that after everybody's dead. Sorry, I'm getting a little upset here [awkward chuckle].

CO: Brenda, you are entitled to be upset. And I just want to make sure that you're okay, that when we let you go, you got someone to talk to?

BF: I have a service dog [laughing] and my husband.

CO: Okay. Brenda, you've been very generous. And I know we've walked him through a lot of really painful stuff, but I think people appreciate knowing what you’ve been able to tell them. Thank you.

BF: Well, I stutter now, too. So you're welcome [laughing].

CO: Take care.

BF: Okay.

CO: Bye.

CH: Brenda Forbes is a former neighbour of the Portapique killer. She now lives in western Canada. As It Happens requested a response from the RCMP in Nova Scotia. The force said it would not be able to respond before air time. You can find that interview on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sombre light rock]

South Korea LGBT COVID-19

Guest: Eunah Kim

Editor’s Clarification: CO states in this interview that homosexuality isn’t illegal in South Korea. While homosexuality is not illegal, “anal sex and other indecent acts” between military personnel can be punished by up to two years in prison. All male citizens between 18 and 28 in the country are required to perform military service.

CH: For weeks, South Korea has been held up as the gold standard when it comes to containing the coronavirus. Thanks to extensive testing and contact tracing, the country has largely been able to flatten the curve — and until recently, it was only seeing a minimal amount of new cases reported. But that changed after dozens of new cases were linked to a popular nightclub district in Seoul. And now, it's not just a second wave of cases that needs to be contained. There is also fear of a backlash against the country's LGBT community — after local media reported the man at the centre of this recent outbreak had frequented the city's gay clubs. Eunah Kim covers LGBT issues for Amnesty International Korea. We reached her in Seoul.

CO: Eunah, can you tell us a bit about how South Korea's gay community got blamed for this outbreak?

EUNAH KIM: Okay. So the weekend before the official loosening from social distancing to distancing in daily life, a man in his 20s went out to the town called Itaewon, which is famous as an expat town, packed with lots of bars and clubs. And he was confirmed positive. And, yes, he was carrying the virus. And a week later, as of today, we have 120 cases in total, and 70 in Seoul. And that could possibly at least partially be traced back to his roundabouts. But it's not necessarily all from the man from the club.

CO: All right. But so they're tracing it back to him, which you have to do that to find out where it began. But how is it covered? This was the issue, wasn't it?

EK: Um-hm, yes.

CO: The way that he was pursued and the way he was reported in the media, can you give us a taste test of that?

EK: Yes. The real problems starts from Thursday. The Conservative Christian Daily, they had a headline called: A Coronavirus Carrier was in the Gay Club in Itaewon.” And they specified his age group and his occupation and where he works. Not the name of the company, but where it's near. And this headline aggravated individuals' outing and hatred towards sexual minority group. And initially, the local district of Yongsan-gu, which the club is situated. They did say it's a club and bar. And the name of the club, they mentioned it, but they didn’t describe it as a gay club. Nor this club has described itself as a certain club on their website or any anywhere else. So following up to this Daily’s exclusive report with this headline, comparetivly, the other media outlets took it, and it elevated the homophobic perspective of the situation, which has long been a deeply rooted issue in Korean society.

CO: Eunah, Just give us a sense of I know homosexuality is not illegal in South Korea, but what does it mean to be to be gay, to come out in in that country? How are you treated?

EK: Yeah. As you said, homosexuality is not illegal, but it's still taboo. The country's dominant faith is Christianity. And once they’re outed, they can be fired at work and also they can be exposed to domestic violence. And in Korea, there's no like senior government official or any personnel in established position who is LGBTI. Yeah, that's a very uncommon to be out as gay person.

CO: And so what now, since these reports about the tracing, perhaps tracing, the origin of this outbreak to this club, what's been the backlash against the LGBTQ community?

EK: Since the 7th, when the daily newspaper started to write the headlines, the gay club, or a gay corona, corona gay, all those really dangerous keywords become trending on social media. And also, the whole community has shrunk. And they are very much concerned whether they could be outed. One of the comments on social media that became very problematic was like they are saying, like first with HIV and second with coranvirus.

CO: There have been people who have said in interviews, or stated that they're actually considering suicide. They're in terrible despair since this happened, people who are LGBT in South Korea. Are the authorities changing the way they go after this case at all?

EK: So they are doing this anonymous testing. And that's what government is providing to protect their identity. But at the same time, the local governments, including Seoul, Seoul City mayor, he said if people keep hiding, they are willing to cooperate with National Police Agency and maybe visit individuals place, to their house. So they are like highly pressuring them and threatening them in a way.

CO: Eunah, it sounds like a very distressing situation for the LGBT community in South Korea. But I appreciate you telling us what's happening. Thank you.

EK: Okay. No problem.

CO: Goodnight.

EK: Bye-bye.

CH: Eunah Kim is with Amnesty International Korea. We reached her in Seoul.

[Music: Spanish guitar]

1080 Skateboarder

Guests: Gui Khury, Ricardo Khury Filho

CH: Gui Khury has done something no other skateboarder has done before — he landed a complete 1080 degree turn on a vertical ramp.In other words, he flew off a ramp on his board and did three full 360 degree turns in the air. And equally important, he landed gracefully. Oh, and he's 11 years old. We reached Gui Khury at home in Curitiba, Brazil.

CO: Gui, first of all, big congratulations to you.

GUI KHURY: Thank you so much.

CO: They call this 1080 the holy grail of skateboarding. So how did it feel at that moment when you pulled it off?

GK: I was so shocked. I didn't even believe that I landed it. It was just so crazy.

CO: You know, I've seen the video, and you are like up in the air twirling perfectly. And then you land and smoothly. And you make it look so easy. But what was going on for you at that moment?

GK: I was just saying to myself, Okay, Okay, I'm going to make this right here, right now. And, apparently, it happened.

CO: Did you know you'd done a third one before you landed?

GK: Not really, because I almost can't even see anything because I'm spinning so fast.

CO: [laughing] Were you dizzy?

GK: Yeah, I super dizzy.

CO: Gui, as I say, you made it look like it was just the easiest thing. How hard is it to do that?

GK: It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

CO: And you're 11. So I guess it's in your whole life, that's the hardest thing?

GK: Yes.

CO: And how did you do it? How do you think you pulled it off?

GK: I pulled it off by spinning as fast as I can, trying to hold on when I landed it. And this trick is all about the setup trick, the setup trick, which is called a fakie air, which is a trick that I did before the 1080. And that other trick needs to be perfect.

CO: Uh-huh. Okay. So you had to get up to speed before you could do it right?

GK: And the hardest part about it is that I'm going backwards.

CO: [laughing] Yeah, you are. When we look at the video, you are going backwards. Who was watching you do it? What kind of audience did you have? It’s a video, but who was watching you do it?

GK: It was me, my mum and my dad.

CO: And what did they say to you when you came down?

GK: They were like so excited. They were just like, oh, I'm so proud of you, Gui. And it was the best feeling ever.

CO: Okay. Just so people know how good you are at this you are. You were already the youngest person to complete a 900 degree turn. And only a handful of people have ever done that. And now you are the first to do the holy grail, the 1080, is that right?

GK: Yes.

CO: What motivates you? Why was it important for you to do that?

GK: It's important for me to do that because it's just one of my biggest dreams, and I I love doing different kinds of spins and different kinds of tricks that can blow people's mind.

CO: [chuckling] Okay, but you're only 11 years old, and you've already done something that no one else has done. So what can you possibly do next?

GK: The trick that I wanted to try is a 1260, which is half a spin more than a 1080.

CO: How much time do you spend skateboarding?

GK: I'll say two to three hours a day.

CO: Wow! And have you ever had a serious injury?

GK: A lot of times.

CO: Got a lot of bruises?

GK: Yes, I have some bruises. But you get used to it when you're skateboarding.

CO: You must, Gui. [laughing] I can imagine you've had a few knockdowns. Anyway, it's great to talk to you. And I'm sure your parents are very proud of you. And they should be.

GK: They are.

CO: All right. Take care. Bye-bye.

GK: Do you want to talk to my dad?

CO: Okay.

GK: Okay. Thank you so much for this interview.

CO: Thank you, Gui.

GK: Bye.

CO: Bye-bye.

RICARDO KHURY FIHLO: Hello?

CO: Hi. You're a Gui’s dad?

RKF: Yeah, I'm Ricardo, Gui’s dad.

CO: Ricardo, how proud are you of Gui.

RKF: I was very proud of him when he landed. And he was super stoked. And me and my wife, you know, we were like jumping like kids.

CO: [laughing] He said he didn't even know, he wasn't sure he had done it at that moment. But you knew?

RKF: Yeah, I knew it, yeah. We started yelling at that time. tAnd he was, oh, that was so crazy, I can’t believe it. I can't believe I did it.

CO: It sounds like he's got some pretty good parents encouraging him.

RKF: Yeah, we always encourage him, you know, to try. You know, at least to try. Give it a try.

CO: Ricardo, we just said congratulations to your son, but thank you for speaking with us and. And take care.

RKF: Thank you so much for having us.

CO: All right. Bye-bye.

RKF: Goodbye. Thank you.

CH: Gui Khury is the first skateboarder to do a 1080-degree turn on a vertical ramp. He's 11 years old. And Ricardo Khury Filho is his father. They were in Curitiba, Brazil.

CH: And now, an encore presentation of some of the most powerful interviews we aired on As It Happens in 2019. Stories of people who would scoff if you called them heroes, people who don't consider themselves heroic at all. People who may not even be heroic, but people, who to us, are heroes all the same. We begin with American archaeologist and anthropologist Metin Eren. The work of Canadian anthropologist Wade Davis inspired him and changed his life. Yet, one story in Mr. Davis' books had vexed him for years, which was how Mr. Aaron came to change his diet, freeze his poop and attempt to make said frozen poop into a knife. Carol spoke with Metin Eren in September.

[sc]

CO: Professor Eren first of all can you just give us the gist of this story that Wade Davis tells in his book?

METIN EREN: Yeah. So the story basically is that there was an Inuit man who was being forced to move off of his settlement and his family took away his tools in order to convince him to come along with them and he refused to move off of his homeland. So in the midst of a winter gale he defecated into his hands and fashioned a knife from the frozen feces using a spray of saliva. Then the story goes that he killed a dog with that knife, used this rib cage as a sled, and used its tide to harness another dog. And he sped off into the night.

CO: Wow that's quite a story.

ME: It is quite a story. And it's one that I think has captured the imagination of lots of people including myself. When that book came out in 1998, I heard Wade Davis tell that same story to Diane Rehm on NPR. And because I heard that story I was inspired to go into anthropology. And in fact I still today have the tape cassette that I ordered from NPR of that Wade Davis interview. So I think you know Professor Davis has just been an inspiration to just countless people around the world.

CO: And so it's a fascinating story. But you decided to apply a lot of skepticism to this story. Why is that?

ME: Well little did I know that 20 years after this story came out I would be co-director of an experimental archaeology lab here at Kent State. And we regularly reproduce ancient technologies in order to reverse engineer them. And figure out how they work. And it was late last year that it just sort of hit me that this idea of a knife being fashioned from frozen human feces had never really been tested before. And I think as any good scientist we were curious.

CO: I mean in order to do it you had to recreate conditions that might have been around this Inuit man and his decision to escape this way. So how did you go about doing that?

ME: Well I mean it's first important to note that no experiment is ever perfect and no experiment can ever perfectly replicate reality. But we did the best we could and so what I did was for eight days I went on a high protein and high fatty acid diet which is sort of consistent with an Arctic diet. And after a few days of that I started producing the necessary test samples then we start freezing the samples and to be honest I was surprised at how hard frozen human feces could become. And you know during the course of an experiment scientists start to see pattern, they have intuition about the results. And I start to wonder this may just work. We may actually make a knife out of frozen human feces.

CO: Okay so the story is that he fashioned this knife out of his frozen feces and then he proceeded to -- basically -- to skin and disarticulate a dog that he used as a sled. So how did you reproduce that part of it?

ME: Well what we wanted to do was give our knives the best possible chance to succeed. So we actually had dry ice with us. And so we're able to stick the knives into negative 50 degrees centigrade dry ice to get these things really really cold. And then in addition to that we had a metal file and so we're able to sharpen these feces knives as best as we could. And then what we did was we used refrigerated meat instead of a fresh kill because we thought well a fresh kill in that story would be a warm thing that would potentially melt the knives. And we want to see if these knives could cut so we used refrigerated meat. So we really put in place variables that allowed these knives the best chance to succeed -- it was a very conservative test. Unfortunately when we went to use these frozen knives it was like a brown crayon. Unfortunately it just left very nasty streaks on our meat and they didn't cut at all.

[/sc]

CH: That was Kent State University anthropologist Metin Eren speaking with Carol in September. And unlike the knives, he distressingly described as brown crayons, his study had a point: that a good story is not an excuse not to do good science. Jamie Biscelgia got a good story out of her terrible experience. And since the incident, she's been telling that story as a cautionary tale. I assume it has helped countless people, especially those who had been planning to put octopuses on their faces. Guest host Pyia Chattopadhyay spoke with Ms. Biscelgia in August.

[sc]

PC: Ms. Biscelgia, why did you put a live octopus on your face?

JAMIE BISCELGIA: It wasn't intentional. Well, it was, but it was a quick response to a picture for a photo contest in a derby that I was in South Sound.

PC: And so tell me more about the circumstances of this picture contest?

JB: Well, it was early in the afternoon still. I had launched my boat out of Fox Island — where I normally launch. And I had noticed that my friends that were in the derby with me, their motor wasn't working. So I put them into another spot. I towed them, so that they could jig fish. And while I was next to them, one of the guys on the boat had caught this Pacific giant octopus — a juvenile. And I decided that I told him that I wanted to keep it for dinner — don't let it go. So I got closer to the boat, and I grabbed it off the hook. And I said well, take my picture with the octopus. So I put it on my face very, very quickly. I had never touched an octopus in my life. I've only seen them at the aquariums. And then, all the sudden, while my friend was taking pictures, they all noticed that he captured the moment that its beak went into my chin.

PC: Tell me in as much detail as you can — and what you can remember — what that octopus felt like, including the bite when its beak went into your chin.

JB: Okay. Well it felt, at first, very you know it's fun and it's interesting and it's just playing. So I'm watching the guys take pictures. And then when its beak entered my chin, it was the most intense pain. It felt like I said a barbed hook. If I tried to release it off my face, I knew I was going to tear skin or flesh away. So I tried to let it settle, and if I did pull it away as a bit me again.

PC: Okay, so once you got this octopus off your face, and took some photos of it, and put it in your cooler. And you're in pain; you're bleeding, right?

JB: Oh yeah. But I'm a strong-willed woman. I'm by myself on a boat. I've got five guys watching me. So I try not to act like anything major is going on. So I grab my towel as it's bleeding, and I just keep it held to my face and go on with fishing.

PC: So I might have gone to the hospital. Did you do that?

JB: Oh, I went to the hospital, but not that day, or not the next day. I had been preparing for this weekend for a long time. So I was in a derby back-to-back. Friday this happened. Saturday was another derby. And then I went home Saturday night after the derby, and woke up with a swollen face. My eyes were swollen; I couldn't see very well out of my left side. Underneath my chin was a large pus pocket. And then the left side of my face was completely paralyzed.

PC: So the octopus didn't just bite you, it is venomous. And I understand you are still recovering.

JB: Yes, I am actually at my favorite restaurant — O'Neill's Bar and Grill in Gig Harbor — and that I have to eat special food with no dairy so that I can take my medications. I'm on three different medications.

PC: This all sounds pretty awful.

JB: Oh yes. It wasn't a good idea. I'm telling everyone. I'm not here to you know try to make myself look good because I know I don't.

[/sc]

CH: Jamie Biscelgia of Fox Island, Washington, speaking with guest host Piya Chattopadhyay this past August. Ms. Biscelgia has since fully recovered. Now our next unusual hero would definitely reject the idea that he's a hero. In fact, he might reject the idea that anyone is a hero, especially anyone in his hometown of Puolanka, Finland. Puolankais not thriving, but despite a downturn in its fortunes, there is a silver lining, well a pewter lining, probably, or tin foil, anyway. And that is the rise of the Puolanka Pessimism Association. In a town with little business, being bummed-out, has become big business, well, medium business, well, the only business, anyway. In November, Carol spoke with the director of the pool, Puolanka Pessimism Association, Tommi Rajala.

[sc]

CO: Tommi, can you tell us about the warning signs that people will see as they're driving into your town?

TOMMI RAJALA: Yeah. There's a huge sign saying next: Puolanka. You still have time to turn around. And the funny thing is if he or she turns around, there is about 70 kilometers to go back to the previous town, of course.

CO: [laughing] Why do you warn them that they can still turn around?

TR: That's an excellent question. We didn't want to invite them here because nobody ever comes here anyway. So maybe that's a more realistic view of how people think of the Puolanka. They want to turn around and go somewhere else.

CO: Now, this is because it's regarded as the worst town in all of Finland, right?

TR: [deep sigh] Yeah. In many statistics, Puolanka happens to be the worst or the bottom towns otherwise, fastest a dying town, or how many people are unemployed. It's always on the news that Puolanka tends to be performing really badly in every possible scenario. That has a lot to do with that, yes.

CO: But then on top of all that, on top of being the worst town in all of Finland, you're known to be pessimists, right?

TR: Yeah, well, if everybody tells a child that the child is stupid, then the child believes that he's stupid. So many people have told Puolanka that Pulolanka is the worst place to be. So maybe we start to believe that.

CO: Now, you live in Puolanka. So is it that depressing?

TR: [deep laughter] Yes. Yes, it is.

CO: [laughing] Really? Okay, well, just give us your best shot at selling us to Puolanka. I mean, let’s say I'm a tourist going into Finland. Give me one good reason I might want to go see Puolanka?

TR: Well, it looks like any town in Finland. It was mostly built in the 70s, and is surrounded by a lot of forest — beautiful nature — but so is every single other town in Finland also. So why would somebody come here? Mostly people come here because they have family here or relatives here. This is not a major tourist attraction in any way. Okay, well, we do have the highest waterfall in Finland.

CO: Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah.

TR: But compared to any waterfall in any neighbouring country it’s a really tiny one.

CO: Okay, but if I did go to Puolanka, I might be able to join your association, which is the Pessimists Association. Would that be fun?

TR: I don't know if that's fun to be a pessimist? But, yes, many people do actually. And we have some members coming from all over Finland, not only Puolanka. I don’t think we have any members abroad yet, so you are welcome to join us, yes, ofcurse.

CO: There you go. Things are looking up for the Pessimist Association in Puolanka.

TR: Yes. I don't think this is now really pessimistic to try to get Canadians to join the association though. [CO laughs] Pessimism is not always a negative thing — especially if you don't take the pessimism too seriously like we do.

CO: But I guess on the upside, you're never disappointed.

TR: Yeah, well, that's what they say.

CO: All right. But there are some things to see in Puolanka, right? I mean there is a bus that goes there six times a week. And you have a grocery store, as I understand. You have a gas station. I can get a cup of coffee at a restaurant, is that right?

TR: There is currently one restaurant in town and one gas station, yes. Two grocery stores, so, yeah, you can live here. I've said that Puolanka is not a dying tow, Puolanka is already dead town. [CO laughs] But when you accept that truth that it's not getting better, then you can perfectly well live here. It’s not a problem then. But if you think that this will again be like it was in the 70s, you will be really disappointed. And you are not a real pessimist then.

CO: If people are pessimistic, they will really enjoy being in your town, I guess?

TR: Yeah, well, not everyone in Puolanka likes what our association is doing. They consider that pessimism is ruining our reputation. But I don't know if we have any other reputation as the pessimist town. So I don't know what there is to be ruined. Nobody's ever heard of Puolanka unless they've heard it through the pessimists — not even in Finland — and definitely not in Canada if we were not pessimists.

CO: Well, now, everyone in Canada is hearing about Puolanka. So I mean that's cause for optimism, isn't it?

TR: Yes. Now probably they will fire me from the association now because this.

CO: [laughing] Because you brought all this optimism into your town.

TR: Yeah, too many people now here. and we will have next year at least one Canadian tourist coming here saying that I heard from the radio that may I join you. And we said no, you can't, bye.

CO: All right. Well, that's fair enough wording — including all the other signs you have in town about turning around. So I'll leave you to it then, Tommi. And I'd like to say it's great to speak with you, but that would be looking up, wouldn't it?

TR: Yeah, this was total disappointment, so please don't call me again.

CO: [laughing] You got it. Bye.

TR: [laughing] Okay, bye.

[/sc]

CH: Tommi Rajala, the director of the Puolanka Pessimism Association in the town of Puolanka, Finland, speaking with Carol in November. Speaking of pessimism, things aren't looking great for one particular name. So at a recent UK summit, Nigel discussed the issue with Nigel. Nigel also piped up, and Nigel in particular spoke stirringly, to the loud approval of Nigel, Nigel, Nigel and Nigel. It was Nigel Night held at the Fleece Inn in Bradford in England to celebrate one name... Keith. Just kidding... Nigel. Nigel Smith was the organiser, and Carol spoke with him in September.

[sc]

CO: Nigel, why did you want to celebrate being Nigel?

NIGEL SMITH: Well, about three years ago, I realized that there were no new Nigel's named in the UK in 2016. So I thought that's a bit of a worry really because most of us are of a certain age you know we're going to die out soon. So it's important to sort of celebrate our Nigelness [CO laughs] before we all pop off the planet.

CO: A dying breed then you say?

NS: A dying breed, exactly, yeah.

CO: How many Nigel's turned out?

NS: So on the night, we had 434. Originally, I thought it was 433, but I forgot to count myself.

CO: All of them named Nigel. Did they have to prove it? Did they have to show you I.D.?

NS: Yeah, they had to bring I.D. — so their licence, or their passport, or whatever. If you were a Nigel, you've got a badge that said “Nigel” on it, and you got a certificate. And if you weren’t a Nigel, you got a badge that said “not Nigel” on it — just so people were sure.

CO: Now, is there anything, did you notice having so many Nigel's in the room from all over the world at the same time, any common traits, anything that you all seem to have that either you got by being Nigel, or called Nigel because of?

NS: I think we're all pretty stoical about life, really. I mean Nigel is a name you need to grow into, I think. So certainly when I was younger, people used to take the mickey out of me quite a lot for being called Nigel, and say it was a joke name. But you know if you do your research, it's originally a medieval name. It's been written about by people like Walter Scott back in the 1800s. So it's got some real so the character and a real robustness that we need to celebrate even though our name has been much maligned over the last two or three decades, I think.

CO: But there's no King Nigel is there? I mean there's no Commander Nigel no General Nigel, so any famous Nigel you can point to?

NS: Well, we've got quiet leadership skills. I think that's what we've got, really. Yeah [CO and NS chuckle]. Discrete leadership skills, maybe. There's quite a lot of famous Nigels in the UK. There's a guy called Nigel Benn, who’s a boxer. And Nigel Mansell, who's a very famous international formula one driver.

CO: Now, you left one Nigel off your list: Nigel Farage. Has he brought credit to the name Nigel, or has he diminished in any way?

NS: I think you know he's obviously a very divisive political figure. And I think one of the things that made our Nigel Night worked so well was that it was not about the politics. And it was almost a real positive coming together of like-minded people — if only through the same common fore name.

CO: I just wonder if maybe the 2016 Nigel drought had anything to do with your political figure?

NS: It could have. But despite the man, we are fighting back, you know? [CO and NS chuckle]

CO: Okay, you had some awards. What were the Nigel awards that you handed out?

NS: So yeah. So we did “The Youngest Nigel”, I was seven months old, Rupert Nigel. Don't know his parents they wanted to give him two challenges in life: being called Rupert and Nigel. [CO giggles] But you know once he gets through there, he'll be made of iron. And then we had “The Nigel Most Traveled”, who’s a guy from Texas, who has seen it on social media, and was really up for it, and his girlfriend decided that was a great idea, but didn’t have the money. So they put something out on social media for everybody to send five or ten dollars, which they duly did, and the both of them came over specifically for the Nigel Nnight. So Nigel Stevens, he’s our only crowdfunded Nigel that we had there.

CO: Now did they tell stories? Did they say talk about being bullied as a Nigel, or being anything that happened to them in life good or bad because they were Nigel?

NS: Oh yeah they did, but everybody just kind of got going talking to each other. And we were going to do a thing called “Speed Nigel”, you know like speed dating back in the 80s and 90s, but for Nigels, and give them two or three minutes to talk to a new Nigel every two to three minutes. [CO chuckles] But it just didn't need it. Everybody was just in there and doing it anyway. And so we had guys who were working on it put on a car production line and then talking to professors, and all different types of Nigels.

[/sc]

[Music: Funky beat]

[sc]

WOMAN: Sometimes, think of me.

MAN: Oh, I will. I will think of you, as you were that fine day a week ago. Do you remember? You were wearing a white dress, and we talked, and there was a seagull lying on the ground.

WOMAN: There’s a seagul.

[/sc]

CH: That is the sound of “The Seagull” — As in Anton Chekhov's play, “The Seagull”,

[sc]

[Music: Orchestra]

RICHARD HARRIS: Most guls don't bother to learn more than how to get from shore to food and back again. It is not flying that matters, but eating. For this gul though it was not eating that mattered, but flight.

[/sc]

CH: That's the sound of Richard Harris reading from the weird ‘70s pop spirituality bestseller “Jonathan Livingston Seagull”. All of those take inspiration from seagulls, but none are quite as pure a tribute to seagulls as this.

[Sound: Person imitating seagulls]

CH: That's a competitor at the European Goal Screeching Championship in Adinkerke, Belgium, this past March. A human competitor, I should point out. Each person who took to the mike is a hero, but a greater hero is the man who listened to each piercing shriek and judged its accuracy. His name is Jan Seys. He's a researcher at the Flanders Marine Institute. And guest host Megan Williams spoke with him after his brave judging ordeal on March 26th of last year.

[sc]

MW: Jan, why would anyone want to go to a Belgian bar on a weekend and listen to people screech like gulls?

JAN SEYS: Well, it’s fun, of course. If you go to the coast then, of course, the first animal you think about — the first sounds you think about — is the seagull. The seagull screech is the sound of the sea. And it’s been really very funny there.

MW: So what was the point of this championship?

JS: Well, actually those started a few years ago when the coastal province here in Belgium involved in nuisance created by seagulls realized that there was need to counterbalance that a little bit to put it into perspective since many people were complaining about seagulls opening trash bags, the bird droppings, and even seagulls stealing ice creams and sandwiches on the sea dikes. And there was a feeling like we should make sure that it's not becoming too negative, and that we get the seagull a more friendly and likable image at least.

MW: Now you were judging this competition. So tell us what you were looking for as people stepped up to the mic?

JS: We looked at for 15 points of the 20 points, to the gull. How well they performed the imitation. And the other five points dealt with the performance how they were flapping their arms and imitating a gull, or some were really dressed up as a gull. Some were wearing seagull-style beaks on top of their heads. It added, of course, to the atmosphere and the fun that we had.

MW: Okay, so I'm going to play you three contestants from the competition. And I'd like you if you don't mind to give me your judgment of their calls.

JS: Yup.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Human #1 sounding like a gull]

MW: OK. That was gull call number one. Tell us what you think about that, Jan.

JS: Yeah. Well, this sounds very much like a typical begging call for food. So that gull is saying it's probably a chick, and it's saying I want food. Of course, if you have such a chick on your roof terrace, and it starts screaming at 4:00 in the morning in June when the young get out of their eggs, it's rather annoying. And I can understand that people are not feeling very happy about that.

MW: So what would you give that one out of 20?

JS: This one was a very good one. I would say this is close to 17, maybe even 18.

MW: Wow! And that's without even seeing the re-enactment element.

JS: Yeah, but this is a real natural sounds as the herring gull would do.

MW: OK. So here's gold call number two.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Human #2 sounding like a gull]

MW: Jan?

JS: Yeah, this is what we usually call the long call. And it's a gull who is saying here I am. So this one I would was also a very good one. More or less the same, I would say also 17 to 18.

MW: OK. And at the risk of losing listeners, here's one more.

[Sound: Human #3 sounding like a gull]

MW: Jan, your verdict?

JS: Yeah, also a very good one. It's a bit different. It's what they call the moo cow call. And it's another way of saying here I am because they have many ways of saying here I am. So it's comparable. And I would say again a 17, 18. These are some of the best ones you have been providing me.

MW: So what is the best, do you think?

JS: Maybe I would go for the last one.

MW: Oh, ok. Well I've got to tell you, we pulled a fast one on you. The last one is a real goal is a real gull.

JS: It’s a real gull, ah ha, ok! [laughs]

MW: But you didn't give it a 20. You gave it a 17, 18.

JS: Yeah, but maybe that's because of the microphone and the telephone, of course. I've been working with seabird colonies, so I should know the difference. But indeed, some people were really performing so well that it was hard for us to distinguish between the real call and that one. So that's good.

MW: Now I'm gonna put you on the spot here, but are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and give us your own gull impression?

JS: You mean that I should try to imitate…

MW: That's what I mean.

JS: I'm very bad in that. So I don't think it will add value.

MW: Could you could you just do a little irritating check call for us?

JS: Well what some seagulls do it's not this chick, but it's like this typical. [honking] That's what they do, and it's not the the begging for food call, but it's called the choking call. And they use it in courtship and in territorial disputes. And it's saying I'm not moving. Here I am. And make sure you don't forget about me.

[/sc]

CH: That was Jan Seys of the Flanders Marine Institute in Belgium, speaking with guest host Megan Williams on As It Happens in March. He just survived a stint as the judge of the European Gulls Screeching Championship. It's possible that Mr. Seys didn't read the fine print when he signed up for that. Donelan Andrews would have. For one thing, as a high school teacher, she encourages attention to detail. So she likes to practise what she preaches. For another, she likes to know exactly what she's getting into. Like, exactly. But this year, her heroic insistence on perusing every clause and subclause in a contract didn't just make her better informed. It made her 10,000 bucks U.S. richer — plus surprise bonuses. Carroll spoke with Donelan Andrews in March.

[sc]

CO: Donelan, first of all why, were you reading this travel insurance contract fine print?

DONELAN ANDREWS: because after purchasing the insurance, I just wanted to make sure I knew exactly what was covered and what wasn't. I was particularly looking for identity theft information. That's about it. I wanted to be sure I knew everything that I had purchased.

CO: Where were you going? What was your trip?

DA: My trip is in September to London with six very close girlfriends. It's our 25th anniversary of travelling together. And we decided to go international this year.

CO: Uh huh, so you were reading through the fine print for everybody, or just that you wanted to know?

DA: Just for myself, yes.

CO: Now, is that unusual for you to do that?

DA: No, actually I am kind of a nerd about that. I always read contracts. I always read the fine print. And you know I even keep a hard copy of everything in a folder in a file cabinet. And I'm not ashamed of it.

CO: Well, we're going to reveal why you really shouldn't be aimed of it in the course of this story. But so what did you find at the bottom of the very last page?

DA: At the bottom of the very last page, it said if you have read this far in a contract, you are only one per cent of the population who actually reads through the end of a contract. And we want to change that. So you know once you read this, if you will email us at this email address your name and a phone number, someone will contact you within 24 hours with you know with a chance to win ten thousand dollars.

CO: So what did you do?

DA: I immediately sat down at my computer, and emailed them my name phone number.

CO: And what did you hear back?

DA: Well, of course, I thought you know what are the chances but someone has to win. And so the very next day, I received a phone call from SquareMouth, and Jenna Hummer — their PR director — said I had won. And I had a hard time believing it at first.

CO: That you'd won the 10,000 dollars?

DA: Exactly,

CO: And this is relevant because we can hear in the background the noise because you're at school, right?

DA: Yes, I'm at school and it's class change. I apologize. My door is closed, but they do get a little loud out there.

CO: I’ll ask you about that because they told you it wasn't just that the 10,000 dollars you were going to get. What else did they tell you that they're going to give?

DA: Well, part of the excitement was that they were also donating 10,000 dollars to a nonprofit called Reading is Fundamental, which is a nonprofit company that provides books and other reading materials to school systems. And so they donated that as well. But then when they found out that I am actually a teacher, they added another 10,000 that was not part of the contest. They did it just to be fabulous. And I work at two different high schools in my position. And so they have donated 5,000 dollars to each high school in addition to the Reading is Fundamental donation. And those two media specialists are now my very best friends.

CO: That's extraordinary! And so what message do you think that sends to all those students about reading the fine print?

DA: Both my principal and our school superintendent talked to the students about you know we have a literacy initiative here at the high school. And you know this is just a perfect example of why you need to read things. It's not just novels — it's anything that you get you know as an adult to. You need to read everything and you know read the fine print. And wow! It sure did pay off for me this time.

[/sc]

That was Georgia High School teacher Donelan Andrews, speaking with Carol in March. She just won a bunch of money from a travel insurance website for reading all the fine print. I imagine Dion Callaway signed all kinds of insurance documents before he went skydiving in April. After all, he was risking life and limb — and he ended up losing one of them. Not his life, luckily, but he did temporarily lose his prosthetic leg. He told Carol how he got back on his feet.

[sc]

CO: Dion take us to that moment when you stepped out of the plane last weekend. When did you realize that something was not quite right with your leg?

DION CALLAWAY: You know I was hanging on outside of the plane. And I had three other friends jumping with me. And as I left the plane I could feel it -- within 500 feet -- I could feel it coming loose. And that was when panic started to set in.

CO: And so at what point did it leave you?

DC: I was at about 10,000-feet and we jumped at 12,000 -- and I reached back and grabbed it and I tried to tighten it up. And right when I was coming in -- we were building a round with the four of us. And as I was coming into the circle, I felt it fly off.

CO: Okay wait a second. You are like free-falling -- this is before it shoots out -- and you are reaching around, trying to reattach your prosthetic limb.

DC: I did not want to lose it. That coming off of my leg, I felt that that was the last thing I wanted to happen.

CO: Did you see where it went?

DC: You know it floated up. It was falling a lot slower than I was. I flew out of the circle and tried to look down at where it might land. And I kind of tracked it all the way to the ground. And then it was not where I thought it was going to be -- for sure.

CO: Okay well before we get to where you actually found it -- where did you think it had landed?

DC: I thought it had landed kind of in the area where we jumped — and I was north of the airport.

[/sc]

CH: That was everyday hero Dion Callaway, explaining to Carol how he was reunited with the prosthetic leg he lost while skydiving in April. Obviously, falling out of the sky at a high speed is a nail-bitingly tense experience. Our next hero also saw an opening. Then he saw it vanish. And that's when Sidney Tamm realised that a jellyfish-like creature known as the Warty Comb Jelly had a miraculous disappearing anus. Mr. Tamm is a researcher at the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, Carol spoke with him in March.

[sc]

CO: Mr. Tamm I know you spent a fair bit of time studying the messy business end of the warty comb jelly. So what's weird about it?

SIDNEY TAMM: Well first of all let me tell you that they have a through-gut. And this has been known for hundreds of years. In fact probably Aristotle even saw it -- the pooping. They have a through-gut which means they have a mouth and an anus -- and the material, the prey that it eats, goes all the way through from one opening to the other and it's then excrete it after the waste is processed. And the strange thing that I've found is that the anus does not seem to be a permanent structure. It appears before defecation begins, and disappears afterward.

CO: What! So you're saying basically that there's an anus only when the critter needs it?

ST: That's right.

CO: At what point does the anus show up?

ST: You have to observe these animals very carefully, immobilise, so they're not swimming. Otherwise you couldn't focus on anything for a long time. And in an animal that can't move and you can watch it under the microscope without it getting away -- what you see first is that before defecation begins there's no hole there, there is no anal structure visible in the anal canal which is where the poop accumulates. And then all of a sudden an opening appears in the anal canal which is pressing against the outside skin of the animal almost like a chimney sticking out. And this, what I think is tissue fusion between the outside surface and the anal canal surface, gives you a hole or an orifice through which the waste is then expelled. And you can see it streaming out. And the pore gets larger and larger -- big clumps can now go out from the anal canal until all the waste is expelled. And then the pore closes slowly and seals off the inside digestive compartment from the outside. And you have no anus until it poops again.

CO: It just disappears?

ST: Yes.

CO: So all of this waste builds up, as it does, inside this creature -- and it has no place to go, and it starts pushing on the outer skin, and then poof...there's an anus.

ST: Yes that's right.

CO: And then they poop and then poof...and it is gone.

ST: Yes. And so it's different...

CO: Yeah [laughs].

ST: ...from all higher animals. You know even when we're not pooping our anus is still there. It's closed by muscles -- sphincter muscles -- but the structure is still there. It is just closed.

CO: Besides the warty comb jelly have you seen this -- I guess -- this intermittent anus in any other creatures?

ST: I haven't looked.

CO: Now were you looking to see if there was a kind of transient anus on this creature or did you just happen to notice it?

ST: Oh no. No -- I wasn't looking for it because there's no indication in the literature. All the scientific literature says that the anus is a permanent structure. And in pictures of ctenophores, the anus is always drawn as a closed hole -- even during interludes between defecations. So in a non-defecating ctenophore -- in the literature you see a dot or a circle showing the anus or the anuses if it has two and it's brachia that they're showing.

CO: So you were studying this creature and then suddenly you notice: Woah! Where did the anus go?

ST: Yeah. Well, it's that way with everything.

CO: [Laughs] Well for you maybe.

ST: No, you know it's like Yogi Berra -- and the New York Yankees catcher you used to say, he said, "You can observe a lot just by looking." And that's only that's what I did.

[/sc]

CH: Sidney Tamm, of the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, telling Carol about the transient anus of the Warty Comb Jelly in March. Our last hero tonight is an amateur detectives. The case did not involve an anus. It involved a cloaca, a chicken's cloaca. And the thing that emerges from it, Kate McCormack, a midwife in Waldo, Maine, couldn't help but notice the egg on her bed right in front of the pillow. It was a mystery how it got there. But eventually, Ms. McCormack would crack the case wide open and possibly bright sunny side up. Carol spoke with Kate McCormack in October.

[sc]

CO: Kate, what did you think when you saw this egg on your bedroom pillow?

KATE MCCORMICK: I did not know what to think. I was so surprised to find an egg on my bed that my first thought was I looked to my dog — who was standing there beside me — and I thought Jake you have never picked up an egg in your life. Did you pick up an egg today and bring it upstairs?

CO: Now just for people to understand, this wouldn't be an egg possibly from your refrigerator, right? What connection do you have with eggs?

KM: So I have 19 laying hens right now, who live in a chicken coop, and have some free-range to a fenced-in backyard. And I have had chickens here for three years and have never found an egg in my bed before.

CO: [laughing] Did you ever find an egg in your house?

KM: I have never found an egg in my house. I have found an egg in a pile of leaves. And I have found an egg on porch furniture. But never in my house before.

CO: Okay, so you've narrowed it down. You do believe one of your chickens laid an egg in your bed?

KM: I do believe at this point in time, it was for sure a chicken. But, like I said, I have 19. So I was thinking how am I going to catch this chicken in the act? So it was very, very funny. I have to tell you the culprit had just joined the interview as well. She is in my house at this moment [CO laughs]. I sat down on the couch, and she is coming to join us.

CO: Can we hear her?

KM: She is right here. So if she makes any noise, you will definitely hear her.

CO: Now, so how is the chicken getting into your house?

KM: My back door is covered by a magnetic screen, so there's no actual outside door. It’s just as a sheet of screen that attaches with a magnet so my dog can walk freely in and out of the house. And I had left the door open that day because I knew I was going to be gone a really long time. And I thought well, Jake, my dog, loves to be outside with the chickens, but never imagined one of the chickens would also make her way to the door.

CO: You're convinced now this one chicken is the one who came in and laid the egg upstairs?

KM: So the day after, I was up in the morning having coffee in my living room — where I am now — and I could hear somebody or something walking up the steps. And so were right where my back door comes in there's a set of steps that leads to my upstairs. And sure enough, she had come back in the door, and had made her way right up the steps, and she caught me watching her. And she acted like she was doing nothing out of the ordinary up there — very innocent-looking. So I kind of snuck away, and I let her have some space. And she scratched at the blankets, and arranged the blankets, and I could hear from right outside my bedroom door that she was making the type of noises that a chicken make her and she lays an egg. She kind of clucks and squawks and carries on for a bit, and I went and looked, and again there was an egg in my bed.

CO: [chuckles] Why do you think she is doing that?

KM: So she has always been the most people-friendly chicken. She seems to really enjoy company. And I think that she has found herself a nice cozy spot to do it.

CO: but do you think she's sending you a message. I mean I understand you're also a midwife, right? Do you think she knows that?

KM: I am a midwife, so she knows that I am in the delivery business. But she definitely has a special bond with me and my dog. And it's only growing more because she's now insisting that she is inside while we're here.

[/sc]

Kate McCormack speaking with Carol from Waldo, Maine, on October 8th of 2019.

May 13, 2020 Episode Transcript

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