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The AIH Transcript for May 20, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Looking for work. New Brunswick has no active COVID-19 cases, but the province's food producers have another problem -- no foreign workers to farm fields and process fish. We'll ask the premier why that is.

CH: Epic fail. A museum founded by the president of a major U.S. retailer is being forced to return an ancient clay tablet etched with text from the Epic of Gilgamesh. And it's not the first time it's had to give up a pilfered artifact.

CO: Norman McCorvey was at the center of Roe v. Wade. Then she became a powerful voice in the anti-abortion movement. But newly surfaced interviews show that about-face was not what it seemed.

CH: Tender is the night. He's one hundred years old, he's become an unlikely hero of the pandemic in Britain, and now he's going to be knighted. Captain Tom Moore just hopes the queen has a light touch with the sword.

CO: Speaking of centennials. Canada's first coast to coast radio broadcast hit the airwaves 100 years ago today. We dusted off for a fresh airing.

CH: And let's call the hold thing off. In 1993, a Virginia man got so frustrated by his banks automated voice mail system that he designed his own automated complaints system. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that may be recording these calls for quality assurance and training purposes.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: 'We used her': Minister regrets paying Roe vs. Wade plaintiff to speak out against abortion

New Brunswick Foreign workers

Guest: Blaine Higgs

CH: New Brunswick food producers say they're struggling to find enough good help, farmers and processors usually depend on experienced foreign workers to do a long list of seasonal jobs. But last month, the province's premier, Blaine Higgs, announced that COVID-19, made it too risky to let those foreign workers in. Premier Higgs hoped that students and local workers could fill most of the gaps. So far, that hasn't been the case. We reached the premier of New Brunswick. Blaine Higgs in Fredericton.

CO: Premier Higgs, how confident are you that New Brunswick's food producers are actually going to be able to get their product to market without the help of those foreign workers?

BLAINE HIGGS: Well, I guess I'm confident that we will ensure that it happens, but I think likely we're going to see a need for some foreign workers here in the coming weeks. They've had probably at this point hired, I think, around 220 workers that are part of the workforce, whether they might be students or other employees from the province. And another 100 interviews are underway right now. But at this stage it would seem that we'll fall short of the needs that they are putting forward. So it's likely we're going to have to relax some of those rules. But we aren't in the height of the pandemics that we were a month ago or so.

CO: We spoke with Russell Jacob of Westmorland Fisheries just last week, he needed them within hours of that conversation because the lobster was starting to come in, that he was going to get behind really fast. And so I asked him, well, maybe the premier will ease these restrictions. He says well it has to be done now. So how quickly can you do this, given the fact that they seem to not be able to make a go of it with students?

BH: Well, I know there's 100 being interviewed now, so I'm not sure how many that particular group needed. We did find that demands went up sharply, you know, over the projections, because there was a lot of concern that we didn't have a market and we weren't going to be able to sell and the lobsters weren't going to be able to process because the whole thing would fall flat because pricing would not be there for the fishermen. And with the federal aid package that came out, it appeared that that was actually going to happen. But anyway, I would look into this because I have contact from every one of them through our Labour Department. And I can look at this one to see when they actually need the people, because we would be working with him directly to fulfill that need.

CO: Sorry premier, he said to us last week it would take two weeks from the time you agreed to let in foreign workers before he actually got them because they'd have to go into quarantine and it would be too late -- that lobster fishing season is a very short one, as you know. So how are you figuring out your timeline?

BH: So that is true if we bring it in from the outside. But given the numbers that we have that have come forward, then he would be a priority area in order to get people first. So you're right. If it's a temporary foreign worker that's outside, they will be have to isolate when they get here in, especially if they're working in a processing plant and not isolated by the nature of their work. But if his priorities is now, the students or other employees from the province can be prioritized to his operations.

CO: The issue is having the skilled workers, foreign workers coming. A man interviewed by The Globe and Mail describes how he's about to lose 75 percent of his apple orchards because of specific group who are like family who have been coming every year for a dozen years and know every tree on his farm. And the same with the people in the lobster industry we talk to. These are people who actually know the industries they're coming to. So if you say these foreign workers were already in the country, are coming from other industries, how are they of any benefit to these farmers and fisheries?

BH: Well, the ones that I'm referring to were already in our province, actually, is what we're looking for first or maybe somewhere in the country. Now, I would say if they've been coming for 20 years or they're temporary in the sense that they maybe come for a few months, but wouldn't it be great if they'd actually move here to New Brunswick or to Canada? Because we would love to do that, and I know companies that are doing that. We have you know, we talk to local food security and issues around why aren't we able to make these, you know, the farming or the fishing, which is such a big factor in Canada -- why aren't we able to make this more of a career path for people that are living and working here? I think we got a big challenge in that regard because at the end of the day, Carol, when we had in this province 70,000 people unemployed, I mean, 30,000 were students that were getting to 2,000 a month just to sit home. We have created a situation here where people do not feel a need to work, and that is a fundamental issue. We have maybe in our country, but we certainly have it here in New Brunswick.

CO: You know, you said recently that you wanted to have a long term view of the economy as you go through this pandemic. Your Labour Minister Trevor Holder described it even more starkly. He said this is a real chance to change our economy here in New Brunswick once and for all. This is really about the pandemic or is this something else you're trying to achieve?

BH: Oh it absolutely started because of the pandemic. I mean, that's the reason the original decision was made to minimize the risk.

CO: But now, is there something larger you're trying to achieve here?

BH: At this point, absolutely. Initially, it was all about we did it because of minimizing risk and then recognizing we had so many people unemployed at this time. But now you look at it and you say, wow, how could we possibly have this many people available to work but choose not to? There has to be a fundamental reason that we need to address.

CO: Okay so you want you Brunswickers to fill those jobs that have been held by foreign workers up to now for the most part?

BH: I would like to make the jobs attractive to the point were New Brunswickers or foreign workers would move here and live here and stay here. I mean, when someone tells me -- I had one example where someone said that I needed 48 foreign workers for every 12 New Brunswickers, you know, that's pretty sad.

CO: Is this really the time to be trying to do a kind of socio economic experiment? I mean is this the time to start trying to change things when we're having this upheaval right now because of the pandemic? These farmers and fisheries need the workers now. Maybe later you can work on these ideas.

BH: Well, I mean, firstly, yes, I want to be sure the farmers have their employees. So I agree that has to be first and foremost. But is this the time to change the page and finally fix chronic problems that have plagued our country? Absolutely. This is the time.

CO: Premier Higgs, we will leave it there and we'll be watching. Thank you so much.

BH: You're very welcome. Have a good day.

CH: Blaine Higgs is the Premier of New Brunswick. We reached him in Fredericton.

[Music]

Roe v Wade Documentary

Guest: Rob Schenck

CH: Norma McCorvey was a fundraiser's dream. As the woman at the centre of the landmark Roe v. Wade ruling in the United States in which she was called Jane Roe, Ms. McCorvey was once the face of the pro-choice cause. Then in the mid-90s, she had a stunning change of heart and became a vocal opponent of abortion and a very effective one, helping the movement raise a fortune to advocate against abortion. But now a new documentary reveals that Ms. McCorvey life was still more complicated than all that.

[sc]

NORMA MCCORVEY: This is my deathbed confession. It was 1969. I was pregnant and I was scared. These two attorneys were looking for a plaintiff to help overturn the Texas abortion laws. That was Roe vs. Wade. I'm Norma McCorvey, a.k.a. Jane Roe.

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CH: In the documentary AKA Jane Roe, premiering this week on FX, the late Norma McCorvey says that when she spoke out against abortion, she was a paid actor and a good one too. Reverend Rob Schenck is one of the people who paid her. He's a pastor who worked with Ms. McCorvey after her conversion to Christianity. We reached Reverend Schenck outside Washington, D.C..

CO: Reverend Schenck, what went through your mind when you heard Norma McCorvey say that her apparent change of heart on abortion was all an act?

ROB SCHENCK: Well, I can't say I was shocked. I was surprised because I hadn't heard her say anything quite like that in our times together, many times together. But I did know that Norma harboured doubts about the pro-life message she was telegraphing, as we all were then. But we all kind of were okay with that. And I thought, well, you know, so long as she keeps that to herself, what's important is the message that she's conveying to the public.

CO: But she was more than just ambivalent, and she reveals herself, she says in the documentary that if a woman wants to have an abortion, it's no skin off my behind, that's why we call it choice. It is her choice. And yet she was a powerful poster girl, poster woman for the anti-abortion movement that you were part of, was she not?

RS: She was. Norma was a very important name. And I'm sorry to say all these years later and I say so with a certain amount of personal pain that we saw her as a kind of trophy. I live with quite a bit of regret over that, but that's the way it was in those days.

CO: I guess in this documentary it's not just stunning to have this what she calls a deathbed confession, but it's that people like yourself are in this story to say that you have regrets about how she was used. Why so?

RS: Well, you know, first of all, I realized that I and others in the movement objectified her. We did not respect her as the complex individual that she was. Instead, we used her. I think she used us. It was something of a symbiotic relationship. But the fact that we were okay with that and that we were complicit in it, I have to own that now. And I think I'll probably spend the rest of my life trying to do a little repair for the damage that was done through that arrangement with her.

CO: When you call it damage, did you have any regrets at that time?

RS: No. No, I didn't. And I'm not aware of anyone that did. I think we saw the cause as bigger than the ethical dilemma that we were in. I have to be careful to say it wasn't quite as abject or cynical as it may sound. There was never a time when I thought, for example, that I was paying an actor. She uses that term in the film, but it wasn't. It worked both ways. She was getting something out of the arrangement and the movement was getting something important.

CO: Why do you think she made this deathbed confession?

RS: Well, you know, first of all, I look at Norma's life now and I knew her over the course of 21 years. And I look back now and realize that her entire conscious life was a bid for survival. From her very young days, suffering terrible abuse through her teenage years when she was raped and sexually assaulted repeatedly through a very violent, tumultuous, marriage. Through the years of Roe v. Wade. And then through her experience with the pro-choice movement, then the pro-life movement. These were all bids for personal survival. And so at the end, she gets to tell us that basically. And when she was being used, and it's hard for me to say, but I certainly perpetrated that. She was given a script. She wasn't able to speak for herself until the very end of her life.

CO: The movement that you were part of, that you recruited Norma to be part of was the anti-abortion movement. Hundreds, sometimes even more than that, people would be in front of abortion clinics, very intimidating for those young women who were going to get abortions. There were radical elements within that movement to kill abortion doctors, murder them. Why have you had a change of heart?

RS: Well, that's a long answer, because it took 10 years for me, but it was mostly by seeing the human agony that attends to the whole subject of abortion. But certainly the experiences of abortion. And I finally realized this is not a cause. This is not a political agenda. These are human beings in dilemmas. And I can't as a man especially, I can't even pretend to appreciate what a woman goes through in that moment of crisis. So I've come to the conclusion that as difficult as this is, a woman needs to make that decision as best she can. But I can't impose that decision on her because I will never sit in her place.

CO: As you know, right now in the United States, there is a strong return of that movement that would make it difficult, if not illegal, to obtain an abortion, to have choice. And what effect do you think this film, this documentary might have on cases coming up, including that of the Supreme Court?

RS: Well, I hope the parties involved on both sides will come away from this film, at least appreciating the complexity of it. And Norma McCorvey life illustrates that. She is the embodiment of complexity. And in the end, I would hope that that will help some to understand that we can't answer these questions with legislation, with law enforcement, with moralizing. These are deeply personal, painful and enormously complex matters of human experience. And I think Norma introduces us to that through her own layers of complexity.

CH: Reverend Schenck, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RS: Thank you.

CH: Reverend Rob Schenck is a one time anti-abortion advocate who appears in the new FX documentary, AKA Jane Roe. About the complicated life of Norma McCorvey. We reached Reverend Schenck just outside Washington, D.C.. And for more on this story, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

From our Archives: Phone Revenge

CH: Your call is important to them, but they're experiencing a higher than normal call volume. Here's the thing. I don't know what a corporate call centre's normal call volume is, but it seems like it's zero calls because every time I call a company, I'm put on hold and told I'm contributing to a surplus of calls they're shocked to be experiencing. And when you spend hours listening to voice prompts issued by a condescending robot instead of talking to a human, you're frustrated, but you're also resigned. I mean, what are you going to do? To Brian McConnell of Blacksburg, Virginia that was not a rhetorical question. When he couldn't get through to his bank by phone, he got through to it in a more cunning way. He created an automated customer complaint system. He told Michael Enright about it in 1993.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Mr. McConnell, you certainly seem to have struck a chord, indeed, in our office anyway, with this. Tell us what got you going on this voicemail thing.

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Well, I built systems like this for a living.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Oh, you know how they work then.

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Yeah, I know how they work. And basically, what happened this goes back to Columbus Day weekend. It was a Friday night. And I was just getting ready to go out with some friends and went to an automated teller machine to get some money and found that a mistake had been made with my account, it was a simple mistake, which can be corrected with the three minute conversation on the phone. But nevertheless, you know, there is no money in my account. And so I was unable to get anything and is now stuck. And so I figured, well, it's no big deal. I'll just call customer service at our new bank and get this straightened out. And about eight phone calls later to eight different numbers in two different states [laughter] unable to reach a human being, I kept getting put into their automated attendant, which technically the term in the industry that is interactive voice response, it's anything that you're doing with a touchtone phone. The term for that we need to get into one of these things and can't get out, it's called voicemail jail.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Voicemail jail. [Laughs]

BRIAN MCCONNELL: There was stuck in voicemail, jail. I couldn't get through to a human being and I couldn't even leave a message for someone. It was telling me basically, sorry, buddy, you're out of luck, you'll have to wait till the next business day.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: You went to through two states on this.

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Yeah. Because the bank is one of those interstate banks. It's enormously huge. And part of the argument for having such enormously huge banks is that they can provide all these services that the small town banks can't. And so anyway, I was unable to reach a human being. And so by Sunday night, what was originally a minor irritant had actually gotten to be quite a severe irritant, and I was about to ready to burn my telephone or do something.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Let me stop you there.

BRIAN MCCONNELL: The voices were saying, what, if you need this push two and all that stuff?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: These are all numbers you could call to check your account balance and that sort of thing. But when you press 0 for an operator for help, you know, this a kind of question that the computer can't answer for you when something is screwy with your account. I'd be put on hold or just told outright there's no one available. And after staying on hold for a while and then I'd be told you'll have to call back during business hours.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: So you never did get a human being?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Never got a human being. Couldn't even leave a message for someone so that could get a call back.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: You're in voicemail jail. You're in a rage. What did you do?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Well, this is Sunday night. So I figured, well, it's no big deal. I'll just go into the branch office on Monday and vent at the first person I find for about a half hour [laughter] and maybe I'll feel better at that point. Well, then I called on Monday and it was Columbus Day, which, of course, in the U.S. anyway is a bank holiday so everybody else has to work, but the banks don't. So I called again and there I was in voicemail jail and that's when I snapped. And, you know, I mean, this is just too much. So what I did is I sat down and took equipment that we had. And in a couple hours put together a system which would systematically go through all the numbers I had to crawl through and just deliver an automated complaint.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: And what did the complaint say?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Well, when the phone rang for the person -- it didn't call the same place repeatedly, by the way, it would just call once. And whoever answered the phone who hear this is an automated customer complaint, if you would prefer a live customer complaint, press the star key on your touchtone telephone keypad now. And when they press the star button, it would put them on hold and tell them we're sorry, but this customer isn't available to complain in person right now.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: This would go through all the numbers that you had to go through when you were in voicemail jail?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Yeah, I just had it set up to call each of the numbers and when a person answered the line, it would it would play that message.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: How do you know that the message wasn't being answered by another message machine?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Because if it was calling their auto attendant it was saying if there is a person answering the phone at this time, press the button. Otherwise, this message will repeat until hell freezes over.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: [Laughter] All right. How did the bank respond to all this?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Well, I personally called on the local branch, I was able to get everything settled. So, I mean, staying with the bank I'm at now, but it didn't it still didn't really solve the problem of there not being a customer service, you know, off hours. This all started as just a personal protest. I did this about a week and a half ago, didn't mention it to anyone, but the local paper figured it out from a friend of mine. And so here we are. And once the press picked it up, I got a call from the headquarters in Charlotte, which is one of the places where a lot of the calls went to, they were very apologetic, wondering if there's anything they could do, I simply explained just have someone around to answer the phone when someone's in a jam.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Did they offer you a toaster, anything or a barbecue?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: No, no, no, no, no pandering or anything. It was just -- I wouldn't how to characterize the call. This whole experience has been quite bizarre.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Well, what do we do? We don't know what you know about computers. I had to phone the university last week and it took about 10 or 15...and I never did get through to a human being ever. Now, what can we do in a situation like that?

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Well, it depends on the kind of organization you're calling. As a general rule, any automated attendant like that is generally made so if you press 0 for an operator, it's supposed to transfer you to an operator. That's almost an unwritten rule in the industry. Or you just pretend you're calling from a rotary phone and don't touch anything. And eventually, if you wait long enough, it'll transfer to somewhere. That's assuming that they have any human beings answering the phone. [Laughter] If they don't, you're in voicemail jail.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Mr. McConnell, thank you for telling us about it.

BRIAN MCCONNELL: Thank you.

CHRIS HOWDEN: From our archives, there was Michael Enright talking to Brian McConnell, who created an automated phone system to complain about his banks automated phone system. And by the way, here are a few of the prompts that frustrated bank staff would have heard while trying to get through to Mr. McConnell.

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AUTOMATED VOICE PROMPT: This is an automated customer complaint. If you would prefer to hear a live customer complaint, press the star key on your touch tone telephone now. That's the key located directly under the 7. [Beep sound] The customer is unable to personally complain at this time. Please hold. Thank you for your patience. Your valued customer will be with you in just a moment. Please hold. And thank you again for your patience. Your valued customer is still unable to come to the phone to personally complain. Please stay on the line for a recorded complaint message. Thank you for your patience.

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[Music]

Part 2: NYC doctor who delayed retirement to help his community during the pandemic dies of COVID-19

Gilgamesh Tablet Returned

Guest: Joel Baden

CH: For the Museum of the Bible, it was a find of biblical proportions. In 2014, the U.S. company Hobby Lobby paid $2.3 million for the museum to acquire a Sumerian tablet containing part of the oldest surviving work of literature, The Epic of Gilgamesh. Now the U.S. government has asked a court to order the company to forfeit the tablet after it was discovered to have been pilfered from Iraq. The company has agreed to comply. This is not the first time that Hobby Lobby has been accused of turning a blind eye to the dubious sources of the artifacts it's been buying to fill the museum. It's already had to return a trove of objects that were stolen from Egypt and Iraq. Joel Baden is a professor of the Hebrew Bible at the Yale Divinity School. We reached him in New Haven, Connecticut.

CO: Professor Baden, why is this work so important?

JOEL BADEN: Well, the Gilgamesh tablet that the Museum of the Bible had on display isn't in itself a particularly important piece certainly in biblical terms. It has nothing to do with the Bible whatsoever. But it's part of this larger epic, the Gilgamesh epic, which is widely considered to be maybe the first sort of great work of epic literature, certainly from the near eastern area, major Mesopotamian classic translated passed down over millennia that in part at least is the background for things like the biblical flood story.

CO: What is this artifact actually look like? Can you describe it?

JB: Yeah. It's some piece of baked clay, so it's very hard [chuckles] sort of like a gingerbread cookie. You know, it's not enormously big. I mean, we're talking about probably the size of your hand or maybe a little bit bigger. Covered on one side with cuneiform writing, which is this, you know, very small, wedge shaped, very difficult to read script of ancient Mesopotamia.

CO: And how did it end up in the hands of those who own the arts and crafts chain called Hobby Lobby?

JB: [Chuckles] Well, as you are probably aware that Hobby Lobby started collecting antiquities related to the Bible in about 2009 with the intention of putting them into what is now the Museum of the Bible. So they were looking for all sorts of artifacts that had anything to do with the Bible from ancient ancient Mesopotamian texts like this all the way down to things like Elvis Presley's Bible. Now, they purchased this particular piece from the auction house Christie's. Where Christie's got it from, that's where it becomes a little bit of a muddled story. Christie's bought it from some antiquities dealer, then it sort of gets very fuzzy and shady back there. Essentially, this piece came out of Iraq sometime between the 80s and the 2000, it is actually not at all clear when, and through a series of forged provenance documents and a lack of oversight and probably a desire on the part of a lot of parties to make money off of it, it made its way from hand to hand eventually it's been published by some scholars, academics, journalists and then to Christie's who sold it to Museum of the Bible or Hobby Lobby in a private sale in 2014.

CO: Okay. So the provenance is pretty murky, isn't it? So what were would the claims? What did Hobby Lobby claim was the means for having acquired this artifact?

JB: Well, Hobby Lobby essentially trusted Christie's to have done the provenance work on this. Christie's tested that the provenance was okay. But Christie's didn't do any of the work to make sure that what they had actually represented at its provenance was accurate. In fact, they seem to have figured out that it wasn't accurate relatively early and sold it off anyway. For Hobby Lobby's part, they also sort of blindly trusted Christie's to accurately represented the provenance of the case. And then when they sort of started looking into its provenance themselves three years after they purchased it, they immediately realized that the provenance was bad also.

CO: But did Hobby Lobby immediately, once it realized that, turn it over to the proper authorities?

JB: Evidently not. So the chain of Hobby Lobby timelike here doesn't look great for them. You know, they're making the case that they were victims, but they purchased it in 2014 clearly without doing the due diligence work of research. And it's only three years later in 2017, which happens to be when they were publicly busted for another major issue with Mesopotamian artifacts. So in 2017 they said, oh, maybe we should look into the provenance of these things. And then they discovered they had that provenance and they only had it last year, in 2019 when the artifact left their possession and not willingly right, the U.S. government just came and seized it from the museum physically and it's only now it's being formally patriated.

CO: There are so many very important and valuable artifacts that have been pilfered from Iraq in recent years. Now that the federal authorities in United States have announced this forfeiture of this sale, this tablet, does it send a message that perhaps the international police are going to start taking this more seriously, what happened to Iraq's treasures?

JB: You'd like to think so. It's hard to say, right? This is one artifact that took five years to go from its sale to Hobby Lobby to its sort of requisitioned by the government. You know, the U.S. government can only track those things that it knows about. Hobby Lobby's artifacts -- most of Hobby Lobby artifacts, I guess, aren't really that publicly known. This one happen to because on display in a museum in Washington, D.C. But the vast vast majority of Mesopotamian artifacts coming out of Iraq are never get to see the public light of day that this one did. So, you know, the government has to get very lucky to catch somebody either bringing it in illegally or catch something, a missing paperwork somewhere. So much of the antiquities trade happened entirely in secret behind closed doors. And the fact is, even Christie's major public auction has sort of got away with selling off really badly provenanced artifact for many many years. So I'm not willing to be super optimistic that this is going to halt the antiquities trade or the looting that's happening. As long as there are individual, you know, private folks who are willing to put up the money to buy these sorts of things, and as long as there are scholars who are interested in studying them, there's going to be a market.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Professor Baden thank you.

JB: My pleasure. Thanks.

CH: Joel Baden is a professor of the Hebrew Bible at the Yale Divinity School. We reached him in New Haven, Connecticut.

[Music]

Captain Tom Moore

CH: He can walk, but he can't hide. Which is fine because he doesn't really want to. Captain Tom Moore has become an unlikely hero of the pandemic in England. You know him as the war veteran who completed 100 laps around his rather large yard at a pretty brisk gait before his 1 100th birthday in April. Captain Moore was hoping to raise a bit of money for the fight against coronavirus. He achieved his goal and all that walking in circles raised a dizzying amount of dough, the equivalent of about $55 million. He's become a symbol of the kind of strength and discipline the queen herself has called for in the time of COVID-19. And that is why she's coming for him. Captain Tom Moore was recently advised by letter that he will soon be knighted. All of which the sir in-waiting seems to find sir-real. Here's Captain Tom Moore talking to BBC TV's Breakfast this morning.

TOM MOORE: I'm not sure it's rather different. I mean to get this honour is so outstanding that I really can't say how different I feel, but I certainly feel that I've been given a very outstanding honour by the Queen and the prime minister. And I thank them all very much. I'm certainly delighted and overawed by the fact that this has happened to me.

REPORTER: And I understand it you knew because a letter arrived at home. When you first saw that letter, what did you think?

TOM MOORE: I thought this can't be true. I've always said this won't happen. And now it appears it actually happened. But I certainly would never have anticipated that that letter would arrive for me.

REPORTER: And we're not sure entirely when you'll actually get to receive this honour. Hopefully from the queen herself. What sort of surprise will that be and what a day that will be for you and the family?

TOM MOORE: I'm looking forward to that. I hope she is not very heavy handed with the sword. [Laughter] By then I might be rather a poor old weak soul.

CH: Soon to be knighted Captain Tom Moore speaking to the BBC today. And there is no word yet on when the queen will make it official.

[Music]

Dr. James Mahoney Obit

Guest: Robert Foronjy

CH: At the beginning of this year, James Mahoney went on a cruise. His sister told The Washington Post that it was in part an early retirement celebration, but Dr. Mahoney never made it to retirement. Last month, the 62 year old died after catching the coronavirus. He'd been working at University Hospital of Brooklyn. Now he's being remembered as a doctor who went out of his way to help his patients and colleagues. In an interview with The New York Times, one of his former medical students called him our Jay-Z. Describing him as someone he could look up to as a young black man. Dr. Robert Foronjy is the chief of pulmonary and critical care medicine at the hospital and was Dr. James Mahoney's boss. We reached Dr. Foronjy in Brooklyn.

CO: Dr. Foronjy, how are people at your hospital responding to the death of Dr. Mahoney?

ROBERT FORONJY: I think everyone's taken it very hard. He was the heart and soul of this institution and everybody from all walks of life, from all stations in the hospital in the medical centre, knew him and loved him. This was his second home for him. And we were his families. So this loss is really difficult to fathom and process.

CO: His sister mentioned that he had opportunities throughout his career to go to larger, wealthier hospitals. He could have gone other places, but he stayed where he had interned. He stayed where he had studied. He stayed for the years at your hospital in Brooklyn. Why was the hospital so important to him?

RF: I think he just had a strong connection to this community. It's largely an African-American and Afro-Caribbean community. A very deserving patient population. And he was a man of faith. And he got satisfaction in life out of helping people. And this was a community that he saw in need. And he made a difference. He made people's lives here better. He provided world class medical care. And you're right, he could have gone to many other medical centres, some that have more resources than we have here. But he really chose to stay and serve this community that he loves so much.

CO: And he was ready more or less to retire, wasn't he? He had gone on a cruise, the Caribbean cruise with his family. He was getting ready at the age of 62 to pack in a really trying career. He had gone through the HIV AIDS epidemic. He was there for 9/11. He was there for swine flu. He'd seen everything else in between. He was ready to go. Why did he decide that he had to stay to deal with COVID-19?

RF: If I told you his schedule, you would not believe it. He worked day and night, so he retired from the night job that he had. He was stepping down from that night position. He was going to continue in a lesser capacity here at downstate. But even if he had gone into retirement, I'm convinced he would have found a way to get back on the front lines for this pandemic because he knew people were in need and he would not sit on the sidelines. At the beginning of the pandemic, I'm the chief of the division, I brought all the attendings in, we had a meeting, I basically said, if anybody wants to step out or if this becomes too much, just let me know. And it's not going to be easy. But, you know, we'll provide coverage. And he would've been the last person to ask out. He knew people were in need. And that's all he needed to know. And he really made a difference. He was the attending in the ICU when the first wave hit us, and he worked tirelessly. I knew he was exhausted, but I knew he took great pride in what he was doing and felt a tremendous sense of satisfaction.

CO: We know that there were problems in New York with proper PPE, proper protective equipment, for people. Did you have what you needed at the hospital? Did he have what he needed?

RF: You could always find it. Where it could become difficulties, maybe in an emergency situation. There wouldn't be PPE outside of every patient's room. Let's say a patient was in distress or cardiac arrest, maybe you would have to run down the hallway, grab PPE,put it on and then run back. You know, Dr. Mahoney, he would wear a mask, he would wear gloves. But if it meant running down the hallway to get PPE, he would rather run into the patient's room.

CO: Were you aware that he was sick with the virus?

RF: He got sick about the first week of April. And he texted us and said hey I think I got this thing, I'm going to have to take time off now. And we're like, no worries, we got you covered. And I would text him back and forth. How are you doing? How's the breathing? He'd be like, no problem. Breathing's good, 98 percent. You know, he was like, the fevers are pretty bad, but his breathing was fine. And then about a week after, which is kind of typical for this COVID-19, he got hit with respiratory complaints. And even then he had to be prompted to call me. And he was like, well, you know, I'm just feeling a little more short of breath. And I said, you know, we used to call him Charlie -- I said Charlie, just come in, we'll admit you to the unit, we'll watch you closely. And he was still kind of reluctant, but eventually we convinced him to come in. That was at three o'clock. I was waiting for him in the ED, not two hours later. And he barely made it in. In fact, later he had no recollection of how he made it from his house to the emergency department. He had deteriorated so quickly, which is, again, something that's really frightening about this disease, how quickly people can decompensate. And we, you know, on a hundred percent action, we were struggling to keep his oxygen saturation at 80 percent and eventually with the aid of a machine, a bypass machine, which is sort of a ventilator that works through a mask instead of putting a tube down the throat, we were able to get his oxygen level up to a safe level in the 90s. And he kind of stayed there for a week in the ICU. And I'm glad we had those moments to spend with each other. We spent a lot of time that week. You know, I held his hand, told him how much I loved him, everybody loved him, he reciprocated that. And so, you know, I'm thankful that we had that time to let everyone know, Let him know how much everyone cared about him.

CO: I appreciate you telling us about Dr. Mahoney. He sounds like a marvelous man.

RF: He was a man of such a great heart. He was so dedicated to his patients. They had his cell phone number. He was so dedicated to his colleagues. He was instrumental in training so many doctors. And his legacy is going to live on through his family, through us and through the people he trained who are all over the country, in some cases, all over the world, providing humanistic quality care, which they learned under Dr. Mahoney.

CO: Dr. Foronjy thank you so much.

RF: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.

CO: Thank you. Bye bye.

RF: All right. Take care.

CH: Dr. Robert Foronjy was Dr. James Mahoney's colleague and friend. We reached him in Brooklyn. And you can find more on this story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Wu-Tang Clan

CH: Sometimes help comes from unexpected places. Ottawa, like so many other places, is seeing hard times. Demand of the city's food bank has been way up. But fundraising for the food bank is also way up, thanks to the Wu-Tang Clan. How, you may ask, did the American Hip-Hop collective come into the picture? Well, Mustafa Shaikh co-founded the record label 36 Chambers with Rza of Wu-Tang. Mr. Shaikh was working with the founder of a cannabis company in the Ottawa area called Hexo. And as he explained to CBC Ottawa, things just got rolling from there.

MUSTAFA SHAIKH: Wu-Tang has played in Blues Fest plenty of time. So there's that natural connection. And 36 Chambers, we actually did some work with Hexo up there and that's how we kind of got connected with Adam Marone. And Adam reached out to see if we actually -- we knew Canadian media personality, one of your colleagues actually, George Strombo, he wanted to see if we can connect him with George to have George retweet it. And instead we just hopped on an internal Wu and we're like, hey, guys, like, should we spread the word here and make a donation? And it was a resounding yes. And it was just a small act. You know, we didn't think that was going to blow up to what it was. And it was just out of love for Adam. It was a cause that he was passionate about for his city. And it was just so inspiring for us to see how many people had donated as a result of our donation.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: And has Rza over signed off on a donation like this before?

MUSTAFA SHAIKH: I mean, Rza has made plenty of donations, including one that he's kind of kept under wraps for the city of New York during COVID. But in terms of using the Wu-Tang logo, he's never used the Wu-Tang logo in this capacity. And it actually took me you know, it took a few conversations for us to make sure that we were presenting it right and doing it the proper way. And, you know, I think we're all excited that Rza was on board and gave the approval to use the Wu-Tang logo to help support the Ottawa Foodbank, as well as the other charities involved.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: The fact that you're talking to us from New York and you're doing, you know, helping with all these local initiatives. I mean, what has this taught you about just the cooperation between countries, between cities, between organizations right now?

MUSTAFA SHAIKH: I think it's just so interesting about how one act of generosity can inspire another act of generosity. And, you know, the initial push from Harley inspired Adam, Adam inspired us that inspired so many other people in Ottawa. And those people in Ottawa inspired us to do this collaboration with the city. And so I think in this time, it's so hard for us to feel like we're in control of anything. And so I think it's just so valuable to remember that we still have the ability to inspire each other. Whether you buy a shirt from us or whether you just donate directly to the Ottawa food bank, it doesn't matter to us. Everyone should feel empowered to make it an act of generosity if you're capable of doing that. And it has the power to inspire others to also share their good fortune.

CH: Mustafa Shaikh co-founded the record label 36 Chambers with Rza of the Wu-Tang Clan. He was speaking with Robyn Bresnahan, host of CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning, about their partnership with Ottawa's Foodbank.

[Music]

Part 3: COVID-19 is about to hit Haiti hard, and aid workers say the country is not ready

Dominican/Haiti COVID

Guest: Sandra Lamarque

CH: In Haiti, there is zero doubt among health experts about the risks of COVID-19, an outbreak in that country would be impossible to contain. Now those same experts are fearing the worst. For weeks, thousands of workers have been forced to return to Haiti from its neighbour, the Dominican Republic. And that country has had the highest number of COVID-19 cases in the Caribbean. Sandra Lamarque is the head of Mission for Doctors Without Borders in Haiti. This weekend, they opened a hospital dedicated to COVID-19 patients. We reached Ms. Lamarque in Port-au-Prince.

CO: Sandra, can you give us an idea of how many Haitians have actually now returned from the Dominican Republic since the outbreak?

SANDRA LAMARQUE: So it is estimated that 20,000 movements are happening every week between the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In those movements, you have Haitian workers that have returned to Haiti because they lost employment opportunities in Dominican Republic. But you also have daily movements of Haitians crossing the border to Dominican Republic for business, trade, or casual work. And they may be coming back on the same day or a few days later.

CO: Do you have any idea -- is there any testing, any way of knowing how many there may be carrying COVID-19?

SL: Unfortunately, no. So the border, as you may know, is three hundred and sixty kilometres long between the two countries. You have over hundred informal crossing points and only a small number of official crossing points. At these informal crossing points, there is no screening or testing ongoing. And even at the formal crossing points being able to set up proper screening and isolation or quarantine took a long time. It was not done right from the beginning of the outbreak in DR or in Haiti.

CO: And given the size of the outbreak, we know that's in DR, which is the largest one in the region, Dominican Republic, what are your greatest fears for what might happen to Haiti as people come back from the DR, as they're being forced to leave?

SL: Well, we're definitely worried that some COVID cases have been and will continue being imported. And what we observe at the moment in Haiti is actually that the local transmission has increased a lot. In the past 24 hours, we've had almost 100 new cases, which is unprecedented for an outbreak in Haiti. So it's now increasing really fast. We have huge local transmission.

CO: And how well is Haiti equipped to deal with a major outbreak of this disease?

SL: Haiti is not equipped to deal with such an outbreak. At the moment, we estimate that there are 250 beds available, especially to treat people with infection with COVID-19. This is not enough. And there are only 100 ventilators. So setting up intensive care unit for severe patients of COVID-19 would be extremely challenging, to say the least.

CO: We know that the health system in Haiti was already weak before it got hit with that earthquake in 2010 and large parts of it have never really recovered. So where do people go if they are feeling the symptoms or suspect that they have it? Where can they get help?

SL: Well, this is the main concern is that people do not necessarily seek health care or they do not seek health care on time. We opened, just to give you an example, we opened a COVID hospital last Saturday. And on the first day of opening, we received a patient who unfortunately died five minutes after being admitted in our emergency ward. This is extremely worrying. People are afraid of getting tested. They're afraid of seeking health care and they're afraid of being stigmatized or even attacked.

CO: After the earthquake in 2010, there followed a major outbreak of cholera. And also people just felt that they couldn't trust the system. Is it bringing back memories, do you think, for people of the cholera outbreak?

SL: Absolutely. There are some mechanisms that happened in 2010 and we see the exact same mechanisms happening again today. So what we saw in 2010 is that people initially at the initial phase of the outbreak, there were a lot of cholera treatment centres that were attacked because people were worried that the facility itself would be the factor of the disease in their community. And this is something that we observed again today in a town called Jacmel, the facility that had been identified for the isolation of suspected cases was burned down. And we've seen recently in Port-au-Prince that an institution was willing to set up a COVID facility but the neighbouring community protested against that and maybe made some threats, and so the institution had to put their plan on standby.

CO: So if the Doctors Without Borders has opened a hospital dedicated to COVID-19 patients, what are your concerns for the safety of that centre?

SL: So before setting up our hospital, we worked for about a month and a half just on communication with the community surrounding the hospital, trying to explain all the precautions that we are taking in terms of patient flow, in terms of protection equipment, in terms of waste management. Before the hospital opened we offered community leaders to visit the hospital. We also made a movie and we broadcasted the movie in the community. So I think that if you take the necessary precautions and of course you need to go a bit slowly, you may overcome the most of the risks and most of the fear.

CO: At the same time as you know, better than I, you have many areas of Haiti and in the capital that are very poor. Access and ability to have proper hygiene is extremely difficult and the physical distancing is almost impossible. So how bad could the situation get in Haiti?

SL: Yes, absolutely. On top of this, we should also say that the barrier measures, as we call them, that worked in other context, such as having people stay at home or avoid gatherings, these measures are not being implemented in Haiti. People cannot afford to stay home. They need to go out and work for their daily income. It makes things even more challenging. And this is why we believe that local transmission is actually extremely high already in parts of the country.

CO: Sandra you have your work cut out for you. This sounds like a very very difficult time for you and the doctors who are working there. I appreciate that you found time to speak with us. Thank you.

SL: Thank you.

CH: Sandra Lamarque is the head of Mission for Doctors Without Borders in Haiti. We reached her in Port-au-Prince and we've got more on that story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Lezlie Lowe

CH: Living in the confines of your quarantine bubble, it might feel like you have no place to go. Lezlie Lowe worries that feeling won't change, even as some cities across the country start to open up. Ms. Lowe is a journalist and the author of No Place to Go: How Public Toilets Fail Our Private Needs. And she says the lack of access to public washrooms across Canada poses a serious problem as we start to open up public and retail spaces. Here's Lezlie Lowe speaking with CBC Ottawa.

LEZLIE LOWE: We need to be able to wash our hands when we're out, and we cannot expect viral infections to be stopped if we cannot wash our hands. And there are many other pieces of the puzzle of not touching your face, and at this point, social distancing is that staying two metres away from somebody else. But right from the get go, if every Canadian thinks back to the messaging they heard right from the very beginning of COVID when it hit Canada hard, what we were told was disinfect high touch surfaces, don't touch your face, wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. And I find it interesting that we're making these kind of Herculean efforts to reopen our cities, which is fantastic and necessary for economic growth. However, at the same time, we're also saying, you're not going to be able to use the bathrooms. And that really really inhibits people who are going to be out, you know, going to the street side businesses to pick things up. They're not going to be able to wash their hands if they don't have access to hand hygiene stations.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Do you think this will be the moment that changes the conversation around public washrooms?

LEZLIE LOWE: Oh, I so so hope so. In Canada, we rely on more than other countries, even the U.S., we rely on what I call publicly accessible toilets versus public toilets. And what I mean by that is I consider a public toilet something that is on street paid for by our taxes and that we consider in the kind of bucket of services that our taxes pay for, like streetlights and benches and trash cans and sidewalks, all the things that we understand are necessary for a fully functioning city. We don't have those very much in Canada. Instead, what we have are publicly accessible toilets, which would be I'm going to just nip in the Starbucks here or Tim Hortons or McDonald's. And right now, during COVID those at the toilets that are closed. And what I hope is that people are going to realize all of sudden, oh, my gracious, I've been relying on these commercially available customer toilets my whole life and this is not going to fly. And hopefully people will sort of understand how that can actually translate into thinking about the lives of other people who maybe can't rely on the Starbucks and the Tim Hortons and the McDonald's.

CH: That was Lesley Lowe, author of No Place to Go: How Public Toilets Fail Our Private Needs. She speaking with Robyn Bresnahan, host of Ottawa Morning yesterday about access to public washrooms during the pandemic.

[Music]

Puerto Rico Assistance

Guest: Giovanni Roberto

CH: Their homes were destroyed in Hurricane Maria. The lights were out for months and through the long recovery, a lot of people in Puerto Rico felt abandoned. The pandemic has brought those feelings flooding back. As people on the U.S. mainland begin to receive their unemployment cheques,. Puerto Rico has only managed to process 3000 out of 87000 requests for financial help. Meanwhile, desperation is setting in for families who are now struggling to buy food. Giovanni Roberto is an activist who runs a network of soup kitchens on the island. We reached him in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

CO: Giovanni just how badly are Puerto Ricans needing those unemployment cheques right now?

GIOVANNI ROBERTO: Really really bad. Some people have been approved, their unemployment went for one month or one month and a half, and they have not received anything at all yet. Some people have been called to go back to work and some people are working already again without receiving their unemployment cheque.

CO: Well, we just said that there are 3000 out of 87000 applications for that help. Only 3000 have been processed. Why is that?

GR: Well, after a couple of decades of privatisation and a full decade of austerity measure, the government is dismantled. The administrator of the government also only thinks about privatization. So the way we think the government should react is to increase the public service instead they only think about privatization.

CO: The Puerto Rican government is claiming that they don't have the technology up and running. That's the problem. Who do you blame?

GR: They use technology as an excuse. 70 percent of the people with food stamps, they were unable to use it. So around the Internet, there were a lot of photos of people that were in the supermarkets and they were unable to pay so they leave the cart full of food. And of course, they blame the system and the technique and the technology but the government is the one who we need to blame.

CO: Wow. First of all, they are not getting the are cheques that they need, the money they need. Their food stamp cards don't work. What are people getting to eat?

GR: Well, they are going to projects like the one I run. They go to the Banco Alimentar here in Puerto Rico. And people are desperate. You know, some people come here to our place desperately. Some people are really angry. And I guess there's a lot of people who are not eating.

CO: The stories you're getting from families is that they don't have anything to feed their kids?

GR: Yes. Most of the people, they only have food for five days. If there's not like project like ours who are giving food supplies, you know, after five days, they will not have food to eat.

CO: There are some reports that NPR did that there are people saying that they only had water to give to their kids. They had nothing left at the end of the week to feed them. What are some of the stories you're hearing?

GR: A woman and her husband came last week, you know, they started demanding for food supplies because they have nothing in their fridge and they have two kids. And that's a story that we hear a lot, with people, all people that are abandoned by the government, that they only have food for two days or whatever. So that's the story that's repeated and repeated by people.

CO: But your supplies are supposed to just fill in the cracks between programs that should exist. Do you have enough resources and food to keep up with the demand you're getting?

GR: No way. We only have money to buy food for six weeks. Now we have like crowd-funding on our webpage, trying to keep the work running for more than six weeks. The maximum per week that we are attending is that 700 people, 700 families. But one day we received more than 700 calls. And we receive calls two days a week. So probably half of the people that need food, we are not able to attend them. And these are people that are waiting for the food stamps, waiting for the unemployment cheques, waiting for the twelve hundred federal stimulus to get to their bank accounts. You know, people recognize, if they have the unemployment cheque they would not be calling us because they would have the money to go to the grocery store. So it is a consequence of the incompetence of the government that people are starving.

CO: But those cheques are arriving in the hands of people in mainland United States that it seems to be working there. I remember during and after Hurricane Maria, we heard the stories of just how badly Puerto Rico was treated by Washington. You just didn't get the support you needed. Do you feel like you're in a repeat of that movie?

GR: Yeah. And this is a story that is repeating again. They are like using different protocols to give the money to our secretary. And they are like demanding a lot of the process that they are not demanding from the people in the United States. So it is clear, that they're treating us in a different way, you know, since the beginning of this crisis, because we got to see it after Hurricane Maria.

CO: After Hurricane Maria, it was so difficult. There was so much destruction, so little support, so little reinforcement for people there to recover. How do you keep going so soon after, you're dealing with this pandemic?

GR: Well, people are counting on other people. There's a lot of community organizing. There's a lot of mutual aid organizations that have been established after Hurricane Maria. We established a centre after Hurricane Maria, and now we are using this centre to actually work in the middle of this pandemic. So people know that we only count on people to people help. It's not myself who is saying this. I listen to the people in the lines. And that's what people say. You know, we can not count anymore on our government. We need to count on the people itself.

CO: Giovanni I'm glad that you're there for so many people. And I appreciate that you speak with us. Thank you.

GR: Thank you. Thank you.

CH: Giovanni Roberto was an activist who runs a network of soup kitchens in Puerto Rico. We reached him in San Juan.

[Music]

Spencer Tunick

Guest: Spencer Tunick

CH: For the past two and a half decades, Spencer Tunick has used his camera to capture the naked truth and the truth about nakedness. Over the years, the American photographer has produced a number of large scale group photos where hundreds or thousands of people gather together in the nude. Everywhere, from Montreal to the Sydney Opera House and the Dead Sea. Now, with the pandemic, Mr. Tunick is taking his work to a new frontier. Over the past few weeks, he's been shooting group nudes via video conferencing for a project called Stay Apart Together. On Friday, we reached Mr Tunick in Ramapo, New York.

CO: Spencer, who will you be photographing later today?

SPENCER TUNICK: I'll be photographing two nurses, one from Brooklyn and the other from Sydney, Australia.

CO: And what other shots have you taken?

ST: I've photographed two lovers that can't access each other. One is in Berlin and the other is in Mexico. And I've been working with them sometimes 25 people at one time and sometimes 49 from Syria to Sweden. [Chuckles]

CO: Wow. Anyone who's seen your regular work which you usually do, which is you somehow inspire hundreds or sometimes even thousands of people to come out and take part in being completely naked together in all kinds of public spaces. But in the age of COVID-19, obviously not possible. So what does this new series of photos look like? How is it different?

ST: Well, over the past 25 years, I've done a nude group work at least once a year. And I was kind of devastated because I had a good streak going. And so I have a friend in the Yucatan in Mexico who called me and said, have you ever thought of doing nude group works on video conferencing platforms? He said to me, you know, we'll organize it.

CO: And so he was able to organize the people, the way it's being done? Who actually found the subjects for you?

ST: Well, he can't find more than three naked people. But I no, I did. [Laughter] I have a list of around 50000 people that want to pose for me naked. And I emailed my list. And so thousands of people contacted him. And so he's been collecting people and choosing people. And I've been orchestrating the artworks on these video conferencing chats.

CO: I have to ask lots of questions about how you have 50000 people who want to do something that many of us would never dream of doing. But we have to focus on your new work. Are the people who have volunteered for this part of it to do this online, do they have different motivation than those who appear in the great big group shots?

ST: Yes. One person is recovering from breast cancer, and it's a way for her to represent as a whole person and in a healed way. And then another person is from Syria and she wants to pose because it's her way of being free and it's not outdoors so hopefully there's no chance of being arrested. And so people can really feel more comfortable being nude in a group. But also people are doing it because, you know, right now for people to take their minds off of this horror, they're mostly watching Netflix or having normal video conferences and Skypes. And so this is an opportunity, I think, for people to actually make art over these video conferencing platforms and to be part of something communal.

CO: And is it difficult to direct people when you have to do it online as you are?

ST: Actually, it's easier, believe it or not. Because when I touch my mouse, everyone's names show up. And so I'm able to communicate with Rashad by saying, hey, Rashad, put your arm down, move to the left. Hello Anna. Please, you know, come closer. Don't smile. Turn your head a little bit. Lower your laptop screen. And so the only comparison would be me outside in public with 100 nude people writing their names on their bodies with paint.

CO: And as you say, you've been doing this for 25 years. And there's all these different really extraordinary scenes that you have of all these naked bodies together. When you put this year's contribution in with all the others, what do you think it will say about this particular time?

ST: Well, in these hard times of isolation and quarantine, people still want to go beyond their limits and get naked and communicate through visual art, through the body. People are posing, I think, and want to be remembered for this moment as being part of something, you know, being a community within the chaos. And so it's just a sign of resilience and life.

CO: And of course some of these pictures you'd never have in another one of your exhibitions because the people are wearing masks in some of them. Why did you want to do it that way?

ST: Well, I only wanted people to wear masks if they weren't N95 masks or surgical masks, just homemade masks and masks that they would normally wear when exiting their homes. I just thought it made a surreal aspect to the times. And some of the masks are quite beautiful and it shows the identity of the person as far as how creative they might be. Most of them are handmade and some are wearing scarfs and bandanas.

CO: It's interesting. Is the only article of clothing you've ever had your subjects wear? [Chuckles]

ST: Exactly. That's true. And so, you know, I wish it wasn't with masks in a way. I wish we weren't in these times. And people would be in front of me, you know, on a street in front of the White House protesting Trump, you know, instead of masks, possibly with their taxes, throwing them up in the air. But, you know, who knows? You know, this time will pass, hopefully. I just hope I'll get through it.

CO: When and how will we be able to see this work when it's done?

ST: I'm exhibiting all the works for now on my Instagram, just because it's the magazine of the world right now, and that's how people are communicating visually. And so it'll be on Instagram now and then in the future hopefully I'll exhibit them in a gallery or museum.

CO: Very interesting. Spencer it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

ST: Thank you so much.

CH: Spencer Tunick is the photographer behind the Stay Apart Together project. We reached him in Rampone, New York. And you can see all his work on his Instagram page. Just search his name and the handle @SpencerTunick.

[Music]

Canada’s first radio broadcast

CH: On May 20th, 1920, a crowd gathered at Ottawa's Chateau Laurier Hotel to listen to a concert and it must have been magic. Soprano Dorothy Lutton sung "Believe me if all those enduring young charms" filled the Chateau's ballroom. But Ms. Lutton wasn't in the ballroom. She wasn't even in Ottawa. She was in Montreal. That concert 100 years ago today marked Canada's first radio broadcast. To celebrate, we'd like to play you that recording. Unfortunately, our archivists think it might be lost for good, but they did unearth what came next from Canada's Diamond Jubilee seven years late, this is the first coast to coast broadcast. Here's Chairman George P. Graham addressing the crowd.

GEORGE P. GRAHAM: On behalf of the executive committee of the Diamond Jubilee celebrations, permit me to express its gratitude to their excellencies, the prime minister and the government of Canada, the prime minister and governments of the various provinces and the thousands of people who have so enthusiastically joined in making this historic occasion an unparalleled success. We have with us distinguished men and women who are gladly aiding by taking part in the program in making this an event long to be remembered. They are not only speaking to you in Ottawa, but they are sending their messages through radio to the world. Never before has there been such an attempt at global circling broadcasting as that which is being participated in today and tonight.

[Brass Band Plays O Canada]

CH: From July 1st, 1927, that was a clip of Canada's first coast-to-coast radio broadcast. Today marks 100 years since Canada's first ever radio broadcast on May 20th, 1920.

May 20, 2020 Episode Transcript

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