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The AIH Transcript for February 3, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Going against extremes. Canada adds some violent white supremacists to its official list of terrorist entities. But despite the apparent haste, Public Safety Minister Bill Blair tells us the decision was a long time coming.

CH: Lost decade. The daughter of a Bahraini activist arrested during the Arab Spring uprising tells us how her father is coping behind bars and why he hasn't given up hope for democratic change.

CO: Police told her she was acting like a child. The nine year old girl they pepper sprayed told them "I am a child". Now, her words are a rallying cry for those demanding reforms for the Rochester police.

CH: Born to run after wrapping up 32 marathons in 31 days. Comedian Eddie Izzard is already making plans for her next race. She's setting her sights on becoming Britain's first transgender MP.

CO: Live and Learn. A student at a Montreal University had some questions for his online professor, but when he tried to ask them, he found out his school had failed to mention the professor was dead.

CH: And a star is not yet born. An exciting new musician is set to release her first album, recorded while she was the artist in residence in her mother's uterus. As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that just wants to curl up in the fetal composition.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Bill Blair: Terror List

Bill Blair: Terror List

Guest: Bill Blair

CH: They all claim pride, but it's really prejudice. This afternoon, Bill Blair, the public safety minister, announced that four white supremacist groups would now be designated as terror groups under the criminal code. They include the Proud Boys, the Base and the Nazi outfit wearing Atomwaffen division. The move follows the storming of the U.S. Capitol and a parliamentary appeal for action against the Proud Boys and their ilk. But Mr. Blair insists that today's editions are not about politics. We reached Bill Blair, the public safety minister in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Blair, these groups have been active in Canada and recruiting in the Canadian armed forces for quite some time. What can you tell us about the timing? Why now?

BILL BLAIR: Yes, ma'am. And I agree that their activities over the past three or four years have been deeply concerning to us. And I agree. I share your concern with their efforts to recruit from within the military and from within law enforcement. We've been gathering evidence and intelligence about them for some considerable period of time. They have always been under careful scrutiny of our national security, intelligence agencies and law enforcement. But we've reached the threshold of evidence now, which I believe reaches that threshold of reasonable probable grounds to believe they should be listed as a terrorist entity. And that's why we're taking this important step.

CO: All right. You say, it's entirely based on law and evidence, not on politics. But we know that Canadian lawmakers last week in parliament, they passed a motion urging your government to immediately designate the Proud Boys as a terrorist entity. So what effect did that political pressure have on your decision?

BB: I have to tell you, actually none. It has to have no influence on this decision. And Carol, I understand the political context, but I have responsibilities as the minister responsible to ensure that this process is done properly. And this process requires the gathering of intelligence and evidence and that it meets an important legal threshold. That work has been underway for a considerable period of time, several months. I also want to acknowledge the recent events around and following the American election did provide us with a trove of new evidence in our discussions and consultations with U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies. I think these groups have done a lot to reveal themselves, not only in their violent intent, but in their violent actions. And there's been a very serious escalation of that violence and that violent intent. There's a number of criminal investigations underway, but it has provided us with that threshold of evidence that's important. And again, I acknowledge that many Canadians have been concerned about this. It is an issue of public concern. But at the same time, I think it's really important for all Canadians to understand that this is an important legal process because it has legal consequences.

CO: But I wonder what evidence you have. What can you tell us about the evidence you have that this has happened in Canada? The groups you have cited, including Proud Boys and Atomwaffen division. We have seen activities they seem to have been doing in the United States. What is your evidence that they have crossed that threshold here in Canada?

BB: These organizations actually their activities don't respect international borders and have involved people in Canada and represent a threat to Canada. And Carol, I know you'll understand I can't discuss some of that very sensitive intelligence or evidence of ongoing criminal investigations that are currently underway. But I can tell you, there's a great deal of information and evidence, some open source, some of the quite sensitive that has been gathered. And that preponderance of evidence clearly demonstrates that these organizations are engaged in activities and an escalation of violence that goes well beyond just merely hateful rhetoric and ideology. It goes well beyond some of the odious and vile postings that we've seen on social media. It actually goes to engaging in activities, into training in weapons, the gathering of weapons, the the support for activities of escalating violence that represent a very serious threat to public safety in Canada and amongst all of our partners. And so some of the organizations that we missed are engaged in terrorist activity abroad, some of them right here at home. I will tell you, Carol, that in all the evidence that I examine on a very regular basis with the national security intelligence agencies and the RCMP, makes it very clear that the activities of these ideologically motivated, violent extremist groups represents perhaps the greatest threat to domestic security in Canada.

CO: OK, so in addition to putting them on this list, are there arrests imminent if you have examples of activity. I know, again, you can't tell as much of what's going on, but if there are actual cells who are plotting something or, you know, something, will we see arrests very soon then?

BB: What I can tell you is that there is, I think, more than sufficient evidence to support reasonable probable grounds that these organizations, in fact, are terrorist entities, and that's why we've added to the list. That is not the process of laying the charge, there's other evidence and other thresholds that need to be met. But that work is ongoing. And I would acknowledge to you a lot of the more recent acts of violence and disturbing activities have taken place in the United States. But it is also reflected by the activities of these groups in Canada and does represent a threat to Canadian public safety and Canadian interests around the world.

CO: OK but, in Canada. As far as terrorist attacks, the ones we have seen have been lone wolf attacks, haven't they? I mean, we saw the Quebec mosque attack. RCMP were attacked, Parliament Hill, the in cell attack in northern Toronto. No one in those cases was charged with terrorism. So why target groups for terrorism and not people?

BB: Carol, the listing of a group as a terrorist entity actually has fairly significant legal consequences. And by the way, let me acknowledge to you that the attack at the Quebec mosque and more recently at the mosque in Toronto are all ideologically motivated, extremist violent events and therefore are deeply concerning. Many of these organizations are promoting those selfsame hatreds and intolerances that give rise to those types of events. But the listing with an organization as a terrorist entity does a number of very important things. It places significant restrictions on their finances and their ability to fundraise in Canada. It provides us with some additional tools limiting their social media activities. And I think quite importantly, it can also create additional criminal offences, which will require other evidence, but can create criminal offences for those who provide support to those entities for the collection of weapons, for their travel, for other financial supports. And so it is another important tool available to us to address the threat that these organizations represent and where there is evidence of criminality. Those are other processes which are quite prepared to proceed with when the evidence is available.

CO: Mr. Blair, I appreciate you sharing time for us. Thank you.

BB: Thank you very much, Carol.

CH: Bill Blair is Canada's public safety minister. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music: Music box instrumental]

Rochester Police Family

Guest: Elba Pope and Lorenzo Napolitano

CH: It would be disturbing for any parent to watch their child being detained by police, but for the mother of a nine year old girl in Rochester, New York, the experience was uniquely horrifying. The incident happened on Friday. Body camera footage released over the weekend shows officers handcuffing and pepper spraying the young girl while she sits in the back of a police vehicle. At one point, officers accuse her of, "acting like a child", to which she responds, "I am a child". The mayor of Rochester has suspended one of the officers involved. Two others are on administrative leave. And now Elba Pope has filed a notice of claim against the city and its police force over their treatment of her daughter. We reached Miss Pope and her lawyer, Lorenzo Napolitano, in Rochester.

CO: Elba, I'd like to start by asking you how your daughter is doing.

ELBA POPE: She's doing OK. She's coping the best way that she can in this situation. You know, any kid being put in that predicament, you know, shouldn't be and it's definitely, definitely wasn't OK. The reaction she got from RPD.

CO: I want to ask you a bit about what happened. So why did first of all, why did you phone the police on Friday?

EP: I phoned the police on Friday due to my vehicle, I was calling to make a report on my car. In the midst of me trying to make a report on my car. My daughter ended up running out the house with her book bag. So, you know, I'm like, oh, my God. And I caught him out of the car like, sir, listen, we need to contact mental health because it looks like my daughter is going to have a mental health breakdown. And he's like, oh, he told me, no, at first he's like, oh, I'm not gonna do that. I'm like, Sir, you see, you know, she's screaming, what’s she screaming? And she's about to run away or she's trying to follow her father. She's trying to follow to get to her father. Yeah, you need to call mental health because she's going to have a breakdown.

CO: How did the police respond to your request then?

EP: He didn't, he ignored me. When I asked him again, he ignored me and he just proceeded to chase after my daughter. So I proceeded to chase after them. I'm like, you know, I'm going to follow my daughter wherever she goes. It's cold outside. And if she's running away, I'm running away with her. He made it around the corner before I can, I'm pregnant. So it was like I was, like trying to keep up with them. But when I turned the corner, he already had her arm already, like, scrunched up. At this point, I was still lost as to why she was upset or like why she was crying. But it was over, you know, it was over a miscommunication of what she thought something happened when in reality nothing had happened. So when she said it, I'm like, I was going on like, I'm lost.

CO: And did you see the police handcuff your daughter?

EP: No, I was not there. When they handcuffed her, he threatened me. He told me to leave. He said if I wouldn't leave, I was going to jail.

CO: And so then when did you actually learn what happened to your daughter after you left?

EP: So I wasn't even notified that day at all. I had to find out the next day through social media that that had happened. And I'm like, wait, wait, what, what? Nine year old? And I'm like, that's on the corner of my street. Is that my nine year old? And sure enough, they tackled her, handcuffed her, threw her in the car, pepper sprayed her and closed both doors.

CO: I want to bring your lawyer in, Lorenzo Napolitano. Mr. Napolitano, the family has filed a claim. What has happened here? What are you filing the claim about?

LORENZO NAPOLITANO: Well, we filed a claim about this whole incident for violation of her constitutional rights, excessive use of force and for negligence in the police actions in handling the situation. The claim is just simply the first step in this process to preserve my client's rights under the law. There's a really short, strict time frame to put any city or municipality on notice. And so we've done that.

CO: And what have the authorities said in response? What have you heard as far as what justification they gave for treating this girl this way?

LN: So far, we haven't gotten an official response. I know the police union has indicated that the police followed proper procedure, but if procedure results in a nine year old being tackled, handcuffed and pepper sprayed, then procedure is ridiculous. I will give credit to our mayor, Mayor Lovely Warren. She has reached out to my client and she has condemned the police actions. We hope those words now translate into action.

CO: Elba, What did Mayor Warren say to you in that conversation?

EP: She told me that she deeply apologized about what was going on. She said she had her own. She has her own 10 year old and she couldn't imagine, you know, being put in that predicament her ten year old would be pepper sprayed. She, you know, sympathise with with me and just gave me resources to help try to get through the situation.

CO: In the video. your daughter is clearly very distressed. She's struggling. She's pushed into the snow. She's yelling for her father. The police say there were indications that she may be dangerous and violent, but what do you say to that?

EP: She wasn't dangerous and violent. Can you imagine your nine year old being surrounded by six to ten grown men pulling, grabbing? Can you imagine the, you know, the fear that's in a child? She doesn't know what's happened and she doesn't see her dad, now she doesn't see her mom. And now there's these big guys surrounding her and she was lost. You know, she's a baby. You cannot fault a child for being scared of these grown men tackling her.

CO: And can I just ask your lawyer, what does, the scale of the police response to this, a number of officers involved, what does that say to you?

LN: My mind is blown. It says to me, that they treated a nine year old who was undergoing mental distress the same way they would treat an armed, dangerous criminal, and that's not how the situation should have been handled at all.

CO: This all happens in the wake of what happened in your city, in Rochester, to Daniel Prude, a black man who suffocated to death last year after police put him in a hood. People are looking at what's happened to your daughter, Elba, as another example of racism in the Rochester police. Do you believe that this was an act of racism?

EP: Yes, I do think that it was an act of racism. Had she'd been Caucasian, I'm not going to lie. It would have been handled totally different. I don't believe the child would have been handcuffed. And if he was or she was handcuffed, definitely would have never been pepper sprayed had she been a little white girl having a meltdown. So I hope to see a change in the police force, especially responding to children. This isn't the first child who was put in handcuffs with the Rochester Police Department. There's no reason why an eight, nine, 10 year old should be cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car.

CO: And pepper sprayed.

EP: And pepper sprayed.

CO: Elba Pope and Lorenzo Napolitano, I appreciate speaking with both of you. Thank you.

EP: You're welcome. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

LN: Take care. Bye bye.

CH: Elba Pope is the mother of a nine year old girl who was pepper sprayed by police last week. Lorenzo Napolitano was the family's lawyer. We reached him in Rochester.

[Music: Mystery Music]

Student finds professor’s Obit

Guest: Aaron Ansuini

CH: Aaron Ansuini is learning a lot this semester more than the Concordia University student expected to learn from his art history course. The lectures are online, but Mr. Ansuini wasn't satisfied with just sitting back and watching. He wanted some real life engagement and that Mr. Ansuini told CBC Montreal's Sean Henry was where his education really got a second wind.

AARON ANSUINI: Well into maybe the second or third lecture, I had some questions for my professor regarding some of the points he made, and when I went to Google his email address, I actually ended up pulling up his obituary. So, yeah, that was a little jarring.

SEAN HENRY: And what went through your mind when you found this out?

AA: Well, first I thought that surely I'd missed something on the website. So I went back to the course website. I went to the syllabus and I just, I couldn't find anything about it. So I thought maybe there was a mistake. Maybe there were two teachers who had the same name. But no, it really was him. So it was just a little, it was a little shocking. And then it was also a little sad once I returned to lecture because, I mean, he had passed two years prior. So it was just, it was pretty eerie.

SH: How does that affect your concentration, knowing now that the professor or the person who's giving you a lecture has passed away?

AA: It's definitely really distracting. I'm not sure if it's just me. I'm not sure if it's because I'm studying to be a teacher. But I find myself thinking a little existentially at times when I'm revisiting the lectures. So, yeah, I find it pretty distracting.

CH: That was Concordia student Aaron Ansuini speaking with the CBC's Sean Henry this morning. A Concordia University spokesperson told the Toronto Star, "We, of course, regret that this student felt they had not been clearly informed and have updated Dr. Gagnon's biography in the course information provided to registered students".

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Eddie Izzard

Guest: Eddie Izzard

CH: The British comedian Eddie Izzard is trying to make humanity great again, and to do that, Miss Izzard, who uses she/her pronouns, set herself a challenge. And if you're already feeling like you haven't quite made the most of your pandemic confinement, this is definitely going to make you feel worse. The challenge was to run 32 marathons in 31 days and to do 31 comedy gigs after each of those runs, all to raise money for charity, which she did, but not without sustaining some pretty gnarly toenail damage in the process. And while she's recovering, she's already turned her mind to her next run. We reached Eddie Izzard in London, UK.

CO: Eddie, how are you feeling now? Have you recovered?

EDDIE IZZARD: My head feels good, body feels exhausted and legs are recovering. I did go for a walk and I did throw on a pair of heels, which was maybe... they were knee boots, so maybe I was foolish to do it.

CO: Oh, lovely. Now, 32 marathons in 31 days would imply that you did two marathons in one day, right?

EI: Yes. The last day I ran double marathon just to up the ante.

CO: Good heavens. And so now, in what virtual country did you lose your toenail?

EI: Oh, I don't know. Well, it started going at the beginning. If people don't know my run was called, Makes America Great again. I came up with the slogan, I can't remember how I came up with the slogan. But anyway, someone else used to have a slogan a bit similar to that. [chuckles]It was in a country near you, I think, in Canada. And so I ran for this, and I ran for charities that work in the UK and around the world and a marathon a day. And we celebrated a different country each day, even though it was virtual. These were virtual marathons on a treadmill. So I didn't actually go anywhere. But when we finished up with New York City and America on the last day and the one before was for Aden in Yemen, where I was born in the port city of Aden, which is a British colony, which we used to do in the old days. People might remember.

CO: But you did lose a toenail in the course of all this?

EI: I did [inaudible]. Forget all the rest of it. [laughter] Yeah. The toenail, it started going let's see about five marathons in, somewhere around Malta, somewhere around the Republic of Cyprus. That's where the toenail started lifting up and saying it's going to go. It came off about 20 marathons later, somewhere around about Osaka, Japan.

CO: All right. Getting past your toenail. You do these marathons, this is not your first rodeo on this. And what pushes you to do these extremes? What is it that I mean, first of all, how do you do it and why do you do it?

EI: Well, if you're going to raise money, you've got to do something kind of audacious for the people to go oh, wow. That's go to eddieizzard.com and hit the donate button. And I did a stand up comedy gig at the end of each marathon. But, this is the 21st century, the coming of age of humanity. I think we should be fighting for a fair chance in life for everyone. Everyone should have the right to have a fair chance in life, not just in our own countries. And we must be patriotic about our countries, but nationalism, the rise of nationalism. My country is better than your country, which, if you think about it, is just the schoolyard. My dad's bigger than your dad. We tried it in the 1930s. It doesn't work. It ends in a very bad place. So be proud of our countries, but reach out, make even stronger connections than before. And I was born and as I say, in Yemen, an Arabic country, and I want to reach out. I played 45 countries now doing stand up. I'm performing in four languages. So I'm making connections and trying to raise money. And I came out as trans way back in 1985, 35 years ago, and it was very toxic at that time. Now it's in a better place. So I'm just trying to present a positive image for kids growing up.

CO: Now, in addition to the many hats you wear, and many of them are very attractive, but you do have an interest in politics. We spoke to you in 2013. You were planning a very different kind of race. You were going to run for mayor of London in 2020. So what happened there?

EI: Yeah, that was mayor of London or a member of parliament, mayor or a member of parliament. Sadiq Khan from the Labour Party, my party, got in in 2016 and he was going to run again in 2020. But the election has been moved to 2021. He's way ahead in the polls. It's great what he's doing with all power to him. And even if I wanted it, there's no mechanism to come in and say, hey, you're doing great, but can I come and have a go? You know, you don't do that even in your own party. Muslim heritage and that's great. And he's mayor of London. So onwards and upwards for him. I really need to be and want to be inside the machine. And being mayor is a great ambassador for London, but you're not in parliament. And so I really want to be in parliament. So it was always either one or the other. And so a member of parliament is what I was looking for in the last election. I was trying to get a seat for whatever reason, I didn't get one. I'm now open for byelection. If it comes up, that's a good fit for me, or if not, I'll go in the next election.

CO: But as you know, politics can be a very cynical place and hardly seems like a good fit for someone whose motto is make humanity great again. Do you think that politics is really for you?

EI: Well, yes, because if we say, look, make humanity great again, that's not good politics. Better stay out of that because it's really all about something else. Then what is politics? It moderates. I'm a radical but a moderate. So radical moderates can't go in. And what's the point? You know, we're just leaving it to Trump and extremists, right wingers who are using lies as a tool of politics where you just lie your head off and then people say, those lies are fantastic. I'll vote for you. Those lies. We can't leave it to the extremists. We have to, moderate people with a drive have a duty to go and get involved and be activists. If they're not going to be part of it, at least be activists or at least get out their vote and let your feelings be known, because otherwise we will be trampled by the violence and the threat of violence from the extreme right.

CO: The last time we spoke, you were quite gender fluid. How have you decided on female now? Does that feel right?

EI: You know, I'm still gender fluid. I was based in boy mode. I have boy and girl mode, I see it as a superhero thing being trans. And I was based in boy mode for the first 50 years of my life. And I'm going to be based in girl mode the second 50 years of my life. And I had a pronoun storm out in the social media at about November of last year. And what that was, was I was on a program. Now, I've been out since 1985, so it's 35 years. Everyone knows this. And then I was asked in the program , you know, I was there in girl mode and they said, what pronouns do you like? And I said, oh, if you're asking, well, she and her would be nice. So I said that they were very nice. They adopted that and they did the program. It went out about four months later in November because it was shot in the middle of last year and a lot of people picked up on it, which was wonderful. A lot of supportive people and in America and around the world because I'm known there. And then some people hated it and they were very negative. And so there's this kind of storm. But everyone has changed pronouns for me. I'm now she, I've been promoted to she and it is a great honour [chuckles] and I will fight for women's rights. I will encourage girls and young women to go for their dreams. Everything is open, therefore, and head of a country, ahead of party, head of a business, whatever you want to do. Girls and young women go for it. And that's my job to do as part of being a trans woman. But I have to be based as a trans woman from now on and everyone just needs to relax on this thing. When LGBT hits boring, once we've got the boring, then we've made it because that's what it should be. Sex and sexuality shouldn't be the thing. It's what do you do for life? What do you do in life? What do you do? What do you add to the human condition? You know.

CO: I love the idea that you've been promoted to female.

EI: Well, I really feel it's an honour. It's an honour.

CO: Eddie, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

EI: Not at all. Good to talk to you.

CO: Bye

CH: British comedian and aspiring politician Eddie Izzard. She was in London, UK. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: Electronic music]

Part 2: Arab Spring Revisited

Arab Spring Revisited

Guest: Maryam al-Khawaja

CH: It's been 10 years since the Arab Spring. That's 10 years that Maryam al-Khawaja has been without her father. Abdulhadi al-Khawaja is a longtime human rights activist in Bahrain. In 2011, during the pro-democracy protests in the Gulf state, police took him from his home, beat him and jailed him. He is still behind bars. We spoke with Maryam al-Khawaja in June 2011 on the day her father was sentenced to life in prison for what authorities called plotting to overthrow the regime. Here's part of her interview with Carol.

CO: Ms. al-Khawaja, some of your family members were in the courtroom when the sentence was read out. How did your father look?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: My sister said that he looked strong, like he was in high spirits. His face is still swollen due to the fractures in his face. They met him two days ago as well, and they said that he still had difficulty eating. So healthwise he's not doing that great, but his spirits are still high.

CO: We spoke with your sister Zainab after he was arrested. She described this horrible scene in your family home where in the dead of night, he was dragged down the stairs, beaten, taken away, unconscious. How do you think he has survived up to now through this ordeal?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: He did tell the family about all the types of torture that he had been subjected to and arranged everything from physical to psychological torture, and even at one point an attempt at [inaudible] him. And the only way he could defend himself was through banging his head against the floor until he passed out. He has been through a lot, but he says what keeps him going and what keeps him strong is his belief in this struggle for human rights and democracy. And that he knows it doesn't come without a price.

CH: Maryam al-Khawaja speaking with Carol in 2011 about her father, Abdulhadi al-Khawaja is also a human rights activist now living in exile in Denmark. That's where we reached her.

CO: Maryam, we just heard you in 2011 saying that your father knows human rights and democracy come at a price, what prices he paid in these last 10 years?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: Well, the ultimate price, which is his freedom, one of the things that is very difficult to convey when talking about the situation of my father and thousands of others who are prisoners of conscience in the region and around the world, is what that price actually carries. It's not just the price of sitting in a cell, you know, locked away from the rest of the world, it's the price of not having the opportunity to say goodbye to family members who pass away. It's the loss of not having the ability to see your grandchildren being born or take their first steps, in some cases, their children.

CO: I know you haven't been able to see him in person for years, but you did get a chance to see him on a video call last April. What was that like to see his face?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: It was very difficult. It was the first call since then. We've had some other video calls as well. But in that first call, I have to say it was a mixture of many different feelings. I think initially you go numb because you don't really know what to do with how overwhelmed you feel. He did not look like the person or the image that I had of him in my head, which is the image of what he looked like when I was a kid, when I was growing up to see him so skinny to see him with his face changed because of the chronic pain that he has from where they broke his jaw. It hit me very, very hard. The call was very brief. And after the call, I remember I completely fell apart for a while. So it was overwhelming, but it was also good. It was good to see him smiling and laughing and joking with us like he has our entire lives.

CO: How old were you when the last time you actually saw him in person?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: The last time I saw him in person was in 2014 when we were both prisoners. So I was twenty six, I think. Twenty five.

CO: So you had encounters with him when you were incarcerated and so did that help at all for him and for you that you had that contact?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: I think definitely I hadn't seen him since 2011 at that point, and it was the first time I'd see him since he was imprisoned. And so that that definitely made a difference. The only way that they allowed me to go see him when I was in prison was because I went on a hunger strike. It wasn't that they allowed it to happen on its own, but I remember, you know, it was such a, in a way a beautiful irony of the beauty of it was the fact that I could see him and see my uncle, who was also incarcerated at the time. But the irony part of it being that we were all incarcerated and I had to go back to prison after that.

CO: Your father, what he was arrested for and he's serving a life sentence in Bahrain for his peaceful and political human rights activities. People around the world have called for him to be released. What does he say to you now about the struggle for democracy in Bahrain?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: He still says the same things. I mean, my father's tone about the importance of the work that we all do for human rights and for the world generally hasn't shifted or changed. He still talks to us about the conditions inside prison and how terrible they've been about how people are being treated and the importance of the work that we do and not giving up. And so I think that the same message that he's told me, pretty much throughout my entire activism career, which is, that to be a human rights defender is to do it because you believe it's the right thing, whether or not it brings results.

CO: You told us 10 years ago that your father would actually bang his head on the floor in order to pass out so he could escape from the pain of what they were doing to him physically and psychologically. Is he still being tortured?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: He's not being tortured in the same way that he was. The physical torture that I described in that phone call happened mostly in 2011. There was forced feeding that happened in 2012 when he went on a 110 day hunger strike, which, according to the special rapporteur on torture, does constitute an act of torture. But since then, they found new ways to try and break his morale. For example, at one point they allowed him to plant things outside his prison cell. And then once he had tended to those plants and they had grown, they came in and destroyed them. And then at another point, they took away all of his books and his papers and pens. He told us that at that point, in some ways, it felt worse than the torture because it was an intellectual torture. It was stripping him of his lifeline to the rest of the world and to his own humanity, basically.

CO: When we spoke with you in 2011, your father was sentenced. We spoke to your sister Zainab as well, during that period. You're now both living in Denmark. Is it impossible for you to live in Bahrain?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: I wouldn't say impossible if we were both willing to be in a prison cell. My sister Zainab left Bahrain in 2016 after she was released from prison, I believe, for the 12th time. And that last imprisonment was with her baby son at the time. And they basically told her, you either leave the country or we imprison you and deny you access to your children. And so she was not left with much of a choice, and which is why she joined me in Denmark, we're both sentenced to time in prison. We both have several cases pending against us in the country, and so going back means that there is a possibility that we end up in the same situation as my father with potentially just as long a sentence.

CO: And this political situation in Bahrain now being part of the Arab Spring, so many people took to the streets to try and make their voices heard. So many of them were arrested, they were killed, they were tortured. They've disappeared. Has there been any progress in the past decade?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: I would say that, unfortunately, it's gotten worse. While we had some, albeit very limited space to operate a civil society as human rights defenders, none of that exists anymore. And so we're looking at a situation where the regime has control on every aspect of life, on every detail of life.

CO: Your mother and your sister are still in Bahrain.

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: I have one mother and sister in Bahrain and two sisters outside the same as myself.

CO: And so, now that your family is split up. Your father is in prison. There's a threat of others going to jail. When you look back at those events, we look at all that from you personally. Do you have any regrets?

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: I generally don't believe in the idea of regrets. I think everything is something that we can learn from. It's always a lesson. But I think the best way to answer that question is to tell you what my father told us in 2011, the first visit that my family handed him after he had been severely tortured and they were very upset about the state of things in the country. My father asked them, why do you look so sad? And they said, well, you know, people are getting picked up left and right and disappearing and torture is widespread and so on. And he said, but that's not the attitude we need to have now. What happened in 2011 when people took to the streets en masse and not just Bahrain, but across the region? That is something to be celebrated every single day because that in and of itself was an achievement. What comes beyond that is secondary to it. And so I believe in that. I believe that despite the price we've had to pay and continue to pay, I don't regret that we had an opportunity to breathe freedom, even if it was a short period of breathing freedom. And I think that it's not an anomaly. It's something that exists in a timeline of events and we will see change come one way or another.

CO: Maryam, I admire your courage and that of all your family members, and I really appreciate speaking with you again. Thank you.

MARYAM AL-KHAWAJA: Likewise. Thank you so much.

CH: That was Maryam al-Khawaja, whose father, Abdulhadi al-Khawaja, remains in prison in Bahrain almost 10 years after his arrest during the Arab Spring. She's a human rights activist as well. Now living in Denmark. At the end of 2011, As It Happens, aired a special program on the Arab Spring highlighting the voices of protesters and activists across the Arab world. It included the story of the al-Khawaja family. Here's part of that documentary focussinging on Bahrain.

JEFF DOUGLAS: People from Sudan to Yemen to Syria. We're finding the courage to criticise their governments and they needed that courage as they met resistance from those in power. In Bahrain, the crackdown on dissent was sometimes blunt tanks and guns aimed at demonstrators, but it was often carried out with extreme precision. The authorities took aim at activist leaders and at the doctors who were treating those wounded on the streets. Abdulhadi al-Khawaja is one of the country's most prominent critical voices. In April, he was arrested in front of his family. That prompted his daughter Zainab to go on a hunger strike. Zainab spoke to Carol about her family's ordeal.

ZAINAB AL-KHAWAJA: At about 2:00 a.m., they came. We knew they came because straight away they broke down the door of the building and we could hear it. And then we could hear them running up the stairs to our apartment and broke down the door of our apartment. Before they had arrived, my father had been telling us to calm down and that if they had come not to say anything and not to cry, not to make a scene, he said, I don't want any of you to get beaten or to get arrested. But when my father walked to the door to speak to them before he even opened his mouth to speak, they grabbed him from his throat, from his neck, and started pulling him outside to the stairs. They were kicking him and hitting him. And then between the flights of stairs, they threw him on the ground. They were wearing black uniforms and they were armed and all of them were wearing black ski masks so we could only see their eyes. I stood at the top of the stairs watching them as they beat my father and remembering what he had told us. But then I heard my father gasping for air and saying that he couldn't breathe. So I ran down the stairs and started asking them to please stop beating my father. I told them my father was willing to go voluntarily. So why did they need to beat him? They could just arrest him. And one of them started shouting that they should beat me up and arrest me as well. But instead, one of them grabbed my shirt and started pulling me up the stairs. As he pulled me up, my mother was trying to get between me and him and asking him to please let go of me. And he shoved her onto the stairs and she still has bruises. And before he took me upstairs, I saw my father lying on the stairs and he was not moving at all. And I saw them take my brothers in law and my husband down the stairs as well. They took us upstairs to the apartment and they shoved us into a room and they locked the door on us while they took the men. They took them to the lower apartment and forced them down on the ground, face down and kept beating them. And even though my father was unconscious and bleeding, they kept beating him and cursing him and telling him that they were going to kill him. One of my brothers in law was left behind. They did not arrest him. And he told us that he saw that my father was unconscious and that when they wanted to take his picture, two of them had to carry him up and take his picture. And then they threw him down on the ground again. By the time we got out of the room of the upstairs apartment, I walked down the stairs and I was horrified because I saw my father's blood on our staircase.

JD: That was Zainab al-Khawaja speaking to Carol on April 12th about the arrest of her father, Abdulhadi. Zainab kept up her hunger strike for ten days until she could no longer speak, and that is when international rights groups convinced her to end her protest. It was the same day that her father was supposed to appear in court. But as she explained to Carol, things did not go as planned.

CO: Zainab, what happened when your family arrived to attend your father's court appearance today?

ZAINAB AL-KHAWAJA: What happened was my father told us last night the specific place and time to go, and he told us what he needed, which was basically a suit to wear for court. Of course, I've just come out from my hunger strike and was too weak to go myself. But my sister and other family members did go. When they went to give the bag, they took it straight away. They didn't even take my father's full name. Later, they escorted my family members out from the military court and told them they were not allowed to be there. The human rights activist who was trying to attend the trial was held by the door and told that there was no trial and that in fact, they had no one under my father's name. So. Until now, we don't really know what happened today.

CO: You said your father called last night. Can you describe how he sounded to you?

ZAINAB AL-KHAWAJA: He sounded very, very weak. He could barely speak. I asked him straight away, how are you? How are you? And all he said was, the oppression is great. And he wouldn't say any more coming from my father. This is really worrying. He's not the kind of man who would say something like that before when he was beaten or when he was arrested. He would always sound like he's smiling and say he was OK. And not to worry, but the way he was speaking and the words that he was saying made us, in fact, sure that he was going through torture, severe torture.

CO: Well, Zainab, please take care of yourself. And thank you for speaking with us.

ZAINAB AL-KHAWAJA: Thank you so much. Take care.

CO: Thank you. And good night.

ZAINAB AL-KHAWAJA: Good night, bye, bye.

JD: That was Zainab al-Khawaja speaking about the detention of her father, the Bahraini activist Abdulhadi al-Khawaja, back in April. In June, Mr. al-Khawaja and several other activists were sentenced to life in prison. Not long after Mr. Al Khawaja was detained, the authorities arrested medical staff who had treated wounded protesters at Salmaniya Hospital in Manama. Forty seven doctors, nurses and paramedics were charged with acting against the state. They were witnesses to the harm done to peaceful demonstrators and they had spoken out about it. The court later handed 20 of them jail sentences from five to 20 years, the day of the sentencing, As It Happens, spoke via Skype with one of the doctors who was at home on bail. We withheld her name to protect her family.

CO: What will happen to you now?

DOCTOR: We are just waiting now for them to come and assess my mother's going insane, she has not stopped crying. And we are worried about our kids. And it's a complete breakdown for the families, for them and for us. So we are in very bad shape.

CO: I know this all flows, of course, from the efforts of you and the other doctors and medics to help those who were wounded, protesters who are wounded during those demonstrations. The evidence against you principally, I understand, was a confession that you are said to have signed. Can you tell us how that confession came about?

DOCTOR: Yeah, the main evidence in this case was our confessions which were taken by force. We were kidnapped actually. We did not know where we were. We were blindfolded, handcuffed all the time. We were declined sleep. We were standing for a long time. They were beating us. They electrocuted us. We were, you know, sexually molested. They threatened us to pray for us or kill us. They threatened our families. They said they were going to bring our family and kill them or rape them. Then at the end of the day, we did not stand all the emotional and physical stress. We had to, whatever sentences were written, a few papers, we just signed them. We did not see what was written on those papers.

CO: What will you turn to? How will you cope with what's coming for you next?

DOCTOR: Oh, my God. Aha. You know, I have a very small kid, and this is the first time I was thinking that I will ever leave my family for a very long time. I'm not sure who's going to take care of my kids. I'm not sure how he will grow up without his mother, you know, after such a long period, if I came out, he would not recognise I am his mother. So we are devastated. But deep inside, we know that we are innocent and we are praying for God. We are praying for the country and for the people, for all behind to stay safe.

CO: How will your family cope, do you think, with what's to come in these years that you're facing?

DOCTOR: I'm not really quite sure. My brothers and sisters, they are not believing what's happening. What I know is that our friends and neighbours, they will try to support them emotionally and stand by them. And my family, the most important thing is my family knows that I'm innocent and they are proud of me, of what I did. And I'm keeping a message. So if I come out a very long time, that my small kid one day will hear this message and he would know that his mother is innocent and what will happen is all her crime is just cheating. I'm just a [inaudible].

CO: Doctor, I admire your courage very much. And I do hope that we talk again very soon.

DOCTOR: Thank you, Carol. Goodbye.

JD: That was one of the Bahraini doctors sentenced to jail after treating injured protesters during the state crackdown on demonstrations in Bahrain. She spoke to Carol in September.

CH: That was from September 2011, the year of the Arab Spring, and that was part of a documentary that aired on As It Happens at the end of that momentous year. Later this month, we'll bring you more of that special program with people who were on the ground in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Syria 10 years ago fighting for greater freedom. And we'll hear how one Egyptian activist sees those uprisings now a decade on.

[Music: Soft guitar instrumental]

Unborn music artist

CH: All parents think that their kid is the best, and that usually starts the second the baby is born occasionally to the annoyance of everyone around them. But Luca Yupanqui's parents are different. They like to be ahead of the curve or in this case, inside of it. Today, the record label Sacred Bones announced that in April, the toddler's debut album, Sounds of the Unborn, will be released. It is aptly named because it was recorded while Luca was still in the womb. For that to make even a semblance of sense, you need to know that Luca's mother is Elizabeth Hart, bassist for the psychedelic rock band Psychic Ills. While Ms. Hart was pregnant, she attached electrodes to her abdomen, then used something called biosonic MIDI technology to transcribe the vibrations in a synthesiser. The end result sounds like this. It's our sound of the day.

[Sound clip]

CH: The sound of Luca Yupanqui in utero, part of the upcoming album Sounds of the Unborn. It's our Sound of the Day.

[Music: piano instrumental]

Shannon Phillips appeal

Guest: Miranda Bell Tilcock

CH: Four years ago, Shannon Phillips was Alberta's environment minister and in April of 2017, she attended a brunch with constituents at a cafe to talk about bison in Banff National Park, normal Cabinet minister stuff. Until Ms. Phillips saw photos of that brunch that had been taken by a stranger and posted to social media, along with some false claims about her. Four Lethbridge police officers later admitted to surveilling her and posting the photos without authorisation. Seems they didn't appreciate her ideas about conservation policy. Two were demoted, but now Shannon Phillips has won the right to appeal those demotions. She wants the officers dismissed here as Shannon Phillips telling the CBC about it today.

SHANNPN PHILLIPS: You know, the demotion has led to a slightly lower public sector pension upon retirement entitlement for these two officers. So I fail to see how that is an appropriate sanction in this instance. I think ultimately the public I said when all of this came to light, in July that these two officers ought to have been relieved of their duties. And I agree with that assessment. I do not believe that the LPF can maintain public trust and therefore public safety with these two fellas still patrolling the street.

DAVID GRAY: And that gets to the underlying issue. I mean, let's be blunt. You're a prominent politician with enough privilege and experience to know how to make your voice heard. Others, perhaps, who have been unfairly targeted by police in your area may not enjoy this luxury. Some will say, well, she's just being spiteful. Others would say, no, this is the bigger issue and this is what you're trying to solve. How do you see it? What's motivating you to see this through?

SP: There is absolutely no personal benefit to me to have any of this dragged through years of various legal wranglings. It's a tremendous personal cost to me. I'm already thousands of dollars out of pocket personally for this. This is about doing the right thing. Yes, it is about using this example in order to make sure that we do not have bad police officers creating a permission structure for further bad behaviour. There's no question about that, that in order to preserve public trust and public safety, we can't have bad cops out there on the streets. There's just no question about that. And no one really disputes that. What police association's not, you know, the UCP, the NDP or anybody else. Right. It's not about that sort of usual political divide. It's about let's get the right thing done here. Let's restore public trust and public safety. Let's make sure our resources are being used appropriately. And, you know, ultimately, this is fundamentally anti-democratic behaviour and it cannot be tolerated.

CH: Shannon Phillips, MLA for Lethbridge West, speaking with David Gray on the Calgary Eyeopener. In a statement, the Lethbridge Police Service says it respects the decision and Ms. Phillips' right to appeal and will not be issuing further comment.

[Music: meditative sounds]

Part 3: Republican Reckoning

Republican Reckoning

Guest: Barbara Comstock

CH: U.S. Republican lawmakers have a choice will they defend voices that loudly endorse conspiracy theories, or will they denounce them at the risk of alienating Donald Trump's powerful voter base? No one embodies that division more than U.S. House Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene. Ms. Greene Has endorsed the most vile and outlandish conspiracy theories out there, including QAnon and the idea that the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, was somehow a staged event. Tomorrow, the House will vote on whether to strip Mrs. Greene of her committee assignments. Barbara Comstock is a former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. We reached her in McLean, Virginia.

CO: Ms. Comstock, what is really at stake tomorrow for Republicans and the vote on whether to strip Marjorie Taylor Greene of her committee assignments?

BARBARA COMSTOCK: Well, the vote that the Democrats are going to put on the floor will strip her of her committee post. I think that is already determined. Now, what I think as a Republican who was formerly in Congress is that Republicans themselves should strip her of those committee posts. I don't think it's a difficult issue. I don't think it sets many precedents because it's pretty unusual to have somebody who's promoting these types of dangerous conspiracy theories to a degree such as she has and been unrepentant about her remarks. I think it's unfortunate for Republicans not to have done it themselves.

CO: And why aren't they? What would be the reason why Republicans wouldn't also take this on?

BC: They're kind of using process arguments and saying most of these remarks were before she was in Congress and all, I don't buy that. I would vote against her having her committees and taken from her. And while a district can elect anybody they want, if they meet the basic qualifications, that doesn't mean that Congress can't set rules on whether they want to play with that individual. So the other 434 people don't have to accept you as a member if they don't want.

CO: Well, we'll just do a little round up. When you talk about the things that she has said that she has endorsed through tweeting or retweeting violence against congresspeople, she supports. QAnon the conspiracy theory that Donald Trump is somehow sent to help them defeat some cabal of Satan worshipping paedophile liberals who eat babies, that the Sandy Hook shootings were staged, that the Pentagon was not hit on September 11th attack, some others which are deeply racist, anti-Semitic and Islamophobic. So how is it that somebody who represents all those things can even be elected in your country?

BC: Well, she is from a very deep, you know, red Republican district. And unfortunately, that district did not choose to support her Republican opponent in the primary, who I supported, who he actually was a brain surgeon, very conservative guy, but sane. So it was conservative versus insane and unfortunately, sort of, crazy won. It's not reflective, I think, either of the party or of our country. But unfortunately, because of Donald Trump and because some of these Freedom Caucus members who are sort of Donald Trump cultists, this kind of personality was promoted. So, you know, Mark Meadows, who was the president's chief of staff, Jim Jordan, who is one of the president's key defenders, and Matt Gates, these people you see on TV all the time defending the president, they're the ones who promoted her and got in and said she was great and now they are going to harm the entire Republican caucus with her. The one thing that the Freedom Caucus is good at, it's good at shrinking the Republican Party. They are ineffective advocates. You know, they were Donald Trump's defenders and he got impeached twice. They are ineffective at getting the president re-elected.

CO: But it seems that so many Republicans are either going to endorse or are not going to stand up against her. So there must be a lot of people who believe that supporting Marjorie Taylor Greene is actually a route to re-election.

BC: Well, it's not. So they'll find that out. The faces for the party for the future are those people like Liz Cheney, like the people who voted for impeachment, the Cuban and Latino women that we got elected this year, African-American men that we got elected. So we have a lot of new faces for the future of the party. Unfortunately, the sort of dead enders from the Trump team are going to hurt the party for a little while longer. But I think the party will make a turn and is starting to make a turn from this. And those who don't will be left behind.

CO: Do you think that they should go further and have her removed from the house altogether, do you endorse that?

BC: Well, I support kicking her out of our party like that. They just vote and say, hey, you can call yourself whatever you want, but you're not in the Republican caucus. We don't want you here. But I think keeping her out of the party and off committees is probably the most effective way to short circuit her tenure in Congress, because there's redistricting that goes on in the U.S. in the next two years. And they now will be doing the redistricting process in Georgia. And I would certainly hope they would find a way to get rid of her in some way or just find an effective candidate if our brain surgeon could run again. I think a lot of people now are calling him and saying, gee, I didn't realise how awful she was. I just thought she was for Trump. There's a lot of buyer's remorse even in her district now. So she won't pass any bills. She won't get anything done in Congress. And I think you will see her flame out pretty quickly.

CO: But if she does not, if she stays within the folds of the Republican Party, others like her, not maybe as extreme. But there are others, and including Donald Trump, still playing a large role. Would you still feel comfortable calling yourself a Republican?

BC: Well, I am. I tell people I am a Republican and I am Catholic and my party has problems. My church has problems. I'm so far staying with both in trying to improve it from within. And actually, last year I opposed Donald Trump for president. I did in '16, and also voted against him even when I was on the ticket with him. But I always try and spend my time concentrated on who are the positive faces and good characters that I can support. I just got off a fundraising Zoom call for Liz Cheney. I have another one tomorrow for another Republican who voted for impeachment. So I look to who I can support and who I think positively represents the party. And I think one man or one woman or 10 people with courage makes a majority. And that's how I look to build the party.

CO: Ms. Comstock, will leave it there and we'll be following. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

BC: Sure. Take care.

CO: Bye.

CH: Barbara Comstock is a former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. We reached her in McLean, Virginia. Meanwhile, an awful lot of Republicans are still refusing to condemn Marjorie Taylor Green for her extreme and often horrifying views. In fact, despite significant coverage of the things she said and tweeted, many are refusing to comment at all.

CH: That's easy enough when no one asks you to, but tougher when someone does. Which leads me to a quick quote, unquote from retired college football coach and newly elected Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville of Alabama yesterday. CNN politics producer Ted Barrett got hold of Senator Tuberville, who was presumably in Washington, D.C. Now, Washington did get four point two inches of snow yesterday, but it didn't affect the Internet or cable TV or smartphones, phones or the publication of newspapers. I mentioned all of the above because when Mr. Barrett asked Senator Tuberville about Representative Greene's offensive comments, the senator said, "I haven't looked at what all she's done. I'd have to hold back a statement on that. I've been travelling. This weather's been a little rough, didn't look at any news or whatever".

[Music: calm classical]

COVID outbreak at Milton jail

Guest: Charlotte DeSouza

CH: Charlotte DeSouza's son recently tested positive for covid-19, but she has no idea how he's doing. Matthew DeSouza is incarcerated at the Maple Hurst Correctional Complex in Milton, Ontario. The jail is currently dealing with a mass outbreak of coronavirus. It's been in lockdown since last month and it's over overcapacity. Yesterday, Ms. DeSousa received a call from another inmate at the facility, and this morning she told CBC Toronto what she learnt.

CHARLOTTE DESOUZA: They're very, very concerned that they have too many people in one cell. Apparently, they have three to four inmates. That are packed in each cell and their whole range has covid.

ISMAILA ALFA: And I could understand why that would be very, very concerning for you, of course, I mean, you're hearing this from someone who is in the same facility, the same institution as you, as your son. That must be tough to hear from somebody who is there with your son, but not from your son himself.

CHARLOTTE DESOUZA: Yes, it is, and what's frustrating is that. Nobody gets a hold of you from jail to tell you these things, like for a mother, any family member were worried because they like to know what's going on with their loved ones.

IA: Yeah. When was the last time you actually spoke with your son?

CHARLOTTE DESOUZA: I haven't heard from him in two weeks.

IA: Did you hear anything from your son in the times when you were able to speak with him about the population there, about how close they were with each other? What did he say to you directly when you spoke with him last?

CHARLOTTE DESOUZA: Before he got positive covid? He was saying to me he wanted to get a hold of the news or anybody because they haven't had showers and there's too many people. So they're overcrowded. And plus they're always on lockdown constantly. That's all I know about that.

IA: Now, of course, this you mentioned you heard directly from your son, but other descriptions of what's happening there, you had heard from another inmate. And we have calls into the solicitor general to see what the conditions are and to confirm some of these things and dig a little further to find out why, if and why these things are happening. But at the moment, knowing that your son has covid-19 right now and being unable to get in touch with them, what are, what would you like to say to him right now? What do you want to ask him right now?

CHARLOTTE DESOUZA: I just want them to know that I'm praying for him and hope that he's OK. I'm just scared because I don't know. With the unknown. I don't know what's going on. So, yeah,the hard part. I love him and I'm here for him.

CH: That was Charlotte D'Souza, whose son is being held at the Maple Hurst Correctional Complex northwest of Toronto, speaking with Ismaila Alfa in a statement to Metro Morning, the Ministry of the Solicitor General said in part, Any inmate that tests positive for covid-19 is placed under droplet precautions and isolated from the rest of the inmate population while they receive appropriate medical care. The ministry also says that while the jail is on lockdown, officials are, "making every effort to let inmates shower and have telephone access".

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Walking While Trans Law

Guest: T.S Candii

CH: On Tuesday, New York State repealed a law that a lot of people found discriminatory, the infamous policy commonly known as The Walking while trans ban was first introduced back in the 70s. The goal was to reduce prostitution by outlawing loitering, but instead, trans women of colour say they were specifically targeted and that the policy was abused. There were random and pervasive pat downs by police, demeaning requests and in some cases, incarcerations that led to death. T.S Candii says she's been a victim of the policy. We reached her in New York City.

CO: T.S, how did you feel when you learnt the so-called walking while trans law was going to be repealed?

T.S CANDII: I was happy but I didn't want to count my chickens before they hatched.

CO: Uh huh. And so just tell us about how it affects you. First of all, how did the law itself walking while trans laws, it's called. How did it affect you?

T.S CANDII: OK, well, a few years ago when I moved to NYC, a vice officer, used law 240.37 to profile of course and forced me to perform a sexual act, which was oral sex. Thankfully, I wasn't arrested. To this day, the trauma is still very real for me.

CO: Good heavens. Were you able to report that or could you report that?

T.S CANDII: Oh, I can report. And then I'm black and then I'm going to want to say I'm transgender. So, you know, you can't report crimes against an officer, they won't believe you.

CO: So this encounter with the police officer must have been very traumatic for you.

T.S CANDII: Yes, it was most definitely, traumatic, and like I said, it's a one sided thing and which is the one sided law and no one will believe you and as well as New York, they actually have a law in place, where it's called the rape shield. On the rape shield exemption, which is if anyone has been charged with prostitution on their record within the last three years, they wouldn't be protected under that particular law. So basically, if I was charged the prostitution yesterday and I got raped today and I couldn't basically have a case because I'm a prostitute,.

CO: So this is no way around this there? I mean, one way or another, you're stuck. And so this but this walking while trans law in particular has created so much pain for people then that people have actually died because of that, is that right?

T.S CANDII: Yes, most definitely. So like Layleen Polanco, she was a black female, transgender woman where she was actually arrested on this law. And they wanted her to go through the diversion court. And due to her missing her court date and diverse in court, they thought she had a warrant out for her arrest. And when she got the one out warrant, they finally caught up with her, arrested her, threw her into solitary confinement where she on a cash bail of five hundred dollars where she ended up dead.

CO: Her sister has spoken about that and said about the repealing of this law that ended up putting her sister in Rikers Island, that at least that she feels that she didn't die in vain. And so because things have changed and you as well have fronted the problems with this, how important was it for you to actually be amongst those who challenged this law?

T.S CANDII: It was, words couldn't even explain the way I've felt with the pain and the hurt inside and the grieving of a family. You love that. You know, no one should even be charged with, you know, prostitution for simply just walking down the street. So it was just so much that, to say that I'm happy is an understatement.

CO: Can you just give us a bit of the history of this? Because this law was introduced 45 years ago and it was called the loitering for the purpose of prostitution at the time. How did it come to be called or nicknamed Walking while Trans law?

T.S CANDII: When we introduced the law, you know, we received all the data, so we got all the data from the four different police precincts, and we started to see which proceeds, which area, you know, where the numbers was coming from. You know, even with police officers, we have police officers that are sworn in on the information that they identify transgender women by their Adam's apple. And it was merely more focussed on targeting only the black and brown transgender women. That's what all the numbers was, actually, and that mostly impacted people. So it was just and it was simply a stop and frisk. It was, oh, I was walking outside. Oh, I was walking from a club or I was waving, you know, hailing down a cab. So it was just like little things like that. And, you know, they say, oh, my dress is too short. And I was standing right here too long. And I was waving at a cab. And, you know, they thought that I was, you know, waving at a customer or, you know, and things of that nature. And so it was [inaudible] walking while trans.

CO: And you mentioned all the statistics, the data that you gathered in order to get rid of this law, 85 percent of the people arrested under the statute were black or Latino and overwhelmingly trans. And because they could stop people for a search just based on what they appeared to be. So why do you think it's taken 45 years to get rid of this law?

T.S CANDII: Yeah, because let's be honest, this law was created back in the 1970s, which was a white male Republican legislator, you know, today a Democrat legislator, and under the leadership of, black and brown women and men repealed a law that was created about white male Republicans. But, moments like this it's what our ancestors fought for.

CO: Well, T.S congratulations for getting this repealed and all the effort you and others had to put into it in order to get it to happen. Thanks so much for speaking with us.

T.S CANDII: Thank you.

CO: Bye bye.

T.S CANDII: Later.

CH: That was T.S Candii, we reached her in New York City, and you can find more on that story on our webpage at CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Fake groundhog day prediction

CH: And now the weather,

PERCY SALTZMAN: You have northwesterly winds, southerly winds, easterly southeastern winds like that, and that area of action is even greater than this and more violent. You have a very tightly wound up storm covering all of western Canada, as you see.

CH: Legendary CBC meteorologist Percy Saltzman with the weather forecast from 1967. Oh, does an outdated forecast not help you plan for the future? Well, now you know how New York City feels. Yesterday, the Staten Island Zoo held its Groundhog Day celebration featuring star attractions Staten Island Chuck, which this year, of course, was streamed over the Internet.

VOICE 1: OK, Chuck, it's time to wake up.

VOICE 2: Alright Chuck. OK I see Chuck, you wanna tell me what it is this year Chuck? I think I know what the answer is. We're going to have an early spring!. Thank you, Chuck. Good news, Chuck.

VOICE 1: So there you have it, folks. We're going to have an early spring brought to you by Staten Island, chuck and our sponsor Investors Bank, and I'd like to thank everyone for joining us.

CH: There you had it, the forecast of Staten Island. Chuck, the groundhog who did not see his shadow on the bare non snow covered ground. And that's the part that caught New Yorkers attention because yesterday on Groundhog Day, New York City was getting hit with its biggest snowstorm in five years. "How do you fake a groundhog prediction?", one angry viewer posted. It was a rhetorical question, obviously. Staten Island, Chuck's weather forecast had been pre-recorded days earlier. Practical decision, except that it makes Chuck's carefully considered forecast completely irrelevant. No one cares what groundhogs think when it's not Groundhog Day. It's why the majority of our professional meteorologists are not groundhogs. So far, the Staten Island Zoo has not commented on this debacle, but they don't have to say something because we didn't need a fake early spring prediction. We needed a reality, Chuck.

February 3, 2021 Episode Transcript

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