Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2018

The AIH Transcript for April 4, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Bean there — don't do that. As the United States and China exchange tariff threats, an Iowa farmer worries that soybean producers like him could wind up victims of President Trump's trade war.

JD: High pressure situation. Conservative senators say Canadians need answers about what legal weed means if they're heading to the border. So they visited the Attorney General in Washington to get some answers.

CO: Mountains still to climb. On the 50th anniversary of the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, his daughter Bernice returns to the city where he was killed and says there's still a long way to go to the Promised Land.

JD: G whiz. That phrase describes you if you can identify and write both kinds of lower-case Gs — because it turns out most guys and gals don't have a good grasp on one, which I guess is not good.

CO: Don't ship where they eat. Dozens of train cars full of human waste are stalled in the town of Parrish, Alabama. Residents are eager to get them moving, but they're not holding their breath. Well, they are, but… you know what I mean.

JD: Yeah! And...cup, then saucers. A Manitoba man was just sitting down for a little food and drink when the spacecraft arrived — and now, a new coin official commemorates that day in 1967 when his lunch was spoiled by aliens.

JD: As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that knows you can't have your cake and E.T. too.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: China tariffs, Poop Train, ‘G’ study

China tariffs

Guest: Grant Kimberly

JD: Well, it's looking more and more like Donald Trump might get that trade war — the one he said would be so easy to win. This morning, China announced plans to impose tariffs on 50 billion dollars' worth of US exports, including everything from soybeans to pork. That was in response to the U.S. President's threat to slap tariffs on hundreds of Chinese-made goods. Grant Kimberley is finding it hard to see an easy win in any of this. He’s a soybean farmer, and the President of the Iowa Soybean Association. We reached him in Des Moines.

CO: Mr. Kimberly, what would a Chinese tariff of 25 per cent on soybeans what would that mean for farmers like you?

GRANT KIMBERLY: Well actually, Purdue University recently did a study to analyze what that potential impact might be. And they looked at what the impact would be at a 30 per cent tariff. I think the proposal is actually 25 per cent. And they found that we would see exports of U.S. soybeans to China be reduced by about 70 per cent. And total exports of all U.S. soybeans would be down 40 per cent. And we would see a reduction in soybean production. And, of course, prices would drop as well. So it would be a pretty negative impact because China is our number one soybean market.

CO: Would it be enough to say soybean farmers go out of business?

GK: If this lasted long enough, yes there would probably be impacts because, financially, it would make it very difficult.

CO: How soon might start affecting American farmers given that the fall crop I guess that would be impacted by this?

GK: Well, we've already seen it impact the commodity futures market today, where we saw futures prices drop pretty dramatically for soybeans and all other kinds of commodities. So farmers are seeing that impact right now. And if you didn't already have some of your last year's harvest sold, you'd have lost a lot of money today as farmers. Some farmers would have some sold already but probably would still have more to sell later this year. So there are impacts there. There are implications on planting. We will be planting soybeans in the next month. So farmers are going to be looking really hard at the numbers what they think the potential revenue opportunity might be for next harvest. And then making decisions on what they want to plant. And maybe they might decide we might need to plant some other crops.

CO: All right but this is in retaliation. China is not doing this unilaterally. This is in reaction to tariffs that President Trump is proposing to put on Chinese products. So what are farmers your speaking with — people in your region — what are they saying about Mr. Trump's decision?

GK: You're right. That's exactly correct. We all along as a soybean industry have been telling the administration through our national organization that we did not want tariffs to be put in place in the first place. You know we knew that this retaliation would happen because soybeans are the number one agriculture export to China. It's a 14 billion dollar a year export market. So we told the administration don't do this. We understand there are legitimate concerns on trade, but find a different way to do this. And so we're still going to advocate to the administration to resolve this quickly and make sure this can be put behind us.

CO: There is a map that Bloomberg News has published it's the “Map of Soybean Voters” as they call it. And it shows this enormous swath of voters in that soybean growing area that have voted Republican. Do you think that Mr. Trump might look at that map before he makes a decision about tariffs to China?

GK: Well, I don't know about that map for sure. So keep in mind when it comes to rural voters those are not the same as agriculture voters. I think people voted for change and that's what happened. But I think certainly farmers are going to look at this you know not necessarily what's happening today but where do we end up at?

CO: I just think as a question it's not what farmers think of the voting, but what Mr. Trump might regard when he sees the numbers of potential voters in the area of soybean growing. Do you think that might give him pause?

GK: It may. You know I know he's through our national organization Through Senator Grassley and Senator Ernst in Iowa and Governor Reynolds have all made you know this issue well-known to him and his administration. So I think they know this very well. But they've decided there's other issues they want to address in this and we'll have to wait and see. And you know we've been going to China for 35 years as a soybean industry, so we have longstanding relationships, so we know the Chinese very well and we realize that they are very smart and astute and they knew what they were doing when they together their less sure retaliation. So I guess we'll have to see how it all plays out now.

CO: Well, you have that relationship better than most, don't you? You actually met China's president when he visited the United States in 2012. He was sitting in your living room; you could talk to him about the soybeans. What was that like?

GK: Yeah, that's correct. He came and wanted to visit a modern Iowa farm, and we were chosen and got the opportunity to host him. And one thing that I was impressed by is President Xi of China did really understand agriculture. He had a very good understanding of agriculture, and he made a comment about how important agriculture exchange and agriculture trade was to provide a solid foundation for countries overall relationships. And so you know he gets that. But I think at the same time, what we've heard from our Chinese customers that we work with over that we sell soybeans to as an industry that they don't want a trade war either, but they're going to retaliate as well if this goes forward. So our message is that nobody wins in a trade war, especially when agriculture and food is involved. You know we're not talking about optional products like TVs and airplanes. We're talking about food and protein, and that's what everybody needs to survive and live on. You don't want to use those things as weapons. So our message to everybody is be calm and negotiate, find the solution, work together, and move on from this quickly because nobody's going to win if this goes on for very long.

CO: We’ll leave it there. Mr. Kimberley, thank you.

GK: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

GK: Bye.

JD: Grant Kimberley is the president of the Iowa Soybean Association. We reached him in Des Moines.

[Music: Ambient]

MLK 50 years

[sc]

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: I've looked over and I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the Promised Land.

JD: Martin Luther King Jr., giving what would turn out to be his final speech, at the Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ in Memphis, Tennessee. He was there in support of the city's striking sanitation workers. More than two thousand people packed the church to see him speak. The next day, April 4th, 1968, Reverend King was assassinated. He was shot to death while standing outside his room at the Lorraine Motel. He was just thirty-nine years old. Today, ceremonies around the world marked the fiftieth anniversary of his death — from the National Civil Rights Museum housed in the Memphis motel where he was murdered, to the Vatican. Last night, his daughter, Bernice King, returned to the Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ. There, she described the message her father planned to send, five decades ago.

SOUNDCLIP

BERNICE KING: He made a phone call to my grandmother Alberta King — the one who was shot playing the organ — to give her the title of the message that he would be delivering on Sunday, April the 7th. The title of that message was slated to be: “America May go to Hell”. And if you would permit me I think as I look at the landscape of our world today, America may still go to Hell. So fifty years later, I’m here to declare and decree not only must America be born again, but it's time for America to repent. It's time for America to repent because we have not in fifty years dealt with as bad a challenge to deal with the last vestiges of racism. We must repent because daddy challenged us to deal with a second evil: poverty which we have refused to confront in this nation. And I thank God for the presence of Reverend Barber in resurrecting that poor peoples’ campaign. We have to repent and do belter in this nation and deal with the chasm that exists economically. But finally, we have to repent because of a third evil that my father identified called militarism. Militarism has robbed us of the necessary resources to address the social injustices and the social ills and the social discrepancies in our nation. And so America may go to Hell.

JD: Bernice King, the daughter of Martin Luther King Jr., speaking in Memphis, Tennessee. Today marks 50 years since Dr. King's assassination.

[Music: Horns]

Poop Train

Guest: Heather Hall

JD: To say that it stinks in Parrish, Alabama these days would be an understatement. For weeks now, dozens of train cars have been sitting in the local rail yard — loaded with human waste. The trains are bound for a nearby waste management plant. Or they're supposed to be. But the shipments were recently blocked — and so, the millions of pounds of poop began languishing in Parrish. Heather Hall is the mayor of Parrish, that's where we reached her.

CO: Mayor Hall, can you describe for us the smell in your town of Parrish?

HEATHER HALL: OK, well, on a bad day, it smells like you have rotting animals everywhere. It just smells like dead bodies.

CO: And what's it like on a good day?

HH: On a good day, you can have maybe a small whiff in the air, but it's not as bad. We really don't get the smell unless it's hot. And, unfortunately, we're coming into spring and summer — it’s going to be hot.

CO: This is the beginning. And is the stink all over town, or in parts of it?

HH: It all depends on you know I hate to say the way the wind blows, but that's exactly what it depends on. And it depends on the humidity and where they're working on these cars. But generally, if you're having a bad day, about two-thirds of the town is affected.

CO: It's being called the “Poop Train”, as you know.

HH: I know.

CO: So what exactly is being carried? What is in these dozens of rail cars that are sitting in the middle of your town?

HH: They are it's considered a Grad A and Grade B bio-solid, which is just a really nice way of saying sewer sludge.

CO: OK, why is it sitting there? It's been there for months. Why do you have it there?

HH: It was going to another town, West Jefferson, they brought a lawsuit up on Big Sky, which is the environmental company that is bringing this material into Alabama. So they won their lawsuit, and the railroad decided well OK if we can't go to West Jefferson, the next closest route stop to Big Sky would be the town of Parish. And it kept coming and coming and coming.

CO: Wow! And at peak, how many cars of this sewer sludge did you have?

HH: At the peak, we had about 252 containers. There were 42 rail cars.

CO: What have you got now?

HH: We've got about 150 to 160 of these tractor trailer containers.

CO: This rail yard that they've said this is so convenient — it's a great place to park their poo — how close is it to people, to parks, to houses?

HH: OK, so it's right next door to our softball and baseball fields and right across the street from houses. We're a very small town; we only have 982 people here. The town is about two square miles.

CO: So how are people in your town coping with this?

HH: Well, they're just not going outside. And the one saving grace that we have right now is because it has been so cold.

CO: But when it gets warm, what are the health hazards? The authorities are saying it doesn't pose a health hazard.

HH: Exactly. That's exactly right. EPA and Alabama Department of Environmental Management and Alabama Department of Public Health are all telling us that there are no quote/unquote “hazards”, but that's Grade A bio-solids. We found out that there are also grade B bio-solids. And if you go and look up what constitutes a Grade B bio-solid, it does contain pathogens and can have diseases in there. It’s just a very small quantity. And I guess the questions that we have is that the longer this stuff sits on the railroad, and is cooking in the sun, how long before that material becomes a health hazard? And then also this material draws flies. And again, I said that this material you're talking less than at some points 50 yards from homes, OK? So if this material draws flies and if it's in that grade B bio-solids and the flies travel that 50 yards, if it lands on food or a cup or a dish, what happens then?

CO: It’s so disgusting.

HH: Yes, ma’am.

CO: But to add insult to injury, it's not even your poo. It's not even stuff from Alabama. This is from New York and New Jersey.

HH: Exactly! You're talking I don't even know how many people are in New York City, but I know it's several million people. You listen to the officials in New York City, they'll tell you only about seven per cent of their material is coming this way. So seven per cent of you know two-three million people, that's a lot of poo coming this way.

CO: Why can't they deal with their own stuff? What’s this Big Sky company?

HH: Yes, my understanding is that they don't have room for it there. But New York is a big state. There’s a lot of wide open country out there too that it could be taken too. It shouldn't have to be shipped all the way down to rural Alabama or parked in my rail yard. You know we're a very rural community; we're a very poor community. Honestly, we're beginning to feel like it's a “David and Goliath” situation that we have a big huge city and we have a very large corporation taking advantage of the fact that we have a small town here. Man, I would love to have the legal resources that Mayor de Blasio has. We don't have those resources here. And if we do go to court, whose constitutional rights are going to be upheld here? Are they going to be in the constitutional rights of the people who live here in the town of Parish, whose lives are being affected? Or is it going to be for the rights of the people who are wanting this material, wanting to transport it and turning it into fertilizer? Which group wins?

CO: And so there you are stuck with the Poo Train in the middle of your town. And what's it going to be like in the coming weeks as it gets hot?

HH: Well, I'm hoping that we don't have to think about that. One thing I do have to say: they have been moving this material out, so it's not like it's been sitting here baking. They are using five trucks, and they are moving the material out. But it looks like it's the same amount of material that is there, OK? So even though five trucks are moving it out, we're being told that under cover of night, that they're bringing in more containers in and then sneaking out to empty containers, so it looks like it's the same amount here.

CO: I'm sure New York and New Jersey has more to fill up my understanding as you get rid of it.

HH: Well, and I feel sorry for them. I really do. It's one of those nasty things that we have to deal with. But we just don't want it here, you know?

CO: No kidding. Mayor Hall, I'm so sorry this is happening. I hope you soon see the back end of that whole train shipment. And thanks for speaking with us.

HH: Thank you, ma'am. You have a good day.

CO: You too. Bye bye.

HH: Bye.

JD: Heather Hall is the mayor of parish Alabama. That is where we reached her. We did request responses from the waste management company and the government environmental authorities. We have not yet received any reply. We are more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Jazz]

‘G’ study

Guest: Michael McCloskey

JD: How many forms does the lower-case G's come in? It's a weird question, but it’s straightforward. I'm going to give you a hint: there are two types of lower-case G. And we see both of them all the time, so if you could just go ahead and write both of them for me that would be great. If you can't, don't worry because researchers have found that a surprising number of adults can't either. Michael McCloskey led the research. He's a professor of cognitive science at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Baltimore.

CO: Professor McCloskey, when did you come to realize that there were two lower case G’s?

MICHAEL MCCLOSKEY: I can't even remember, Carol. I think I was aware of that for quite some time. What got me interested in studying the topic was that when a group of us who do research on reading were talking about it, and we brought up the two types of G’s, it became apparent that that many people in the group didn't know what we were talking about.

CO: I didn't realize until we read about your study, and then I thought about it, oh yeah, I guess there are these two G’s. So is that most people's reaction is that they are kind of aware, but not really?

MM: well, They’re aware in the sense that when they're reading, they know these are G’s. But when we asked people are they are different forms of G in lower-case print? Most of the time, they say no. So we're talking about the two forms of G that occur in printed materials. The type that you learn to write has been called “open-tailed G”. It looks kind of like a loop with a fish hook on the bottom of it. Everybody's familiar with that. The other form can kind of look like eyeglasses turned on their side, so there's a top loop and a bottom loop, and a little line that connects the two of them. Even though we’re not that aware of it, we see them all the time. As part of our study, we just went to the library and pulled books off the shelf at random, and looked at what kind of G was appearing in them. And the vast majority of them used this funny loop-tailed form. And that's true even from books that are made for children. In fact, even some books that are made for teaching the alphabet have this form of G in it. Yet, we seem to be not very aware of it.

CO: All right. So what you did is you came up with different versions of the eyeglass version of it to show did people. Describe the four that you presented people in your lineup?

MM: Well, one of them we just flipped it left to right. A second one we left everything the same, except we moved the line that connected the top loop to the bottom loop. In the correct G, that occurs on the left side, and we moved it to the right side. And then in the last version, we left everything correct except, there's a little line that's sometimes called an ear that comes off of the top group on the upper right, and we changed it to the upper left.

CO: Which is right?

MM: The right one has the two loops and the line connecting them on the left, and then the ear or hat coming off at the upper right. We think that if you had to learn to write it, you would have to pay more attention to what it actually looks like, and so you would probably know better what it looks like. It's still somewhat surprising to us that people don't seem more aware of it and don't know better what it looks like because we see it all the time.

CO: Your study discovers that even though we don't learn how to print this way. And even though people can't identify the correct way of doing it in a lineup, do they have any difficulty when they're reading understanding that that's a G when they hit it?

MM: No, we certainly don't think so. That is at least for adults. One of the questions we have is what happens when children are learning to read? A number of researchers now think that learning to write is important for learning to read — that for one reason or another, when you write a letter, you learn better how to recognize that letter when you're reading.

CO: Did you test this in any other way besides the lineup?

MM: We did three different experiments. The first one we were just asking whether people were aware in the sense of being able to think of this G when it was not in front of them? And so we explained to people who have some letters can have different forms for the same letter, and we gave them the example of a printed J can be read either with or without the horizontal line at the top. And then we said now just thinking about printed letters, and just lower case, tell me all the letters you can think that have more than one form? And we feel that almost nobody mentioned G to us, even when we then followed up and said well, what about G? Most people still said no. And then even when we said well, I'm going tell you there are two different forms of the lower-case G, most of them still were unable to think of it.

CO: I'm presuming that the letter that they did get was A — the small letter A?

MM: Not always. There was a little bit of trouble with A, but not nearly as much as with G.

CO: What does this tell you? Why did you think this study would be useful?

MM: Well, one reason has to do with some of the questions we've talked about about whether writing is important for learning to read? And if it is the case that writing is useful for learning to read, and children may have a bit of trouble with this G, it might be worthwhile teaching children to write it. We're not in a position to conclude that right now, but that's a possibility. The other thing that seems to be telling us is that even when we have a lot of exposure to something, we may only learn those parts of it that are necessary for what we're doing. So for this G, if you're just reading it, at all you may learn enough about it shaped to distinguish it from other letters. And the details of it that are not important in determining what letter it is you might not bother to learn. That could be also important for teaching children because if children are only exposed to one or a limited set of fonts or typefaces, they may not learn everything they need to learn. I think more generally though, one of the reasons for our interest was because of what it suggests about how we learn from our experience more generally. It seems counter-intuitive that we could look at this in reading millions of times and still not know it. And so anytime we see something that kind of conflicts with what we expect that suggests to us that there's something we don't understand or something that we have wrong in the way we're thinking about it. And that makes it interesting to investigate. So we think this is telling us something about how people learn from their experience.

CO: I was trying to just print the G with the eyeglass version of it, and I felt like a five-year-old trying to struggle with something. Maybe we should just get rid of it completely, and stick with the open-tailed one?

MM: Maybe so, but that's probably easier said than done.

CO: Well, I challenge people listening to this to try it out. Meanwhile, Professor McCloskey, It’s good to talk to you. Thank you.

MM: Thank you very much for speaking with me.

CO: Bye.

MM: Bye bye.

JD: Michael McCloskey is a professor of cognitive science at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Baltimore. And to test whether you possess the rare ability to pick out the correct loop-tail G, go to our website.

Part two: Senators & Sessions: marijuana, Falcon Lake memorial coin

Senators & Sessions: marijuana

Guest: Denise Batters

JD: A trio of Conservative senators were in Washington today to talk pot with Jeff Sessions. The U.S. Attorney General is not a fan. He's said that cannabis should be minimized, not legalized — and in January, issued a memo calling for a crackdown in states that had voted to make cannabis consumption legal. Denise Batters isn't a fan of decriminalization either — not the way the Trudeau government is going about it. We reached Senator Batters in Washington.

CO: Senator Batters, what was your intention in having this encounter with U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions?

DENISE BATTERS: Well, what we wanted to do we haven't been able, unfortunately, in the Senate, either at committees or when ministers have appeared in front of us in the Senate chamber to answer questions, we have not been able to get answers from many different members and ministers of the Trudeau government. So we wanted to come to Washington to discuss the impacts of marijuana legalization in Canada with senior U.S. leaders.

CO: And what does that impact? What have you understood from Mr. Sessions as being that impact?

DB: Well, tomorrow, we're going to be releasing more about the content of the meeting because I want to be able to discuss with my colleagues and officials exactly what we can share with you from those meetings. But what we came here to discuss was, obviously, with our neighbour and closest trading partner, and a place that many Canadians go to vacation. We wanted to meet with representatives of the U.S. authorities to discuss issues about border security, black markets, impacts on Canadian marijuana users, risks for Canadian travelers in possession of small quantities of marijuana, cross-border issues, including postal trade, and things for people who are trusted travelers going across the border, and perhaps truckers. We wanted to discuss all of those types of issues, and we were able to deal with a lot of unanswered questions at these particular meetings.

CO: Did Mr. Sessions express concern about Canada having legalized marijuana?

DB: Well, it's no secret that he's not a fan of legalized marijuana, but more content about that particular meeting will be discussed tomorrow when I have an opportunity to go through with my colleagues and the officials exactly what we can share with you. Just to be respectful of the content of that meeting.

CO: Well, I'm sure you talked with him about concerns many Canadians have.

DB: Absolutely.

CO: And that if it's legal, and many of them are feeling free that they can smoke and actually consume and can talk about it as well, can say that they are consumers, that they will have problems when they cross the border and if they're asked that question. So what did you learn from Mr. Sessions about those concerns that Canadians are having?

DB: Those are exactly the types of questions that we were here to ask not just him, but also officials from Homeland Security and those types of things because yes, those are critical issues for Canadians to know. They need to know when they go to the border. Potentially we could be dealing with legalization of marijuana within weeks or the next several months. So we need to make sure that Canadians have answers — they deserve answers to those questions.

CO: It's no secret that you also oppose — as Mr. Sessions does — legalized marijuana. Did you tell the U.S. Attorney General that the majority of Canadians — about seven out of ten Canadians — approve of this? That they want legalized marijuana, and that that had been part of the mandate during the election campaign of Mr. Trudeau? Did you let the Americans know that this is something that Canadians want to do?

DB: I think the Americans are well aware of what the situation in Canada is. So what we focused on actually is looking ahead. The bills are both in front of the Senate right now. And what we're looking to do as parliamentarians is to make sure that we can make these bills as good as they possibly can be.

CO: OK, are you actually trying to improve this bill, or are you trying to kill it?

DB: Absolutely. Yes, always I’m trying to improve these bills. And I think that there is you know areas of amendment that could potentially come forward that we're able to bring forward, and we look forward to being able to do that.

CO: So you have accepted that Canada is going to have legalized marijuana?

DB: Well, it seems like that's what the federal government is going to be doing. They've been pretty clear in pushing this particular bill forward. So at this stage — at committee stage — it's always our role to make sure that we can try to look for the best amendments that we can, in hearing the witnesses that come before a committee, in getting a full debate. So yes, we're focused on making sure that we can get the best amendments to make these bills the best that they can be, and help Canadians.

CO: So you accept this this is going to be a law in Canada?

DB: I may not like it; however, because I continue to hear concerns from the people of my province of Saskatchewan, I've been hearing concerns for the last two years from people in my province that they do not want legalization. They are very concerned about the impacts, particularly on mental health of youth. So those are things that we're going to try to address.

CO: Okay, but you may not like it, but you're willing to live with the fact that Canada is going to have legalized marijuana?

DB: I guess that could be the appropriate ending to that particular sentence.

CO: OK. So if that's the case, if you have to kind of hold your nose, did you take that understanding with you to Washington when you had these discussions or when you were discussing things in Mr. Sessions that this is going to happen in Canada, let's harmonize things? Let's make things work across our border. Is that the message you took?

DB: That’s exactly why we're here. That’s exactly why we're here to see if there's appropriate areas that perhaps the bills can be amended to make things better or questions that we can get answered to make sure that we make these bills the best that they can be — because right now, there are a lot of unanswered questions, and frankly, unintended consequences. Particularly from my point of view, I am concerned about how right now I don't think they protect kids as the government is intending that they should.

CO: And that part we know that many people are saying that needs work. Snd that even the time timeline needs a hell of a lot of work too. Did you suggest to your American counterparts in these meetings that it's possible that this law will not be passed?

DB: I didn't suggest that no. That discussion didn’t come up. We were all mostly just dealing with the concerns that we had and trying to find ways to improve things.

CO: Senator Batters, thank you.

DB: OK, thank you very much. I appreciate the call.

JD: Denise Batters is a Conservative Senator. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

[Music: Jazzy jazz]

Sound Of The Day: Bowhead songs

JD: For an entire year, scientists recorded the distinctive songs of bowhead whales using an underwater microphone. And they've discovered the Arctic dwellers aren't just more vocal than other whales. They're jazzier, too. It is thought that only male bowheads sing, and that each has a different song, which likely changes from season to season. The reason for their distinctive jazz performances is, of course, to woo the female bowhead. One of the researchers said he was reminded of the classic 1970 Miles Davis album, "Bitches Brew". You may or may not agree.

SOUNDCLIP

[sc]

MURRY BREWSTER: Prime Minister, you referenced the expulsion of Russian diplomats a little earlier. And the statement from global affairs initially, they said that they are intelligence officers or individuals who have used their diplomatic status to undermine Canada's security or interfere in our democracy. Interfere in our democracy is a very strong language. What do they do precisely?

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I think we all can remember the efforts by Russian propagandists to discredit our Minister of Foreign Affairs in various ways through social media and by sharing scurrilous stories about her. There are multiple ways in which Russia uses cyber social media propaganda to sway public opinion to try and push a pro-Russia narrative. Certainly, our troops in Latvia are currently experiencing a wave of interference and propaganda by Russia. This is a pattern that we have seen regularly. And our desire to stand firm with our allies in the UK and all around the world that yet another illegal and illegitimate act by Russia — this time in Salisbury — means that this was an important symbol of the kind of strength of response and unity that Canada has consistently shown and that NATO allies are pushing back strongly against Russia.

JD: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, speaking earlier today in Ottawa.

[Music: Ambient]

Falcon Lake coin

Guest: Stan Michalak

JD: It was the spring of 1967, as the story goes. Stefan Michalak was eating lunch alone near Falcon Lake, Manitoba. Then, the UFO descended. That tale — known as the "Falcon Lake Incident" — is considered one of the best documented UFO sightings in Canadian history. And now, the event has been immortalized on a coin by the Royal Canadian Mint. Stefan Michalak is dead now. But his son Stan has kept the legend alive. We reached Stan Michalak in Winnipeg.

CO: Stan, how did you learn that your dad's story was going to be made into a coin?

STAN MICHALAK: Well, that was a rather pleasant surprise actually. We had never imagined that. They called me out of the blue and basically said look, we are exploring some unusual aspects of Canadian culture and this is an iconic story, so we would like to do a coin. I can't discount the possibility that Canada Post will be calling me soon, and saying gosh, we'd like to do a stamp!

CO: Just describe what the coin looks like because it's really quite extraordinary, isn't it?

SM: It is very unusual. It’s ovoid-shaped, so egg-shaped. They’ve got the Canadian Shield in the background, so, of course, trees and swamp and rocks. And they've got a figure in the foreground — a male figure — on the ground with his arm raised protecting himself sort of you know recoiling. And then in the air or in the sky above this picture, they have a UFO. And well it looks almost exactly like the sketch that my dad made at the time. And then you take a little black light flashlight that they give you in the package and you shine it on the coin, and sort of the Jets or beams of light or gas that come out of the UFO suddenly light up. So this thing glows in the dark, which is pretty cool.

CO: Wow! And the picture of the man who is your father who is kind of almost shielding himself it appears as this alien spacecraft — this flying saucer — is leaving earth.

SM: Yes, that's the idea.

CO: But now it's a whimsical depiction on the coin. But your father's experience as he has described it to you and others was anything but whimsical. In fact, he was he was quite badly hurt by this encounter. What did he tell you about what happened that day? What he saw?

SM: So he went into the bush, and you know quite far into the bush. And was pursuing his rocks when he noticed that he had stopped it and an area where there was a swamp, and there were some geese, and the geese began making a lot of noise. He thought maybe he was a predator. He looked up, and there were two objects in the sky that were glowing, they were sort of elongated shaped. One of them landed on a flat rock outcropping near where my dad was. The other hovered for a while then left. So it's out on the ground for a good half-an-hour to 40 minutes, and my dad was on his knees chipping away at a rock. And he stayed there in place and watched this craft for a good 20 minutes. He sketched it on his notebook. And then eventually, got up the courage to stand and walk to it thinking that this had to be some sort of American experimental craft. They were having problems. I mean why else would they put down in the middle of nowhere? So he approached the craft, he yelled out to it.

CO: The door was open, right?

SM: Well, there was a there was a panel that had opened on the side of the craft. And he figured oh OK, well these guys need help, so I'm going to call out to them. And he spoke in English and the other languages he knows: Polish, German, Russian. No response. And he recognized, of course, that the craft was hot. It was emitting a great amount of heat. He touched it with his gloved hand, and it burned the tips of the fingers of his glove because it was so hot. And as he went for a closer look, the craft began to rotate, and lifted off the ground, and emitted a jet of gas or steam or whatever hit him in the chest, knocked him over, set his clothes on fire, and this vehicle lifted up and then took off and was gone.

CO: Wow! And he was left with the burns on his body. In fact, in the shape of a grid pattern that was like the pattern he had recorded in his notebook.

SM: Yes, the grid on the side of the craft was exactly duplicated on his chest.

CO: And your father he had serious health issues from that. Well, how did he feel about this story as the years went on?

SM: Well, I think my mother was probably the family genius because she told him the moment that he was home that this was not something he should be sharing with anyone. And I think he regretted having done that in later years. You know you say something that is bizarre, and before long everyone is on your doorstep.

CO: Quite literally. You had like hordes of people all over your lawn, followed you to school — weirdos too a lot of them.

SM: Yeah, you know and it wasn't just the odd ones, although they were there. It was also the officials. I mean the RCMP, the Air Force; we had people from the United States Air Force in the Bluebook Project come up from the States. There were a lot of people, and I think that was the thing that my father was bewildered by is that all these people were either investigating, which meant that they were questioning his veracity, or they were supportive blindly saying we believe you, we think you're wonderful. And he couldn't cope with all of that stuff at the time. He really was quite a simple, straightforward, naive kind of guy. And by simply thinking that he was doing the right thing by reporting it, he really realized that what he had done is open a can of worms, and he couldn't close it again.

CO: Fifty-one years later, this coin, which is quite beautiful, what would your father think if he knew there was a specially minted coin about the Falcon Lake Incident as it came to be called?

SM: He would find it interesting. He would smile. He would laugh. He would say you know of all the things you know I was out there looking for silver, and here they have a silver coin with me on it. I think he would find that quite whimsical. We wanted to sort of close the book on this whole story. And this coin is sort of like the ribbon on a box; it just kind of wraps it all up nicely, and we can call it done.

CO: Well, I'm not sure you're right about that — sounds like it’s taking on a new life of its own. But, Stan it's good to talk to you and hear this story. Thank you.

SM: My pleasure. Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

SM: Bye bye now.

JD: We reached Stan Michalak in Winnipeg.

Part three: Miguna Miguna: Update, Central American caravan, Newfoundland fire

Freeland NAFTA

JD: The pressure to reach a deal on NAFTA is ramping up. As you may have noticed, if you follow the U.S. President on Twitter, Donald Trump wants to have an agreement in hand by mid-April, before he heads to Peru at the Summit of the Americas. Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland plans to make a last-minute dash to D.C. this week for talks that could decide the trade deal's fate. But today, Minister Freeland struck a lighter tone with the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. Here's part of what she said at an event earlier.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRYSTIA FREELAND: I feel so proud to represent our country. It's a very somewhat to my surprise. You know you might think a trade negotiation it's all dry and bread and butter. And it is very dry, and there are very many boring details. My husband actually sometimes kicks me under the table when we're with friends, and he's like people really are not that interested in rules of origin. Roll up is not that interesting. I’m like but it's important. And he’s light please stop talking about it. My 8-year-old son who was given an X Box for Christmas — not my idea — in one of his games, has an avatar. And he said to me his avatar is called “NAFTA Man”. And NAFTA Man’s most powerful weapon is three boards of softwood lumber. So that tells you the kind of level of excitement you know at my family dinner table.

SPEAKER: Who else is in the game besides your son?

CF: I think I don't actually play the game.

SPEAKER: Like who is the enemy in the game?

CF: I'm not going to say.

SPEAKER: Good.

CF: I'm not going to say. I'm not going to say.

SPEAKER: Mr. T.

CF: But I have a really strong sense, and I take extreme pride in being out there in the world and in speaking for Canada.

JD: Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland, speaking in Winnipeg earlier today. Meanwhile, the U.S. Ambassador to Canada Kelly Kraft was in Toronto today. She told an audience at the Empire Club that she has, quote, “every confidence” that a NAFTA deal will be reached.

SOUNDCLIP

KELLY KRAFT: I've yet to meet a Canadian who thinks the 23 agreement is perfect. It's like a solid house; it needs to be updated to reflect the 21st century, but there's no reason to tear it down. Now I could bore you with a sad story about the American dairy producers and the Canadian supply management system that keeps us from competing in this market. Or I could talk about the market access for American telecom companies or drug patents. Let's just say the list of these kinds of grievances is long on both sides of the border. You know what else is long? The lineup of cars back into Canada every weekend that has to stop and declare any purchase when traveling just for the day. Think of the carbon footprint of those traffic jams spread across the border. As I've said earlier, I'm confident we will get a deal that everyone feels good about, and one that sets us on great footing for the next quarter century. And I'm just as confident that America and Canada will continue to have the strong military, law enforcement, environmental, and economic ties that have served us both well. That kind of relationship cannot be fabricated. It has survived wars and calamity. It is as familiar as my favorite robe or as my trusty childhood friend. We have two great countries with one amazing future.

JD: Ambassador Kelly Kraft, U.S. Ambassador to Canada, delivering a speech in Toronto today at the Empire Club.

[Music: Indie rock]

Miguna Miguna: Update

Guest: Miguna Miguna

JD: Miguna Miguna has had a bad week. Last Thursday, we told you about the Kenyan-Canadian opposition activist’s ordeal at Nairobi's international airport. He tried to enter the country as Kenyan citizen. He was turned away. He ended up being beaten, drugged, and deported to Dubai. It marked the second time this year that Mr. Miguna had been kicked out of Kenya. Last February, official deported him, accusing him of treason for taking part in a mock swearing-in ceremony for opposition leader Raila Odinga. This week, Mr. Miguna has returned to Canada for medical tests. We reached him at his family home in Richmond Hill, Ontario.

CO: Mr. Miguna, how are you feeling today physically and emotionally?

MIGUNA MIGUNA: Tired, exhausted, and sick.

CO: You've had quite a week. And actually, since last we talked, you've been on quite a ride. You travelled to Nairobi last week. You were denied entry. And we know that you were in an airport bathroom barricaded in for 72 hours until the police broke down the door. Tell us about where you were — the conditions in which you spent that week?

MM: The conditions were horrible. They kidnapped me and took me to the toilet, where they kept me until the day they sedated me and took me out of consciousness.

CO: How did they sedate you? What did they do?

MM: I was in the room alone. They refused to allow the consular general from Canada to come and see me in the morning. So I had locked the door from inside. They then started breaking the door, and they came in, grabbed me, put me to the ground, got a command go for the veins, go for the veins. And they started injecting me on the arms and also the soles of my feet. I cried out but, of course, after some time, I passed out.

CO: And sorry, what were they injecting into your veins? Do you know?

MM: How would I know?

CO: But you lost consciousness, I think?

MM: I lost consciousness. I woke up in Dubai.

CO: And so they put you on a plane unconscious?

MM: Unconscious.

CO: And you ended up in Dubai.

MM: I didn't know where I was. So I asked them where are we? They told me Dubai. So I knew because I remember them injecting me. I stood up. I tried to pick up my bag, but I couldn't. I was too weak, so they picked the bag. They took me to the immigration of the airport. I told them I needed medical attention. They took me to the emergency clinic, but they couldn't do toxicology tests because they are limited.

CO: But you’re again back in Canada. This is the second time we've spoken to you and Kenya has forced you to be back here. Why keep trying? I mean they clearly are going to keep attempting to prevent you from coming into the country.

MM: Asking everybody who has fought for freedom why not just surrender? Because you shouldn't surrender to oppression; you shouldn't surrender to people who are not following the rule of law. People who are ruling by the gun, people who want to subject everybody to oppression. It is not right.

CO: In Kenya, they’re is saying that you are an undocumented, unestablished passenger — that it was a technicality. And for technical reasons, your paperwork wasn't in order. That's why you couldn't come in. It's got nothing to do with your politics or what you’re trying to do. What do you say to them?

MM: That's just rubbish because the matter went to court, and the court ruled that they should release me immediately. So which one should people obey?

CO: You know the BBC has reported that you have become probably the best known political figure in Kenya right now — that everybody's talking in the country about you. And people are also very frustrated with Raila Odinga, and he seems to be making compromises with Uhuru Kenyatta, and people are unhappy about that. Do you want to go back to Kenya to play a larger role on the political stage than you did in the past?

MM: That is why I was going back on the 26th. We formed a movement which I head called the National Resistance Movement. We've now changed the name to the National Revolutionary Movement. It is a movement that is supported by millions of Kenya, and it is that movement and myself that they fear. Because if it was about swearing Raila, in it was not just me; Raila himself was there and many others. But they have picked me because they know the potential, and they are afraid that if I went back and organized and let the NRM, they would probably lose power. So this is desperation. And if people have decided that any one of us will end up leading Kenya then so be it. But it cannot be it clique — a small minority — choosing that for Kenya.

CO: In their efforts to silence you, to get rid of you, to have uniting the country, you have become probably the loudest voice in Kenya right now. Can you see why they would, even more, want to prevent you from returning now that it's called the National Revolutionary Movement? That you have this powerful voice, this response in the country that they really don't want you to show up?

MM: At some point, we have to make a choice. It’s Kenyan democracy or a despotic state. And Kenya is a democracy, and if stability and peace means that the government would have to be a popular government elected by the people, then they have no option but to allow me to go back because how then do you prevent a Kenyan-born citizen from going back to his native land?

CO: When you were going through your week from hell, and going from Kenya to Dubai. We spoke with your wife, with your family. They were very, very worried about your safety. Do you share their concerns that your life might be in danger now?

MM: Yes, of course, I do. I mean this is not a Japanese suicide mission. This is a very well-thought-out, responsible, calculated, and strategic action. I did not start this trouble yesterday or a decade ago. I came to Canada precisely as a result of this struggle. I was in this struggle in 1987 before I was married before I had children. So you can understand why I'm very passionate about this. I decided that I was not going to be a statistic in Kenya’s data in unfolding political events. So yes, risks have to be taken.

CO: Mr. Miguna, I hope you remain safe. And I'm glad to speak with you again. Thank you.

MM: Thank you very much.

CO: Take care.

JD: Miguna Miguna is a Kenyan-Canadian opposition activist, who was recently deported again from Kenya. We reached him at his home in Richmond Hill, Ontario.

[Music: Guitar]

Dateline: MBS hotel

JD: Dateline: LA.

[Music: Dateline theme]

JD: Late last year, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia started a public crackdown on corruption. He detained two hundred people, including members of the royal family. To regain their freedom, all they had to do was undergo interrogation, pay an enormous fine, and sign a non-disclosure agreement. Now, it's true that there was no due process for the detainees, and that they were all enormously wealthy. And it's also true that critics said the Crown Prince's crackdown was more about consolidating power than fighting corruption. But the thing is this: he didn't just lock these rich miscreants up in some dull, dark dock. He housed them at the luxurious, five-star Ritz Carlton in Riyadh. If that's how he treats affluent people he's called corrupt, how does he treat affluent people he calls friends? The answer won't surprise you! This week, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — or MBS, as he's known — made his first-ever trip to Los Angeles. And as you'd expect, he booked some pretty fancy lodgings: the Four Seasons Los Angeles. Cheapest room there goes for 625 dollars U.S. Whereas the Presidential Suite East — one of 100 luxury suites — will cost you 11,000 bucks U.S. a night. You've probably guessed that MBS booked that super-fancy room. And you're right. But he also booked the humble 625-dollar room. He booked all the rooms. Every one of the 285 rooms at the 16-storey Four Seasons Los Angeles, from Tuesday to Thursday of this week. That might seem excessive to you. It might even seem incongruous for a guy who's publicly railed against corruption. But MBS is trying to brand himself as a reformer who embraces the West. And in the end, creating an impressive story might just be worth renting sixteen impressive storeys.

[Music: Ambient]

Central American caravan

Guest: Irineo Mujica

JD: They number more than 1,000. As you've been hearing on the news, a caravan of migrants, mostly from Honduras, have been making their way through Mexico toward the U.S. border. After it prompted angry tweets from Donald Trump, the Mexican government says it is attempting to disband it. But the caravan's leaders dispute that. For the past several days, they've stayed in one place, in Matias Romero, Oaxaca state, in the south of the country. They say they're staying there to work with Mexican authorities to get travel documents for the migrants. The caravan was organized by a group called Pueblos Sin Fronteras, or People Without Borders. Irineo Mujica is the director of the organization. We reached him with the Caravan, in Matias Romero.

CO: Irineo, can you just describe what's around you right now? Describe the scene and the people.

IRINEO MUJICA: There is this kind of like a park. And it has got a lot of families and kids you know like picnic kind of style. And a lot of kids and women.

CO: The people traveling with you, they cannot stay in Honduras. Can you tell us why they have left?

IM: Mostly because of the economic pressure.

CO: And how many people are hoping to go to the United States in your group?

IM: I think about 15 to 20 per cent.

CO: We're hearing that officials in Mexico they want to end your caravan. They want to disband it. Have you heard that?

IM: No. Well, I heard it from other people. But they’ve been helping us. Helping us make sure that the kids are safe. Helping taking us to the doctor. Helping us with food. They’ve been pretty helpful and documenting people, making sure that no one's hurt. They’ve been really good.

CO: You know that President Trump is going to prevent any of you from crossing into the United States.

IM: He cannot prevent people from asking asylum. If he knows the law, he’s just playing with people's minds.

CO: He has said he's going to send the National Guard to prevent you and the other some getting into the United States.

IM: We're not even going. We're going to Mexico City. We will never see that army.

CO: But it also seems that President Trump is trying to convince the Mexican authorities to prevent you from going any further so he doesn't have to deal with this issue?

IM: Yeah, we know he’s putting a lot of pressure. But so far it hasn’t worked.

CO: So far it hasn't worked.

IM: Yes.

CO: Do you think that President Trump is bluffing?

IM: President Trump is just playing politics, and using us as a scapegoat to get his way on the wall and his way on immigration. He's a president that responsibly does not care about issues. He cares about what he wants, and he uses every means to get there.

CO: And what about you? What are your hopes at this point?

IM: I am an American citizen, I’m a Mexico citizen; I travel in and out. Donald Trump cannot stop me because I'm a citizen. He cannot prevent it for all these people.

CO: Are you telling people that you're with that you think they will be successful getting to the United States?

IM: No, I don't tell them. They have to seek counsel before they make a decision. The United States is not easy. If they should choose Mexico, because Mexico is already welcoming them.

CO: Do you think most the people you're with will stay in Mexico?

IM: We hope so. I think 80 per cent will stay in Mexico.

CO: And do the people you're you say a lot of women and children, families, are they hoping to go back to Honduras some day?

IM: I don’t know. I haven’t asked those questions today. I hope one day Honduras will become a better place to live, and they can go back home like a lot of Mexican do when their conditions are better.

CO: Irineo, we'll leave it there. And thank you for speaking with me.

IM: Thank you.

JD: Irineo Mujica is the director of Pueblos Sin Fronteras. We reached him in Matias Romero, Oaxaca state.

[Music: Piano]

Newfoundland fire

Guest: Earl Pilgrim

JD: Earl Pilgrim saw his life's work go up in flames. Mr. Pilgrim is an author. He is from Newfoundland. He has published several books about life on Newfoundland's Great Northern Peninsula. He's also the keeper of much of the area's history. On Saturday, a fire that started in the basement quickly engulfed the entire house — along with Mr. Pilgrim's irreplaceable library. We reached Earl Pilgrim in Roddickton.

CO: Earl, I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

EARL PILGRIM: Thank you, yes.

CO: Were you able to salvage anything from your home before it went up in flames?

EP: Well, I was lucky to get out with just my dress socks on, no boots, and my shirt and pants.

CO: At what point did you notice that your house was on fire?

EP: I had a carpenter in, and we installed a new toilet. And I started picking up the debris and cardboard what not that was there. And I threw it in the furnace. And when I opened the door, then I noticed that one of the small bags had rolled out into the front, so I took the poker I had there, and I pushed it back in. And I went down to the basement, and the fire was in the wood box. And had gone up the wall, and was coming along on the ceiling just as quick as that. And smoke towering out, so I took a bucket of water, and threw on it. But that made no difference. And I went outside and started to scream for people to call the fire department. So in not very long, a truck came. And when they come, the fire was starting to spread in the basement. So they come there, and they got their hoses out, and they said is the power still on? I said yeah, we haven’t had no power shut off. Well, they start spraying the water on the outside of the building then. They wouldn't put anything in there because they was afraid to get electrocuted.

CO: But now, you didn't just lose a house where I know you and your wife came when you're married and raised your kids. But this had all your work in it. You’ve published many books detailing life on the Great Northern Peninsula, and you had many more on the go and research there. What's happened to all that material? Is it all gone?

EP: Everything gone. Not a thing left. All of the documents I've collected over the years and written all gone — everything.

CO: I know you were working on a trilogy. Can you reconstruct it? I hate to say it can you start again?

EP: Well, I might be able to piece together a nice bit of it, you know? But see when you get your notes, you got dates names, and see you because you're interviewing some person that’s probably 95-96 years old. And on the other hand, a lot of the people up there — the old people — when they die, they will me their books, and I end up with all of those books. I mean a lot of it was collector's items.

CO: I understand you had 8,000 books in your library, is that right?

EP: I'd say approximately 8,000 books, yeah.

CO: And many of them you couldn't replace those.

EP: I had books there that they printed them and they were so controversial back in the 1800’s that they collected them all, and I ended up with some of them. They was not printed nowhere else.

CO: I was reading that your wife just died about a year-and-a-half-ago, and you had just started getting back to work after that when this happened.

EP: Yeah, that's right. My wife died of leukemia. And, of course, then I was just starting to get back to do the other two volumes of as three volume operation I had. So I published the first volume, and the rest of it right in the midst of it, my wife died. So then, of course, that threw the whole team after 51 years because she helped me out a lot on it.

CO: Earl, I'm so sorry.

EP: Oh, you know those two are two hard blows something to deal with, you know? so I come up here today up at the lodge in to mountains. So I’ll be here a little bit now before I go back home.

CO: And that was the house you raised your family in. How many years were you in the house?

EP: Forty-eight years.

CO: You have so much rebuilding to do, not just your house, but you all your work. What are you going to do?

EP: I got a good government pension, so I get a bit of money there. The rest of it well, I've got to write a few more books and get it onto market I suppose.

CO: Well, Earl, our hearts go out to you. It's just awful what you're putting up with. And I just hope you have people around who can help you get up on your feet again.

EP: Oh yeah, I got good support.

CO: Earl, take care of yourself. Thank you.

EP: Thank you very much for calling.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Earl Pilgrim is a Newfoundland author, from Roddickton. His house — along with 8,000 books, unpublished works, and valuable historical records — all went up in flames on Saturday night.

April 4, 2018 episode transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode