Why this Afghan women's rights activist wants the world to talk to the Taliban

Many Afghan women's rights advocates who are living in exile have asked the international community to take a hard line against the Taliban government. 

But Mahbouba Seraj says that's an easy stance to take when you're not facing the realities of life inside Afghanistan.

Seraj is the founder of the Afghan Women's Network, an umbrella group that supports women's organizations in the country. She says sanctions and a lack of diplomacy with the Taliban are making it harder for women still living there. 

Here is part of her conversation with As It Happens host Nil Köksal. 

Afghan women are clearly up against a lot right now. Day to day, from where you are and what you're seeing, what exactly are they dealing with?

The question is: What exactly aren't they dealing with? 

Because right now they are dealing with every single thing that is not happening in their lives. Lack of education, lack of access to medical facilities, lack of access to work, lack of access to money, to help — I mean, you name it. 

Why have you decided to stay?

I thought: Somebody has to.  

I love my people very much. Very, very much. And I thought I should be around them because I know my presence here and being around them helps. And because it does, then I'm fine.

We've seen clear examples of just how dangerous it is for women there — high-profile women, certainly. Former Afghan MP Mursal Nabizada ... was murdered in Kabul earlier this month. And we spoke with [her friend and former colleague] Fawzia Koofi at that time, who said she worried that Ms. Nabizada's death wouldn't be the last killing. But you've said you think Afghan women should come back, and they should stay. Why?

Look at what is happening. All of these things that are happening in Afghanistan, if the women of Afghanistan were here, it wouldn't have happened. I can promise you that.

How?

There would have been more voices from inside Afghanistan. There would have been more possibilities of doing things from inside Afghanistan, not only from outside. It would have been very different.

I'm not saying now that everybody should really be coming back. I don't think now is a good time. But if they had stayed, things would have been very different. 

Can you understand that ... some women are scared, some other former MPs who saw Ms. Nabizada's death and want to get out and could be coming to Canada?

I understand the fear. Please believe me. It's not that I don't understand it. I understand all of it. But then there is something else that I do understand also. We are born and we are living, and life is only once.

Although I'm not supposed to be saying that, because I'm a much older woman than any one of these people. They are young. My life is really behind me. 

But at the same time, why should we live in so much misery? I mean, why is it? You don't even know what the women of Afghanistan are going through these days. I swear to you, I deal with them from morning to night. 

It is the most heartbreaking, heartbreaking situation in the world to see them. They are completely broken. They are poor. They are hungry. They are cold. I mean, poverty on one side, the lack of education, and the lack of the real attention of the world on the other side.

This whole thing, it seems like an absolute nightmare…. It's like, when are we going to wake up?

Canada has faced some criticism for not moving more quickly to help Ms. Nabizada flee Kabul…. But what would real attention look like from Canada? 

Canada is … helping people to get out of Afghanistan and go to Canada and … start a life there. And I am so forever grateful for that.

At the same time, if they are doing it, and this is something that they have promised to the people of Afghanistan, then they better do it really faster and better and more systematically so these people could get out of here.

If they are not doing it, then they should say, "No, we are not doing it," and let us be. 

It's a weird give and take game that is going on, and … I find it very, very hurtful, honestly, because people don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

At the same time ... look at the brain drain that is happening right now in Afghanistan, for God's sakes. This is unbelievable. I can't see the whole situation without having the future of Afghanistan in my mind. I haven't given up on this country. I really haven't. Nor on the people of this country.

It's a brain drain. Everybody that knew something, learned something, was somebody — gone. What are we going to do? 

The sanctions are happening on the people. And the people that are paying the highest price are the poorest.- Mahbouba Seraj, Afghan Women's Network

What would you say to women who fled Afghanistan who have come on our program and said that one of the things they want to see from the rest of the world is even harsher international sanctions on the Taliban?

We can all say harsher this and harsher that when we are away from the whole thing....If this was going to be implemented on them, and they would be living every single day of life in Afghanistan, they would not ask for it.

So you think sanctions on the Taliban will filter down to people who live there and make them suffer even more? 

That's the only thing that is happening. Any kind of a sanction, that's what happens.

The world thinks that they are doing the sanctions on the government. It's never happening on the government. The sanctions are happening on the people. And the people that are paying the highest price are the poorest.

What should happen then? What is the answer?

Really very serious diplomatic talks, very serious diplomatic discussions, a whole lot of give and take from both sides, and really seriously wanting to save Afghanistan and make sure that it's going to stay a country, not torn up into different pieces of a landmass because it is very rich underneath … the ground.

That will not help us. But that's the way the world is kind of treating us. And it's not right.

There are those who will say the Taliban has lied to us before. We're seeing some of that happen right now. So what would be the point?

Of course, they have lied. The world lied to us. Have they forgotten that? Our government lied to us. Our presidents lied to us. They all lied to us. 

So when are we going to stop the cycle of lying and this misery? We have to stop it somehow, some way. The people are just dying. They have reached their limit. For God's sake, they've reached the limit.