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The AIH transcript for April 01, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: They'll be the judge of that. Voters in Wisconsin head to the polls to choose a new state Supreme Court justice -- in what has become the most expensive judicial race in U.S. history -- and a possible signal for where the crucial swing state is headed next.

CH: A bleak prognosis. As the Trump administration cuts health and science funding, hundreds of researchers are sounding the alarm. One of them tells us every American should be concerned.

NK: Homes are where her heart is. A woman in Nova Scotia moves into a new apartment, after spending the winter in a trailer. She says she doesn't know who she'll vote for yet -- but she knows housing and affordability are her top issues.

CH: Signing of the times. A Canadian-born author is overwhelmed by the response, after a stranger posted a now-viral Tiktok of him sitting alone at a bookstore, waiting to autograph copies of his book -- which no one was buying.

NK: Left scrambling. A Norwegian soccer club quietly swapped its usual prize for their "Man of the Match" -- which left a heroic goalie unsure what to do with his four giant trays of unexpected eggs.

CH: And...tighten your belting. In London, jangling guitars are jangling the nerves of people who live and work nearby -- and now, a judge has declared local buskers to be akin to psychological torture.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition. Radio that always strikes a chord -- but just the one, we promise.

[theme]

Part 1: WI Supreme Court Election, ELXN: NS Renter, Lonely Author

WI Supreme Court Election

Guest: JR Ross

CH: The future of humankind will be decided today, in the State of Wisconsin. At least, that's what this guy thinks.

SOUNDCLIP

ELON MUSK: I feel like this is one of those things that may not seem that it's gonna affect the entire destiny of humanity, but I think it will.

CH: Elon Musk at a recent rally in Green Bay. And that fight for the future of humanity that he mentioned is the election of a new Wisconsin state Supreme Court justice. Mr. Musk gave out two checks for a million dollars each at that rally. And that is just a small part of the over $20 million he's poured into that race. On the other side, the likes of George Soros and democratic Illinois governor, JB Pritzker have also made big donations. The choice is between liberal Susan Crawford and conservative Brad Schimmel. The winner will determine whether left- or right-leaning justices hold the majority on the bench with decisions on abortion rights and gerrymandering coming up. And of course, this state election will also be a referendum on the chaotic start of Donald Trump's second term in office. JR Ross is the editor of Wispolitics.com. We reached him in Madison.

NK: JR, attention from billionaire donors, as well as from media around the world. How are Wisconsinites feeling about all of those eyes on them?

JR ROSS: It's just Election Day again. [chuckling] Like, we're, we're like the purplest of purple states in the United States. We're used to the media attention. We're use to millions of ads. It's just another Election Day in Wisconsin where, you know, things are on the razor's edge.

NK: just another Election Day when the fate of humanity is at play? [both chuckling]

JR: We're cool as cucumbers, yes. I mean, look, Wisconsin, I've covered every presidential election in Wisconsin since 2000. Except for two of them, they were decided by less than 30,000 votes. Those two happened to have Barack Obama on the ballot. Now, people get tired of the ads, don't get me wrong, but they're used to it. And the thing about Wisconsinites is every time an election happens, they answer the bell and turn out the vote. And I'm hearing signs of high turnout again in Wisconsin. We're good to go. Normal Election Day in Wisconsin.

NK: People are engaged and turning out, as you've said, and clearly understand the power that they hold in their hands when they go to mark those ballots. But as you think back to the past few weeks and months of this campaign, what stands out most in your mind about it?

JR: Probably the most unique thing has been the involvement of Elon Musk. Looking at the reports that I've been able to track in other spending, he and his PACs have put about $24 million in this race. He has funded a operation trying to turn out Trump voters. He is fully engaged in this election. Now, some believe that's because he has filed a lawsuit. There's a state law in Wisconsin that bars manufacturers of vehicles from having a dealership. Elon Musk is a unique role, a unique factor in Wisconsin Supreme Court is because of the money he's bringing to bear. And then two, Democrats will tell you he motivates their base. Democrats nationally in the United States are somewhat depressed. They don't really have a clear leader or clear message after what happened November of '24. Elon Musk and Donald Trump make them angry. And anger can be a great motivator to get to the polls and express that. and we're seeing signs of people wanting to express that kind of unhappiness in the polls. Also, the amount of money flowing into Wisconsin, Susan Crawford raised more than $10 million in six weeks from individual donors. And a lot of it came from out of state, and people have told me that that's a reflection of these Democratic activists from the country looking for a place to express their outrage, their unhappeness with Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

NK: And Soros donated to the Democratic candidate as well, we should say. But as you mentioned, the numbers are hugely different.

JR: Everybody has a billionaire in Wisconsin right now. [NK laughs] George Soros has done $2 million to the State Democratic Party. JB Pritzker, the governor of Illinois, is like $1.5 million. There's the Uihleins, who are a business couple, have done seven figures. In Wisconsin, there's a unique law that allows donors to make unlimited contributions to political parties, which can then make unlimited transfers to candidates. That's helped fuel that spending, for sure.

NK: So, it sounds like you, you agree with those, you know, who are outside of Wisconsin, who are looking at this race. And, and framing it as a referendum on Trump and Musk and the current administration?

JR: You know, I've heard that argument. And for sure, you will see people nationally make it out to that. When I talked to my sources in Wisconsin, they pointed out that the number one issue we see in ads on TV right now is crime. So, it's not about Trump or Musk, it's crime. That said, you can't ignore the involvement of Elon Musk in the way Trump factors. And for Republicans, they're happy to see that because they don't want the embarrassment of the fist big statewide election in a swing state a few months into Trump's term go badly for them. If Brad Schimmel loses, that'll be painted nationally as a setback for Trump, as a pushback against his administration. For Democrats, likewise, there are high stakes here, too. Because there's all this anti-Trump energy, all this anti-Musk energy. If you can't take all that energy, all that money, and that natural advantage and win, what does it say about where your movement is right now? So, high stakes for both parties in this race.

NK: You mentioned the ubiquitous ads. We'll play some of those from both candidates now.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: The new neighbour is a pedophile, thanks to judge Susan Crawford.

MAN: Brad Schimmel let a sex predator loose on our kids.

WOMAN: Crawford let the predator out in just four years. Criminals are praying Susan Crawford gets elected.

MAN: If you want them to be safe, don't vote for him.

NK: [chuckling] Relaxing ads for, for people to take in. I can see why you said you're not sure how people feel about them after watching them for so long now, and that they're inescapable. But do you feel they're moving the needle either way?

JR: People I talk to feel like Schimmel has done a good job of really hitting Crawford on crime. But also, Democrats, like, she's done a job of hitting back, at least kind of muddied the water. And so, you think about the issues in this race, there's crime, and there's abortion. And so, Democrats feel that abortion is still a motivating issue for their base. Then there's the Elon Musk/Trump factor, which cuts both ways.

NK: What's your sense of things? Are you gonna make a prediction?

JR: I don't do predictions. After 25 years doing this, I do not do predictions. And they never go well. What I can tell you, though, from my sources is that they have felt like you're not going to see a race like two years ago where the liberal candidate won by 11 points.

NK: You know, even in the U.S. judges, even in the U.S. system, judges are supposed to be impartial. Both judges in this race are promising to be that. But when we're talking about this kind of money flowing into the race, this level of polarization and partisan politics, how are they going to be able to stay impartial?

JR: The veneer of being nonpartisan has been swept away in Wisconsin judicial races. These guys are running as a Democrat and a Republican. They don't have those labels on the ballot next to their names, but they are clearly embracing partisan labels. And, you know, in talking to people, they have kind of pointed out this does not help the court's reputation. This kind of money being spent is not going to assure people that these guys are impartial, nonpartisans jurists. That they're really just politicians in black robes.

NK: JR, good to have you on the show. Thank you.

JR: No, anytime.

CH: JR Ross is the editor of Wispolitics.com. We reached him in Madison

[chillhop]

ELXN: NS Renter

Guest: Marlene Haight

CH: These days, whether you rent or own, live in a big city or a small town, you're probably at least slightly preoccupied with the cost of housing. Party leaders know we're thinking about it -- and on the campaign trail, they're promising to help us all relax.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK CARNEY: Our goal is to double the pace of housing construction to almost half a million new homes every single year. Homes you can afford to buy. Homes that are more sustainable, and cost less to live in.

JAGMEET SINGH: And we are going to ban large corporate landlords from engaging the predatory practice of buying up affordable homes. We are going ban that.

PIERRE POILIEVRE: A new Conservative government will put Canada first by taking GST, the federal sales tax, off of all homes under $1.3 million. We will axe the tax, so that every Canadian can buy a new home tax-free.

CH: Liberal Leader Mark Carney, promising to speed up residential construction; NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh, pledging to go after corporate landlords; and Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre, touting his tax cut promise for new home sales. During this federal election campaign, we're asking voters across the country where they're feeling the squeeze. And for Marlene Haight of Digby, Nova Scotia, housing is the big concern. She got renovicted last year -- and wound up living in a trailer. Today she's finally moving into a brand-new apartment -- and that's where we reached her.

NK: Marlene, moving day is no small thing. How does it feel for you to be out of that trailer and in your own place?

MARLENE HAIGHT: Oh, it's lovely. I'm sitting here now in my love seat, just looking outside at the sunshine and so much room.

NK: That sounds beautiful. Is it emotional, too?

MH: It is very emotional, very, very emotional. I just feel so blessed that Brian gave me one of these apartments to live in, and it's, well, didn't give it to me. I mean, I pay for it, [NK chuckles] but it is lovely. It is absolutely lovely. There is space for everything, lots of covered space. We're opening boxes and then saying, is that mine? [both chuckle]

NK: It's kind of pinch me moments all day.

MH: Yeah, that's right. That's right.

NK: And Brian, you were mentioning, got you on the list for this subsidized housing, right?

MH: Yes. Right, right, that is correct. Because it's hard to find something that is affordable.

NK: Let's go back in time a little bit, you lost your previous apartment.

MH: Correct.

NK: And you ended up camping out in the parking lot of your church. How did you go from that to that?

MH: Well, I just couldn't find anything that was affordable. And so, you know, my pastor said to me, she said, well, what is your ideal thing? Do you want an apartment, or have you thought about buying a trailer? And I said, well, I don't know. Maybe it's best to buy a trailer right now. We worked on it hard and got it all fixed up. You know, spent a fair amount of money on it to get it livable. And I'd never camped in my life. So, I turned 66 years old, and I started camping.

NK: That's not a small thing either. What was it like being there in the winter?

MH: I had run electricity over there, so I had 30 amps hooked to the trailer. So, it wasn't really cold, but the very first night I slept there, because it's basically on what they call the 101 Highway now, and the tractor trailer's going by. And, like, at 3 in the morning, I sat right up in bed, and I'm like, wow, what is going on?! [chuckling]

NK: Not a restful place.

MH: You do get used to it, but the wind. You know, of course, it's right off the St. Mary's Bay. You know, there's lots of nights the trailer was really rocking back and forth. It just, the wind would just take it. Like, one night, I thought we were going to tip over, but we made it, I made it through, and the cat made it through. Because the cat was scared when the wind was blowing. [laughing]

NK: Well I know your cat hasn't moved into the new place yet, but you're probably excited for the cat to check it out, too?

MH: Yes, very excited. She'll be here in a few hours.

NK: What are rent prices like?

MH: Well, a couple places I called were $1,200, some more than that, but you can find some that might be cheaper, but really aren't, I'm going to say, fit to live in.

NK: And we should let our listeners know you have a full-time job, long-time at Home Hardware. Did you ever think it would get to the point you found yourself in?

MH: Never. Not at all in my wildest dreams did I ever think that, uh, I would get to that place. The other apartment I was in, I was in there for eleven or twelve years. And, uh, it was, you know, affordable and, uh, but then it wasn't going to be anymore once they decided to, uh, fix them up.

NK: What was the price before, and then what was it going to be?

MH: Well, of course, the government had put the cap on rent, right? So, of course, my rent was only about $500. So, because when I first moved in there 11 years ago, the girl, you know, it was $385 when I moved in. And I said to her, why is it so cheap? And she said, well, Marlene, I can charge you more. I said, no, no, that's fine. And she said, I'm going to tell you like this, there are people in this town who cannot afford higher. And she said that's why we try to keep ours down.

NK: But then it jumped up.

MH: They said that if we wanted to move back in, it would be $1,100, I believe.

NK: In Digby, how many other people do you think are in the same boat as you?

MH: It's unbelievable. Like, there are so many people living in trailers around Digby County. It is, like, I couldn't even make a wild guess how many, but I know there are oodles of them. Everybody tells me about them. And you can drive, and you know where people are living. Um, and then some are in places that are rat-infested, or mould, and yeah, it's not good.

NK: So, in this building you've moved into, this new building, some of the units, like yours, are government subsidized. Others are regular rentals. We talked about getting on that list. How long did you have to wait? How difficult was it to get that spot? Because it's not an unlimited supply, obviously.

MH: Well, I had had my name on for a while, but I've known Brian for all my life. And he was quite upset that I was being put out of my apartment. And, you know, couldn't afford something. I mean, I'm a senior, I am single, so I don't have that spouse that can help me along. So, he said, I will have one for you.

NK: what does having this new space and that view give you?

MH: Joy in my heart. I just feel like God has blessed me so much to be able to be here and have this. Sometimes, I just want to sit and the tears just come because it's, I'm just in awe that I have something like this.

NK: Oh, I'm glad you do, Marlene. So, when you head out to vote in a few weeks, what do you think will be the deciding factor for you?

MH: I really don't know. I really cannot say yet because I'm still just sort of up in the air who I'm going to vote for. I will keep listening and see what their promises are, but they need to come through with it. Come through with more units, or more buildings, or something of some kind so that these people can get out of the woods and have a proper home. It's a terrible thing to have to raise children with them, you know, sleeping in tents.

NK: Marlene, congratulations again. Good luck with the rest of your move. Thank you for this.

MH: You're very welcome.

CH: Marlene Haight lives in Digby, Nova Scotia -- as of today, in a brand-new apartment. She's one of the voters from across the country we'll be talking to during this campaign -- and asking, where are you feeling the squeeze?

[jaunty piano]

Lonely Author

Guest: Jonathan Stanley

CH: Until recently, Toronto-born author Jonathan Stanley had one follower on TikTok: his wife. Today, he's at over 750,000 -- because someone took a video of him sitting alone in a bookstore. It was posted by another TikToker, named Taylor Dinelli. And it shows a poignantly solitary Mr. Stanley at a table in a Barnes & Noble in Pennsylvania -- the Cranberries' melancholy hit Dreams playing in the background. In the caption, Ms. Dinelli wrote, “This sweet man is sitting at B&N with a stack of his books he wrote, and my heart is breaking every time someone passes him.” Unquote. That video has been liked more than 10 million times. And now, Mr. Stanley isn't having any trouble selling his book. It's called Purposeful Performance: The Secret Mix of Connecting, Leading, and Succeeding. We reached Jonathan Stanley in Duryea, Pennsylvania.

NK: Jonathan, at last check, how are book sales going?

JONATHAN STANLEY: You know, it's been amazing. It's a best-seller in all of the Amazon categories I'm in, and it continues to be there.

NK: Not a bad Tuesday then.

JS: Not a bad Tuesday.

NK: You know, you've seen a lot of the comments, I'm sure. We've made the right person famous, someone wrote. Another said, protect this man. And the comments are coming from all around the world. What has this last week, forget Tuesday, what has the last week been like?

JS: It's been overwhelming. Of course, it's been hard to process, but the outpouring of love, and support, and kindness, and encouragement from every corner of the globe has been amazing. And it's just proved to me that there's still hope. And, of course, the message in my book was to bring humanity back into the workforce. And I think this proves to us that humanity, compassion, and kindness matter.

NK: You know, it can be hard to watch oneself, let alone on a video that you had no idea was being shot in a moment that, I mean, you could easily have felt really awful that that moment was being shared. Did you cringe when you saw it, or have a different reaction?

JS: I have not received that question. That's a great question. I've only watched the video twice, and my first reaction to it was I wasn't unhappy to be there. You know, I know the story angle is, you know, lonely author goes viral on TikTok. But I can share with you, I was really happy to have the opportunity to sit in that chair. I think it's a privilege to be an author, and to show up, and have the to connect with people even if it's 12.

NK: And how long had you been sitting there when Taylor and her daughter Ella approached you?

NK: You had no idea that they, I mean, you learned a lot about them in that conversation, but you didn't know that Taylor had recorded this video and was posting it, and that it was exploding. While you were writing your LinkedIn posts, something else was happening. [chuckling]

JS: Correct.

NK: So, when, did someone send you the video, or did you?

JS: So, of course, you know, you've got internet sleuthers out there, right? So, someone had tracked down my information, they emailed me, and they said, you're going viral on TikTok. I was scrolling through my email. And at the same time, my wife was marching up the stairs, and she said, you're gonna viral on TikTok. And, of course, I really didn't know what that meant. I couldn't sort of process what was happening in the moment.

NK: And she was your only TikTok follower, uh, initially. How does she feel about that not being the case, not even close anymore.

JS: It's been overwhelming for her, too. And she's been incredibly supportive. And, you know, as we sort of move through this journey, it's been a week. We're just so deeply grateful and moved by the outpouring of love and support. The most gratifying thing for me is the messages I'm receiving from people who have read the book, and said that it's changed their perspective, that they're motivated and inspired to make a difference in the world. And that is the most gratifying part because I do want to share the message that it's important that kindness be shared, that we don't lose our humanity. And so many people are feeling discouraged, they're feeling unseen, and unheard, and undervalued. And everyone deserves a voice.

NK: you had felt, you had experienced a lot of change in your life and difficulties as well at that stage. And when you sat down to write write this book.

JS: You're right. I mean, my position was eliminated. And so, I went through this sort of wave of depression, like so many other people do when they lose their jobs. But, you know, I had to make a choice, and I had get out of this funk. And so, I made the choice to share my story. And again, my whole premise of sitting down and writing that book was, you now, I had a hope, and that hope was to change someone's life.

NK: Have you spoken to Taylor and Ella since all of this exploded?

JS: Yes, we're in contact almost every day. I was with her yesterday, we did an interview with Inside Edition, but we had our reunion earlier in the week, and we gave each other a big hug, and I got to hug Ella, and it was a really special moment.

NK: I'm really glad we could speak, Jonathan. Thank you.

JS: Thank you so much.

CH: Author Jonathan Stanley in Duryea, Pennsylvania.

[R&B]

Leicester Square Buskers

CH: First day of your new job in London, England. Best part: it's right next to Leicester Square -- so when you go outside to eat your lunch, you're serenaded by a busker.

SOUNDCLIP

[a busker performs Brown Eyed Girl by Van Morrison]

CH: Ah, that old busker classic, "Brown Eyed Girl". And the next day during lunch, another fun live performance.

SOUNDCLIP

[a busker performs Brown Eyed Girl by Van Morrison]

CH: Sure are a lot of buskers in Leicester Square! They're out there every day, singing their hearts out while you're just trying to eat a sandwich.

SOUNDCLIP

[a busker performs Brown Eyed Girl by Van Morrison]

CH: Do you remember when people used to sing that? You can't forget it -- they never stop singing it!

SOUNDCLIP

[a bunch of buskers performs Brown Eyed Girl by Van Morrison]

CH: That's about as abruptly as people who live and work near Leicester Square would like the busking to stop. The media company Global Radio took the local council to court over the constant, repetitive racket. Staff testified that it was so loud they could barely talk to each other inside the office. Neighbours testified that it keeps their kids awake, and makes it impossible to open the windows. Now, busking is to be expected in Leicester Square. The problem is the quality. In his ruling, the judge said, "The volume is the principal mischief, [but] it is clear that the nuisance is exacerbated by the repetition and poor quality of some of the performances." He added that loud repetitive sounds are, quote, "a well-publicized feature of unlawful but effective psychological torture techniques." Unquote. The judge has ordered Westminster Council to improve the situation -- possibly by improving the buskers. Because up to this point, council has failed to respond to complaints in any effective way. Which feels -- appropriately, but unfortunately -- tone-deaf.

[hip-hop]

Part 2: U.S. Researchers, Man Of The Match Eggs

U.S. Researchers

Guest: Steven Woolf

CH: Today, employees at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services waited in line to find out if they still had jobs. The Trump administration has laid off thousands of workers, as it implements an extremely broad reorganization of the department. It's the latest in a series of government actions that are upending the lives of American researchers -- funding cuts, firings, and new conditions on scientific study. And now, hundreds of scientists are speaking out. This week, nearly 2,000 researchers signed an open letter sounding the alarm over what they're calling a, quote, "wholesale assault on U.S. science.” Unquote. Dr. Steven Woolf is a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University, and one of the authors of the letter. We reached him in Fairfax, Virginia.

NK: Dr. Woolf, you and your colleagues have talked about a, quote, climate of fear right now. That you see real danger in this moment, as you put it. What is at stake right now in your view?

STEVEN WOOLF: Well, the issue that we're dealing with here is that the Trump administration's policies have been markedly degrading the functions of our government, different agencies. But the area that concerns us as scientists is that there is a, basically, destruction of a lot of the research capacity, not only within the federal government but at universities and research centres around the country. The United States has invested for about 80 years in building up its research capacity. And that's enabled the U.S. research enterprise to make great discoveries in cutting-edge medical treatments. Within weeks, the Trump administration has basically incapacitated a lot of those functions.

NK: And I think it's fair to say that many, if not most, Americans, regardless of their politics, the kinds of things you're describing, innovation, investment, setting a standard for the world, are the kinds that Americans would pride themselves on. So, what is it like to see that shift?

SW: Yeah, the problem is getting the American public to connect the dots. Many of them view this as some sort of bureaucratic reshuffling, some downsizing of employees in the federal government. And one of the reasons why we put out this statement to the American public is to help to raise awareness about how severely this will impact their lives. We explain that research is important for the economy, for businesses in terms of innovation, uh, weather forecasting, protecting the environment, even national security in terms of the military or, uh, intelligence gathering. But as a physician, what, what I and my colleagues are most concerned about is how this will affect the health of Americans. Part of our goal is to try to help the average American understand that if they have a heart attack, or their child is diagnosed with cancer, they're less likely to be getting cutting-edge treatments that will be available in other countries that are prioritizing research.

NK: And it's early, I know, in terms of response, but have you heard a response or reaction that leads you to believe those dots are being connected? That people are getting this message?

SW: Well, it's a heavily polarized country right now. So, when people like myself raise concerns about the direction the Trump administration is taking, there is a large sector of the population that is not happy with those kinds of comments. But on the other side, there is a large sector of Americans who appreciate the fact that somebody is actually speaking out. There is a climate of fear in a lot of these research institutions and universities where the leadership are in a very difficult place, and are not speaking out, trying to keep their heads down and avoid displeasing the administration because the government is placing a lot financial and legal pressure on universities and other research institutions. So, as a result, there's been a relative silence. Many of our professional organizations have not pushed back and spoken publicly about this. We reached out because we, as scientists, feel that the American public needs to know about what's happening, and also how this will affect their health.

NK: We're also hearing today, we're seeing mass layoffs at the Department of Health and Human Services. What are you hearing from your colleagues about what is happening there?

SW: The layoffs that are occurring today are apocalyptic in our field. These are major agencies that are responsible for the health of Americans. And large amounts of workers who have spent their careers trying to improve the health of Americans are being sent packing. We have an agency, for example, called the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality -- or AHRQ -- that is basically responsible for addressing the quality of health care in the United States. That agency has basically been clobbered, uh, and a large portion of the employees of that agency have been dismissed

NK: There are those -- and you hinted at this earlier in our conversation, doctor -- that, who would say, you know, that there's bloated bureaucracy, these things need to be trimmed back, and they think that the amount given to research has been too much over the years. What would you want to say to them?

SW: Well, I think there is a fair argument that there are inefficiencies in many of these agencies. But the way you address inefficiencies is a much more targeted approach. My analogy is if you have a car engine that's running inefficiently, you normally take it to a mechanic for a tune-up. In this case, what's happening is they're taking a sledgehammer and clobbering the engine, which does nothing to improve efficiency, and now the car doesn't work anymore. Uh, that's essentially what happened. There's, there's been very little attempt to actually improve the efficiency of these agencies. Instead, what's been done is simply to dramatically downsize them. Uh, and, and have made them basically, uh, dysfunctional. I think it's important for listeners to understand that there's two pieces to this. One is that these massive cuts are turning off the spigot for research But the second part is the censorship. This is where the government is imposing ideological and political agendas to interfere with what research questions scientists can investigate, what methods they can use for doing their studies, and how they’re, literally the words they can used in reporting the results. So, the very important principle of scientific independence that researchers across the world value is being threatened in this case.

NK: And here in Canada, we've certainly seen, just in the past week, stories about professors and researchers leaving the United States for Canada. Are you expecting that more of your colleagues will leave your country for ours?

SW: I think so. I think it's happening very rapidly. I personally know colleagues that are doing this. It's true for experienced researchers who are feeling the need to leave the country in order to continue to do independent scientific research. But it's also happening for our young people who are interested in a career in the sciences, uh, that are changing their minds about going to graduate school in the united states and looking elsewhere for their education. Uh, not least because the number of openings for graduate studies is decreasing as a result of these massive funding cuts

NK: Dr. Woolf, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

SW: Thank you for your attention to this.

CH: Dr. Steven Woolf is a professor of family medicine and population health at Virginia Commonwealth University. We reached him in Fairfax, Virginia.

[indie rock]

Carney Chiang Update

CH: Paul Chiang is out. Just after midnight -- and mere hours after the RCMP told CBC News they were looking into whether he’d broken the law -- Mr. Chiang announced that he was dropping out of the race. The Liberal candidate had been under fire for suggesting that people should try to claim a bounty that China put on Conservative candidate and democracy advocate Joe Tay. Mr. Tay was calling on the Liberals to fire Mr. Chiang, which Mark Carney refused to do. Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre pointed out Mr. Carney's reluctance in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: Just yesterday, we saw those conflicts play out when he refused to remove Paul Chiang, a man, a Liberal candidate who had said that a Canadian Conservative candidate should be turned over on a bounty to the Chinese government that wants to imprison or possibly even kill him because he is a political dissident. Mr. Carney said that Mr. Chiang could stay on as a candidate. It wasn't until midnight -- when we found out the police were involved because it a potential criminal offense -- that the candidate step aside himself, not being pushed out by Carney, but because he decided on his own. Mr. Carney will never put our country first, he will always put himself first. And that is the choice in this election.

CH: Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre, speaking in St. John's. The Conservatives have taken a different approach to candidates under fire. They've dropped two today: on social media, Stefan Marquis from Quebec said he was told he can no longer be a candidate, due to his tweets -- which include far-right conspiracies. And after CTV asked the party about Windsor, Ontario candidate Mark McKenzie joking on a podcast that former prime minister Justin Trudeau should get the death penalty, the party gave him the boot. Mr. Poilievre didn't get a question about that, but Liberal Leader Mark Carney did.

SOUNDCLIP

OLIVIA STEFANOVICH: It appears the involvement of the RCMP forced candidate Paul Chiang to bow out of the race. Meanwhile, the Conservatives just removed their problematic candidate in Windsor within an hour of learning of issues of this individual. Why didn't you do the same with Chiang? And was this a teachable moment for you?

MARK CARNEY: Mr. Chiang made his resignation, offered his resignation last night. I accepted it. As I said yesterday, his comments were deeply troubling and regrettable. We will move on with looking for a new candidate for Markham. I'll leave it at that.

CH: Liberal Leader Mark Carney answering a question from the CBC's Olivia Stefanovich during a campaign stop in Winnipeg today.

[hip-hop]

Man Of The Match Eggs

Guest: Bjørn Hagerup Røken

CH: You've just put in a brilliant performance as goalkeeper for your soccer team, making save after save, leaping and diving, punching and grabbing. So superhuman is your performance that at the end of the game, you learn that you’ve been named "Man of the Match". This is a major thrill. What will you get? Champagne? A trophy? Money? A trophy filled with money and champagne? Wait, here come the people with your prize now! And it's...four dozen eggs. Goalie Jan De Boer -- who plays for Bryne FK in Norway's top soccer division -- received those eggs of honour this week, when he was named Man of the Match. In the photograph, he looks somewhat -- unsure about the 48 rewards he's holding. Bjørn Hagerup Røken is the media manager for Bryne FK. We reached him in Bryne, Norway.

NK: Bjørn, why eggs?

BJØRN HAGERUP RØKEN: Oh, it was our way of showing our support to the local farmers, and doing something differently that no other football club in the world does.

NK: Looking at...go ahead.

BHR: It's a way to think a little bit differently.

NK: A way to think a little bit differently. I'm looking at the photograph of your goalkeeper, Jan De Boer. He does not look thrilled about it.

BHR: Of course, he was disappointed for the loss. But also, I think, a little bit surprised by the prize for the best player on the pitch. So, that was a great part of it to see his reaction when he got the four trays of egg.

NK: Do you know what he's done with them since?

BHR: Yeah, he shared them with his teammates, with one of the other players that also had a really good match, and he also made some eggs for them today at lunch.

NK: Good. The eggs were not wasted because, as you know, uh, eggs are not cheap. I don't know in Norway, but in Canada -- and certainly, the united states eggs -- are a hot commodity

BHR: Yeah, it was a good timing for us. So, we heard about the egg prices in North America. So, it was not a political stunt from our side. But it was really an expensive prize in your eyes, I can understand.

NK: Yes, it's right up there, not too far from champagne, honestly, depending on which eggs or which champagne you get. Is this, though, ultimately PR or branding for the agriculture industry there? Is this a form of sponsored content?

BHR: Yeah, kind of. A lot of our supporters are farmers, so this is our way to support them back and lift their products. Yeah, so, it's been easy to contact other local farmers to get prizes for the next matches.

NK: So yeah, just to be clear, are they, are they, you know, when I say sponsored content, like is this, is this paid branding for them? Or is this just you reaching out to them?

BHR: It's more like a collaboration and a publicity stunt. So, it's an authentic thing we're doing here, so I think that's what makes it so strong.

NK: Authentic to the community, as you've said. The community aspect in the seating or access to tickets is part of this as well. Uh, you know, VIP boxes are, are common at stadiums, certainly. Your VIP seats involve tractors.

BHR: Yeah, we have kind of a drive-in tractor seating, so you drive your tractor to the match, and you can watch the match from the tractor, or from the shovel in front of the tractor. And some supporters even put a sofa in the front that they sit in during the game.

NK: How much do those seats cost?

BHR: They were actually really, really cheap, around 250 Norwegian kroners to park the tractor. And then, you also get four tickets for the game so that you can have three of your friends with you in the tractor when you see the game.

NK: Right. Well, what's a game without friends, right? How did the players feel about this though, Bjørn? I mean, I know they weren't happy about, about the loss, uh, that we were just talking about, I bet, I mean do they just wish they could focus on playing?

BHR: Yeah, I think they're happy with the publicity it gets. And also, I think they really like the prize. And they're also really excited to see what's next, what's the prize for the next game.

NK: Yeah, I'm going to ask you about that as well. But we should mention, it's these kinds of stunts, or partnerships, collaborations as you put it, are not completely without precedent in the leagues; ESPN was reporting on some examples. In January of 2018, the captain of the Mammalodi Sundowns won a giant novelty sim to take home. I'm sure he loved that. And got free, five free gigs of mobile data. Pizza for another player, another midfielder, a while back also in 2018. So, this kind of thing happens from time to time, but what is next? What do you, how do you top four trays of eggs?

BHR: No, we were actually joking about one of the next prizes could be a driving license for a tractor. But for the next match, it's actually going to be 10 bottles of farm milk from a local farm quite close to the stadium.

NK: All right. More local products. We're certainly talking a lot about that -- buying local -- in Canada these days also. But who came up with this idea? Why focus on this industry right now? What was going on that you thought this would be the best collaboration and connection?

BHR: The club and the region is a great farming region of agriculture with a lot of farmers. We had a strategy in the club to be close to the farming industry, and to connect the brand of the club with the farming culture of the region.

NK: And how did that strategy start? What were the collaborations before?

BHR: One of our supporter chants is, the supporters are singing we are farmers and we're proud of it. So, it's a great deal, a part of the local culture in the supporters. It's a small club. And many years ago, a lot of the players actually were farmers on the side of playing football. But now, of course, with the professionalism in the sport, none of them work besides the football. But in our history, a lot of farmers played football for our club.

NK: And they won back then.

BHR: Yeah, they were really good back then, really strong players.

NK: And so, you're hoping first that some of their skill and good luck will rub off?

BHR: Yeah, hopefully. And now, the only farmer in the team is Jan de Boer, the keeper. Because his last name actually means farmer in Dutch, so he fits right in the club.

NK: Yes. Bjørn, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

BHR: Yeah, thank you.

CH: That was Bjørn Hagerup Røken, the media manager for the Norwegian soccer team Bryne FK. He's in Bryne, Norway.

[winding instrumental]

Montreal Pizza

CH: Chefs can spend decades perfecting their signature dishes. Just ask Mirko D'Agata. The Montreal chef has spent the better part of his life working on pizza. And now, that hard work has paid off. Mr. D'Agata has just taken home first place at the International Pizza Challenge in Las Vegas. He won in the Neapolitan category, for his simple yet elegant marinara pizza -- with a sauce made of just tomatoes, garlic, oregano, and olive oil.

SOUNDCLIP

MIRKO D'AGATA: It's a dream since I started making Neapolitan pizza. I started 14 years old. I'm 40 now, and --

SABRINA MARANDOLA: It's been a while. [chuckling].

MD: It's been a while. And I had many, many good, really good position, always in the Top 10, but I was missing the first place. And winning in Las Vegas in front of all my team and all, plenty of people straight directly from Naples to compete with us is absolutely wonderful.

SM: What's the feeling?

MD: I'm starting to understand what's happening. [both laugh]

SM: Yeah, you haven't absorbed it yet, right?

MD: Yeah, but the feeling was incredible. I know a lot of people in Las Vegas for this competition, so a lot people were really happy for me, for the winning. I'm happy also because we're bringing that to Montreal, to Quebec, just to let them understand everybody in the world that we can do Pizza Napoletana everywhere, and really good.

SM: How did you find out that you won? What was that moment like? Like, does your name come up on a board? How does it happen?

MD: On Wednesday, we did the preliminary competition, and 125 pizzaioli, only Margherita and Marinara. You do not have any margin of error, you don't have cheese.

SM: There's nothing to hide behind because it's just the sauce and the dough.

MD: Yes. So you really need to have a perfect dough, cook it properly for the right amount of time. So Wednesday, we did the preliminary competition. And then, the five first place, they access to the final on Thursday morning, 8. So, it's changed a lot because it's completely different timing. So, you have to adjust your timing of proofing, everything. So, I didn't sleep between Wednesday and Thursday, that's for sure, maybe two hours, maybe. And on Thursday morning, we did the final competition. And after a couple of hours, they let us know which one was the third, the second, and then they announced the number 76, and it was me. [chuckling].

SM: And what did you think? I saw pictures of you being held up by your team. [laughing]

MD: I start jumping around, hugging people. I probably hug everybody around me, don't even know if I know them or not, but it doesn't matter.

SM: They got a hug anyway. Are you going to remember that number, 76?

MD: Oh yes, I think it's probably going to be on my skin soon.

SM: Oh, a tattoo coming up?

MD: Yes, maybe. [SM chuckles]

CH: Mirko D'Agata is the executive chef at Pizzeria No.900 and Morso in Montreal. He was talking to Sabrina Marandola, host of Let's Go.

[pop rock]

Part 3: Carbon Tax Ends, Immigration Care Workers

Cory Booker Senate Speech

CH: Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey talked through the night, into the day. And he just kept talking that talk as a way of walking the walk. It's not technically a filibuster, but Senator Booker did start speaking on the floor of the U.S. Senate at 7 last night, vowing to talk "for as long as [he was] physically able. That's allowed under Senate rules. And he began that marathon speech in order to, quote, "uplift the stories of Americans who are being harmed by the Trump administration's reckless actions, attempts to undermine our institutions, and disregard the rule of law," unquote. Here's a brief excerpt from some his remarks last night.

SOUNDCLIP

CORY BOOKER: Tonight, I rise with the intention of getting in some good trouble. I rise with the intention of disrupting the normal business of the United States Senate for as long as I am physically able. I rise tonight because I believe sincerely that our country is in crisis. And I believe that not in a partisan sense because so many of the people that have been reaching out to my office, in pain, in fear, having their lives upended. So many of them identify themselves as Republicans. And institutions which are special in America are being recklessly, and I would say even unconstitutionally affected, even shattered. These are not normal times in America, and they should not be treated as such. I can't allow this body to continue without doing something different, speaking out. Because I believe generations from now, we'll look back at this moment and have a single question, where were you when our country was in crisis, and when American people were asking for help, help me? When our seniors became afraid, and worried, and panicked because of the menacing words of their president, of the most wealthy person in the world, of cabinet secretaries, did we speak up? When the American economy, in 71 days -- 71 days -- has been upended. When prices at the grocery store were skyrocketing and the stock market was plunging, when pension funds, 401Ks were going down, when Americans were hurting and looking up, where the resounding answer to this question was no. Are you better off economically than you were 71 days ago? Where were you?

CH: Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, as he started his marathon speech in the U.S. Senate last night.

[winding instrumental]

Carbon Tax Ends

Guest: Mark Jaccard

CH: Today, after sustained criticism, and a particularly effective rhyming slogan, the federal consumer carbon tax succumbed. It was six years old. Its demise followed many months of calls by Conservative Leader Pierre Poilieve to, quote, "axe the tax." And on his first day as prime minister, Liberal Leader Mark Carney did just that. That means no more added charges on fuel and -- after April 15th -- no more tax rebates. For years, economist Mark Jaccard has been cautioning elected leaders about how politically toxic carbon taxes can be -- and trying to convince them they don't actually need those taxes to fight climate change. He's on leave from Simon Fraser University -- and is currently leading the B.C. Utilities Commission. We reached him in Vancouver, B.C.

NK: Mark, you've long talked about the political inviability -- as you see it, and as others see it -- of a carbon tax. You were on our show back in 2008 talking about that very thing, in fact. Today, though, is this the final nail in the coffin -- at least for the consumer carbon tax?

MARK JACCARD: That's a good question. I can't say that. So yes, I've never been an opponent of the carbon tax. I've simply warned climate-sincere politicians that a carbon tax, what I've learned from political scientists and policy analysts is that a carbon tax is very difficult to do. It can be an easy target. And then, it would be really a pity if we lose opportunities to have policies that reduce greenhouse gas emissions because we pick a policy that is very vulnerable to political attack.

NK: And when did you first realize that it could be a hard sell, politically?

MJ: Yeah, I think I was first writing about this in the early 1990s. And I was just pointing out because I was learning from experiences elsewhere in the world, I was on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which I've been on again, and so comparing with climate policy experts, fellow economists around the world. And so, there's been evidence of this for a very long time.

NK: Why is it politically a hard sell, knowing what you know and working with all of those groups? Because as you also know, there are many, many economists, political leaders, and those who are concerned about the environment, not just environmentalists themselves, who say putting a price on carbon is essential.

MJ: Right. And I believe that if one could do this and win re-election, then it would be a very good policy because it is the most economically efficient. So, it costs your society the least per unit of greenhouse gas reduction to achieve your environmental goals, and that leaves more money for education, healthcare, housing, you name it. But it is incorrect, and unfortunately, some economists misled people by saying it was essential. It's their preference because economists like me are trained to care about economic efficiency and doing things at the least cost. But in fact, we can have policies that are regulations, they're quite flexible, that will actually reduce emissions significantly, and can get you all the way to zero in individual sectors like transportation, electricity generation, industrial output, and so on.

NK: Enforcing those regulations, though, policing those regulations, does that not get tricky and difficult, and more costly ultimately, for governments?

MJ: Well, what's really costly is if we don't reduce greenhouse gas emissions, first of all. And so, if we're doing policies that keep failing politically, and then sort of say, oh well, I guess we'll just go along with the politicians who don't want to do anything, the costs to society are enormous. And I would also say all climate policies are difficult. And the reason is that it actually is cheaper usually to burn a fossil fuel, to burn gasoline, or diesel, or natural gas in a home or an industry. Fossil fuels are quite wonderful, and that's why humanity is having so much trouble. So, the regulations, too, are difficult, but the evidence is very clear by experts from around the world that while they're difficult, they're not nearly as difficult as carbon taxes. And so, the way you design the regulations, where we've been successful, is you give a lot of flexibility. You don't say that every manufacturer has to sell X per cent of cars that are electric. Or x per cent of electricity is from renewables. What you do instead is you say, well, some companies will do better than others. We'll let them trade. So that those who find it cheaper will do more, and those who find expensive will do less, but society will achieve its objective. Basically, you're trying to make regulations that replicate much of the flexibility of carbon pricing.

CH: In 1995, brothers Chris and Dave Pancoe took a two-month-long canoe trip, deep into northern Manitoba. Their destination: Panco Lake, near Hudson Bay. Which is named for a relative of theirs who died in the Second World War. It was a journey of nearly 800 kilometres. And ever since they completed it, they talked a lot about making the trip again. Now, 30 years later, the brothers Pancoe headed back to the lake that bears their name.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS PANCOE: This time we didn't take canoes, we went by fat bikes. And we had a skidoo as a sort of a support vehicle. And we trekked out there by fat bike.

MARCY MARKUSA: What was it like, Dave, to be doing this? I mean, remind us how remote Panko Lake is, and what this was like.

DAVE PANCOE: Yeah, it was super fun. Like, we had a, basically, a bespoke fat bike trail going through the Hudson Bay lowlands. And it was just gorgeous. The outfiter, we actually had hired Nelson River Adventures to pack a trail for us ahead of time with the skidoo going up to Panko Lake. And, yeah, we were just blown away how nice it was. They did a great job.

MM: You guys actually were traveling with your dad. Is that right, Dave?

DP: We were, yeah. We brought some of his remains up there, his ashes, and he was a pretty goofy guy. Like, he never would have done that. But he loved the fact that we had gone before, and it was fun to bring him up, and just kind of, yeah, put some extra notes and then earn and everything. And it was, yeah, it was a fun, fun exercise.

MM: What would both of you say about the value of going on an emotional journey like this? You know, something that's a little bit out there, so to speak. It's also really out there in the wilderness, But it's tied to part of your story and history, and how valuable has that been in your view, Chris?

CP: Extremely valuable. And, you know, I just, I'm really grateful that I have the capacity to be able to do that, and, and that we could all, you know, get together. And as soon, as as soon Dave pitched the idea to take fat bikes up there, there wasn't a second of hesitation between any of us. We basically just said, yeah, we're in.

CH: Chris and Dave Pancoe, talking to Marcie Marcusa on Information Radio in Winnipeg this morning.

[ambient]

Immigration Care Workers

Guest: Zeynab Ziaie Moayyed

CH: Thousands of hopeful people looking for permanent residency logged on to their computers yesterday morning, to apply for Canada's latest immigration pilot program. The Home Care Workers' program has a total of 5,500 spots available between its two streams -- one being child care, the other for home support workers. Applicants will be accepted on a first come, first served basis. These programs are replacing programs that wound down in June of last year, under then-Immigration Minister Marc Miller. And the stakes were high, so the race to submit applications was stressful already. But that stress was multiplied by glitches and slowdowns on the government's online portal. Zeynab Ziaie Moayyed was among those trying to navigate the chaos. She's an immigration lawyer. We reached her in Toronto.

NK: So, Zeynab, 10 yesterday morning, what happened when you tried to submit your client's application?

ZEYNAB ZIAIE MOAYYED: things didn't go as planned. We had spent hours preparing all the information and the documents, but, and I was actually in the system before 10 a.m. Eastern time, when the system was supposed to allow us to submit these applications. But as soon as it became 10 a.m., the system became unresponsive. So, the portal wouldn't allow us to create a new application. And eventually, kicked us out, leading to a very frustrating experience.

NK: How much preparation and stress, I would imagine, went into getting to that point where you could even try to log on at 10?

ZZM: Absolutely. While the program was announced back in June of 2024 by the Immigration Department, the details of how it was going to be rolled out, what the exact documents were only made available to applicants about two weeks ago. So, that didn't give people a lot of time. The other aspect of it is while they could prepare documents, you know, scan and ensure that they were ready to go, they couldn't fill out most of the forms until they actually logged into the system on the day of the opening. So, you could prepare some things ahead of time, but there was a lot that you had to do on the day of. So, it was an extremely stressful experience.

NK: And were you ultimately successful? I mean, how long did it take for the site to sort of recover?

ZZM: From 10 a.m. to at least 12, 12:15, it was virtually impossible. I was on a listserv with many other immigration lawyers. Everybody was experiencing the same frustration. I was also looking online on social media, and seeing that others individually across the and true experience are the same thing. But at around just past 12, I was able to get in. So, I quickly did everything that I had for the one applicant that I was assisting and was finally able to submit that application. I did get a confirmation email saying that my application had been received. But that email also states that it might still be returned if it wasn't received within their quota.

NK: So, more stress for, for your client, who you took on pro bono. But I'm sure there were many people who were trying to just navigate this by themselves and didn't have a lawyer.

ZZM: That's right, it's an extremely complicated process and made even more so because of the time pressures. The Immigration Department does state that applicants can apply by themselves, but typically when we're looking at an application, you don't have the time pressure trying to get, you know, one of 5,000 spots out of potentially thousands and thousands of applicants that are applying. So, by the end of it, all of the spots were filled up within a few hours. A normal situation, you would have days, maybe months to prepare all of your documents, review things. But in this kind of situation, even the most experienced advocates such as myself were facing this very, very challenging situation which, unfortunately, was completely predictable as well.

NK: So, even if the system was able to handle the intake at the stroke of 10 yesterday morning, you believe that there were better alternatives that could have been used. What would have been better in your view?

ZZM: The alternative, which has actually been used by IRCC and other programs, is to run a lottery. Open it up for a short period of time, maybe one week, provide advance notice. Eligible candidates can register during that period, there's no rush, there is no concern about whether people are going to be able to submit complete applications and so on. And then, run a lottery. I think that's far more fair compared to the current situation where if you were lucky enough to have found a representative who was then also lucky enough to be able to log in on the day you are able to submit an application. But everybody else who has done all the work, maybe expended funds, et cetera, is left completely without recourse because they couldn't get into those spots.

NK: And when you say that you have colleagues who are proponents of a merit-based system, in this context with the Home Care Workers Program, what would that mean?

ZZM: There have been different minimum requirements for this program over the years, and it's gone through a couple of iterations. This is the latest pilot program that we have but I think part of it would be a recognition of there are caregivers, for example in Canada, who might have more years of experience compared to someone who, at the current program that was open yesterday, only requires six months of work experience. In order to at least address this overwhelming number of applications, having a look more carefully at what the eligibility criteria are could work. And, as I said, it wouldn't necessarily be increasing the language or requiring post-secondary education, which was one version of the pilot in prior years. But I think looking more carefully at what the minimum number of years of experience could be could help alleviate this and also give an opportunity to those who've been working here longer to have a better chance of success .

NK: And we are talking about people with families of their own, and these are not just applications and pieces of paper, obviously. So, for your client and others who you know, what does something like this mean for them and their lives here?

ZZM: It has been very difficult to watch the conversations that are happening around this. Many of the caregivers who are here are here by themselves and their family is overseas. This is a very difficult situation to be in if you're not going to receive one of the golden tickets, essentially, of applying for permanent residency. You're certainly going to be left without an option until next year.

NK: And we know that there is certainly a deep need for more personal support workers across Canada. You mentioned next year, do you see this pilot program becoming a more permanent program, and that there will be more opportunities for people who didn't get through and won't get accepted this time?

ZZM: I think we should have a permanent program. And I think the numbers should be increased. The challenge is this is the third pilot program, and we had one that was introduced in 2014, and then another one in 2019. And when that expired last year, this is a new pilot program instead of it being made a permanent program. Realistically, I don't think we're going to see a situation where there will be a pathway in the near future. But if you do ask me, should we have a higher number of spots in our immigration targets allocated for caregivers who are making such important contributions? I would answer that, yes.

NK: Zeynab, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

ZZM: Thank you very much.

CH: Zeynab Ziaie Moayyed is an immigration lawyer in Toronto. That's where we reached her.

[toy store music]

Injured Owl

CH: Last fall, Calvin Dubray was driving in the Chilcotin, in British Columbia, when he saw what he thought was a rock. But when he got closer, he saw feathers. And then, bright yellow eyes. It was an owl. And it was injured. So, Mr. Dubray he rescued it. Now, there's been a ceremony to release that owl, which has fully recovered, back into the wild. Calvin Dubray told the CBC about that ceremony this morning -- and about approaching that owl on the road last year.

SOUNDCLIP

CALVIN DUBRAY: I just talked to it calmly, like you would when you try to settle something that's in distress. And as I got closer, it didn't seem afraid of me, and I felt this kind of calm come over me. I didn't feel threatened by it at all either. I nudged it a little bit just to see if it would move, and it didn't really move much. It couldn't get up from where it was. So, I went into my truck, got some gloves and came out, and lifted it up without any struggle or challenge to me, and kept talking to it, and put it in the back of my truck. And it actually hopped into my grandson Denver's car seat. I think he just felt that I wasn't there to further harm him. I think he felt he was, you know, going to be looked after and I was trying to help, so.

SHELLEY JOYCE: Did you take him to a vet, or what did you do?

CD: Yeah, first thoughts that came to my head was the Scout Island Nature House. And so, I actually, I went there first, and it just happened so that the lady that works there, her husband is the head vet up at the animal care hospital here in Williams Lake, Dr. Dietrich. She made a phone call, I went up and saw him, and they kind of took the owl from there and did some examinations. And yeah, just credit him and his staff for taking such good care of that animal while it than his possession.

SJ: So, that happened last October you found this owl, and it was released just within the last few days. What was that experience like?

CD: It was a really beautiful ceremony. When the animal was rehabilitated, it was sent down to OWL, Orphan Wildlife Rehabilitation Society in Delta. And we'd been talking with Rob Hope and his team, just asking if we could keep updated on the owl so it could make its back to the territory and we could release it when it healed. And we were able to do that last Thursday with the beautiful ceremony. And he got out of his cage and kind of looked at me, looked at the group, looked at me again, and then he flew off. Yeah, I just felt so blessed to be part of that. You know, just my Indigenous side of my family. We're from Saskatchewan, but I'm learning a lot about ceremony, and cultural, and traditions from the Skeetum, my mentors, Freddie and Irene Johnson, and our Skeetim land guardians. Yeah, so I just felt really, really privileged to be part of that. And I was really thankful that, you know, there's about 30, 35 people out there that came from Williams Lake and from Muscatum to be a part of the ceremony. So, I just want to, yeah, it was just great. It was a great day.

CH: Calvin Dubray talking to Shelley Joyce, host of Daybreak Kamloops, about the owl he rescued.

The AIH Transcript For April 1, 2025

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