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The AIH transcript for April 18, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

DAVE SEGLINS: Hello, I'm Dave Seglins, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

TS: Tonight:

DS: Debate and switch. As early voting kicks off, we dive into whether Pierre Poilievre's performance at last night's debate can help the Conservatives regain lost ground.

TS: Healing on hold. Five years after the Nova Scotia mass shooting that left 22 dead, a trauma therapist who pushed for reform says change is happening -- but not fast enough.

DS: Waste sight story. Residents of Birmingham, England are stuck with piles of uncollected trash as their garbage strike drags into week five - with no refuge from the refuse in sight.

TS: Repeat after me. A Parkland survivor reflects on living through her second school shooting, after yesterday's attack at Florida State University.

DS: 51,000 tiny flags. One powerful message. We hear from a city councilman-slash-artist in British Columbia who created a field of miniature flags to honor each life lost to the opioid crisis.

TS: And…The King’s court. We hear from an Australian tennis club trying to re-popularize Real Tennis - the game popularized by Henry the 8th.

TS: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that makes a royal racket.

[theme]

Part 1: Post-Debate Conservative, Birmingham Garbage Strike, Old Tennis

Post-Debate Conservative

Guest: Regan Watts

TS: Across the country, Canadians have officially started casting ballots in advance polls. And at last night's debate, leaders had one of their last chances to speak directly to voters -- and get a few swings in at their opponents.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: The question you have to ask is after a decade of Liberal promises, can you afford food? Is your housing more affordable than it used to be? What is your cost of living like compared to what it was a decade ago? And are you prepared to elect the same Liberal MPs, the same Liberal ministers, the same Liberal staffers all over again for a fourth term? Mr. Carney, Justin Trudeau's staffers are actually here with you at this debate in Montreal, writing the talking points that you are regurgitating into the microphone. How can we possibly believe that you're any different than the previous 10 years of liberal government?

STEVE PAIKIN: Twenty-five seconds left in this segment for you to respond to that.

MARK CARNEY: I do my own talking points, thank you very much.

TS: Liberal leader Mark Carney and Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre, at last night's debate. As we head into the long weekend, polls show the Liberals holding a slim but persistent lead over Mr. Poilievre's Conservatives...who now have just over a week before election day to reverse that trend. Regan Watts was a senior aide to Conservative finance minister, Jim Flaherty. We reached Mr. Watts in Toronto.

DS: Mr. Watts, do you think last night was enough to sway any undecided voters towards Mr. Poilievre.

REGAN WATTS: If I was to give a letter grade to both Mr. Carney and Mr. Poilievre, I would say Mr. Polievre was an A and Mr Carney was a B plus. I thought Mr.Poilievre gave the performance of his life. I thought that Mr.poilievre connected with Canadians who were worried about President Trump, and those who are also feeling the pain of the last 10 years of lost opportunity and being left behind. Having said that, I also thought Mr Carney acquitted himself okay as well. And look, Mr. Carney is not the Marquis of Queensbury. You know, and polling has indicated that while Canadians had high expectations of Mr. Carney going into the debate, while he didn't meet them entirely, I think he didn't fall too short either. I know Mr. Carney. I worked with him at the Department of Finance. He sounds in public just as he does in private, and I've worked with them and I've seen that up close. And he sounded like the technocrat that he is. And I thought he demonstrated at times, not at all times, but at times that he was in charge. But to your question about whether Mr. Poilievre addressed voters and attracted voters who were either undecided or leaning one way or the other. You know, I thought the most interesting points of the debate really surrounded the record of the Liberal government over the last 10 years. For me, the most profound exchange during the debate was around crime and victims of crime. I thought Mr. Poilievre's exchange on crime in particular was his second-best moment of the night, second only to his ending where he talked about meeting supporters on the campaign trail and got choked up.

DS: Well, I want to, I wanna jump to that, actually, because we heard a decisively different tone from Mr. Poilievre who's been characterized as a bit of an attack dog on the campaign trail and through his career. But when he was asked about whether he had any regrets, let's listen to his answer.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: I had a rule that at all my rallies, even when they're really big, I would stand in front of a flag and greet every single person, and hear their stories and learn their struggles. And that was always touching to me that they would put their faith in me or in any of us. But we've been in such a rush because we have to get off to the next event. So, we haven't been able to stop and do that. And I want you to know out there, I haven't forgot about you.

DS: What do you think is going on there with his tonal shift?

RW: You know, Mr. Poilievre is a father of two, one of whom is a six-year-old girl who's nonverbal. Mr. Poilievre plays the role of a politician, and it has been his life's work. But you know, the moment last night, the debate on Thursday and the debate on Wednesday, was the culmination of his life working in his desire and ambition to become prime minister of the country. And I think in a moment like that, you saw some real humanity. I will say, I do Mr. Poilievre, as I know Mr. Carney. You see the humanity with Mr. Poilievre in private. Those of us who know him and admire Mr. Poilievre wish he would show more of that and have shown more of that over the course of the last six months or the course of the campaign. But I don't think it's so much a tonal shift as, you know, it's at this point in the campaign where voters are kicking tires and they really want to know who you are.

DS: Well, that's in private, but for the bulk of voters who've seen him, you know, with his slogans and attacking and tearing down Mr. Trudeau, is this shift and this showing of the private side of Pierre Poilievre too late in this campaign?

RW: Well, there's a lot of ball game to play. If this were a hockey game, I would say the Liberals went into the third period leading 3-1. And last night, being the start of the third period, the Conservatives were able to get a quick goal in the first two minutes of the 3rd. So, we've got a 3-2 hockey game. There's lots of games left to play. You know, this is Easter, and I want to wish your listeners a happy Easter. I remember when Mr. Harper ran his election in 2008. And Thanksgiving weekend was one of the weekends during that campaign. Voters, you saw a shift of votes in that campaign over that weekend that broke decidedly for the Conservative Party then. And so, I think the timing of Mr. Poliev's authenticity is fortuitous for him for sure. We'll know, I think, early next week when polling comes out whether it was too little too late or the timing was right. But I do think there's lots of ball game left or lots of hockey left. And I think there is still time for the Conservative Party to remind voters that if you want change, if you don't like the last 10 years, that they have an option. And that, you know, for them, or for those voters who think we need more of a change than just the top of the house of the prime minister, there is only one option.

DS: As you mentioned, it's a holiday weekend, people will be gathering, families, lots of talk about the election. What do you hope people take away from this debate and what they've been hearing over the last few weeks from leaders as they make their decision?

RW: My hope as a person who watches and pays attention to politics is that I hope, like I do in every election, that voter turnout goes up. I think the trend for voter turnout over the last number of elections at the federal and provincial level at various provinces across the country is going in the wrong direction. And so, when voters talk about the debates and talk about issues that are in front of us, and President Trump and our relationship with the U.S. is but one of them, cost of living, affordability, housing, crime, immigration. There's a number of issues that we need to deal with and get the country, we need our house in order. And so, when people talk about the election and the debates, my hope is they talk about, one, getting out and voting. I think Canada has a proud record of defending itself and working with allies in world wars and in other conflicts. And I think we need to honour the sacrifice that those who came before us have made, and getting out there and voting is the most basic and honourable way of doing that, which is exercising your civic vote. And then, two, I think people in particular, generations, boomers and younger people need to talk about what is best for the long-term future of the country. I think, you know, baby boomers in particular have felt anxious towards what's the state of the world and why things are happening the way they are. And I think there's some validity to that, but talk to young people who can't buy a house, or can't get out of their parents' basement, or can get a job. And I think getting out and voting being the first and most important thing I hope to talk to about, but secondly, talking about, how do we bring the country together? Who has the plan? Who's going to get kids in houses and into jobs and help ensure that the retirements of baby boomers continue to be prosperous. And ensuring that we have the funding we need, the public funding we need, to pay for health care and education and other public services that older Canadians rely upon as they live their golden years.

DS: Mr. Watts, we'll leave it there. Thanks for joining us.

RW: My pleasure.

TS: Regan Watts was a senior aide to Conservative Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, and is the founder of the consultancy firm Fratton Park Inc. He was in Toronto.

[aquarium ambient]

Birmingham Garbage Strike

Guest: Sadia Khan

TS: Birmingham, England is drowning in trash. Bulging black garbage bags line the streets. Some have split open, spilling rotten food, and sludge -- as a garbage strike continues for its fifth week. And it appears there is no end in sight. This week, talks between the union and the city fell through after workers overwhelmingly rejected the city's latest offer -- which could see them taking an £8,000 pound, or over $14,000 Canadian dollar -- pay cut. Sadia Khan runs a community group that's been organzing litter cleanups in her neighbourhood -- and that's where we reached her in Birmingham.

DS: Sadia, we're reaching you outside your front door, I understand. Can you describe the scene? What are we looking at?

SADIA KHAN: We're looking at a pretty normal street, really. We've got our wheelie bins out waiting for collections. Luckily today, we've had a collection on time and on the usual day that we're expecting. There have been some extra bags left by residents on the side of the bins which have been taken this morning, so we're quite pleased.

DS: But how bad has it been? I understand that this, you know, it's good that they came today, but there's been trash piling up.

SK: Oh yes, we've seen the complete opposite. There were piles as high as your car. I would say even higher than that in certain areas where people have started making trash dumps and piling up with fly-tipping and commercial waste on top of that. It's just litter attracting more litter. And as the weather was getting warmer in the last few weeks, we felt quite sickened by the smells and the things decaying and, obviously, food waste and things. You could smell a very pungent smell when you walked past these areas and the piles and the rubbish in the street were so bad, they were blocking the paths.

DS: I'm sorry to hear that. That must be terrible to live next to. I understand that this is not the first garbage strike in Birmingham, that in 2017, there was one that lasted for seven weeks during the summer. How did that compare to what you're seeing now?

SK: We had the same kind of effect, but the knock-on effect now is that the people are fed up and the bin strikers are getting a lot of sympathy as well, that they're not only asking for the same wage, there's no increased demands or the wage that they expect.

DS: Let's tell our listeners a little bit about the issues at stake. There's about 150 workers that have had their pay slashed by up to 8,000 pounds a year. What are people in the city making of their prospects versus this inconvenience and having to live with all of this garbage?

SK: People in Birmingham are quite working class. They're industrialists. It's a city that works hard. It's like the Peaky Blinders. We all get together and support our workers. And trade unions are there for a reason to protect workers rights. So, that kind of feeling in the city has always been there. And the thing is that the cost of living is going up with inflation and people cannot afford to lose 8,000 pounds in their wage. And that's equivalent of your mortgage payment. If you can't keep up your mortgage, and you lose your homes. So, people are supportive of the fact that the workers have a right to keeping on the same wage and not having to lose that.

DS: Some residents are saying though that this is escalating to the point of a public health issue. What are you seeing on that front?

SK: You can see while it was getting warmer people's trash bags were being invaded by mice and rats and then rats attract more blow flies and maggots and cockroaches. Those kind of things are on the rise as it gets warmer and people are finding more rodent infestations in homes and in commercial businesses too. There's been health inspectors closing down certain people's restaurants, take aways, and shops.

DS: It's interesting you raise this issue of rodents because I understand that the mayor of West's Midlands, Richard Parker, told the BBC that he's never actually seen a rat, or suggests that these sightings have been exaggerated. Let's have a little listen to what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

RICHARD PARKER: No one I know has seen one. For most people looking at this, the only time they've seen one is when someone's flashed a screenshot or a picture on the front of a newspaper. And I do think some of the media reporting of this is being irresponsible.

HOST: How interesting. Do you not think there are rats attracted by the rubbish?

RP: I think it's inevitable that they will be. All I'm saying is I think the position is probably being exaggerated.

DS: He also went on to say that he's sympathetic about the impact of the strike, but what goes through your mind when you hear his response?

SK: I'm sure he doesn't actually live in the inner city, he lives in a lovely suburban place, countryside outside of the city probably. Because if he actually walked around and looked at the inner neighbourhoods where there are these crowded areas, you've got lots of flats and accommodation, multi-occupancy housing, there are a lot more rubbish and trash piles on those corners, especially where Rye Park is, there is a, it's called the Balti Triangle, so you're in the middle of quite a lot of food commercial places where they're all curry houses and multicultural as well. You have a lot different diverse ethnic groups living there. And you can see if you go into the parks there are signs of infestation and rats and mice. And they also introduced a rat tax which shows that they have to hire extra pest control just to control these. So, it's obvious they're having requests for pest control.

DS: I understand Birmingham's council declared this, quote, a major incident last month and has increased resources to take away tonnes of garbage. Good news that it's gone from your street today, but do you feel that local leaders and council are doing enough to address this?

SK: Not at all. I think a lot faster action should have been taken, especially when it's such a public health concern. You have children who are playing in the parks. And it's the Easter bank holiday weekend now when we have a lot of children on holidays from schools and they're playing outdoors in the lovely weather. And you think they're actually exposing themselves to these kind of infections that can be transmitted from rats. And it can be very harmful for people's health and especially anybody who's vulnerable and has low-immune system already. So, it's very important to address these issues quickly when you have a population of 1.2 million in the city and you're the largest borough in the whole of Europe and you thought that there would be a lot more immediate action taking place.

DS: Sadia, I hope things sort themselves out soon.

SK: Thank you. Thank you very much. I hope so, too.

TS: We reached Sadia Khan at her home in Birmingham, England.

[winding instrumental]

Old Tennis

Guest: Chris Cooper

TS: Right now, the pros of the tennis circuit are battling it out during the game's ferocious clay court season. But what the world's top players may not know is that they're not actually playing real tennis. At least, not according to the devotees of Real Tennis -- capital R, capital T -- which is also known as royal tennis. We're talking about the kind of game that Henry the Eighth might have played. Now, a new club has opened in Sydney, Australia, and an inaugural tournament is in full swing. Chris Cooper is the secretary of the Sydney Real Tennis Club in Sydney -- and that's where we reached him.

DS: Chris, how is the tournament going so far?

CHRIS COOPER: It's going very well. We've got about 200 people who have come to join us in Sydney to celebrate the opening of our new court and we've got wall-to-wall matches going on each day.

DS: And I understand you're not just an observer, you are a competitor. So how are you faring?

CC: I am, indeed. I'm playing again this morning, I've had a few matches so far, there's been some wins and some losses but I'm still in.

DS: Well, good for you. Now, for those of us who don't understand Real Tennis, how does it compare to modern tennis?

CC: Okay, so Real Tennis is the original game from which the modern game has developed. And the modern game of tennis was a simplified form of the original game. Basically, it's an indoor court. It's very strange, it's a quirky-looking environment when you're in the court. And so, it's quite different to modern tennis in the sense that you play off the walls, you play off low roofs that go around three sides of court, you've got buttresses, you got galleries down the side, you have a very different environment you are in on the court. And you play with a hard ball, so the balls are all handmade, but they're solid. So, they don't bounce very much unless you hit them hard. But when you do hit them hard, they bounce quite well.

DS: So, a hard ball, handmade, what's it made of?

CC: Well, in the middle, it's made of cork. And then, you wrap cloth tape around that and string to pull it tight. And then, you cut strips of cloth that go on the outside, or felt and stitch those in. And all the balls are made at each of the clubs. So, the balls belong to the court. And the professional spends quite a lot of his time making new balls because they wear out constantly. So, they have to keep making new balls

DS: So, you need to paint us a picture, walk us through what it looks like to play a match.

CC: So, the court is, if you can imagine yourself in a monastery, in the courtyard of a monastery, you've got high walls around you and down one side you've a corridor with a roof over it. And when you're preparing to serve you actually hit up onto that low roof. It rolls along the part over the net and into play on the other side of the court. And then, the receiver will try and keep it off the roofs. The roofs are in play, but the receiver will try and get it back, obviously, and you'll start the rally from there. But the server has a big advantage because there are some spots on the receiver's side where you can hit into, which give you an advantage. So, there's one aim that most people have when they're playing the game is to try and get down the service end as quickly as possible.

DS: So, you're actually aiming for targets within the court?

CC: Yes. So, the court has a series of galleries down the side. And it has a window at the receiver's end, each of which means different things at different times. It's quite a strategic game. It takes years to actually master not only the rules but how best to use those rules to your advantage. So, you've got targets that are winning openings, so a window that you can hit the ball into, you win the point instantly. So, if you're defending that, you're trying to volley it before it goes in there. But they also have the 45 degree angle. So, on one of the walls, again, it's down the receiver's end, you've got the challenge of having to work out whether the ball is going to come off at a strange angle, rather than just a flat wall.

DS: So, I'm a lay tennis player in the modern tennis sense, but I'm struggling to picture or figure out how difficult this would be. How would a tennis pro from today do at Real Tennis on their first time out?

CC: Yeah, it takes a long time to get the hang of it, so it's one of these games, a bit like playing golf, you know, it's not something you pick up the club first up and can hit a drive 250 yards. It's a game that requires a lot of skill and practice. In fact, we have a professional at the moment who jokes that it takes two years to become hopeless at the game, [DS chuckles] and it takes years and years to master. You still count in 15s, so the original scoring is the same, and you have six game sets, but pretty much thereafter, everything else is different.

DS: What do you think the appeal is? Is it the history, the novelty of the game, something else? What do ya think?

CC: I think it's a combination. I mean, it's kind of cool playing a game that's probably 1,000 years old. So, that certainly has a novelty factor. But I think, it is more the feeling of when you hit the ball. It's an awesome feeling. It is difficult to find the sweet spot on the racket. But once you do, it an amazing feeling. It's difficult to get it right, but it's very rewarding.

DS: Well, Chris, we'll leave it there. Thank you, and good luck in your match today.

CC: Thanks, Dave!

TS: Chris Cooper is the secretary of the Sydney Real Tennis Club. We reached him in Sydney, Australia.

[chiptune]

[chillhop house tour music]

Part 2: NS Shooting Anniversary, Opioid Death Flags

NS Shooting Anniversary

Guest: Kristina Fifield

TS: Five years ago in Nova Scotia, dozens of lives were shattered by the worst mass shooting in modern Canadian history. Twenty-two people died in an attack that began with the gunman's brutal assault on his common-law wife. In 2023, a public inquiry issued more than a hundred recommendations to help prevent future tragedies. Among them were steps to combat gender-based violence across the country. But as the five-year anniversary arrives, some are warning that progress on that front is too slow -- and pointing to a spike in intimate partner violence in the province. Kristina Fifield is a trauma therapist who helped develop the recommendations. We reached her in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.

DS: Kristina, as someone who works in this field and knows some of those affected by the 2020 shootings in Nova Scotia, how are you reflecting on this anniversary?

KRISTINA FIFIELD: Yeah, this anniversary, my reflections, well, first and foremost, thinking of all the families and communities that have been impacted. But in reflections around the recommendations found in turning the tide together, just how far away we are from the change that is needed to address violence that is occurring across Canada and within communities. And we have a lot of work to do to address the epidemic of gender-based violence and intimate partner violence.

DS: Well, let's drill down on that a little bit. I mean, the commission of inquiry recommended all kinds of reforms to policing, gun control, but when it comes specifically to curbing gender-based violence, how would you describe the progress that's been made on that front?

KF: Across Canada, and in my province of Nova Scotia, we have seen an increased rate of intimate partner violence and femicides that have occurred. And I do believe that we are still not, government and different systems, are still not doing enough to address the epidemic. I believe that reform is needed within justice, policing, child protection, within government, and within mental health services. And I can't stress enough in my work and what I see in my work is how individuals that are experiencing violence are continuing to be failed by systems that are supposed to be there to protect them.

DS: This is an incredibly complex subject, but if you were to look at the recommendations, what is at the top of the list that you think we need to address?

KF: We need to work towards ensuring that violence is never normalized across all parts of society. And for that to happen, I do believe that core funding is needed to individuals working within the gender-based violence sector. And that focus needs to be shifted. And it needs to focus on prevention and early intervention work. Too often, the work that's happening across the gender-based violence sector is dealing with the crisis and individuals that are needing the support. And there's not enough focus on that early intervention and prevention work. There needs to be accountability to ensure that the epidemic of gender-based violence is being prioritized. And that there is a system of support to ensure that there's accountability at all levels of government and across society around what is needed.

DS: We know that the shooter had a long history of domestic violence. And in recent years, a number of jurisdictions across the country have declared intimate partner violence an epidemic. So, there has been some attention brought to this issue. What changes have you seen? Do you think there's a greater willingness to talk about gender-based and intimate partner violence in light of the tragedy?

KF: I do feel that over the past few years, there has been more conversations about gender-based violence. There was a lot of silence around it and people thought this was a private issue. I do think there is more conversations happening, which is good and needed. That's part of the cultural shift. I do believe, though, that there is not enough accountability.

DS: You've used the word accountability a number of times. What does that look like to you, specifically?

KF: I think accountability, for me, and in the work I do, first, government needs to acknowledge the injustices that survivors face when interacting with systems. I think accountability comes with ensuring proper funding. I think that accountability also comes with all of us turning inward within our work, within our friend groups, within our families, within the institutions and organizations we're working in, and seeing how, unpacking how, oppression and violence might be showing up and how there's no accountability in a lot of different spaces we are in. And I do believe action requires government to collaborate with survivors and families. Part of accountability for government, I believe, needs to include that collaboration in an ongoing way with individuals that have been impacted, to ensure that any policies, legislation, or practices are informed by the people that have been most impacted.

DS: This leads to the question of what progress has been made, in your view?

KF: Yeah, I do think there has been some progress around certain recommendations and turning the tide. RCMP have taken on a lot of those recommendations are working towards them. The government of Canada and government of Nova Scotia is trying to implement these recommendations. But I do, I keep going back to when we're looking at gender-based violence and intimate partner violence, not much has shifted on the ground in working with survivors in the community. And too often, survivors and victims are continuing to be victim-blamed, and this is seen across all parts of society.

DS: This fifth anniversary comes amid an election campaign that has been largely focused on Canada-U.S. Relations, the cost of living. What would you want voters to think about as they head to the ballot box when it comes to intimate partner violence?

KF: I think that people need to acknowledge how harmful intimate partner violence is and how it's impacting all parts of society. And I believe that we need to focus on this both at the federal and provincial and territorial levels. So, as people are going and casting their vote, I think it's really important that they're asking candidates about how they're going to respond to the epidemic. And this needs to be a priority. And this impacts our communities, it impacts families, it impacts children, and the rates of violence are increasing. So, this needs to be a priority to create safer communities across the country.

DS: Kristina, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for speaking with us.

KF: No problem. Thank you so much for having me on.

TS: Kristina Fifield is a trauma therapist who helped develop recommendations after the mass shooting in Nova Scotia. We reached her in Cape Breton.

[acoustic guitar]

Advance Voters

TS: There are a lot of ways to enjoy the start of a long weekend...if you have the day off: Maybe at home, enjoying some family time, getting in a binge watch or cracking open a novel you've been saving. Or, if you treat yourself to a fish and chips, this being Good Friday, you might have been waiting in a long line at your favourite take out restaurant. But some Canadians took advantage of the downtime today to wait in another kind of line. Advance polls opened today. And in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, returning officer Karen Linfield said things were off to a busy start.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN LINFIELD: Once an election is called, we have to be ready to take people's votes as soon as the election is called, even if it's a paper-based ballot. Within a day, we've had people coming to our office after the March 31st announcement of the election. Turnout has been great. People are so positive, they are very enthusiastic, and they're bound and determined that they can vote before they head on holidays, or if they just wanted to come in and vote.

PETER COWAN: You mentioned they're bound and determined. What do they tell you about that?

KL: Well, some people have said this is my first time voting. I had one gentleman come in with his mother, she was 96, and he told me it was his first time voting, and she was very adamant that she vote. We've had many, many people in their 90s. We had a person come in on her 18th birthday and vote, so it's fantastic. I had a gentleman who was retired military. He said, I defended my country all my life. This is the first time that I am voting. So, it's been amazing. We always celebrate a new voter, we always celebrate somebody who comes in with a parent and they say my son or my daughter is 18 and this is their first time voting, and we make a little fuss over it. We make sure that we acknowledge them and thank them for their vote because it's a big deal. Not everybody wants to vote, but with something like this it's gotten to the point where you can just see the intent in people's faces. We don't know who they vote for, that's their decision. But what we know is that they are not going to miss their opportunity to vote this time.

PC: What's that like for you and your staff who are spending all of their time and working over the Easter weekend in order to make sure people can vote?

KL: It's so uplifting. We have a wonderful team here, as does, I'm sure, other returning offices. But when we have somebody that comes back and they thank the service agent, they thank their receptionist, they thank somebody in the hallway for their opportunity to come in here and vote, you know that we just have to feed off that and just be uplifted as well. It's long days. We're in here from nine to nine Monday to Friday and on weekends as well nine to six, and well actually nine to nine until Tuesday now, but it's a long day, but when you see a smile on someone's face because they have voted, it's fantastic.

PC: Advanced voting is happening over the Easter weekend. What effect do you think that might have on the overall turnout?

KL: We have no idea. I just got back from a couple of locations and there were lineups. At 9 a.m., there were people ready to vote at the advance polls. I don't know that we've ever had an Easter weekend election, but we will find out. And just judging by the turnout on this morning, Good Friday, it's more than what we thought it might be.

TS: Karen Linfield is the returning officer for the St. John's East riding in Newfoundland and Labrador. She was speaking with the CBC's Peter Cowan.

[instrumental]

Opioid Death Flags

Guest: Ron Kerr

TS: It started with one idea, but has since grown to 51,000 flags. In Campbell River, B.C. Ron Kerr was searching for a way to show people the effects of the opioid crisis in Canada. Something that hit harder than statistics, charts, and numbers. Now, the city councillor, who is also an artist, has covered a football sized field with a sea of small blue and purple flags to commemorate every Canadian who has died from toxic drugs since B.C. declared a public health emergency almost a decade ago. We reached Mr. Kerr in Campbell River, B.C.

DS: Ron, can you describe what it's like to stand amid these 51,000 flags?

RON KERR: It is emotional and overwhelming. We finished it off and tidied it up, but it was over, it was probably about 250 hours of planting flags. And I gotta be honest, it one of the hardest five or six days of my life, truthfully.

DS: Why did you want to do this?

RK: Well, it's been a process. I've advocated for men's and boys' health for well over a decade. And so, it's a passion of mine. But, unfortunately, it doesn't hit the mark. And being an artist, I was looking for a way to express it where you don't analyze it. It doesn't go in your head. It goes to your heart. And this was a way that I determined that I could actually make people feel what the immensity of these deaths really looks like and what it really feels like.

DS: In the art installation, you use colour. Describe for us how you use blue and purple to, and what it looks like in terms of representing the impacts of this crisis and the deaths of men versus women.

RK: Where we located it is at the Tyee Spit, which is at the mouth of the Campbell River. It's the

traditional home of the Wei Wai Kum for generations. I installed it at the very end of the spit. The walking trail, it's a paved walking trail, has a large elliptical oval shape and it's about the size of a soccer field. And at the north end of it, we create a large circular shape for the 14,000 purple lawn flags with some white flags mixed in to, for contrast. And that's to represent the women and girls that have died from toxic drug crisis. And then, we filled up the remaining 60,000 square foot area with 37,000 light blue flags, which represent the men and boys. And the scenery around it is just unbelievable. If you visualize a field of grass or wheat, and when the wind blows through it, it almost feels like there's a spirit moving through it. And when the wind blows through the flags, they're activated and they come alive. The location is probably the windiest spot in the Campbell River area. And the location where we put it is in the middle of a walking path, a very popular walking path. And we were also being asked questions by the people walking past. And the majority of the questions were stories of their families, their friends, you know, stories of shame, stories, of guilt, stories of family that are still in active addiction. And it just went on and on and on like that. It was overwhelming.

DS: This is an issue that affects all of Canada, but certainly Campbell river, B.C. you've called home for 50 years. You're a city counselor. What toll has the opioid crisis taken in your community?

RK: There's a conflict because Stats Canada says we're the happiest community in B.C., which is true. I mean, we've got a beautiful, beautiful community, but per capita, our numbers are really showing that there's some issues. And I think one of the things is that we really do have a lack of recovery facilities in this area. And an extreme lack of second-stage housing for people that actually had the opportunity to go through recovery programs. But once they leave, they're back out in the streets. So, we as a council have been advocating with the health authority, with the government for more recovery facilities. We've even actually donated property and had it zoned and we're still waiting. We're still waiting for the money for both recovery and second-stage, because it needs the whole continuum for these, especially men. Because in British Columbia, 80 per cent of the people that are dying are men and boys. You know, every death by toxic drug is tragic, without exception, and there are many, many women and girls that are affected, too. But that is the missing link. We need male-specific facilities and wraparound healthcare. And I think the development of male-friendly health care services, health care clinics, would give an environment where men and boys are not just part of the general population. You can really specifically work with them.

DS: We should mention to our listeners that you've shared this project before and you've set it up elsewhere. What's it like to continue creating this project again for a fourth time and watching the numbers represented by the flags of toxic drug deaths, those numbers rising.

RK: Well, you just have to keep buying more flags. You know, looking at the national numbers, you know, that was four times the size of our initial one. And I didn't really realize at the very beginning just how taxing that was gonna be. I mean, it was scaled up, but when you really do look at each of those flags and realize that was a person, that was a family, you can't really take that in. It's just a really incredible feeling that goes to the core of you when you look at that.

DS: And what are you hoping the legacy of this art installation will be?

RK: Well, number one, you know, I'm hoping that people start talking about the gaps in our health care, in our addiction facilities. That's, to me, that's the forefront. But I'm helping that people stop just looking at the number, you know, the numbers, you know, we've come numb to numbers these days. And even a big number a few years ago doesn't seem as big anymore. You know, with a number you compare it, it's bigger than this or smaller than that. You know, that's all happening in your head. It's not, it's not happening in your heart. So, what I'm really hoping that for, you know, anybody that's experienced it, you know they carried that with them into their conversations.

DS: Thanks for telling us about it.

RK: Thank you, Dave.

TS: Ron Kerr is an artist and city councillor in Campbell River, B.C. That's where we reached him.

[light rock]

Florida University Shooting

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SUZANNE FLAMENT-SMITH: Half of the letter was faded, but some of it was very clear. And one thing that was clear was the date. And that was when I was like, oh my goodness.

NK: Floored. Home renovations can be more hassle than they're worth, you know, unless you happen to find something rare and valuable in between the floorboards -- like a collection of silent movie posters from the 1920s.

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MAN: I could look up and see through the subfloor below the backing of the movie posters."

CH: High ant-bitions. In 1990, Catherine Fuller was putting in overtime working for the World Wildlife Fund in Washington D.C. when she discovered a new and rare species of ant...in her office.

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CATHERINE FULLER: They were quite light in colour and unlike anything I'd seen. They didn't look like the ants in my kitchen or in my backyard in Washington."

CH: As It Happened: the Archive Edition. Radio that's always looking for bugs in the system.

[theme]

CH: Discovering something new is a special experience. And, when it comes to new discoveries, fire has to be right up there. Top 10, for sure. Even today, decades after the discovery of fire, I feel a sense of excitement and accomplishment when I stack the pre-cut logs I bought at the store, and ignite a piece of fire-starter I also bought from the store, and throw it on top. I feel proud of my fire, and my hard work. And I imagine the hominid that discovered fire for the first time, without the help of any stores, felt pretty proud too, especially considering how important fire is for human evolution. Well, in a 2016 study, Katherine Zink -- a researcher on human evolution at Harvard University -- found that hominids made an underappreciated but equally important discovery by hominids before fire: slicing meat. Ms. Zink spoke to our former host Carol Off about taking part in the study herself.

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CAROL OFF: Professor Zink, what was it like to eat raw goat meat?

KATHERINE ZINK: It was not as unappealing as it might sound. It's not a dinner choice that I would make on a regular basis, but it was quite elastic and chewy. We were surprised at how difficult it was to break down, if not impossible, between our teeth. But it was a good experience, I would say.

CO: And then, you cut it up and then was it easier to masticate?

KZ: Yes, it was much easier to chew. And then, since you've already cut it up before putting into your mouth, when you do swallow it, it is smaller particles, and so more efficiently digestible.

CO: What were you trying to find out?

KZ: Well, we know with the emergence of our genus, which is Homo, that there's a dietary shift that occurs. So, the species got bigger bodies and bigger brains, and so that indicates that they needed more energy in order to grow and move around. However, we see at the same time as that shift is occurring, we see a reduction in the size of the masculatory apparatus. And also, possibly the guts as well. So, this indicates that there is some sort of dietary shift going on.

CO: And a masculatory apparatus would be our mouths? [laughing]

KZ: Yes, our mouth, thank you. Yes, our mouths, our teeth got smaller. Our, what we can tell is the muscles appeared to have gotten smaller, the jaws got smaller.

CO: Uh-huh. And this was 3.3 million years ago, at the latest, or the earliest that they were to be masticating this kind of food.

KZ: That we found.

CO: Okay, so by having different methods, what were you trying to find out as far as what might have happened?

KZ: So, there were some hypotheses out there as for, you know, what sort of dietary shift that would be. Possibly a colleague of mine, Richard Wrangham, is a proponent of cooking within the genus Homo, that cooking evolved and that allowed this kind of dietary shifts we see with less chewing effort, but more energy from the food. We also know that meat consumption was on the rise at around this time. And we know that stone tools even predate our genus, so they were around as well. So, we simply just tested these hypotheses.

CO: So, these stone tools, this is your early Cuisinart then?

KZ: Yes, yes, it all started with, you know, just a few rocks, you know, and a few flakes of rocks. But this is kind of the beginning of it all.

CH: That's Katherine Zink -- a researcher on human evolution from Harvard University -- talking to former host Carol Off in 2016. Of course, not all discoveries are as consequential for human-kind. But they're still extremely consequential, even life-changing, for the person who makes them. That was the case for Andrew Rowan. In 1961, when he was a baby, Mr. Rowan was left on a doorstep in Falkirk, Scotland. He was found and taken to a local children's home, where he was later adopted. And 49 years later, we spoke to Mr. Rowan -- who had become a geneticist, and was determined to find his birth parents. From Our Archives, here he is talking to guest host Laura Lynch in 2010.

LAURA LYNCH: Mr. Rowan, how did you first find out that you were a doorstep baby?

ANDREW ROWAN: I was 34 years old and it was the day after my mother died. I was living down in London at the time and I got a phone call from some family friends up in Scotland. And they informed me that my mum had died and so me and my wife, we traveled up to Scotland, went to the house. And that evening, we found a box and in the box there was all these various legal documents including information on my adoption and the fact that I'd been abandoned at one day old.

LL: That must have been quite a revelation for you?

AR: It was a double shock because, you know, the day before I just found out that, you know, my mother had died. And then that day, I had the complete shock that I had been adopted, not only adopted but abandoned as a baby.

LL: How did you go about trying to find out who your parents were?

AR: About 18 months ago, I came across a story about two other babies that had also been abandoned in that area, one in 1965, I think it wasn't the other one in 1967, and those two babies had been DNA tested and it was found that they were, in fact, half-brother and sister. And I thought at the time, goodness, this is incredible because I was abandoned in Falkirk. Could I possibly also be related to Alison and Ian? And so, I got in touch with them and I was DNA tested against them. And it actually turned out that I wasn't related. But the journalist who had been helping me, she wrote my story up in one of the national newspapers in the U.K. And from that, things have just escalated and a lot of people have taken an interest, I think because I'm an abandoned baby but also because my career is as a cancer geneticist.

LL: Of course, and the science of genetics helps so many people establish these kinds of relations and links and fraternity, but in this case it was something different.

AR: That's right, yeah.

LL: What happened?

AR: So, the original story went out in March and there was some television coverage of my story. And Ronnie, who is now my brother, he spotted me on television and felt that I had a strong resemblance to his father. He knew that his father had been having affairs because Ronnie was 20 at the time. And so, I think the circumstances were such that he believed that I could well be related to him, and then knew we went ahead with the DNA test and that turned out to be positive.

LL: What was it like when you first met Ronnie in person?

AR: Exciting. I'd had about four hours sitting on a train worrying about what to say, what to do, how to react, and I just wasn't sure how to react, but it all seemed quite natural when we did meet him. It was extremely exciting. I don't know about emotional, but we certainly gave each other a hug and commented on how incredible it was that we had just met.

LL: And what has Ronnie been able to tell you about your father aside from the knowledge that he did commit infidelities?

AR: Again, my father's had quite an exciting life. He was medically qualified. He was a doctor in the army during World War Two. And he was captured and put into Colditz. And on his release from Colditz, he was one of the first medical officers to be sent to concentration camp. So, you know, some very interesting, emotional, and exciting stories, you know, to be told about my father.

CH: Andrew Rowan talking to guest host Laura Lynch in 2010.

[uptempo]

CH: Even in the 21st century, humans are still discovering new species never before recorded by science all over the world. Like when a floating glacier broke off from the ice shelf and exposed a part of the Antarctic seabed never seen before.

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WOMAN: It was more like, wow. [both chuckle] But yeah, that was exactly what we said, we all said, that was the sound in the room. And look at that, and look at this other thing. Oh, and that sponge has also other species living on that. Have you seen that one? It was a lot of excitement.

CH: Or, like in 2023, when a mycologist exploring the Brazilian rainforest discovered a new species of purple parasitic fungus that infects spiders and consumes their bodies.

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MAN: And we were walking these trails and I suddenly found, like, a mushroom-like structure coming out from the hole and was purple. And I was really, really sure that this could be a new species because there's almost no work done in South America with this fungi. It was amazing. It was. Amazing, yeah.

CH: As you heard, the opportunity to discover a new species is exciting. But John Mittermeier might argue discovering an old species is even better.

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JOHN MITTERMEIER: We did it! Yeaaaahhhh! Wholly [beeped] Man. Oh man, this is the happiest [beeped] ever.

CH: That's the moment Mr. Mittermeier -- an ornithologist and conservationist -- and his colleague realized they had discovered, or re-discovered, the extremely rare black-naped pheasant-pigeon. A bird that was last documented in 1882, and was lost to science until that moment 140 years later. You can hear the joy and excitement in their reactions, which makes sense since they didn't even know whether it still existed at all. In 2022, John Mittermeier spoke to Nil about capturing an image of the elusive black-naped pheasant-pigeon, and the 30-day expedition through the remote forests on Fergusson Island, Papua New Guinea, that made that success possible.

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NK: It's such an amazing moment to watch and to hear, John. What was going through your mind when you saw that image?

JOHN MITTERMEIER: I think just absolute disbelief. A combination of disbelief, enjoyment, excitement, and then relief. You know, we had been working incredibly, incredibly hard to try to find this bird. We had tons of doubts going through our mind at that point, thinking that we might not be able to find it, wondering if it even existed, and to so suddenly have that moment of seeing it, is kind of like all our dreams coming true, and just this incredible, incredible relief that we’d actually found it.

NK: But you caught the image. You got that image just a couple of days before you were set to leave, right?

JM: Yeah, that's exactly right. Literally two days before we were planning to leave. And so we really, we really had our doubts. We were really thinking that we might not find the bird at all. Actually, the morning before we saw that image, just a few hours before that video clip was taken, I've been doing some interviews with other members of the team, talking about how we felt having not found the bird. So we fully expected that we weren't going to find this thing, given the, given the amount of time left.

NK: Now that I've seen an image of the black-naped pheasant-pigeon, as it is known in English, I can see the allure very regal, I think, my first impression. But what makes it so special to you?

JM: Yeah, I think there are a couple of things that make this bird really special. You know, from a scientific perspective, it's a part of an incredibly evolutionarily distinct lineage of birds. This, these pheasant pigeons are really unlike any other pigeons anywhere in the world. They're terrestrial. I mean, they're actually pretty well named. They're these terrestrial pigeons that behave a lot more like pheasants, than the normal pigeons that we would, that we would think about. It's one of about 20 birds in the world, that have been, that were lost for more than a century. So it's really a rare situation, where we have a bird like that that scientists haven't documented for so long. And so to have the opportunity to find it, you know, that, that also adds a lot to that kind of special history, adds a lot to the experience.

CH: John Mittermeier is the director of the Lost Birds program at the American Bird Conservancy. He was talking to Nil about re-discovering the rare black-naped pheasant-pigeon in 2022. It can really seem like, if you want to discover a creature that's new or rare, you have to embark on some kind of brutally challenging expedition across rugged terrain and through dangerous forests -- like Mr. Mittermeier and his team. But Catherine Fuller -- who worked for the World Wildlife Fund -- didn't go to those lengths when she discovered a potentially new species of ant. Ms. Fuller just found them in her office in Washington. She spoke to guest host Christopher Thomas in 1990.

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CHRISTOPHER THOMAS: Ms. Fuller, I've heard of a lot of people who have special breeds of plants in their office. I've never heard of anybody who keeps ants before.

CATHERINE FULLER: Well, [chuckling] it was only because I found the ants on my desk wandering around looking for food that I finally tracked them back to the plant and discovered they were living there. Had they had more food in the plant to begin with, I might never have known they were there.

CT: Do you know where the plant came from? Is it something you bought or?

CF: No, well, we went back to the plant service that brings, that provides some plants for the offices here, including a couple of large plants that I have in my office. They're neotropical plants. It's a dracaena, pretty common house plant. And we can trace it back as far as Florida, South Florida, to a supplier, but we don't know exactly where it came from before that. It may have come in from Central America with the ants hitching a ride.

CT: If you'll bear with me here, I mean, I guess if I saw some ants on my desk, I shouldn't say this to you, I'd probably just flick them off [chuckling] or kill them. I shouldn't say that to a wildlife, how did you know these were different though?

CF: Well, I didn't, but if you were sitting at your desk in a normal office building and saw ants that looked, that weren't supposed to be there, you know, why were these ants here? They were very tiny, they were quite light in colour, and unlike anything I'd seen, they didn't look like the ants in my kitchen or the ants in my backyard in Washington.

CT: What colour are they?

CF: They're a pale brown, sort of a golden brown, just about the same colour as the top of my desk.

CT: Now, are they there now?

CF: Well, they are not on my desk at the moment, but they are happily living in the plant in the corner of the office.

CT: 'Cuz I understand you feed them sometimes.

CF: Oh yes, absolutely. Which means that they're not out and about quite as often as they used to be. It's only if I forget to feed them right here.

CT: [chuckling] What do they like?

CF: Well,tThey have responded very nicely to apple cores and cookie crumbs, and I wondered about giving them sweets. But Dr. Wilson from Harvard, who's probably the world's leading ant expert, was a member of our board. When he came in and was trying to collect some more ants, I noticed that he gave them a piece of a raspberry danish. So, I figured if the world's expert can feed them a danish, I can give them Oreo cookie crumbs.

CT: How big a discovery is this? I mean, is it important to know that these ants can survive in this North American environment?

CF: I think, really, what is significant about this is the indication of how little we really know about all the different species, particularly of invertebrates and plants on the planet. It's not surprising to find new species of ants, or termites, or marine species, or plants for that matter, all around the tropics. We can lose species like these ants without even knowing that they exist. And if that happens, we lose all opportunity to figure out whether they might have provided us with some benefit or another.

CT: And I gather they might be named after you.

CF: Well, I think that's just what will happen, which of course, I'm thrilled about. [chuckling] The idea that I could come up with a new species in my office is something I had never dreamed of.

CT: I was trying to grapple with the words here, is it phydoli?

CF: Phydoli.

CT: Phydoli --

CF: It would be phydoli fulleri, which means fuller's ant, or phydoli fullericola, which is ant living with fuller. And I've decided that if I'm given my choice, I'd rather prefer the latter.

CT: Me too, I think the ant living with Fuller has a nice ring to it.

CF: I do, too.

CT: I guess I now get to be known as the Talker with Fuller. [CF laughs excitedly] Thanks so much.

CF: Oh, you're welcome.

CH: That was Catherine Fuller speaking to guest host Christopher Thomas in 1990.

[flamenco]

[hammering and drilling]

CH: Sorry about the noise. We're just doing some renovations to the As It Happens studio right now in the middle of this show. We're really going all out. We're finally installing a chocolate fondue fountain, a little greenhouse for my orchids, and a new display wall just for all the postcards As It Happens listeners have sent us. It's going to be great. So far, we've just found some sleeping possums under the floorboards -- but we're hoping to find some treasures from the past. That often happens during renovations. On As It Happens, we've heard about people finding time capsules or letters or artifacts hidden in the walls of their homes, just waiting to be discovered. And Vancouver homeowner George Bryce found something under his floorboards that he couldn't stay silent about: a treasure trove of old silent film posters. He spoke to guest host Rick MacInnes-Rae in 2014.

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RICK MACINNES-RAE: Mr. Bryce, would you describe the moment you first came across one of these things. What were you doing?

GEORGE BRYCE: Well, the very first time we discovered that we had posters under our floorboard is, actually, about 10 to 15 years ago when we had our hallway replaced by, actually, the company that originally installed the floor back in 1924. And they replaced the old fur floor with an oak strip floor, which is what we wanted. And under the floor when they removed it were these movie posters. Now, they put up one or two from the hallway. Some we immediately realized that the entire house had movie posters, and that was actually confirmed when renovating the basement. I could look up and see through the subfloor, from below, the backing of the movie posters.

RMR: So, how many are we talking about so far?

GB: Well, we've removed 10 relatively intact posters and several small pieces that are really not identifiable but have nonetheless an interesting image on them.

RMR: Now, these are of some value to people. Tell me a little bit about what films they are, who's in them, the years they harken back to.

GB: Well, these posters come from silent movies from as far back as 1919, and the most recent set were from 1923. Some of the ones that may have some relative degree of notoriety would be an actor by the name of Baby Peggy, and she was in a movie called The Kid Reporter. And that's a relatively intact movie with a great image of Baby Peggy as a youthful reporter.

RMR: That one would have some value because, of course, she was discovered at 18 months and had a sort of a tragic career before she was even six. What else did you find?

GB: Well, we found another one with an actor called Herbert Rolston, and actually he appeared in two or three of the movies that we found the posters for, and that movie was called A Million to Burn.

RMR: I mean, of all of the posters you found, how many actually are in a condition that anybody would want to buy? They've been almost 100 years under floors.

GB: Well, as it turns out, even the ones that have pieces missing have a value. And we've sold the entire set of the 10x posters to a dealer in New York City.

RMR: Wow, I don't know if you want to be indiscreet enough to tell me how much, but could you give me a ballpark?

GB: I'm not at liberty to disclose the final price, but the dealer estimates that when he has them reconditioned, that the retail value of those posters could be anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 for the set.

RMR: Sweet!

CH: That was George Bryce speaking to guest host Rick MacInnes-Rae in 2014. Of course, not all discoveries are as lucrative as Mr. Bryce's. When Suzanne Flament-Smith found a rare treasure, she was giving back to her community, by helping clean up garbage and debris after Tropical Storm Debby in Florida in August 2024. Among the old clothes, pieces of plastic and random junk, Ms. Flament-Smith found a glass bottle. She told guest host Catherine Cullen about her special discovery.

SOUNDCLIP

CC: Suzanne, this bottle could have been just another piece of trash. What got you excited about it right away?

SUZANNE FLAMENT SMITH: Seeing the letter in the bottle and seeing the penmanship, I knew it was something unique. You could see it was an older letter. You could read it a little bit, so I knew it was something special. I didn't think it was 80 years old, but I knew it was something personal.

CC: Tell us about the moment you opened the bottle.

SFS: Well, I found the bottle on a walk, but I didn't open it until I got home with my family. I wanted to be very respectful of what was in the bottle. I wanted to make sure it was somewhere where I could keep its contents safe. I didn't know what all was in there, but I knew it was something I wanted to preserve. So, I got home. We opened as a family, I FaceTimed my son, who's in college, and we popped the cork. And it’s kind of poof, you know, it was kind of a gentle release of air and there were contents in there. So, we poured the contents out and we tried to get the letter out with a stick that was in there. We tried for about 10, 15 minutes and I couldn't get it out, so we cracked the bottle. Once I opened it, half of the letter was faded, but some of it was very clear, and one thing that was clear was the date. And that was when I was like, oh my goodness, this is a special thing that I have come upon. And the letterhead was fantastic too, the letterhead... And the letter itself was very delicate. It is a very delicate letter.

CC: Tell us about the letterhead for a second.

SFS: The letterhead states United States Navy Amphibious Training Base, Little Creek, Virginia.

CC: Okay. Now, when I hear a message in a bottle, I think love letter. Maybe like existential musings about life. You can make out part of a letter. I want to read it here. It appears to start with, "received your letter yesterday. Was glad to hear from you. So, you got a little lit up the other day. Well, that is an everyday thing around here. They have a bar and they have pretty good beer", which is not an existential reflection. I'm going to say. But also lit up is like, that's a pretty modern thing to say. How do you make sense of what was going on in this letter?

SFS: I know we were kind of like, okay, is it a different definition of lit back then as it is now? But then when they talk about beer, we're like, okay, I think it's the same. It has the same meaning. It has such a casual sense of a friendship and just kind of, this is what I'm doing. What are you doing? It's a very, a light letter, which makes you wonder, was there so much going on? This was the kind of outlet to make it light and to kind of maybe not deal with the reality that it's World War Two when he appears to be on a Navy base. It's a lot more casual than I expected, in a pleasant way.

CC: And so, what are you going to do with the lit up letter now?

SFS: My goal is to get it to the family. That's the number one. I don't have any, you know, personal, interest in... I mean, I think it's a lovely treasure, but I think it holds more value to the family that it's that this letter's connected to or the Navy base itself. I don't, I think that's where it would serve its best purpose.

CH: That was Suzanne Flament-Smith in Odessa, Florida talking to guest host Catherine Cullen in 2024.

The AIH Transcript For April 18, 2025

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