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The AIH transcript for July 18, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

LISA BRYN RUNDLE: Good evening, I'm Lisa Bryn Rundle, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

LBR: Tonight:

NK: Hellos and good bye-elections. An independent, first-time candidate is introducing herself to voters in the Alberta riding of Battle River-Crowfoot -- where she'll be up against Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre.

LBR: A new beginning cut short. After fleeing Ghana, a young woman thought she'd found safety in Canada. Instead, she was killed by a stray bullet while waiting for a bus, and will be grieved at a vigil tonight.

NK: Uncharted waters. A new art exhibit invites people to explore the sounds of lakes and rivers -- by connecting them to bodies of water via a rotary phone...

LBR: Home alone. A lawyer working with undocumented parents in Los Angeles explains the challenges she faces as she helps them prepare for the chance that they'll be deported while their children remain in the States

NK: Arrest assured. A Rwandan opposition leader spent eight years in jail on what her supporters say were politically motivated charges. Now she's back behind bars, just a year after she told As It Happens, she feared she would be detained again.

LBR: And...the sweet smell of success. Scientists finally bust the long-standing myth that the sloth was a creature incapable of flatulence.

LBR: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that never runs out of gas.

[theme]

Part 1: Alta By-Election, Belinda Sarkodie Obit, Water Sound Exhibit

Alta By-Election

Guest: Sarah Spanier

LBR: Exactly one month from today, people in the Alberta riding of Battle River-Crowfoot will be headed to the polls, again. The federal byelection is a second chance for Conservative Party Leader Pierre Poilievre to win a seat in the House of Commons -- one of the safest Conservative seats in the country. Over the past few weeks, Mr. Poilievre has been spending a lot of time in Alberta, including making time for an interview with the CBC's Catherine Cullen from a campaign stop. She asked him why the people of Battle River-Crowfoot should give him another shot.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: Well listen, the reality is we got the largest share of vote a Conservative party has had since 1988. So, the answer is that the voice that I bring represents those 8-million-plus people.

LBR: Conservative Party Leader Pierre Poilievre speaking with the CBC's Catherine Cullen from a campaign stop earlier this month. One of the candidates running against Pierre Poilievre is independent Sarah Spanier. Ms. Spanier is a first-time politician and lives in the riding. We reached her in Castor, Alberta.

NK: Sarah Spanier, hearing that, hearing the Conservative leaders say his voice is representing all of those millions of people across the country, is it daunting for you to be up against that?

SARAH SPANIER: No, no it's not. Believe it or not, I just kind of see him as just another candidate equal to the rest of us.

NK: Even if you're not daunted by going up against the federal Conservative leader, you know, they've done the calculations, they have done the math, they know that they won with more than 82 per cent of the vote back in April. They're doing this because they think it's as close to a sure thing as it can be for them. That's why Damian Kerik gave up his seat. So, why run in this race when it's likely one you're going to lose?

SS: Uh, well, people voted overwhelmingly for Damian. They did not vote for Pierre here. And the voices are getting louder and louder of people saying, hey, we don't want Pierre here because he's not Damian. What he's doing is insulting, it's frustrating, it's costing us money. Just because people here support Conservative that does not necessarily meaning that they support Pierre.

NK: We've requested an interview with Damian Kerik. We have not heard back. He is, you know, campaigning with Pierre Poilievre to try to make sure that that seat is safe for the Conservative leader. We spoke with Chris D'Entremont, who won in his riding out East right after the election, the day after the elections, in fact. And, you know, he was concerned that a move like this might come. He didn't think at that point that it was fair to a candidate who won, and worked to win like Damian Kerik. At what point, was his decision to resign what made you want to run, or was it something else?

SS: It was, it was the fact that Pierre felt like he could parachute in here. I have heard quite a bit of that frustration like I spoke about. And I share that frustration because we didn't have a say in this. This just happened. We've got this taken away from us. And now, we are stuck with this byelection that we didn't ask for. And it's just, it's insulting in my opinion. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to step up. And the other reason is because I know the people here deserve better than the representation of a fired party leader.

NK: You have described yourself as a Progressive Conservative, but you are running as an independent, just to underline that for our listeners again. Why do you believe that what you're bringing to the table is going to appeal to voters? Because even if they don't love the idea, as you said, of the leader coming into this riding that wasn't initially his, they may still wanna make sure that he's in the House of Commons in Question Period, and representing the party that they voted for. So, what are you bringing to table to try to change their minds?

SS: I am showing up and I am listening. Like you said before, you requested an interview with Damian and you haven't heard back. And here we are doing this because I believe that this is important. I believe it is important to get my voice out to be able to reach the candidates. And I want to hold myself accountable and show that this what I can do. And I also have a very clear stance about issues. I will be very forward, if I do not know something, I will go find that information. And the other thing with being an independent in a minority government, that voice is amplified. And that voice can be used as leverage. So, I will only have to answer to the people of Battle River-Crowfoot. And what they want, I will use as leverage in the House of Commons to get funding, programs, jobs, things that we need back to this riding that we haven't had since Damian has been voted in because he's not crossing party lines.

NK: There's also the matter and the controversy, one that the Conservative leader has spoken out about saying there needs to be change, is that the longest ballot committees work. You are one of many independents running in this byelection. How do you feel about that sort of flooding of the ballot?

SS: I have been very vocal. While I support the message that they have, the way that they're going about it is inappropriate. I don't believe following Pierre around is helping them at all. They are speaking about wanting electoral reform, but not many people know that. A lot of people just think it's election interference because they haven't put the education behind it. And it's causing a lot of frustration, and I do think it's going to hinder the voting here.

NK: So, a few months in now, what is it like as you knock on doors?

SS: Knocking on doors has been a little bit difficult. That's fine. More of my presence is online. Just because I have received credible threats and some really outrageous harassment online as well. It's been pretty vile from some people.

NK: Have you thought about withdrawing?

SS: No, this is not going to stop me.

NK: Obviously, there are people right across the country who are waiting to see what happens in a month's time in this riding. But what are people in your community telling you about what really is at stake for them in this byelection?

SS: For them, I'm hearing a lot of people who are worried about the cost of living. I mean, this is something that goes across the country. And another big thing is economic development. We are often left in the dust. There's a lack of data collection for rural communities. And there's, like, a lack real voices when it comes to advocating for rural communities. And I want to be the person to get up on my soapbox and speak loud and proud about the issues here and bring funding back to the community.

NK: Sarah Spanier, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you for this.

SS: Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

LBR: Sarah Spanier is an independent candidate running in the Battle River-Crowfoot federal byelection. We reached her in Castor, Alberta. We requested an interview with Pierre Poilievre and haven't heard back.

[ambient]

Belinda Sarkodie Obit

Guest: Evelyn Aidoo

LBR: She was just waiting for a bus. But last week, Belinda Sarkodie was caught in the crossfire. The 26-year old was killed as a man opened fire on another group of people in broad daylight in downtown Hamilton, Ontario. Ms. Sarkodie was a refugee from Ghana who was seeking safety in Canada -- and working to send money to her family back home. The shooting has left the Ghanaian community reeling -- and rallying around her surviving loved ones. Evelyn Aidoo was considered an "auntie" to Ms. Sarkodie [sar-KO-dee]. We reached her in Brampton, Ontario, ahead of a vigil planned for tonight.

NK: Evelyn, I wonder what your hopes are for tonight at this vigil?

EVELYN AIDOO: Well, [chuckle] well, I'm hoping that her friends, family members, concerned individuals, protection from the police, loved ones, will show up not only to cry and grieve, but also to share a life of a person that lived -- Belinda.

NK: She was new to Canada, relatively new. She arrived last year, as I understand it. You were friends, but friends isn't necessarily the right word, because we have aunties and uncles in this world, they may not be blood relatives, but they're family nonetheless, and you were certainly that for her. What did she tell you about how she felt being in Canada?

EA: So, I was not a friend to her. She called me auntie, like many of them do. She enjoyed Canada. If you've seen her photos, she was usually always by some water fountain, right at Jackson's Park. There's a park right across from where she was murdered. She felt free. She was in a space where she could breathe better. She was here seeking refuge from a place that probably did not accept her for who she was. And, unfortunately, you know, seeking to be safe was not entirely safe for her.

NK: That's one fact in all of this, in this difficult story that I know is hitting a lot of people hard. She left Ghana because she wasn't safe there as a queer woman.

EA: Right.

NK: She was also, as our listeners heard, sending money, working to send money back to her family.

EA: To support her mom and sister, yes.

NK: Yeah, to support them. So, what, if anything, is being done to help them now?

EA: Well, currently, there's a GoFundMe going on which essentially is supposed to support her funeral burial, you know, being in the morgue and that. But with the family, I don't know what else would be in place for them. I know she has a brother who's also here seeking refuge as well. And I'm not sure if he's working to support them. I was able to connect with victims' services. We were able to get him a ticket from Manitoba. He landed this morning. I spoke to him when he landed around nine, he was in Vaughan. And currently, he's on his way on a train to Hamilton. So, I should be seeing him soon.

NK: What will you say when you see him, do you think?

EA: Well, there's a lot we've said over on the phone. The mom, up until now, has not been able to say a word. She's completely gone muted from that date on now. So, she has people around her, but she herself has not be able to a word since the incident, just out of shock. Also, I mean, we've had a lot to say, but I've told him standing on the ground where it happened and actually listening to it over the phone It's not the same. So, I've encouraged him to embrace himself, but we're going to be there to support him. There's not much I can say but to give him a hug when I see him. It's not too much to say. I also want people to understand there was a young man, I don't know his name, I had called the mom of that young man on Monday when I was in Hamilton because I wanted to go see him. He was there when the shooting happened, and up until Monday, he was still in the hospital. He's discharged now. But apparently, he's going through the shock and the trauma.

NK: This is a another bystander.

EA: The person that actually called friends of Belinda. So, it's a person that knew Belinda.

NK: You mentioned she felt freer here. What were her plans for the future?

EA: To live, to live, to be happy. The day she died, actually, hours before then, her and Grace were having a discussion about some event they were gonna go on the Saturday. I also was supposed to pick her up Saturday at noon to come to, they had Brampton Pride; Brampton downtown. I was supposed get her and bring her there. Saturday never happened.

NK: You mentioned Grace there. She was Belinda's girlfriend. How is she doing?

EA: Uh, just like all of us, we're just taking it one breath at a time. It's not easy.

NK: How did you first meet?

EA: So, I am a diversity liaison for Rainbow Saga. I guess I have a huge platform on TikTok, and I advocate, I've done this for many years on Facebook. And so, many of newcomers to Canada would usually contact me for one reason or the other. From there, I became an aunt. She would call randomly to share just anything, laughter, concerns about work, just anything.

NK: What do you want people to know and remember most about Belinda?

EA: I want people to remember her for the human that she was, very kind, she was always laughing, always laughing. It didn't matter what you said. Very polite. And I want people to also know that this was a university graduate, someone who graduated with honours, first class. She came here simply because of how people are treated back home.

NK: Evelyn, thank you for this. Please take care.

EA: Thank you.

LBR: Evelyn Aidoo was considered an auntie to Belinda Sarkodie. She was in Brampton, Ontario.

[ambient]

Water Sound Exhibit

Guest: Eric Powell

LBR: Here at As It Happens... we believe strongly in the power of the phone to connect people across the globe. But we are typically calling people. Now, a new installation in Ontario is pushing the boundaries of telephonic communication still further, by allowing participants to call up a body of water and hear what it has to say. Opening today at New Adventures in Sound Art in South River, Ontario, is the Voice of Water exhibit... where you use a rotary phone to dial up a local river or lake. Eric Powell is the sound artist who created the show. We reached him in South River, Ontario.

NK: Eric, our show is certainly familiar with the power of connecting through a phone line, but what do you think a phone line, a rotary phone line in particular, can offer that maps, pictures, or even if you are using sound, speakers, don't?

ERIC POWELL: What sound and a telephone can do as a mapping device is allow us to kind of, to connect more directly with the particular place that we're interested in exploring. There is, yeah, this beautiful intimacy of having the sound come right into your ear without it being, you know, broadcast via speakers, or coming off of your laptops. You feel this connection to what you're listening to.

NK: And the places, the places that you're exploring here, lakes, rivers, what, you know, the way sound behaves underwater is, is different, obviously, as you well know. What do those sounds offer?

EP: The hydrophone, what it does is it allows us to kind of uncover this entire world that's hidden to us. When we're listening, even if we dive underwater, our ears aren't really designed to pick up the vibrations that are happening through water, right? There's this whole diverse and magical world that exists once we kind of cross that plane down into the water. I believe that this piece, the Voice of the Water piece, kind of allows you to connect to that in a way that is otherwise impossible. And if we start talking to a body of water, or at least, like, listening to what that body of water has to say, that can open up a whole new world to us.

NK: We have a few of the sounds that people visiting the exhibit, which opened today, can listen to. We're gonna play some for you and see if you have become so familiar with them that you can tell them apart and tell us what we're hearing, okay? We'll play one for you.

SOUNDCLIP

[water babbles]

NK: So, what are we hearing there? Which one of your clips is that?

EP: Alright, that, to me, sounds like the South River Dam.

NK: Correct. [chuckle]

EP: With these really strong, what I call, rills, right? Which is the turgidity of the water moving around the hydrophone itself, and that's why the dam sounds so, yeah, there's a lot going on, right? Because there's so much water moving past the surface of the hydrophone.

NK: Okay, we've got one more.

SOUNDCLIP

[this one sounds like someone walking in water]

NK: Which one is it?

EP: Oh, that one's trickier because we have a little bit of a mix there. Let's see, I would say probably...maybe the forest lake.

NK: Close, but no.

EP: Ah, man.

NK: It's a bird.

EP: It's a bird. Oh, so that's going to be probably up over on, oh, where are the birds now? [chuckle]

NK: Eagle Lake.

EP: Eagle Lake, yes, of course.

NK: It would be impossible to tell them apart, so kudos for getting the first one. But tell us about Eagle Lake.

EP: Yeah, so Eagle Lake is, it's actually, you know, one of the larger bodies of water on the sound map. The location, I guess, I had the chance to speak to the recordist who made it today, and he was telling me it's a place that's, you know, a family home. And so, to me, there's this, you now, a very pastoral sense to it, right? It's a calm lake, even though it's a big one. And we have a little bit of kind of like marshy area to the side of it, which is where you start getting some of the red-winged blackbirds having their conversations, you know, living their lives as they do.

NK: You've also, you had a little bit of help from sound fishers. What are those?

EP: So the sound fishers are a group of individuals based here in South River. Part of this piece, for me, or part of what makes it really special, is that in the sound collection process, it wasn't me as the sound artist and authority on all things underwater sound based, coming in and making the recordings and deciding what to include or what to exclude. But instead, I was able to give that power and that agency to local community members. And in partnership with New Adventures in Sound Art, the sounds we're listening to today were all collected by people who know the area, who know where there's that little secret cove that's particularly tranquil, or that spot where there are lots of frogs, or lots of blackbirds. And they were able to kind of make the sound map better represent the lived experience of the people here.

NK: I've been listening to some of them, you can click on them on your website. And it's so soothing and calming just sitting at your desk. Much better to be out in nature, if you can be, obviously. But ultimately, what do you want the visitors who interact with this exhibit to take away from all of this, you know, even after they hang up and go home?

EP: My dream is that people who are listening to this piece will start to build a relationship with each of the bodies of water as they're sitting at your desk, even in just allowing the water to kind of flow over you, to start to understand how water works, how water moves, what it has to say. And then, ideally as you move through the rest of your life, that little kernel will stick with you and you'll remember, oh right, the water is moving, it's talking, It has its own, you know, vastly complex life that we just don't really think about all the time. So, there is, you know, certainly an environmental element to it that I think people, that I hope people will be able to latch onto.

NK: Eric, I appreciate this. Thank you.

EP: Well, thank you. It's been a real pleasure chatting.

LBR: Eric Powell is a sound artist, composer, and teacher. He was in South River, Ontario.

[R&B]

Sloths Do Fart

SOUNDCLIP

LUCY COOKE: [chuckling] So, sloths are the only mammal that we know of that don't do flatulence. When they need to expel gas, it's actually reabsorbed into their bloodstream and expelled orally as a sort of mouth fart. [laughter]

LBR: That's part of a fun TED Talk by British zoologist Lucy Cooke from 2019. It’s all about the loveable, mysterious sloth, and its ways. We hope you had a lot of fun listening to it. But just a quick caveat: every second of it was a lie.

SOUNDCLIP

LUCY COOKE: [chuckling] So, sloths are the only mammal that we know of that don't do flatulence. [deep, impending music]

LC: [slowed and distorted] Sloths are the only mammal that we know of that don't do flatulence. [repeats as it fades out]

LBR: Sorry, Ms. Cooke, but you're wrong: sloths very much do do flatulence. Your TED Talk is actually an exaggera-TED Talk; you've been exposed by none other than...Lucy Cooke. Oh, that's you. Okay. Sorry we yelled at you before, and made your voice sound creepy. This week, Lucy Cooke and wildlife veterinarian Andrés Bräutigam shared a video. In the caption, Ms. Cooke wrote, quote: "I once stood on the TED stage, backed by academic journals and the general consensus of the internet, and confidently declared: 'Sloths do not fart.'...I believed it, until I met [Dr. Bräutigam] – sloth whisperer and wildlife vet in Costa Rica -- who proved me wrong in the most gloriously gassy way." Unquote. A video taken by the vet shows a little sloth blissfully closing its eyes in a small bathtub. Then, the smoking gun -- reproduced here through the magic of science-based audio.

SOUNDCLIP

[bubbles!!!]

LBR: In retrospect, it's pretty weird that scientists all agreed sloths didn't do flatulence. All they eat is leaves and vegetables. And they get so full of gas that they actually rely on it to help them float in water: their stomachs basically become beach balls. All that gas has to go somewhere, obviously. And in the end, it turns out it goes out the end.

[ambient]

Part 2: Victoire Ingabire Arrest, Undocumented Guardianship

Victoire Ingabire Arrest

Guest: Remy Amahirwa

LBR: Victoire Ingabire Umuhoza is still behind bars, after a court in Rwanda denied her bail today. As we’ve told you before, Ms. Ingabire Umuhoza is an opposition politician in Rwanda. She returned there from The Netherlands in 2010 to campaign in the country’s presidential election. But she was barred from running -- and spent eight years in prison on charges she denies. Various rights groups spoke out about her detention, and in 2018 she was freed, after receiving a presidential pardon. Last March, Ms. Ingabire Umahoza spoke to As It Happens about her fight for democracy -- and its cost -- after a court denied her challenge to run in last year’s presidential election.

SOUNDCLIP

VICTOIRE INGABIRE UMUHOZA: I have a pain that I can't visit my husband when he is sick. I have pain that they can't be next to my kids, my great kids. But I have to struggle to achieve those fundamental values in our country.

NK: Are you worried about being imprisoned?

VIU: Yes, I know that everything can happen at any moment, but I decided not to live in fear. I have to go ahead with my struggle until we achieve our goal.

LBR: Victoire Ingabire Umahoza's fears have come true. Last month, she was charged with inciting public disorder and creating a criminal organization. We reached her son, Remy Amahirwa, in Gimo, Sweden.

NK: Remy, today the news that your mother's been denied bail, she was trying to be prepared for something like this. How are you doing?

REMY AMAHIRWA: Well, uh, no, it's, it came in hard, but kind of like my mother, I was expecting it. Well, she said it exactly how it is in Rwanda. You never know, uh, when the government might act. And, um, you know, even though it was expected that they will deny her bail, uh, it still, yeah, it still comes in as a rock.

NK: When was the last time you've seen each other, or spoken to each other?

RA: The last time we spoke to each other was the day that she got arrested. That morning, she sent out a text that she has to go and see the judge. But luckily, the last time I saw her was at the beginning this year. And it was the first time I saw her after 15 years.

NK: Oh my!

RA: She never met my wife before. She was not allowed to leave Rwanda to be at our wedding. She was not allowed to leave Rwanda to be at the birth of two of her grandchildren. But luckily, we made the trip to Rwanda in February this year, and then we got to see each other reunite after 15 years.

NK: That must have been incredibly emotional.

RA: It was. It really was. And my mom had a request, you know, when we visited her, she said, like, Remy, I've missed all these important events and dates. Can I please just baptise your children? And my wife had a great idea to, you know what? It is three years exactly after we've been married ourselves. Let's renew our vows and have another wedding day at Rwanda, where your mother can be present. So, it was a feast. [chuckle]

NK: It's so beautiful to hear. And moving, I can only imagine. And then, you're contending with these realities at the same time, these allegations, this case against her. Our listeners have heard a little bit about those allegations, but what do you know about the case and what they're alleging here?

RA: So far, they had presented six allegations against her. First of all was forming a criminal group. The second was inciting unrest. The third was undermining the current government, spreading false information, and a really funny one, tarnishing the reputation of the Rwandese government internationally. But I think they're doing a really good job by themselves by denying my mother her human rights. And then, the last two was like spreading rumours and conspiring a criminal act against the authorities.

NK: And then, as you know, there is a journalist and eight other people on trial right now. They took part in online training based on a book that was written by a Serbian democracy activists. As far as you know, was your mother involved in those sessions, or connected, or supportive of the other accused?

RA: Not at all. And that is the funny thing. I think it was around three years ago, my mother was brought in. And then, you know, they heard her, she answered their questions, and they let her go for two years because there was no evidence at all to link her in some kind of way of forming a criminal organization. For those other individuals, as you said, they read a book, it's called The Blueprint for Revolution. And as one of the subtitles says, for non-violent change. So, these people, you know, I do not know them, but they don't seem to me like a criminal organization. They just seem like people who want to bring positive change to their country.

NK: One of your mother's international lawyers, Ian Edwards, told us they're worried that her case could be linked to the cases of the others, though their trial started back in November. If the cases are linked in the courts that way, what might that mean for your mother?

RA: Oh, that will mean that you'll be facing prison time again, and God knows for how long this time. And even though we got to see each other again for the first time after 15 years this year, it means that I might not see her again for another 15 years.

NK: You were 18 when your mother left the Netherlands for Rwanda. And you didn't see her, as you said, 'till, 'till that meeting in February. What do you remember about that departure? I mean, you weren't a baby, but you're still a young man whose mother was leaving.

RA: I remember it was a lot of people at our home all these days. And even though I knew my mother was doing politics, she warned us, my sister and I and my little brother at the time that there might be some danger with her return. As you said, I was a young man. I was 18 years old. I was a teenager. I didn't really grasp the seriousness. But I remember when I saw those people at our house staying a couple of days before, and the TV crew that followed us to the airport, and all those people waving her out, that I felt like, wow, she's actually doing something of importance, something of meaning.

NK: Doesn't make it easier to be a part, I bet.

RA: No, not at all. When eventually it did happen, the thing that he warned us about, that she might be in prison or worse, it was a dark day for the family, those of us who left behind.

NK: What do you tell your children?

RA: Yeah, it is very difficult now because, you know, big difference with the first time when my mother got in prison is that I didn't had any children. Now, I have to tell them that, you now, the grandma that they just met, you know, the one they just had an amazing time with, that we cannot visit her for a very, very long time again.

NK: Remy, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

RA: Thank you so much.

LBR: Remy Amahirwa is the son of Rwandan opposition politician Victoire Ingabire Umahoza. He was in Gimo, Sweden.

[folk]

Undocumented Guardianship

Guest: Lesly Mendoza

LBR: Leaving a child behind is a situation no parent wants to imagine, let alone prepare themselves to face. But that's the position some undocumented people living in the U.S. find themselves in right now. With ICE cracking down and mass deportations as official policy, some legal clinics have begun advising parents on how best to prepare for the chance that they may be deported, leaving their children behind in the United States. Lesly Mendoza is a staff attorney specializing in guardianship and family matters with the non-profit law firm Bet Tzedek. We reached her in Los Angeles.

NK: Lesly, these are difficult conversations even for adults to have, but these parents have to have these conversations with their children at this critical time. So, what are you advising those parents to tell their children about the possibility that they, the parents, might be deported?

LESLY MENDOZA: Yeah, these are definitely difficult times for parents. They're going through internal thoughts about how to approach this with their children. And our office advises parents to sit down and have a very calm conversation with their child, and discuss it as if it were a family preparedness for an earthquake, or if there's a fire at home. So, we're talking about how can we prepare as a family if there's an incident of a parent not coming back home. And these are really difficult conversations, but parents are asked to just be calm and give the information to the child so that they can prepare them as best as possible in case there is a need for them to execute this plan. Yeah, we also recommend that maybe they use a toy if the child is young, or, you know, do something fun before they have this conversation because it's going to get very serious and dark. So yeah, those are some of the recommendations that we have.

NK: And we're talking about very small children in some cases.

LM: Yeah, so for kids who are very, very young, I think, you know, I think about how do we have these conversations with four-year-olds, six-year old, you now, these are hard things. And maybe the kids just don't want to hear it either.

NK: Do you have a sense of how some of these conversations have gone, have any parents told you?

LM: What we have heard is kids are having a really hard time thinking of being separated from parents, whether it's initially crying with them, or having nightmares, and even parents can't sleep at night and have nightmares. So, if adults are having such a hard time with the idea of family separation, we can only imagine how a child feels and what they don't express, right? Maybe they don't want to say something to a parent because they don't want to worry them more.

NK: The LA Times in its reporting on this week quotes a statement from Homeland Security, from an official there saying, parents detained by ICE are always asked if they want to be removed with their children. These are decisions that many people around the world will not have to make. How would you explain to them, you know, what are some of the reasons that a parent might choose to be separated from their child when they're being deported?

LM: Yeah, so parents are making this, or are faced with this heart-wrenching decision to either leave their children behind here in the United States, or take them to a place where they have no resources, no home, nothing. I would say that if they decide to leave the child here, it's probably because they consider crimes, gang activity in their home country, natural disasters. Maybe some of the very reasons why they left their home country in the first place is why they want the child to remain here in the United States, because they fear going back. And also, because they don't know where they're going to go. Parents are going to be returned maybe to their home countries, and with this administration, we're seeing that sometimes they're not sent back to their own country.

NK: One of the other things in addition to advising them to have these conversations with their children is to have a form called a caregiver's authorization affidavit ready to be signed by someone who could look out for their child if the parent is deported. What exactly would that allow the caregiver to do? What does it obligate them to do, what does it allow them to?

LM: Yeah, so parents, when they decide who would be taking care of their child if something happens, that person essentially takes the child if the parent is removed or detained, and takes them home. And then, they sign the form and that's when it goes into effect. So, when the caregiver, the person taking care the child, finds the form, they are now able to enrol the child in school if they need to, or take the child to get attention, medical attention, if they need, let's say, immunizations for school, et cetera. So, that's what's the form authorizes.

NK: We've had conversations about the nearly daily ICE raids and the roundup specifically in Los Angeles. What are you hearing from the families that you're helping about that kind of pressure, that uncertainty?

LM: Right, yeah, a lot of family members are afraid to step out of their house. But yeah, we're seeing kids, families, everyone, they're traumatized, they are scared, they have a really hard time processing all this.

NK: What about you doing this work on a personal level? How are you doing?

LM: We have to stay calm and control our emotions, but it does take a toll on myself when I did these presentations, and attorneys who constantly hear the trauma children and families are facing and feeling their internal challenges. We, you know, when we speak to them in person and even on Zoom, we can hear, their pain is palpable. And it's heartbreaking to see them struggle with these choices. So, I mean, we've seen parents who are so emotional and confused who can barely pick up a pen or shake while they write down vital information to leave their children as prepared as possible in case they leave their home and don't come back. And then, we also see the parents who are laser-focused on doing everything possible to make sure everything is left in order, ask those specific questions. And we know we all handle fear differently. So, we know as attorneys that this cannot be easy for any parent. But for us, so for us, it becomes very emotional, but we try to stay calm and control during those presentations. Now, outside is a little bit different. I think our heart breaks every moment.

NK: Lesly, I appreciate your time. Please take care and thank you for this.

LM: Thank you for having me.

LBR: Lesly Mendoza is an attorney with the non-profit law firm Bet Tzedek. She was in Los Angeles.

[ambient]

FOA: Big Baby Tooth

LBR: Purva Merchant is not the Tooth Fairy. Obviously the Tooth Fairy isn't a dentist who lives in Seattle. The Tooth Fairy is the Tooth Fairy. But as Ms. Merchant told Nil earlier this week, she is a messenger for the Tooth Fairy. For two decades, she's been responding to emails from parents and kids about lost teeth. And that reminded us of another story we did several years ago, featuring some toothly correspondence. Luke Boulton had one of his baby teeth extracted in 2019, so he put it under his pillow. But there was an unusual addition: a note asking the tooth fairy not to take his tooth. That's because the Ontario child's chomper was massive. So big it eventually earned him a Guinness World Records in the "longest milk tooth extracted" category. Milk tooth is a baby tooth, by the way. Luke's name remains on the website today. In 2021, the then nine-year-old spoke with former As It Happens host Carol Off, along with his mom Alanna Boulton. Here's some of that conversation...From Our Archives.

SOUNDCLIP

AB: [chuckling] He had his front tooth, and he had it, and it was getting pretty big and pretty crooked. And it was affecting his speech a little bit. And so once he got a bit older, the dentist said, yeah, we took x-rays. And he's like, yeah, looks like there's an adult tooth behind it. We'll just get it pulled. And so that was his first time having like, needles and stuff in the mouth. [CO makes a sound of awkwardness] And he was a champ, total champ. Yeah, so when we... I took them, and I'm very squeamish. I looked out the window and held his hand while he was getting it done. [CO and AB laugh] And then I hear the dentist, Dr. Chris McArthur, he said, oh, well, that's a first. And I was like, oh no, what's a first? [chuckling] Because Luke has had a lot of first. [chuckle] And he was like, that's the longest root of a tooth I've ever seen. And so we took a bunch of pictures, and he was pretty excited as a dentist. He's like in 20-so-odd years, he's like, I've never had one that long. And so it was pretty neat.

CO: Luke, what did you think when you saw this giant tooth come out of your mouth?

LB: I was amazed and also confused, like, how did it stick into my gums like that? [CO chuckles]

CO: But they're not supposed to be that big when they're your baby tooth.

LB: I know!!! It's just my baby tooth.

CO: I've seen that picture. [laughing] I have never seen a baby that size!

AB: Yeah, pretty... pretty amazing.

CO: OK, you measured it. How long does it come in at?

LB: Two-point-six centimetres.

CO: [laughing] Really?

LB: Yeah, almost the size of a loonie.

CO: [chuckling] And so when you saw that come out of your mouth, what was your first reaction, Luke?

LB: I said, oh my gosh!

CO: Now, how did you find out that this might be a world-record-breaking baby tooth?

LB: So when we first brought it home, we... we looked on the Internet pictures of the world's longest tooth, and it showed that it was two-point-four centimetres. And then we checked my tooth, and it was two-point-six centimetres. And so we started doing, like, we started taking pictures of it. We did some applications. And then, we found out last week that I had the longest baby tooth in the world.

CO: [chuckling] What are you going to do with the tooth? What have you done with the tooth?

LB: We put it in a little container, put it on my refrigerator. And we just left it there until we knew that we had world's longest tooth. And then we're going to frame, hang it up on my wall. Yeah.

LBR: From Our Archives, that's Luke Boulton -- and mom Alanna -- speaking with our former host Carol Off.

Not Missing Cat Couple

LBR: For over a year, Natasha Lavoie of Surrey, B.C. has been getting voicemails like these.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: Hi, I think I might have found your cat Torbo, just give me a call back. Thank you.

WOMAN: Hey, um, I think I found your cat Torbo. Call me back.

LBR: You would think Ms. Lavoie had a missing cat named Torbo. But she doesn't. This week, she and her partner Jonathan McCurrach got to the bottom of the mystery calls, and they told the CBC all about it.

SOUNDCLIP

NATASHA LAVOIE: I just started receiving all of these random calls from the States, and it just continued on and on. And every day, sometimes like six times a day, I'm getting these really random phone calls and people leaving me voicemails saying that they found my cat and they want money for my cat. And I'm like, hmm, my cat's at home in the air conditioning. I don't know what you have. We started to do a bunch of research. I would say maybe about six months ago or so, we were looking for, like, scouring the internet craigslist, anything we could find, missing cat posters, something with my number on it, like anything. And we obviously weren't looking in the right places. So, we found nothing at all. And it just kept going on and on and on. And finally, I think earlier this week, Jonathan answered the phone, and he's like, why are you calling this number? It's 11 o'clock at night. And yeah, they were kind enough to let us know, hey, your number is actually on a t-shirt that I bought.

JONATHAN MCCURRACH: And I'm like, why would you use a real number? So, first thing we did was try to contact them on Instagram. And we did get a reply just saying like, hey, yeah, sorry about using your number, but we're not making that shirt anymore. But the more I looked into it, the more it just shook my head like, why would use a real number?

NL: I've had my number for 20 years. It's a 604 number. I'm never gonna get one of those back. It's great number, it's easy to memorise. I just, I don't wanna change it. I'll just keep not answering.

LBR: Natasha Lavoie, and Jonathan McCurrach speaking with CBC Vancouver's Gloria Makarenko about the t-shirt that inexplicably displayed a lost cat poster, complete with their phone number, and the many, many phone calls they'd been receiving about their very much not missing pet.

The AIH Transcript For July 18, 2025

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