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The AIH transcript for July 29, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

PAUL HUNTER: Hello, I'm Paul Hunter, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

TALIA SCHLANGER: And I’m Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

TS: Tonight:

PH: A Canadian activist remembers her friend, Awdah Hathaleen, the Palestinian father, teacher, and activist who helped film the Oscar-winning documentary No Other Land was killed in the occupied West Bank this week.

TS: Seeing a shrink. Tuktoyaktuk, a hamlet north of the Arctic Circle, is already on the small side, but it's getting even smaller, and its mayor says climate change is to blame.

PH: Buoyed by their memory. A group of swimmers is completing the final trip of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald in honour of its crew. One of them tells us about the surreal experience of being in the water above the wreckage.

TS: A real page-turner. Dan Pelzer kept a record of every single book he ever read from 1962 right up until his death. His daughter says reading was a powerful constant in his life.

PH: He's being baited big time. A Manitoba man doesn't know who's been putting up billboards around town announcing he's terrible at fishing, but he's found an impressively charitable angle on their prank.

TS: And...Tourists de France. A French resort town is reminding visitors that clothing is not optional once you leave the beach, with the introduction of fines for those wearing bathing suits or going shirtless in town.

TS: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition. Radio that encourages travellers to read the fines print.

[theme]

Part 1: Awdah Hathaleen Obit, Edmund Fitzgerald Swim, Fishing Diss Signs

Awdah Hathaleen Obit

Guest: Anna Lippman

TS: Just five months ago, Awdah Hathaleen was celebrating Oscar gold along with his community -- as one of the contributors to the Academy Award winning documentary, No Other Land. Today, the West Bank resident, activist, and father of three is dead. He was 31 years old. According to many witnesses, he was shot and killed by an Israeli settler -- who can be seen brandishing and firing a gun in video from the scene. The Israeli co-director of No Other Land -- Yuval Abraham -- shared that video on social media yesterday, and his Palestinian co-director Basel Adra wrote, quote, "My dear friend Awdah was slaughtered this evening. He was standing in front of the community centre in his village when a settler fired a bullet that pierced his chest and took his life. This is how Israel erases us – one life at a time." Unquote. Anna Lippman is a Canadian activist, and another friend of Awdah Hathaleen. We reached her in Toronto.

PH: Anna, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

ANNA LIPPMAN: Thank you.

PH: How did you find out that Awdah Hathaleen had been killed?

AL: Um, yesterday I actually received several texts from a few of his cousins telling me. But actually, earlier on in the day, a few hours before he was shot, he actually texted a group of internationals saying there's a really bad situation happening. And then, yeah, the next message that I got was from his cousin saying that Awdah had been shot in the lungs.

PH: What went through your mind?

AL: Honestly, I was in shock, um, situations like these with settlers happen regularly every day, if not multiple times a day, right? And I myself have been part of sort of these confrontations, you know, oftentimes it happens and people get hurt, but people don't die, right? Uh, to hear that Awdah was shot broad daylight, I, I was, I was so angry. I was so upset. And the first thing I thought of was his three children, eight months, two years old, and four years old, who had already been through so much in their life. And now, we'll never get to see or be held by their father again.

PH: I presume you've seen the video?

AL: Yeah.

PH: What, what, can you describe the scene? Like what, and your understanding of what was going on in the moments, uh, before he was shot.

AL: Yeah, so the settlers have brought a piece of machinery to start doing some work on Palestinian land in the Palestinian village. You know, there is a settlement separated by only a fence next door to Umm al-Kheir called Carmel, and they've been encroaching over and over for the past while. So, actually, the first thing that happened is there was a confrontation. Some international Israeli and Palestinian activists came out and told them they can't do construction there, to please leave the village. Things got a bit more intense. And then, one of the settlers, Yinon Levi, whose name we know, who's been sanctioned already by the EU, by the U.S., began firing a handgun sort of all over. And one of the bullets that he fired hit Awdah in the chest, and Awdah fell to the ground and was just bleeding out. And the blood stains are still there today as they're trying to mourn, you know?

PH: You mentioned this family. Have you been able to speak with any of them?

AL: I've spoken to a few of his cousins, a few his brothers. And today, the village actually set up some tents for people to come by and to mourn, and many of the folks in the village sent me videos of the army actually coming and invading this mourning ceremony. So, they arrested a few activists. Again, after they arrested five Palestinians yesterday, and they demanded taking down of these tents. So, you know, even the day after, as his family is trying to grapple and mourn his death, Israel is not letting them have even five moments of peace to grieve and celebrate him, you know?

PH: Do you remember meeting Awdah for the first time? What kind of person was he? What did you think of him?

AL: Uh, you know, I met Awdah for the first time in 2023. He was one of the first people that welcomed me to the region of Masafer Yatta. Awdah, he's such a, he was, it's wild to use the past tense. Um, you know, he was such a kind-hearted, open, sweet man. He welcomes so many people to the village. But I think what really I'll always remember the most about Awdah is how much he loved his kids, and his family, and his wife, and the community. And, you know, every single time he would ever try to drive off from the village, his two-year-old and his four-year-old would stand in front of the car blocking him until he either got out, hugged them, and handed them to someone, or brought them along for the trip. And, you know, just to think that they will never get that again, it just breaks my heart.

PH: You mentioned earlier, the settler who's the suspect here, Yinon Levi. He's been released on house arrest today. You, I think, also made reference to the EU and the U.S. having sanctioned him in the past. So, too, Canada. And I would add that the U.S. under Trump, Donald Trump, removed all of those sanctions. I think Trump called them deeply unpopular, inflationary, illegal, and radical. What would justice look like for your friend in this case?

AL: Imagine being that village and knowing that the man who allegedly shot your friend, your cousin, your father, your brother, is living right next door across this fence. And that's not justice, right? I think justice looks like actual sanctions, actual pressure from the Canadian government, from the EU, from the U.S. And also, to put pressure on the Israeli government to actually take these murders seriously, and charge this person, and remove him from the area at the very least. And not allow him to be on house arrest where he can literally look at the children whose father's life he took, and they can't do anything about it.

PH: Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Anna.

TS: Thank you so much for having me.

TS: Anna Lippman is a Canadian activist with the Center for Jewish Nonviolence, and a friend of the late Awdah Hathaleen. We reached her in Toronto.

[sombre instrumental]

Edmund Fitzgerald Swim

Guest: Tammy Lenarz Carruth

SOUNDCLIP

JIM SEMINACK: We don't know whether the 729 foot ore carrier, the Edmund Fitzgerald, broke in half, capsized, or nosedived into Lake Superior. But its disappearance last night was sudden. It wasn't even a mayday or even an SOS. The boat was on radar surveillance for 10 minutes by an accompanying boat. But about 7:30 last night, it vanished. Winds were gusting up to 80 miles an hour, and waves were swelling to 25 and 40 feet on the lake. The Edmund Fitzgerald is at the bottom. And there's no doubt about that. The search helicopters have already found considerable debris.

TS: From 1975, that’s CBC’s Jim Seminack reporting from Thunder Bay, Ontario. This November marks 50 years since the Edmund Fitzgerald went down in Lake Superior, taking 29 men and a stockpile of ore with it. Even on its best days, Lake Superior poses a formidable challenge…but this weekend, Tammy Lenarz Carruth willingly entered its waters. She’s one of dozens of distance swimmers taking part in a month-long, 661 kilometre relay swim to mark the 50th anniversary of the ship's sinking. We reached Ms. Lenarz Carruth back home in Montevideo, Minnesota.

PH: Tammy, you've been out in those waters after your weekend swim. Have your feet warmed up?

Tammy Lenarz Carruth: [chuckling] They're starting to warm up. They were pretty cold out there!

PH: What was it like at the site? Paint us a picture of what it was, what it felt like to travel to that spot where the Edmund Fitzgerald went down, and to get into the water above the wreckage.

TLC: Well, it was very surreal. We left the harbour around 4 a.m. And it took us about two-and-a-half hours to get out there. And when we finally got there, we knew we were above the wreckage, and it was really quiet. No one was speaking. You could have heard a pin drop. Just knowing 29 Mariners, that's their resting place. And it was a sacred place, and just very emotional in that respect.

PH: Oh man, I'm getting shivers listening to that.

TLC: Yeah, and, you know, after we did a short ceremony for the 29 mariners. And then, after that, we all four got in the water. And just sliding off the back of the boat into the, into the water, knowing you're in 500-plus-feet-deep water and what lies below us was just very moving.

PH: How was the water? Physically, if that's the right way to put it?

TLC: Cold.

PH: [chuckling] Cold!

TLC: Yeah, it was 53 degrees Fahrenheit. It was, it was cold. You know, we had as much neoprene, and I had two swim caps on, and earplugs, and just as much as we could to keep warm. But, yeah, it was pretty cold.

PH: It must have been tough swimming?

TLC: It really was hard. You know, we swam for 12 hours. And, you know, there was wind coming from the south, southeasterly right at us. So, we were swimming into a wind, and we couldn't see land. And it was kind of discouraging because we weren't making very good headway. But, you know, the farther we would get to Whitefish Point, the warmer the waters got, and the easier it was to warm up.

PH: Yeah, you know, and obviously, we call it a lake because it is a lake, but for those who haven't seen Superior, it's like an ocean, isn't it?

TLC: It is. It is, it's basically a freshwater sea. And you can't see land. You know, if it's not for the boat, you'd have no idea where to swim.

PH: Geez! And you were carrying a little something extra weren't you?

TLC: Yes. We all got an iron ore pellet from the Superior Dock, which is where the Edmund Fitzgerald loaded in November, November 9th, 1975. But we all got a little pellet, and I put mine inside my swim cap, so I had a little, like a little marble inside my swimming cap, and just swam with it.

PH: In honour of those who died on the Edmund Fitzgerald.

TLC: Yes.

PH: I have to admit to you, Tammy, that throughout this conversation, I've had the Gordon Lightfoot song, [laughing and then singing] legend Lives on. Very, very famous song. That's how most people, certainly in Canada, learned of the details of what happened that night. What do you remember learning about the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald growing up Minnesota.

TLC: You know, I was 12 years old; a farm kid who didn't listen to the news much, but we did hear about it. And you're right, as I grew up, it was the song that kind of brought it to life for us. You're exactly right.

PH: I understand you've been in touch with the family of one of the crew members. Tell me about that.

TLC: Yes, so I swam for the 29 Mariners, but especially in memory of Paul Riippa. Paul was 22, and a deckhand on the Edmund Fitzgerald. And I didn't know any of the mariners prior to signing up for the swim. And Paul had a college football friend named Dan, and he encouraged me to reach out to the Riippa family. He said you just got to do this. He said they would really like that. So, I found them on Facebook, and messaged them, and asked if I could swim in Paul's memory? And they have just been wonderful, and they just are so appreciative because they want people to remember him and all the mariners. They want to keep his name alive. And remember their brother, you know, they love him and miss him.

PH: Well, you've done that for them. Have you spoken with them since this one?

TLC: You know, we've messaged back and forth many, many times since March, but I've never met them, and I really would like to. They're wonderful people.

PH: Oh, you have to! Yeah, no kidding. You've got to find a way to do that. Look, you know, all of this, obviously, it's commemorating the anniversary, but it's also to raise money, right, for the Great Lakes Shipwreck Historical Society.

TLC: Yes, it is.

PH: How's that money going to be used?

TLC: Well, I think we've raised a little over $180,000. And the money goes to help restore the Whitefish Point lighthouse just to keep it up because it's supposed to be the oldest lighthouse on Lake Superior.

PH: Am I right? Does legend have it that that lighthouse went dark the night the Edmund Fitzgerald went down?

TLC: Yes, it did. Yes. Yep, it was dark that night. And I don't know if it may have been because of the storm. I don't know. But they made it to 17 miles of safety. And I guess our team, we kind of feel like we symbolically made it the 17 miles for the Edmund Fitzgerald.

PH: Tammy, thank you for reminding us of Paul's life and all 29. Good work with the swim. Thank you for all of this.

TLC: You're welcome. Thank you. I mean, it's been an honour to be a part of this swim. So, I appreciate you reaching out.

PH: Bye-bye.

TLC: Thank You. Bye-bye.

TS: Tammy Lenarz Carruth was in Montevideo, Minnesota. She's one of the swimmers taking part in the Edmund Fitzgerald Memorial Swim, which continues throughout August.

[The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot/Canadian folk]

Fishing Diss Signs

Guest: Steve Peters

TS: By now everyone in Winkler, Manitoba knows that Bubba sucks at fishing. A sign first popped up just outside town last year spelling that message out in big bright letters. And when it did, resident Steve Peters immediately wondered if it was aimed at him. His uncle did give him the nickname Bubba when he was a kid, and it stuck. But it wasn't until weeks later that his suspicions were confirmed -- when a second sign went up. This one read: "There are 2 types of people. Ones who can fish and Steve Peters." But whatever Mr. Peters lacks in fishing skills - he makes up for in generosity. He's posted photos of the signs to Facebook. And for every like or comment he gets, he donates one dollar to buy fishing equipment for kids who need it. We reached Steve, "Bubba", Peters in Winkler, Manitoba.

PH: Steve, I gotta ask, do you suck at fishing, or do you not suck at fishing?

STEVE PETERS: [laughing] So, that all depends who you ask. So, there's that term brother from another mother. If you ask Derek Friesen -- we call him "Deep Freeze" -- uh, he would say absolutely, I do. I don't think I suck as bad as he and the signs have have said, but he would be sure to tell people that I am not a good fisherman.

PH: How are you as a detective? Have you been able to figure out who's behind all this?

SP: There is a list of suspects because a few of my friends are big into pranks and jokes, but I've done some digging and they've kind of been ruled out. I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

PH: First time you ever saw the sign insulting your fishing skills, how did you feel?

SP: I laughed. I thought it was absolutely hilarious. [PH chuckles] I honestly didn't know what to think. I was like, that's cool, you know?

PH: It sounds like you're a little bit honoured, I gotta say.

SP: You know, in a way, I am. Because, you know what? There's a lot of things I could be known for, [PH chuckles] a lot worse things I should say, so sucking at fishing isn't necessarily such a bad thing.

PH: So, then you decided to flip the whole thing around, um, and, and use all this attention to raise money for kids. What made you decide to do that?

SP: Yeah, so the community where I grew up in Winkler is known for being giving and supportive. So, when the first sign that came up in Winkler, I was driving to go look at it with my wife. And I said, you know what? I got to do something with this. You can't let something like this really go to waste. So, I made a Facebook post about it, and it was for every like and share from my Facebook page, I would donate a dollar. And then, two of my really good friends. Mark Fehr -- we call him "Squinty" -- and Derek Friesen -- and we call him Deep Freeze -- they both said, you know what, whatever you put in, we'll match. They're both a couple of local business owners. And so, it kind of grew from there, and it's kind of grown into this community has supported me. There was a big support during my battle with cancer a number of years ago, so in a sense, I guess it's just my way of giving back to the community.

PH: First of all, I'm processing the fact that you have two friends named Squinty and Deep Freeze.

SP: Yes, yeah. After word got out that they were going to match, then it was just different community members saying, hey, you know what? We're going to throw in this monetary donation, and we're gonna throw in as much. And then, our local Canadian Tire said, you know what? We'll chip in. There was Four Pines Construction, Newtomac Lodge in the White Shell, they chipped in. We've had monetary donations from Barhead, Alberta. So, it kind of blew up a lot bigger than I ever expected it to.

PH: You ever get a stranger come up to you and make reference to it?

SP: [chuckle] I have actually, driving down Main Street through Winkler, on a nice day you have your window open, and there's been a few times where someone will yell, Bubba sucks at fishing. And I have no idea who they are. [PH chuckles] So, I just give them a wave, and I say, yep, it's true! And I just go on with the day.

PH: Tell me about the Winkler Harvest Festival coming up!

SP: Yeah. So, one day I was driving, and I was like, you know what? It would be cool to be a part of the parade, right? Like, um, so yeah, that kind of planted the seed. And then it was like, well, you know what? I'm a big fan of different shirts that have funny sayings on them. So, I was like, you know, let's make some shirts, and then we can sell them. And the proceed, like a small proceed from that, will go to purchasing more fishing equipment. And we're going to hand it out at our local, uh, Winkler Harvest Festival Parade.

PH: What do you think you're going to do if you ever find out who started all this?

SP: [chuckling] So, I've been on our local radio station a couple times, and I've said both times, like, if I ever find out who it is, I am taking them for a nice steak dinner. Because, one, it's genius. And the signs they come up with are hilarious. And two, like essentially without them putting up these signs, it wouldn't have gotten to the point where it is now.

PH: Steve, I got, or if you don't, can I call you Bubba?

SP: Absolutely, you certainly can, yeah. Most people do.

PH: Bubba, not everyone who's on the receiving end of this kind of thing would necessarily take it the way you have. Where do you think that spirit within you comes from to take this all in good fun?

SP: Oh man! You know, my dad told me years ago, the easiest person to make fun of is yourself. If you can't laugh at yourself, like, you're missing out on life. So, I mean, there's a lot of things I could be upset about and I could be like, why me? This isn't fair. But, you know, it's much easier to smile and laugh about it than it is to be upset about it. I'm, yeah, I like to think I'm a pretty easygoing person. And I enjoy jokes. So, I think it's more so just the fact that somebody was creative enough to come up with this. And I think the greatest thing about it is, it's still a mystery. Like, having no idea who it is, I think that adds to the whole thing. [chuckle]

PH: Look, Bubba, you may or may not suck at fishing, but you sound like a great guy. And I appreciate the time you've taken for us today.

SP: Yeah, no, absolutely. I very much appreciate you interviewing me about this.

TS: We reached Steve, Bubba, Peters in Winkler, Manitoba.

[funk]

Shirtless Overtourism

TS: Forget what you've heard -- life is not a beach. At least not in the French resort town of Les Sables d’Olonne. To be clear, there is still a beach there. One that's a huge tourist draw and a key component of the town's raison d'etre. But there's also an actual town there. And tourists tend to saunter through it straight from the beach sans change of attire...and locals are attired of it. The town will now issue fines of up to 150 euros -- or $238 dollars -- to anyone caught walking around topless or in their swimsuits... anywhere other than the beach. The mayor announced the new fines in a Facebook post in which he implored, quote: "A little outfit, please!" By which I believe he means to please wear an actual outfit, not specifically a little one. In fact, his tone suggests the more outfit the better. He calls it a matter of respect to refrain from toodling around town, quote, "half-naked" -- which he describes as a "vicious tendency." Ouch. We imagine officials will be keeping a clothes watch from here on out. So, to those of you feeling a bit targeted...we have to advise you to keep your shirt on, no matter how hot you are under your lack of collar.

[brass]

Part 2: NWT Shoreline Restoration, Dan Pelzer

NWT Shoreline Restoration

Guests: Erwin Elias

TS: For centuries...at least...Tuktoyaktuk has been a vital land link to the Arctic Ocean. But today that coast looks very different. Huge rocks now line the shore, with cement and other materials holding the land in place. It's the first phase of a plan to slow the waves that have been eating away at the beach, threatening homes and possibly endangering the hamlet's existence. Erwin Elias is the mayor there. We reached him in Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories.

PH: Mayor Elias, when you walk out to the coastline, describe it for me, what do you see?

ERWIN ELIAS: Yeah, the coastline of Tuk, along with the Tuk Island, which we refer to it as, which belongs to the Inuvialuit Corporation, it's amazing to see that we have some rock armour along these areas now for protection.

PH: What's been going on there? I mean, for those who don't know what Tuk has been dealing with, how has climate change been affecting Tuktoyaktuk?

EE: So, I guess a little bit of history, I guess, I mean, we've been dealing with climate change for, you know, years and years. And roughly about eight to 10 years ago, we as a community became a little more aggressive, you know, in dealing with the researches of past. And, you know, also at the territorial and federal level with the government in regards to, you know, what's the next step? We've been researched to death, and, you know, we know what the problems are, and we see what's happening. Now, how do we fix it? And, obviously, climate change, you know, especially in the last 10 years has been really significant and noticeable to the people of the community.

PH: And how did that play out? I mean, less ice in the winter, stronger storms, the water was just eating away at the community? What was going on?

EE: So, anytime there's any exposure of permafrost, it starts to melt, you know? And usually once that starts happening, then you start to get the coastline or the island starts to peel. And once it peels, it falls off onto the beach. And then, with the storm surges and the wave action it takes the material out. So, you're losing a lot of material, and it's just continuous until you cover the exposure, I guess.

PH: Am I right that people have had to literally move their homes because of this?

EE: Yes. And that's another thing. So, yeah, I think four or five years ago we did a project here where we received some funding from the federal government, and we were able to relocate three houses...uh, four houses, actually...from the north part of the community, uh, to Ranger Point.

PH: I guess given climate change, the big question is, is this stoppable, you know? Or are you just buying time, in a sense?

EE: Yeah, I mean, we're dealing with Mother Nature here, so nobody really knows. And at the end of the day, we are trying to adapt with what we're facing today, and I think that, you know, exactly what we are facing today is really concerning. And the biggest thing really is all we can do right now is, you know, try to buy the community time so that we can move on to the next stages, whether it be more shoreline protection, uh, inner harbour protection, or, um, you know, how do you move the community is another, it's another thing? Relocating, you know, it's even hard to think about when you're talking over 200 houses to move. And all the infrastructure, land exchanges, and everything you've got to go through in the future, you know, if you have to do something like this. You know, it's going to take quite some time.

PH: You mean move everyone, the whole thing?

EE: Yeah. So, I think about five, six years ago there was a, you know, a report brought back to us saying that within 30 to 50 years, Tuk will be completely covered in water. And the argument we made, you now, when we were putting in the proposal for the shoreline protection was, you, know, we need this to buy us time so that we can try to figure out, you know, how do we move forward? And if we're going to all relocate, where do you even start? So, you know, this is not a community issue. I think it's, you know, a lot more than that. You know, I think we need every department involved at every level.

PH: I mean, it's really happening, isn't it? I mean it's, Tuktoyaktuk is disappearing is what you're saying.

EE: I don't think I'd put it in those terms. It's because of, you know, I mean, I think that it's so hard to explain at the end of the day. But, I mean, you know, not even wanting to put it into those types of terms, right? It's really hard to comprehend. And, you know, when you're born and raised in a community like this, you cling so much to your culture and your land. And, yeah, it's just, you know, a really big issue we're facing here today.

PH: It sounds like your heart is breaking?

EE: Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to ever think about ever having to leave this community, or relocating everybody. And then again, facing the situation where we are today, you don't know if you're going to get the support you need. It's not a celebration to say, we're all good now, and it's all done. It was a celebration, to show that we can do something like this. Time is not on our side. And, you know, I think time is of essence. And we need to get something going here.

PH: Mayor Elias, congratulations on what you've been able to achieve so far, and good luck for the future.

EE: Yes, thank you so much for having me on your show here.

PH: Thank you. Bye-bye.

EE: Bye-bye.

TS: Erwin Elias is the mayor of Tuktoyaktuk. That's where we reached him.

[newsy theme]

Magdalen Islands Hemodialysis

TS: Murielle Chevarie hadn't planned on spending much of her summer in Quebec City. But that's what the Magdalen Islands woman has had to do -- because it's the closest place she can get hemodialysis treatment. She's one of three people who have had to travel to the city to receive their treatments because of a worker shortage on the Islands. The local health authority says it had increased the number of hemodialysis spots two years ago, but that three new requests filed this summer were difficult to accommodate. So, Ms. Chevarie has been in Quebec City since early June, uncertain of whether she'll make it back in time to return to work as a preschool teacher.

SOUNDCLIP

MURIELLE CHEVARIE: I'm very lucky because I have some hosts who are very kind and very caring for me. So, they come to pick me at the hospital. And so, uh, I'm okay out of the hospital because I'm not alone. And I have some people that I know here, but it's not the same thing for the others.

JULIA PAGE: And as you said, you're a teacher, so you happen to be, you know, off for the summer. If you had other kind of work, you'd also, I imagine, be missing work. And do you know what's going to happen when school starts, and when, you know, you're supposed to go back to work a few weeks before school starts?

MC: Well, yes, I'm supposed to take a contract on the island at the end of August, but we are in standby.

JP: And just to recap, the last communication you've had with the health centre, the lab or the equipment is available at this point, it's just there's no one physically working that can do this?

MC: Presently, they have a problem of staff. Even if they come back at the end of the summer, I don't know if they will be able to open six days a week to take us.

TS: Murielle Chevarie has traveled from the Magdalen Islands to Quebec City to receive hemodialysis treatments. She was speaking with the CBC's Julia Page.

[electronica]

Dan Pelzer

Guest: Marci Pelzer

TS: In this day and age, it's not uncommon to keep a detailed record of the books you read. But if you've got big goals for your Goodreads account, you'll find you have stiff competition in Dan Pelzer. In 1962, Mr. Pelzer started a handwritten list, keeping track of every single book he finished. In the years that followed, he would add a whopping 3,599 titles to that list. Mr. Pelzer died earlier this month. He was 92 years old. He added his last book, David Copperfield by Charles Dickens to the list in 2023. Now, his children have posted his list to a website preserving a public record of their father's love of reading. Marci Pelzer is Dan Pelzer's daughter. We reached her in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

PH: Marci, I'm sorry for your loss.

MARCI PELZER: Thank you, I appreciate that.

PH: This has been going on for 60 years, but I take it you didn't know about this until about 20 years ago, when you found out he'd been keeping this list. Did that feel in character for him when you learned that? Did you go like, oh yeah, this makes sense?

MP: I would say yes, and I think the thing about the list is, you know, people have been making comments like, oh, it's not a competition of how many books you read. And what they don't realize is that it was just a list of the books he read that he kept personally, so he could remember and think about them. It wasn't for anybody else, and most people didn't know he had it.

PH: As a keeper of lists myself, I respect that. [both chuckle] It's like it's for your own fun, you know? So, he began this when, 1962? What do you know about how it all got started?

MP: Well, I'm learning more about that. What I've been hearing from New York Times commenters is there was a Peace Corps program called the Peace Corps Book Locker, and they made sure that all the Peace Corp sites had these libraries of books. So, we just found that so charming. It's as if it was the first free Little Library.

PH: Do you know what made him start jotting them all down?

MP: I think he probably, knowing him, saw that there were a number of books, and thought he could get through them all as kind of a personal challenge. I could see him doing that.

PH: What did reading do for him? Like, why was it such a constant in his life, do you think?

MP: You know, he was a very internally focused person. He was spiritual. He liked to meditate. And he was deep thinker. So, that's how he passed the time. Probably too much time. We know he was at sometimes reading at work. But he also read on the bus and everywhere he went. He always had a book open, a book in his hand. And it stimulated great conversations with all kinds of people. If you told him about a book and recommended it, he would always read it.

PH: Like, when you'd go to see him, would he, like, walk into the house and there he is with his nose in a book?

MP: Absolutely. He set goals for reading 100 pages a day. And he'd tell you I just have to read this many more pages before I go to bed. And, you know, sometimes he would talk about books being a slog. Other times, he'd talk about loving them. The routine became in later years that I'd ask him what's been good lately? And he would pull out the list and look through the last few books he'd read and tell you the ones he really liked.

PH: So, I was looking at the list, right? [chuckling] Like, number 10 is Moby Dick. It's like, really, you're going deep right off the bat. But, like, he's got, I saw Winston Churchill and Stephen King, right? Like Schindler's List, John Irving, Margaret Atwood, books about books, right? [chuckling].

MP: Absolutely!

PH: Like, he was hardcore.

MP: Yeah, absolutely.

PH: Did he, did he have a favourite, like, author, genre? Like, what did he love?

MP: You know, he loved a real page-turner. So, I, you know, like, if, I'm sure if you flipped through like I did, you saw John Grisham all through the years, up till the last 10 books that he read. He loved Stephen King, but he also loved Dolores Kearns Goodwin and lots of Christian writers that I don't know as well, religion writers. He just loved a little bit of everything.

PH: Have you got favourites on the list that you read because he did?

MP: You know, more so, the ones that are special are the ones he read because I read them. Second to the last book is Tomorrow And Tomorrow And Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin, a book that I loved. And it made me happy to see that that was one of the last books he read.

PH: It seems to me that, I don't know, is it fair to say books kept his mind open? I take it he read, you know, about the climate crisis at a certain point. And as a result, became vegan. Is that right?

MP: Yeah, at about 90 years old. And this has also been a good reflection about the things that become harder as you're aging. I think it was a great comfort to him to go stay with my mom who was in a nursing home the last three years, spend some time with her, and then go home to his empty apartment and read.

PH: My librarian friends would be pleased to hear that most of these books were from the local library in Columbus, a place that he was very faithful to, which, as I understand it, is now digitizing his list. Did he know everybody there? Like, what kind of relationship did he have with his local branch?

MP: Oh absolutely. They all knew him over the years. But I would just want to say the really special thing about what the library is doing. His list, when we threw it up online, it's nostalgic, it is yellowing, it's handwritten, it's chronological, and you can look at it and think about what a man was doing at that point in his life. But what the library's doing, it's searchable, you can see the book covers, there are little summaries of the books, and I would really direct people to look at that, too.

PH: The world is getting to both enjoy and appreciate it. What does that mean to you and the rest of your family that this is happening now?

MP: Oh it means the world to us. And, you know, what's really great also is the dialogue people are having with us about the list. You know, somebody emailed me yesterday, and the comment was, I noticed he read a lot of history in 1968, I wonder why. And, of course, I flipped open and started thinking about what was going on in the world and the books he was reading, and it was such a great experience. Or people who point out that in 1998 and 1999 between diet books and Suze Orman, he was reading the Modern Library's top 100 novels. [PH chuckles] Titles like I, Claudius, and Grapes of Wrath, and yes, his least favourite, Ulysses.

PH: [laughing] If your dad was here now, and he knew that the whole world was looking at his list and getting something out of it, how do you think he'd feel?

MP: I think he'd love to see the library getting the attention. And he's so grateful to what public institutions like libraries have done for the community. If it's getting kids to read, he'd be thrilled. And then, you know, he's very interested in a peaceful world, and those kinds of dialogue that make us more tolerant of one another, that would have been important to him, too. So, he would have loved it all.

PH: Three thousand five hundred and ninety-nine books, my goodness!

MP: It's an amazing legacy.

PH: Isn't it? Thank you so much, Marci.

MP: Thank you. I've really enjoyed talking to you.

PH: Bye-bye.

MP: Bye-bye.

TS: Marci Pelzer is the daughter of the late Dan Pelzer. We reached her in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[lo-fi]

David Pelletier

TS: You don't get very far in hockey without being really, really good at skating. And for the last 11 years, David Pelletier has helped the Edmonton Oilers be just that as the team's skating coach. But now, he's going to try his hand at all the other stuff you need to be really good at in a hockey game...as an assistant coach for the NHL's Dallas Stars. Pelletier is probably still best known for winning gold in pairs figure skating with his partner Jamie Salé at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. CBC's Sarah-Kate Dallaire spoke to Coach Pelletier about why he's taking up this new job.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID PELLETIER: After my, you know, my, I don't like to use the word career, but my chapter as a figure skater, you know, you go on, and you go on to this professional circuit. And then, one day, you've just had enough. And I had enough. I started coaching a little bit of figure skating just to stay busy, but I realized quickly I didn't have the fire in me anymore. I think I went around that circle a few times. And I remember there's a dad at the rink that asked me if I could help with his son with his skating when he was playing hockey? And then, that led to working with his team. That led to working with other teams. And then, all of a sudden, I received a call from the Edmonton Oilers asking me if I wanted to work with their prospects in the summer? And that was 11 years ago. I'm quite proud of the longevity I had with the team, and my role kind of not changed but evolved. Where the responsibilities and tasks were added to my fundamental roles of player development. And now, you look at the roles I will have with the Stars. It's sensibly, you know, on a daily, the same job. You just got to help the players be the best they can and take away all the worries and distraction.

SARAH-KATE DALLAIRE: How did the players react when they learned that an outsider from the hockey world, essentially, someone with an impressive career, but not familiar as much with hockey, would come in and teach them how to skate, or be there as their coach, their skating coach?

DP: If you grew up in the Gaspé area, and you're doing figure skating in the '80s in the town of 2,000 people, you can only imagine, you know, you kind of grow up with, yeah, you don't have a choice. You have to build this layer of protection because you get called names that we don't thankfully use anymore. You kind of grew up thinking what you're doing is not respected, until you decide to respect it yourself. And then, you own it. And going into hockey, I have to say, first and foremost, you're going in with your walls up and a little bit of a chip on your shoulder, thinking is this going to be, well, I'm a figure skater. I got made fun of all my life. This is the NHL. But I have, to say, truly, 100 per cent, not one player has never made me feel like I was less than them because I was a figure skater.

TS: That was David Pelletier talking to CBC's Sarah-Kate Dallaire about his new assistant coaching gig with the Dallas Stars.

[chillhop]

SOD: Trump Bagpipes

TS: Have you ever heard the old joke - "What's the difference between bagpipes and an onion?" The answer is: "No-one cries when you cut up bagpipes." That punchline is just one sign that the sound of bagpipes are not universally beloved -- though they certainly do have their fans. But equally divisive may be the sound of Donald Trump speaking to reporters. It's music to the ears of some. Others, not so much. And so, it was met with considerable glee all around when those two sounds met. The president paused to address reporters during a photo-op with U.K. Prime Minister Kier Starmer at his golf club in Scotland this week. All while an enthusiastic piper nearby continued to play at full-tilt. And this, my friends, is our Sound Of The Day.

SOUNDCLIP

[Donald Trump is heard talking behind bagpipes being played as loud as have ever been played before

TS: That was our Sound of the Day -- from the Turnberry golf course in Scotland earlier this week. Bagpipes versus Donald Trump, a battle no-one wins.

The AIH Transcript For July 29, 2025

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