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The AIH transcript for June 12, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Stephanie Skenderis, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: More than 260 people are dead after an Air India flight bound for London crashes in a residential neighborhood. A reporter in India tells us what she’s learned about what happened.

CH: Tick talk. A potentially game-changing vaccine against Lyme disease is currently in clinical trials. A scientist in Nova Scotia -- where ticks are rampant and ravenous -- says it can’t come fast enough.

NK: 23andMe, and whoever else wants it. Dozens of states join forces to try to prevent the bankrupt biotech company from selling millions of people's DNA -- and other deeply sensitive data.

CH: A checkered past. A Montreal business owner says last year's Formula One race was a fiasco -- but the city seems to have gotten its act together for this weekend's big event.

NK: Abra macabre. A Cambridge University professor is so spellbound by the many murders in medieval England that he decided to map out where they all took place -- and he's thrilled to death that his project has just been published.

CH: And...a lean moon fighting machine. The asteroid we once feared would hit the Earth has switched targets -- and may now be on course to smack right into the poor innocent moon.

CH: As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that supposes it's for the crater good.

[theme]

Part 1: Air India Crash: Reporter, 23andMe Lawsuit, Medieval Murder Map

Air India Crash: Reporter

Guest: Karishma Mehrotra

CH: Tonight, there were candlelight vigils across India mourning the victims. An Air India flight carrying 242 people went down today, soon after taking off from Ahmedabad -- crashing into a building and bursting into flames. Most of the passengers were from India. Some were British and Portugese. One Canadian was on board -- a dentist from Mississauga named Nirali Patel. So far, only one survivor has been identified -- Vishwashkumar Ramesh from Leicester, England. His cousin, Ajay Valgi, spoke to to the BBC about the brief call the family got from him after the crash.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: So, what did he tell you on the phone?

AJAY VALGI: Nothing, all he said that he's fine, nothing else.

REPORTER: So, Vishwash called the family and said he's fine?

AV: Yeah, he's fine, and I said nothing else.

REPORTER: And what happened to his brother, you said, he was sat with his brother on the --

AV: Yeah, they were sitting next to each other, but we don't know what happened to his brother. We've not heard anything.

REPORTER: This must be so overwhelming and confusing?

AV: Not confusing, he absolutely upset things, not just because he is our brother of other people as well, but there is 242 people in the flight.

REPORTER: Jay, how are you doing? This is your cousin who --

AV: I'm feeling absolutely upset, just not my cousin, he's also one of my best friends as well, so I'm feeling upset.

CH: Ajay Valgi, who had two cousins on the Air India plane that crashed, speaking to the BBC. Karishma Mehrotra is a reporter with the Washington Post. We reached her in Delhi earlier today.

NK: Karishma, you have access and are able to see some of the latest footage and hear the latest accounts. What are you seeing in that footage right now from the scene?

KARISHMA MEHROTRA: Yeah, it looks quite apocalyptic around the area where the plane has crashed into what seems like a medical college in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, India, and we saw a lot of footage of first responders, firefighters, sort of moving through that wasteland of sort of, you know, charred frames of vehicles and mangled metal, lots of scorched trees, there's obviously a lot of bystanders trying to help out, put bodies on stretchers that are covered with white cloths. And, obviously, firefighters have hauled and were hauling hoses towards the smouldering building. There was also some footage of the tail of the plane ripping into the upper floor of the hostel. So, it's sort of jutting and protruding out of that building, the upper floor of that building. And there was also photos of other parts of the plain strewn in what seems like the dining area of this hostel.

NK: This is housing, what we believe is a medical school. What about the injuries there?

KM: Yeah, it's not clear. We've seen some local news reports that are saying roughly five, but we also have some folks on the ground who are surmising much larger numbers. So, I would refrain from sort of saying anything solid at the moment. I think everyone is still sort of sorting through the carnage, unfortunately. There are some, for sure, some casualties have happened at the medical college as well. Keep in mind this was around 1:30. And if it is the dining hall that we see in photos, then it was lunch hour for the college.

NK: If we go back a bit to this plane taking off, heading to London as we understand it, what do you know about what happened? How soon after did things go so wrong?

KM: It looks like it was just about five minutes after the takeoff. It had just reached only 600 feet in altitude. And so, the videos that we've seen show it sort of barely lifting off the ground above the buildings and then almost immediately sort of hovering back down towards the ground, and then a big sort of fireball and a large plume of thick black smoke after that.

NK: Is there any discussion at this point, certainly, there are so many questions about what might have happened.

KM: Oh, I think it's way too soon to know. Anything I would say would be just conjecture. Boeing has come over, this was a Boeing flight, and Boeing has come under a lot of scrutiny. There's a whistleblower with concerns about going to manufacturing just earlier this year. And last year, we saw two Boeing flights, one in Indonesia and one in Ethiopia, have a crash that the authorities then found reason to believe that it was a malfunction from Boeing's end. But also, I mean, I'll just tell you what I'm including in my story is not to say that I am trying to place blame anywhere. It's too soon to say anything like that. But also, Air India has also come under scrutiny. This was an Air India operated flight, and there have been crashes over the past decades that have been Air India flights. But again, it's way too soon to know what happened.

NK: And we should let our listeners know this is, we're talking about a 787 Boeing Dreamliner. This is the first crash For a plane of this type, of course, we've covered extensively the Boeing 737 MAX deadly crashes in years past. And as you say, there are questions being asked about the Boeing Dream liner at the heart of this crash at this point. And what kind of reaction are you seeing and hearing in Ahmedabad and in Delhi where you are?

KM: Yeah, I mean one is, obviously, everybody has come out to give their condolences. World leaders have done so as well. You have some of the high leadership of Delhi already in Ahmedabad, taking stock of the situation. And, of course, on the ground. The folks we've spoken to are sort of discussing the tragedy that this is. And the sort of sad day that they are having to witness. Obviously, many of the people who are on the ground are telling it that this was the first time they've ever seen this many dead bodies in their life. And so, right now, I think it's a bit of a shock at the moment that will probably shift into some form of mourning. And then, of course, there'll be discussions about what happened and how can we prevent something like this from happening again.

NK: Karishma, I appreciate this. Thank you. Please take care.

KM: Thank you, thank you very much.

CH: Karishma Mehrotra is a reporter with the Washington Post. We reached her in Delhi earlier today.

[heist music?]

23andMe Lawsuit

Guest: William Tong

CH: There's not a lot that politicians in the United States agree on. But here's one thing: 27 states are teaming up to sue 23andMe. Attorneys general -- both Democratic and Republican -- from those states are hoping to prevent the genetic testing company from selling the data of its 15 million customers. That means web browsing data and personal information -- but it also means the most personal information. Like, actual vials of spit that hold peoples' entire genetic makeup, from their ancestry to their predisposition for health conditions. The company declared bankruptcy in March, and announced it would be pursuing a sale. Now, the sale is down to the last two bidders. William Tong is the attorney general of Connecticut and one of the plaintiffs. We reached him in Stamford, Connecticut.

NK: Attorney General Tong, in bankruptcy proceedings, as you know, auctions are standard procedure. So, were you surprised? Did you think someone was going to come in and stop it in this case?

WILLIAM TONG: Uh, Am I surprised? I guess nothing surprises me, except to say that entrepreneurs, particularly in the tech industry and the health care industry and the biotech industry, need to understand that they have to take care of the personal information that they get from consumers. And it galls me, and it may not surprise me, but it galls to me people don't take care. And when they don't, I have to take action against them. But the problem is, is that by the time it gets to me, that information may already be out there. People are getting hurt. And that is what's so wrong about this process.

NK: I want to play a clip for you and our listeners. It's from the interim CEO of 23andMe, Joe Selsavage. He was addressing the U.S. House of Representatives, who were speaking about concerns about national security and privacy around 23andME.

SOUNDCLIP

JOE SELSAVAGE: I, as interim CEO, am very confident that the sale of the company will not result in the company being sold, or the data ending up in the hands of a bad actor. And by that, I am referring to China, Russia, Iran.

NK: I would imagine that there could be concern about bad actors in other places, including in the United States. But should consumers, Attorney General Tong, take any comfort from what the interim CEO said this week?

WT: Yeah, you know, I'm not going to take his word for it. Obviously, he's got an interest in getting the company sold. And his priority is the company and its creditors and shareholders, and not necessarily consumers. So, I wouldn't take the company's word for it. We've already, you know, we've already experienced too many problems with the company and its management. So no, I don't trust the company it's board or its management to do the right thing. We need a bankruptcy court to supervise this and make sure that the right thing is done for consumers. But right now, you've got a bidder who represents the original founder who messed things up in the first place, and did not do enough to protect the people whose information was given to 23andMe -- sensitive genetic information.

NK: And the other bidder is a pharmaceutical company. What are, in your mind, what are your biggest concerns or worst case scenarios for what happens to this material -- to this information?

WT: My biggest concern continues to be that consumers, regular people like you and me, went on 23andMe, provided very sensitive personal information about their genetic history, about who they are, where they live, biometric information, sensitive personal information that belongs to them. And that information is still out there. We don't know who is actually handling this data right now, who owns the data that belongs to all of us, meaning who, person, corporate entity, owns and controls the data that we gave to them but that ultimately belongs to us.

NK: You've encouraged people to go on the site and delete their information from 23andMe. I believe they're still able to do that now. Is that enough?

WT: Yes. It's not enough, but it's necessary, meaning, as we lawyers say, it's necessary, but not sufficient. Get on the website. If you're a customer, follow all the prompts and delete your personal information, destroy your test sample, destroy the genetic information that you've given, and then on top of that, we're fighting tooth and nail to protect consumers. Twenty-seven states have come together to sue 23andMe to get that information that we need, what happened to this data, who owns it, who controls it, and to hold them accountable and to make sure they're responsible with our personal information.

NK: We reached out to 23andMe, a spokesperson responded saying the arguments in your suit are, quote, without merit. And that, quote, the sale is permitted under 23andme privacy policies and applicable law, unquote. What do you feel are your chances at this stage to prove that this data is different than other property?

WT: They're wrong. And obviously, nobody should trust a company that has so poorly handled our personal information, you know, that's in the process of melting down, you know, as a business. They've had to eject the founder and put in a new CEO, even though she's on the board. They went into bankruptcy. Does this sound like people who know what they're doing? So, give me a break.

NK: There may be folks out there who, you know, putting the leak aside, that they were helped by this information or getting access to knowledge about their ancestors. Do you think that people should ever feel that they can trust a company like this?

WT: Look, there's no doubt that this information can be helpful to people. There's no doubt that technology enhances our lives in many ways. Social media, for example, people love it, it enhances our connectivity to each other and staying in touch with each other. But there are a lot of downsides in social media, for example, the harm to young people, the misinformation and disinformation. And so, it is with genetic testing and technology platforms like this that marry technology and science. Even though there's some good things, there are a lot of bad things. And when people don't take adequate care to control the information and protect consumers and make consumers and customers number one always in what they do, then bad things can happen.

NK: Attorney General Tong, I appreciate your time, thank you.

WT: Thanks so much.

CH: William Tong is the attorney general of Connecticut. We reached him in Stamford, Connecticut.

[heist music again?]

Medieval Murder Map

Guest: Manuel Eisner

CH: If you're visiting the U.K., you'll probably spend some time researching the cities you're going to visit. You need to find out which cities have the best museums and castles, where to get or avoid blood pudding, and whether there's another Stonehenge that's closer and less busy. But if you're intrigued by the darker side of the pasts of British cities, may we recommend Manuel Eisner's "murder maps." Professor Eisner is a criminologist at the University of Cambridge. And for the past 15 years, he's been mapping England's bloody history -- pinpointing exactly where murders occurred across three cities during the medieval period. That is a pretty challenging task -- because it was a pretty violent time. His maps have now been analyzed and published in the journal Criminal Law Forum. We reached Professor Eisner in Cambridge, England.

NK: Professor, you've spent a long time working on these maps. What is it that fascinates you so much about medieval murders in particular?

MANUEL EISNER: One thing that really fascinates me about this particular source of information is that it gives us extraordinary lively impression of a minute or a few minutes, many hundred years ago. And it shows you something about the dynamics and the motives and the people around. So, it's a little bit like a little video clip. And I found this absolutely fascinating when I first learned about this.

NK: The maps that you've made here show anyone who's looking at them exactly where each individual murder took place. They're interactive as well. What else do they show?

ME: Well, you can look at various things if you're interested. For instance, you could select the day when murders happen. So, you can get an idea of which weekdays were the ones that were most murderous. You can also look at, for instance, the distribution of murders committed by men, murders committed women, or you could look at the time of the day. So, we've made these interactive maps in such a way that they are quite fun to play with. For some of the stories, we have voiceovers, so you can listen to what the story that has been told. And we're now building increasingly podcasts with my daughter and myself where we tell the story and we analyze what has been going on.

NK: And you also have coroner's reports at very specific locations and records. What kinds of things do those coroner reports reveal in terms of creating that very specific snapshot of what happened?

ME: The English law in the Middle Ages required that if a dead body was found where there was a suspicion of a violent death, of some foul play, the coroner had to go there immediately. And the coroner would call together a jury. The jury would then call witnesses, they would interview the witnesses, they would talk to each other, and then they would come up with a report with a verdict what the cause of the death was and whom they suspect of the death. These accounts were highly standardized, so you always find a description of the wounds and what it looks like. You always find a description of who the suspects are. And always an account of what happened and where it happened. And that's what was the basis of our medieval murder map.

NK: What kinds of motives are we talking about? What were people fighting over to then have it escalate to murder?

ME: One of the interesting things about the medieval murder cases and what you can read on the mediaeval murderer map is that there is no such thing as this one motive. One big group of motives is quite similar to what we see in modern societies, namely that astonishingly many homicides start with very trivial altercations. An insult, somebody looks at you in the wrong way, some conflict about selling a few apples, and you can't agree the price, and things go wrong.

NK: Oh my.

ME: [chuckling] Then, you have a group of motives that are more related to defending your territory, defending your own turf. Medieval cities were very much organized by groups. The guilds had their own areas, the tailors, the shoemakers, they all had their own areas. And at the boundaries between these areas there would be conflicts between people. And they would do so, and that's the interesting thing, they would do so not do so somewhere in a small back alley, they'd try to do this in the most glamorous street in London because they wanted to be seen.

NK: And overall, how would you compare in terms of the level of violence, medieval England to the England of today?

ME: I mean, first of all, I want to say the comparison is sometimes very difficult. The murder rates in themselves are much higher than they are in modern society, about 20 times higher, but you have to bear in mind, for example, that many of the stabbings, and stabbins it was in the majority of cases, would end up with somebody being taken to A&E and the person would survive. That was not the case many people would bleed to death from wounds that could easily be treated these days. But undoubtedly, it was a society where there was no established rule of, well, there was a rule of law, but it was very difficult to enforce it. There was not established police force and many people would see it as their duty to establish law and order themselves.

NK: You mentioned that you're working on podcasts with your daughter on these murders as well. I wonder the kinds of conversations the two of you must have, because we're also living in a time, for better or worse, where people are quite obsessed with true crime, and it almost sounds like back then they were as well, because it was all around them.

ME: Yes, well, I mean, one of the things I would love to be able to do would be to sit with one of these juries and listen to all the conversations they had in the neighbourhood and all the rumours that are spreading around and so on. That would be very interesting. What we try to do in the podcast series is to use the Middle Ages as a way to better understand our present. And so, whenever we discuss a case in the Middle Ages, we try to explain to listeners what this means for violent crime in our modern times.

NK: Professor, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

ME: Thank you very much.

CH: Manuel Eisner is a criminologist at the University of Cambridge. And we reached him in Cambridge.

[hip-hop beat]

Moon Asteroid

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: It's perfect.

WOMAN: I've never seen a moon like that before.

MAN: It makes you look like an angel. Looks like a giant snowball.

NK: I love it!

CH: A classic scene from Moonstruck -- a film that lovers love, and moon-lovers love, but moon-haters hate. "Who hates the moon?" you're asking incredulously. Oh, trust me: people do. They look up at that glowing satellite that inspired artists from Shakespeare to Dickinson to Vachon -- the company that makes the 1/2 Lune Moon cakes -- and they see a smug mooch that just hangs around mooning the Earth. "Get a job, freeloader!" they holler into the night sky. And today, those moon-haters are filled with hope. Because astronomers say there is a chance that the moon is going to get a smack.

SOUNDCLIP

[an asteroid hits the moon?]

CH: Now, don't get your hopes too high, lunophobes: after analyzing observations from the James Webb Space Telescope, the astronomers say there's currently a 4.3 per cent chance that Asteroid 2024 YR4 will hit the moon in December of 2032. A little more bad news: if it does hit, it won't crack the moon in half, or punch a hole through it, or anything. But it will leave an embarrassing crater that you can laugh at forever if that’s your thing. Incidentally, you may be thinking, "Asteroid 2024 YR4 -- where do I know that name from? Was that my high school bully?" Well, no, but it is a bully: Asteroid 2024 YR4 is the same asteroid that once seemed to be on target to smash into the Earth. Now, that's not a threat anymore, but evidently 2024 YR4 is hell-bent on punching some celestial body in the face. And it's settled -- for the time being, at least -- on the moon. For moon-lovers: upsetting. For moon-haters: exciting. Because moon-lovers love Moonstruck, but moon-haters love a struck moon.

[lounge jazz]

Part 2: Lyme Disease Trials, Montreal Formula 1

Lyme Disease Trials

Guest: Joanne Langley

CH: In Canada, lyme disease was once almost non-existent. Now, the number of Canadians across the country being infected every year has gone from the hundreds to the thousands. That's why more than 9,000 people across Canada, the eastern U.S., and Europe are taking part in Phase 3 clinical trials for the first vaccine against Lyme infection for humans. It's a collaboration between the American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and the European vaccine company Valneva. The clinical trials are scheduled to run until the end of the year. Dr. Joanne Langley is a pediatrician with the Canadian Center for Vaccinology, a Halifax-based group that’s helping conduct the clinical trials in Nova Scotia. We reached her in Pictou County.

NK: Dr. Langley, ultimately, what are your hopes for this vaccine? Who might it help, could having a vaccine for humans make at this stage?

JOANNE LANGLEY: Right now, the only way we have to prevent lyme disease is kind of tick-directed activities. So, if you go outside, if you're a camper, or a fisherman, or you just like to hike in the woods, you should have the lawn mowed, you should wear long sleeves, long pants, have socks over the end of your pants, and potentially have an insecticide on your clothes. And then, when you come back, you should do a tick check. And so, that is quite a lot of effort. We want the outdoors to be appealing, and it's a great healthy place to be. So, it is a bit of a barrier to that. So, that's one of the effects that we could prevent, also prevent a lot of antibiotic use that we're using to prevent illness after a tick bite, or to treat actual disease.

NK: In Nova Scotia, in particular, in Pictou, where you are today, how big of an issue are tick bites and then lyme disease from it?

JOANNE LANGLEY: So in Nova Scotia, we are really lyme endemic. There are areas where there's a higher risk of a tick having the bacteria, which is Borrelia burgdorfi. And it's increased really, it started in the States around 2001. And the second decade after that, we started to see more cases here. And now, it's the most common tick-associated illness in North America. And in children, it's the most common cause of arthritis in a single joint. So, it is a big problem. It takes a lot of, makes people unhappy, makes them unwell, and takes a lot of health care resources.

NK: Why do you think there has been that increase?

JL: I mean, it is a zoonosis. So, what that means is it's a bacteria that spends part of its life cycle in other hosts, particular mammals, as well as the tick. So, and then when It lands on the human, it's a dead-end host. Like, it doesn't intend to land on the human and that doesn't help it reproduce. The tick has to survive through the winter. And that means that under four degrees, it doesn't survive. So, the harder your winter is the lower your burden of a lot of insect species will be the following summer. And with climate change and migration of species and the increasing interaction of humans with our wilderness that is becoming kind of civilized or taken over by urban development, we are increasingly in touch with other species that have ticks that carry diseases like lyme disease.

NK: And some of the symptoms, you mentioned also other ones, fever, chills, muscle and joint pain. I can imagine that sometimes it's even hard for people to figure out what they have.

JL: Exactly. If you get inflammation at the site of a tick bite, a certain percentage of people will have a red ring around that site, but many people won't. And they either didn't see it, or it just progressed without that presentation. They would, in the secondary stage of lyme, you may just have very nonspecific symptoms that are hard to diagnose, like a headache, aches and pains, and so on. But you can also have heart inflammation, and you can have central nervous system inflammation. And that would be something that would bring you to medical attention very quickly.

NK: There's been a vaccine for dogs, a lyme disease vaccine, for a long time. Why has it taken so long to just even to get to this phase of developing one for people?

JL: The lyme vaccine for dogs is actually similar to the one that's being developed for humans. The rigour and standards of vaccine development are inordinately higher for humans than they are for animals. And so, the stage that this vaccine, the project that we're doing here in Halifax and other 124 sites around the world, has been in development for a number of years. So, there were smaller studies that we call Phase 1 and Phase 2, and this is actually a larger study to see if the vaccine does protect against infection. So, it takes a long time, it takes a lot of effort and money to get a vaccine through all the rigorous safety and evaluation of immunogenicity. So, does it evoke an immune response, and does that immune response protect you from infection?

NK: It's important to mention the rigour that you were talking about there. We are living in a time where there is a lot of anti-vax sentiment, as you know, for established ones, as we've been doing a lot coverage, of course, on the measles outbreak in Ontario and elsewhere, and vaccine hesitancy on that front. How might that impact the prospects of a new vaccine such as this one when there have been failures in the past, or things haven't gone this far in the past?

JL: Yes, that's a very important point. And it's something that we've incorporated now into our planning for new vaccines. It doesn't matter if you have the most safe, effective vaccine, if people aren't willing to take it. So, that whole social science part of development of medical interventions and vaccines is now increasingly seen as a key part of making sure you're using your efforts wisely and incorporating patient input in the population that it would serve into the development of the product.

NK: What are you hearing from people who've chosen to take part?

JL: So, we couldn't accept all the people that wanted to take a part. We had a lot of big response. So, people are very keen to prevent this illness. And some of them would have had family members that had lyme or have just seen it in their communities and are, we see those volunteers as essential to the whole project of developing a vaccine. And we often will, you know, ask them during the process of a study what they think about it. And their feedback about how the vaccine feels when they get it, is it their arm is sore, do they have any systemic complaints, is part of the data collection for a vaccine trial that is as essential as whether it works or not.

NK: Dr. Langley, I appreciate this. Thank you.

JL: My pleasure. Thanks so much, Nil.

CH: Dr. Joanne Langley is a pediatrician with the Canadian Center for Vaccinology. We reached her in Pictou County.

[sombre instrumental]

Rizzuto Family Crackdown

CH: Early this morning in Quebec, more than 100 officers carried out an operation officials say was one of the most significant in decades -- targeting organized crime. In cities including Montreal, Laval, and Quebec City, they arrested 11 people -- some of whom are suspected to be prominent members of the Montreal Mafia, including presumed leader Leonardo Rizzuto. Police have said five suspects are still at large. Montreal and Quebec police held a press conference this morning. Here's Sureté du Quebec deputy director Benoit Dubé.

SOUNDCLIP

BENOIT DUBÉ: We're giving answers to family. We're doing murder investigation. So, everybody is being arrested today, not on drug traffic, they're being arrested on murders. So, that's the biggest impact I can see. And we've got to look way back to see a case like this who were taking down 16 persons, 16 suspects, all for murder case. That's why it's so significant. And the impact is more than, they're not going to be charged with two years in prison, they are being charged with 25 years in prison. So, that's the impact.

REPORTER: Rizzuto is a name everyone in Quebec knows, maybe known across Canada, too. What is the significance of putting a Rizzuto in handcuffs?

BD: Like I said, Rizzuto is a big name in Montreal, it's been since the 1980s. But when we put somebody in handcuffs, it says Rizzuto, El Zanzo Street Gang, we don't look really at that. We're putting a suspect in handcuff. So, what's the major thing that we're taking down three factions. We're taking down Hell's Angels, we're taking down Italian Mafia, and Street Gang. For me, that's all equal, and we're taking down those three factions. So, that's, for me, that's the success story today.

CH: Sureté du Quebec Deputy Director Benoit Dubé speaking with media earlier today.

[indie rock]

Porcupine Returned

CH: Mackenzie the porcupine has returned to Mackenzie the place. That British Columbia community was the starting point of her unintended journey -- which you may have heard about on As It Happens last week. She was sheltering in the wreckage of a plane as it was being cleared. That wreckage was transported to Kelowna by air, land, and water, and through each phase, Mackenzie was there. After she revealed herself, she was taken in by a local animal rehab centre, which made plans to get her back home. Jayson Biggins heard the story and offered to help. He's the co-owner of Victoria-based Big to the Rescue, an operation that helps transport animals.

SOUNDCLIP

JAYSON BIGGINS: Well, I was actually conducting a rescue transport off to Sechelt to pick up a bald eagle and a fawn and transport them to the mainland. And a friend texted me, and he rarely does, and he said that I needed to call him. And he had heard the news about the porcupine. And he said, you should reach out and see if they need a pilot. And I did. And by the end of the week, I'd flown over to Penticton, and then the adventure began returning Mackenzie to Mackenzie.

SARAH PENTON: Have you ever transported a porcupine before?

JB: I never have and I'm doubtful I ever will again. [both chuckle].

SP: What was she like?

JB: You know, when you're in an airplane, there's a lot of vibration and I think it's kind of soothing for the animal. And it's also contained and covered so they can't see out. And I thought about it afterwards, if she had been transported unknowingly in a helicopter and then in a boat and then on a trailer, you know, all the way down to Kelowna, I think she was used to, you know, bumps and noises and things like that. So, she was fine, not a peep.

SP: Can you imagine what that little animal has been through? Like, that's quite a journey, hey? Like, over 2,000 kilometres.

JB: It's amazing. It's amazing. The most well-travelled and popular porcupine in B.C.'s history, I think.

SP: Speaking about popular, she has a lot of people have been talking about her, hey?

JB: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing how many people have heard the story. You know, other animals people hear about, but because of this one and how it was unintentional and she, you know, got transported so far and then survived the whole journey. And yeah, yeah, it's pretty, and people like to hear something positive like that, too, with all the crazy news going on in the world.

SP: I know. You actually sent me a couple of clips because I understand you had some interactions with air traffic controllers because you went through quite, it's quite a journey to get, obviously, from Penticton up to the Mackenzie area. And I've got a little bit of clip I'm going to play, but can you set it up for us? Because we'll play the clip, but you had some interactions with some air traffic controllers. So, set it up.

JB: Yes. Yeah. Air traffic controllers, most people know they have a very important job, and they are quite serious. And they also speak a particular kind of language, aviation language. It was just such a special moment that I thought I'd reach out to them and let them know what cargo I had. And so, I tried to voice that, you know, within limits of being respectful of the situation, the timing, and everything. And so, a couple of the controllers responded, so.

SP: Okay, let's have a listen.

JB: We are actually transporting the infamous stowaway porcupine that got all the way down to Kelowna. We're taking it back to Mackenzie.

CONTROLLER: I'm not familiar with that. That's real?

JB: Yeah.

CONTROLLER: An escaped porcupine?

JB: Yeah, I don't know if you heard. It was all over the news, it's in Mackenzie, it was in a plane wreck that got hauled out and then put on a flatbed and taken to Kelowna before they found the porcupine down there, seriously.

CONTROLLER #2: Well, that's awesome. Well, you're doing important work.

JB: Great, thanks.

CONTROLLER: I just watched a little video about the porcupine. Get that guy home safe.

JB: I know, it's great, hey? Will do, will do.

CONTROLLER: Roger, good day.

JB: Cheers, you as well.

CH: Jayson Biggins speaking with air traffic control as he transports a porcupine to Mackenzie, B.C. Mr. Biggins spoke to Sarah Penton, host of Radio West, yesterday.

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Montreal Formula 1

Guest: Alain Creton

CH: Embarras. Catastrophe. Fiasco. Those are not the words a city wants to hear after hosting a major sporting event. But they're just some of the critical reactions to last year's Formula 1 Grand Prix race in Montreal. Some of the failures were out of anyone's control -- including the terrible weather that flooded the car paddocks at the track. But the race was also beset by bad organization, an overzealous bylaw enforcement, transit delays -- and, of course, construction. But all levels of government and race organizers are promising that this weekend's race will be different. Alain Creton runs Chez Alexandre restaurant and is the president of the Peel Street merchants' association. We reached him in Montreal.

NK: Alain, at this point, are you feeling the energy of the upcoming race weekend? Are you excited?

ALAIN CRETON: No, we are very exciting. I was going through a few hotels and they said they're going to be full. All the hotels of Montreal are going to full. So, I'm very, very pleased. And we're going to have a lot of people, especially, you know, right downtown on Peel Street. We are really around all the major hotels of Montréal. Also, what's happening on Peal Street, we have, you know, these beautiful Mont Blanc, you they sell pens and purse for ladies, and Mont Blanc is going to have a pen made by Ferrari. It's 20 years ago, and it's going to be sell for $42,000.

NK: Oh, just a steal, my goodness. [laughing]

AC: Yeah! So, that's going to be the main attraction in corner of Peel and Maison Lapierre.

NK: So, this is an exciting time for race fans, certainly, but as a business owner, it's also a really lucrative time. Lots of energy in the city, but lots of money too, clearly. What kind of a difference does a weekend like this make for your business?

AC: Well, for my business, you know, we are a beautiful French brasserie restaurant, like in Paris, and we've been in business for close to 15 years. And it's going to bring me around $150,000 more business than a regular business, you see?

NK: So, this is a high-stakes weekend for a lot of people, a lot riding on it.

AC: For everybody in Montreal.

NK: Yeah. But last year, as you know very well, and as our listeners heard, things did not go as well as everyone wanted them to go, particularly businesses. Are you, were you worried about this year, given what happened?

AC: No, no, this year is going to be okay because one month ago, the fire department, the city of Montreal, and the police of Montreal, they were all here on Peel Street, not only on Peel street, but a few other streets and a few others hotels to find out where we're going to place the tent. And if the tents are not too close to the building. So, they were really helpful, you know, because last year was a mess. And it was very, very, phew. Everybody was more than upset. So this year, everybody looks like they all work together, all nicely, smiling, and say we won't have any problem, we want you to be safe, and no.

NK: What happened to you and your business last year that you wanted to make sure did not happen again?

AC: Well, what happened last year, just because we were, I mean, it looked like ridiculous when we explained that, but we were just one feet too close to the building, one feet too close. So definitely, it was like surprising and stupid and whatever we say, but it, and also, you know, not only they're coming during the Grand Prix, but they coming on Friday night at 10 o'clock, the terrace was full. And they say everybody has to get out.

NK: You had to shut down your tents on the terrace?

AC: Exactly. And we cannot even place them inside because we were full inside.

NK: How did customers react?

AC: Oh, some of them were more than furious, and we had to calm them down. But, of course, we didn't make them pay. So, not only we lose customers, but we lose the money by people who were already almost finishing the meal. You know, we cannot serve them. We cannot charge for it anyway.

NK: So things, as you said, seem to be better this year, better communication, better energy from officials, but there are realities. Montreal's infamous construction, but also the transit issues. I think the job action will be paused for the weekend, but still, are you worried?

AC: No, I'm not worried because it was the press conference, and the person who are responsible, they were all together, even the people from Formula 1, and they say won't be any, I mean, every problem they have last year won't happen this year, because they make everything to be very easy for everybody, you know? So, they learn the hard way, and we learn it too. So definitely, every problem that happened want up and this is definitely not.

NK: Yeah, we know Montreal used to be the only North American race on the calendar. There's a lot of competition now, so how do you feel about suggestions that Montreal might lose this event?

AC: I'm worried like anybody else. We have to, definitely, we have to show them something very special, then Montreal is the place to be. But we're worried, definitely we are.

NK: And what about Montrealers who don't love this race, and the noise, and how hard it is to get reservations?

AC: [chuckle] No, no, everybody loved it. I mean, maybe a few people, definitely, you cannot please everyone, [NK chuckles] but a few of the people who were bidding and they didn't care about the race. And a lot of people care about it because we cannot even have tickets to go to see the race now, it's all full. So, definitely, it's very popular.

NK: If you were speaking to organizers about why it should stay in Montreal, if they are considering dropping the city from the lineup, what would you say to them to stay?

AC: I will tell them we've been together since 1978. And we always welcome the people from the Grand Prix. We improve, we increase the facility for everybody. I was there at the beginning, I was the first one to close the street to have car exposition. And Montreal, it's a very, as you know very well, Montreal is a welcoming city. Even all my friends from Toronto, like a few years ago when people were not travelling, we receive a lot of friends from all over Canada. And people from Alberta, Columbia, Toronto, everybody says, well, because we love Montreal. We love Montreal. And they love Montreal, why? Because we speak French, we speak English, we speak Spanish, we speak Italian, Greek. And it's a very nice mix. And people in Montreal are very friendly, even the driver, and they love the vibe of the Grand Prix in Montreal.

NK: Alain, a pleasure speaking with you, thank you.

AC: Pleasure, mon ami. Thank you.

CH: Alain Creton runs Chez Alexandre restaurant, and is the president of the Peel Street merchants' association. He's in Montreal.

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Part 3: Saskatchewan Ombudsman, Axolotl Limb Study

FOA: Jack Troake obit

CH: Jack Troake was known for having a great sense of humour. Except when it came to the seal hunt. The veteran sealer from Twillingate was a fierce advocate for the hunt in Newfoundland and Labrador. For decades, he faced off against protest groups, arguing for the importance of seals for the livelihood of his community. Mr. Troake died last week. He was 88. In 2009, the European parliament voted to ban the trade of seal products. So we called Jack Troake to get his reaction.

SOUNDCLIP

JACK TROAKE: We're a coastal people; we make our living from the sea, and no different than our buddies up north. You know, I do know how these people make their livelihood, because I spent a lot of years up there. And there is a lot, a very sad fishermen, because we've got other things going on too right now. Our crab pastry is in shambles, we've 150 miles of ice sitting off the coast. So right now, man, we haven't got a hell of a lot going for us, I tell you. Well, my first initiation to commercial seal hunt came in the Gulf of St. Lawrence in 1951. And I had a lot of dealings with these protest groups. I've been spit on. I've been called every conceivable thing that you can call a human being. You know, and this is sad. And being let down so much with our own government, that's what amazes me. You know, that's what breaks my heart. That's the reason why today, the maple leaf on my flagpole is flying bottom up at half-mast. That's a very sad day to be let down by our own country.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Troake, you don't have much faith in the Canadian government. You feel it's let you down over these years. Do you think that Stephen Harper will do anything in Europe? He's there to launch free trade talks with the European Union. Do you see a possibility there?

JT: Uh, no ma'am. No, I can't see our prime minister doing anything as it relates to the ban. He's not going to upset the avant garde, these EU countries, just for a few stinky sealers here in Eastern Canada. You know, if they had any intention of doing something like that, they would have done something 10 or 15 years ago, before it got so far advanced where we are now, you know? This is the sad part about this, you know, this is the reason why, since this started, I'm no longer a Canadian. I will never, ever honour the maple leaf. He's flying like I told you before, bottom-up, half-mast on my flagstaff.

CO: You actually have your flag, Canadian flag, upside down, halfway down the flagpole?

JT: Yes, I do there. At mass, bottom up.

CO: Did you do that just today?

JT: Yes, dear. I was out this morning at 8 o'clock.

CO: You're not counting on Stephen Harper launching a fight against us at the World Trade Organization, I take it.

JT: No. No. But then again, we're Newfoundlanders, you know, and just another bump in our life. And we'll get over this, we'll overcome. And we're like our Native people up north, they're strong and, you know, they've had lots of obstacles in their lifetime, for sure, to survive up there and they do know that. And we are much the same.

CH: From Our Archives, that was sealer Jack Troake speaking with our former host Carol Off in 2009. Mr. Troake died last week. He was 88.

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Saskatchewan Ombudsman

Guest: Sharon Pratchler

CH: Thousands of wildfire evacuees in Saskatchewan are returning home today. But many thousands more are still living in cars, hotel rooms, or tents. And this week, the province's ombudsman said that many aren't getting the support they need from the government. She called on the province to improve its 24-hour help line, compile a single list of all evacuation sites, and create a plan for people who have lost their homes. We reached Sharon Pratchler in Regina.

NK: Sharon, what kinds of calls have you been getting from evacuees?

SHARON PRATCHLER: A wide range, I actually spent, [coughs] pardon me, my throat is still sore, I actually spent much of last night until about 9:50 talking to people from Creighton. And they were telling me what was happening with them and what their situation was and what they needed, and they are so lovely. They're such lovely people, so we had some really good conversations.

NK: And what are they telling you about what it is exactly that they need right now?

SP: There's a wide range from, you know, people that are retired and have fixed incomes and really need to have access to resources. And so, we're connecting them with SPSA and urging SPSA to make the payments. And that started to happen yesterday, which was great. And so, really, the whole community of Creighton has bounded together to help each other. And so, they are telling me about their personal circumstances, what might be challenging for them in terms of needing reimbursements or some money in their pockets. I think sometimes there is a distinction made between you have people you can stay with and so you are OK. But that, of course, places a financial strain on the people they stay with. So really, it's all about understanding their individual and personal circumstances, and then making sure that even in the midst of a crisis, those individual circumstances are recognized and respected in the response that's given.

NK: What kind of payments are they getting? What are the amounts, the range, we're talking about?

SP: I think there's a couple of different payments and a new one was announced. So, it's really money so they can buy food is the key piece. And whatever, a lot of sort of I just need a toothbrush and toothpaste and those sorts of basic needs, which are also being provided at evacuation centres. But there is such a diversity of location of where people are right now. So, you know, some of them got the call out that you just have to leave and they were all in the same community, but they didn't all end up in the the same place. And so, it very much will vary depending on where they ended up and what they were able to take with them and how much notice they had in terms of what their needs are now.

NK: There's one person in particular you've been communicating with regularly, someone you call your man in the truck.

SP: [chuckling] I actually have to check on him because I haven't talked to him in a little bit because I've been busy talking to Creighton and the area. Yeah, yeah, he's a lovely, lovely person, and I am really careful not to say too much about him because I don't want him to be identified.

NK: Sure.

SP: But one thing you have to understand about people in the north, and you know, it's hard to generalize a whole group of people, but they have the most lovely characteristics. They're very soft-spoken. And what I hear time after time from them is that, sure, if somebody else, there might be somebody else that has a greater need, and if they do, please put them before me. And, I mean, it's just so heartwarming and touching to hear that when they are themselves in, you know, tough situation being away from home and having been evacuated at night. But they care for each other so much, and they're already planning to rebuild and how they're going to do it.

NK: But the fact that you would have to offer your offices potentially for him to sleep in, what should we take away from that in terms of what people are not getting from the province?

SP: I think we may be turning a corner. And so, I used my voice to speak for the people of northern Saskatchewan because they asked me to. It's really important that those voices were heard and that there's some response to it and that we're starting to see people get into a better situation, and starting to see those resources come to them. Because in a situation of crisis where people are traumatized, and I can't overemphasize enough that they are all traumatized, it is so important, the care and concern that are shown. And so, the timing of payment, the messages, the tone of voice that you use with people is so importance.

NK: Premier Scott Moe responded to some of your concerns. We'll play for our listeners a bit of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT MOE: We have worked quickly at times to try to address some of the concerns that have been raised by families that are not in their home and not in their home community. For example, it was a few days ago that we doubled the financial support package that we have provincially, made it retroactive to whatever day that family or those individuals would have evacuated, prioritized a number of cases within the system that we have, and worked alongside the federal government as well.

NK: The premier also said there's going to be one time $500 payment to all evacuees. What you heard there and that payment, is that going far enough to help the people you've spoken to?

SP: So, later today, by invitation from the evacuee community in the particular setting, which involves the Denare Beach people and the Creighton people and the Flin Flon people from both sides of the border, I will be going and they've invited me to come and spend time with them and share a meal with them. And so, I don't know what they'll say, but I guess I'll hear it tonight. And it's really their voice that matters. So, I would ask them or I would ask Grand Chief Hardlotte in terms of, is it enough?

NK: Sharon, I appreciate this, thank you.

SP: Okay. Thank you. Bye.

CH: Sharon Pratchler is Saskatchewan's Ombudsman. We reached her in Regina. As I mentioned, thousands of people who evacuated from La Ronge, Saskatchewan, started to return home today. Mayor Joe Hordyski told the CBC that's a great development -- but there are still lots of mixed feelings in the community.

SOUNDCLIP

JOE HORDYSKI: There's been a lot of emotion out there. People are anxious to get back, and to see the people, the heroes that were left behind, the pets that were just behind. But there's also a little bit of skepticism in terms of, you know, are we ready?

THERESA KLIEM: Let's talk maybe a little, let's start maybe there. What are the conditions like in La Ronge as you're talking with us?

JH: Over the past few days they've been, there's hot spots outside the community that they've been working with choppers and crews. And the fire to the south, they've put in a lot of fire guards. And they've got a massive crew and equipment here, so they're very confident that they can keep the community safe. So, maybe it's, you know, I think given the conditions, the challenges that some of the people down south, the evacuees are having, we felt it was time to bring them home. And, you know, we won't have all our resources in place, particularly the health. You know, we'll have the emergency set up, it won't be 'till tomorrow that pharmacies are opened. But all the services are here. We didn't really lose any of the utilities. We had power was down for less than a day, and that's been restored. Other than that, you know, the grocery shelves are stocked and everything's in place.

TK: Before I let you go, Mayor, I mean, this was, you mentioned it will take a little bit for the town to be back tomorrow, but also the people, what they have been through such a massive evacuation. What kind of help is needed right now to support the people and the community when everyone is coming home, not only in regards to, you know, things, but also mentally in a way?

JH: Well, we're going to be here to support. We're definitely going to have a sign on the road saying, welcome home. And we're glad, you know, happy, happy you're all back. Yeah, it's going to be a very emotional day.

CH: Joe Hordyski is the mayor of La Ronge, Saskatchewan. He was talking to Theresa Kliem on Saskatoon Morning.

[sombre instrumental]

Lebanon Adoptions

CH: Victoria Joumaa is the legal guardian of her three young cousins in Lebanon. But despite five years of effort, she still hasn't been able to adopt them and bring them to live with her in Halifax. A series of bureaucratic hurdles and paperwork problems in Canada and in Lebanon have kept them apart. And Ms. Joumaa is more worried about them than ever. She says 13-year-old Anthony, 12-year-old Charbel, and their sister, 6-year-old Theresa, have suffered from neglect for most of their lives. And in a few weeks, the two boys will "age out" of the orphanage where they've been living. Victoria Joumaa spoke with CBC reporter Kayla Hounsell. Here's part of their conversation:

SOUNDCLIP

VICTORIA JOUMAA: I want to mention before I even started any of this process, I personally asked Anthony, Charbel, and Theresa if they even wanted this. Because there was no way I was moving forward with anything if they did not want to do this either. And, of course, I had to get permission from them and from their parents because I wouldn't be able to do anything if I didn't have that permission. So first, I had talked to Anthony and Charbel. Theresa was only two at the time. So, she couldn't really answer, [laughing] but she was still in there on the call. So, I had gone on the phone with Anthony and Charbel. And I said, listen, guys, I want to say something to you. And just hear me out. And I want know what you think. And I said, I know you guys are going through a hard time. I know you guys have had a hard life, and it's never been easy for you. And I love you with all my heart. And I just just telling them how much I love them and how much I appreciated them. And I told them, because I was also very nervous telling them, I told him, I wanna have the opportunity to adopt you guys and bring you to Canada to live with me. And without hesitation, they just said, yes, yes. And with very enthusiastic and excited, they're like, yes please, please, please can you take us? Can you come take us now? Like, they were just excited, over the moon. That's all they wanted.

KAYLA HOUNSELL: And that was five years ago?

VJ: Yes.

KH: Do you think they understand why they've been waiting for five years?

VJ: They have asked why, what's taking so long? And I'm trying to explain to them like, like in the beginning, it's like, I just submitted the paperwork, we have to wait. And then, their rejection came. And throughout the five years that I've been doing this, time has been getting shorter and shorter and shorter, not only because of the boys getting kicked out of the orphanage, but they just experienced a war not even six months ago, and they were in the middle of that. And I was also trying to bring them in that because I thought I could at least bring them in the Middle of War. We would call them almost every day. And we could hear the bombs going off in the background. Anthony and Charbel would call us in the middle of the night crying, scared. We'd just stay on the phone with them in silence, but for them just having that comfort there of knowing we were there for them, I guess that's all they needed in some of those moments. But unfortunately, we had applied to the wrong visa to try to get them here, we applied for a visitor visa. And when we applied for visitor visa, we got the refusal that they have no ties to go back to Lebanon. So, that's why they couldn't be accepted to come here. We just wanna bring our kids home. That's it, that's all we want. We don't want anything else.

CH: Victoria Joumaa talking to CBC reporter Kayla Hounsell. The federal minister of immigration declined to speak to CBC, citing privacy reasons.

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Axolotl Limb Study

Guest: James Monaghan

CH: If you have children of a certain age, then you know all about axolotls: the extremely cute salamanders that look like cartoon characters, which have exploded in popularity in recent years. As it turns out, the creatures aren't simply experts at being adorable. They're also experts on regrowth -- with an uncanny ability to regenerate their own limbs. And now, a new study has revealed details about that process -- and the findings could have implications for human health as well. James Monaghan is a professor of biology at Northeastern University and the study's senior author. We reached him in Boston.

NK: Professor, how do you rate the ability of axolotls to regenerating limbs? What grade?

JAMES MONAGHAN: I'd say axolotls are probably the best out of anything with an arm.

NK: The best. No question?

JM: I'd say no question among vertebrates [NK chuckles] and tetrapods. So anything with hands, they can grow them back pretty readily and pretty quickly.

NK: It's pretty fascinating whether you're a scientist or not, but from a scientific perspective and your personal perspective, what is it that fascinates you most about that ability?

JM: You know, I was blown away when I started studying this topic 20-plus years ago that an animal that's over a foot long can lose part of its tail or part of it's arm and regrow that structure and then integrate into the existing system of the animal and just reuse that arm that was once missing. So, that's, I mean, fascinated everyone from Aristotle to now. It's pretty incredible.

NK: And specifically, you looked at axolotls that had been genetically engineered to glow in the dark. That's what you were working with for your study. Why did you use those in particular?

JM: So, we use genetically modified axolotls as a readout of whether the particular pathway that we're studying, which in this case is retinoic acid, is active. So a colleague of mine, Dr. Murawalla, MDI Biological Labs, provided these glow-in-the-dark salamanders that turn green whenever this signalling pathway called retinoic acid signalling turns on. And we can use this genetically modified salamander to say is it on during normal regeneration? And is it when we perturb the system? We found that when we perturbed the system and we activate retinoac acid we had a whole arm grow out where normally a hand should just grow out.

NK: Wow! And as you're watching that happen, how are you, are you saying wow like the rest of us? Or what's your reaction?

JM: Oh no, we were [chuckling] blown away. I remember the lead author on the study, Dr. Timothy Dewar, came into my office and said, you know, I just added this one drug that inhibits these CYP26 enzymes that we identified and it completely duplicated the entire arm. I was absolutely blown away. I said, this is huge. We had a discussion of, wait, how big is this? This really tells us how much the arm is going to grow back. This one mechanism says are you going to go back a hand or are you go back an entire arm?

NK: To be able to do this though, you had to cut off the limbs of the axolotls you were using. I think a lot of people will wince at the very least to hear that. How did you go about that to limit, as much as you could, the harm you were doing to them?

JM: Yes, I can find it completely understandable to understand that we really appreciate what these animals have done for us and what these animals have done, hopefully, for the future of medicine. They are anaesthetized when the animals have their arms amputated. They then wake up and they kind of act like the arm is still there. They hit it against the side of the container. They wake up to eat right away. And it's thought that possibly they don't have these chronic pains that would happen if you and I have our have our arm amputated for example. And then, they regenerate very quickly. So, they'll close the wound off and then they grow it back within a couple of weeks. So, we try to minimize the number of animals we have careful oversight to make sure that any, uh, the minimal harm is done, and then they're continuously checked for health throughout the process.

NK: And so, obviously, people hear about this kind of research and they wonder, well, what about, what kind of implications for humans? What could it mean?

JM: Yeah, this is a really exciting topic. I think there's this convergence of fundamental knowledge in biology and technology that enable the ability to maybe change the direction of an injury from scarring towards regeneration. Salamanders most likely do not have some super silver bullet gene that makes them regenerate. And the difference between a human, which an injury leads to a program of scarring and an axolotl that leads to the program of regeneration is just the changing of turning on and turning off the appropriate genes at the right time. So, I think, this idea of engineering a human injury towards the regeneration program is within the grasps. If we understand how these axolotls can do it.

NK: Much more research to go.

JM: There is more research to go. And honest, our research is just a piece of the puzzle.

NK: This is, I think, the second conversation about axolotls I've had just in the last few months, certainly in the past season, and we've had many more, as I understand it, on the program, in recent years at least. Are axolotls having a kind of a moment? What's going on?

JM: [chuckling] Yeah, I even remember the title of my thesis talk, my PhD was Regeneration of a Regeneration Model. And what I mean by this is the axolotl has been studied for 200 years, and no one really knew what they were maybe 20 years ago when I started studying this. It became a model in laboratories, and then, you know, they're really charismatic. They've got these external gills, they've got a continuous smile.

NK: That smile. [laughing]

JM: And then they made it, yeah, that smile. And then, they made it into Minecraft and Roblox and all the little kids then really gravitated towards it. Now, you see it, you know, everywhere.

NK: The axolotl lobby is working really hard.

JM: Yeah, that's right. I don't know who they are, but wow, they are doing a great job of making plushies.

NK: [chuckling] They are pretty cute and fascinating, as we've said, Professor. I'm glad we could speak about them, yet again, and I'm sure we will again. Thank you for this.

JM: No, I really appreciate you having me on the show.

CH: James Monaghan is a biologist at Northeastern University in Boston. That's where we reached him.

[pop]

FOA: Rat Free Alberta

CH: The Florida Panthers hockey club has two mascots. And in real life, they would not be friends. One is a smiling, svelte wild cat named Stanley C. Panther. The other, Viktor E. Rat. A rat. The rat thing started, apparently, in 1995 when -- legend has it -- Scott Mellanby slapshotted a rat to death in the team's dressing room. And you can see why they'd want to commemorate that. Well, tonight the Panthers will play Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Finals against the Edmonton Oilers -- who hail from a province that has long been proud of its "rat-free" status. And that disdain for the rodent has now extended to the team with the rodent mascot. This week, Lauren Kyle McDavid -- wife of Oilers star Connor McDavid -- posted a screenshot of an AI-generated response to the question "Why is Alberta rat-free." Pointed! But is the province actually "rat-free"? In 2023, we interviewed Alberta's rat and pest specialist Karen Wickerson about an infestation at two Calgary recycling facilities. Here is that interview, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN WICKERSON: Well, we are still maintaining our rat-free status. And what that means is that we don't allow rats to permanently establish in the province. Rats do get into the province. I can't inspect every vehicle coming into the province along the highway. But when they are discovered in Alberta, we work to permanently eradicate them.

NK: Is this the worst you've seen in a long time?

KW: Yeah, I've been in this position for four years. So, definitely, it's, these are the biggest infestations I've had to deal with. The other probably most common infestation that people would be aware of was in 2012 at the Medicine Hat Landfill, and that took two years to eradicate.

NK: Have you seen them?

KW: On a couple of occasions, yes.

NK: How many are there? I mean, ballpark or how many have you killed?

KW: You know, it's really hard to put a number on it. We just go on reports from the staff working within the facility. And then, the bait consumption.

NK: So, since the 1950s, Alberta has had protocols in place to make it rat-free as much as possible. What is the secret in the province?

KW: Yeah. You know, the biggest secret [NK chuckles] is that we started right when rats got to the border. The program was established, and we have legislation in place that states that every Albertan is responsible for controlling them because they are declared a pest in Alberta. So, we're lucky. Also, we still do patrol the Alberta-Saskatchewan border. And, in fact, the first eight kilometres westward from the border, from Cold Lake all the way down to Montana, twice yearly. So, you know, in the spring and fall.

CH: From 2023, that was Nil speaking to Alberta rat and pest specialist Karen Wickerson, From Our Archives.

The AIH Transcript For June 12, 2025

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