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The AIH transcript for June 4, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Testing their metal. A union president echoes the call of Ontario's premier to hit back against U.S. President Donald Trump's doubling of tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel.

CH: Stealing their thunderousness. Montrealers were upset when a beloved music venue shut down last year after a noise complaint. So officials passed a new bylaw -- but one owner says it won't protect venues like his from a similar fate.

NK: AI Yi Yi! We'll hear from a State Senator in California who is pushing to establish new guardrails for AI -- if the Trump Administration doesn't ban him from doing it first.

CH: Sign-off of the times. After almost 70 years, Medicine Hat, Alberta's CHAT-TV has faded to black -- and the channel's news anchor tells us he's heartbroken.

NK: He wants to put the "stan" in "Stanley Cup". Game 1 is tonight, so obviously we're checking in with Oilers superfan -- Superfan Magoo -- who says there's magic in the air and on the ice. And he insists his team is ready to bring the cup back to Canada. Knock wood. [knocks on table] Don't skip that part. You’re not knocking, Chris.

CH: I’m sorry. Okay [knocks on something] That wasn’t wood. [NK chuckles] And...bleep bloop -- emphasis on "bleep". Scientists delve into the question of whether we'd like robots more if they swore -- and discover a fascinating cuss and effect.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday Edition. Radio that warns you: the results are not cut and droid.

[theme]

Part 1: Tariff Support, California AI Rules, Oilers Superfan

Tariff Support

Guest: Lana Payne

CH: Ontario Premier Doug Ford says it's time to hit back against President Trump's latest tariff hikes -- and hard.

SOUNDCLIP

DOUG FORD: We can't sit back and let President Trump steamroll us, try to shut down our steel industry, take jobs down to the U.S. He has no regard whatsoever for jobs here in Ontario. And we need to slap another 25 per cent tariffs on the steel that's coming into Ontario and Canada as a whole.

CH: Today, the U.S. president followed through on his threat to double tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel -- from 25 to 50 per cent. Prime Minister Carney wouldn't commit to retaliation today, but said he's in, quote, "intensive discussions" with the U.S. to quash the increased tariffs. Canada is the top exporter of the metals to the U.S., and tariffs have already led to job losses and a drop in shipments. Lana Payne is the president of Canada's largest private sector union, UNIFOR. We reached her in Toronto.

NK: Lana Payne, you are asking for immediate countermeasures against these tariffs from the U.S. What specifically would you like to see happen?

NK: What do you make of that rationale?

LP: Yeah, I mean, I don't envy the federal government in this moment sitting and having negotiations back and forth with a partner that basically isn't playing by any rules whatsoever. And that's what we're dealing with, which is why we have to be firm, we have to be strong, and we have to protect Canadian jobs and Canadian industries in that process. We can also look at things like temporarily halting exports of metals to the United States. If the United States is basically saying to us right now, we're putting 50 per cent tariffs on you because we believe we don't need your steel and aluminum, then don't give it to them. I mean, the reality is that we have to find a way that we can push this to a place where they understand that we are also going to be very serious here about, you know, protecting our industries and our jobs. And The U.S. needs our aluminum and our steel. They can't build things without it.

NK: What would it mean, though, Lana, for your workers if we didn't send it there? It has to go somewhere, right?

LP: Yeah. I mean, the reality is, though, that we're at a place right now where with a 50 per cent tariff on steel and aluminum, you'd be hard-pressed to think that we can export anything to the U.S. at this moment, at that cost. So, we can look at things as probably trying to stock, keep things flowing, keep workers working, and potentially stockpile a reserve of these metals. That could be something that we could do. There are any number of things, and I just would say to the Canadian government right now, we have to consider all of them. That is the kind of moment we're in. And it's really outrageous that you would be in the middle of trying to negotiate your way out of this, and that the party you're negotiating with would take these tactics.

NK: Do you worry that retaliatory tariffs would inflame things even more and lead the U.S. to bring in even more punitive measures?

LP: I guess the reality is, though, if we don't do something, we risk losing these industries -- potentially forever. This is the problem we're in right now. And yes, we are going to use more steel and aluminum in Canada given the fact that we have the leaders of our country, the premiers, the prime minister, talking about nation building projects, but they won't start overnight. And we have to deal and save these workers and these jobs today.

NK: The Conservatives, as you may have seen, say there needs to be an emergency debate on these 50 per cent tariffs from the U.S. to help protect workers. And they're pointing the finger at the Carney government saying, you know, that things are only getting worse. Do you agree with this?

LP: I mean, the reality is that Prime Minister Carney cannot control Donald Trump. Nobody can at this point. What I think would be beneficial is that the Carney government is absolutely speaking and having a conversation with unions, with industry, around how we deal with this going forward. Because this is stepping up the attack on Canada. There is no doubt about it that this is a major increase in aggression from the United States. When, in fact, we have not been aggressive in the last number of weeks. We have actually been working to try to have negotiations, to get a deal, and here we are with this kind of attack on Canada again. So, I do think it's important for the government to be speaking to stakeholders and to have a cohesive strategy going forward. And there's going to be many things happening in the days and weeks ahead, as corporations make decisions based on this policy from the United States

NK: We're going to take some time, not a long time. What is that timetable for you? What is too long for you before your members really start feeling it?

LP: I think that if you're working in the steel industry right now, you're going to feel the impact very quickly. The aluminum industry, more complicated, but there will be an impact there. The other industries will look at this in terms of how their costs to build things, whether it's aircraft, whether it is vehicles, are going to go up based on these tariffs. So, they will start making new decisions. We don't have a lot of time here in terms of how they respond to what it is the president has determined now. So, I would say the government's going to have to move fairly quickly here -- within days, not weeks.

NK: Lana, I appreciate this. Please, take care.

LP: Thank you very much.

CH: Lana Payne is the president of the union UNIFOR. We reached her in Toronto.

[electronic]

California AI Rules

Guest: Steve Padilla

CH: Yesterday on As It Happens, Nil spoke to Yoshua Bengio -- the Turing Prize-winning computer scientist, who's referred to as one of the godfathers of Artificial Intelligence. And as godfather, he's trying to impose some discipline on his godchild: as he told us yesterday, Mr. Bengio has launched a non-profit aimed at making AI systems safer and more honest -- especially as countries, including the U.S., face pressure to stay ahead of the pack in the global AI landscape.

SOUNDCLIP

YOSHUA BENGIO: In the U.S., it's been very clearly expressed that there's a concern that if the U.S. doesn't win the race against China to reach a AGI, or super-intelligent AI, that AI may be used against us. And so, you know, it is a rational concern. But you also have to put in the balance that if we're not careful, we could create the monster that we're trying to avoid in the first place ourselves.

CH: The Trump Administration is pursuing an aggressive strategy for American AI dominance. It includes banning states from enacting their own AI regulations for the next 10 years -- through a new provision tucked into the so-called "Big Beautiful" budget bill. That flies in the face of what happened in the California State Senate yesterday -- where new AI legislation passed its first hurdle to becoming law. It would govern how chatbots interact with people who are struggling with loneliness or mental health issues -- and how the technology can be employed to make decisions about individuals, in cases like loan or job applications. California State Senator Steve Padilla authored the new bill. We reached him at the California State Legislature in Sacramento today.

NK: Senator, your AI regulations are on their way to becoming law in California, but are you worried that all of that work that you've done with others could be undone if the Trump administration is able to enact the 10-year ban on AI regulation at the state level that they're pushing for?

STEVE PADILLA: Well, absolutely. I'm deeply concerned about what could be a potentially incredibly irresponsible, and dare I say, not well-thought-out or even stupid move on the part of the federal government.

NK: There are supporters of this kind of legislation freeze at the state level who argue it would prevent a patchwork of different laws in different states that could make it hard potentially for businesses working across state lines. One Republican congressman has said, quote, AI doesn't understand state borders, unquote. What do you say to that argument, that regulation being consistent across the country would be more effective and powerful?

SP: Well, I would say that that's really intellectually dishonest and inconsistent. You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that it's the panacea of the future around ingenuity, getting ahead globally on the deployment of this and, you know, technology in all of its potential, and argue that it's so valuable and so advanced that no guardrails, no consumer protection, should be present. And at the same time, argue that it's not sophisticated enough that it could be disrupted by guardrails in any given state, never mind the largest, most populous state in the United States. I think it's really without any merit.

NK: And in terms of innovation, but also those who argue this is a national security issue, you know, keeping up with the pace of what China and others are doing, that the U.S. needs to do whatever it can. What do you say to that argument?

SP: I reject the premise. It's false. And they're essentially arguing that we can't walk and chew gum. When the auto industry, for example, in the United States argued against putting seat belts in vehicles, or putting airbags in vehicles, or other safety features. Did the industry stop advancing? Did it stop evolving? Did it stop creating new and better products? Absolutely not. Did it save lives? Absolutely, it did. So again, I think that that argument is just specious, and I think it's completely without merit, and I think we need to get back to being serious about protecting people. And they're arguing out of both sides of their mouth. They can't have it both ways.

NK: Why do you think the administration is putting up these obstacles for states to regulate AI? If it's none of those things, why do you think they're doing it?

SP: And the answer is the same old one, and it's simple: money. I mean, you know, there is certainly an upside here to the benefits of this incredible technology if it is appropriately managed, if it is appropriately and reasonably regulated. But obviously, it also has a tremendous financial upside. And the closer people see that potential, the more, unfortunately, some folks who aren't as responsible as others are going to focus on that and not on the public benefit.

NK: Back to what your bill is about, it would remind users of what exactly they're dealing with, right?

SP: Yes, you'd have to establish a protocol on how to deal with folks who are utilizing that algorithm and are thinking some pretty scary things, or articulating those electronically very scary ideas, and make sure you have that resource available to folks. It would remind users that they are, in fact, talking to a chatbot and not to a human being. There's, throughout the United States at least, a number of very, very disturbing examples of folks having conversations with these companion chatbots, and having some very disturbing outcomes. You know, minors talking with the chatbot saying they're bored. And the chatbot saying, well, you know, why don't you expose a couple of prongs in a power outlet and stick a penny in those prongs to give yourself a little jolt. Literally, chatbots have suggested people jump out the window and take their own lives. There are cases, I had the mother of a young man who was slightly on the spectrum who was in a, quote-unquote, relationship with a companion chatbot in Florida. That did not go well in terms of the conversation, and he ended up committing suicide. And now, there's litigation. She came out to California and testified on behalf of our bill in committee. It was very emotional and disturbing.

NK: The bill would also require the operators of these platforms to report the number of times one of these chatbots brought up suicidal ideation. They would also have to put up messages that show users where they can get help if they're having those kinds of thoughts.

SP: Absolutely.

NK: In California, as well, though -- as you well know -- Gavin Newsom, the Democratic governor there, vetoed state legislation that would have required a kill switch for AI technology if it were to go rogue. Are you sensing that these might be blocked as well by the governor, or is there support there?

SP: Well, we're going to continue to build support across the board. I think there are those in the development side of this industry that are responsible, that want to be responsible, that want to see reasonable, you know, achievable guardrails that protect the most vulnerable. It's in no one's interest, industry, government, society as a whole, certainly, to not appropriately put guardrails in place. It's just not. I mean, no matter how you look at this, it is not in anyone's interest to fail to do that. The downsides are too great when looking at how powerful this technology could be.

NK: And if the administration gets its way in terms of banning states from regulating AI, what are your next steps there?

SP: Well, I think those of us in California, you know, the nation's most populous state, we have an outsized ability to impact, I think, certain dynamics both throughout the U.S. and globally. But we will use every tool to address that if it comes -- including litigation.

NK: Senator, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

SP: Thank you for your interest in this story, and I appreciate you making the time.

CH: State Senator Steve Padilla in Sacramento, at the California State Legislature.

[winding instrumental]

Oilers Superfan

Guest: Blair Gladue

CH: Stanley Cup Finals. Edmonton Oilers vs. Florida Panthers. As the players hit the ice tonight, it might feel like déjà vu. Not that you need a reminder, but the same two teams faced off in the finals last year. And that series ended in a heartbreaking Game 7 loss for the Oilers. But Oilers fans are convinced this year will be different. None more so than Oilers fanatic "Superfan Magoo" -- aka Blair Gladue. We talked to him during last year's series. And we reached him again today in Edmonton.

NK: Superfan Magoo, we were talking to you last year. It was right in the middle of the series. Things were tense, things were exciting. How are you feeling tonight?

BLAIR GLADUE: I'm feeling very anxious, a little stressed, but also, I'm feeling so overwhelmed with confidence. This is our year. [NK chuckles] I think we got it.

NK: That's a scary thing to say. Are you sure you wanna do that?

BG: Yeah, it is a very scary thing to say. But you must lose to win. And last year, we lost. This year, the boys know what it takes to win, so we're gonna get 'er done. Knock on wood. [knocking on wood] Always knock on wood whenever you do that.

NK: [chuckling] I just did. I don't know if you heard it? I'm doing everything I can, certainly, to help "Canada's Team", as many have called it. Does it feel, Superfan Magoo, different, I mean, than it did last year? That it's just, is there more at stake?

BG: Oh, it feels so much different. You can feel it in the air. There's something in the air that is totally different from last year's finals. This is our back-to-back final, but last year, it feels a lot different than it does.

NK: How different? How so, yeah?

BG: The reason being: we have home ice advantage. The first two games are gonna' be in Edmonton, so I'm gonna blow the roof off before the players even step on the ice tonight.

NK: And beyond that home ice advantage, what else has ratcheted up the tension and the stakes for you?

BG: Our veteran leadership; the players we've signed. And I know there's players we got rid of, some young talent, but we signed some great players that know what it takes to get 'er done. We've signed the size, the speed, the grit, and that's what you need to win a Stanley Cup. And our goal-tending and defence is much better than last year.

NK: All good things, all good things. What did you learn as a fan last year?

BG: Well, what I've learned as a fan from last year is don't stop believing, don't give up on your team, and just keep cheering loud and proud. And that's exactly what we're doing.

NK: Did you feel that way after Game 7 last year?

BG: After Game 7, I felt crushed, just like every other fan. We felt hurt, we felt crushed. But like Hyman said after Game 7, we'll be back here. We'll be back in this same spot next year, and here we are. Let's go.

NK: [chuckle] They certainly have a lot to prove, and a lot of people counting on them, maybe even more than before, given what's been happening with the United States and all that kind of talk and the elbows up. Do you think that that's making things more exciting?

BG: Absolutely, it's making things more exciting. And everybody's feeding off each other. The players are feeding off one another. Yeah, you could just feel it. You could feel it, there's something magical in the air, and it's happening this year.

NK: I spoke last night to a bar manager who is not an Oilers fan and cannot, hoping for seven games in the series, and is actually kind of rooting, not kind of, is rooting for the Panthers. What do you say to those who just cannot, he's in Calgary, in case that wasn't clear. What do you say to those who just cannot bring themselves to root for your team?

BG: What I have to say for those so-called fans out there is, man, you stay where you got to stay. You cheer for who you got to cheer for. Guaranteed, probably 90 per cent of Canada is cheering for the Edmonton Oilers. So, it don't really bother, it don't really bother us. Any negativity out there, man, we turn that into positivity, and we just keep cheering loud and proud. And it don't matter who you are, where you come from, this is Canada's team. We're gonna bring it back to Canada, Lord Stanley, where it belongs. In Canada, baby. Let's go.

NK: [chuckling] I know we're catching you just before you start getting ready for the game tonight. We've talked about your get-ups, your costumes in the past, your commitment on all levels to this team. But getting ready tonight, what is that process like? What does it entail?

BG: So, what it takes is I wake up first thing in the morning, 6 a.m. I have my Timmies; I have two large steeped teas. After that, I turn on the music; I listen to the '80s. Then I grab the ironing board, plug it in, iron my outfit, drink my teas, have my breakfast. After that, I go get ready. I go downtown, go above Roger's Place, 30th floor, get my face painted, get all ready, and then I'm gonna go down, meet the players, and get them pumped up for tonight's game.

NK: Game day rituals just like the players themselves.

BG: That's right.

NK: How long does the face painting take? Help me visualize what it's going to look like when it's done.

BG: So, it takes about an hour to get my face painted. I've got to make sure it's on fleek. And, you know, Superfan Magoo has a lot, a lot to get done when it comes to game days, man. I got to talk to the radios, the TVs, the cameras.

NK: It's a tough life, yeah.

BG: Man, you got to be ready. You got to know what to say. You got be prepared for any kind of questions, even some silly questions sometimes, but you got stay positive and just keep spreading that love. And that's what Superfan Magoo is.

NK: No silly questions here, I hope.

BG: Nope.

NK: [laughing] All serious ones.

BG: Not so far, anyway.

NK: Thank you. And you mentioned the '80s music. What is a must on that playlist for you?

BG: A must on that playlist is Eddie Murphy, Party All The Time, and Styx, Too Much Time On My Hands.

NK: [laughing] Superfan Magoo, always a pleasure. Thank you

BG: Thank you for having me. [shouting] Superfan Magoo loves you. Let's go Oilers! [NK chuckles]

CH: "Superfan Magoo" -- aka Blair Gladue -- is an Edmonton Oilers superfan. We reached him in Edmonton, before tonight's game.

[electronic]

Robot Swearing

SOUNDCLIP

[a montage of C3PO from Star Wars with several words bleeped out, set to the Star Wars Theme by John Williams]

CH: Comically doctored remarks by C-3PO from the Star Wars movies. Which raise the question: would we feel differently about robots if they cursed like sailors? And that raises the question: do sailors really curse that much? I'm already off-topic, but sailors, let us know. Just try to keep it clean. Back to my point: many is the time we have all wondered whether we'd like our Roomba more if it could yell "could someone move the stupid ottoman?" but with a lot of swearing. And many is the time we've stopped wondering. But Naomi Fitter and her team at Oregon State University never stopped. And now, they have some answers. First, they showed people videos in which a robot knocked over a cup and responded in one of three ways. First, by not saying anything.

SOUNDCLIP

[a cup is knocked over, silence]

CH: Then, by uttering what the team refers to as a "non-expletive verbal declaration".

SOUNDCLIP

[a cup is knocked over, a robotic voice says “oops”]

CH: And finally, by uttering an "expletive verbal declaration".

SOUNDCLIP

[a cup is knocked over, a robotic voice says a term that is bleeped out]

CH: It turns out people weren't especially bothered by the robot's ferocious anger, or by the swearing. They preferred the non-expletive verbal declarations -- but they found the swearing robots to be the most relatable, not to mention the funniest. The researchers point out that robots will become more common, and those robots will make mistakes. As Ms. Fitter writes, quote, "Fundamentally, our work shows that people prefer robots that notice when a mistake has occurred and react to this error in a relatable way." Unquote. So, robot designers who haven't included profanity in your creations: it's time for a shift in your thinking. In fact it's time for you to realize you're in deep shift.

[hip-hop]

Part 2: Montreal Venue Bylaw, Medicine Hat’s CHAT-TV

Montreal Venue Bylaw

Guest: Sergio Da Silva

CH: Montreal has the reputation of being Canada's nightlife capital. But advocates say the city is failing to protect that reputation. Music fans were outraged by the closure of the historic La Tulipe venue in the Plateau Mont-Royal neighbourhood last fall. As we told you at the time, it closed its doors after a Quebec Superior Court ordered it to stop making noise inside and outside an adjacent building, following a noise complaint. In response, the borough vowed to put measures in place to prevent similar closures from happening. And earlier this week, the borough council presented a draft bylaw, revising its noise regulations. Sergio Da Silva co-owns two bars -- the Blue Dog and Turbo Haüs -- in a different neighbourhood. But he's not convinced the bylaw will do much for a city-wide problem. We reached him in Montreal.

NK: Sergio, in its announcement, the Plateau-Montreal Council has said this new bylaw will, quote, enrich cultural life while preserving the peace and quiet for residents, unquote. So from where you sit, is this bylaw a win-win for everyone?

SERGIO DA SILVA: No. I mean, a lot of this time, we're not having a genuine conversation as to what the actual problem is. So, right now, the city can make whatever bylaws and they can make whatever changes they like. But ultimately, it's the the liquor board and the province who ultimately make the decisions as to whether or not you're too loud.

NK: So, what are you left with in this scenario? What does it mean for someone who operates spots like you do?

SDS: Their announcement literally changes nothing. None of it really matters until you actually redo all the bylaws that are there. I mean, like not having the agent of change rule in Montreal is a huge problem. I mean the perfect example is the La Tulipe situation that happened a few months ago. You had somebody who was not even living in that building, and not only that, they circumvented the rules that the city already had on the books in terms of not being able to change any commercial units into residential units in that neighbourhood. After they caught the mistake, they didn't do anything to change it back. So now, we lose a 100-year-old venue. And, you know, it causes all sorts of problems for touring in Montreal and getting sort of like events and shows in the city.

NK: You mentioned the agent of change rule. It is used in Toronto, not in Montreal. What would it allow for?

SDS: Basically, what it means is that whoever is coming into the ecosystem is responsible for the changes that are happening. If I open a venue in a residential neighbourhood, it would be up to me to soundproof, it would be be up me to get along with the neighbours, it would be up be me to make sure the quality of life remains the way it was. The onus is on the developer or the landlord to make that their residents retain the quality of life that they're supposed to have. So, for me, that's one of the biggest ones. Another one would be to release some of the power that the province has over some of these bylaws in terms of that the city is trying to trying to put in getting a third party that isn't the morality police, that isn't the resident council, and that isn't the city that can come in and take a look at these noise complaints.

NK: There was so much uproar and concern around La Tulipe, and I'm sure others have raised these issues as well, about what Toronto has and Montreal doesn't. What kind of response has there been? Do you see any inkling that even if this council decision isn't what you need and want it to be, that it could be paving the way for a better situation for you and others?

SDS: There seems to be a willingness to try to figure it out, but there just is not the political will to get it done. And right now, Montreal is in a perfect position with people being reluctant to go to the United States for their vacations, with the return of Just For Laughs, with F1, to really put ourselves in a place to really have one of the greatest summers we've had since pre-pandemic. And these half measures are just sort of like an embarrassing failing.

NK: And just tell us a little bit more about the businesses that you operate. What is it like on a Saturday night?

SDS: At both bars, we run two events a night. We run a show that goes from nine to 11, and then we usually will run DJs from 11:30 'till 3 o'clock. And these are on bustling streets. I'm not in the heart of a residential neighbourhood. I'm on a street on Saint Denis that is zoned specifically for venues and bars. But I still get complaints. The same thing with my other bar, Blue Dog, on Saint-Laurant. It's a historic nightlife spot in the city of Montreal.

NK: What kinds of complaints are you getting? How often do you get complaints?

SDS: Right now, Blue Dog, it's about once a month, maybe more. And these will happen as early as 7:30 p.m. I had a noise complaint happen during a sound check. If the police show up, it's purely at their discretion as to whether or not you're too loud.

NK: What would you say to people who, yeah, maybe they went in, eyes open, of where they're living and, you know, they need a place to live, they like where they live, but it is too loud for them, and they can't deal with it. What would you say to them?

SDS: You know where you're going, and you have the ability to live somewhere else. If you like it because of the arts and culture, and your contribution is just to make it worse, then we don't need you in our community. And to see tours get passed up, bands not being able to get through, promoters and people who are struggling now harder and harder every day, I find it to be repulsive.

NK: I wonder what kinds of conversations or what kind of response do you and others who agree with you get when you're talking about the building of these new buildings, or refurbishment of the buildings in the neighbourhood about soundproofing that they're doing?

SDS: A lot of times they're not. Like, that's a quick corner to cut. Like, I live above, you know, I probably shouldn't be saying this on national radio, [chuckling] but I live above the bar that I own. And either you can do it or you can't. And ultimately, I think this falls onto the developers, it falls onto the real estate agents, to make sure that everybody understands where they're going.

NK: As you look into the future, what are you imagining for the neighbourhoods that we've been talking about here, where you own businesses, where you live, if there isn't a change that meets people more in the middle?

SDS: I mean, for me, the biggest thing is that in terms of arts and culture in these neighbourhoods, they're just going to go somewhere else. It's just going to leave all these neighbourhoods derelict, essentially. Because a lot of these people are moving here for the culture. These are not cheap places to live. We're not talking about throwing out single mothers of four in St. Henry, we're talking about some [bleeped] banker who decided to move into a building that he shouldn't [bleeped] be in.

NK: Where do you take your fight? How do you keep pushing this issue if you keep getting blocked?

SDS: You eventually just move on. We'll take it somewhere else. And then, people will follow up and the rest of you, everybody else can suffer. Like, everybody else who's decided that this is not something that we want. The province is probably, for me, the biggest problem because they're putting huge amounts of money into protecting arts and culture. But when it comes down to, like, boots on the ground, they can't get out of their own way. It's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

NK: Sergio, I appreciate this. Thank you for your time.

SDS: No, thank you. [chuckling] Sorry for swearing.

CH: Sergio Da Silva is the co-owner of the Blue Dog and Turbo Haüs bars in Montreal. We reached him there. We requested comment from the Régie des Alcools of Quebec. In a statement, it said that it only intervenes after receiving a police report and analyzing each case. We also contacted Quebec's Culture and Communications Ministry, and Ericka Alneus who is the city's executive committee member responsible for culture -- but we did not get a response before we went to air.

[hip-hop]

NS Mensa Kid

CH: I'm not sure what members of Mensa do, exactly, in their secret club for people who are really really smart. I assume they pretty much just talk to each other about being really, really smart. I will never know. A simple-minded fellow such as myself does not simply waltz into Mensa. To be admitted, aspirants have to score in the top two per cent on standard intelligence tests. But Elijah Kodzo Motey from Bedford, Nova Scotia is about to know. He's a new member of the club, and he's got a whole lifetime to learn about the community -- because he's only six. Here are Elijah and his mother, Mercy.

SOUNDCLIP

MERCY MUTALE MOTEY: It's amazing, we are so proud, we're so excited. I think we are still in shock in some ways, just really processing all of this. I always tell the story that we had magnets on the fridge, and he would spell words with them. And we would turn around and think, who spelled this word on the fridge? And we'd just be asking questions. And we'd be watching him and making little videos of him, recording putting words on the fringe, numbers, putting equations. He would be doing, you know, three times tables, three, six, nine, 12, and he was, like, two years old. And so, it was just remarkable to be able to watch. And we knew, we really knew, that he was so gifted. And the process that we went through, you know, we had to go through all of these steps. But the end result didn't surprise us at all. I think we really knew, and anyone who's met him, I think, as well just can see that shine through in him as well.

PRESTON MULLIGAN: Elijah, what do you like the most about school there?

ELIJAH KODZO MOTEY: Math by solving questions, gym by running around, and the library with reading.

PM: What do you like to read about?

EKM: Sports.

PM: Soccer? Football?

EKM: Yes.

PM: And why do you think you're so interested in math? What is it about math and problem solving that you like so much?

EKM: That I can be smart and intelligent.

PM: Elijah, what do you want to be when you grow up?

EKM: I would be a football player.

PM: Yeah? Why football player?

EKM: Because I like football. I'll play for Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, and then I'll go back to Chelsea.

CH: That was Elijah Kodzo Motey and his mother, Mercy Mutale Motey, speaking to the CBC's Preston Mulligan.

[surf rock]

FOA: Stilton

CH: Earlier this week, we told you about a longstanding political debate in the U.K. And I mean long-standing. It dates back to at least the 1700s -- when Stilton, England made a name for itself selling Stilton cheese. And made a name for the cheese, too -- which was Stilton. And still is. Nevertheless, today, cheesemakers in Stilton can’t market locally-made cheese as Stilton, due to a protected designation obtained by three other nearby counties in the '90s. A protection that our guest argued on Monday should extend to Stilton cheesemakers too.

SOUNDCLIP

SHAILESH VARA: They defined criteria that if anyone was going to be able to allow to make it they would need to be to prove that Stilton cheese was historically made in that area. And what we have in Stilton is a historian who is able to prove quite conclusively that Stilton cheese was actually made in the village.

CH: Former British Member of Parliament Shailesh Vara, talking to Nil on Monday’s program about Stilton, England’s historic claim to Stilton cheese, and the production thereof. American cheesemakers, of course, have no such claim. But that didn’t stop one of them from attempting to sell a stateside Stilton in the '70s. R.H Watson-Holme -- a contender for a title of "most British name" -- was the chairman of the English Stilton Cheese Association at the time, and spoke with then-As It Happens host, Barbara Frum.

SOUNDCLIP

R.H WATSON-HOLME: We have had samples and it is of nowhere, you cannot compare its consistency, or its colour, or its flavour with the proper Stilton.

BARBARA FRUM: They've wrapped it in the Union Jack, you know.

RWH: Yes, they've wrapped it in the Union Jack, and we in the Stilton industry, we absolutely deplore this because it is false pretenses.

BF: How close have they come? What does their cheese taste like?

RWH: I'm not sure as I should be allowed to repeat exactly what I really thought of the cheese except it was just foul.

BF: What were your original words on this topic, Mr. Watson-Holme?

RWH: Well, it tasted like cow muck.

BF: Cow muck.

RWH: If you want to know the truth is that's what I said at home. It tasted like cow muck. [BF laughs] Quite honestly, the flavour was awful, the texture was like soap, and the veining was nothing at all like a Stilton whatsoever.

CH: From Our Archives, part of Barbara Frum’s 1976 interview with R.H. Watson-Holme, chairman of the English Stilton Cheese Association. After this week’s interview about Stilton, we also heard from a number of you. Including one listener who was struck by a classic -- and, we assume, helpful -- As It Happens reference to the number of Stiltons Stilton is from Reading.

SOUNDCLIP

MILES MORRISON: I'm Miles Morrison in Euclid, and I just realized I've been listening to As It Happens on the same radio for 50 years. And the reason I have that radio is because days, like three or four days, after getting my driver's license in Montreal, I got a speeding ticket going three miles an hour over the speed limit. And I was so terrified that I scraped together as much money as I could and went by the deadline to the courthouse, and it turns out the $95 that I scraped together was highly more than the $17 ticket that I was assessed. And right next door was a stereo store, so I went in and bought this radio that I am still listening to As It Happens on. And my radio is 20,139,107.6 radios from Redding.

CH: [chuckling] Thanks, Miles. We’ll have to trust him on his distance math. He should know. He’s Miles.

[Spanish guitar]

Medicine Hat’s CHAT-TV

Guest: Dan Reynish

CH: In 1957, a TV station with the motto "The Prairies' Very Own" flickered to life in Medicine Hat, Alberta. And now, after almost 70 years of serving as a community lifeline, CHAT-TV has suddenly gone dark. The company that runs the station said it could no longer afford to broadcast, and is laying off over a dozen employees. Dan Reynish is one of them. He was the noon and 5 o'clock news anchor on CHAT-TV. We reached him in Medicine Hat, Alberta.

NK: Dan, that final sign off, what were you feeling in those moments?

DAN REYNISH: You know, I was feeling that we would literally be back the next day. It was something that I've said for years. We'll see you tomorrow at noon and 5. And the very last sign off, I honestly thought we'd be back on Tuesday at noon and 5.

NK: Has it sunk in now, a few days later?

DR: No, no, no. [chuckling] No, it's still, [beginning to cry] I'm still very heartbroken.

NK: Awe, Dan.

DR: You know, it's one of those things that in broadcasting, you rarely, you rarely, if ever, unless you retire, you rarely get a chance to say goodbye. And our community has been hit hard by this. It wasn't just the cancelation of the show, the entire station is gone. Medicine Hat no longer has its own television station. So, local commercials are gone, local stories are gone, the local heart of the city, the pet stories, like, it's all gone. And that was done in the blink of an eye.

NK: You anchored that show every day for eight years. Have there been discussions that there could have been a way to save the station?

DR: I can see from the business point of view after a while it's, why bother saving the station? They've got other stations in British Columbia, Medicine Hat is an outlier station, we've always sort of been a station that operates outside of the way the company does things. And so, to just cut us off and save the other stations in British Columbia, I think, made perfect sense for them. As far as saving the station, could it have been saved? Yes. Did they want to save it? Obviously not; they closed it.

NK: When you think back on those eight years and what you just said there, that you were, that your station was a bit of an outlier, and you do things a little bit differently than, than others and than corporate corporate did.

DR: Yeah.

NK: What did you mean by that? What did you and the team do differently?

DR: We, first off, by the time we closed, we were a team of four, if not five, people, and that was it. And, you know, between vacations and days off, there'd be days where there'd been one or two of us in the newsroom. And so, we would have to find a unique way to tell Medicine Hat's stories. So, as opposed to going out and doing an interview with the Girl Guides, we brought the Girl Guides in, and have them stand in the studio with me at the end of the show and sell me Girl Guide cookies, and do more interviews with people than stories. Look lives and just conversations with people. And we also had, four days a week, we had guests in studio. And so once our studios got lost in the flood a month ago, it was a matter of, okay, well, where do we do this? Do we do it outside? Do we do it in the lobby? And we just do things differently. So, I'm not talking we reinvented the wheel, but we did things a little bit differently than the other stations, which are a little bit more corporate, a little better-staffed, and they brought people into the studio. They sent people out to do stories the typical way that you would see on television.

NK: What are you most proud of, whether it's a story or an experience?

DR: Uh, you know, I'm just proud of the fact that for the eight years that I was there, uh, we worked really hard to tell Medicine Hat stories. Medicine Hat, there's a lot of communities out there across the country that don't have representation anymore because of layoffs in one way or another, or stations closing, and that's radio and television. And those stories in those communities are not being told. Like, we're three hours away from Calgary. And Calgary has very little if anything to do with Medicine Hat, but that's the closest news organization to us now is Calgary. So, whenever anybody in Medicine Hat wants to watch the news, we're going to get Calgary's news, and it'll be local to Calgary. And so, I'm proud of the stories in Medicine Hat that we're able to tell. I'm proud of the people that we're able to put on television. I've interviewed people dressed up as hot dogs and tigers and dinosaurs. We've had musicians and authors and regular folks from just across the community, just people coming in and telling their stories, which, you know, their stories in Medicine Hat were my stories. I moved here eight years ago with the commitment to stay and be in Medicine Hat and tell Medicine Hat stories. And I'm proud of the Medicine Hat stories that we were able to tell. And I'm disappointed that we won't be [crying, sniffling] --

NK: I'm so sorry, Dan.

NK: I'm disappointed we won't be telling them anymore.

NK: It is a really deep connection. Any of us who get to do this work, that relationship you have with the audience, whether you get to meet them, or see them, or whether they see or hear you, so I understand that connection and that emotion. You said you didn't get a chance to say goodbye. If you did, and you'd like to now, what would you say?

DR: That's a very difficult thing. You know, we've had a lot of people on social media writing to us and saying how they spend their supper hours watching us as they eat their dinner. And, uh, I'm just so thankful that people invited us into their homes, and let us be there with them. But more importantly, thank you for trusting us with your stories. It was our pleasure to tell them.

NK: Dan, thank you for sharing your experience and your story here with us. Please take care.

DR: It's been my pleasure, and thank you very much for letting us say goodbye.

NK: Take care, Dan.

CH: Dan Reynish was an anchor on CHAT-TV in Medicine Hat, Alberta -- and that's where we reached him.

[sombre instrumental]

Part 3: Ontario Garbage Dump

NL Unclaimed Bodies

CH: Mario Boucher of Labrador City was 66 years old when he died in April. His body has been in a freezer of a St. John's hospital ever since. As we've told you on the show before, the bodies of more than 20 people have been stored in frozen storage containers. In some cases, they went unclaimed, and in other cases relatives simply did not have the funds to get them a proper burial. The province's Health Services recently released a list of people whose bodies are still there, in the search of a next of kin. If no one steps up, the health authority says it will handle burials itself. But a woman named Julia Hall says she's doing her best to claim Mario Boucher, and give him a proper burial -- although she didn't know him personally.

SOUNDCLIP

JULIA HALL: Labradorians, you know, if it's someone that needs help with something, and if somebody has to step in and take charge, I guess, of a project like this, then I'm more than happy to do that because I know that I have a whole entire community that's going to help me do it. But, you know, based on my conversations through the grapevine and stuff, the family and the extended family of his spouse and stuff are all on board with this.

REGAN BURDEN: You know, what, I guess, are the big obstacles you're facing right now?

JH: Similar to what his family would have faced is trying to get funding through the Funeral Assistance Program with the government. But I don't know if they're actually going to give me the money. Maybe we'll go ahead and do a little fundraiser, get the donations, so we can get him home, get him his urn, pay for his cremation, his trip home, a little plaque on his grave and stuff, a headstone of some sort for him. But basically, then once that funeral assistance money came in, if it did, then take that and donate it. Maybe just donate it to the hospital or something in his memory, or buy something for the hospital. But yeah, that's kind of the direction that it's looking like it's going in now.

RB: I think it's a very kind thing that you're doing, you know? And you were talking about the list earlier, you know, you just scrolled through it out of curiosity. And, you know, what was that like seeing all those names and, um, yeah. And then, seeing his name on there.

JH: It was sad. And, like, I think that's not closure for the family either because maybe part of the reason is because the family can't afford it, or because they're not able, similar to Mario's situation. The thought of the people that have, you know, they were sick and they were by themselves. Like, what if they had no family at all? Like, it's just, it's heartbreaking, really, to know that these people that have contributed to our province, to our society, to our towns, they're just left by themselves. And that's really sad.

RB: And you didn't really know Mario, but you know people who did have a closer relationship with them. How did people talk about him?

JH: Everyone had nothing but good things to say about him. You know, he was hardworking, he was kind. He worked at the shopping centre at one point, and he would always come and help bring their garbage out. I think he was just one of those people that just wanted to help other people, and even if it was in a small way and just put a smile on someone's face. Walking by him, he was the type of person that would just say hello and have a quick chat, whatever. Yeah, he was a good guy by the sounds of it, for sure.

CH: That was Julia Hall, speaking to CBC journalist Regan Burden.

[folk]

Ontario Garbage Dump

Guest: Cal Lakhan

CH: First come steel and aluminum tariffs. Then comes garbage. At least that's what Doug Ford is afraid of. Part of its controversial “Protect Ontario by Unleashing our Economy Act” -- also known as Bill 5 -- would speed up the expansion of a landfill project near Dresden. The Premier says it’s a necessary evil because of how much garbage Ontario currently exports to the United States. As he told reporters last month, quote, “We're relying on the U.S. again.” And all it takes, he says, is -- quote, “one phone call from President Trump to...cut us off.” Unquote. That might sound alarmist. But researchers have actually been sounding this particular alarm since well before Donald Trump returned to office. Cal Lakhan is the director of York University’s Circular Innovation Hub. We reached him in Brampton, Ontario.

NK: Cal, if the U.S. president were to bar Ontario's garbage from entering the U.S. tomorrow, what would happen?

CAL LAKHAN: I think it would be catastrophic. So right now, approximately about one-third of Ontario's waste presently goes to the United States, Michigan being the primary source. So, I think if the United States overnight said no more to Canada's waste, we would face an immediate and impending landfill capacity crisis.

NK: What do you think that would end up looking like? Where would that garbage need to go?

CL: So, I think in an immediate context, the most obvious solution would actually be transporting to other Canadian jurisdictions like neighbouring provinces that might have landfill capacity. This is horrible for both an economic and environmental perspective to have to transport waste so far. The measures that are being proposed by governments such as expanding the Dresden landfill, these are still things that take years at a time. And so, I think that once again, hypothetically if the U.S. government was to, you know, close their borders tomorrow, we would need to find some alternative solutions pretty fast. And what is being proposed is not, once again, a tomorrow solution, it is several years down the road.

NK: Doug Ford, Ontario's premier, is saying the solution is the expansion near Dresden that you referenced there. And that if they do it quickly, that will solve things or help things. It doesn't sound like you think it will help much at all.

CL: So, my personal opinion is that it is a bandaid on a gaping wound. So, when you think about adding additional landfill capacity, A, it takes a very long time, so let's assume the technical feasibility and infrastructural feasibility is possible. You're still talking about just kicking the can down the road. It's like fundamentally, we are generating much more waste than we have available space in Ontario. So, unless there is some plan to begin forcing multiple municipalities to build or expand landfill capacity, I don't see it being a viable solution in either the near or long-term. I think that's just a mischaracterization of the issue.

NK: People who live in that part of Ontario are opposed, in large part, to this idea. The conservative MPP for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex, Steve Pinsonneault, is one of them. We'll play you now a little bit of what he said in a social media video he posted last month.

SOUNDCLIP

STEVE PINSONNEAULT: I do not support this landfill. I've personally spoke to the premier, I've personally spoke to ministers, I've told them of the concerns of this landfill, and I told them how I'm opposed to it. The reality is, I'm one of 80 votes, and no matter how I vote, it's not gonna change the outcome.

NK: Once again, that's Conservative MPP Steve Pinsonneault, contradicting his own party on this issue. So, where do you see things, Cal? I mean, what could, or should, Ontario be doing to get a better handle on its waste problems, to solve them without imposing its will, potentially, on communities such as Dresden?

CL: Yeah, I think ultimately this idea that we can add additional landfill capacity and that will solve our long-term waste problems is erroneous thinking. We really should be moving away from trying to build additional landfill capacity, and finding more appropriate diversion solutions. And it's extraordinarily problematic and also a departure from our historical precedent to impose landfills onto communities. That is a horrible precedent to set, and something I hope I don't see replicated in the future. The truth is that we actually don't necessarily have the existing recycling capacity to manage the types of waste that we're producing. So, we're going to increasingly have to turn to alternative technologies like waste to energy, which is incinerating waste and then trying to capture the energy that is a result of that incineration. This technology does not have a good reputation in Ontario and in Canada, and there's a lot of political resistance to it. However, the technology has shown tremendous promise in other jurisdictions like in Europe and Southeast Asia. So, I think Ontario is going to have to think outside of the blue box and think outside of mechanical recycling, and potentially explore options such as waste to energy or chemical recycling to really enable us to get a firm grasp of this waste management problem as opposed to just putting it in the ground and hoping for the best.

NK: You hinted at some of the pushback on that idea of waste to energy. Advocacy groups, including TEA, the Toronto Environmental Alliance, oppose burning waste. And say waste to energy proposals amount to, quote, greenwashing and are, quote, an astronomically expensive and carbon intensive way to make energy, unquote. What do you say in response to those kinds of criticisms.

CL: I think those are fairly valid criticisms. So, if you look at the historical use of waste to energy, it does produce a lot of environments of pollutants. It is very energy intensive. It's very costly. However, the characterization of waste to energy is the technology that we had two decades ago. And I think we were looking towards the international community to see how has technology advanced, you begin to see a slightly different picture. So, I don't want to mischaracterize waste to energy as being a universal one-stop solution to our waste woes, but I think that the reality is we have a very limited number of tools in our toolbox. So, I think, waste to energy by necessity is going to be one of those tools. And at the end of the day, the solution to a waste crisis problem is not producing it in the first place, but the practical reality is is that we as Canadians just continue to produce more and more waste, and I don't see a significant behavioural shift in the immediate future.

NK: I mean, we've been talking about it for so long, you'd think we'd be a little bit better at it now.

CL: You would think so. And unfortunately, the data is moving in the exact opposite direction. So, Canadians continue to produce more waste per capita than almost any other country on Earth, and that's a trend that's going up. And so, really, we should be emphasizing waste reduction and then reuse and then recycling. But the sad reality is just that shifting our system, or shifting consumer behaviour in that direction is enormously difficult. So, I would put more money on technological solutions like waste to energy than I would on behavioural change.

NK: Knowing what you know, do you cringe every time you have to throw something in the trash?

CL: You know, I actually don't feel terrible about it. And the one thing we don't want to do is guilt people.

NK: Yeah.

CL: Because the reality is, is that, but a lot of people just simply don't have access to adequate diversion programs. And so, I think that, you know, we need to make it as convenient as possible for people, and not guilt them into saying, you're doing what's wrong. The reality is the government has built the infrastructure and access that's necessary to make us good environmental citizens.

NK: Cal, I suspect we will speak again. Thank you for this conversation, though. I appreciate it.

CL: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Cal Lakhan is the director of York University’s Circular Innovation Hub and a co-investigator on the “Waste Wiki” project. We reached him in Brampton, Ontario.

[elevator music]

Firefighter Recruitment

CH: Wildfires continue to threaten large parts of the Prairies today -- and in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan that means it’s all hands on deck. One of those pairs of hands belongs to Cliff Buettner, who was just days into his retirement before he returned to work to help battle the fire. He’s working alongside Brenda Roberts -- who is coordinating Saskatchewan First Nations Wildfire Protection training for new recruits.

SOUNDCLIP

CLIFF BUETTNER: This is far beyond anything that I've experienced in my 40 years, 40-plus years, of being involved. It's just rolling, basically rolling. The wind-driven fires and the speed of the headfire intensity is extreme, and not giving communities a lot of time to react.

SAM MACIAG: Brenda, this week the PA Grand Council is offering Type 3 Emergency Personal Firefighter Training. What does that mean in terms of helping out?

BRENDA ROBERTS: Well, relief of some of the Type Two firefighters, supporting the Type Two firefighters out there and the Type Ones. Any support they can do at the bases, preparing the firefighters, fueling up vehicles. And I've had 176 applicants so far. Yesterday, we've got 37 showed up to do the course. Actually, I've had a 17-year-old call, our age group we're after is 18-plus. I've also had calls from people who have heavy equipment experience, Class 1A drivers, heavy duty mechanics, just to say that they're available. People are just wanting to help.

CB: And we're not putting Type Three firefighters in front of those fires. Absolutely not. Just because of the danger involved in it. Type Three is an emergency firefighter that would basically be hired to look after suppression, basically, or mop up of the fire after it's contained, or after it laid back down to the ground.

SM: Tell me about what's involved in the training, though. If there's someone listening, thinking, maybe I'd be interested in doing that. What's involved in the Training for this Type Three?

CB: Safety, safety, safety. In terms of fire behaviour, fire operations, heavy equipment, aircraft, and there's practical components with that as well so that they learn the operations of the pump and the tactics used for firefighting, for direct suppression, for hose line hookup, indirect attack, digging some type of a fire perimeter or a ground trench to slow the fire on the ground. Priority is human life. And that is the most important thing that we can stress to anybody, anybody who's even interested in being involved in fires. Like I said, my background, I've done it most of my career. And I've been in some pretty dire situations, and this is some of the worst I've seen.

CH: Cliff Buettner is the former director of forestry and emergency protective services for the Prince Albert Grand Council. Brenda Roberts is helping to coordinate firefighter training for the council’s new recruits. They spoke with CBC Regina’s Sam Maciag.

[acoustic guitar]

FTR: Florida Hurricane Expert

CH: Hurricane season has begun -- and a long-time Florida meteorologist is worried. John Morales says he fears "needless loss of life", not only because this season is expected to be intense but because government cuts mean forecasters lack the depth and breadth of information they need to deliver accurate forecasts. The kind that can save lives. Mr. Morales works for news station NBC 6 in Miami. And on Sunday, he shared his concerns with viewers. He began by re-airing a clip from a report he gave several years ago when Floridians were concerned that Hurricane Dorian was about to hit.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN MORALES: There is a lot of anxiety out there. Because you don't see it turning, right? When is it going to turn? John, it's not turning! It's coming straight to us. It is going to turn. All right? The turn was never forecast to be on Sunday. The turn isn't even on Monday morning. The turn will come Monday afternoon, Monday evening, into Tuesday. Remember that? That was about six years ago. That was Hurricane Dorian, as it was absolutely devastating the northwest Bahamas, as a category five, sat over that region for two days. It was headed straight west. Lots of people in Florida were concerned the hurricane was heading here. And as you've grown accustomed to my presentations over my 34 years in South Florida newscasts, confidently, I went on TV and I told you it's going to turn. You don't need to worry. It is going to turn. And I am here to tell you that I am not sure I can do that this year. Because of the cuts, the gutting, the sledgehammer attack on science in general, and I could talk about that for a long, long time, and how that is affecting the U.S. leadership in science over many years, and how we're losing that leadership, and this is a multi-generational impact on science in this country, all right? But specifically, let's talk about the federal government cuts to the National Weather Service and to NOAA. Did you know that Central and South Florida National Weather Services offices are currently basically 20 to 40 per cent understaffed? From Tampa to Key West, including the Miami office, 20 to 40 per cent under-staffed. Now, this type of staffing shortage is having impacts across the nation because there's been a nearly 20 per cent reduction in weather balloon releases, launches, that carry those radio sounds, and what we're starting to see is that the quality of the forecast is becoming degraded. There's also a chance because of some of these cuts that NOAA Hurricane Hunter aircraft will not be able to fly this year. And with less reconnaissance missions, we may be flying blind. And we may not exactly know how strong a hurricane is before it reaches the coastline. So, I was asked to talk about this today, I'm glad I was. I just want you to know that what you need to do is call your representatives and make sure that these cuts are stopped. Back to you.

CH: For The Record, that was Miami-based NBC 6 meteorologist John Morales sharing his concerns about government cuts with viewers on Sunday.

[lo-fi]

Encore: Sports Bar Expansion

CH: For years now, people have been flocking to The Sports Bra in Oregon. And soon they'll be able to go to Sports Bras in Boston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, and St. Louis too. I speak, of course, of the sports bar The Sports Bra -- which was the world's first-ever venue dedicated to women's sports, when it first opened in Portland in 2022. Weeks before that, As It Happens guest host Gillian Findlay spoke to the bar's creator, Jenny Nguyen.

SOUNDCLIP

GF: Jenny, a sports bar that only plays women's sports. Where did that idea come from?

JENNY NGUYEN: You know, it was the NCAA women's basketball finals. So, like, the biggest game of the year, really. And about a dozen of us rolled into the Sports Bra. And you know, we thought for sure it would be on at least one TV, and it wasn't. So, you know, we pushed some tables together, we flagged down a server, and she's like, oh, no problem, I can change the channel. And so, she was able to change, like, the smaller TV in kind of corner of the bar. And it wasn't a big deal, you know, because again, we were kind of used to it at that point. And so we proceed to watch this game, and it was like the best game I'd ever seen. It was a comeback from behind and then a last-second three-pointer to win. And it was just magic. And, you know, our whole table erupted. And, you know, I remember jumping up and down and then looking around the bar and realizing that no one else was watching our game, so they were just looking at us like we were crazy. [both laughing] So, yeah, so we, you know, we had a really great time, and we celebrated. And then, as we were leaving, we were in the parking lot saying our goodbyes and stuff. And I remember being like, oh man, that was such a great game. And someone else is like, yeah, you know, it was. But it would have been so much better if the sound had been on. [GF chuckles] And it was kind of that aha moment of like, wow, have we really gotten so used to, you know, not experiencing women's sports in, like, its full capacity that, you know, that's something as important as having the sound on is, you know, overlooked, really?

GF: Yeah.

JN: And I think as we were leaving the parking lot, I had said that it was a total joke like nothing meant behind it. I had said the only way we'll ever get to watch a women's sporting event, like, in its full glory, is if we had our own place, you know?

GF: And, in a couple of weeks, you're going to have your own place.

JN: Exactly! [laughing]

GF: a place called the Sports Bra. Now explain… explain the title to me.

JN: Sure. So just like, either the day after a couple of days after, I had made that joke about opening our own place, I came up with the name. And it just… it's so obvious. I feel like it's so easy. You know, you just take the sports bar, and you switch it around a little bit. And you know, I love puns and, like, alliteration and things like that.

GF: Oh, you're on the right program. [Both laugh]

JN: Yeah. So it was like a really easy, like, link to make that connection. And the tagline is, we support women.

GF: Right.

JN: So, it makes sense.

GF: So when people walk into the Sports Bra in a couple of weeks, what… what do you want them to experience? How is this going to be different than other sports bars they may have been in?

JN: Sure. You know, honestly, I think, you know, same with the title of the… the name of the bar, I want it to feel so familiar and very traditional. I want it to feel like nothing has changed. But upon closer inspection… you know, because I have people walk by and they're like the sports bar, like, what's the big deal? Because they didn't even see that the r and the a are switched around. And I kind of want that same feeling when people come in. Like, I want it to feel just like, you know, your regular sports bar. And then when you sit down, you realize, Oh, everything on TV is women's sports. Or, oh, these flags are for women's teams. Or, you know, all these athletes that are… that have pictures and autographs up on the wall are all female athletes. So it's kind of like that slow realization.

GF: Sports were really important to you, I think, growing up, right?

JN: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I… I picked up a basketball when I was five and just wanted to dribble, like, everywhere. And I just never really stopped doing that. I play on a league now. My team is called the Golden Girls because we're all over 40, and we're in a league with a bunch of girls that are, like, fresh out of college. So it's really hilarious. But yeah, I played basketball my whole life, and it was just, like, how I found my footing, you know? How I found my friends. How I felt like I belonged was on the court. And almost everybody I know or have association with now is either through basketball or indirectly through basketball. You know, a friend of a friend through basketball. My girlfriend and I, we met each other playing pickup basketball here in Portland 12 years ago. And so, you know, it's just… it has weaved in and out of my… my life.

GF: What kind of reaction have you received?

JN: It has been overwhelmingly positive. I mean, I… you know, an ideal lives in your mind for a few years, and you just think, oh yeah, of course, I think it's a great idea, but you never know what it'll be like when you release it out into the world. And when they did, it was really scary. And then, just almost immediately, people have been so supportive. I've heard probably thousands of stories by now from strangers who have told me about, you know, how they've been living their whole life waiting for a place like this. Or they're so glad that, you know, they can raise a daughter and have a place like this for them to take them to. And just like story after story after story fills up my mailbox, and it's… it's just… I had no idea that it would have the impact that it has, even… even before we open our doors.

GF: Do you think there'll be guys, guys who show up too?

JN: Oh, 100 per cent. You know, like I always… I tell people that, you know, the Sports Bra, it's… it's not a sports bar for women. It's a bar for women's sports. So if you are a fan of women's sports, you're welcome here. And just… I think, you know, the community craves a place like this. And also a safe, inclusive environment. I think, you know, you build it with intention, and then the people know that that's what's happening. You know, you can talk about it all you want, but it's really, you know, what you're putting out there, what you know, what you're showing, what the representation that you want to have for the community. And so, yeah, I think… I think it's just a learning process for me too. Like, I don't have all the answers, and I'm very open to hearing about the community about, you know, things that I need to change, the things that we need to work on as a business model and all of those things. So yeah, it's… again, it's the first of its kind. So there's going to be growing pains. [chuckling]

GF: Of course. Well, I wish you the best of luck, Jenny. And we'll… we'll see if it catches on.

JN: Awesome. I really appreciate your time today.

CH: That was the creator of The Sports Bra sports bar, Jenny Nguyen, talking to guest host Gillian Findlay in 2022.

[hip-hop]

Freda Goose Obit

CH: Humber Arm South, Newfoundland and Labrador is mourning one of its own. Not one of the townsfolk per se, but someone who was a special local celebrity -- a small pillar of the community in her own right. Freda the goose has died at the age of...well, who can be sure? The age geese get to. Freda had been a friendly constant in Humber Arm South for years. and now, the town has a goose-sized hole in its heart. Gloria O'Connell told the CBC how her community is remembering their mascot.

SOUNDCLIP

GLORIA O'CONNELL: Frida was a snow goose that managed to get loose from a farm across the bay there on the North Shore. And she managed to find her way to our little community over here on the opposite side. And at first, we were trying to catch her and get her to a safe place, because as you know, she's a wild animal and whatnot. But eventually, we all come to love her. We all started bringing her snacks and feeding her. She got to trust us, and she became like our little family member. She would come up around the parking lot, and she wouldn't bother with us. She wouldn't attack us. She would just ambaline in between all the cars, and people would throw her little snacks. She'd come over, and she'd have her snack, and she's squawk at us, and then she'd go on again.

BERNICE HILLIER: What happened to Frida last week?

GO: We noticed she was missing for a few days, and then one of the other guys that works here, he went up along the beach to look for her. And when he come to her nest, he found that she had been deceased. And it looked like the eagles had tried to get at her eggs, and she was protecting her eggs. They buried her over on the beach where she stayed, too. They buried some corn with her and some bread and some water, stuff that she loved the most. Oh my god, everybody here is in a sombre mood. We're used to hearing her in the mornings. And when we come out on breaks, she's usually up walking around on the parking lot. And we all get to say hello, Freda. And now, she's just not there. And it seems like there's something missing.

CH: Gloria O'Connell speaking with the CBC's Bernice Hillier.

The AIH Transcript For June 4, 2025

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