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The AIH transcript for March 31, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Aftershocks. In the wake of the catastrophic earthquake in Myanmar, getting aid to the survivors is proving to be a serious challenge -- in a place where the need was already serious.

CH: Defy and conquer. Young people in Turkey are at the centre of the anti-government uprising; one activist tells us his generation feels like they've lost their future -- so they've lost their fear.

NK: Payback time. A Liberal candidate faces calls to leave the race, after suggesting people try to collect the bounty Beijing put on a Conservative candidate.

CH: A shadow of their former shelves. As Canada prepares to launch retaliatory tariffs against the U.S., some worry books might be included -- which one bookstore manager says could be an unhappy ending for his industry.

NK: McNuggets of Wisdom. I'll speak with the British man who took it upon himself to fix the lettering on a flawed McDonald's sign -- and finds his fame immediately super-sized.

CH: And...not for loch of trying. Still no confirmation of Nessie, but an old underwater camera that was supposed to get a photo of her has just been retrieved -- by none other than Boaty McBoatface.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday Edition. Radio that reflects on a tale as old as time...a song as old as rhyme: Boaty and the beast.

Part 1: Myanmar WFP, Paul Chiang Comments, Leeds McD’s Sign

Myanmar WFP

Guest: Melissa Hein

CH: The earthquake in Myanmar on Friday was tremendously powerful -- and its effects commensurately horrific. As of now, more than 2,000 people have died -- including 700 Muslims praying at mosques during Ramadan. On its own, it was disastrous. But now, things will get even more difficult for people who were already in need of aid -- and for the people who are trying to get that aid to them. The UN's humanitarian coordinator, Marcoluigi Corsi, estimated that, because of the civil war in Myanmar, about 20 million people were in need of assistance before the earthquake. Now, that number will balloon, while the ability of NGOs to deliver that food is curtailed even further by the extent of the damage to infrastructure. Melissa Hein is the head of communications for the World Food Programme in Myanmar. We reached her in Yangon.

NK: Melissa, what of your teams -- your colleagues -- been telling you about what they're seeing on the ground?

MELISSA HEIN: So, for me, I'm in Yangon, but I'm working with the World Food Programme. So, my colleagues are out in the field doing rapid needs assessments. And yesterday and today, they've been doing emergency food distributions. What they're describing is real devastation. Yesterday, they were at a damaged hospital where people were still searching through the rubble for missing family, and they themselves had been displaced with houses damaged. And often, people are sleeping outside. They're nervous to go back into homes, even if the buildings are standing because there's been ongoing aftershocks and people just don't know what to expect next.

NK: You were there when the earthquake hit. What do you remember about those moments?

MH: I was in Yangon, on the fifth floor of our office. And a few weeks ago, there had been an earthquake which I thought was some construction movement. And it took a while to register that it was an earthquake. When the one happened on Friday, I kind of realized much sooner. And it seemed to go on for a really long time. It was really unsettling. And in that moment, it seemed like a big earthquake but, of course, I had no idea what impact was to come and the devastation actually that would happen.

NK: Yeah, the journalist we spoke with on Friday's program described it the same way, that it went on for, for so long. And for, even by earthquake standards, it felt very long -- several minutes to her. Since, since Friday, you know, you're already dealing with a situation that was so difficult we've spoken to your colleague Michael Dunford just a couple of weeks ago on our program about the decision to cut aid there when there was already so much need. How does all of that complicate what you need to do right now?

MH: Yeah, really, the situation is just compounding. It's just bringing more and more difficulty for the people of Myanmar. I'm sure, as Michael told you, already before the earthquake, there were some 20 million people in need of humanitarian assistance. Three-point-five million people were already displaced due to conflict over the past four years. And so, now on top of that, we have people displaced again, sleeping outside, services are cut off, access to water is difficult, access to food, communication, road access. So again, people are just dealing with another humanitarian disaster, which is just adding on the challenges they were already facing before Friday.

NK: So, how do your teams deliver aid in those circumstances? And we're also hearing reports the government is not allowing aid to reach certain areas held by the groups that it is fighting.

MH: So, WFP has been here kind of before the ongoing conflict. And in the past four years, our colleagues on the ground, they've been out there in the field in the communities dealing with these same challenges. So, they kind of know well the situation on the ground. So, this is nothing new for them. The focus really -- and always is -- just on getting assistance to people that need food. So, we've already seen food moving out of our warehouses in Yangon and other parts of the country. We've had trucks arriving with emergency food supplies that we've been distributing to people. So, as a humanitarian organization, these challenges aren't new for us. There are things that we're been working against for the past four years. And so, we continue to just do what we can to reach people that need our help.

NK: So, aid is getting, your aid is getting to the people who need it most right now?

MH: Yes, absolutely. So, within 48 hours, we were there delivering assistance, reaching people that needed help, and that those distributions have expanded today and will continue tomorrow. We started in Napidore, and then Sagain, and Shan and tomorrow we'll start in Mandalay. So, we have teams on the ground. At the same time, they're continuing to assess the needs, seeing where people are that need our help. And we'll build our assistance over the coming days and weeks.

NK: And it was interesting to see -- and rare to see -- the leadership in Myanmar issuing a plea last week for international support. That's something it has resisted in the past with disasters there. But at the same time, the conflict goes on. There's no ceasefire there, and there are reports of airstrikes by the military junta on areas held by its opponents. So, how do you keep your team safe and keep that aid flowing? I know you said, obviously, you've worked in this kind of zone before, your teams certainly know what the word challenge means, but have you been given assurances? Do you know that your teams will be safe?

MH: No, I mean, our humanitarian teams are on the frontlines, and they are at risk, you know, when they're out there delivering assistance. So, that is really a concern for us. They're super committed to what they're doing as humanitarians. And so, they do keep working in these really challenging situations. And the truth is, for many of them, they're not only trying to respond to the crisis, but they're also living through it. You know, even with the earthquake, people have lost homes. Before that, with the conflict, family displaced, homes lost. So, people really are resilient, but that wears down over time. And this earthquake really has come at the worst possible time when humanitarian needs are already so high, and the ability to assist was declining with cuts in funding globally. So really, now is the time that the people of Myanmar need help.

NK: Melissa, I appreciate your time, thank you.

MH: Thank you.

CH: That was Melissa Hein, head of communications for the World Food Programme in Myanamar. She's in Yangon. Just a quick note of clarification: on Friday's show, we referred to earthquakes in South East Asia as rare. It's true that quakes as destructive as this one are rare anywhere, but the region itself is part of the Ring of Fire earthquake zone. Thanks to listeners, including one geologist, who pointed that out.

[newsy theme]

Paul Chiang Comments

Guest: Cheuk Kwan

CH: Paul Chiang says he's sorry. The Liberal candidate is apologizing for suggesting that people should try to claim the bounty that China put on Conservative candidate and democracy advocate, Joe Tay. But Mr. Tay says that's not good enough. He says he fears for his safety, and that the Liberals should fire Mr. Chiang. So far though, Liberal Leader Mark Carney is standing by the Ontario candidate.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK CARNEY: Uh, he's made a terrible lapse in, uh...in judgment. He's made an apology for that. Uh, it's also an individual has, uh...has family, uh...in Hong Kong. He's under no illusions about, uh...uh...the situation there -- the situation is broader China. Uh...he's made those apologies. He's made them directly to the individual concerned. He's making directly to me. He has my confidence.

CH: Liberal Leader Mark Carney speaking to reporters earlier today. Cheuk Kwan is the co-chair of the NGO the Toronto Association for Democracy in China. He flagged Mr. Chiang's comments to the English-language media. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: Cheuk, Mark Carney says that Paul Chiang has his confidence. He called this a lapse in judgment, and that echoes what Paul Chiang was saying in his online statements as well. What would you call what happened?

CHEUK KWAN: Alas, the judgment is not the right term to use for this kind of what I call violation or even crime. He's speaking to a Chinese press, and thinking that nobody in the English press would know anything about it. And so, he kind of felt free to speak his mind. And I believe that what he's saying is what he firmly believes. So, in that sense, I don't take that as a good excuse to excuse him.

NK: So, you don't think it's, as some have put it, potentially a bad joke. You believe he was serious?

CK: It's not a bad joke. Even if it's a bad joke, then it is inappropriate for an incumbent politician -- a Canadian citizen -- to be making this kind of joke, even if it was a joke. This is a case of foreign interference and transnational repression. So, it's double whammy -- issues that we've been embracing for a long time. This is beyond misjudgment. This is beyond misquote, and just beyond joking.

NK: As you know, police in Hong Kong issued this bounty back in December for information leading to Joe Tay's arrest. It is worth a million Hong Kong dollars. That's $184,000 CDN. Why was he targeted, do you believe? Why is this bounty on Mr. Tay's head?

CK: You know, actually, Mr. Tay is not even a politician. He was an entertainer when he was in Hong Kong. He immigrated to Canada some time ago, and he happens to have a internet radio station called Radio Free Hong Kong, critical of policies in Hong and China. So, that displeases the Hong Kong government and the Chinese government, and hence their bounties put on him. Now, you know, there are a lot of more people deserving of this bounty. Certainly, Joe Tay is not the priority. So, why in that? It's all about electoral concerns. Because they knew Joe Tay was running as a Conservative candidate a year-and-a-half ago. Joe Tay has been working on his writing, collecting support, and trying to be the next Conservative candidate to oppose Paul Chiang.

NK: We did reach out to Joe Tay for an interview and for comment. He wasn't able to speak with us today. He did issue a statement saying that what has happened is making him fear for his safety. What do you believe would happen to him if he were arrested?

CK: Well, he'll be somehow get his way back to China, but that's not his fear. You know, and I don't think he's going to get arrested here, or being brought into the Chinese consulate. What a lot of people -- hundreds and thousands of us -- are afraid of is that somewhere, some, some place will have the stupid idea that, hey, if I can do something to this individual, I can go and claim my $1 million bounty. And this happens all the time in politics or in other society. I like to say that we haven't seen it yet in Canada, but this is what strikes fear in a lot of us. We'll be very afraid to have our phone tapped, or harassed, to let China or Hong Kong know where we live. This is the kind of thing, the fear that we all are living in, the victims of transnational repression. And I'm not talking about China, I'm talking about Russia, I'm taking about Iran, I am talking potentially India. So, these are forces that we have to be aware of as Canadians. And this is something that we've been urging our government to do something about it. Unfortunately, we don't have the enforcement power. So, you know, I asking for everybody to make sure that our next government -- whoever it is -- needs to make that we are serious on that matter.

NK: He's called his own actions, quote, deplorable, and apologized. You've said that you don't think an apology is enough, but it doesn't appear that Mark Carney is going to drop him from the race, from the ballot on this. So, where does that leave you feeling? How does that leave you feeling?

CK: Right. Well, frustrated because we broke the news in the first place and because he thought -- Mr. Chiang thought -- that he could get by with just speaking to the Chinese media. And there's a whole language firewall where Canadians do not understand Chinese, would not catch this thing. And luckily, we caught it and we brought it up to the English media so that everybody would know.

NK: But surely he knows of groups like yours and others who would be very upset with that kind of commentary?

CK: I mean, I cannot comment. That's his decision-making. And certainly, I can't comment on whether he knows it or not. But certainly, he should have known that there are people watching him ever since he won the last election. And I want to say one more thing. This is not just happening with the Liberal Party. This is happening with the Conservative Party as well. What they are doing right now is they are not appointing any candidates who were outspoken to China. So, this is a total surrender also by the other party. They say, okay, we won't, we just won't appoint anybody to run in this election who might have been critical of China or Hong Kong. So, this is the kind of atmosphere that we are operating under.

NK: Do you think Mr. Chiang, if not asked to step aside, do you want him to volunteer to do that?

CK: I would think that either him or Mark Carney should do the right thing.

NK: Cheuk, I appreciate your time, thank you.

CK: Thank you. You're welcome.

CH: Cheuk Kwan is the co-chair of the Toronto Association for Democracy in China, a human rights NGO. He's in Toronto.

[ambient]

Leeds McD’s Sign

Guest: Steve Lovell

CH: There was something crucial missing from the White Rose Shopping Centre in Leeds, England. And everyone could see that glaring absence right there in the food court, in signs spelling out the name "McDonald's" . In one, the letter "O" was just a circle. It was missing its counter -- which, of course, is the name for the enclosed shape inside a letter. In the other, the capital "D" had the same problem. Counterless. Most people would just stare into the voids left by the missing counters for a moment, perhaps feel an odd pang of confusion or sorrow at the imperfection, and move on with their lives. But Steve Lovell is not most people. We reached him in Leeds.

NK: Steve, that moment you're at the shopping centre, and this sign and its flaws come into focus for you, what was your thought in that first moment?

STEVE LOVELL: Well, I've been walking past that for a while -- every week when I go to the cinema at that shopping centre.

NK: Is annoyance the right word? Is it perfectionism? What about you made the errors in the sign intolerable?

SL: Um, well, it was just a tiny little, um, thing that bothered me, I suppose. But it was not even something that I was, like, really bothered about. But it was just like, ah, you know, I just like to do strange little things that can just improve things sometimes. So, I just thought it was easy to fix, and I did that. And I just then put it onto the, uh, uh, Facebook. And because I'm part of the dull men's group or dull men's club, rather. And from there, people just absolutely went crazy over it, it was quite a surprise.

NK: Well, the comments are so, they're lovely and funny, you know, thank you for your service. People, and that you have photographs as well with this with the security guard. That was my favourite -- the security card pointing out, you know, pointing at the sign and what you've fixed. The dull men's club, some of our listeners may remember we've talked about it before on this show. Remind our listeners what that's all about. I mean, the name tells us a little bit, but, but tell us a bit more

SL: Well, it's quite an interesting page on Facebook because there's all kinds of topics on there from people just trivial little things that have happened in their life or their own interests, which could be quite detailed and fascinating to them, but they might be dull to other people. And people sometimes just go on there and they've found something on the street and they don't know what it is, so they ask the hive mentality of that group as at what things are and so on. Sometimes it's just people just interested in incredibly boring subjects, but, [NK chuckles] or they work in really dull situations. So, I just thought I'd put on something which was a really basic kind of thing, and I'd never really expected it to take off at all. And, I mean, I've done lots of interesting design things in the past, but none of those have ever got me any sort of recognition, but this was just another level.

NK: What, why do you think it hit that level?

SL: Because it was just so small, and pathetic, and unnecessary. And why would anybody go to that degree to actually fix something that nobody really cares about? And I understand that, but it is kind of disappointing at the same time that for all the other things that I've done, this has to be the one that blew up.

NK: Well, it will draw attention to your other design achievements, I'm sure. But this wasn't just, you know, it's not like you cut out a sticker and put it on. This was a multi-stage operation, maybe easy for you, but not easy for others. So, give our listeners the highlights of the timeline and what you had to do.

SL: Well, the first piece was just a small bit of plastic that I did cut out manually, and it wasn't even perfect, but then it disappeared within a couple of days, and a few people had put minor whinges on about it not being absolutely perfect. So, I thought, okay, then no problem. So I went into full dull mode --

NK: Challenge accepted. [chuckling]

SL: Yeah, exactly. So, I went to full dull mode, and got the McDonald's branding guidelines so I'd have the exact vector-based graphic. And then I just put that into a 3D program, and then made it so there'd be a back plate and a front plate with screw holes. And then just did that for two different parts of different signs that had sections missing. So, then I went along to the shopping centre with a small little toolkit, and because they were on board by this time, and they were fine with it because they'd already made me employee of the month despite the fact that I don't work for them. [NK chuckles] So, that was really funny. So yeah, then I just asked for supervision from the security guard so that other people in the shopping centre just wouldn't think that I was vandalizing the place. So, it was really nice just to have them there just to make, you know, lend me some legitimacy, really.

NK: Absolutely. I mean, you thought of everything, really, step-by-step. You talked about this is trivial, or even pathetic is a word you've used, but there's meaning in the trivial, I think.

SL: Yeah, I think. I mean, one person put it as trying to fix the world one tiny detail at a time. And somebody else actually used the phrase gallant pedantry. [NK chuckles] But yeah, I'll take either of those.

NK: Gallant pedantry is quite nice. Do you have advice for someone who is listening and, you know, there's something in their town, they're thinking maybe I should, why should I bother? Should I bother? What would you say to them?

SL: I'd say you'll feel a sense of minor satisfaction out of it, and if you just want to share that with your friends and family, they'll know that it's been done, even if you don't share it with the wider public, and you'll have that tiny little sense of satisfaction. So, if you can make anything better, why not?

NK: A pleasure, Steve. Thank you for this.

SL: You're more than welcome. Thanks very much.

CH: We reached Steve Lovell, proactive freelance sign repairman, in Leeds. For helpful reference, you would have to place 2 million, 350 thousand and 36 Big Macs side-to-side in a north-westerly direction to reach Leeds from Reading. And as you'll know if you've been listening to As It Happens recently, Leeds is not the only place where vintage McDonald's locations are at issue. Last week, we told you the sad tale of the iconic Expo 86 "McBarge" -- the enormous vessel that proudly held a floating McDonald's during the world fair in Vancouver, which is now keeled over in the Fraser River. Strangely, this did not upset our guest, Bob Kronbauer, has been calling for it to be sunk for years. And he told us as much.

SOUNDCLIP

BOB KRONBAUER: My plan -- my idea -- of having it at the bottom of the ocean is further away than it was. [NK chuckles] Because I just reached a point where I figured, this is never going to happen. They're never going turn this into something. Let's sink it.

CH: After we aired our interview with Mr. Kronbauer, we asked you to call Talkback with your own ideas for the "McBarge." And one of you followed instructions…sort of.

SOUNDCLIP

[Ah, the Talkback beep. Alas, I worried my ears would never detect its dulcet tone again]

TOM WILSON: Hi, it's Tom Wilson from Toronto, and I think the first-ever McDonald's underwater should be opened, where I can order a Quarter Flounder with cheese. Thanks

CH: [NK chuckles] Thanks for calling in, Tom. Quarter Flounder with cheese, huh? Nice one. You’re coming for my job? Because I've got ideas too. Big Mack-erel? McRibbit? Frogs live in water! Filet-O-Fish?

NK: Nice!

CH: That one's a thing already. Still: your move, Tom.

[elevator music]

Nessie Meets Boatface

SOUNDCLIP

HARRY BROWN: If the pet name is Nessie --

HOLLY ARNOLD: Yes.

HB: The real name can't be just Loch Ness Monster.

HA: No, the term Loch Ness Monster is what the press have called it, what the media have called it. Most people just refer to them here as the beasts, or the creatures.

CH: So, if you're near Loch Ness, Scotland, don't ask if anyone has seen "the Loch Ness Monster". They'll know you're an out-of-towner, they'll tell you there's no such thing, and they'll charge you the tourist rate for haggis. But if you casually ask some locals, "Och, then, when did ye last see the beasts?", they'll tell you that that very week, one of the beasts returned a pool noodle that had floated off. Or they'll admit there's no such thing, and give you a discount on haggis. That, by the way, was former As It Happens host Harry Brown talking to Holly Arnold of the Loch Ness Investigation Bureau in 1973. A year before that, the LNIB put a camera system underwater in the hopes of getting a shot of Nessie. And when I say "underwater", I mean underwater: it was about 180 metres, or 591 feet, down there. And it would have stayed down there, too, if it weren't for the only submarine that you know the name of. You may be thinking, "But I don't know the names of any submarines." But you do.

SOUNDCLIP

[a montage of people saying Boaty McBoatface]

CH: Boaty McBoatface was performing some trials in Loch Ness when its propeller snagged on something. When the team checked it out, they found a glass container with an old Instamatic flash camera inside that was rigged to go off when a beast took the bait. Amazingly, the camera was still dry. And amazingly, there were some pictures on the film! Unamazingly, though: they were just pictures of murky water. Still, it's neat that the Boaty McBoatface found the camera at all. And poignant that it had seen nothing, when 50-plus years ago, the LNIB had hoped it would turn out to be an eyewit-Nessie….eyewitNessie…

NK: Well done.

CH: Thanks.

[chillhop house tour music]

Part 2: Turkish Youth Delegate, Tariffs: Books

Turkish Youth Delegate

Guest: Enes Hocaoğulları

SOUNDCLIP

[protest chants]

CH: The sound of hundreds of thousands of Turkish protesters, chanting "rights, law, justice" at a demonstration against the continued detention of Istanbul's mayor, Ekrem Imamoğlu, this weekend. Mr. İmamoğlu was arrested on corruption charges last week. He and his supporters say those charges are politically motivated. The opposition Republican People's Party -- or CHP -- went ahead and named him its presidential candidate anyway. And organizers have promised to make the anti-government protests sparked by his arrest a routine occurrence. It's a show of defiance against Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. And young people like Enes Hocaoğulları are central to it. Mr. Hocaoğulları is an organizer and activist who's accustomed to taking to the streets. But today, he's going viral for remarks he made in a very different capacity: as a youth delegate at the Council of Europe's 48th Session of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities in Strasbourg.

SOUNDCLIP

ENES HOCAOĞULLARI: Let me tell you what I learned in that week as a youth delegate. The youth has had enough. We have had enough, and we are ready to go on the streets to regain our freedoms. Fear not, as you don't know what message to convey. The message is ready. It lies in the youth. All you need to do is take that message and forward it to those decision-makers who are not listening to us. Let me tell you as we are running out of time -- both when it comes to my speech and when it comes to saving democracy in Turkey -- if you're looking for a wake-up call, [clapping on a table] this is it. Thank you. [clapping].

CH: Enes Hocaoğulları, speaking to fellow youth delegates at the Council of Europe Congress in Strasbourg last week. We reached Mr. Hocaoğulları today -- back in Ankara, Turkey.

NK: Enes, it's been a few days now since you made that speech. There was a standing ovation that followed it. It's certainly been shared millions and millions of times now. You're back in Ankara, as we've said, back in Turkey. What was it like to return?

EH: Now that I'm back in Turkey, of course, what I feel is a mix of euphoria and stress, not knowing if I'll be detained next hour. But the euphoria definitely overweights. Since for every one message I receive saying I should be put in jail or killed, I get 10 that says they are glad someone has given us a wake-up call.

NK: You've said that you did not go to Strasbourg expecting to give that speech in particular, what changed?

EH: I actually did decide right before this session, since this was the last session, and all I heard in those three days was how everyone was following the developments in Turkey closely. Many diplomats told me that they fear conveying the wrong message. So, I wanted to tell them that the message was ready. And all they needed to do was to take our message and forward it to the authorities. So, I did. It was all very last-minute, and I guess the speech was not the diplomat me speaking, but the activist me. No regrets whatsoever.

NK: Your, your family -- as you were making your trip back -- you know, coming through the airport, were they worried after they saw that speech being shared and reshared?

EH: Yes. I mean, I definitely did not expect it to be the only speech in the session to get a standing ovation. But once it did, on my way back to Turkey, I was anxious about whether I was going to be able to enter the country without detention. My lawyers -- as well as lawyers of so many human rights organizations -- were following real closely.

NK: Are you prepared for that possibility of possible detention? Because we know young people are certainly central to what's happening. And at last count, hundreds of young people have been detained.

EH: Yes, unfortunately, right as we speak, 301 of my peers are in jail waiting for a decision to be made. We are not certain whether I will join them or not. But I am as prepared as I could be, both when it comes to preparing a bag, and telling my mom I love her, as well as preparing myself mentally for such unfortunate result.

NK: Mayor Imamoğlu's detention and subsequent arrest and jailing have certainly, you know, we've covered it on this program, headlines all around the world, people have a general understanding of what's going on, and they see that young people are involved in the protests. What do you want our listeners to know about why so many young people are so vocal? They've been in the past, too, but particularly this time.

EH: I mean, Mayor Imamoğlu has been a key opposition figure against Erdoğan since 2019, but these protests are not necessarily about Imamoğlu alone. The demonstrations focus on issues like media censorship, authoritarianism, freedom of expression, and assembly all together. They are not necessarily only protests for Imamoğlu, but against Erdoğan. One of the things I would like the listeners to really grasp is that the reason why the Turkish youth is so courageous right now is that they have lost their future. They have lost opportunities. But while doing so, they also lost their fear. We have nothing left to be afraid of. So, that's how we are so easily on the streets, fighting for a possibility of a future.

NK: What does that possibility feel like? I mean, there have been protests in the past, as you know. There are many people who support Erdoğan, and his party, and his policies. How do you feel about the climate right now, and the potential for Imamoğlu's release, and the kind of change that you would like to see?

EH: I guess I still feel a bit more optimistic about the possibilities, considering that I'm not a politician, I'm not spending my days in the parliament talking to the same people. I'm always on the streets, I see the hope in the people, I the hope I see in the youth. That's what keeps me still optimistic. And the future -- the possible future -- we are talking about, does not necessarily consist Imamoğlu. It just consists democracy, it consists human rights, its consist a holistic, a human-rights-centred and intersectional future where the rule of law is respected.

NK: Do you see a difference based on your work, both at the council as a youth delegate and as an activist, as you said? Are you seeing a difference this time in the makeup and what people are saying compared to past protests?

EH: I would probably say the biggest difference -- especially in comparison to the Gezi protests in 2013 and 2014, which was the biggest in that decade -- is the intersectionality. Erdoğan has gained so many enemies in the past 10 years that people don't care about their differences anymore. They just care whether you are in favour of Erdoğan, or against Erdoğan. I have never seen such inclusive, such diverse protests in my life. One part is strongly socialists where the vegans are there, LGBTI community is there, feminists are there, and they don't necessarily care whether they are there for their means. They know that they are against Erdoğan, and that's enough for them. Even the slogan CHP is using for these protests is, there is no salvation alone, whether it's altogether or none of us. So, I think in a sense, it makes sense that we've had so much polarization in the country is that the only way to go through this is to get together.

NK: You talked about the platitudes you've been hearing from delegates in Strasbourg. What would you like to hear and see from other countries? What could they realistically do or should they do, if anything?

EH: I would say the main problem in Turkey right now is not the number of people participating in the protests or the profile of the people, but the authorities not caring about the protests. So, what I would suggest to you decision-makers abroad is to urge the Turkish authorities to listen to our needs. And if you're not a decision-maker outside Turkey, I would urge you to contact your decision-makers so that they can speak out against these human rights violations.

NK: Enes, I appreciate your time, please take care.

EH: I will. Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Enes Hocaoğulları is a Turkish youth delegate to the Council of Europe. We reached him in Ankara, Turkey.

[Folk]

Tariffs: Books

Guest: Paul McKay

CH: This is it -- or it might be it, anyway: the week of new Trump tariffs. And in response, the federal government is proposing to impose counter-tariffs on $125 billion dollars' worth of imports from the U.S. That could mean an additional 25 per cent tax on a whole list of consumer goods. And this time around, books are on that list. Until April 2nd, the government is taking feedback on the items that should be considered. And people in the book industry have feedback: take books off the list. Paul McKay is one of them. He's the manager of the independent King's Co-op bookstore. We reached Mr. McKay in Halifax.

NK: Paul, I think a lot of our listeners are a bit familiar with the struggles in publishing and independent bookstores, certainly. But this is something different. This is another layer to that. So, help our listeners understand what this possibility -- this threat -- means to you.

PAUL MCKAY: So, this is basically a move the Canadian government is doing that will kind of decimate the entire Canadian book industry. This will affect Chapters and Indigo, it will affect the small Canadian publishers, and the really large multinational chains as well. Basically, the plan is to have a 25 per cent counter-tariff put on any books that come from the U.S. And that might not sound like a big deal, but the problem is that most books that are sold in Canada are printed or stored in the U.S. So, that ends up being a 25 per cent loss in profit for any bookstore that sells these books.

NK: You posted online about it's not as easy, and we've spoken to other business owners, you know, putting Made in Canada stickers and highlighting that, but you can't do that given what you just said. That complicates things for you.

PM: Yeah, I've likened it to, you know, if you go to the grocery store, you'll see this is a Canadian apple and this is an American apple. And it's just not that simple. So, an example that I've been running with is, you know, Prime Minister Mark Carney's book. You would think that would be an amazing Canadian book that you should buy, but that's actually printed in the U S. So, that one would be subject to tariffs. So, you also run into, there are Canadian authors who are printed in the U.S. So, not buying their books, you know, it takes money away from Canadian authors. Or there are U.S. authors that are printed in Canada. So then, that would be beneficial to buy though, so it's an incredibly tricky thing to do.

NK: You've been nudging folks who follow you and know about your bookstore, do, you know, [chuckle] buy books now -- if you can -- before these counter-tariffs kick in, if they kick in as planned. If they do come through, though, what is it going to mean for your bookstore?

PM: It's gonna mean an awful lot of extra work in trying to decide, okay, which books are subject to these tariffs? Because every publisher is gonna do a different thing with this. Some will try to help us out maybe and eat some of these costs. Others will pass it all on to us. So, we're gonna have to kind of look book by book when this sort of happens. If this happens, you know, bookstores don't have a lot of margin for profit to begin with. So, taking 25 per cent from it will just kind of make it untenable for most bookstories to even exist.

NK: How do you prepare yourself for that, and your shelves, and your staff?

PM: Yeah, it's been really tricky. I've been kind of looking at books that are popular right now and seeing where do they actually come from. Should I get more of these? Should I maybe hold off on some of these? I'm trying to really just kind of educate our customers as much as possible, too, that this is what's coming. These are the types of issues that are going to happen. And there might be increased costs for some of this stuff. Thankfully, we have some great customers, and a lot of people who really see the value in these bookstores like ours, who are willing to kind of help us out. And if a book costs a couple dollars extra, they are willing to pay that. But none of us have any extra income right now. So, even if people are willing to do that, I think that's a very, like, that will run out quite quickly.

NK: And what about young writers, you know, less established writers? What do you think this might mean for them?

PM: I think this is a huge problem for them as well. Because if these tariffs go ahead and bookstores end up closing, then now these writers have fewer places to sell their books. We kind of make fun of ourselves -- and sometimes rightfully so -- that our culture is we're just not American. But if you really think about it, like, we have just some amazing cultural exports in the literary world. We're the country of Margaret Atwood and Michael Ondaatje, Lucy Maud Montgomery, Dion Brand, or Leonard Cohen. We're risking losing those next voices by doing this, I think.

NK: Have you heard anything at this stage from publishers -- big or small?

PM: I have, and it kind of varies. Some are really worried about it, some small Canadian publishers are thinking, well, this is kind of our time. You know, we sell Canadian printed books that everyone will buy these, but I don't think that's the case. Books are not like a fungible product like most things, like if you want a specific book, you're really after that author's very specific voice or that specific story. So, if like The Hunger Games right now, the new book from that series is extremely popular right now. If you wanted that book, there is really no substitute for that. So, I think it's a little short-sighted for anybody to be thinking that this is a good time for anybody.

NK: In the past -- if I'm not mistaken -- books have been exempt from tariffs. What's your sense of why that is not the case, at least at this stage, this time around?

PM: That I'm really not sure of, and I do think they should remain exempt. And so, I will give the government credit that they've put up, you know, this website to get feedback on their suggestions. So, my hope is that when they get this feedback, they'll see, okay, this is not what we wanted to do. You know, we wanted to make, you know, make this hurt the U.S., but this is actually going to kill us instead. And the impact on the U.S., I think, would be negligible.

NK: Your feedback, as well as, you know, you mentioned the wide range of people and companies impacted by this, independent booksellers, the big chains as well. They've come together to write a joint letter to the prime minister about the risks of including books in these counter tariffs as well, and you've been vocal as you've said. Does that give you a sense, I mean, are you hopeful at this stage that you're going to get the exemption you need in time for when you need it?

PM: I am hopeful, yeah, because usually we're on opposite sides of the fence for things. But for this, I think if this happens, we're all going down together. So, I do think this is just an incredible number of jobs that will be lost if this goes forward.

NK: You know, something you said earlier, Paul, has stuck with me through our conversation, you know, how interconnected this industry is, and our two countries are in this particular industry. We see it in others as well, but people may, I think, might just from you be learning how intertwined they are in terms of where books are published, and printed, and stored, and all of that. Does what is happening make you rethink how the industry should work in Canada as other industries have? Or do you think that that kind of Interdependence is something that is beneficial, and should remain in place after all of this settles down?

PM: I think in a perfect world, Canada would be able to print all the books that would be for sale in Canada. But unfortunately, where we're at right now, we just have no ability to do that. So, I think for now, the best thing to do is just not go ahead with these tariffs. And if Canada can look at perhaps changing things in the future, that would be great. But if we go ahead this right now without better processes in place, then we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot.

NK: I'm glad we could speak, Paul. Thanks for this.

PM: Oh, thank you so much.

CH: Paul McKay is the manager of the King's Co-op bookstore. He’s in Halifax.

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NL Church Eid

CH: This past weekend was momentous for the Muslim community in Newfoundland and Labrador. Not only did thousands of people gather to mark Eid al-Fitr -- they were also marking the start of a new chapter for the province's Muslim association. Earlier this month, we told you about the association's move to buy the former Mary Queen of Peace Church in St. John's. The church was one of many Catholic properties being sold off to pay settlement suits for victims of abuse at the Mount Cashel Orphanage. When we reached Muslim association president Haseen Khan, the community was working hard to get the building ready for Eid.

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HASEEN KHAN: The most important thing, the most pleasing thing is that a place of worship will remain a place of worship. We have been looking for a bigger place for quite some time. And our key considerations were the capacity and the location. And this place offers both of those features. So, this will serve the needs of Muslims in St. John's area for decades to come. So, it is amazing, it is exciting, and it is really forward-looking.

NK: You know, Eid is coming up. Obviously, you know well, Haseen. Is, is everything going to be ready? Is it going to be open in time for those celebrations, or will it take a bit longer?

HK: That is what our objective is. It won't be fully ready, but we are trying to make it as functional as we can.

CH: That's Haseen Khan, president of the Muslim Association of Newfoundland and Labrador, speaking to Nil earlier this month. Yesterday, the association welcomed people into the new space.

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HK: So this is a very special day. Yes, we are celebrating Eid, but we are also celebrating praying of Eid first time in this new mosque. And you can see the crowd. There are about over 3,000 people who prayed first time at this place. And there is same number of people waiting outside. So, it's a very a special day for Muslims in Newfoundland and Labrador. They are able to pray under one roof, as one community. So, it is exciting, it is reassuring, and it is pleasing.

JULIA ISRAEL: Yes. I'm sure it makes people feel at home, right? And you say it's about bringing people together. There's enough space for that now is that now -- is that right?

HK: People are very happy. People are excited. People have a sense of ownership. They have a sense of joy that now, they have a place where they can all pray as one group, as one community. S,o we have been hearing so many compliments. And you can see the joy and happiness on the face of all the people who have gathered here. It is amazing. It's beyond words.

JI: And you said you estimate 3,000 people here?

HK: I would say roughly, yes, both males and females, I would say about 3,000 in the first prayer. We scheduled two prayers to kind of accommodate the crowd. And in the second prayer, as you see, that people from first prayer are exiting out, and people for the second prayer are coming in. And we are welcoming them. So, hopefully, we are expecting the same number of people for that second prayer., and that will bring total people who have prayed here to 6,000.

CH: Haseen Khan is the president of the Muslim Association of Newfoundland and Labrador. He was speaking with the CBC's Julia Israel.

[ambient]

Cree Influencer

CH: Today is National Indigenous Language Day -- a day dedicated to promoting the revitalization of Indigenous languages. That's also the mission, day-in and day-out, for one member of the Ochapowace First Nation -- who's using a very contemporary communications tool to keep a language that has been spoken for about 3,000 years alive. Novalee Fox is a Cree language influencer on TikTok.

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NOVALEE FOX: I was spoken in Cree from 0 to 4 from my chapan. That means my great-grandparents. My kukom chapan, she was Cree. My mósom chapan, he was Soto, but they understood each other. There's not much difference in the language, but it's just dialect. But I know what to say, like, what I want in Cree, [speaking: Cree] I need a drink. [speaking: Cree] I need to use the bathroom. So, when I got older, it didn't really get further than that because in our language, we are taught to be humble in our culture, right? And I don't want to just talk about myself. I want to tell a story. I wanna ask people why they're sad. So, that's why decided to carry on that language and learn more.

ADAM HUNTER: When it comes to carrying on the language and passing it on, there's, culturally, there's a big focus on storytelling, and passing on those stories. And so, being able to tell those stories in Cree, it must be something that's a bit goal for you to be able to fully have a story, be able tell a story in that language?

NF: Yes. Okay, this is why I want to learn how to storytell because we have our old trickster. I could say his name right now because there's still snow on the ground. His name is Weesageechak. Some people call him Nana Bush or Nana Boozoo and this and that. But, you know, there's some words in our Cree language that cannot be deciphered in Cree. I mean, yeah, that cannot be deciphered in Cree. So, all our people who aren't learning the language, they're missing out on these teachings. And I don't want them to miss out because it's such a beautiful thing. Because when you miss out on teachings, you're missing on who you are in your identity.

CH: Cree language influencer Novalee Fox talking to Adam Hunter on the Morning Edition in Regina today.

[indie rock]

Part 3: Joanne Liu, Ice Storm Outages,

Joanne Liu

Guest: Joanne Liu

CH: As the former head of Doctors Without Borders, a pediatric emergency physician, and a professor at McGill University in Montreal, Joanne Liu is used to giving unflinching accounts of human suffering around the world. And earlier this month, she was scheduled to do that in a presentation at New York University -- discussing, in part, the impact of Trump Administration cuts to the United States Agency for International Development. The university is Dr. Liu's alma mater. And in addition to unpacking the USAID fallout, her talk was to include a mention of humanitarian worker casualties in Gaza, as a result of the Israel-Hamas war. Then -- the night before it was scheduled to happen -- she got a phone call, cancelling her appearance. Dr. Joanne Liu wrote about that call in a recent column for Le Devoir. We reached her in Montreal.

NK: Doctor, when you got that call the night before your talk was scheduled, what did they tell you about why it was canceled?

JOANNE LIU: Well, basically, there was prior conversation to that. When I landed in New York, I was invited to call the administration of NYU to discuss about my presentation. And basically, they were worried about a few slides in my presentation. One of them was about the, a slide with the number of casualties. in aid worker in last year, 2024. And there were a fair amount of them that happened in Gaza. And the other one was about the USAID cut, and they thought that it could be perceived as anti-governmental.

NK: So, antisemitic on one front was a concern from the school, and anti-governmental on the other, anti-US government based on what you said there. So, were you concerned? Or did you have an inkling that something might be amiss when you were asked to have this conversation?

JL: Oh, absolutely not. Actually, when I called them, and then when the person, the vice chair of education, shared her concern, I just said, okay. All right. I said, I'm cool. I'm flexible. Look at my presentation. gave me suggestions on the slide that he would like me to remove, or to nuance more and I'll be fine. I could see that she was hesitating, so I offered three slides and said, listen, we can take this out. And then she said, let me get back to you. And after that, about three hours afterwards, she come back and just said, she was very sorry about that, very sorry. And I just, I felt, I felt sorry for her because I could tell she was so comfortable. And then she just said, listen, we came to the conclusion after three hours of conversation that we will cancel your conference.

NK: What did you say?

JL: I was stunned, actually. I was stunned because I was sure that she would come back with some remark and things that she would want me to change. And then, I probably will say yes. But I didn't expect that. This is the first time it happens to me my whole life.

NK: What sense do they give you about who might have perceived your slides and be concerned about them, have those perceptions that you talked about?

JL: She didn't name anyone. It was a sort of a, I would say, general comment

NK: Do you think there was anything controversial in those slides?

JL: No, I don't think there was, you know, something controversial because it really depends on what is the narrative that you bring to it? And I've been doing those conversations in the past, and very, I would say, I'm very nuanced about what I say. And then, especially on the slide on casualty, it was a slide that was taken from the Aid Worker Safety Database. And so, those data, we know they're validated. And I just said, listen, it's, because she was concerned because I was not showing the other slide. I said because it's about aid worker, it's not about civilians.

NK: Aid workers who were killed in Gaza, yeah.

JL: Yeah.

NK: Yeah. We did reach out to NYU for a comment on this. They sent us a brief statement, and I'll read it to you and our listeners in its entirety. Quote, guest speakers at our institution are given clear guidelines at the outset. Per our policy, we cannot host speakers who don't comply. In this case, we did fully compensate this guest for her travel and time, unquote. Again, you just said a few moments ago that you were fully willing to make amendments to this if they were concerned. That statement seems to suggest that you were not in compliance with their rules.

JL: Yeah, it's a very odd statement because I was not given clear guidance beforehand. But when they reviewed my presentation, I was more than willing to nuance things and remove slides. And I told them on several occasions, listen, I'm coming here, this is my alumni school, this is the first time you're inviting me after 30 years I graduated from here. This is a time of celebration for me. I'm very happy to be here. I want this moment to be a good moment for everybody.

NK: And for it to end in a statement like that, and conversations like the one we're having, how are you feeling today?

JL: Well, I'm a bit concerned, and I was a bit reluctant to do this kind of interview, but I knew about the statement that they had, and then I just wanted to bring the record straight on that, but I'm not holding grudge on NYU. I think it's the bigger issue that we should address. And the bigger issue is the climate that people are living in right now, and the fact that there's a bit of a sense of concern -- if not fear. And that feeling of fear is really bringing what I call the sort of a preventive over compliance. People are doing more than they should. Some people call it anticipatory obedience because they want to make sure that they will not get reprimanded. I think people were pretty much scarred by what happened to Colombia.

NK: Anticipatory obedience is quite a phrase, and I think some might feel it's a chilling phrase even to hear, but another reason many people are surprised by all of this is that universities are known as bastions of free speech, and debate, and learning. And this is also happening in a city -- New York -- that is certainly known for being outspoken on all sorts of things. So, what do you think will change that climate of fear, as you have described it, Doctor?

JL: I'm not sure if things in terms of climate would change per se, but I would say my motivation to write that op-ed in a newspaper was to warn people that we need to safeguard our universities as a temple of knowledge, but as what I call the temple of cohabitation of different point of views.

NK: Doctor, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

JL: Thank you.

CH: Joanne Liu is a pediatric emergency physician at Sainte-Justine hospital and a professor at McGill University in Montreal. That's where we reached her.

[electronic]

Windsor Tourettes Teen

CH: As a teenager, sometimes it's hard to feel like you fit in. And to be clear, fitting in is overrated. But it is nice to feel seen -- and surrounded by folks who understand you. However old you are. That's why a recent trip to Washington, D.C. was so meaningful for 18-year-old Lily Steinhoff of Windsor, Ontario. She's a student at St. Clair College, and she has Tourette Syndrome -- like pretty much everyone else at this month's Tourette Association of America Advocacy Day gathering. And as she told the CBC, she also has a related condition that leads her to repeat other people's vocalizations -- which made the trip especially interesting.

SOUNDCLIP

LILY STEINHOFF: It was so crazy, I have echolalia, so I was picking up everyone else's tics. So, it was kind of funny. It's like, you have that tic? Oh, I have that tic, too! Or it'd be like, I'd have a tic, and they'd be, like, you gave me that tic, and I'd be oops! [chuckling]

AMY DODGE: It's sort of like when someone sneezes in a room, everybody sneezes.

LS: Yes.

AD: You were diagnosed with Tourette when you were 12, I understand.

LS: Yes.

AD: And since then, you've tried to learn as much as you can about it. What are some of the popular misconceptions?

LS: that it's just swearing. I actually did not have any swearing tics until after Washington. Because my echolalia, I picked up some. I don't have them as much, but that's a big misconception is that everyone swears, and that people with Tourette aren't able to work, aren't able to drive, aren't able to do a lot of things, but I can.

AD: Had you had misconceptions of your own?

LS: When I first got it, it was kind of hard when I was getting diagnosed because I figured it was just a swearing thing. So, it was kinda hard to get diagnosed. I kinda had to break out of that and be like, no, this is, this is more than just swearing.

AD: What are some of your tics?

LS: Some of my tics are, I have, like, a neck tic, I have a clearing my throat tic. [clears throat] Like that. I've recently developed, like, a gasping tic where I'll go, [gasps] like that. [chuckling] That one's kind of funny. And clapping has been my newest one, too.

AD: And how did you go about being diagnosed?

LS: It took me so long to get diagnosed that by the time I finally got diagnosed, it was kind of relieving, but also like, okay, so I'm stuck with this forever now, like I have to live with this now forever. It was kind stressful, but also, like, I wanted to learn about it so I can explain it to people, and met a lot of people on Instagram who also have Tourette, so it made me feel less alone. And just around that time too, there was a show coming out and it was called Raising Tourette's, I'm pretty sure it was call, and so that also helped me not feel alone.

AD: What would you say to another 12-year-old who's being newly diagnosed?

LS: I'd probably say buckle up, it's gonna be a long ride. Learn as much as you can, talk about it as much you can. Advocate. If someone says, oh, what are you doing? Don't just be like, oh I don't know. Cause I used to do that.

AD: So if someone were to say that to you now, how would you respond?

LS: I would say, [clears throat] I'm sorry, I would just say, I have Tourette syndrome, it's part of the neurodevelopmental system, it occurs in the brain and the nervous system, um, it means I make movements and sounds I cannot control. So, I just want it to be out there, I want it to be a more known thing, so that if a kid starts to tic, it is not like, what's wrong with you? It's like, oh, this could be something like a tic disorder.

CH: Lily Steinhoff is training as a rising leader and advocate with the Tourette Association of America. She was talking with CBC Windsor's Amy Dodge.

[uke!!]

Ice Storm Outages

Guest: Angie Reed

CH: Temperatures are warming up in Peterborough, Ontario, today, after a series of cold nights. But the city is still under a state of emergency, after freezing rain downed trees, encrusted everything in thick layers of ice -- and cut off power for tens of thousands of people. Peterborough isn't the only city without electricity. According to Ontario's provincial utility, Hydro One, as of 3 today, nearly 400,000 households and businesses across the province had no power. Tiziana Baccega Rosa is a spokesperson for Hydro One. She told Ontario Morning crews are working to restore electricity as fast as they can.

SOUNDCLIP

TIZIANA BACCEGA ROSA: And we're seeing a decrease now. We're currently at 358,000. I know that doesn't seem like something to celebrate, but, you know, the fact that this is the first day crews can actually work without more adverse weather causing additional outages is something to be acknowledged.

CH: That was Tiziana Baccega Rosa with Hydro One this morning. Angie Reed is looking at Day Three without power. We reached her in Peterborough, Ontario, earlier today.

NK: Angie, as you look out your window right now, what does your street look like?

ANGIE REED: [chuckling] Lots of debris, lots of trees down, and when we're talking about trees down it's not just branches, some trees are just, like, split in half from the weight of all the ice.

NK: And what about inside?

AR: Well, it's a little bit chilly, but we're managing. Luckily, we have a gas stove, so we're able to make coffee and do a little cooking. Luckily, it is not very cold either, so we are able to keep relatively warm.

NK: You're laughing now and again, so it sounds like you're trying to keep your spirits up, and succeeding at that. [AR chuckles] So, that, that's good, good to hear. But, but this is not an easy situation for you, and, and a lot of people, certainly, out there. At what point between Friday night and Sunday night, as hours and hours of freezing rain kept falling and falling, I think for 30 hours, the freezing rain was falling. At what point did you guys lose power?

AR: I don't know, maybe 6, something like that. I'd gone out, and shopped, and tried to be a little bit prepared. [laughing].

NK: This is on Friday?

AR: Yeah, as prepared as you can get.

NK: Okay. And so, you have not had power since Friday evening?

AR: We have not, no. And it makes it a little bit difficult because, I mean, all of us now are so dependent on our cell phone. It's not like we can just pick up the phone and tell our loved ones how we're doing. My work is involved with my phone, right? All the apps are on our phones for where we're going and what we're dong. What I've been doing is driving my car down to places that do have internet because we don't have that either, and sort of like getting online for a minute and being able to check in with people.

NK: I think that's how you were able to post on Facebook. You were able to find one spot that had power. How many of you are in your household?

AR: In my house, one, two, three, four, five. My son lives in the south end, and he was not affected. He's had hydro the whole time, so we were able to go over there last night and sort of barge up our things, and get ourselves warm, and, you know, have that family camaraderie. [chuckling] But they also did not have internet, so, we had to be a little more inventive.

NK: And the work that you're mentioning, the work that you do, you're a home care worker, you help take care of seniors who need that help. What's your sense of how they're doing, and how others who would be considered vulnerable, how they're faring?

AR: That's a huge concern, right? I mean, I'm pretty good at bouncing back, like you said, and trying to make the best of these situations. Like, two years ago when we had the big wind storm, we were out of power for five days. That was super difficult. But yeah, you think about the people that are in a vulnerable state, or older, or may not have a vehicle to go and check out somebody else's internet or charge their things up. The people that I've been looking after, fortunately, have been able to go to the homes of loved ones, so that they are not left in their homes without heat, hydro, light. So, I'm happy that my particular client has been able get past it without too much trouble.

NK: That's good to hear. You know, there were, I did see on the, you know, the weather apps and Environment Canada warning about, about all this, this freezing rain that was said to fall. And as you said, you were trying to prepare as best you can. But do you feel there were enough things in place, enough warnings to make sure, you know, everyone was as safe as possible?

AR: I think from my perspective, there were. You can only do what you can do, right? We're all probably badgering the hydro company, like, [both chuckle] we want our heat back on, we need our electricity. But I mean, you look at all of the communities that have been affected, we're in a state of emergency in many places. So, I think everybody's doing, really, the best that they can, and gave us the opportunity to prepare as best we could, so that we could be ready for the worst case scenario.

NK: What are you hearing in terms of when power might be restored? [AR chuckles] When you ask Hydro nicely, I'm sure you're not badgering them at all.

AR: Well, I'm sure it feels like it to them when they're getting, you know, millions of calls.

NK: You're within your rights of trying to find out, I think.

AR: Yeah. But, I mean, how do they know either, right? So, our first estimate was last night at 6, and then our next estimate was tonight at 6. But sort of, as yesterday would have progressed, they would have had more and more outages. It's not as simple as the initial hit of the storm. The weight on the trees is going to affect things going forward until there's no more damage. And then, they've got to go around and clear the streets of debris so the emergency vehicles can get by. I mean, it's such a big process. It's not simple as just electricity, right?

NK: You know, you mentioned you were, you try to get out and find internet when you can. I know you were at a diner earlier today. What is it like navigating those, those streets? Because it's quite a vivid picture you painted earlier in our conversation.

AR: The work crews have definitely been out and, and really doing their due diligence. Most of the streets have access to get in and out. I mean, you can see huge tree limbs that have been cleared away to make the roads safe for people to get in and out. A lot of traffic lights are out. So, I think there's a big onus on the public to be really careful about what they're doing, and, um, knock on wood, we didn't see, I think, more than one accident in the time that we were out. So, hopefully, everybody's being careful out there.

NK: I hope so, too. Did you see lots of people, or was it, was it really quiet? Were you one of the few?

AR: Oh no, there were lots of people out. I'd forgotten to get extra candles. And luckily, there was a store open in the mall. They have a big grocery as well. So, I was able to get the things that I needed in there. And you could see all the people in the mall that were trying to charge things up, that were just trying to get out, [chuckling] get warm for a little while, and get out of the dark house where nothing's happening. And the food court was crazy. [laughing].

NK: I bet.

AR: Busy, busy, busy. But, you know, people are just trying to find a little bit of normality. [chuckling]

NK: That's understandable. Angie, I'm glad you and your family are doing well, as well as can be expected under the circumstances. I appreciate your time, Angie. Thank you.

AR: Oh, you're welcome.

CH: Angie Reed has no power, after a freezing rain storm in parts of Ontario over the weekend. We reached her earlier today in Peterborough, Ontario.

[folk]

FOA: NL Church Locked

CH: The locks are still changed on Holy Rosary church in Portugal Cove South. And now the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and Labrador is getting involved. The Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of St. John's has applied to prevent anyone from blocking access to that property, after the locals changed the locks to prevent it from being sold. Like the recently-sold Newfoundland church we told you about earlier, this one is for sale because the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. John's needs to pay $104 million in settlements for years of sexual abuse at the notorious Mount Cashel orphanage. But longtime Portugal Cove South mayor Clarence Molloy doesn't think it's right to sell. In September, Nil asked him why.

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CLARENCE MOLLOY: Well, we feel that we, after raising 134 thousand dollars to repair to this church, just in the last few years and right now that they're selling the church, apparently for 48 thousand, it's gone down from 79. And, you know, there's a real they're very hard thoughts that the church is going for that price after we just spend the money that we did to renovate the church. If we didn't do the renovation it wouldn't be for sale because it wouldn't be worth anything.

NK: We mentioned you've been mayor there for nearly five decades now. And I wonder what kind of memories and moments this church, you know, hold in your heart and mind.

CM: Well, I've been, I was born in Portugal Cove South my father was born there, my grandfather was born there, my great grandfather was born in 1840. People moved there in the early 1800s. And for fishing purposes, it's a lovely, great place to fish. The best place on the southern shore. And they moved from [inaudible] and different places that they were living. And it was easier. You were on the fishing grounds and they looked after the community. They built their homes, built the church. And, you know, so we feel this is our church and there's nobody buying it.

NK: As our listeners have heard, the profits from selling this church are supposed to go towards the settlement for victims of the abuse at the Mount Cashel Orphanage. Archbishop Peter Hunt told CBC News all Catholics must, quote, accept the hurt and consequences of the sins committed against the innocent, unquote. This money is supposed to help those victims, as we mentioned. Does that give you pause, Mayor?

CM: Well, we support for the people that were abused to get paid. They should have been paid years ago. But we didn't abuse anybody. Nobody in our community. And we don't feel our church for what they're selling our church for would you know... They're still looking there was over 100 million dollars they're looking for. So far, they've raised 43 they still owe over 60 some million dollars. So, there's a long ways to go yet before those people get paid. But I'm all in favour and so are the people in our community. For those people to be taken care of and should be done years ago.

NK: It's obviously a pretty big statement, a big stand to change the locks. How long are you willing to keep this going?

CM: Well, as long as it takes. You know, this is the way we feel but since we came out and opened about this, we've had people call from different parts of Canada, people call from other communities in support of us. And you know, we even had a person call us from B.C. offering to pay for the church and give it to us.

NK: So, you might take them up on that?

CM: No, I don't think, like we don't figure that we should pay for a church that we own.

NK: That principle you mentioned.

CM: I don't know what the future... What could happen down the future down in the, you know, future if we have to do something. I don't know but right now it's our church.

CH: From last September, that was Clarence Molloy, the mayor of Portugal Cove South, speaking with Nil about Holy Rosary church. The Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of St. John's is now seeking a court order to stop anyone from blocking access to that property.

[brittpop]

Nemahsis

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NEMAHSIS: This is dedicated to all the hijabis that are. [clapping and cheering] I've been wearing hijab for 20-plus years, and all I ever wanted was to turn on Family Channel, YTV, and just see somebody that looks like me.

CH: That's Nemahsis, after winning the Juno for Breakthrough Artist of the Year -- one of two awards the Palestinian-Canadian artist won last night. Those awards are an extra-big deal because her label dropped her in 2023, saying there was no way to market her album. The album that won her legions of new fans, and those two Junos. Last year, Nemahsis independently released Verbathim, which has won over critics -- and won her that second Juno -- for alternative album of the year. Here's Nemahsis accepting that award:

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NEMAHSIS: Tonight, we've covered feminism. We've covered the effects we've had on global warming. But everybody's failed to mention the elephant in the room: the Palestinian that's in the room. [clapping and cheering] I look around in this room, and the people I relate most to are the Indigenous people. Because I, too, am Indigenous somewhere. And I can't even perform this album there yet. I want to thank my manager, Chaz Bryan. Because when I was dropped, and left stranded with no label, no nothing, end of 2023, I had nobody but my parents and Chaz standing by me, and we didn't even know if this album was going to come out. Tonight, I heard so many labels being thanked, so many labels being mentioned. Labels have money, money pays for spots, pays for albums. [music swells] I'm being cut off. [crowd cheers "keep going"] Artists need money to make art. I was cut off and left with nothing. And this album still came out because of you, Chaz, because of my parents, and the people of Palestine. I will perform this album there, and I love you.

CH: Toronto artist Nemahsis speaking last night, after picking up the Juno for Alternative Album of the Year for Verbathim.

The AIH Transcript For March 31

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