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The AIH transcript for May 2, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Wheels of misfortune. As GM gets set to cut production at its plant in Oshawa, Ontario, the national president of Unifor calls on the company -- and the country -- to put their support behind workers.

CH: Empty promises. A new tax on vacation homes, or primarily unoccupied houses, is dividing the town of Canmore, Alberta. The mayor defends the plan -- and takes some time to drive his home points home.

NK: Uniformly shocking. Reports that Brazil's soccer team might soon don red jerseys, spark outrage; a sports journalist there tells us how the shirt is hitting the fans.

CH: Born to be rewilded. A team of Mexican researchers released critically endangered axolotls born in captivity into the wild -- and to their relief, the ever-smiling salamanders seem genuinely happy in their new home.

NK: She kissed a girl and she liked it. And she sang about it way before Katy Perry did. We remember Jill Sobule, the groundbreaking singer-songwriter behind the original hit called "I Kissed a Girl".

CH: And...it's a bop-ularity contest -- and we're losing. Scientists show that a sea lion named Ronan can bob her noggin to a rhythm -- and she doesn't miss a beat, especially if the tune is Boogie Wonderland.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday Edition. Radio that knows you can't spell "discovery" without "disco".

[theme]

Part 1: Oshawa GM Cuts, Brazilian Red Jerseys, Dancing Sea Lion

Oshawa GM Cuts

Guest: Lana Payne

CH: Today, in his first news conference since winning Monday's election, Prime Minister Mark Carney announced that he'll be meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump early next week. He said the meeting will focus on trade and security. And for auto workers in Canada, that meeting can't come soon enough. General Motors has announced plans to reduce production at its plant in Oshawa, Ontario, citing a, quote, "evolving trade environment", unquote. Starting this fall, the company will cut one of three shifts at the facility. The plant employs roughly three thousand people -- and their union, Unifor, is warning the cut will amount to hundreds of Canadian jobs lost. Prime Minister Mark Carney addressed the situation at the news conference today.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK CARNEY: We are in a crisis. You know, if you look at, I mean, the terrible manifestation of that today in Oshawa for the GM workers, you know, 2,000 GM workers. And I'll just express my deepest sympathy for them and their families, a very difficult time. We are committed to supporting workers. All the dollars from our tariffs going to support workers. Fighting hard for our auto sector, all our sectors in these negotiations with the Americans, and making sure that companies act in true partnership as well in maintaining employment and investment in Canada. And if not, there will be consequences for those companies.

CH: Lana Payne is the national president of Unifor. We reached her in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador.

NK: Lana Payne, do those words from Prime Minister Carney reassure you at all in this moment?

LANA PAYNE: I mean, the prime minister is talking about two things there. One, that the money that the revenue that we collect from reciprocal tariffs on the United States, counter-tariffs on the United States, will be used to support working people. And my answer to that is that we need to make sure we do everything we can to keep people working. And the second thing, that we expect and have expectations of corporations who have access to our market in Canada. I think it's really important right now, this whole trade situation is at a critical point. And unfortunately, you know, General Motors made this decision before our Prime Minister even had a chance to sit down with the President of the United States.

NK: But in terms of consequences specifically, what would those consequences look like ideally for you if they had to come?

LP: I mean, I think the reality is that we have invested in the auto industry as a country and we need to make sure that these companies are living up to the commitments that they've made to the federal government and the provincial government. So, the review of those commitments must occur. Secondly, we as a union supported the idea that if you build in Canada and you maintain your footprint in Canada, that you would not be subjected to tariffs from the Canadian government. And now, what we see is a company that's gone back and they're reducing their footprint. So, the reality is, now do we say to them, okay, you had an exemption because you were building in Canada. Yes, you are going to continue to build but not at the same level. What does that penalty look like? And that's definitely the kind of carrot/stick approach that we recommended to the government. And now, they have an avenue to do something here. And thirdly, you know, I think it's really important that the prime minister pull these automakers together, the CEOs, and lay it down for them that as a country, we have support at the auto industry for a lot of reasons. The main one being that Canadians buy cars and trucks in this country. And that if you expect to have access to the Canadian market we expect you to build here and have a manufacturing footprint here. We've got to protect what we've got here until we get a resolution to the trade war.

NK: What are you hearing from your members in Oshawa?

LP: Yeah, it's a tough day. I've talked to our local leaders. We've met with them. Our local leaders have met with our members. I have to say, this is the worst kind of news you can get. You go to work one day and you're told that you're not going to have a job in six months there. And so, immediately, they're worried about their families. And by the way, it's members, workers inside the plant, but it's also about 1,500 in the supply chain. That's our estimate in terms of what would be tied to this one shift. So, we're well into the, you know, 2,000 workers being impacted here. So, it's huge. And they're worried. But also, they're willing to fight. And they know that this kind of decision potentially was coming because we have been warning of it as a union. The reality is we have no choice here but to fight day in and day out, including me asking for a one-on-one with the CEO of General Motors right now to sit down with her and say, look, Canada's not the problem. And we need you not to make long-term decisions in the middle of this trade war, as we're trying to work our way through it. We need you to stay the course. We need you to support Canadian workers. We need you to support Canada because Canada has been supporting you.

NK: Have you received a response in terms of that meeting?

LP: Yes, I believe we're going to have a meeting fairly soon within the next couple of weeks.

NK: Is that encouraging to you?

LP: It is. It's encouraging because the response was quick. I firmly believe that this was a short-sighted decision. And General Motors has a lot at risk. They have a very big market in Canada. And one of the things I'll be saying to them is, look, Canadians are in a mood right now. And that mood is that they're willing to punish corporations or the United States more generally because of this attack that we're under. And you need to be aware of the mood of Canadians, and that's going to play, I think, a large factor into this.

NK: And General Motors, we should say, did confirm to our CBC News colleagues that 700 workers would be affected. Notably, they did not use the word layoffs. And in a statement to CBC News, a spokesperson for GM said the change would, quote, help support a sustainable manufacturing footprint as GM reorients the Oshawa plant to build more trucks in Canada for Canadian customers, unquote. What do you think the company's plan is?

LP: [chuckle] There's a lot of words there, isn't there? [both chuckle] They've told us clearly the third shift is gone, that's 700 workers. If they're going to be, my question to them would be is: if you're going recalibrate, or whatever word it is that they're using, the Oshawa plant to tailor it to Canadian sales, then does that mean they're going to be building 300,000 vehicles in Canada? Because someone should ask that.

NK: And when you sit down for that meeting, when you're finished in a couple of weeks speaking to the head of GM, what would you want to hear to make that meeting feel like a success for you and the workers?

LP: I would want to hear that they are fully committed to Canada. I would like to hear they are committed to Canadian workers. I would want to hear, you know, that this is a footprint that is important to them. And that they're going to reverse this decision and make sure that we have a robust three-shift operation in Oshawa.

NK: Lana, I appreciate your time thank you.

LP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

CH: Lana Payne is Unifor's national president. We reached her inSt. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador.

[ambient]

Brazilian Red Jerseys

Guest: Júlia Belas Trindade

CH: When it comes to football -- as in soccer -- Brazil is the world's winningest country. And it won its five FIFA World Cups in its classic, much-loved yellow and green jerseys. So, you can imagine the consternation in Brazil when, this week, a rumour started circulating that the Brazilian men's soccer team was contemplating making its secondary jerseys red. Well, you can't. But trust me: there was extreme consternation. The information came from Footy Headlines, a website known for accurately leaking details about soccer uniforms. And in the ensuing backlash, the Brazilian Football Confederation released a statement denying the reports, and stressing that nothing official has been released. Júlia Belas Trindade is a Brazilian sports journalist and freelance soccer writer. We reached her in Salvador, Brazil.

NK: Júlia, when you first started seeing these reports and saw that red jersey or the idea of a potentially red jersey, what words came out of your mouth?

JÚLIA BELAS TRINDADE: I was surprised, to say the least. I think that looking at the Brazilian flag and the Brazilian aspect of wearing the yellow jersey when you play, it's something different, for sure. So, it was really surprising.

NK: And did you anticipate the kind of reaction that there has been now to this?

JBT: Yes, 100 per cent. Just to give some context about, you know, Brazilian politics. Recently, over the past few years, the yellow jersey has been heavily connected to, you know, far-right movements and to the former president Bolsonaro. His supporters would wear their yellow jersey when they went to protests and they went to, you know, rallies. And red was the colour that people in the left chose to wear in their protest, so it's quite shocking to see that they proposed or there's the possibility of having the two colours of the political spectrum in Brazil.

NK: And so, the next question that comes up is: why would this even be floated or leaked? You know, why do you think that there's even a suggestion of this?

JBT: Honestly, the Brazilian population hasn't necessarily been supporting the national team for a while because of political reasons, but also because of the lack of results, especially not winning a World Cup for so many years. And I don't know, I think that's maybe an attempt to try to bring some of these people back and to bring their money back as well, as consumers, as people who will buy jerseys. But, at the same time, the repercussion has been really, really bad.

NK: It sounds like it backfired.

JBT: Yes, 100 per cent. And it's not the best moment to do it because Brazil haven't even qualified -- properly qualified -- for the World Cup yet. So, you know, and the chances are high that they are going to qualify. But they have been struggling football-wise. And for the Brazilian population, it's been like, okay, but focus on the football for now. Maybe if we go, then we can talk about the jersey.

NK: We know that the confederation there has said that these supposed uniforms are not official. That's one of the quotes they've given. The outlet -- Footy Headlines -- that put this out is still standing by, saying that, and they've been right before as I understand it, that this red is locked in. What kinds of things have people been saying?

JBT: In the statute of the confederation's, it states that jerseys have to be of colours that are present in the Brazilian flag -- so, yellow, green, blue, or white. You have the permission to have commemorative jerseys every now and then. So, for example, a couple of years ago, Brazil played in black in a campaign against racism in football. But, at the same time, it's a really high bet in a really difficult moment. So, that's basically what people are feeling. And also, you know, all of the political associations. And I don't imagine they will continue with that, even if they had the idea. But if they do, then the marketing campaign has to be really, really good to navigate this.

NK: You mentioned, you know, the people who didn't want to wear the regular, you know, well-known jerseys because of political associations. Are they happy about this design? Has anyone spoken up in favour of it?

JBT: Yes, I've seen especially on social media people are saying now I can buy a jersey again, now I can wear. They are saying that it's a connection, you know, that 2026, it's the year of the presidential election. So, people are joking saying that Nike and the Brazilian Federation will be selling jerseys for both sides of the political spectrum, which would be, you know, quite funny to see. And I don't know, maybe it's an idea for them to bring back this connection with the national team. But, at the same time, there are some people who are happy with it just to have a different colour

NK: Do you think that Team Brazil players will ever walk out in the red jerseys onto the World Cup pitch?

JBT: I don't think they will. I think the repercussion was too controversial in a year that it would be even more controversial in the World Cup that we are not necessarily expecting great results. So, I think if they had this idea, they will backtrack. But if they do, it will be a really interesting moment.

NK: For you and other football fans around the world, I mean, it's not a surprise that fans are passionate, and that the game can be tied up with politics sometimes. But what does the level of reaction to just this idea, what should we take away from that about what is happening in Brazil?

JBT: There's this idea, especially when you talk about football, you know, you cannot connect it to politics and you cannot, the players say that quite a lot. They often, you know, proclaim their vote, or talk about their values and politically talk about their values. But whenever they speak up about politics, people are like, stick to football, stick to playing, stick to the pitch. You are not a political agent. But, at the same time, in Brazil, football has always been such a huge part of politics. We've had football being used as a tool to promote the military dictatorship and being used as a tool to fight the military dictatorship, for example. Just the fact that the Bolsonaro supporters chose to wear the national team jersey as their symbol is already a huge statement to the power of football. And players saying that they supported his campaign. Neymar used to speak up quite a lot. They did live broadcasts on social media with Bolsonaro. They stated their support to Bolsonaro. So, especially with the men's team, it has been heavily connected to politics for so many years. So, it just shows that once again, politics are really, really ingrained in football, not only in Brazil, but in the world.

NK: Júlia, I'm very glad we could speak. Thank you for this.

JBT: Thank you so much.

CH: Júlia Belas Trindade is a Brazilian sports journalist and freelance soccer writer. We reached her in Salvador, Brazil.

[calypso]

Dancing Sea Lion

Guest: Peter Cook

CH: It was a revelation -- something never before witnessed by humankind: about a decade ago, for the first time, researchers found they could train a non-human mammal to keep a beat. Before, only parrots had managed that beat feat. But this, this was a sea lion, named Ronan -- who bobbed her head in time to a rhythm track, with the incentive of a fishy treat. And she did it with remarkable accuracy. But as the years went by, some wondered whether that had just been a fluke. So, lead researcher Peter Cook -- a behavioural neuroscientist with the New College of Florida -- devised a new study to test Ronan again. The results were published yesterday. We reached him in Sarasota, Florida.

NK: Peter, we're, of course, going to talk about the results of this new study, but let's get a visual first. What does Ronan look like when she's keeping a beat?

PETER COOK: Yeah, so first, if you haven't seen a lot of sea lions, she's sort of a typical adult female sea lion, so about, like, 73, 74 kilos, pretty sleek, streamlined, so she can cut through the water, but giant buggy eyeballs. [NK cuckles] So, sea lions have huge eyeballs for seeing in low light for hunting underwater. And when she's going to take part in an experimental session -- including a rhythm session -- you know, Ronan is really a professional. So, she just, like, she knows the score, every setup is different [NK chuckles] and she knows what she's going to do. When we let her, she comes up, she stations on the ramp comfortably, sort of holds statues still, and she is just waiting for any sound to start. And as soon as it does, the head starts going.

NK: You were one of the researchers who studied Ronin about a decade ago as well. So, when you look at the results this time around, what are the differences?

PC: I'll just emphasize, when we first studied rhythm with Ronan, we were really blown away. I mean, certainly including me -- and actually, I think much of the scientific community -- was blown away by how good at keeping a beat she was. So, I do want to emphasize that from very near the beginning, Ronan was really quite a skilled beatkeeper. But, you know, there was a little bit of variability, bob to bob, beat to beat, that maybe was a bit higher than what you see in a typical human experiment. And, you know, when we tested her this time, we were very curious, now that she's fully grown and sort of in full control of her faculties, no longer a little kid, has had more experience with this task, what would it look like? And she was just remarkably precise. Yeah, I mean, she was [chuckling] even more precise than I think we who are great proponents of Ronan thought she would be. [NK chuckles] She was truly just on the mark.

NK: And how precise are we talking about?

PC: Bob to bob, beat to beat, Ronan's variability now is about 15 milliseconds. So, she hits almost at exactly the same place in relation to the beat each time. Fifteen milliseconds is really short. Maybe we don't normally have to think about periods that short, but it's about like a tenth of a human eye blink, so it's really precise.

NK: [chuckling] Give us a bit more detail about how you were conducting this research.

PC: The way that we run the experiments with her is really clean. We remove all the humans and all the extraneous cues from the environment. So, we just want Ronan to interact with what we're giving her, and in sort of a clean and un-influenced way as possible. So, a human is watching her, sort of through a blind, essentially. And as soon as the sound starts playing and Ronan starts moving, they have a criteria and they have a set number of good bob she has to make in a row before they're going to blow a whistle to tell Ronan she's done the right thing. And then, the fish will fly in from heaven and Ronan gets her fish. [NK chuckles] But it really is just her, [chuckle] the setup, and the beat.

NK: I'm a decent dancer. I know some good dancers.

PC: Sure.

NK: There are a lot of people who cannot keep a beat. What about the volunteers involved in all of this?

PC: We thought it was really important to directly test Ronan against humans. We got typical humans, not trained musicians, but just typical humans who've been listening to music and dancing and singing their whole lives -- like, eventually, all humans do. And we had them wave their arms to the same beats we gave Ronan and we looked at their variability. There were a couple of humans who were good, not quite as good as Ronan, but good. But the human variability on average was about three times as great as what Ronan showed. So, she was really kind of in a league of her own.

NK: [chuckling] This is fun and fascinating, obviously. But as a neuroscientist, what's most intriguing to you?

PC: So, I've been looking at Ronin and rhythm for over a decade now. But my interest is really not predominantly in music. People always ask me if I'm a musician, or if I am really super into musicology or something. I'm really not. I'm just a typical human who enjoys music. But what I'm interested in is animal behaviour, and how complex animal behaviour allows animals to interact with complex environments. So, when I look at this behaviour, and this is really the way I've been thinking about it, yeah, humans have music. Music is super interesting, super interesting cultural artifact. It has rhythm in it. But what's rhythm really about, right? Rhythm is predictable sounds in time. And if you can notice a pattern, predict the next event, and then match your behaviour in relation to that prediction, it's kind of a superpower. It essentially lets you know what's going to happen before it happens, right? So, what I think we've really uncovered here with Ronan, and which might be broadly spread across many different species, is an ability to notice and learn a pattern and then make predictions about that pattern so that she can achieve what she wants in her environment. So, imagine a wild sea lion swimming through the ocean, trying to match its flipper strokes to, like, the pattern of the wave so it's more efficient. Or imagine a sea lion chasing a fish and the fish is undulating rhythmically as it tries to escape. And if the sea lion can predict where the fish is going and when it gets there, then the sea lion could catch the fish, right? If you think of it that way, if you think about it really broadly, then rhythm is just one aspect of noticing patterns in time and predicting what's going to happen.

NK: And not just a human ability.

PC: A hundred per cent. And I would say that there's certainly unique human abilities that relate to some of the complexity of music and language. But I really think Ronan is our best scientific case so far for the fact that rhythm, just basic ability to notice recurring temporal patterns, is not unique to humans.

NK: There is a particular song Ronan appears to really enjoy or respond to. [chuckling] Tell us about it.

PC: For sure, we've given Ronan many different sounds to bob to over the years, including music, which he's quite good at. We have not done a comprehensive assessment [chuckling] of Ronan's musical preferences. But without question, the one song she got that she essentially showed the most interest in and the most focus and sort of precision with from the very beginning was [chuckling] Boogie Wonderland by Earth, Wind & Fire. I don't want to say she loves that song, but she really, really locked in on that song. [NK chuckles] And, impressively, that is recorded in the studio by live humans. And because of that, it changes tempo over the course of the song, it speeds up, it slows down, and Ronan just sticks right on it through the whole thing.

NK: Disco Diva Ronin

PC: [chuckling] Yeah, there you go.

NK: [chuckling] Peter, a pleasure, thank you.

PC: Yeah, thanks for your time.

CH: Peter Cook is a behavioural neuroscientist with the New College of Florida. We reached him in Sarasota.

[disco]

Jill Sobule Obit

CH: Katy Perry kissed a girl in 2008. A few years ago, Dove Cameron said she could "could be a better boyfriend than him." And Billie Eilish is currently eating that girl for lunch. But before queer motifs staked out that kind of territory in the upper echelons of the pop music charts, there was Jill Sobule -- and her song I Kissed a Girl. In 1995, it became what is widely considered the first song with openly gay themes to crack the Billboard Top 20. Jill Sobule died yesterday in a house fire. She was 66 years old. Here she is in a TEDX conversation reflecting on some of the reaction to the song.

SOUNDCLIP

JILL SOBULE: At that time in '95, it was banned on a few stations. There was one station that put a disclaimer in case you had kids in the car to warn you to shut it off. But it also freaked out my record label because we did a video, if anyone saw it, did a really hysterical video with Fabio. The idea of the video is I was gonna actually have a kiss, and it was gonna be the first with another girl, and it's gonna be first one on MTV, or TV at all, I don't know. But then, the last minute, the label chickened out and they made me pregnant with Fabio's baby.

CH: Jill Sobule in a TEDX conversation earlier this year. I Kissed a Girl helped launch a three-decade career, in which Ms. Sobule tackled topics including the death penalty and anorexia in her music, and remained much-loved by a devoted fan base.

[pop]

Part 2: Canmore Property Tax, Axolotl Released

Canmore Property Tax

Guest: Sean Krausert

CH: A lot of people dream of owning a vacation home in the Rocky Mountains. But meanwhile, in the mountain town of Canmore, Alberta, locals dream of owning a home, period. So, last year, the town released plans to tax owners of vacation homes whose owners are away most of the time, to tackle its housing affordability crisis, which rivals the crisis in cities like Vancouver and Toronto. Not everyone liked that plan; some people challenged it in court. But now, an Alberta court has ruled that Canmore can go ahead with that tax next year. Sean Krausert is the mayor of Canmore, Alberta.

NK: Mayor Krausert, other cities, as you know, call this a vacant property tax. You call it a livability tax. Why?

SEAN KRAUSERT: We believe that every residence in Canmore should be part of the solution, either providing a home for a primary resident, or paying more so that we can produce some non-market homes that will be able to help our livability situation in Canmore. The cost of living is so high, and it's being driven by the high cost of land, and therefore, the high costs of housing.

NK: And how much is this tax?

SK: So, basically, if you own a residence -- whether it's a tourist home, or a second home -- that does not house a primary resident, then you will pay the non-residential tax rate. So, the median assessed home, it will go from just over $2,000 a year in municipal taxes to just over $6,000.

NK: And how many owners in Canmore are going to have to pay this, do you think, at this stage?

SK: We have 25 per cent of our residential stock does not house a primary resident. And so, it's a significant number of homeowners.

NK: That's not, yeah, it is not a small percentage, as you said. I think as people hear that, their eyebrows might go up. What kind of impact does that have on the sense of community there?

SK: Some homes and some streets are relatively dark during the week, or at certain times a year. But the more important thing is what impact it's gonna have going forward. And we can look at an example of communities in Colorado, California, Nevada, B.C. The price of land gets so high that they're out of reach for the average person. And so, more and more, it's second homes. And, eventually, you get to the point where you don't have young families, you don't have schools, you don't have professionals. All of your employees are coming from outside into work and then leave at the end of the work day. The nature of the community changes entirely.

NK: What is it like, for our listeners outside of Canmore, what are renters, or even buyers, facing in terms of housing, the cost of it?

SK: If you're renting, for just a small rental, you're in the high $2,000s per month. If you're buying, whether it be a condo at a median assessed value of $800,000, or a single family home at over $1.4 million, for the average person, that's a massive mortgage.

NK: When I say, you know, when I mentioned the eyebrows being raised earlier, there's certainly on the other side of things many people who are not happy at all and are angry. In fact, they've challenged you in court saying this tax unfairly targets faithful long-time taxpayers. And will not, in their view, improve the affordability problems in Canmore. There's a group, as you know, but I'll tell our listeners, Fair Future Canmore, Stephen Ross in that statement writes, quote, the lack of leadership shown by town council and their willingness to pit residents against each other demonstrates a real need for change. Unquote. Are you worried that, actually, taking this action is going to hurt the sense of community?

SK: You know, I have a very different opinion than that statement and those who would oppose this. This is actually the result of extremely well thought out and considered leadership. We don't take these decisions lightly. And, in fact, the divide is already there. The divide between those who can afford to buy a home -- and, let's face it, a second home -- is far different than those who are in our community trying to be there working two, three, or four jobs in a family in order to maintain and have their only home. I get it. It's a change, it's difficult, but this has not been done lightly. This has been many years -- in fact, decades -- in the coming, and we need to do this for the sake of our community.

NK: Well, throughout those years, as you were, you know, brainstorming different ideas, workshopping them, were other things considered -- what were they?

SK: You know, we've tried lots of different things, different types of properties, limiting size. We have a manufactured home neighbourhood, but those properties are now going for a million dollars each. Everything that has come to the market, whether it was entry level or special discount for local buyers, all of them have appreciated with the market at incredible rates and not been accessible past the first owner or two to the average person. The only thing that's worked are non-market inventories. So, this is both rental and ownership that's offered to the market at below market prices and then maintains its non-market value because it doesn't appreciate with the market. We need more of them at a rate and a volume like we've never seen before. So, that's why we need to have a source of revenue that will be able to address this need.

NK: The revenue from this tax, how is that money going to be used?

SK: It will pay for itself. So, there is an administrative cost in about the seven or eight per cent range, and all of the rest of it is going to be used to either build homes, or developing infrastructure that will allow a piece of land to be developed. For example, Canmore Community Housing owns a piece of property that can't be fully developed until we do some steep creek mitigation to prevent steep creek overland flooding. And so, some of the money can be used for that project in order to make that land available to be developed. It will go directly to solving the problem. So, for those who say that it does nothing to impact housing are completely wrong. The money that's going to be used, it's going to be help Canmore produce probably in the neighbourhood of 2,000 non-market units over the next several years.

NK: Mayor, I appreciate your time, thank you.

SK: I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show.

CH: Sean Krausert is the mayor of Canmore, Alberta. That's where we reached him.

[ambient]

Mable Elmore

CH: British Columbians are coming together today to grieve. The provincial government has declared it an official day of remembrance and mourning for the victims of the Lapu Lapu Day festival attack -- a tragedy that has broken the hearts of the Filipino community, and people across the country. Mable Elmore is the NDP MLA for Vancouver-Kensington. She's also of Filipino descent. This morning, she told the CBC how she was coping.

[sc]

MABLE ELMORE: I remain heartbroken. I've been visiting the families and the victims who have been impacted. But I would say I'm determined with members of the Filipino community and broader community to support the victims and to ensure that people are supported moving forward.

STEPHEN QUINN: You were there when this horrific incident took place. You actually played an active part in the aftermath. Can you tell us about that?

ME: We just had a photo with volunteers moments before the car came through. There were frantic calls on the radio. I brought the ambulance on site, apprehended the driver, and handed him over to the Vancouver police when they arrived. And then my team and my office, we used our, my office just steps away from the location, as a crisis centre. And have been pretty much going 24-7 there since that day.

SQ: And when you say apprehended, there's videotape of you next to the suspect. What was going on at that moment?

ME: The crowd was very angry, and understandably. I told people that I didn't want to see any more tragedy with, understandably, just the anger for other folks to be implicated in just the tragedy. So, we had to wait for the Vancouver police to arrive to take him into custody.

SQ: And I don't want you to have to relive it, but I can't imagine the aftermath.

ME: It was unbelievable. We were there, and all of the volunteers who worked to put on a great festival, and folks enjoyed it. And I'm really proud of them. They were there to support the victims, they worked with the first responders, I want to thank the first responders who were on scene, and the team of volunteers supported people, brought them into my office to provide support. That night we didn't sleep, and those folks have been continuing. They've taken time off work, and they've been working every day to support the community, ensure that resources are in place, and to provide that support. So, the community has really come together, and we appreciate the outpouring of support across British Columbia.

SQ: And were any of your volunteers among the injured?

ME: Yes, I have a couple of volunteers that still remain in hospital. And I've been visiting them, and they're taking visitors. Some were injured and have been released. We're also undertaking counseling. That's my message. Anybody who's being impacted, reach out, don't be isolated, ask for help. Help is there. But also, those who witnessed it. It's incredible trauma for those folks in the broader community. So, I appreciate the support from all levels of government to really ensure that support is in place. This is a collective tragedy, but we will also come together collectively and heal together. So, today's intended as the provincial day of remembrance and mourning for all British Columbians to come together, to mourn, to grieve, to think of the victims, but also to heal. And I think that's the message. We will get through this.

CH: B.C. MLA Mable Elmore speaking with the CBC's Stephen Quinn -- the host of The Early Edition.

[sombre light rock]

Axolotl Released

Guest: Alejandra Ramos González

CH: There are thousands of them in aquariums and laboratories. And there are a surprising number of stuffed versions of them in children's bedrooms, considering they're amphibians. But in the wild, it's a different story. Axolotls are salamanders with especially fascinating faces that are native to Mexico -- where they're critically endangered. So, when a team of researchers released a group of captivity-bred axolotls into the wild, they weren't sure how they'd fare. But according to a new study, the creatures thrived. Alejandra Ramos González is the lead researcher of the study and a professor of biology at the Autonomous University of Baja California. We reached her in Ensenada, Mexico.

NK: Alejandra, when you released these axolotls into the wild -- 18 of them, if I'm not mistaken -- were you optimistic about their chances?

ALEJANDRA RAMOS GONÁLEZ: Well, we had done a pilot study with two individuals and they did well, but this was more ambitious because there were a lot more of them and it was in two different sites. So, yeah, we were optimistic, but always a bit nervous.

NK: Because there are challenges, obviously. What were those obstacles that they're up against out there?

ARG: Yes. Well, the obstacles are that these animals, they come from captivity. So, they have never hunted in the wild and they have never been exposed to predators. So, we were afraid that they could be eaten up by a bunch of stuff like there's snakes, and there's bigger fish, and there are water birds. So, we're a bit scared of that. Also, we were not sure they would be able to hunt wild prey. Because, in captivity, when you feed them, it also comes from captivity. And this prey has never seen a predator before. So, they're fairly easy to catch.

NK: So, at the end of the 40 days, you know, that's how long you would release them for, at the end of your study, how are they doing?

ARG: They were doing great. The ones that we were able to recapture, they had gained weight and they were pretty healthy, even better than when we released them because they had increased in weight.

NK: Did you feel proud in that moment?

ARG: Yes. Oh my god, we were so excited about that. That was, like, amazing.

NK: And how did you during those 40 days monitor their progress?

ARG: We had a big team of volunteers and we used radio telemetry. We put a little transmitter in each of the axolotls and each of them had a unique frequency. So, we were able to find each of almost daily, at different times of the day. So, we knew exactly where they were and what they were doing, what movements were they having.

NK: What do you think happened to the ones you haven't been able to recapture?

ARG: They're pretty smart, so we were not able to recapture all of them. But I'm sure they did really okay because they got to stay out in the lake or in the restored canal.

NK: They enjoy their freedom. They like the taste of freedom, clearly

ARG: Yes, exactly. Yes, yes.

NK: You know this, but they're certainly very popular right now. Stuffed animals or toys, I'm hearing from colleagues with children. But for those who have never encountered an axolotl, what does it look like?

ARG: The one most people think about is the white axolotl, so it's this white salamander that has, like, red fluffy gills. They have this impression that they're smiling. [both chuckle]

NK: Do you think that's why they're so popular now?

ARG: You know what? I want to do research to find out exactly why they're so popular, but I've been really amazed from all the love the NK: axolotls have around the world. I really cannot say what exactly makes them so popular. But I'm really happy that they're loved around the world.

NK: Why do you care about them so much? Why did you decide to do this research?

ARG: I'm an animal lover. I've loved animals all my life. Like, when I was a little kid, I never wanted dolls. I always wanted animals. So, for me, it was really, really easy to fall in love with them. I got involved with them because one day, I went on the local university bus and I found a colleague that I hadn't seen in years and she was working with axolotls, but she was in biomedicine. So she asked me if I wanted to go to her lab to see the axolotls? And I said yes. She had so many cute axolotls that I just fell in love with them. [NK chuckles]

NK: They were all smiling at you. [chuckling].

ARG: Yes! And she she had, like, lots of little babies and they're so cute. [chuckle]

NK: But the ones you were working with are not that typical white one that you described.

ARG: Exactly. So, the difference is the white ones that many people know about were taken out of Xochimilco over a hundred years ago. It was when French researchers went to Xochimilco and they found the axolotls and they liked them so much that they took them back to France. And then, they started using them for research. And the ones we work with, they're the ones, that are like darker in colour. We have them in captivity too, but they haven't been in captivity for as long, like, they're more wild.

NK: In Mexico, they are endangered.

ARG: Yes.

NK: And what are people there telling you? Because they're beloved there and they have deep meaning for people there. It's not just the smile.

ARG: People here in Mexico, we love them because they're part of our culture. They go back from when the Aztecs were still in Mexico City, in Mexico Valley. And then, I visited my niece in Philadelphia, and she loved them. And I gave a talk in her elementary school.

NK: Oh yeah?

ARG: And also, for her Girl Scout group, and the kids just absolutely loved them. And they knew quite a lot about them.

NK: Why do you think the ones you released thrived in the way they did?

ARG: Something we noticed is that when we first released them, they have a lot of exploratory behaviour where they're probably getting to know the habitat. So, they were probably able to find the best spots to be able to refuge during the day. And then, find the spots where they could find prey and avoid predators.

NK: If this is, you know, one step in terms of helping an endangered species, what are the next steps? What do you hope this research will help do to help repopulate them?

ARG: Right now, Dr. Luis Zambrano, he's doing a census. First of all, we need to see how many axolotls actually remain in Xochimilco. And if there is not many of them, which is what we suspect, but we have to confirm, the next step, hopefully, would be to create other refuges, like the ones Luis Zamrano created. Because it was in these refuges that they were able to survive and hunt and pray. But what I didn't say is the water quality where we released them is pretty good because they did a huge effort on restoration. They wouldn't have done well if we had just released them in other parts of Xochimilco. We need to restore a lot more Xochimilco to have a bigger area where we can have a large population of axolotls.

NK: Alejandra, a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

ARG: No, thank you so much. Thank you, and hi to people in Canada. Thank you so much.

CH: Alejandra Ramos González is the lead researcher on a study on captivity-bred axolotls released in the wild. We reached her in Ensenada, Mexico.

[funk]

Furey Last Day

SOUNDCLIP

ANDREW FUREY: You need to be bold. You need to be courageous. You need to have the strength of your convictions, despite criticism. But you also have to be wise enough to understand and appreciate the voice of the people in helping to mold those convictions and your vision for the province. I also learned that this job can be lonely, you know? The successes have many champions, but the failures, you're often sat here alone in this office, wondering if you made the right move and the right decision. I've been grateful to have the incredible support of family and friends. But more broadly, that requires a different type of strength. And I'd like to think that I've grown as a leader because of the opportunity afforded by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and the trust that they put in me. With respect to regrets or things that I should have handled, or could have handled, differently. I can think of two immediately. First of all, it was early in my tenure when we were doing, and amidst COVID, I could have handled the relationship with Innu in particular differently during the rate mitigation announcement and process. The second thing is with respect to the crab protests last year. We were always willing and wanting to work with the people that had issues. And for whatever reason, it was directed at the government. [chuckles] When, really, it's between the processors and the fishermen and the harvesters. That said, that got out of hand very quick. And we were always wanting to allow for more competition and some of the demands at the time that they requested, but had to do it in a logical and reasonable way, waiting for quotas, for example. But I'm not sure what I would have done differently. But I do have regret that it escalated to the level that it did if there was some way that I could have prevented it.

CH: That was the outgoing premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, Andrew Furey, talking to CBC reporter Jenn White. The provincial Liberal party will choose a new leader tomorrow.

The AIH Transcript For May 2, 2025

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