Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2024

The AIH Transcript for November 01, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Love thy neighbour. In the heart of Pennsylvania, a local pastor makes her final appeal to her congregants before the presidential election. From a church overlooking the swing states capitol building.

CH: Both sides just say no. Calgary Council says it won't weigh in on the future of the city's only supervised drug consumption site. And the province says it can't do anything without the city's input.

NK: Bettor judgement. People across the U.S. are anxious and even frightened as Tuesday's election approaches. But on the election betting market, it's just one big lucrative party.

CH: Cruelty free is not free. The only lab in Canada working to find alternatives to animal testing is set to close its doors unless the federal government puts its money where its mouth is.

NK: Them's the bricks. And a Scottish man who has collected thousands of them makes the case for opening a museum that is dedicated to them, but not necessarily made out of them.

CH: And could it happen here, I cheddar to think. A suspect is arrested in the UK after the shocking heist of 950 wheels of cheddar and trying to find it now is nothing more than a wild goose cheese. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that knows the cheese is gone, but the suspect can still be grilled.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: PA. Capitol Church, Windsor Animal Testing, Biggest Brick Collection, Cheese Theft Arrest

PA. Capitol Church

Guest: Anna Layman Knox

CH: It's almost over. On this final weekend before the U.S. presidential election, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump will do their last campaigning. And at her church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Reverend Anna Layman Knox is preparing to give her last pre-election Sunday sermon. Her church, Grace United Methodist, sits beside the Pennsylvania state capitol. In the lead up to the election she's had a very literal window into the political divide in her community. And as her congregation prepares to cast its ballots, she's urging them to put peace first. We reached Reverend Layman Knox in Harrisburg.

NK: Pastor Anna, it is such a tight race ahead of this election, certainly in Pennsylvania in this final push before Tuesday. What are your congregants telling you about how they're feeling?

ANNA LAYMAN KNOX: There is certainly a tension in the air. People at times feeling a bit of helplessness. You know, we have the power to vote, but that doesn't always mean that it feels powerful. Right. And so just a lot of wondering, a lot of questions about how to respond, not knowing if the results will even be clear when they emerge. And so, yeah, I would call it just a bit of a tension in the air.

NK: Your church has a unique perspective on everything that's unfolding in that it overlooks the state capitol. What have you seen as you looked out on that Capitol over the last several months?

ALK: So, the Capitol is open to the public in a beautiful way. It's kind of at the centre of the city, and it is always been, in my experience, a place of gathering for all kinds of different political points of view. And that has certainly been the case over the last few months. I have seen and heard every different type of political perspective, protest and gather down the street past my office and then on the Capitol steps. And that is, we consider that to be a good thing, that there can be that free expression. But there have also been a few instances of people acting in more of an intentionally intimidating way. We are aware in the city that that has happened and are hopeful that that will not be the perspective of most people following the election. Yeah.

NK: There was a neo-Nazi march, as I understand it, recently there as well.

ALK: There was yeah, that's the one that I'm particularly thinking of. It was very small. It seems to have been instigated by people not from our area. But yeah. Right before our worship service, actually, the Sunday after it happened, a congregant pulled me aside and showed me the video of it. And it was a devastating moment for her and for me.

NK: And what do you say to them in that moment as you both watch it, shocked by what's unfolding in your city?

ALK: Yeah. Well, usually and in that moment, too, what I say is that, my goodness, we need to be praying for those people as we talk about as clergy. It's kind of a, seems to be an act of desperation. And, you know, they were wearing sort of ski masks and things. And so, any time I think anyone is hiding their identity in a moment where they're trying to make a point, that's incredibly problematic.

NK: You are part of a group of faith, faith leaders as well called Choices and Voices for Peace. You held your own gathering outside the Capitol recently. Was that in direct response to the kinds of things you've been seeing because it seems like you feel that faith leaders really have a responsibility to get involved at this point?

ALK: We do. Yeah. I think it's a desire to make a public statement that that all faiths really share this desire for God's greater peace and unity to emerge and for us all to be a part of that and for us intentionally to take actions that seek peace with one another.

NK: And you've erected sort of a monument, if I can call it that, to that idea. After you were approached by another group, can you tell our listeners how people are responding to what you've erected there?

ALK: We have. It's a peace pole. Which is part of a wider worldwide project called The Peace Pole Project. It has a words of peace in six different languages around the pole. And so our hope together as a community has been that anytime anyone passes by our church, heading to the Capitol to advocate for a particular cause, that they will have this touchstone truly like a tangible reminder that we can ground ourselves in and reach for as we're working toward this shared vision together, to, you know, if we are in a fit of rage as we're walking past it, that there can be this symbol that calls us back to something, something deeper and more hopeful.

NK: You are said to, of course, give a sermon and in just a couple of days. Can you give us a sense of what you're planning to say?

ALK: So, in addition to being the Sunday before election day is also All Saints Sunday. And so, we will be recognizing people of faith who have gone before us, who have endured all kinds of tumultuous things in their lives and continued on this path of peace and wholeness. We'll also be talking about grief. And I will discuss in the midst of that the reality of grief over these elections, even before they've happened. Recognizing that there will be many people on all sides that will be grieving the outcome. And that we kind of pre grieve and hold lots of anxiety as we go into this moment and that that grief is very heavy and when it's not spoken about in public and in intentional ways, it can kind of fester. And so, what does it look like for us as a community, as people in relationship with family and friends and neighbours, really to bring that grief out into the light, right. To put it in its proper place.

NK: Have you let yourself imagine, Pastor, what the scene outside the capital that you look out on to so often, what kinds of scenes might play out next Wednesday, the day after election day?

ALK: Yeah. I suppose I have allowed myself to imagine a lot of things. I believe deeply that we have the capacity for goodness. And so, my hope is, is still that people will find a way to show one another deep kindness across these divides. But I also know it's a reality that there could be unrest and even potentially violence. And in the midst of that, I hope that we will not be deterred from this work of peace. There may be deep pain that happens in the midst of that, but the work of peace cannot be stopped.

NK: Pastor Anna, I appreciate your time. Please take care.

ALK: Thank you. You, too.

CH: Reverend Anna Layman Knox is the pastor at Grace United Methodist Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Windsor Animal Testing

Guest: Charu Chandrasekera

CH: The Trudeau government has promised to phase out toxicity testing on animals by 2035. But the head of a lab devoted to finding alternatives for those kinds of tests says that pledge is on shaky ground. The Canadian Centre for Alternatives to Animal Methods is based at the University of Windsor. Today, its last facility is shutting its doors because it doesn't have federal funding to carry out its mission. It had already been relying on university support and when that ran out, so did the lab's ability to do its work. Now, Charu Chandrasekera is calling on the federal government to step up and fill the gap. She's the founder and executive director of the lab. And we reached her in Windsor, Ontario.

NK: Charu, I know we're reaching you inside your lab right now? What do you see around you?

CHARU CHANDRASEKERA: It is definitely difficult to describe what I see around me. It was once a vibrant national centre that filled a gaping void in Canada. The mood is very sombre here. I see boxes everywhere and so many different equipment a 3D human tissue bio printer all packed up in boxes.

NK: It's an emotional day.

CC: It is a very emotional day. This is not just a research facility. It represented Canada's commitment to 21st century scientific innovation and ethical standing with benefits that extend beyond animal welfare to human health and environmental protection for generations to come.

NK: This was the only animal free toxicity centre in Canada, as I understand it. For our listeners who may be just learning about what your centre was doing, what was happening inside that lab until now.

CC: We were developing and validating and promoting the acceptance of non-animal methods for chemical toxicity testing for drug development through multiple partnerships with government regulators like Health Canada and industry groups and academics and non-profit organizations, both nationally and internationally.

NK: What kinds of, you know, just practically speaking, you know, if our listeners had come in when it was active, what would they have seen you and your colleagues actually doing, carrying out?

CC: They would have seen a 3D bioprinter, where we used to print human tissue for toxicity testing. We created the liver in a dish, lung toxicity in a dish. One of our lung models will actually be used for a chemical safety validation study by Health Canada in the near future. They would have seen us replacing animal products in research and they would have seen excited young aspiring Canadian scientists learning to think outside the cage.

NK: Similar labs in other countries the U.S., UK, throughout the EU as well. There is government funding for those kinds of labs. Why was that not the case for yours?

CC: This is a question that I would actually like to ask as well. Every time I give a talk, whether in Canada or abroad, everyone's asking me these questions why Canada is lagging behind. And I don't really know why, what were the reason is.

NK: Could though, you know, if we look at the other side of things, given that this kind of research is happening in all of those places that I just mentioned, could Canada not just adopt the methods developed at those labs? Why do you feel that doing original research in a lab like yours is crucial?

CC: I mean, of course we can wait for other countries to do this and follow along, or we can actually become a leader and play an active role to steer the future of protecting our health and our environment in collaboration with global partners. We have a lot of brilliant scientists in this country, industry groups and even government regulators who are very willing to do this work. It's just that we don't have the funding.

NK: You have been able to keep your doors open and the lab active to this point by securing private donations. Is that something that you considered continuing? What happened on that front?

CC: Absolutely. We have had many Canadians who have stepped forward to establish this centre. For example, the Eric Margolis Family Foundation made 1.7 million donation and many other Canadians who have come to help this. But in the long run, it is not sustainable with big philanthropy contributions. All these other centres around the world are federally funded. The Netherlands, for example, just committed 124.5 million euros over the next ten years for their national efforts to phase out chemical testing on animals. Why can't Canada do the same?

NK: The Federal government here has said it does want to phase out this kind of toxicity testing in animals. As we mentioned, it passed legislation to try to do that to, quote, replace, reduce or refine the use of vertebrate animals in toxicity testing where possible, unquote. So, does that not suggest to you that at least you share the same goal, that the government shares, the same goal that you have?

CC: Absolutely. The government has all the right intentions, but without any funding, we're not going to achieve that goal.

NK: Is there any hint to you, since you've spoken out about your last days in the lab that federal funding might be restored?

CC: I'm really hoping that federal funding will come through, especially given that we now have new legislation. We have a national strategic roadmap developed by Health Canada. We are ideally positioned to take a leadership role. And I am really hoping that the government will come through on their promise to make this happen.

NK: And you've said if funding were to come through again, federal funding. You would want to relocate from Windsor to Ottawa. Why?

CC: I think Ottawa is sort of the place to be to strengthen our interactions with the federal regulators, especially in light of this new strategic road map. And the centre could provide critical expertise, infrastructure, innovation and capacity building to support this transition and play a key role in research and data generation using non-animal methods and training the next generation of scientists. And it's sort of the national hub where we can bring government, industry, academics and non-profit organizations together.

NK: If money doesn't come through, what's going to happen to the research you've done up until this point?

CC: I feel sad to answer that question. I'm not exactly sure. I still, I don't want to think about that possibility. To me, the centre is not dead. It's just on life support. We can still revive it and make it a thriving centre with an infusion of sustainable long term funding, especially from our government.

NK: Charu, I appreciate your time. Take care.

CC: Thank you very much.

CH: Charu Chandrasekera is the founder and executive director of the Canadian Centre for Alternatives to Animal Methods at the University of Windsor. That's where we reached her. We contacted Health Canada for comment on this story, but we didn't hear back before airtime.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Biggest Brick Collection

Guest: Mark Cranston

CH: We've covered a lot of weird museums on this show. Just last week, we brought you the story of a forthcoming barbecue museum in Kansas, which we added to our interviews about the Poo Museum, the Toilet Seat Museum, the Penis Museum and the Vagina Museum. We do so many museum stories that in last week's museum story I commented on how many museum stories we have done. But even on my very extensive museum bingo card, I did not have bricks. I, the things you build brick buildings out of the things that retired police officer Mark Cranston wants to dedicate an entire museum to. We reached Mr. Cranston in Jedburgh, Scotland.

NK: Mark, if we could come visit the stables in your backyard and take a look around, what exactly would we see there?

MARK CRANSTON: The stables are full from floor to ceiling with bricks of various description sizes and shapes. [NK: How many?] What I did was, there's about four thousand in there, along with some associated products from Brickworks. Brickworks didn't just make bricks. They made all sorts of things from chimney pots and pipes and all sorts of things.

NK: And specifically, Scottish bricks.

MC: I did, yes, when I started in 2010, because I'm so close to the English border, I did start collecting bricks from over the border, but soon realized I couldn't do the English bricks justice because there were so many of those. So, I decided to concentrate on the home made bricks, if you like. But you have a phone, 400, 500 English and Welsh bricks up here, you know, foreign bricks as well. I've got bricks from America, Canada, Russia, places like that that have been brought back across to Britain.

NK: Well, what happened in 2010 that got you started on this path in the first place?

MC: That's when it all started. Yes. [laughter] So in 2010, it was basically I'd never given a brick a second glance, really, to be honest. And I just needed a brick to hold the shed door open in the garden. And I knew I had some in the cottage, dug them out, and for the first time I realized there were some names on them. I looked at the first name and it said Whitehill researched it online, found a bit of information. And from there I was kind of hooked into looking for more.

NK: What was it that hooked you?

MC: I think, I phoned the National Museum of Scotland. And they said they had 350 bricks on their books, you know, in the storerooms as such. So, I thought, well, that's maybe all there, you know, are for Scotland, different names, etc... So, I went out looking for bricks one weekend and I came back with 18 or so that weren't on the museum list. So, I realized that that list wasn't very comprehensive. So, then it just piqued my interest, you know, how many bricks are there because nobody really knows. So, I just kept going out and bringing more back and bringing more back. [chuckling]

NK: And next thing you know, overnight you have four thousand bricks.

MC: Yeah. But it's the history behind them because they've all got a story, you know, where they were made, why were they made there? Who made them? What were they made for? Where did they end up? You know, and there's so many different clays and types of bricks. And I didn't notice at the beginning. But, you know, I've learnt so many different styles and compositions and uses and it's just fascinating. It's a niche, a niche way of collecting industrial history basically.

NK: Is there is there's something very unique about Scottish bricks? I know you were saying it sounds like logistics really played a big part in the kinds of bricks you were collecting in terms of where you live. But since you've dedicated your time to Scottish bricks, largely, what have they revealed to you?

MC: There's all sorts of different bricks building bricks which are basically made from red clay. There's not a lot goes into it. You know, you make the clay in a brick, basically, but then there's fire bricks. You know, fire bricks come in many shapes and sizes and they're made from fireclay. So, the fireclay bricks were basically heat resistant, so they didn't break down as readily as a red clay brick would when subjected to extreme heat. So, they discovered that you could use them, you know, to build furnaces and stoves and kilns, and they wouldn't crack like a normal brick would. So, Scotland had an extremely valuable fireclay seam there the quality of it was exceptional. So, the bricks that were made from there, and it was a huge seam went on for decades and decades from different companies. And these bricks were then exported all over the world.

NK: You have a few favourites, I can imagine.

MC: Yeah, Yeah. I've got favourites for many reasons. You know, you can have a favourite just because of the design it or you know, where it was found. But yeah, I've got some bricks that left a ship in Glasgow in 1878 bound for Hawaii. Didn't make it. They hit a reef and ended up in the bottom of the sea and they were found by archaeologists in 2015. And after some to and from and back and forward and research and that they decided to donate them back to Scotland. So, they sit in a shelf in my study so there's not many bricks have gone from Scotland to Hawaii and back.

NK: I bet. I bet.

NK: What do your friends and family think of this huge collection you've amassed?

MC: Yeah. The fine. They know it keeps me out of trouble. So that's, that's a good thing. But my dad's really into it, he's into industrial history as well, so. So, yeah. No, no. Very supportive.

NK: It's something you can share. You started a website just to let our listeners know, cataloguing all of this so you go out and find them, but people are sending them to you or pointing you to where you should go. Right?

MC: So, because there was no sort of comprehensive list, I discovered that obviously through the museum when I first started, I decided that every brick that I found or my colleague in arms Ian Suddaby found, who's an archaeologist. He was recording bricks and saving bricks as well. We put in a website, so it's Scottishbrickhistory.co.uk So all the bricks are listed there, anybody else that finds a Scottish brick that we don't have or haven't found will get listed in there as well. If we hear about it or they get in touch with us. So, the idea is it's the most comprehensive list available for research and education purposes, and it gets used a real lot by academics and archaeologists all around the world. It's quite fascinating.

NK: Well, how does the brickworks, the existing brickworks museum, feel about all of this? I know you have many more bricks than they do. [MC: laughter] Was there a rivalry?

MC: No. No, I don't think there's any rivalry. But no know, they've been in touch about various things because, you know, they sometimes get bricks sent to them and they contact me or they'll look up the website and they'll drop me an email and say, oh we've got this one. You want to put it on your list? So, there's no rivalry.

NK: You want to build your own, though, you and Ian?

MC: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a story that needs to be told. It just hasn't been told. And it was so important to Scotland at one point. So, it's a great story to tell. And I get people wanting to come and see the bricks here just in the stables, in the gardens. The amount of emails I get all the time from enthusiasts and academics and archaeologists and whatever and wherever. There's definitely a liking of the brick. So, the idea is that we have a museum at some point.

NK: Will it be made of Scottish bricks?

MC: Ah... Probably be a plastic museum these days. [chuckles]

NK: You can change that.

MC: Well, I could yes. They're full of character. They're warm. And, you know, they've just got so much life about them.

NK: Mark, pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

MC: Okay. My pleasure. Thank you.

CH: Mark Cranston is a collector who has thousands of bricks in his backyard. We reached him in Jedburgh, Scotland.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

Cheese Theft Arrest

CH: It was a heartless act of chicanery in which some ne'er do wells wound up holding all the curds. It's time for another chilling instalment of...

[Music: AIH Cheese Crime theme]

CH: There's no way of knowing what the weather was like in London, England, on October 21st. Not without doing some research. But even if it was sunny, someone was about to rain on a major British cheese sellers parade on that feta-ful day. Sorry, that fateful, I mixed up the 'a' and the 'e' master cheese bandits pilfered 950 wheels of cheddar from Neal's Yard Dairy, worth the equivalent of more than half a million dollars Canadian. And they did it in the most cunning way possible. They had it delivered. [Music: Cheese Crime Theme] These rapscallions convinced Neal's Yard Dairy in London that they were representatives of a giant French retailer. So, the cheddars were handed over to the underhanded thieves. And by the time Neal's realized what had o-curd, I already, I already did a curd joke sorry. It was too late. The wheels had already come off. By which I mean the wheels of cheddar had come off the soil of the United Kingdom. It's believed they wound up in the Middle East or Russia, where they'll be sold to the highest bidder or melted down for nachos. [Music: Cheese Crime Theme]. Yesterday, detectives arrested an as yet unidentified 63 year old man suspected of playing an as yet undisclosed role in this shocking cheese crime. But even if he crumbles under interrogation like the very aged cheddars he allegedly helped to purloin, nothing will bring them back. Farewell, cheese. You will be remembered fondue-ly.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 2: Calgary Safe Injection Opt-Out, B.C. Super Lab Bust, Election Betting Guy, Springsteen Ghostbusters

Calgary Safe Injection Opt-Out

Guest: Dan Williams

CH: It's something of an intergovernmental stalemate. This week, Calgary's city council declined to give its opinion on what should happen to the only supervised drug consumption site in the city, saying it's a provincial responsibility. But the province says it doesn't want to make any moves without input from the city. In the middle are Calgarians on both sides of the issue. Some rallied to support the facility earlier this week, while others want it moved, citing concerns about public safety, crime and disorder. Dan Williams is Alberta's minister for mental Health and Addiction. We reached him in Red Deer.

NK: Minister, I know you've had a chance to visit the safe consumption site at the Sheldon Chumir Health Centre. Do you believe it should be shut down?

DAN WILLIAMS: Well, that's a question that I want to get input from, so I'm open to all options right now. As you know, the city of Red Deer, just north of Calgary voted in a motion of their council member to remove the drug consumption site that they have and instead replace it with recovery oriented care. So that means things like paramedics that are trained with naloxone kits that mean things like recovery coaches, detox beds, rapid access addiction medicine unit that would be there as well. And that's the kind of thing that's on offer to Calgary as well in this conversation. And I was looking forward to hearing the feedback.

NK: As you know, city council decided not to make any decision one way or another. Mayor Jyoti Gondek said, quote, we don't want to weigh in on something that does not belong to us, unquote. They say it's a provincial decision. It is under your jurisdiction obviously, this is your decision to make, she says. And she said also that they've said their piece on this years ago and that if you feel it can be done better, take action. Don't punted to us is what she's saying. What's your response to the mayor?

DW: I think that's a bit of a myopic view and unfair. It's absolutely appropriate for provincial governments to ask for input from municipalities, especially Calgary, which is our province's largest municipality, especially when it comes to important decisions that affect public safety like a drug consumption site does in downtown Calgary. And public safety is definitely a municipal concern that the city of Calgary is responsible for. So, I'm looking for feedback. I'm not looking to punt anything. There's no doubt that health care is a provincial jurisdiction, that I'm the minister responsible for mental health and addiction. But I think Albertans expect the minister of the provincial government to work with municipalities, and if they vote the status quo as they did, or they say, we want nothing to do with it, that's up to them. And I suppose the Calgarians can have their say on what they think of that. For my part, I think it's good for me to be engaging with my municipal partners.

NK: Councillor Courtney Walcott, who represents the riding where this facility sits. Responded to a statement you made after City Council's vote saying, quote, He can deflect all he wants, but this is Williams decision and the end results there in his portfolio and on his hands, unquote. What do you say to that? You know, they're suggesting you're trying to offload a politically controversial decision to the city when it sits and belongs to the province.

DW: Yeah. Again, I think that the city councillors are missing the point. The forest from the trees. It is good and appropriate for me to ask for their position. The truth is I think that there are alternatives to the only policy that's been on offer for Canadians for the last 25 years when it comes to addiction. Instead of exclusively looking at the harm reduction model that articulates itself in drug consumption sites and in unsafe supply into our communities, which is government funded heroin. Instead there is an alternative to get people health care that brings them out of addiction and into recovery.

NK: You mentioned the examples in Red Deer. You're proposing other alternatives. So why not just implement those alternatives and shut down the site if that's what you think would be better?

DW: Well, I think that I wanted to start by having a conversation with the municipality. If they're saying that they have no say in this and no interest and no skin in the game whatsoever, I suppose that's up to them to say I'm going to be looking at options going forward. As of right now, the drug consumption site is there, and my plan is to evaluate going forward as we have to constantly do with all the services. I want to hear from them. They do have an important interest. I'm not telling them they're the only actors, I'm not tell them that they are final voice, but I am saying that their voice matters. I think it's pretty reasonable and fair for a provincial government to ask that of municipalities.

NK: There was a local poll about the site in particular, and 52 per cent of Calgarians polled by Maru public opinion said they want it shut down. 48 per cent, though, said keep it open. Shows you how divisive this issue is. Certainly, you're familiar with that. There are many business owners and Calgarians concerned about the site, but others who say that if you think that this is going to change the problems or make it better, what business owners are complaining about, it's actually going to make things much worse. I wonder, Minister, what your messages to people on either side of this issue who just want a clear path forward and a decision to be made.

DW: I think all citizens in the city of Calgary and across Alberta are starting to see an alternative of the Alberta recovery model. I think 15 years ago we didn't know what else we could do when it came to addiction, and so we trusted what the academics were saying and the activists, and they said to invest more heavily in exclusively one policy. And it's demonstrable when you walk down the streets of Toronto where you are, or Red Deer, the city I'm in or in Calgary, that the addiction crisis is public and it's getting worse and it's affecting our family members and our community so much more than before. And Alberta saying we need to do something different. And instead of simply facilitating addiction indefinitely, Alberta is proposing health care that tries to bring people into recovery. Health care that heals individuals from the disease of addiction, because there's only two options when it comes to the outcome of an addiction. Especially when you talk about those that have found themselves on the street, it either ends given enough time and pain and misery and death that ends in treatment recovery and a second lease on life to be a brother or a mother again, there is another way. It's hopeful and it's compassionate.

NK: Minister, before we let you go, we do want to ask about what is set to happen this weekend. Premier Danielle Smith, as you know, is facing a leadership review. You're a member of her cabinet. Are you confident she has the support of the UCP membership?

DW: I am. I'm confident and I'm excited to see this wonderful example of, from my understanding, the largest single elected partisan event in Canada.

NK: This party membership has let leaders loose before, have cut them loose. What makes you so confident that this time it will be different and that her job is safe?

DW: You never know for sure. Of course, I want to be responsive to the membership and to those who elected me. But what I've heard anecdotally, I come from northwest Alberta. They think that she's done a very good job in the year and a half since the election. So, I'm optimistic that they're going to vote that way. And that's what I'm hearing.

NK: Minister Williams, thank you for your time.

DW: Okay. Appreciate the time, Nil. Thank you so much.

CH: Dan Williams is Alberta's Minister for Mental Health and Addiction. We reached him in Red Deer.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

B.C. Super Lab Bust

CH: It looks like something out of Breaking Bad, a featureless, industrial looking building in the middle of nowhere. Inside a half ton of fentanyl, meth and MDA, hundreds of guns, piles of cash and all the equipment and ingredients needed to manufacture the drugs. That's what the RCMP found when they raided the facility near Falkland, B.C. Police say it is the largest, most sophisticated drug lab ever seen in Canada. Wade Deisman is a criminologist and associate dean at the University of the Fraser Valley.

SOUNDCLIP

WADE DEISMAN: It's undoubtedly a big win and a significant takedown. The scale and scope of this operation appears to be quite huge indeed. There's about 10 buildings, upwards of 10 buildings involved. The two main buildings appear to have been pretty scaled up with machinery and equipment. It looks like they had quite a few different production operations going on there. So, I think it's a very big win in that sense. It's also a big win from the operational standpoint of inter-agency cooperation. It looks like the RCMP was the coordinating body here. And I take that signal from the fact that the Federal Prosecution Service is handling the charges in this case. But it looks like there was a lot of cooperation with local detachments. And also, it looks like there was cooperation with municipalities in the lower mainland.

GLORIA MACARENKO: And how does a facility like this even come to exist? You know, in terms of the people behind it, sourcing the drugs and the chemicals and the firearms?

WADE DEISMAN: Well, I think that's such a good question, Gloria. And I think that's one of the reasons why the police have made this grand claim about it being a kind of super lab, because there has to be a great deal of premeditation that goes into creating these facilities, just procuring the precursors, white gasoline, iodine crystals, Drano, Epsom salt, propane, all of these things often have to be stolen because they're known to be precursors. So, the premeditation, the planning that goes into the acquisition of all. It suggests that there is a lot more intentionality going on here and that's why it has to be organized crime gang that's operating at the international level. The thing is, when they set up these big labs there, they can be detected more easily because they're so big, they're producing more product and there is an aroma or a wafting of a really kind of acidic kind of smell. And also, geothermal sensing can pick these things up. So, from the air using planes, they can pick up... The other thing is that sometimes there's a large draw of electricity. So, all of these kind of different pieces of intelligence feed into the kind of, the central kind of command centre where they're trying to figure out where the production has moved to. And that's often, we're playing a game of whack a mole, often in these cases where they'll get one facility down and two more spring up.

CH: University of the Fraser Valley criminologist Wade Deisman speaking to Gloria Macarenko on The Early Edition.

[Music: Violin instrumental]

Election Betting Guy

Guest: Tom Gruca

CH: Seems like next week's U.S. presidential election is going to be a real white knuckle nail biter. There's a lot on the line, and not just for the future direction of the world's largest economy. The results will mean big bucks on the betting markets for those who've made the right prediction. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been wagered on the outcome of the presidential race. Professor Tom Gruca of the University of Iowa knows more about that than most people. He's the director of Iowa Electronic Markets, the longest running election betting market in the country. We reached him in Iowa City.

NK: Professor, what is IEM suggesting at this point will be the likely outcome of this election?

TOM GRUCA: So as of, we look at the prices every, every midnight because we're open continuously. So, we basically have a, for the popular vote, we have a tie in our vote share market, however, are winner take all market suggests that Kamala Harris will ultimately win the, will win the popular vote.

NK: How does what you're seeing right now compare to other elections your market's been active throughout?

TG: This is really on the vote share side, which is our longest running markets. This is closer than any election we've looked at. And we've been running these since 1988.

NK: What was the idea behind IEM 30 years ago?

TG: There are some economists and a political scientist, and they were talking about the surprise of Jesse Jackson in the Michigan primary, and he wasn't even in the polls at all. And he, I think he placed second or third and they said there's got to be something better than polling. And they sat down and they thought about it and they said, well, what do we really want? And they want people to take information, all kinds of information, polls and understanding turnout and things of that nature and put all of this information together in one single place and give a summary of that information. And if you think about it, financial markets do that for companies, the value of companies. So, they said, well, why don't we do that instead of having them talk about companies, let's have them talk about candidates. IEM is run completely as a non-profit we're actually even non-revenue all the other competitors of ours basically are run to have as much trading as possible so that the companies running them can make as much money as possible. So that's the big difference between us and all the others that are out there.

NK: And do you see a danger in that?

TG: Well, the main danger I see is that if you have traders with unlimited amounts of money that they can trade, that they can move the prices in the market away from what is actually going to happen. And we're limited to five hundred dollars per trader. And one of our other markets, one called Predict It. They also have a limit. And the reason this is important is if you have a lot of money, you can move the prices around for a long time and it may take up until the election itself for the prices to move where they ought to be. But if you have a limit, the other traders will basically move the prices back to where they should be. But if you have more money than they do, you can keep the prices being mistaken for a very long time.

NK: And do you think that has the, what ultimately would be the impact of something like that, do you think it changes the way people think about who is going to win, but also actually changing who wins?

TG: I don't think no, it can't change who wins because I don't think voters are silly enough to look at a bunch of people speculating on the election and decide who they're going to vote for based on that. They're not going to say, wow, my person's ahead I'm just going to sit at home because everyone else has got a covered or my person's behind there's no point in me voting. Voters aren't that, you know, shallow. People are really passionate about who they're going to vote for this time. So, I don't think whatever that prediction markets are saying, I don't think they're going to have any effect on people going out and voting or not.

NK: The explosion in these other markets and the big money, really huge amounts we're talking about, much different than IEM's intention, it sounds like decades ago when those folks started it. What do you make of that, that explosion in this market?

TG: Well, I think there's an opportunity for people to jump into this space because very relatively recently, we've deregulated sports betting in the United States. So, there are a lot of people who like to bet on virtually anything. And this is the biggest event in a lot of people's lives. And so, you have a built in audience and [clears throat] excuse me, all of these other markets are, you know, online, they're on your cell phone, they're very easy to trade and so forth. And there's a built in audience who, you know, let's face it, people often think they're smarter than they really are. You have to be very overconfident to go and trade against people with your own money. But there's no shortage of overconfidence. And so, people are willing to, you know, put their money where their mouth is. The question is whether the prices that you're seeing are actually going to be indicative of what happens on election day. And the difference between us and some of these other folks is we've been doing this for a long time. We have a track record of being accurate. And these other folks literally just showed up a couple of months ago. So, who really knows how accurate their forecasts are going to be?

NK: What has tracking, you know, what's happening on your market through this election taught you about the electorate there?

TG: Well, our traders are not necessarily representative of the voting public, and they really shouldn't be because they don't have to be. But what they have to be is attuned to what is going on with the electorate. And we've seen pretty much, and we're focussed on, again, the popular vote that we have not really seen any, you know, wavering of the support that the Democratic candidate, whether it was Biden before or Kamala Harris, now that the Democratic candidate will win the popular vote. And generally, not always, but so long as you win the popular vote by a, you know, a healthy margin, you generally win the electoral vote as well.

NK: Professor, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

TG: Thank you so much.

CH: Professor Tom Gruca of the University of Iowa is the director of the Iowa Electronic Markets. We reached him in Iowa City.

[Music: Electronic instrumental]

Springsteen Ghostbusters

CH: Every year as Halloween approaches, we all find ourselves daydreaming about the same thing. What it would sound like if Bruce Springsteen sang Ghostbusters the theme from Ghostbusters. We all imagine it differently, of course. And as we all know, the way we imagine Bruce Springsteen singing Ghostbusters says more about us than it does about The Boss or the Ghostbusters. But me, I've always figured it would be something like this.

[Music: Atlantic City by The Band]

CH: Only, you know, Ghostbusters. But now we need not imagine any longer because last night on Halloween, Bruce Springsteen played Montréal, and this is how he opened the show.

[Music: Ghostbusters theme live by Bruce Springsteen]

CH: From a fan shared video, that was Bruce Springsteen performing his rendition of Ray Parker Jr's Ghostbusters, the theme from Ghostbusters last night in Montréal.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Part 3: Final Convocation, Giant Rat Snifflers, Sound Of The Day: Same Note Record, FOA: Phantom Of The Opera, Encore: Bluey Dad

Final Convocation

[Music: Organ instrumental being played by John Tuttle]

CH: John Tuttle, filling University of Toronto's Convocation Hall, once again with the stirring music of the organ, something he's done many, many times over the decades. But this afternoon he did it for the last time as the university's official organist. After nearly half a century, he is retiring from the position. Over the years, Mr. Tuttle was also a professor of organ and a choral conductor, and he directed music at the university's Trinity College. The CBC's Ramraajh Sharvendiran spoke with John Tuttle before his final graduation ceremony today.

SOUNDCLIP

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: Okay so, walk me through what's happening this afternoon of your final performance. You talked about what you'll be playing, but what's going to happen at this convocation? How does it go?

JOHN TUTTLE: I will play my 3 or 4 pieces beforehand and then play a march when they announced that convocation is beginning. And then I have to be quiet for an hour and a half or so while the speeches are done and degrees are granted. And then at the end, I'll play 'Oh Canada' and then a big rousing piece to get them out. And then I will be done.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: And then what's next for you? Are you are you leaving the organ behind or are you continuing that relationship going forward?

JOHN TUTTLE: You know, this music has become a part of me and it's so, it's centres your mind. So, I have a practice instrument at home. It's a, it's actually a computer with keyboards and it runs a Windows program called [inaudible], you load it up with sample sounds from organs all over the world. So, I have a big French romantic organ and I have two English cathedral organs and a more German like baroque instrument. And I can choose one of these instruments and practice away either using the speakers or using a set of headphones, which I prefer. And this music, I guess you were talking about. Why? Why teach it? I've got letters from people over the years, especially at Heart House and Trinity, from students who participated in that program. And they often say how that experience centred their time at the university and it gave them a kind of reset every week to touch with that that wonderful repertoire and to perform it.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: It's going to be hard to say goodbye.

JOHN TUTTLE: Sure, it is. You know, this really is, in my estimation, my last formal public performance. I will still help out at St. Thomas's when I can be emeritus there, but I'm not looking for places to go out and play. When you get to my age, which is nearly 79, things start to go wrong when you play because your mind doesn't stay as focussed as it used to. And there are physical limitations. So, I think it's time for somebody else to pick up the task here at the university. And I know they'll find somebody really good.

CH: Organist John Tuttle speaking with Ramraajh Sharvendiran on Here and Now in Toronto.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

Giant Rat Snifflers

Guest: Walter Magesa

CH: Rats are not considered cool. They're pests and they're disease carriers and their tails are gross, and their faces are also gross. In pop culture, of course, a rat is typically a snitch. But now rats could improve their reputations by living up to them. According to a new study published in the journal Frontiers in Conservation science, giant pouched rats can be trained to sniff out illegally trafficked wildlife goods like rhino horns or ivory tusks. And when I say giant, I mean they weigh about 1.5kg, which is over three pounds, which is unpleasantly big for rats. But the researchers say they could make a pleasantly big difference in the fight against smuggling. Walter Magesa is a co-author of the study and an assistant fellow with the Belgium based non-profit that trained the rats in question. We reached him in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania.

NK: I think a lot of our listeners, Walter, may not be familiar with this particular type of rat. Can you describe what they look like? Because when people hear giant, they're getting some thoughts in their mind.

WALTER MAGESA: So, these rats are native to Tanzania and they are giant, in fact big in size. They grow up to almost one metre. That's including the tail, they grow to about 0.5 to 1 metre.

NK: Walter, you spend a lot of time with these pouched rats. You even let them perch on your shoulder. I know some people love rats. All different kinds of rats. But for you, what are these rats like, how would you describe how they behave?

WM: First of all, they're so cute. They're nice to handle. They are well trained and they have ability to detect various smells that they've been trained on.

NK: So, you're saying the selling points are that they're cute, they have a great sense of smell? Okay. They're tackling a pretty big issue. How would you describe the concerns around smuggling and trafficking related to wildlife in Tanzania.

WM: The illegal wildlife trade is a global challenge and wildlife trafficking it's even associated with threats to species. And also, mostly the large scale of illegal activity also taking place through the shipping containers. And some of these wildlife are sometimes being shipped mostly to the Far East countries for other purposes, it could be for medicinal purposes or other decorative issues.

NK: Even if people you know, when you say the word cute to describe these rats, I suspect some people are making faces as they're listening at home. But when you, even you know, I don't love rats, but this picture of them wearing these vests with a little harness or a leash, what are those for? They're pretty cute.

WM: Yeah. So, during the training process for the rats to communicate with the trainers, we trained them to wear their vest, and this vest is connected to a micro switch with a beeper, which is positioned on their back or on the back of their [inaudible]. And then it also connected to a small stainless steel ball which is attached yet underneath the tip of the rats. So, if they rat sniffs and get the scent of the wild target, they will pull that ball and triggered the micro switch that will activate the beeper on that vest. So that's a way of communication between the rats and the trainer.

NK: And what did you find, how effective were they? Are they good at this job?

WM: Yeah, it's good. Once they wear the vest, they understand that they had now in position, and they behave as they are ready to work.

NK: The costume is a big part of it. They know that, they're, they have a big job to do. How often do they get it wrong?

WM: Sometimes it may be that because the rats have this tendency of grooming to clean the whiskers on their nose, so they need to clean it, especially when they have the mixture of scent or different odors that are coming in their nose.

NK: So, if they get a chance to groom that, it increases their efficacy.

WM: Yeah, that's their natural behaviour.

NK: You know, anyone who's been through an airport, I mean, you've certainly seen, we've seen dogs do this kind of work elsewhere as well. Why switch to rats? What's the advantage there?

WM: We know that currently we have technologies that are being conducted to detect any of these illegally trafficked dwellers for [inaudible] include the x rays and even dogs. Having that is yet to complement the existing technology that are available. But the advantage that the rats are small, they have a very effective sense of smell. And because of that size they are able to navigate through small spaces compared to dogs, but also these rats light enough to be picked up, especially when they're training them to detect the presence of any wildlife the product in a high elevated area or stacked container. And also, these rats are cheap. They want to house and also they are friendly and they are open to be handled and trained by anybody who can hold them. So, it's not like dogs that are specific to trainer, these rats can be handled and trained by anybody.

NK: Do they get treats when they do well?

WM: Yes, They get treats if they do well.

NK: What kind of treats?

WM: So, we have a mixed kind of food that we have rodent pellet products. It is a mixed with the banana and avocado and they love that.

NK: You really love these rats, Walter though?

WM: Yeah, I really love them because. Because they are doing a good job to help the wildlife [inaudible]. But they also get their normal foods in their home cage, which include the fresh foods like watermelon, carrots and so forth.

NK: What a life. Walter, thank you for this.

WM: Thank you so much.

CH: Walter Magesa is an assistant fellow with the APOPO Foundation. That's a Belgian NGO that has been training rats and dogs to detect landmines and more for years. We reached him in Dar Es Salaam.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Sound Of The Day: Same Note Record

CH: Thurzó Zoltán is looking to repeat. The Romanian pianist is already a three time Guinness record holder. He's got the record for the longest keyboard concert ever recorded by an individual. He's got the record for the highest grand piano concert ever recorded. He did that at Everest base camp before out recording himself with another recording at India's still higher Umling La pass. Now, though, Mr. Zoltán is going after what would be a fourth record, which would itself be a record for a recording artist. Last week he recorded himself repeating the same piano note more times in 30 seconds than anyone else has ever recorded. Now, maybe repetition isn't your thing, and maybe you're a bit annoyed with my repetition of the words record and recording and repeat and repetition in the last 30 seconds or so. Then Thurzó Zoltán's, recording of the highest piano note repeated 500 times in 30 seconds will be a real repetitive treat.

SOUNDCLIP

Pianist Thurzó Zoltán playing the same piano note 500 times.

CH: That was the pianist Thurzó Zoltán playing the same piano note 500 times in 30 seconds in Romania last week. And now to ensure you really hear his technique, here it is at one fifth speed. [Pianist Thurzó Zoltán playing the same piano note 500 times slower] Just kidding. We're not doing the whole thing. Thurzó Zoltán has sent his recording to the record keepers at Guinness for verification, whether he gets his fourth Guinness or not. That was our Sound of the Day.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

FOA: Phantom Of The Opera

CH: It's been less than two years since the curtain closed on Broadway's longest running show, The Phantom of the Opera. But when one curtain closes, a bunch more open, apparently. Starting in 2025, a reconfigured and slightly slimmed down version of the musical is set to start a multi-year North American tour. For 35 years, musicians and actors performed that musical thousands and thousands of times in New York City. Its longevity meant that musicians who played in the show's pit orchestra had had steady work in some cases since the late '80s. Jan Mullen is one of those original musicians. She played violin in the show since it began its run, and in March 2023, Nil asked her if she ever imagined she would be doing it for 35 years.

SOUNDCLIP

JAN MULLEN: Absolutely not. [NK chuckles] That never crossed my mind at all. It was unheard of. I mean, nothing had ever lasted that long -- not on Broadway.

NK: I wonder, you know, do you still get a kick of the audience reaction as they take in the performances after all these years?

JM: Yes. Audience reactions can vary. Sometimes it's very subdued. Other times, it's just very reactive to everything that goes on. There's no way of, from our standpoint of being down in the pit, of knowing why that is. Because we can see a tiny bit of the stage, but we're basically playing the same music over and over and over again. But there definitely are huge, huge differences in audiences.

NK: The show itself means a lot to a lot of people around the world, and certainly in New York City. I wonder what it means to you.

JM: A lot. I never would have dreamed I would be able to support myself for 35 years in this field. It's just one of those things that I think everybody in that pit would say they are so, so grateful for this job. And just, and that's just from an employment standpoint. The second thing is very close is to be able to play a show that is difficult to play. You can't not practice and play this show. You have to go home, and you have to keep up your, your level of confidence. You have to be able to sit in an orchestra and follow a conductor and know that things might change in an instant because it's live and somebody on stage needs something extra. You have to be on your, like, A-game when you play this show every single night. And I think that makes it so much easier than, than, something that's not so complicated.

CH: That was violinist Jan Mullen speaking with Nil last March about the end of the 35 year run of The Phantom of the Opera on Broadway. Earlier today, we reached out to Jan and she told us she will not be performing in the new tour of the musical, but she can't wait to see it.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

Encore: Bluey Dad

CH: It took months of diligent investigation, but Australian police have finally gotten to the bottom of a crime that had them Bluey in the face. I'm talking about the theft of more than six hundred thousand Australian dollars’ worth of Bluey dollar bucks. Limited edition coins commemorating the hit children's series Bluey about a family of dogs, two of which are blue. One of which is Bluey. After a raid on a property in a Sydney suburb police say they've recovered more than 40 thousand of the dollar bucks which were stolen from the back of a truck in July. Two people were already charged with stealing and dealing the Bluey coins, with a third person arrested this week, which, like an episode of Bluey, teaches us an important life lesson. Don't steal thousands of dollars’ worth of legal tender and sell it online for way more than it's worth. And if the case of the missing coins sounds like it could be the plot of an episode of Bluey, it might actually be in the future. Because the show's writers are known for incorporating real life experiences into the show. Stuart Heritage is a columnist with The Guardian and he was a guest on As It Happens, in April when a Bluey episode entitled 'Surprise' was all about him and his experiences as a father.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: Stuart, I have to know. What were your children doing that made you think I am actually in an episode of Bluey before you were actually in an episode of Bluey?

STUART HERITAGE: Oh, so I was at, I was at a playground. I'd taken my children camping for a weekend by myself -- which, in retrospect -- was incredibly foolish. And so, by the time we got to the playground, I was exhausted. And they were kind of cranky with each other. And they both decided they wanted to, play a game, but they wanted to play different games. One wanted to play "Floor is Lava". One wanted to play some sort of alien defence, very complicated alien defence game on a, on a climbing frame. And they were just arguing over who would go first. And it got to the point I was just like, look, if you, if it will help, I will play the game with both of you at the same time.

NK: At the same. "Floor is Lava", "Alien Defence" same time.

SH: Yes.

NK: Okay. Bold choice, Stuart.

SH: Awful, bad decision. [NK: chuckles] Terrible decision. I was, I went to defend the climbing frame from some aliens. And the young kid -- younger kid -- told me I was, you know, standing in lava. So, I jumped up on a seesaw, and then I was letting the aliens in. And it just went backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards. And I'd been watching lots of Bluey at the time. This was three years ago. And it just struck me that it was -- basically -- this was an episode of Bluey that I was in.

NK: [chuckling] And for those who, who haven't become huge fans of the show -- as many people have -- many people certainly with, with children, I think. But maybe we shouldn't assume that it's only people who have kids. What is it for you about Bluey that makes the show so great, so enjoyable and powerful?

SH: Oh, it's such a, it's such a beautiful show. It's, I mean, it is legitimately my favourite thing on television. A friend of mine recommended it to me -- another parent -- and it sounded so boring. It was, it's a, it's a cartoon about some Australian dogs. And I just, I kind of I stuck it on for the kids. And then one episode passed. I didn't really pay attention. Another one did. And then there was one where the dad was just trying to entertain his children in real-time while they were waiting for some takeout to arrive. And I was just like, oh gosh, it's like whoever's writing this can see into my life. [NK: chuckles] And it's all done in a, in a, in a way that appeals to children. But it's so ambitious. It's incredible.

NK: So that is what has reeled so many people in. But not everyone has their very specific day [chuckling] playing the both of those games in a Bluey episode. So how did you go from having, you know, I think -- objectively -- a nightmare experience on that day to being in an episode?

SH: [laughing] Well, so I'm a journalist for The Guardian in the U.K. And I love Bluey so much that I kind of, I tracked down Joe Brumm -- the creator -- and interviewed him. And I feel like we got on very well. So, after I had the kind of the thought that this could be a Bluey episode, I realized that I kind of had also had access to, to the man who created Bluey. So, so I got in touch with him.

NK: Where did the locking yourself into the bathroom come into the picture?

SH: Well, right. Yeah. So [laughing] I, well, I sent an email -- the initial email -- and he replied and said, oh, this is, this is good. I'm going to try and pursue it. Do you have any more details? And I was just in a, just chasing the children around for the whole, the whole day. And then, when we got back to the campsite, they were brushing their teeth, and I thought, okay, I'm going to nip into the toilet and [laughing] lock myself in and give a bit more explanation. And again, Joe Brumm replied very quickly and very reassuringly said, do you have everything you need to survive in that toilet? Because I told him I was in the toilet -- obviously -- which was very -- dad-to-dad -- that, that felt very, that felt very --

NK: Yeah.

SH: Very kind.

NK: Let's play a little bit, for our listeners, of how all of that ended up sounding in this very special surprise episode of Bluey.

SOUNDCLIP

BINGO: Dad!

BANDIT: Hey kid!

BINGO AND BLUEY: Will you play with me?

BANDIT: I was just watching the race, mate. The Aussie fellas doing well.

BINGO AND BLUEY: Awweee!

BANDIT: Well, I can dip in and out.

BINGO AND BLUEY: Hooray!

BANDIT: Okay. What do you want to play?

[Bluey and Bingo talk over each other]

BANDIT: Woah, woah! Kids, one at a time!

[they continue to talk over each other]

[space gun sounds]

BINGO AND BLUEY: Got it?

BANDIT: [strained] Got it.

END OF SOUNDCLIP

NK: [laughing] Did they get it right, Stuart?

SH: They got, I mean, that bit exactly is almost kind of word for word what I, what I suggested. I said both of them explained the rules at the same time. You can't understand what either of them are saying. Yeah, that's, I, oh, it's my favourite show. And that is the thing I love most about it is that was a real moment with my real kids.

NK: Yeah.

SH: And -- I mean -- Bluey is going to outlast me, certainly. [NK: chuckles] Maybe my children, but that's a dark thought, so let's not dwell on it. But yeah. And now, it's this, this, this little real thing that I had with my kids is, is he's kind of crystallized it for me. It's, it's so lovely.

NK: You talked about what it has meant to you and the connection many other parents feel as well to, to, you know -- as my producer Lisa put it -- for her, it means, you know, it was like feeling seen as a parent, very deeply. Chilli -- the mother in this show -- has a, has, has trouble putting it into words, you know, what it is like to have children. But that, that series -- the series -- is kind of an answer to that question. What do you think we learn about ourselves -- or parents learn about themselves -- by watching this, this Australian dog family?

SH: Well, the thing that connected with me was the, the dad. I mean, I'm talking about cartoon dog -- which sounds bizarre -- [NK: laughs] but he is sort of the best dad in the world. He's, he's present, he listens, he's patient.

NK: Bandit.

SH: And -- at the same time -- he... Bandit, yeah. But at the same time, he, he, he kind of, he struggles. So -- I mean -- the clip you just, played, he ended up getting pelted with tennis balls and he sort of whimpers. Yeah, he ends part of the episode whimpering in a, in a huddle while he's being attacked by his children. So, it's, it's -- yeah -- I, there's a kind of there's a cult of Bandit where dads are kind of watching him and almost taking parenting lessons from him.

CH: That was Stuart Heritage speaking to Nil in April.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

CH: And now a follow up on a story we brought you last year when Newfoundland and Labrador punk pioneers Da Slyme reissued a recording of their hits. The release was driven by demand for copies of their 1980 recording Da Slyme, which was not just self-titled. It was also self-pressed, self-printed and self-made to the point where they were taking album covers from the likes of Burton Cummings and Nana Mouskouri and re appropriating them for their punk rock purposes. Those one offs are now treasured rarities sought after by collectors. And now the music journalist Nardwuar the Human Serviette says he has become a proud owner of a copy, thanks to a moment of generosity. Following an interview with the UK producer Fred Again.

SOUNDCLIP

NARDWUAR THE HUMAN SERVIETTE: The interview was totally over; camera was packed up. I was walking out of Neptune Records in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and Fred said, oh I have a gift for you. And they presented me this box and I was like, what the... And I opened it up and it was Da Slyme. I could not believe it. And the original copy with liner notes and it's one of the holy grails of Canadian punk rock. And I couldn't believe that I was, like, touching this. It was like, totally amazing. I could not believe it.

JONNY HODDER: Did he say anything to you about where and how he got his hands on the album?

NARDWUAR THE HUMAN SERVIETTE: Not at all. It was a complete mystery how he got a hold of it. And the thing is, like, for me, it's like a mythical creature, Da Slyme LP. Like I first heard of The Legend of Da Slyme when The Von Zippers from Calgary covered one of Da Slyme's songs. I think it's called 'Truckstop Nun'. So, Von Zippers covered it. Probably like the '90s or the 2000s on a compilation called Oh Canada put up by Lance Rock Records. So, they did a cover of, I was like this is the cover of... They're from Newfoundland. You covered, it was a Truckstop, the Truckstop Nun, was their song, by Da Slyme where they say "Truckstop nun, hot cross buns". And it kind of makes me think, like, actually, it made me think of, like, you and hot turkey sandwiches.

JONNY HODDER: Why do you think that album in particular is like become this sort of like mythical beast and this collector's item among old school punk lovers?

NARDWUAR THE HUMAN SERVIETTE: Well, part of the reason it's so DIY, it's like a punk band from Newfoundland getting a record done. And the actual records, the records, they didn't have money for the actual record, so they went to the local thrift shop and got records and spray painted Da Slyme on the records and inserted the records into the records they got from a thrift shop. So, each record is different. That in itself is like totally me is like totally a private press type situation. And all those, like, private press records are really, really valuable. And the thing is this, Da Slyme record is amazing. It's so touchy. I knew nothing about Da Slyme until the Von Zippers. You know, I discovered them on the Von Zippers. That's what's so great about learning stuff is like, there's always something new to learn. And I could not believe that Fred Again had produced this item of all the items in the world. This is the one he picks.

CH: Music journalist Nardwuar the Human Serviette in conversation with CBC Newfoundland's Jonny Hodder. And if you're wondering about that tune that. Nardwuar was talking about, which you are here from their 1980 self-titled debut is Da Slyme with Truckstop Nun.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[Music: Theme]

The AIH Transcript For November 01, 2024

Social Sharing