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The AIH Transcript for October 31, 2024

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NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Nowhere to turn. As Sudan's civil war rages on. There's been a surge in sexual violence. And a human rights lawyer documenting those abuses tells us the women who have been victimized deserve far more support.

CH: Countermeasures. U.S. election officials are taking unprecedented steps to protect themselves from threats as they prepare for next week's vote. And in Arizona's Maricopa County, they're taking those threats especially seriously.

NK: Breaking the spell. According to the official story, Alice Molland was the last person in England to be executed for witchcraft. But a British historian is making the case that she wasn't executed at all.

CH: The fests of both worlds. A 10 year old from Toronto takes us through her packed agenda for today as she celebrates Halloween and Diwali. In a hybrid holiday she calls Diwalloween.

NK: You win astronomical sum, you lose astronomical sum. A Russian court fines Google an amount the company will have a lot of trouble paying because the penalty is more money than there is on earth.

CH: And the wrist is history. Wellington, New Zealand bids farewell to Quasi, the giant creepy sculpture of a hand with a face that stood on the roof there for years. A city councillor explains how they were able to palm it off. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that's just relieved they're no longer under his thumb.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Sudan Fact-Finding Mission, Election Worker Security, N.Z. Hand Sculpture, Russia Google Fine

Sudan Fact-Finding Mission

Guest: Mona Rishmawi

CH: Nearly a third of Sudan's population has been displaced. That is the latest estimate from the UN's International Organization for Migration. Since the Civil War broke out last year, 14 million people have fled their homes. 25 million are at risk of acute hunger. And now a new report from the UN's fact finding mission in Sudan is sounding the alarm on sexual violence in the country, which it says is being perpetrated on a staggering scale. Mona Rishmawi is one of the expert members of the fact finding mission. We reached her in Geneva and a warning, this interview contains some disturbing details.

NK: Mona, as we've covered this conflict on our program, we've certainly talked about the issue of sexual violence, the reports that have come out of Sudan. But what does your report now say about just how widespread this problem has become?

MONA RISHMAWI: I think what we can say is that we have documented horrific patterns of sexual violence in Sudan in the current conflict. I worked before in Sudan. I worked 20 years ago, and I documented a lot of this in Darfur. But what we are seeing today is basically the spread of sexual violence across Sudan. So, the spread of it and the violent nature of it, the brutality of it. The victims are not, are women and girls as young as eight and as old as 75. So, it's really a horrific story, I have to say.

NK: In addition to those victims, we should also mention that that boys and men have been targeted, according to your research.

MR: Yes. So, we have few cases. You know, the stigma is higher, as you know. So, the reporting is very difficult on boys and girls. But we have documented cases of attacks and sexual violence on men and boys. And we think, you know, in the next phase of our mandate, this is an area that needs further investigation just to see the scale of it.

NK: What kinds of things are the survivors? You've been able to speak with Mona, you and your colleagues, what have they told you about, you know, even just trying to get help after surviving these horrific attacks?

MR: So, as we know, the health system in Sudan in the current conflict has basically collapsed. So, there are few emergency rooms and few doctors and fewer clinics, I would say. And some international NGOs like MSF and so on, that continue to function in the country. But over, you know, the overwhelming majority of health care systems in Sudan have collapsed. So basically, what happens is that unfortunately, when there are complications, bleeding or infections and this kind of stuff, women and girls go to these clinics and this is where you can actually see the scale of it. So, in our case, we have been able to document around 400 cases of this kind of cases. But really, we think the scale is much higher.

NK: The survivors that you did meet with, you know, are you meeting them in one of these clinic settings? How are you finding them?

MR: Yes. We meet a lot of these people in refugee camps in places outside Sudan. So basically we, I personally interviewed a number of incredibly courageous young women. I mean, there are two that I keep picturing them. I am a lawyer. One is a lawyer, actually, and the other one worked in a ministry before and they are in their 30s and they were just active, lovely, you know, human beings who want to help their communities and society. And as a result of their activism, they were punished by rape. One of them is actually, was found, was raped in a detention centre, and then she was raped again as she was fleeing the country. The other one was raped inside her house when they entered the house to basically look for men, they saw her, they identified her, they knew who she was, and they raped her, gang rape in that case. So, it's really terrible. So, we see them. If you want a few weeks or sometimes months after the event. But you can tell that what they went through is incredibly traumatic because you start talking about the situation, the country, the family, what happened to the community and all this stuff. And then it comes to this moment of sexual violence and then the person changes.

NK: Where are they now? Are they getting any help?

MR: They get some help because there are some NGOs that operate and some UN system, you know, some people in the UN system. But this help is not adequate. So, and this was striking for us like, the need is so much. So, one of our recommendations is actually we need to have a dedicated entity that works for the support of victims, in particular victims of sexual violence.

NK: It's important to document this, which is why you do this work and have been for so long. But given everything that is happening inside Sudan, is it realistic to think that those things can and actually will be put in place? And quickly.

MR: I think that there is, although there isn't sufficient attention on the situation of Sudan internationally, by the international community, there is some attention. So, we put a recommendation, the main recommendations that we actually put forward in addition to that are about how do you protect people and how do you address their needs. So, what we asked for is a protection force, an independent protection force, because neither side of the, most of the sexual violence atrocities, most of them are by the rapid response forces. But also, we have allegations against the armed forces. So, you can't trust both sides. You need an independent force.

NK: There are calls right now and you've heard for the United Nations to actually deploy peacekeepers to Sudan. Is that what you think would be the best here?

MR: I think, you know, that's one option. I mean, unfortunately, to deploy peacekeepers, you would need the support of the Security Council, the Security Council states, particularly the 'Permanent five' have to step up. You can't just allow a situation like this with, as I say, rampant sexual violence. It's really unimaginable. So, something needs to happen.

NK: Why do you think it hasn't happened so far?

MR: You have to have the right conditions to send this kind of protection force. And what we are talking about is basically you have to create these conditions. And the only way to create these conditions is to put pressure on the warring parties, push for a cease fire, expand the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, which is now as a jurisdiction only on Darfur. Show that you mean it? Show that there is something, there is resolve to take action in the case of in the case of Sudan.

NK: Mona, thank you. Please take care.

MR: Thanks.

CH: Mona Rishmawi is one of the expert members of the UN's fact finding mission for Sudan. We reached her in Geneva.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

Election Worker Security

Guest: Tammy Patrick

CH: They're sights you might expect near a military base or a high level political summit. Drones in the sky, razor wire, snipers on roofs, police in body armour. But they're just some of the measures American election officers are taking as they brace for security issues on Election Day. And at Ground Zero for election conspiracy theorists is Arizona's Maricopa County, where preparations are reaching new levels. That's because it's home to over 60 per cent of the people voting in a crucial swing state that helped tilt the 2020 election in favour of Joe Biden. Tammy Patrick is a former election official in Maricopa County and the chief executive officer for programs at the National Association of Election Officials. We reached her in Chaptico, Maryland.

NK: Tammy, I know you've been visiting election offices right across the United States over the last few weeks. It's been busy for you, I bet. As you step back and look at that big picture of what you've seen and collected. What is your takeaway from those visits?

TAMMY PATRICK: Our election professionals in the United States are prepared. They're as prepared as they've ever been for any election in their careers. And so, we think we're in really good shape as we move into the final days of voting. And I think that if we can continue the civility and the general atmosphere of active participation, that's peaceful. We'll be in really good shape next week.

NK: An official with Maricopa County recorder's office told Wired magazine the county is a, quote, "fortress". Now, their words because of the increased security measures put in place. You worked there once, Maricopa County, that is, does that assessment, that description of a fortress ring true to you?

TP: It does. Exactly. That was exactly what my sentiment was. I walked up to a building that used to have unimpeded access to the public, to park in the parking lot, walk in the front door, be greeted by the public servants that work for the county. And that's no longer the case. Now the building is surrounded by chain link fencing that's razor wire topped. It has additional fencing inside that you need keycard access in order to get into. And that's before you even get to the front door. You know, the people working in the lobby are behind bullet-proof glass. It really does have that feeling of a fortress. And for that, I am deeply saddened for both my former colleagues that still work there, that every day they walk to work or go into work. That's what they are reminded of, is that there's a portion of their community that doesn't trust the system. And that's, that's really unfortunate.

NK: You were working, as you said, as an election official in Maricopa County during the 2012 election. How would you compare, you know, not just to security, which you hinted at now, but also the kind of potential for violence or threatening atmosphere. You know, then and now.

TP: The big difference in the last decade or so is that in 2012, when we had a portion of the community that was concerned, and at that time they were concerned because we had an abnormally large number of provisional ballots, We had people that were protesting, they were carrying signs. They were peaceful, mostly. We did have a couple of instances where a throng of people stormed into the lobby. And we did have somebody throw a rock through one of the windows, but they weren't carrying guns. They didn't have semiautomatic weapons strapped on to their shoulders. They weren't wearing tactical gear. And so that's a big difference. There's an intimidation factor there. There's a terrorism factor there. The game plan now for some is to try and sow chaos to try and instill fear in the process. But what they're not counting on is the dedication of our public servants, the tenacity of the American voter to make sure their voices are heard at the ballot box in a peaceful manner. And so, I think that in this moment, we're going to be leaning into that history of peaceful transition, of power, of peaceful protest, and of making sure our voices are heard at the ballot box.

NK: And those election officials, those workers who want to do this duty and are trained, as you've said, are facing the brunt of this in many places. What kinds of stories have you heard from people about the kinds of threats they're facing.

TP: In the last couple of years it really has been heartbreaking to talk to my colleagues all across the country. And these are people who are in rural areas. These are Republicans. These are Democrats. These are urban election officials. They're in battleground states. They're in states that overwhelmingly vote, you know, red, blue or purple. It's happening all across the country. And they're telling me stories about things like getting phone calls from people, talking about following their children to school, saying, "I know that your daughter Suzy, you know, takes Elm Street and then turns on Oak because that's how she needs to get to Mrs. Johnson's second grade class". They say things like, "we know your son's bedroom is the second to the last window on the second floor back by the oak tree". They say things like, "we see that your mom made lasagna tonight and she's wearing that yellow dress she wears to church". I mean, these are tactics to instill fear and terrorize these public servants. And they've been happening for the last few years and unfortunately have driven some from the profession because that's a lot to ask for somebody that works in a county office or a municipal office where you don't exactly take that job for fame and fortune. You're quite often underpaid, under-resourced, and to also be under attack. It can be a bit too much. So, we do know that we've lost a lot of people from the profession. The good news is that for those who remain, they have a lot of experience. Deputies have stepped into, you know, the main role. People from small jurisdictions have moved to larger jurisdictions. So, I'm fully confident that the election cycle this time around is going to be well executed and will be done in the utmost professional manner.

NK: And then there are the voters. And voter turnout is always so important. It's always a big question leading up to an election like this. What's your feeling about whether you think this kind of security, which from what you're saying is, sounds like it is very much needed? Are you worried it might deter people from coming out to vote?

TP: So, I think in this moment, it's been really important that we have passed the message, much like we did in 2020, that your voting experience will be safe. And we're making sure that voters have options. So, if they're concerned about voting on Election Day, they might want to go and vote early in person. Or if they are concerned about voting in person, they might want to, you know, vote by mail. And we do know that tens of millions of Americans have already voted. They're taking early action this cycle. And I think that what we will end up seeing is probably some of the highest turnout we've ever seen in U.S. history. And that's a very good sign.

NK: Tammy, I'm very glad we could speak. Thank you for this.

TP: Thank you.

CH: Tammy Patrick is a former election official in Maricopa County, Arizona, and the chief executive officer for programs at the National Association of Election Officials. She's in Chaptico, Maryland.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

N.Z. Hand Sculpture

Guest: Ben McNulty

CH: Some people in Wellington, New Zealand are relieved. Others are feeling wistful. They have to say goodbye to a presence that has loomed over them from the roof of a gallery for the past five years, observing the city with an off putting a stern stare. But one thing they can all agree on he always had the upper hand. Sorry, I misread that. He always was the upper hand. I'm talking about Quasi, a 16 foot tall sculpture of a hand standing on its index and middle fingers with a very judgmental face embedded in it. The statue by artist Ronnie Van Hout has been a fixture in the city since 2019, when it moved to Wellington's art gallery from its previous home in Christchurch. Now, after five long years in that city, Quasi is moving on. We reached City Councillor Ben McNulty in Wellington.

NK: Counsellor McNulty. Are you going to miss Quasi?

BEN MCNULTY: I absolutely am, I think. Art, you know, interesting art should be polarizing. And there's never been a pace quite as polarizing in our city as Quasi. So, I certainly consider myself one of his defenders, and I think his presence will be missed in our city.

NK: Polarizing is one thing. Terrifying, is another. How many people there agree with you?

BM: Well, I think after five years, maybe the terror factor has gone down and now it's more of just, you know, I think he's ugly or not. But I do remember when he came in that terrifying was an apt description from some, monster, other things like that. I think, you know, when he arrived in Wellington, I think he was paned. There was maybe a small group of people that loved him and everyone else really hated him. And I like to think there's been a little bit of a softening, a groundswell over time of support.

NK: Get used to it I guess or can block it out mentally, I suppose.

BM: Well, I'm wondering what happens on Saturday when he gets helicoptered out, if we'll have a sort of gathering of fans at the, in the Civic Square to say goodbye. I think he's going to actually be quite missed.

NK: Tears, perhaps?

BM: Not quite tears. I don't think anyone's quite at that level. But, you know, it's been an interesting fixture, a core part of our CBD.

NK: And, you know, I've seen the photographs for better or worse. Our listeners just heard Chris, you know, give a pretty good description of what this looks like. But how would you describe what you've had in your community for all of these years?

BM: You know, I think, you know, when you look at him and then you actually understand the background, so he's, it's the artist's own hand. And then the artist's own face within the hand. And there's a statement in that about how he creates art. When you so, I guess when you have that contextual level of what the arts about it sort of humanizes him a little bit more. But you know to people that may be walking through or some tourists coming from our city who look out from the waterfront and see him, you know, he's all sorts of different things.

NK: The artist, Ronnie Van Hout told Associated Press, quote, Everything comes to an end eventually. I am sure it will be missed. But even Lovecraftian nightmares have to return to where they came from. And now you only have an absence to reflect on, unquote. You said, you mentioned a little bit about the artistic origins. You know, what does it symbolize to you and your community at this point?

BM: Yeah. So, he sits on top of our city gallery, which is the Central City main art gallery in the city, and they're a contemporary art gallery, so you're not going to go see great classics there. They are about, their remit to provoke and pieces that are a bit different, and he fits the remit of that institution to a tee, you know, that is what his job has been to do. And so, we'll have a, he's, it's a very apt description from Ronnie that there is actually going to be an absence there of what comes and what fills that void in the city. In Wellington we have an incredible institution called the Wellington Sculpture Trust. And it deployed, I think about 13 or 14 sculptures across the city and all sorts of wild and weird sculptures. And I encourage your listeners just to Google some of the things like the Water Tale or the [inaudible], because they don't quite on the level of perhaps polarization of Quasi, but they're fantastic pieces of art. And then that context is one of just a number of these public art institutions around our city. But I think he punches above his weight and him not being there will make a difference.

NK: Great work is, artwork is provocative as well. Do you think ultimately, beyond the fun that we've been having and that you guys have had over the last five years, do you think it has provoked thoughtful conversations about art in communities?

BM: I think it's a... thoughtful, maybe a little bit of a stretch. But, you know, most people here talking on the face value, but he's provoked conversations, absolutely. If you look at the social media pages of the council or the city gallery or other Wellington interest pages, and there's discussion to this day, you know, and he leaves as polarizing as he arrived. There are people celebrating his removal and hoping that he's heading up to the Hag for charges. [chuckles] And, you know, so not much else that, not much catches the public and their day to day and gets them to have such a strong feeling. So, he has really been quite a conversational point for the city.

NK: Going to Australia next. Why is Quasi moving now?

BM: Yeah, so Ronnie, he's Christchurch born, a New Zealand city but he lives in Australia now. The actual installation of him, originally I believe was three years and the city gallery extended it further. But it was always intended as a temporary sculpture. And there's some work that need to be done on that building. It's an old historic building. Some renovations and the like. So, they need him to come off the roof. Where he goes in Australia, I'm not sure. I have a personal hope that he might end up in Federation Square and Melbourne because Federation Square is a similar area. It's a civic square, the focal point of Melbourne, but Melbourne's a city the size of New Zealand. So, I just think he can take his discourse and flavour on to a whole new city and a whole new group of people to really love or hate him.

NK: And your advice to those folks.

BM: You know. Embrace him. He's such an interesting point of conversation and if you hate him, hate him with a passion. And if you love him, love him with a passion.

NK: That's great advice, counsellor. Thank you.

BM: Thank you.

CH: Ben McNulty is a city councillor in Wellington, New Zealand. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Russia Google Fine

CH: The courtroom fell silent. The judge put down his regular gavel, reached under the bench and with great effort, pulled out his jumbo gavel. You have defied the laws of this proud nation, he said. And for your arrogant refusal to pay some money, you will now pay all the money. You are hereby fined the sum of... 2.5 decillion dollars. [Echo cartoon voice and music]. Some of you might feel that the music and the echo were overdoing it. Well, we have reviewed your complaint and both were great, actually. But if they were too much and I'm not saying they were, it would be apt because this judgement is too much. In 2022, pro-Kremlin channels sued Google for blocking their YouTube channels and they won. The penalty was one hundred thousand rubles a day, that's about 14 hundred dollars Canadian. But the penalty doubled every single week. And since the invasion of Ukraine Google has blocked more ultranationalist Russian YouTube channels, 17 of which are suing. And on Monday, a judge in Russia announced that altogether, Google now owes a grand total of 2.5 decillion dollars U.S. In fines. That's a two and a five, followed by 32 zeros. It is a harsh penalty. It is also the equivalent of sentencing someone to be a walrus now or eat 400 beach towels. Because it's not just that Google doesn't have the money, it's that all the money on Earth comes nowhere near adding up to 2.5 decillion dollars. It's an impossible sum that no one could ever pay and that everyone put together could never pay. I guess it was supposed to be scary, but the truth is, it just puts the silly in the decillion.

[Music: Country instrumental]

Part 2: Witch Not Executed and Diwalloween Kid

Witch Not Executed

Guest: Mark Stoyle

CH: Over a period of about two centuries, it's believed that hundreds of people in England were executed for witchcraft, including Alice Molland. There's not much information about Ms. Molland out there, but there is a plaque in Exeter commemorating her and noting her death by hanging in 1685. She has long been regarded as the last person in England to have been executed for the crime of witchcraft. But for years there have been doubts about that story. And now a UK history professor is making the case that she may not have been executed at all. And that perhaps she died in 1693, eight years after she was supposedly put to death. Mark Stoyle teaches early modern history at the University of Southampton and is the author of a forthcoming article about Alice Molland. We reached him in Exeter, England.

NK: Professor, there is this plaque in Exeter, as you well know. What information beyond that points to Alice Molland having been executed in 1685 for the crime of witchcraft?

MARK STOYLE: Well, there's just a single document that refers to the fact that she was tried at the Exeter in 1685 and condemned to death for the crime of witchcraft.

NK: So just a single document and this plaque. You grew up in Exeter. I mean, you don't have to have grown up there to be interested in these stories and these mysteries. But what piqued your interest?

MS: Well, I think it's the fact that some three women who were tried and definitely executed three years before in 1682 and Alice Molland herself have always been held to be the last four people to be executed in England for witchcraft. And what's really interested me is the fact that over the last 30 years since that plaque was put up, we've come to learn a great deal about the three women who were executed in 1682. But nothing is known about the woman who was condemned to death in 1685. Apart from the fact of her condemnation.

NK: And she was accused of bewitching three women, what would that have meant? What are they getting out there with that?

MS: Well, almost certainly that the three women she was accused of having attacked through occult means would have fallen sick in some way. They would have felt poorly. They might have believed that these sort of physical symptoms that they were suffering had been caused by the evil attentions of Alice.

NK: And we've certainly covered many stories on our show about these kinds of cases, the push to pardon people accused of witchcraft centuries later. This was a way to target women at the time in particular.

MS: Yeah. I mean, certainly if we're looking at England and the U.S., the huge majority of people who are accused, condemned and actually executed as witches are women. In an early modern English context, you're looking at about 90 per cent of the accused are women and only 10 per cent are men. So, there's a really heavily gendered side to all of this.

NK: So, you know that there's this mystery around this fourth woman can't find out a lot of information. So, you dig and others dig and you look at others research as well. You and at least one other historian have made this connection that Alice Molland may actually have been called Avis Molland. How did you get to that conclusion?

MS: Okay well, exactly. I mean, the first thing is the mystery that obviously there weren't many people being executed as witchcraft, witchcraft by this time. So, when it did happen, there was a great deal of excitement and there's lots and lots of evidence about the execution of the Bideford witches. The were actually several pamphlets that were published telling the story about these executions. But in the case of Alice Molland, there is nothing. And that seemed very curious. And it made several historians wonder if she'd actually escaped the gallows. And then there is a reference in one of the Exeter Court records just three months after Alice Molland's condemnation. There is this reference to a certain Avis Molland in Exeter. And because there are many Molland's in Exeter at this time, those two names are so similar. It occurred to me and one other historian. Could there have been a mix up? Could Alice Molland really have been Avis Molland? And does the fact that we can trace Avis's history through the Exeter records and actually for some years beyond 1685 suggests that she may have been a woman who was accused, but that she was eventually reprieved and not executed after all.

NK: Could there not have been an Alice and an Avis in the same area at the time?

MS: The certainly could. And I mean, in my article, I make this point that we don't know for sure. It is possible there is still an unknown Alice Molland lurking out there. And that Avis is not the woman who was accused in 1685. But if so, it's very peculiar. No trace of this other Alice has ever appeared. It may do yet, but it's very mysterious that no evidence has appeared hitherto. So, it remains a mystery. But this is a possible solution to that mystery.

NK: When I initially saw the two names, I thought, well, could this be a case of, you know, she escaped and then changed her name and different identity, but that's not what you're suggesting, because there's a long history of Avis there.

MS: Yeah, exactly. We know that we've got evidence of Avis being married. There's evidence of her having several children who died, There's evidence of her husband dying and her living as a widow. What's also very interesting about Avis, though, as well is that she is a middle aged woman who's lost her husband, who's already been in trouble with the law. She's also lost many of her children. This is like the classic stereotype of the witch in early modern England. These were the kinds of people who was so often accused of witchcraft at this time. So, she kind of fits the profile, if you like, as well.

NK: And how ultimately do you believe at this point that she did die?

MS: Well, we know in fact, I was able to, I scoured the parish registers of Exeter looking for the death of either Alice or Avis and eventually found Avis's death recorded in a parish register of a little church on the suburbs of Exeter in 1693. So, we know for certain the Avis Molland was not strung up on the gallows. She died, we may guess, in her bed and was buried in one of the local parish church yards. So, it's clear that Avis lived for at least eight years after that sentence in 1685 was passed.

NK: It's clear that it's important to you to not just solve this mystery, but really making sure the story of this one person is correct and corrected on the record. Why is it so important to you?

MS: Well, I think you know, these stories of witchcraft and in particular, people who were tried, imprisoned and sometimes executed for that crime, which we now know to have been an imagined crime. You know, it is very tragic. It's one of the great injustices of history. And I think telling these people's stories is really important. Whether or not they were executed or simply dragged through the legal process and had their lives by hell.

NK: Professor, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you for this.

MS: It's been a pleasure, Nil. Thank you so much.

NK: Likewise. Take care.

MS: And you. Bye.

NK: Bye bye.

CH: Mark Stoyle is a professor of early modern history at the University of Southampton. His article about Alice, or if you're convinced, Avis Molland will be published in next month's edition of the UK Historical Association's magazine "The Historian".

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Diwalloween Kid

CH: 10 year old Rhea Dhingra's schedule has been jam packed today. Not only has she dressed up for Halloween, she's also been celebrating Diwali. And this morning, before she headed off to school, she even found a few spare moments to talk to CBC Toronto.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID COMMON: Hello, Rhea. Are you on the line with me?

RHEA DHINGRA: Yeah. Hi.

DC: So how are you?

RD: Good. How are you?

DC: I am well. Happy Halloween.

RD: Happy Halloween.

DC: And Happy Diwali.

RD: Happy Diwali too. I like to call it Diwalloween.

DC: Diwalloween, I like that very much. That's a great name. So, tell me what Rhea, does, what does your day look like? You're on your way to school now. Are you dressed up in a costume?

RD: I'm going to take a shower, so I'm going to dress up in my Halloween costume, which is a scientist.

DC: Yes.

RD: And then I'm going to go to school. And then after having fun at school, I really come back and change into my Diwali outfit.

DC: Yes.

RD: And I'm going to take some pictures, decorate my house and make a picture using sand colour which we call, a rangoli.

DC: A rangoli, yes. And are you looking forward to having some Diwali treat some special food tonight?

RD: Yeah. And then night I'm going to go trick or treating. In my Halloween costume. And then in my Diwali outfit we're going to do a prayer in our temple of the God we believe in and have yummy food and sweets.

DC: Very nice. And will there be any firecrackers? Some fireworks tonight.

RD: Yeah. In the night my dad got some firecrackers from the store, so I'm going to do them near our house.

DC: Yes. Okay. Well, that's fantastic, because Diwali, it's so big with fireworks. And so, it's very, it's lots of fun to see them. You have a very big day today. Are you ready for it?

RD: Yeah.

DC: Yeah, it's very exciting. Well look, I know you have to go off to school. Thank you for talking to us this morning. Have a great day and a great Diwali.

RD: Happy Diwalloween.

DC: Happy Diwalloween. Perfect.

RD: Thank you.

DC: Bye bye.

CH: 10 year old Rhea Dhingra speaking with the CBC's David Common about her plans for Diwalloween.

[Music: Guitar/bass instrumental]

Part 3: Hallmark Ageism, Sask. Robbery Injury, Mini Toadlet Discovery, Humming Buoy, Cree Smitty's Server, John Little Obit.

Hallmark Ageism

CH: A Hallmark holiday movie really feels more like a documentary than fiction. Each provides an illuminating cinema verité snapshot of the life of a high powered executive who goes home for the holidays, where she reconnects with her high school flame or a roguish stranger she hates but then loves because his dedication to his small town dog walking business gives her a new perspective on life, love and laughter. Although, admittedly, some of them are not entirely realistic and maybe are more like the TV equivalent of comfort food, a sugary snack best consumed curled up on the couch. But behind the scenes, the movies are big business, particularly in Winnipeg, where many of them are filmed. And now Hallmark Media's executive vice president of programming, Lisa Hamilton Daly, is embroiled in a lawsuit alleging she repeatedly made ageist comments about leading female actors and crew. Two Winnipeg actors in their 60s. Cindy Myskiw and Kelley Hirst weighed in on the suit.

SOUNDCLIP

CINDY MYSKIW: We're all looking for love. Doesn't matter what age we are.

EMILY BRASS: That's very true. And like, do you find that it's hard to get roles when you're an older actress?

CINDY MYSKIW: Yes. Yes. Most of the age groups are looking between anywhere from 30, maybe 50, and that's, that's pressing it.

EMILY BRASS: Where does that put you as a working actor?

CINDY MYSKIW: I'm all, over that by ten years, so.

EMILY BRASS: How do you handle that then?

CINDY MYSKIW: I try to submit. Sometimes I get an audition, sometimes I don't. But most of the time not.

EMILY BRASS: Yeah. And so. Kelley, have you been hearing anyone from the film industry reacting to this lawsuit?

KELLEY HIRST: No, you know what, I was pretty outraged. I mean, for heaven's sakes. Like, who among us is not getting older and I don't see them ageing out the men. So, what the heck?

EMILY BRASS: And so how about for the viewers like Cindy, what impact do you think it has when older women aren't present on the screen?

CINDY MYSKIW: I think it shows a bad taste. It's hard to tell the age of younger people. And I'm finding that you always see that 30 and under and then 50 and older. When you're looking at people in general, like it's hard to find that age group in between.

EMILY BRASS: Well and does that kind of perpetuate certain stereotypes when you have it like either really young and or really old and there's no one in between.

CINDY MYSKIW: 100 per cent even, like even for background, which we both do a lot of they're looking at a certain demographic, they're looking at 18 to maybe 30, and that's background. It's like, what about the older people? Like, where are the older people in this town? Do they not exist? Are there no grandparents? [laughter].

EMILY BRASS: Right. Like, what kind of town is that? What do you think about that, Kelley? Like, does it affect the viewers not to see women over 40 or...

KELLEY HIRST: I think it absolutely does. Especially in something like Hallmark. I mean, you look at the demographic that you're marketing to. My sister swears by Hallmark. She tapes every single one. So does my cousin. And they are older than me. So, this is the demographic you're marketing to. And I think it's important that they see women who look like them.

CH: Actors Cindy Myskiw and Kelley Hirst spoke to Emily Brass on CBC Winnipeg's, Up To Speed. None of the allegations against Hallmark have been proven in court. In a statement, Hallmark denied the allegations, saying, quote, Hallmark continues to consistently cast and maintain positive, productive relationships with talented actors representing a broad spectrum of diversity, including actors who span many age groups and crossed generations, unquote.

[Music: Drums instrumental]

Sask. Robbery Injury

CH: One early morning last week, 66 year old Orlan Peterson was working on a job at a rural site in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, when two vehicles sped up and screeched to a halt. People got out and one of them charged up to Mr. Peterson, ordering him to get on the ground before shooting him in the shoulder and arm. And then they all took off. After waiting a while, Mr. Peterson walked a kilometre to a busy highway, bleeding and in pain until a passerby pulled over and called 911. The incident triggered a province wide RCMP dangerous persons alert. Orlan Peterson is recovering in hospital. His son Josh told the CBC about getting the scary phone call about his father.

SOUNDCLIP

JOSH PETERSON: He talks about seeing the dust in the air and like the headlights. And all of a sudden this guy came running up to shove the shotgun into his face and said, Get down on the ground and where's all your stuff? And he said, It's all in the truck. Take it. Take the truck. It's yours, you know. And then the guy hit him in the back of the head with the stock of the shotgun. And then Dad said he could feel the cold barrel at the base of his head like neck. And he just started praying. He thought his life was over. He said, like, I never thought I'd see you or my grandkids or like any of my family again. And the guy said to them, Get up, we're going into the trailer. And so, he basically followed dad into the trailer. And once they got into the job trailer, he said to him, sorry, bro, I got to shoot you. And Dad said he just buried his head and started praying. And he kind of bladed his left side towards the gun and bam. And then the guy took off from the building, and dad said he never lost consciousness, but initially thought he got hurt in the guts because his entire body was on fire. And he was able, he was fearful they were going to come back and finish him off. Once he knew he was he was still alive. So, he found some tie wire and wired the door to the trailer shut so they couldn't come back in. And there's windows in the trailer. So, they had left the truck behind. And he was fearful that somebody was in there waiting to see if he was going to come out. So, he spent about an hour in the trailer and based upon the daylight and stuff, and because his watch was on his left hand, he couldn't access it to see it. He was just trying to hold up his hand. But he estimates at about 8:00 he was like, okay, I got to go. So, he just started walking. And like I said, he estimates he walked about a half a mile to get to the White Star. And then thankfully, a vehicle pulled over to call 911. He's a man of faith and I truly believe that something was there to help him because it's incredible that he was able to survive that.

CH: That was Josh Peterson talking to The Morning Edition in Regina about his father who was robbed at gunpoint and shot in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, last week.

[Music: Lo-fi instrumental]

Mini Toadlet Discovery

Guest: Felipe Toledo

CH: The world is full of curious creatures. Some are big and majestic, strutting around like they own the place, but others are tiny content to live peacefully in the various nooks and crannies of the forest. And most of the tiny creatures are insects. Which is why the discovery of a minuscule new frog is so remarkable. When I say minuscule, I mean even minuscule-er than you're imagining. And the researchers involved found the extremely minuscule specimen, not by looking, but by listening. Felipe Toledo is a biology professor at the State University of Campinas in Campinas, Brazil. That's where we reached him.

NK: Professor, you've had the chance to hold one of these creatures in your hand. How would you describe it's size?

FELIPE TOLEDO: Well, for me, it's smaller than a bean. It's like an ant. We have some ants that are even larger than these tiny frogs here in Brazil.

NK: So just under seven millimetres, to let our listeners know.

FT: Yes. Yes.

NK: And what did it feel like in your hand?

FT: It's like, well, it doesn't feels like a frog because it's so small and jumps like a flea. That's why we call them 'flea toads'.

NK: Flea toads. And why can you interchange toad and frog here? Because there's usually distinctions.

FT: Well, actually, we call them toadlets. I think it's the best name for them. [NK: Toadlets]. But frogs is generally a universal word for these animals.

NK: Okay. Glad we could clear that up. This was discovered by a colleague of yours, and it came down to a recording of its sound. That's what triggered this new discovery. I want to play that for you and me and for our listeners. I think we're gonna have to lean in to really hear this. [Slight chirping sound] There it is. Yeah, easy to miss if we weren't paying very close attention. But what made that sound, you know, what stood out about it to the team?

FT: Yeah. There is this guy, Adelso, he works there in the forest every day. And he was a studying one of the species, but suddenly he noticed it's actually two species because the sounds are different. And normally each frog and each amphibian has a different sound from distinguishing the species. And that's the beginning of the research. And then he contact me and we discuss it and turns out it's actually a new species.

NK: So, capturing that sound is, of such a tiny, tiny creature is certainly one thing. But then capturing the creature itself is another. How did you all do it?

FT: Well, to capture them is difficult because these frogs are sitting under the leaves on the forest floor and they're super tiny. So, it's difficult. And when we get close to them, they stop calling, which makes it even harder. We've, experienced researchers they may take like a couple hours to find one of these tiny toadlets on the forest floor. But we've [inaudible] for it. People can find them and collect some.

NK: Patience is part of the skill set then for the work you do?

FT: Yes. It's a need for sure.

NK: So, you capture the sound, you capture some of the toadlets and then you have to do further testing. So, what was involved in that part of the process?

FT: Well, the second step is to do genetic analysis to distinguish the species, the populations. And we did that and once again confirmed that it was a new species. Also, we examined the external morphology, but that was not good for us because it didn't distinguish the two species, the two sister pieces, they're cryptic. They're just alike.

NK: The morphology was cryptic. What was the key to confirming for you that this is an entirely new species?

FT: Well, for me, the sounds is generally enough because it's so different from one species to the other. But with the genetics, it was again a confirmation. But we also look into their bones with high resolution CT scans and also some anatomical studies.

NK: When you get that confirmation and you're looking at this little thing in your hands, what does that like for you?

FT: Well, I think it was super because it's a great discovery. The smallest, at that time it was, it's going to be the smallest vertebrate on earth. Yeah. But during our research, other colleagues found another species of the same genus that's even smaller a little bit, but it's even smaller.

NK: Well, sorry about that. Still exciting, though. I mean, you have to be so careful. I imagine one false move and it's done.

FT: Yeah. I mean.

NK: Did you lose any in the process by accident?

FT: Well, maybe we have stepped on them. But we even don't know, they are all over the forest floor.

NK: What do you know about why it might be this small? Is there an advantage there?

FT: There must be some advantages. For example, using different micro habitats that larger frogs can't eat these smaller prey items that that the others are not eating, escaping from predators that are looking for more conspicuous frog species. So those could be some advantages. All of these are hypotheses need to be tested.

NK: So, you still have some more questions. What else do you want to learn about this toadlet?

FT: Well, now we are really interested in the physiology. Is there any modification in their hearts, because they're so small, their lungs, their systems. How can such a small liver work properly, you know. So, these are some questions that we can make with such a small being.

NK: Professor, I thank you for your time.

FT: Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, it's an honour.

CH: Felipe Toledo is a biology professor at the State University of Campinas in Campinas, Brazil. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Humming Buoy

CH: Something eerie has been lurking in the waves along Newfoundland's Southern shore. It arrived a bit before Halloween and the sound it makes has been haunting residents ever since. But it's not some kind of pirate ghost yearning for the doubloons lost in Davy Jones' locker. Southern Shore resident Brandon Carmel talked to the CBC about the aquatic racket.

SOUNDCLIP

BRANDON CARMEL: We're looking at what seems like a Coast Guard, a government buoy almost, and it seems like it got untangled or cut loose from its anchor and kind of floated on down into the harbour here.

TODD O'BRIEN: Right. It's a fair size.

BC: It's pretty big.

TO: And it's not too far off shores.

No, it's I'd say it's at least a good 100 to 200 feet out from the house here.

TO: When did you first see it?

BC: I'd say about probably drifting it about a month ago. I first saw it myself just there on the corner of the rocks. It's almost like it was stuck there, but it's almost cut loose and just kind of floating back and forth along the houses here. And there's like houses the whole way across this line here, right? So, everyone's getting bothered by this thing going around.

TO: I mean, it's not an eyesore, but it is an ear sore.

BC: It really is. It makes this like a really low tune whistle. And some people may think it was like high pitched. What it's like really low, deep hum. And you won't hear it now. But when the wind picks up, when the waves start getting higher, it really starts to go. And there are days when, you know, we get a bit of rain or we get a lot of wind or something. You can feel it in your gut, like how loud it can get and you can't drown it out. Unless you want to deafen yourself and turn the TV all the way up, but you'll still hear it.

TO: Really? [BC: Yeah]. So, you can actually feel it in your body? Almost.

BC: You can. You can feel it. It can get that loud.

TO: Have you heard anybody complaining, you know, families about, you know, being woken up at night?

BC: Oh, so many. My wife works at the shop here and she hears people complaining all the time, even from the other side of the community, saying they're being woken up in the middle of the night. And like, we got family here. There's families here with little kids, you know, just starting kindergarten, little babies, and they're being woke up middle of night because of this. They can't sleep.

TO: Brandon, what have you done to try and, you know, get this thing removed?

BC: Well, some people in the community have called the Coast Guard and, well, to disappointing results. They were told that a once a boat's available to come and get it, but no one's been given any timelines and we're not giving any different answers. It seems like nothing's being done for us.

CH: That was Brandon Carmel talking to Todd O'Brien of CBC, Newfoundland and Labrador's The Broadcast. And here is the sound that has been haunting the Southern Shore. [Sounds like a foghorn].

Cree Smitty's Server

CH: To Adam Rieger serving is about more than just taking orders and delivering food. It's about connection. So, when he noticed that he wasn't connecting with all his customers, he thought he should do something to change that. Mr. Rieger works at a Smitty's restaurant [clears throat] pardon me, in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. And to bridge the gap with his clientele, he tried learning a new language, Cree.

SOUNDCLIP

ADAM RIEGER: I was having a hard time sometimes breaking the ice with my Indigenous customers. Languages are like a bridge, you know, languages, open doors, and they really communicate respect to people. And so due to that, I thought, well, why not learn a few words in Cree, you know, and, and it was amazing. Like, so when I first, I would ask people, hey, like, hey, can you teach me a word in Cree? Like, what do you know? And, and immediately people would light up and they would, they would start talking and they'd be excited, you know. And so, once I saw that initial reaction I thought, ok, let's take this all the way, you know, and just keep learning and see how far I can go.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: How did you do that?

AR: I just asked my table what language they spoke. And so, I'd say like [sentence in Cree]. And then I would just ask like, okay, so maybe I'm giving them their food and I'd be like, Well, hey, how do I say, like, how is your food? You know? And I just literally every day I'd ask new customers, like there's teach me one more word, one more word, one more word. And just moving forward that way.

SL: And obviously really related to what you're doing as well, which is the best way to learn, right?

AR: Yeah, exactly. And that's the words I do know. I know really well because I literally use them dozens of times every day. And so that, that's the best way to do it, I think.

SL: And how have you, how have those reactions as you've been learning more vocabulary and continue speaking with people, what have you seen from your customers?

AR: Yeah, it's been really beautiful, honestly. So just the other day I was serving a table and it's really hard to gauge people's reactions at first because some are like, they're so surprised it's almost like they don't know how to react. Like it's pretty unusual, I would say. And so, like one guy, he just started laughing. Like he just couldn't believe it. He was like, what is going on? You know.

SL: What did you say to him? [laughter]

AR: I didn't know what to say. I just laughed with him. You know, that's kind of like the best. [laughing]

SL: How has this learning that you've been doing and the interactions that you've been having with your customers affected you and how you feel heading into work every day?

AR: Man, I couldn't speak more highly of how this experience has gone, like when I first started this job. I mean, it was, there was a lot it was high stress. You know, there's a lot of frustrations that I had. And so, I just somedays I felt like you're just like, you don't want to go into work. You know, I get up in the morning, it's like, here comes another day of stress. And but once I started doing this and I started seeing people's reactions, it completely changed my perspective. And it, it's almost like the purpose of my job now became to reach people and to express my love for them. Yeah, it completely changed my perspective of working.

CH: Adam Rieger works at a Smitty's restaurant in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. He was speaking with Stefani Langenegger, host of The Morning Edition in Regina.

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John Little Obit.

Guest: Terry Mosher

CH: You may not recognize his name, but there's a good chance you'd recognize John Little's paintings of Montréal, or at least recognize Montréal in his paintings. Some of them are set in the spring, but his most indelible images depict the city in winter blanketed in snow, presided over by bare trees. His pictures share a remarkable sense of movement, despite often having very few figures in the frame. John Little died on Monday night. He was 96 years old. He came by his love of the city and its architecture honestly, he once worked for his family's architecture firm and he passed his love of art on to his godson. Celebrated political cartoonist Terry Mosher. We reached him in Montréal.

NK: Terry, I'm so sorry for your loss. How are you dealing with the news today?

TERRY MOSHER: It's startling. I mean, I'm 82 years old, and I'm at an age where, still very active, but I'm at an age where many people I know are passing and it sort of goes with the, goes with the territory, if you will. But this is particularly difficult for me because John Little, the painter, was such an enormous influence on my life, how I lived and how I worked and so on. And I knew him for 70 years.

NK: You spend a lot of time in his studio. What kind of memories do you have from that time watching him work, learning from him?

TM: Yes, when I was very young. I met John, actually, briefly. What happened was my parents lived in mon, right in downtown Montréal, heart of Montréal, we had the bottom part of a, sort of a converted coach house had been converted into two apartments. And this artist's fellow and his wife, charming wife, Lorraine, moved in downstairs and they knocked on our door and immediately hit it off. Wonderful people. And my father was a freelance writer, so a lot of creative talk. And so, it just was almost an instant relationship. And for an impressionable 9 or 10 year old boy, I was quite taken with the fact that this was a real life artist downstairs painting pictures.

NK: Were you already, did you already have an inclination, were you already an artistic child and it blossomed further by spending time in the studio, or did that come later?

TM: Well, my parents were very liberal and they encouraged me to do whatever it is I wanted to do. But the same thing had happened to John Little when he was growing up in Montréal. His parents encouraged him to draw or follow his nose, if you will.

NK: So, you had those similarities already. You're in the studio with him as a child. What did you pick up during that time?

TM: Well, the smells were magic. I mean, the turpentine and the linseed oil and that sort of thing. And the radio playing in the background, usually with the baseball game on. There were tons of visual references. As all artists have, you know, like folders with photos of people in different positions and this, that and the other. It was just wonderful. And oddly enough, I have a very similar kind of studio today where, you know, with lots of visual references and so on. I didn't know it at the time or realized it, but I was having a real lesson in how to proceed with becoming, you know, a relatively successful artist.

NK: Creative life. What a beautiful way to grow up. Do you feel that way as you look back on it?

TM: I do. It was a magic time in downtown Montréal in the '50s. We had a terrific hockey team and the forum; the Montréal Forum was just a few blocks from where John and I lived. And so, it was always talk of hockey. And I pick up hockey games right beside the apartment we built, there was a space just enough room for a rink so neighbourhood kids would come over and play and he would sketch us sort of playing hockey and stuff. It was a wonderful time.

NK: And you very much lived, it sounds like, in the kinds of iconic streetscapes and paintings that he is so well known for.

TM: We were alive in John's paintings, and he loved sticking rinks into odd places in his paintings. His paintings, by the way, people who are not familiar with it were Jeff's charming, charming representations of downtown Montréal life. His father had been an architect, and so he had a sense already of how things are constructed and perspective and that sort of thing. But what he did is he added charm to all that with milk trucks going down and ice rinks and all kinds of things. Just a wonderful painter.

NK: He had worked as an architect for a time too right?

TM: Let me say something, that Canada is known for the Group of Seven, and they left town to paint a rural and a Canada. John was different, he went downtown to paint, to find his subject matter and he recorded it so well.

NK: He clearly loved urban settings. Montréal, Québec City as well. A 1964 review by Dorothy Fifer wrote, quote, those bemoaning the seemingly ruthless demolition of hundreds of Montréal's gracious old world homes and other buildings, the disappearance of the name of progress of various little private nooks and parks and the often callous disposal of dignified stone pillars and amusing cornices will gain nostalgic pleasure from John Little's show, for he has dedicated his paintings to the preservation of such items for posterity, unquote.

TM: Exactly. He did that. He bemoaned the fact that Montréal was getting of a very progressive period at that time when they were building metros and theatres and so on. And so, a lot of the downtown area was being scrapped to put up these cement towers and so on.

NK: What do you think his work could or should teach us about the cities we live in?

TM: You know, there's a charm that's missing these days. There's no question about it. Certainly, most of our suburban areas, look suburban Toronto looks almost exactly like suburban Montréal, except there's more French in Montréal, but they look exactly the same. The clothes are the same. There's you know, there's this sameness about today. And the Internet doesn't help. You know, we miss that.

NK: He talked to a lot of things. It sounds like he made you a baseball fan, as I understand it. But what else did he teach you that you're holding close even today?

TM: He was always there. You know, very quickly, he and his charming wife, Lorraine, she organized John and she was the centre of his life. And when I say he was always there; I always knew where he was. I was a rascal as a young man. I hitchhiked all over North America doing sketching and doing this, that and the other. But I always knew Joan was there and I could call him from anywhere, and, you know, he'd give me words of encouragement. I have hundreds of notes from John that he would send me encouraging me to do this and encouraging me to do that. Saying in my drawings that perhaps try a little bit of perspective here and that sort of thing. I mean, I have these things, these treasures, a treasure trove from a man who I admired so much. I treasure those notes almost as much as I do his paintings.

NK: Terry Mosher, once again, I'm sorry for your loss, but very much appreciate your time. Thank you.

TM: Thank you very much.

CH: Terry Mosher is the godson of renowned Canadian artist John Little, who died at the age of 96 on Monday night. We reached him in Montréal.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

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The AIH Transcript For October 31, 2024

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