This former Israeli politician believes peace is still possible
Despite escalating violence, former justice minister says most people are ready for a 2-state solution
Former Israeli justice minister Yossi Beilin tried to negotiate peace between Israelis and Palestinians 30 years ago, and he still believes it's possible today.
Just four days into the war between Israel and Hamas at least 1,830 people have been killed — more than 1,000 in Israel and at least 830 in Gaza and the West Bank, according to authorities on both sides.
Israel says Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza are holding more than 150 soldiers and civilians taken from Israel after Saturday's surprise attack. Hamas has vowed to kill captured Israelis if Israel attacks Palestinian civilians without warning.
Israel, meanwhile, has ordered a "complete siege" of Gaza, where it rained down bombs on Tuesday after warning civilians to flee. Aid groups have criticized the siege, and are calling for a humanitarian corridor for Palestinians.
In the '90s, Beilin helped negotiate the Oslo Accords between Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization, which the United Nations recognizes as the official representative of the Palestinian people. Those agreements were supposed to pave a path toward a two-state solution.
Beilin spoke with As It Happens host Nil Köksal about why that solution never came to fruition, and why he believes it still can. Here is part of their conversation.
I know you spent some time in a bomb shelter today. What was happening around you that you had to do that?
We are already used to it [for] several years. And in the last days, we are in and out ... and we continue to work from there.
So it is not something which is very unique. And we also know that it will end in a few days. But in the meantime, of course, life changes a lot.
You said it will end in a few days. What will end? What will happen?
You have this ongoing situation for years. There is an attack. There is a counterattack. We say that we'll finish the existence and the capacity of the Hamas…. We help the civilians. They help civilians eventually. Nobody is incapacitated. Then we go back home.
This time feels different, though, doesn't it, to you?
I hope that it will not be the usual ritual and that it will be possible to incapacitate Hamas. Because Hamas is not a partner. Hamas is not a counterpart. Hamas is kind of an ISIS, because it doesn't want something very specific that Israel can deliver.
There is a huge difference in the PLO, which wants a Palestinian state on 22 per cent of the land, which I believe they deserve and can get, while the Hamas doesn't want any state ... [or] any agreements with Israel, and is not ready to recognize the Oslo agreement.
Does the Israeli government want that? 000
The current government? No.
I believe … that its days as the government are numbered after what happened here, and the centre-left will come back to power and may suggest a two-state solution.
It sounds like you have some sliver of hope even in the midst of all of this.
I do have [hope].
Hamas is a big, big problem. And if it is not Hamas in power, and if the Palestinian Authority returns today to the Gaza Strip and manages it, and then, in Israel, you have a government which is ready to talk business about the Palestinian state, it may not take a generation, but months.
I don't believe that it is so far from us. Because, by now, we know the solution. And we know that ... the majorities on both sides would like to have peace and are ready to pay the price for it.
People in Gaza we've been speaking to as well, they may want peace, but they're not sure that that solution can really ever come. And there are people in Israel who don't feel that a two-state solution is possible. How do you combat that, especially given what's happened here?
You are right. But I'll tell you a secret. If the two governments are coming with an agreement like we did in Oslo, we'll get huge majorities [of people onboard].
Our problem will not be that there [is] no majority for peace. Whatever agreement the two sides will achieve, our problem will be with the minorities. And this time, we should be much more prepared to tackle these minorities than what happened to us in '93.
Given that the lives of those hostages are on the line, Yossi, what option does the Israeli government have right now other than to try to strike some deal for their release and perhaps even negotiate with Hamas?
I don't have an answer to this question. I hope that the government will have an answer to it. And maybe first the women and then the children [and] old people will be released, or something like this.
I don't believe that this very sad situation with the hostages will change the course of things between the parties. I mean, the decision to incapacitate the Hamas will not be impacted by the fact that there are people who are hostages in the hands of the Hamas.
When you listen to what Israeli government officials are saying right now, and signs that a ground invasion into Gaza could come, the retaliatory attacks — and we know there's civilian loss of life in Gaza as well — is that going to actually bring a resolution? Because those methods haven't necessarily worked before.
In all the previous rounds, the answer to this question was very obvious — no, it will not bring [anything] but ... more feelings of revenge and to continue to perpetuate the cycle of violence and revenge.
I'm not sure that I can give you this answer again today. I think that it is impossible to ignore what happened. What's happened is unbelievable.
Not to react is impossible. To react in a very careful way is the right answer. And, still, innocent people will be killed on both sides.
But after that, the main aim should be the morning after. How and to whom are we going to hand over the Gaza Strip, if it is up to us?
A moment ago, you seemed to recognize some of ... the criticisms that people had with the [Oslo] Accord. You know, it was meant to be temporary …. How is it possible to not repeat the mistakes of the past?
Not to go for another interim agreement, but only to the permanent agreement.
I think that we gave a gift to the extremists on both sides — five years in which they tried their best to torpedo the agreement, and that should not be repeated.
Is this something that keeps you up at night, Yossi, after all these years?
Among other things.
With files from The Associated Press. Interview produced by Chris Harbord. Q&A edited for length and clarity
