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Front Burner Transcript for July 29, 2025

Guest Host: Allie Jaynes

ALLIE JAYNES: Hi, I'm Allie Jaynes, in for Jayme Poisson.

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JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: All we want is fair and justice and... You know, what was the, the, the motto of Superman? Truth, Justice, and the American way.

AJ: So last week, I spoke to this New York radio host and billionaire, John Catsimatidis.

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JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: When I say America, I mean United States and Canada, because we're, we're in the same pot together.

AJ: His assistant had explained that he was chomping at the bit to talk to Front Burner, and they've actually been emailing us for some time. Because Catsimatidis is trying to spread the word about these ostriches in B.C. that he's trying to save. He's even written to Prime Minister Mark Carney about them.

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JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: And I don't understand the Canadian law, because I'm a, I'm a New Yorker, that they want to slaughter or kill all 400 birds if they're not sick.

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: And we had a phone call from, uh, Katie, who owns the farm in British Columbia. I was horrified what's going on. We're worried that they're trying to destroy these ancient creatures that might have antibodies.

AJ: More on those antibodies later.

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AJ: The "Katie" he's talking about is Katie Pasitney. She's a spokesperson for Universal Ostrich Farm, which is co-owned by her family. It's in the West Kootenay region of Southeastern B.C., and they've got about 400 ostriches, some of them more than 30 years old. In early January, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, or CFIA, ordered them to cull the whole flock after two dead birds tested positive for avian flu. This is standard procedure in virtually any case where the virus is found. The farm says a total of 69 ostriches died from flu-like symptoms, most of them young.

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KATIE PASITNEY: I've grown up with these animals my whole life, or 35 years. They've watched me grow up, I've watched them grow up and these ostriches are part of our family.

AJ: I spoke to Pasitney yesterday.

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KATIE PASITNEY: It's taken a very deep emotional toll on my mom and I, and I have a paraplegic father that actually lives at home as well. And to know, you know, that the very organizations that we should be relying on for support are the ones that are going out there and directly kind of attacking, has been hard to handle.

AJ: We'll get more into the battle between the farm and the CFIA later, but broadly, she told me that they feel like they're being treated unfairly.

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KATIE PASITNEY: We are not a commercial poultry facility in tight barns where virus would run rampant really quick. We are flightless animals. We are quarantined geographically in our location all in itself. We are 135 kilometres away from a major city. We have no commercial poultry facilities around us. We've just been begging for the opportunity for Canadian Food Inspection Agency to work with us.

AJ: The farm launched a judicial review of the case. In May, a federal court threw it out, saying that the CFIA had properly followed its procedures. Two weeks ago, the Federal Court of Appeal heard the case in Ottawa, and the farm is still waiting on a decision there. But meanwhile, the story has spread like crazy in right-wing media ecosystems. First in Canada, with groups like the far-right outlet Rebel News.

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DREA HUMPHREY: It is May 20th. Drea Humphrey here with Rebel News, as promised, back at Universal Ostrich Farms in Edgewood, B.C., bringing you a story continuously that defies logic and science when it comes to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's plans to continue...

AJ: And then, in the United States.

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ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR: You know, I think that was a huge mistake to liquidate that ostrich herd. These animals lived to 50 years old.

AJ: Back in April, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the United States Health Secretary and a known spreader of health-related conspiracy theories, was on John Catsimatidis's radio show. Catsimatidis pressed the health secretary, who he describes as a friend, to take action.

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ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR: They're not badly affected by bird flu, and we should not be killing them. We should be studying them to, you know--

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: Well, they're still alive. You're-- Mr. Secretary, they're still alive. I'm trying to talk to the courts up there that, that they should not take the influences they're getting from the pharmaceutical companies. And uh, whatever help your office can do, we welcome it.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR: John, I support you 100%. I'm horrified by the idea that they're going to kill these animals.

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AJ: In May, R.F.K. Jr. posted on X that he had met with officials from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, and he posted a letter that he had sent to the CFIA's president, offering to have American health agencies collaborate with Canada on studying the birds. Mehmet Oz, better known as Dr. Oz, who is currently the administrator for Medicare and Medicaid services under Donald Trump and is also infamous for spreading health misinformation, got on board as well. He has offered to host the ostriches on his Florida farm. Although, given the Canadian government's cull order, it's unclear how that would work. And Universal Ostrich Farm has declined the offer. Prime Minister Mark Carney has not weighed in on the ostriches, but other politicians have. B.C. Premier David Eby has said he's frustrated with the inflexibility of the CFIA. But he also said last week at the first ministers' summit in Muskoka that:

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DAVID EBY: We don't take our public health advice from R.F.K. and from Dr. Oz.

AJ: That same day, Ontario Premier Doug Ford voiced his support for the birds, and for Catsimatidis.

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DOUG FORD: I've talked to John many times about these ostriches. I'm an animal lover, full disclosure, and I want to do everything I can to help them.

AJ: Alberta Premier Danielle Smith also told reporters at the summit that authorities should find a better way than culling the animals.

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DANIELLE SMITH: When avian flu went through that herd, it did kill 20% of them, but it didn't kill 80% of them. So maybe there is something to learn from whether there's an immunity or some kind of vaccine that could be developed as a result of having that flock survive.

AJ: That actually echoes ideas you hear from a lot of the birds' supporters. In addition to the concerns about government overreach, many supporters think that these ostriches and their eggs may hold antibodies that could have medical benefits, possibly even some kind of vaccine alternative. Although it's not exactly clear what that might be or whether there's any hard research to back it up. Here's radio host John Catsimatidis again.

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JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: Canada bought a vaccine for $500 million, and they might lose the money if the ostriches really have antibodies. And I just, I don't know. But--

AJ:So, sir, can I, can I ask you more about that?

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: These animals deserve, these animals deserve a fair chance to live.

AJ: Can I ask you more about that? Like is the idea here that people think that these ostriches or that their eggs might have, like, some kind of--

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: Antibodies.

AJ: --alternative to vaccines?

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: Yes.

AJ: Do you know what for?

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: That's a possibility. Dr. Oz, you would have to talk to Dr. Oz. He's the expert.

AJ: And you're thinking these are antibodies to help with bird flu or to help with other, other viruses?

JOHN CATSIMATIDIS: To help-- They're ancient animals. I think they'll help with all viruses.

AJ: When I asked Katie Pasitney about this yesterday, what she said was actually kind of along the same lines. For the past few years, the farm has been working with a scientist at Kyoto Prefectural University. And Pasitney says they're using antibodies from ostriches to create therapeutic products: nasal sprays, for example, that she says would in essence build up immunity in both poultry and humans to protect them against a variety of viruses.

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KATIE PASITNEY: It's putting the reliance of vaccinations and, say, more medication and more pills for humans and animals, um, it's giving another, uh, a healthy, sustainable, natural approach to that. So if there is another way rather than vaccinations, and we have seen the damage that vaccinations have done, then I don't know why we're not working with the alternative option. We are not anti-vaxers. Um, but we're not, we're not pro-vaxers either. It's just, we have an alternative here and that's what we're fighting for.

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AJ: Pasitney said that she would send me papers backing up the research on this. But as of this recording, she hasn't sent anything over yet. We'll get more into all of these claims in the second half of this episode.

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AJ: At any rate, back at the farm, a whole movement of its own has sprouted up. People have been camped out there for months to save the birds, including some prominent members of the Ottawa Freedom Convoy, like Jim Kerr.

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JIM KERR: I am at the farm. Just came in from the field, feeding all the birds, yep.

AJ: Kerr's been living there for more than three months now. He walked me through his day to day, including what he does with the visitors who show up most days in solidarity.

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JIM KERR: Well, we greet them, we talk to them a little bit about the ostriches. We give them a lay of the land, we show them where the kitchen is. We've got an outdoor kitchen; tell them that they can prepare their own food. And basically it's just fellowship. You know, they're here to show support.

AJ: Kerr says he didn't initially expect that he'd end up living on the farm for months.

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JIM KERR: When I got here, I realized how wrong it was, and then I'm-- now it's like a moral duty to do something about it. I mean, this family is just priceless. They love people, they're kind. You know, they don't want to break the law, they don't want to engage in violence. They're just doing it all right. And, yeah, I fell in love with the family, I fell in love with the cause. And I believe this has a chance to make a huge change.

AJ: By a huge change, he again means something to do with antibodies. Here's how he explained it in a recent video on his Facebook.

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JIM KERR: Folks, the yolks of these eggs have antibodies in them that they overcame H5N1! The birds had it; they got over it. The healthy ones now pass it on to their kids in the form of the yolks!

AJ: But what it comes down to, Kerr told me, is big pharma versus small farms.

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JIM KERR: I'm not a scientist. I don't have the answers as to, you know, how all of these things work, viruses and such. But I do know that a small farm who is trying to produce something of value that could be of scientific and medical value for people, that is an alternative to the big pharma solution, is a beneficial thing.

AJ: So, as this continues to wind its way through the Canadian court system, we wanted to understand. Is there any basis to these claims about ostrich antibodies? And is the Canadian government right to cull these birds, or is this overreach? Marc Fawcett-Atkinson is a reporter with Canada's National Observer, based in Vancouver.

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AJ: Hi Marc, great to have you.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Hello, thanks for having me.

AJ: So for starters, I'm wondering if you could just, I mean, in the intro, we talked a little bit about the culling story, but not in much detail. So I'm wondering if you can just explain briefly, firstly, from the perspective of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the CFIA, what they say happened and why they ordered this cull.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: So according to the CFIA -- and this is in the court record as well -- in mid-December, late December, they got a tip from-- an anonymous tip from someone near the farm in Edgewood, who said, there's all these birds dying on this ostrich farm, you should go check it out. On December 30th, two officials showed up at the farm. They collected samples from two of the recently dead ostriches. The samples tested positive for H5N1, and essentially the next-- like as soon as those samples came in the next day, CFIA ordered the farm to cull the entire herd by February 1st. Right after that, they assigned a case manager to the farm, and this person, you know, was talking them through the process and mentioned this -- according to CFIA -- mentioned this possibility of an exemption for rare genetics, and to do that, you essentially need to prove that you're flock has some sort of special genetic material and that it's in a contained area that can't be-- essentially can't catch the virus. Pasitney and, you know, her co-farmers kind of explain their work with the antibodies. On the 7th, the CFIA visited the farm again, and again in the court records they say they saw a lot of mingling between the ostriches and wild ducks and some other wild animals. Essentially, are questioning the biosecurity.

AJ: Like basically that they weren't following some kind of like protocols to stop avian flu from spreading.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Exactly. Yeah, it's like, for context, you know, if you have a commercial chicken farm... and I've actually been to a few not recently, because you can't visit [laughs] most of them right now. But after the floods in 2021, I visited a farm in the Fraser Valley. And, you know, even then, all the birds were dead, and we still had to like fully suit up in a hazmat suit, essentially.

AJ: Wow.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: It's pretty strict biosecurity, and, you know, stuff like cleaning the wheels of the trucks that deliver feed so that you don't, you know, transport the virus from like the driveway of one farm to the driveway of another. So definitely not kind of like an open-air pen situation. Anyways, on January 10th, the CFIA denied the exemption request and essentially said, you know, this cull still needs to go ahead by February 1st. And then on January 31st, Pasitney and the co-farmers got an injunction against the cull and went to court for a judicial review. And that decision came down on May 13th and essentially found the CFIA was right and that the cull should proceed. And then the farm appealed that decision, and that process is still ongoing. The decision hasn't come out yet. But in the meantime, yeah, the ostriches are still alive.

AJ: Right, right, right. Can you just explain how much of a concern avian flu H5N1 is both to poultry farms and to humans? Like why is the CFIA's policy to kill all the birds on a farm in the first place?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah. So essentially, like, to poultry, it's been devastating flocks around the world for several years now.

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REPORTER: America's chickens are in trouble. A bird flu outbreak is wreaking havoc at poultry and dairy farms across the U.S. Around 91 million birds in the United States tested positive for the virus in the past year alone.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: B.C. is kind of the Canadian hotspot with, you know, billions of birds dying. Essentially, you know, in a more conventional chicken farm, pretty much 100% of the birds that get infected are going to die. It's very transmissible, and it also can-- it can be transferred through wild bird flocks. In the States, it's one of the reasons that egg prices were so high during the election. It's 'cause all the poultry farms keep getting wiped out essentially. And in terms of health, you know, human health, there haven't been many infections of people, but when it does jump to humans, it's about a 52% mortality rate.

AJ: So meaning like, of confirmed reported infections, 52% of people who get it die.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah, exactly.

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AJ: So explain to me a bit more about the farm's argument against the cull. I mean, you already touched on it a bit. There's kind of two main arguments that they're making as to why they should be exempt from this cull, right?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah. So the first one is essentially on the basis of, you know, their birds have survived. You know, if you look at the farm now, according to Pasitney, the last death from avian flu was on January 15th, and we're in July now. You know, so essentially, this argument of, well, the birds obviously aren't dying. They aren't sick anymore. [AJ: Mm-hmm.] They have herd immunity; why should we be killing them? And then there's also, kind of alongside that, an argument, you know, that she explained to me, that essentially it's like a, quote, "sinister," unquote, attempt by Big Pharma to, you know, bury the farm's research on antibodies and make everyone reliant on vaccinations. So this is kind of, you know, where she's referencing this work that they started in 2020 with a researcher in Japan who kind of uses ostriches and ostrich antibodies. His work was looking at how it could be used to help either detect or potentially fight COVID. But yeah, just kind of like, essentially argument that ostriches have this like antibody generating superpower and we should be using it as a way to prevent or heal infectious diseases, including avian flu and COVID.

AJ: And do you know if there is published research about this-- about any of these ideas? Like firstly about, you know, like really powerful antibodies that ostriches have in general, or any of the specifics of the research that they are doing where it sounds like they're talking about making these antigen products that would be, like, some kind of alternative to vaccines in some cases, if I'm understanding correctly?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah. I'm also, I've also been trying to understand correctly. And I've, I asked Pasitney several times for, you know, records backing up these claims, and she didn't provide them to me. The work that she mentioned with the Japanese team at Kyoto University, they've been looking at ostrich antibodies for several years. The main kind of like headline-making part of the research was, um, I think it was in 2021. They created a mask that would light up under ultraviolet light if it got pieces of the COVID virus in it, and they used ostrich antibodies to do that. And then I've also seen, I don't know the details, but I also saw a company in Quebec was also kind of investigating if ostrich antibodies around H5N1 could help protect chicken flocks, like could help with some sort of vaccine or immunization. So, you know, there is, there is some genuine peer-reviewed research out there around ostriches having a lot of antibodies and passing these on through their eggs, essentially, to their young. Or at least, you know, having them present in the eggs and being able to be extracted like that seems to be fairly well established. The link from there to nutraceuticals and whether they work, I haven't seen anything so far.

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AJ: So what I gathered from talking to people about this is that this is kind of a big reason that this farm has become a real fascination and a really important cause for a lot of anti-vaxers too, right? That they're sort of seeing this as the potential of vaccine alternatives and, and that there's kind of been an information or perhaps misinformation machine that's kind of rolled on from there. Is that fair to say?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's fair to say. And actually, one element that I found interesting in, you know, observing the development of this story over the last several months, was there were some news reports back in January around, you know, the cull order. But not a ton. But I really first started looking at it when I saw this group called BC Rising. It's a very active, like, climate denier group. The more I looked into it, a lot of the key members were also very involved in anti-vax movement. This essentially B.C.-based community group that largely runs on Facebook. They have weekly meetings on Zoom. And they picked up the ostrich farms case. To me, that was where I really started to see like, oh, this is, you know, gaining traction in this right-wing ecosystem. And then pretty soon Rebel started picking up the story in January. They actually even had a fundraiser for the farm advertised on their website.

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DREA HUMPHREY: I'm Drea Humphrey with Rebel News. And if you're concerned about government overreach threatening farming sustainability, scientific integrity, and food sovereignty, let me tell you why you need to take just a few seconds to join myself and others in calling on the CFIA to reverse their culling order at our special website called SaveTheOstriches.com.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: And then from there, it just kind of kept growing and growing and growing. Meanwhile, you had, you know, in March, R.F.K. Jr. essentially, you know, went on Fox News and said, well, I think we should just let avian flu rip.

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ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR: The, the question is, should you cull those flocks? You should let the disease go through them and identify the birds that survive. Which are the birds that probably have a genetic-- have had genetic inclination for immunity, and those should be the birds we breed like the wild population.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: And it kind of fits with his Make America Healthy Again argument where, you know, we don't-- essentially he doesn't trust mainstream biomedicine. [AJ: Mm-hmm.] And this is how these kind of different narratives and pieces started to fit together.

AJ: And just to jump in there, I mean, this approach that R.F.K. Jr. has taken to bird flu across the U.S. has been really pushed back on by experts, right, who are saying, like, this is incredibly dangerous. And actually, if you just let it rip, they say that could increase, you know, the possibility that the new variants jump to humans.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah, that's totally correct. And it's actually one of the concerns the CFIA cited.

AJ: I'd love to talk to you more about what Pasitney and the family have said about, you know, some of these conspiracy theories and these claims. 'Cause, like when I just talked to her now, she said, we're not anti-vax, we're also not pro-vax, but that she felt like this whole debate that seemed to be bubbling up around the farm, around vaccinations, for her, was kind of like pulling attention away from the cause that they're trying to, you know, call attention to, which is what they see as one of government overreach and, you know, about saving their birds.

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KATIE PASITNEY: We have people spreading misinformation about our farm. We're a bio lab; we're funded by Bill Gates. Oh, if Dr. Oz and R.F.K. are involved, then, you know, we have to be... yeah, we're far right-- or, yeah, we're far, far right or, or far left or... It just goes-- it ping-pongs back and forth all over the place of who we actually are.

AJ: What is your sense of how the family has kind of, you know, reacted to becoming part of this big movement, especially around vaccines?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah. Well, what I've-- It's been interesting. What I've noticed looking at their social media presence and then kind of, you know, the narrative that they've built throughout the course of this story, the past eight months now almost, has been one initially that was much more kind of aligned with the anti-vax movement narrative. And then as, you know, the court cases have proceeded and it's drawn more attention and support and focus from right-wing media and supporters and influencers -- many of whom are, like, quite ardently anti-vax -- Pasitney and her family have actually become much more, at least, you know, in their official statements or more public communications, much more moderate in a way, is kind of what I've noticed. It's, you know, they've-- The, the narrative has become more focused on, you know, government overreach, and we don't know if this decision makes sense. And, you know, we want to protect these birds because of, you know, their genetic diversity. Or the way that she put it to me is, you know, we think they can help save humanity.

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KATIE PASITNEY: We're trying to protect the research that we've done with our animals to promote animal and human welfare naturally and sustainably. But, um, the message keeps getting lost by a lot of organizations, by vaccine and pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine. That's not what we're trying to fight for here. We're trying to fight for Canadian agricultural freedom and independence, and be able to protect our farmers.

AJ: So let's talk more about the government overreach argument here. Because, I mean, as you were saying, you know, they and many of their supporters are saying, look, these birds that died died in January. You know, December and January. Now it's the end of July. The rest haven't died. So, they say, you know, why not test the remaining ostriches, see if they have antibodies, rather than assume that they're a risk for, for spreading avian flu and killing them. And from scientists you've spoken to, you know, do they kind of have a point here?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Depends on the scientist. Um. The person that I...I talked to after that initial story -- this guy called Jeff Wilson -- he used to be at Guelph, Guelph University, works on epidemiology. Essentially has had a career in poultry and, you know, animal epidemiology. So his argument was essentially, you know, the CFIA is taking too broad of an approach. You know, the rules aren't-- are kind of more designed around trade. They don't meet the kind of specific needs and constraints and demands that an outbreak like this one of H5N1 would demand. So, you know, he's essentially making the argument you need to bring together a team of experts, and like look at each individual -- not necessarily individual farm, but kind of like individual region, individual, like, outbreak, and tailor a response to that in the context.

AJ: Right. Yeah, I mean, talk to me about the kind of, kind of bind that the CFIA is in here. Because, like you're saying, these policies are designed for big industrial chicken farms, where, you know, you might have, like, a broiler hen lives, like, six to eight weeks, and they have no-- they have, like, weak immune systems; 100% of them are going to die if bird flu sweeps through. Which, you know, is different from like a boutique ostrich farm with 30-year-old ostriches.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah, totally. Um. In the last 70 years, the poultry industry has become highly industrialized, highly mechanized. And the vast majority of the chicken that is produced and that we eat are from breeds that are, you know, essentially like one or two breeds. And they're bred to produce meat very quickly. So the response that you're going to have for those kinds of animals and those kinds of farms is going to be, you know, it's much easier to contain them. And if you lose the entire flock, obviously it comes at a financial cost, but you're going to be replacing that flock anyways pretty quickly. It's very stressful for farmers, but it's a very different approach and philosophy and like, you know, response essentially than what you'd have for, like you said, a boutique ostrich farm. Or even, you know, like a smaller heritage chicken breed farm. Like that's why they have the exemption process, right? Is because if you have these, you know, say, heritage chickens or like rare genetic breeds, you don't want to lose that genetic diversity. [AJ: Mm-hmm.] They have a system in place to accommodate for that, but it doesn't, it doesn't stretch far enough to accommodate for ostriches, at least from what we've seen.

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AJ: What does this whole saga say to you? Like what do you think this all means, if you could put a meaning to it?

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Oh, gosh. Um. [AJ laughs] I don't know. A few things. I think one is the power and the interconnectedness of the right-wing media ecosystem. You know, it's one farm in the Kootenays. Which is quite, you know, is a remote part of Canada. And, you know, it was initially kind of a cause taken up by a local online group of anti-vax, climate denial advocates. Just the scale and power of a story like this being able to essentially spread all the way up to Trump. Like at that July 15th press conference, Pasitney saying -- according to her and according to people that she's talked to -- Trump is aware of the situation. Which is kind of wild when you think of that spread, right? It's tying into this kind of like, I almost call it like an overarching conspiracy, that has existed for a long time in the right. This isn't from-- You know, this predates COVID. And essentially it runs-- you know, there's a group of elites globally who are trying to control people. And they're doing that using mechanisms like the UN, the World Health Organization, the World Economic Forum. And, you know, you see it showing up here. And initially, you know, in that first interview I did with Pasitney, that language of like it being a sinister attempt by Big Pharma to, you know, essentially force us all to take vaccinations, really echoes that narrative. And I think the other aspect -- and this really jumped out at me, and is, you know, a bit of a long-standing gripe as a journalist -- is, you know, the government, if you're not willing from an agency's point of view to kind of like talk about that nuance, talk about that decision-making process, admit that sometimes some of the regulations might not be-- might not make sense, but like be open about that and like communicate through it and like be more transparent, I think it would be a lot easier, potentially in this case, you know, to have limited the growth of, you know, the kind of conspiracies around this and the, like, impact of it. But also in other situations.

AJ: Yeah, it's, in so many ways, everything you said there just sound-- it just is such an echo of the whole COVID debacle and, and the way that took on this whole sort of misinformation life of its own, too.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Yeah, totally. Like it's an echo of COVID in a smaller scale. But in a way, it's really interesting to kind of like... to look at it and be like, oh, you know, we obviously haven't learned anything about communicating about public health, you know, in the last few years.

AJ: Marc, thank you so much for this, I really appreciate it.

MARC FAWCETT-ATKINSON: Thank you.

[Music: Theme]

AJ: All right, that is all for today. Thanks so much for listening to Front Burner. I'm Allie Jaynes and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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Can RFK Jr. save B.C.'s death row ostriches? - Transcript

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