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ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Hey, listeners, before we get started, just wanted to say we're approaching the end of our season and we're going to wrap it up with a Q&A episode. We would love to hear any questions or comments that you have about the show, this season, Harv and I please be nice—whatever it may be! We would especially love to hear your lovely voices. So feel free to record yourself saying your question as a voice memo. You can send us your written questions on Twitter and Instagram @IQ_podcast, and you can email us your audio questions. contact@iqpodcast.com. Lots of different ways to get in touch. I can't wait to hear your lovely questions soon!

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Harv, I know you said previously on the show that we should try to cover more topics that maybe we're less familiar with, with more opportunity for us to learn. And honestly, here we are. I don't know about you, but I personally don't know a ton about people who were formerly incarcerated. I've never met someone who was formerly incarcerated. How about you?

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, so Elena that was just said in passing. You didn't have to take me literally.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Okay. Alright.

HARVINDER WADHWA: But I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did, because this topic is of a huge fascination to me too. I have always believed that a fair society is one which treats its most vulnerable people fairly and prisoners or people who are incarcerated are fairly vulnerable.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: We spoke to some people who were formerly incarcerated about the questions they get asked. And one of the questions that came up the most talking to them was “Why did you do it?” Which makes sense to me. I think people tend to be really fascinated with why someone would commit a crime. You know, look no further than the fact that our society is obsessed with true crime documentaries and all sorts of media of that type.

HARVINDER WADHWA: True crime podcasts are more popular than our podcast. So just for the record.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Thank you so much for reminding me that fact haunts me in my sleep.

HARVINDER WADHWA: No, but but but but again, I am merely restating your point that it's a human fascination about why the crime happens.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, so let's talk to our guests.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Just a word of warning that our guests will be talking about some difficult topics and experiences like gun violence and sexual violence, substance abuse and trauma. Kadeem Reid was formerly incarcerated and currently is part of the Gangs for Tuition program with Keep Six, a nonprofit that assists people impacted by the criminal justice system.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Can you tell us about what happened and anything you want to, any experience you want to share?

KADEEM REID: I'm going to start off like this. I'm a product of my environment, straight up. I am a product of my environment, I grew up in the Rexdale community, Kipling and Steeles. So it is rough in Rexdale, I tell you that.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So folks who don't know this is part of Toronto.

KADEEM REID: Yes, I've seen things that my eyes were not supposed to see, growing up.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

KADEEM REID: Learning these things and these ideologies, you start to embody them because you do not have a proper mentor. So ain't no guidance going on, thus long story short, April 30th 2018, I was shot. My kids were in the car. My partner at the time was in the car. And at that particular moment, not being able to, as a father, as my children's creator, I could not defend them. As a king, in my mind, I was not able to defend my queen and I was not able to defend my offsprings. So that created a level of high anxiety, trauma and despondency. What I did is, hey what I'm used to because I'm a prior gunshot victim from before. I've been shot a total of eight times.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Wow.

KADEEM REID: Right. So what I did was I said, hey, listen, I failed as a father, I failed as a dad. You know how that feels to really have that feeling of failure. It ain't good. So what I did is, I went and I got a gun. Forty eight hours later, you want to know what happened? I was arrested with that gun. So not only did I get shot, 48 hours later, I was in a jail cell away from my family, away from my kids. So at the end of the day, it's like. I have literally every reason to do the wrong thing. I got every single reason to say F-U-C-K it.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You can swear if you want to. We’ll put a little warning.

KADEEM REID: Try to keep it clean!

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes, yes. So Kadeem going back to that, when you were arrested with a gun, that was I'm assuming that it was illegal weapon you had, I'm assuming is my assumption?

KADEEM REID: Of course it’s illegal, like, you know, like I got a criminal record. So there's no gun that's ever legal for me.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, fair, fair.

KADEEM REID: You know, I don't sugar coat nothing.

HARVINDER WADHWA: What I was trying to understand was that there was OK, you had an illegal weapon, but you did not hurt anybody, that's all I wanted to clarify.

KADEEM REID: No. Yes. So I had an illegal weapon, but I did not hurt anybody. This is what, I'm going to clarify this. My kids were like I’ve seen a bullet whiz past one kid's face and the next kid’s face: son, daughter. OK?

HARVINDER WADHWA: Right.

KADEEM REID: My son witnessed me get shot in my shoulder. All right. Like I reached over to my partner at that time and, you know, grabbed her to save her from gunshots. I mean, who wouldn't want to grab a firearm after that?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, I'm not even a parent or someone with a partner, but that sounds really, really scary.

KADEEM REID: It's scary.

HARVINDER WADHWA: It is.

KADEEM REID: It impacts me in this very moment. It impacts me throughout my life. I was in jail, I was incarcerated and I had to start my healing process for both events while I was in jail.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

KADEEM REID: I was having nightmares like I would. I was getting up out of my bed, punching my mattress. Like I was literally I was having dreams of getting shot again, like I kept having these dreams. And I, I could never forget it. I got up out of my mattress and I'll scream. And I was literally punching that mattress.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

HARVINDER WADHWA: And Kadeem, this was your first experience with jail?

KADEEM REID: Nah, dude. But it was my last experience, I tell you that. It was my last experience. And after that, I said, nah, dude, we ain't doing this no more. I know this. I know it too much now.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: This episode we're talking about the question, “Why did you do it?” And I'm guessing when people ask you this question, they don't know what you just told us of your whole story and your upbringing and stuff like that.

KADEEM REID: Right.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Can you recall a time someone asked this and how did that feel?

KADEEM REID: So like so first of all, people will look at me and be like, hey listen, you did it.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh, my gosh.

KADEEM REID: You know, we know you did it. OK, cool. I did do. But do you know why I did it? Have you ever took the time out of your thoughts and your selfish thoughts to ask yourself why I did it? Because I did do it. I'm not going to sit here and lie. I did do it. But why did I do it? That's the problem, everybody seems to not go to, for even the system. The system, they know there's a problem, in my opinion, they know there's a problem, OK, but they are not spending and creating the right amount of funding. They're not allocating the right amount of resources. They're not allocating the right amount of programing inside these facilities, inside these institutions. They're not allocating the right things to then cause a curve. We are looking to curve behaviour. We're not looking to uprise the wrong behavior. And that's why I'm so passionate. That's why I'm so motivated. That's why it's like I'm so animated, because I've been hurt too much. I've been hurt way too much. I and I didn't even have anybody talk to me like that about it. So imagine you keep getting hurt, like we're not talking about like you've been shot before. Anybody on this call me shot before?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: No, definitely not.

KADEEM REID: All right. So definitely not. So have you been shot, like, eight times before?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Definitely not, you are—

KADEEM REID: The trauma is so real. Like I got scars everywhere. You see that? That's from getting stabbed. All right. That's literally from getting stabbed.

HARVINDER WADHWA: That's not counting the...

KADEEM REID: No, that's not counting bullets too, that’s not counting the bullets. All right. We're getting hot now. Right. That's not counting that.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, so, Kadeem, you mentioned that you are a product of your environment so this happened way before you went to the cruiser the first time?

KADEEM REID: Yes. Like I’ve been going to the cruisers like I went through that whole phase.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Right. Right. So so the first question would be that where things could have changed so that you never entered the cruiser the first time?

KADEEM REID: School. School system. All right. They needed to grab the attention of my mind in school. I was just somebody that was just different. Like I'm even now I'm just different. Like, I'm just absolutely different. I've just got a lot of energy. I just got a lot of whatever. And at the time, I didn't know, I didn't know that I had a lot of energy and I had traumas I was facing in my neighbourhood and things like that. And they came out in the nature of school and I got suspended. I got expelled. I found myself so angry I would punch brick walls, I would do all these things. But I never had somebody. I didn't even know what was going on in my own brain. Now that I have the wisdom and the knowledge to go back and assess myself 17 years ago when I had this knowledge now and I look back and I'm just like, whoa, this is why I was angry for real, though. I wish I had somebody of importance like a mentor structure when I was a kid, to really say, “hey, listen you don’t need to go down that road.” So in that nature, yes, I could really say, hey, listen, you know the system did fail me on education basis level. And I'm very smart, I'm very intellectual, but I only got seven school credits.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Sorry what does that mean, seven school credits?

KADEEM REID: Seven school credits, which means I didn’t even finish grade nine.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I didn't go to school here.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You have kid in high school, like, come on! You're just letting her do her thing, it's like, oh, whatever.

HARVINDER WADHWA: She just tells me that she just passed. So that's good enough for me.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I love that approach, to be honest.

KADEEM REID: I like that. I like that.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, right. It’s a good parenting approach.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So Kadeem, you mentioned earlier that you are trying to heal from your past trauma while you were in jail. Can you talk about that a little bit more, please?

KADEEM REID: So the healing process starting it, as much as in my mind, I thought I was healing. I wasn’t healing. I am now just understanding what healing is. I am now just coming to that state of mind, of freedom. Finding this inspiration to be motivated, that's tough because the claws that incarceration has on the psychological mindset, it's like detriment, like it's detrimental. So when you go to jail, you're segregated—straight up. Even if you're on a rage, GT, PC, whatever it is, once you in jail, once you go behind a cruiser, once you go in a holding cell, you're segregated. Simple. Now imagine if something happens and you've got to face any disciplinary action. You go to further segregation. You're further isolated. So imagine the impacts that like that could have on an individual. Yes, individuals are there for doing crime. But still, it's hard when you have to live in these conditions, it’s hard when you have to, you know that there's not really nothing to look forward to. You don't have a routine. You don't have anything. Your legacy is of jail. So if your legacy and your mind, you're getting up every day and you're living on a mind, that is your legacy, I'm doing jail time and your mindset is broken. If you break somebody's mindset, you could literally put a whole new mind in them.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Just before we wrap up, I want to circle back to the question of asking people, “Why did you do it?” Would you say that this is an inappropriate question? And what would you say to someone who wants to ask this question?

KADEEM REID: I would say it's a very inappropriate question, but people don't understand. Some people, some people understand the inappropriateness to the question and some people really don't. Some people, they get so in tuned with you that they're like, oh, “so what made you do it?” and they know that there's like a profound story behind it. Right. So to me, it depends on where your heart is asking that question. I would say, like, if you're just going to come up to an individual and be like, hey, listen, I know you're in jail, blah blah blah. Why'd you do it? Come on, dude, that's like that's like it's almost like a hole punched in the face, like that's like, oh, why'd I do it? I would tell you right now.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Do you sometimes just do that to people? Give them your full story if they ask this question?

KADEEM REID: I give them the full 4-1-1. And there's a reason because I want to make everybody see that. Hey, listen, I was already changing my life. So this is not like something like I was already a changed man. So this is not like I went and I went back into a lifestyle. No, no, no, no. I was already a changed man. So now that this happened and my family was involved, that I created and illustrated, what was I supposed to do?

[Music]

JAMES RUSTON: My name is James Ruston. I'm a prisoner of Corrections Canada since my arrest in 1989, 17 years old, and I've been on parole for the last almost two years in Toronto. 5 In my mind, I wasn't seeing it as me going into a criminal act. For me, it was more of a moving away from emotions that I had not been able to process. I watched my six year old brother drown when I was four years old, and that was a trauma that impacted me, my family. For me, it caused a real separation from most of my other social contacts because people couldn't understand the experience that I had been through. And I had difficulty understanding how other people were living their life without this sense of impending loss, this unresolved sadness and anger. And so when people say, you know, “Why did you do it?” Or when my family gets frustrated, you know, if I'm out on parole, I end up slipping into substance use to kind of quell the anxieties that I'm kind of stuck with for life. They know I'm at risk of going back to prison. I know I'm at risk of going to prison. But still, I’ve made that choice to take that risk. The moment of relief provided through substances takes precedence over any long term consideration for consequences that might come up. “Why did you do it?” the better question is how do we get out of this? How do we break this cycle of harm that really empowers us again to look at our criminal justice system and how we treat prisoners because if we can create really positive, healthy circumstances for people and we're going to get y’know positive, healthy behaviour out of them.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: To hear a bit about the broader context behind this question, we're speaking to Sara Tessier. Sara has been an advocate and peer support worker with many organizations helping institutionalized people in Canada. Sara, can you tell us about your story with incarceration and what led you to where you are now?

SARA TESSIER: Absolutely. Now to speak on being incarcerated, I'd have to go back to what led me there in the first place.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, for sure.

SARA TESSIER: And that it all stems. And I believe that people that are incarcerated are victims themselves. You know, that underlying trauma that's unresolved is what leads to an offense passed in the first place.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SARA TESSIER: And with my childhood, it was no different. So I was sexually abused by my father. But not only that, I was sold into the sex trade at the age of three by my father. When I was eight and I tried to tell somebody he shot himself, but he didn't die. My mother gave me away that day. I grew up in foster care after that, until the courts gave me back to my father two years later and it continued.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh my gosh.

SARA TESSIER: And at that time I tried to tell several people and they ended up nothing was done until my vice principal when I was 15 and then I was back in foster care again. So all that led to abandonment issues and a lot of other issues always needed to be accepted. I learned at a very young age, bouncing around from foster homes and going to new schools that if I acted like the class clown and got laughs, that meant people like me. So that led me to acting out in ways and those maladaptive behaviors that led me to my offenses in the first place. I ended up dating somebody who I shouldn't have, she was much younger. And, you know, there was drugs involved and lots of drinking and partying. And I was putting on this facade of having this lifestyle that was lavish and just to impress her. And one night I was sitting around with her and her friends and they were talking about an armed robbery they did and got away with it. So me wanting to impress them and be cool, I said I can plan one in ten minutes and pull it off and get away with it. And they're like, yeah, right. So I did. So we committed three armed robberies within the six day period. And, you know, I was still going to work every day. I was still doing what I needed to do. I had my son at home, my three year old son at home. But when I got tired of doing things like that and I told her it was time for her to be on her way, she went to the police and told them everything. So I was arrested and I immediately admitted to what I did. But there was several other charges that she was trying to put on me that, you know, just to try and make it worse. I was denied bail. I ended up going to court and got handed down, well it was a joint submission for eight years. My lawyer said they were looking at 23 with all the charges. And if I plead guilty to the ones that I did that, they would do a joint submission for eight years. So that's what I did.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So from there, how did you get to where you are now?

SARA TESSIER: So from there I took a really good, hard look at myself and said, “OK, what needs to change? What do I need to do? I need to figure this out.” I was in full survivor mode and a lot of that came with those behaviors of I was always getting hurt. So I better hurt people first. So that way, you know, whoever hurts first is the one on top.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SARA TESSIER: And I carried that through my life as well. So I worked really hard at trying to figure out what I can do and what I needed to change. And I can tell you that Correctional Services Canada was no help in that because I had asked for mental health services so I could address the unresolved trauma, which they denied me saying I was low needs and I didn't need mental health services.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh my gosh.

SARA TESSIER: It was very difficult. They like to stick to their blanket program one size fits all. And that's supposed to be the way they reform people. But everybody knows that Correctional Service Canada is nothing more than punitive. It's not rehabilitative, so that doesn't work. So I just fought hard and I started building a network. Every time volunteers came into the institution, I met with them. I was consistent with it. I'd go to the resource fairs. I did every program I could sign up for healthy relationships, conflict resolution, grief and loss. And that's where I found my passion to help others.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Boy, boy. There is so much to unpack.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah. So it sounds like when people ask this question, “Why did you do it?” it's actually pretty complicated to answer. Like the answer in your story goes back quite a ways.

SARA TESSIER: Well, initially when I was asked the question, I was looking at the immediate time of the crimes. So it's like, well, why did you do it? Well, because. You know, I just did. Somebody made a comment about doing it, and I wanted to one of them, but the truth is it goes way back further than that. It all comes back to that unresolved trauma. If I didn't have the abandonment issues I had, if I didn't have that need to be accepted, that need to be wanted, that need for people to like me because I didn't get any of that nurturing as a child, then it wouldn't have led to that in the first place.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Absolutely. Absolutely.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And in your work with because you're as a peer support worker, do you find that that's a similar story for a lot of the people you work with, that there's that they can like they see that connection between their earlier lives and the places they went?

SARA TESSIER: Absolutely. And that I'll tell you something, when you talk about the Correctional Services Canada, you know, and their blanket program, it's all about, oh, well, people use drugs, so they go to jail. They commit crimes because they use drugs. No, they use drugs to numb out the trauma and they commit crimes to support that habit to keep the trauma at bay. So, again, it all leads back to that.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SARA TESSIER: And, you know, it's a vicious cycle and it happens. You see it with every client. They've all come from a traumatic background or some form of trauma in their lives.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SARA TESSIER: Out of all the women incarcerated or who have been incarcerated in Canada, I think the statistics are 83 per cent have suffered from some form of sexual trauma in their lives. And that's just self reported. So the numbers are probably much higher.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Higher yeah. Wow.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I want to go back to something you said earlier, that our prison system is purely punitive to me. People incarcerated are one of the most vulnerable people. And if we treat them justly, if we treat them right, that is a society I would want to live in. But what I'm hearing from you is that may not be the case. Maybe you want to elaborate a little bit, but you did mention a little bit on the correctional facilities.

SARA TESSIER: Absolutely. So prisons, that's such a misconception because they're purely punitive. And not to mention you're taking the most marginalized, victimized, institutionalized, criminalized people in society. And the first thing that happens to them is they get traumatized and victimized when they walk through the door and they have to be strip searched. That's the most traumatic thing for people, especially considering the high numbers of people that have been sexually assaulted or traumatized in their lives. So you're already taking people who have been victimized and traumatized. You're doing it all over again. You're putting them into a place where they go in there. They don't have the health services that you would have in the community. Not that those are much better. They don't have the mental health services. And, you know, there's so many things I can go on forever about how horrible it is to be placed in a prison when what they could be doing is addressing all the needs out in the community with the supports and they wouldn't need the prison in the first place. People can be rehabilitated in the community, surrounded by great support, great services, but instead nobody funds those areas. And that's where the government needs to step up.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So for me, we have to understand a few things. And again, Sara, you're the expert, so please jump in whenever. So to me, why do we incarcerate people? Is it too, is it for the purpose of justice? You did harm to somebody, so no harm must come to you? Or is it to ensure that you don't do the harm again? Or is it and that's the moral imperative of some sort.

SARA TESSIER: People feel safe when they think “bad” people, I'm using quotations, are locked away and kept away from them. That's how that's how it makes society feel. iIt's the white collar. It's a white privilege. You know, I'll feel safer when all the poor, the discriminated against, the marginalized, the victimized are put away out of my sight. That makes me feel safe. Mm hmm. And that's why we have prisons. The police are out there. They're targeting the minorities. We know this, but society promotes it. Society pushes for it. And it all stems from ignorance. It's that lack of knowledge, that stigma that criminalized individuals carry, that society places on them. But yet, if you have a well-off family in a white collar neighbourhood who commits a crime, what are they going to get? If they drink and drive and kill a child, they'll get a slap on the wrist. But if you get a poor Black man from a neighborhood that isn't, you know, up to society standards, they're going to spend their life in jail. How fair is that? And that's what society puts on that. That's what society creates.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I also want to look at from the other point of view. So there will be criminals who are not, they are likely to reoffend. It could be their mental health issue or whatever the case may be, which will be they will be a danger to the society. I want you to comment on that aspect of it as well.

SARA TESSIER: OK, and that's very common when I talk about being a prison abolitionist. Why not address the needs of people before they offend in the first place? You know, if there's mental health issues, address those mental health issues in the community before people go down that path and offend. There's warning signs, there's red flags, there's everything before somebody offends. People just don't pay attention because there's nowhere to send them to get the help they need.

HARVINDER WADHWA: But having said that Sara, I still think there will be some people. The number may be very small, but there will be some people.

SARA TESSIER: And yeah, absolutely there will be. Absolutely.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: What would you say to someone who asks you “Why did you do it?”

HARVINDER WADHWA: And is that an inappropriate question?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh, yes. We always like to ask.

SARA TESSIER: Well, in all honesty, for me myself, I don't mind because I'm so open about everything, you know, and it gives me that opportunity to educate people.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SARA TESSIER: And that's what's important. Is it an inappropriate question? I think for most people that have to answer that or are expected to answer that, it's probably more inappropriate in that you're asking somebody that they may not have the capability or the skills to understand. I think that's the inappropriate part of it, is that you're asking something of somebody that they don't comprehend themselves.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right. Like you said earlier on, getting this question, you would have just referred to what happened in the moment and directly leading up to it. But now when you think back on it, it's more about your whole life and the things that led you to that moment.

SARA TESSIER: Absolutely.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Is there something you wish people would ask instead?

SARA TESSIER: One thing you could be asking is “What do you still need to move forward?”, “What will help you get to where you want to be?”, and “What can I do to help?” And, you know, here's something I learned while inside. I was a very judgmental person, too. But being inside and doing the work I did and also the work on myself, I realized who am I to judge somebody else when I don't know where they were at the time they did the things they did. And it's not my place to know. And that made all the difference in the world for me, because it allowed me to focus on me as opposed to everybody else, you know, when you walk up to somebody who's been formerly incarcerated or who is currently facing the impact of the criminal justice system rather than looking down on them. Look at them as a victim, because that's what they are, they're a victim of something themselves, and find out what you can do to help them heal, because that's what's going to bring society out of this.

[Music]

HARVINDER WADHWA: Elena, this has been another amazing episode, but this was one again, which was a little bit outside our comfort zone.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I feel you.

HARVINDER WADHWA: And I go with that adage that every complex problem has a simple solution, which is wrong. So we have to look at this into a very, very broader picture. People who commit crime, it's not just perhaps one day they just wake up and they commit crime

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: For sure.

HARVINDER WADHWA: It's a multifaceted problem. And as a society, if we look at that problem in a little bit more depth, then we will never be able to eliminate the crime, but we reduce the crime.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, like you said, out of our comfort zone, it's a difficult topic. Our guests have been through a lot and we're so fascinated by this question. But it's more complicated than I think a lot of people think going into it when they ask this question.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Absolutely. And this by no means is condoning the crime.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah.

HARVINDER WADHWA: We are just trying to understand

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Where it comes from.

HARVINDER WADHWA: And again, scratching the surface where crime is coming from.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, there's a lot of different perspectives on crime we haven't heard from, like maybe someone who studies this, you know, people who have been affected by crime in or as a victim or in a different way. There's a lot more to get into with this topic. But I think definitely we learned a lot about where these things come from and people's misconceptions.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I can tell you with this episode, I am a little stressed.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Me too. Me too. I am sure our listeners can hear it. See the self care tips from a couple episodes ago.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes, I think that would suit me!

[Theme]

HARVINDER WADHWA: I'm Harvinder Wadhwa.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And I'm Elena Hudgins Lyle.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Thanks for getting inappropriate for us.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: A huge thanks to our guests Kadeem Reid and Sara Tessier. You also heard a voicenote from James Ruston.

HARVINDER WADHWA: If you’re interested in listening to more stories about the prison system, check out Life Jolt, a CBC podcast about women navigating Canada’s correctional system. To find a full transcript of this episode, make sure to visit cbc.ca/iqpodcast.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: The very tired troup behind this podcast are Sabrina Bertsch, Cindy Long and myself. The show is mixed by Andrew Norton. Our chase producer is Sarah Melton and our digital producer is SK Robert. Our senior producer is Geoff Turner and our executive producer is Arif Noorani.

[Theme out]

HARVINDER WADHWA: An inappropriate question is, well, the true crime podcasts are more popular than our podcast.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And we're not bitter at all, we promise!

HARVINDER WADHWA: No, no, no. We're not bitter at all.

Transcript: Inappropriate Questions - Season 3, Episode 12

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