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The Secret Life of Canada: Season 6, Episode 9: The Royal Proclamation

Hosts: Leah-Simone Bowen and Falen Johnson

FALEN JOHNSON: This is The Secret Life of Canada, a podcast about the country you know and the stories you don't.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Our government has been serious in our obligations set out in modern treaties. We're committed to fully embody true nation to nation and Inuit Crown relationships. And to make sure we see results, we have co-developed the collaborative modern treaty implementation policy. So today, I am extremely happy to announce that together, we will be moving forward to create a Commissioner for modern Treaty implementation as an Agent of Parliament.

[applause]

FALEN JOHNSON: Hey, Leah.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Hey, Falen.

FALEN JOHNSON: So this is from a press conference in early May where Prime Minister Trudeau is speaking about the creation of a commissioner for treaties in Canada. And it kind of popped up at the perfect time, because there's something that I've been thinking about, something that would go on to guide treaty making in Canada, the Royal Proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay, I have heard of the Royal Proclamation, but I'm not exactly sure what it is and what it means and if it has any relevance today. So let’s go.

FALEN JOHNSON: Well, same. No, same. Same. And that's why I wanted to look at it.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. Well, we selfishly use this podcast to learn about things we want to know. So. So let us begin.

FALEN JOHNSON: What I knew about the Royal Proclamation before this was that it was issued by George the 3^rd in the 1700s, after the British beat the French in the Seven Years War. And the proclamation made it possible for the British Crown to negotiate treaties and the ceding of land with indigenous people, mainly First Nations.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Well, that already sounds like a lot.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah, but this is all really the tip of the iceberg, because once you scratch the surface of this thing, you realize how deep of a rabbit hole you can go down. What I wonder now is what it means in a modern context. And the Royal Proclamation, it wasn't the first agreement First Nations people made with the Crown. So what happened to all those other agreements that took place before the proclamation was proclaimed? What about those treaties? Are they impacted?

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: So what you're saying is you have a lot of questions.

FALEN JOHNSON: I have so many questions.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay, let's try and answer some of them.

SOUNDCLIP

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The Royal Proclamation.

FALEN JOHNSON: So to understand where the Royal Proclamation comes from, we have to go back to the earliest days of treaty making in the Americas.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay, right. And we can't really separate Canada and the US at this point because they didn't exist.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. And the proclamation would play an important part in forming both Canada and the US. It impacted history in a really big way. But let's go back to an early agreement my people, the Haudenosaunee, made with settlers, the Two Row Wampum or the Guswenta, as it is called in Kanien’Keha, the Mohawk language.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right. And we have spoken about wampum belts before. These belts, as I've learned, are not belts people wear, but are traditional agreements or documents made out of wampum beads.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. And wampum beads are created out of the shells of the quahog clam. The shells would be carved into small tubes and then shaped into beads, and then woven together with string to create a belt. The belt could document history or agreements. The two rows signified an agreement, and each bead woven into the belt carried the words and the weight of that agreement.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And the belt has three rows of white beads and two rows of purple beads. And the belt kind of signified stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine. Is that? That's right?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah. In a nutshell, that's kind of what it meant. And there are a lot of like really cool in depth interpretations that you can watch on YouTube. I watched like a million of them. We can link to some of that stuff. So the Two Row Wampum signified an agreement about how settlers would interact with the Haudenosaunee, living side by side without interfering with each other's way of life.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Wait, did someone not stick to their side of the agreement? I feel like this is where we’re going.

FALEN JOHNSON: I know. Shocking. Shocking.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Tell me more.

FALEN JOHNSON: Okay. So this agreement was made in the 1600s. The belt had three guiding principles. The first was friendship, the second was peace, and the third was that the agreement would last forever. And while the Haudenosaunee solidified the agreement with wampum, the traditional way of creating agreements, the Dutch wrote it out on paper.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Which would have been their way of making agreements, even though the Haudenosaunee had been using wampum for their agreements way before settlers had arrived.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. But then the British show up and they push the Dutch out of the area. But the British kept the agreement of the two row going. They wanted to maintain good relations with the indigenous folks in the area. They wanted peace and they wanted to trade. And this was reciprocal. The settlers coming in, they wanted furs, but they also had iron tools and guns to trade with the indigenous folks, and those were highly sought after items. The British added something significant to the wampum belt. They added three silver chain links.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. And what did those chain links signify?

FALEN JOHNSON: I spoke to Rick Hill. He's Tuscarora and has done a ton of research on wampum, and he's even helped to get some of our belts that have been held by museums back to our communities. He's so badass and I could listen to him talk all day. So on that wampum belt, there are two rows of purple beads. Those are to signify two boats travelling. When I spoke to Rick about the silver links that were added to this belt, he told me that they were to symbolize connecting the boats or canoes to bond them together, but also to keep them separate. Silver was chosen because it could be polished, whereas other metals could rust and break. Polishing the chain was a way to renew the relationship.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. So the Mohawk had their way of making agreements, so do the settlers that came in. And yet, these two groups found a way to honour both methods of agreement making.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. As more and more settlers began landing on our shores, more and more agreements were being made between indigenous nations and settler nations. This agreement making was happening all over, often starting in the East Coast, or at waterways where settler ships would be landing on our shores.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And I just imagine if we tried to look at all these agreements and dissect them, we'd be here all day then, because that sounds like a lot.

FALEN JOHNSON: I think we'd be here for many days.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. Yes. A lot. But I'm going to give us the basics. There are so many ways to categorize these agreements that were happening, and nowadays, the government likes to divide them into two major categories, historic and modern treaties.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay.

FALEN JOHNSON: First, let's take a look at the historic treaties. First up is peace and neutrality. And so this would have been happening in the early 1700s. These would have been about, well, maintaining peace. In the 1700s, there were different colonizing powers coming on to the land, primarily the French and the British. Conflict was breaking out over trade. And at this time, it was all about fur and the importance of fur. Everybody wanted fur.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Yeah. And I mean, we've covered some of this especially. You can listen to our crash course on the Beaver. RIP all of the beavers at this time, basically. And you can learn about that. That's in season four.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. Sometimes in these peace and neutrality treaties, land would be given up so that First Nations could retain hunting and fishing rights. Some nations signed with the French and others with the British.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. So there were different indigenous nations aligning with different colonial nations as well.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. Okay. So next up, let's look into the Peace and Friendship treaty. So these would have also been in the 1700s. These were signed on the East Coast and laid out mutual obligations. They were really about attempting to establish peace between nations, some of those being the Mi’kmaq, the Maliseet, the Passamaquoddy and the British. These treaties ensured things like reserved land, supplies to farm, some money and rights for hunting and fishing. Other historic treaties were the Upper Canada Land Surrenders and the Williams Treaties, the Robinson Treaties and Douglas Treaties, and the Numbered Treaties. I know it's a lot of treaty, and these are all very densely complicated treaties in their own rights.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. Something tells me we will be talking about these in a future episode.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah, I kind of didn't want to, you know, and again, they're complicated. They're all very complicated with very specific ways of being laid out and the processes with which they were undertaken. So yes, we will save those for another day. So those are what the government calls the historic treaties.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay.

FALEN JOHNSON: And what's important is what made those numbered treaties possible, the Royal Proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. Good to know. So where and why was the proclamation announced?

FALEN JOHNSON: Well, to understand that, we need to talk about the Seven Years War. And it can get confusing talking about wars because, you know, the start dates and what they were named can differ depending on whose side you are on. The Seven Years War is what it's called in Canada, but the US calls it the French and Indian War.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right. And just because it was called the French and Indian War doesn't mean the British weren't fighting, right?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. Yes. And so the start dates of these wars are different. The French and Indian wars are said to have started in 1754. And in Canada, the war is said to have started in 1756. And this is because the US uses some of the skirmishes that led up to the war as the start date.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: They're always trying to get ahead of us. You know, we started things before you. It's like, okay, calm down. Okay. And the Seven Year War, it's sometimes been called the, you know, the original World War because of how much of the globe was involved. There was North America, India, West Africa, the Philippines and the Caribbean. And then we had all the colonial powers like the French, the British and the Spanish. So it's just almost everyone, you know?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes, absolutely. And you can basically think of them as like nesting dolls of war or a war within a war.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: What a fun doll set.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah, totally. Move over, Barbie.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: It's kind of like the original G.I. Joe, it sounds like.

FALEN JOHNSON: Oh, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Anyway, we can have historical doll debates later.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: We can check with that later. Yeah.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. By the mid-1700s, the population of the 13 colonies would have been around one million people.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And the 13 colonies would have been on the eastern side of what is now the US, that would stretch from Massachusetts all the way to Georgia. So it’s huge.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. So this stretch of land would be cut off at the Appalachian Mountains. And on the other side of the mountains was what some regarded as French territory. And yes, I have a hard time saying that because obviously, there were lots of First Nations people who were living there farming, caring for the land. Their numbers, however, were being compromised by the introduction of settler diseases.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right. Things like smallpox.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. As the settler population grows in the 13 Colonies, people begin to move westward into the Ohio Valley, which again was considered French territory. Maybe.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: That's what the French considered their territory. Maybe we can put it that way.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah. So but this movement, this migration of people from east to west, it really is kind of the spark that started the French and Indian War.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. So you have British settlers moving into the Ohio Valley, which the French have laid claim to.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. So the Seneca who are living in that area are led under the guidance of women, of course, because it's a matrilineal society. But the chief, the chief that the women are backing is a guy named Tanaghrisson. The English call him Half King. The Seneca village is near the forks of the Ohio River. Chief Half King grants permission to the British to build a fort to trade nearby.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And I imagine the French were all like, mon Dieu, why do they get a fort?

FALEN JOHNSON: My God, you know the French are going to be sending in letters.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: I'm going to get letters. I'm sorry, everyone, but I had to do it.

FALEN JOHNSON: You are going to. Yes. Yeah. No, they weren't happy about it, so they start setting up their own forts in the area. And Half King tells them, you know, to get out of there, to leave.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Those, those exact words?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes, those exact words in Seneca. This area was key. Both the French and British were superhot for it. The Ohio River connects to the Mississippi River. And we know back from our episode in season two on the importance of water why the Mississippi was so important. It connects the Great Lakes all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Yeah, and it's not like there were trains or anything at this time. Waterways were the highways.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. For the British and French, it would connect their emerging colonies and trading posts. It would allow for these colonial powers to expand westward. And when the Seneca chief Half King gave permission for the Brits to set up a fort, it really didn't sit well with the French because it had huge implications. They marched on the fort and forced the British to leave. So this was not cool with the Seneca leader, Half King. He had granted permission to the British to be there, and so there was a bit of humiliation there when the French went against his word.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right. The British were all like, isn't it lovely to see the French… I was trying to do a British accent.

FALEN JOHNSON: I know. I know.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Because I made fun of the French, so I’m just trying to equalize it.

FALEN JOHNSON: I no. No, I caught that full circle moment for you.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: But I'm sure that the British loved that is what I’m saying. I'm sure they loved it.

FALEN JOHNSON: So Half King agrees to fight alongside the British in the battle. The British are successful and a bunch of French are killed, including a French commander named Jumonville. And because the two colonial powers weren't at war, this was considered murder.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Oh, and so it's not considered murder when they are at war? That’s strange.

FALEN JOHNSON: I guess not. I don't fully understand the rules of war.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Very weird. Okay.

FALEN JOHNSON: So Washington asks the Seneca to fight alongside him, but Half King has lost faith. He finds Washington kind of arrogant and unwilling to take his advice. So alone in the fort, the British are attacked and defeated. And maybe if he had Half King on his side, it might have been a different story.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: So he was kind of done with both the French and the British.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. I mean, I did read some places that Half King kind of hated the French more because they had boiled and eaten his father.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Excuse me. What?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay. Well, I think that's a really legitimate reason for not liking a group of people. What in the world?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. These events, all of what I've mentioned here, is really what led up to starting the war officially.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Well, yeah. And I'm just going to put a pin in the boiling and eating his father part. We got to get back to that at some episode. Wild. Wild. But let's continue about the war.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. So this war was about land, trade and the economic opportunities that came with it. Both the British and the French had indigenous allies. Some Algonquin, Lenape, Wyandot and Ojibway sided with the French. And my peeps, the Haudenosaunee, AKA the Six Nations, sided with the Brits. The war ended in 1763 with the British as victors, but thousands were dead on both sides, and France had to agree to give up the majority of its land holdings in North America. Enter the Royal Proclamation.

FALEN JOHNSON: So to recap, The Seven Years War, AKA the French and Indian War, has ended. The British dominate the French and the French need to give up most of their territory. But there are still some little bits of land kicking about, and there are French people who are still around. And so the situation is tense. And to further complicate things, all these First Nations who had sided with either the French or the British, there would be tensions between those groups too. Fighting was still happening and you can kind of see why.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And now we get to the Royal Proclamation. What was that supposed to do?

FALEN JOHNSON: So the British needed to try and get control of the chaos. They needed to establish rule over their new French subjects.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: I don't think it worked because there's still tension between French and English people. I feel like it's part of the fabric of who we are.

FALEN JOHNSON: It has nothing to do with anyone doing… it has nothing to do with the pantomimes that Anglos do on podcasts about the French accent either.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: I don't know what you're talking about, but yeah, language and culture is still a very hot button issue in Canada.

FALEN JOHNSON: It is. It is. So the proclamation set out guidelines as to how settlers would settle. There were so many people moving onto indigenous lands under fraudulent circumstances, and the Crown knew that indigenous nations were not happy about this land encroachment. The proclamation was set up to formalize a way that the land would be settled, ceded or sold. It all had to go through the Crown or Crown representatives or their successors. The Crown had to acquire the land from indigenous nations, and then it could be sold or used by settlers. Nothing could be done without the consent of the Crown, and no one could interfere with indigenous nations on their territory. Leah, could you read this section of the proclamation?

SOUNDCLIP

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And whereas it is just and reasonable and essential to our interest and the security of our colonies that the sovereign nations or tribes of Indians, with whom we are connected and who live under our protection, should not be molested or disturbed in the possession of such parts of our dominions and territories as have not been ceded to or purchased by us, all reserved to them or any of them as their hunting grounds.

FALEN JOHNSON: The proclamation established everything west of the 13 Colonies as Indian land. So that's most of Turtle Island or like seven eighths of North America.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay, that's a lot of land.

FALEN JOHNSON: It is a lot of land.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: So this all sounds like it was a good thing in the beginning.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah, I find it all very complicated. The Royal Proclamation is sometimes called the Indian Bill of Rights or the Indian Magna Carta. But was it? It was a paper written out by some white folks on the other side of the ocean and signed by a King, George the 3^rd, who had never set foot on our lands, had never looked us in the eye. It's just this thing that happened to us.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right.

FALEN JOHNSON: It was a paper agreement, and many indigenous nations didn't deal in paper. To make it real to indigenous folks, Crown official William Johnson, the first superintendent of Indian Affairs, was instructed to try to establish peace.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And how did people feel about him? Did that position even translate to indigenous people? Like did they…

FALEN JOHNSON: Well, yeah. He had deep connections to the Haudenosaunee, specifically the Mohawk people. And he would eventually marry a powerful Mohawk clan mother, a woman by the name of Molly Brant.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Oh, he married Molly Brant. Yes, I've heard of her. And clan mothers were really the decision makers, right?

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. Mohawk people are matrilineal.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: So how was he supposed to achieve peace then? Because he's no one, essentially, in this equation.

FALEN JOHNSON: Well, I mean, those allyships like that, was it a really important allyship that he had? So what he did was he sent out copies of the Royal Proclamation to different nations, from Nova Scotia all the way to the Hudson's Bay and even down to Mexico. But Johnson did one key thing. He attached wampum to the proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: So this takes us back to the earliest days of agreement making, like we spoke about early on with the Two Row wampum.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. So Johnson held a meeting at Niagara in 1763, where he explained the proclamation to the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. The following year, he called for a gathering at Niagara to discuss the proclamation with other nations. That summer, many people gathered from nations like the Wyandot, the Odawa, the Anishinaabe and the Menominee. Over 2000 representatives from 24 First Nations.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Wow, that's a huge amount.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. Over the course of that summer, leadership met and spoke with Johnson and discussed what the proclamation meant, what was being agreed to, and what were the terms of the agreement. It wasn't just about land. It was about relationship. Again, calling back to the Two Row wampum, it would establish peace. And it meant that we would be allies and we would fight alongside the British in times of war. Gifts were given and some money, but this was really about sharing the land. It wasn't about giving it up. And assurances were made that trade would resume under British protection.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And so what was the result of all of it?

FALEN JOHNSON: By the end of that summer, Johnson and those First Nations leaders gathered were in agreement. And to solidify that agreement, it was entered into wampum. A belt was created. This belt showed two figures side by side, holding hands in peace, and had the year 1764 on it. This would be the Silver Covenant chain belt.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Yeah, it clearly looks like it's making a peaceful statement.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yes. And this was important as it established a method that Johnson and the Crown could negotiate with other nations. But it also gave First Nations a footing to remind the Crown of their promises and obligations.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: But would they adhere to them? I mean, that's my question.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. So they did stop some settlers from settling on lands, but I think, you know, we can see how things have been going fast forward to now.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right.

FALEN JOHNSON: Yeah. So the proclamation would also anger some settlers. They, you know, they really wanted to head west, and the proclamation said, no, no, no, you can't go over there. They wanted unrestricted access to our lands. The proclamation is also cited as one of the reasons, that that led to the American Revolution.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Wow, so this thing had some pretty big implications.

FALEN JOHNSON: Exactly. And I had no idea how big. So when war comes, like the American Revolution or the War of 1812, that's why so many First Nations people fought alongside the British. Many were trying to honour that agreement, the Treaty of Niagara and the Royal Proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Okay, this is so helpful and helps me put into context that time, because I've often wondered why I've read about so many First Nations fighting in those wars. Like I was like, what's in it for them? But I get it now.

FALEN JOHNSON: And I think it extends beyond those wars too. You know, I think about the people who've gone over, and I can't help but think this all has something to do with it.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right.

FALEN JOHNSON: So in my research for this episode, I read a paper by a lawyer, Paul Williams. And in it, he really breaks down the proclamation. And it does this fantastic job of showing correspondence between government and Crown officials and indigenous nations where the wording of the Royal Proclamation is echoed throughout it, which to me signifies a collective remembering, right, a collective continued agreement.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Oh, interesting. That's so interesting.

FALEN JOHNSON: And so, you know, to me, this really points to the ongoing nature of the Royal Proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right.

FALEN JOHNSON: So it's still used. You know, it's used when indigenous people go to court to fight for their land, for hunting and fishing rights. And why not? In 1973, Canada's Supreme Court ruled that Aboriginal title exists. It's never been repealed, so it's still a legal document. And in 1982, the proclamation was enshrined in Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, meaning that nothing can terminate the rights laid out in the Royal Proclamation.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: But how can that be? Because I feel like nothing is happening, like that it's not being respected or adhered to at all. Am I wrong?

FALEN JOHNSON: Well, they don't remember what was agreed to in our wampum belts, and it seems to be selective memory when it comes to the Royal Proclamation. We will hear it quoted in speeches, but then it just goes away again until we bring it up in court when we are defending our land, hunting or fishing rights. And then we point to the thing that they made, the rules that they made, and somehow it doesn't count. And it's frustrating and it makes me mad.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Yeah, that's understandable.

FALEN JOHNSON: We can think of it this way. The proclamation is decreed, then more treaties are made. And by the 1870s, we have the Numbered Treaties going on, then the Indian Act. So what the hell is being agreed to here with all of these agreements? There's just paper on top of papers. No wonder it's confusing. And no wonder your average Canadian is confused as to what any of this means. What I think is important is the text of the proclamation, which says…

SOUNDCLIP

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And whereas it is just and reasonable and essential to our interest and the security of our colonies that the several nations or tribes of Indians, with whom we are connected and who live under our protection, should not be molested or disturbed.

FALEN JOHNSON: Nations. This is why many First Nations people call ourselves that, because we were and we are and we will continue to be. Just like Canada is a nation, just like the US, just like the British, we demand to be respected as nations. These aren't just empty words.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right.

FALEN JOHNSON: So when Prime Minister Trudeau says…

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: We're committed to fully embody true nation to nation and Inuit Crown relationships.

FALEN JOHNSON: And…

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: We agreed on an independent oversight and accountability mechanism to ensure the government is living up to the spirit and intent of those treaties. So today, I am extremely happy to announce that together, we will be moving forward to create a Commissioner for modern Treaty Implementation as an Agent of Parliament.

[applause]

FALEN JOHNSON: We are listening and paying attention. And yes, I want to be optimistic, but give me a reason to be.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: Right. I mean, it's also like show us. You know, like you can say a lot of words, but, you know, you got to do something about it.

FALEN JOHNSON: And I am already a bit sceptical because there are some words in here that make me wonder what we are talking about.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Modern treaty implementation.

FALEN JOHNSON: Modern. What does that mean? Off the top of the episode, we spoke about historic and modern treaties. Modern treaties only started to take place after 1975. Are we going to get to talk about the Numbered Treaties? Are we going to get to talk about Robinson and Douglas Treaties? Are we going to get to talk about the Royal Proclamation and the Treaty of Niagara? Something tells me that the office of the Treaty Commissioner is going to have to.

FALEN JOHNSON: This episode of The Secret Life of Canada was written and produced by me, Falen Johnson.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: And me, Lee-Simone Bowen, with sound design and editing by Graham MacDonald.

FALEN JOHNSON: Script editing is by Yvette Nolan, with research assistance by Andrea Eidinger and CBC archives. Our logo is by Patuo’kn Illustration and Design.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: For CBC Podcasts, the coordinating producer is Roshini Nair. The executive producers are Cesil Fernandes and Chris Oke, and Tanya Springer is the senior manager. Kate Evans is the senior producer.

FALEN JOHNSON: The director of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani. You can find us on Instagram at thesecretlifeofcanada, and our full show notes and links on our website, cbc.ca/secretlife. Reach us by email, secretlifeofcanada@cbc.ca. Special nia:we to Paul Williams and Rick Hill for speaking to me and sharing their knowledge for this episode.

LEAH-SIMONE BOWEN: If you learned something in this episode, please share it with a friend, and thanks for exploring Canada's hidden history with us.

TRANSCRIPT: The Secret Life of Canada, Season 6: The Royal Proclamation

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