'We can't shop our way out of this': Why all those Black Friday deals are costly for the environment

Guests: Ken Rogers, Adria Vasil, Tim Stanford

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VOICE 1: So we are looking basically mostly at clothes. The winter jackets and so winters are kicking. And I think it's a good thing because there are certain brands, I think, which normal we cannot afford.

VOICE 2: I find the sales on Black Friday aren't great either. So it makes the whole holiday season, I guess, very commercialized.

VOICE 3: I think it's great. I mean, if you can save, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 percent, I mean, I've seen in some places it's even on furniture, you know, 50 percent furniture is great. You know, finding a new sofa, that's great.

VOICE 4: Consumerism is okay. Keeps the economy going. You know, it's how we build the new roads and stuff. So, you know, somebody, money just got to come from somewhere, so.

LL: Some shoppers in downtown Toronto getting the jump on Black Friday deals. And today, while millions throughout North America and beyond are enduring long lines and large crowds to get those door crasher specials, others are choosing to boycott the annual retail extravaganza. In France, some lawmakers are even trying to ban Black Friday, saying it causes resource waste and overconsumption. And protesters are picketing Amazon headquarters there today. But is it really so black and white? We're taking a hard look at Black Friday today. Ken Rogers is associate director of the Management and Arts, Media and Entertainment Program at York University's Schulich School of Business. Adria Vasil is an environmental journalist and the author of the Eco Holic Book series. They're both in our Toronto studio. And Jim Stanford is an economist and the director of the Centre for Future Work. He's in our Vancouver studio. Hello to all of you.

GUESTS: Good morning.

LL: To start with. I want to get each of you to weigh in on one thing. How do you react when you hear the words Black Friday, Adria Vasil?

ADRIA VASIL: Well, you know, I know there are so many sales out there that tempt us all into shopping today, but I can't help but think about the environmental ramification of so many of those purchases. I think it's one thing when we're buying products that we need that happen to come on sale. But so many of us are getting lured into shopping for stuff that we absolutely do not need. And you know, that is tied to so much resource extraction, you know, mining for the metals and the plastics involved and ending in the ocean. Toxic chemicals dumped downstream linked to so many of the products that we buy at this time of year. And so I always get a little bit, you know, a little bit leery when I hear about, you know, all the hauls that come in at this time of year.

LL: You're having a bad reaction. Ken Rogers, Black Friday, your thoughts?

KEN ROGERS: Well, as an interested observer of media and media culture, like whenever I heard it here, the term Black Friday, I immediately picture a sensational YouTube video, you know, viral video of people fighting over the last X box or hitting each other or rushing the door like some crazy mob. You know, where it was sensational news story. But I actually think that, you know, while these caricatures are kind of fun, there's actually something much more deeper than this oversimplification that gets at the root of certain contradictions and tensions within our society that are expressed through some consumer culture.

LL: And we will get into that. Jim Stanford, your turn. How do you react to the words back Black Friday?

JIM STANFORD: I kind of have a big shrug of the shoulders as Laura, to tell you the truth. I mean, obviously, it's a big thing in marketing and I guess in our culture. But economically, it's pretty much a non-event. It doesn't really matter to the economy that for this weird reason, we concentrate so much shopping on one day. It doesn't alter the total amount of shopping that we do and it doesn't alter the trajectory of the economy. So I'm yawning at my end, and not just because it's early in Vancouver.

LL: It's early in the morning out there. Adria, so he's saying it doesn't much impact on the economy. You say it has a big impact on the environment.

ADRIA VASIL: Well, I mean, our consumer economy has a major impact on the environment and we are buying more stuff every year. You know, as a whole, we're buying 50 percent more material goods than we were 50 years ago. We're buying I think it's 40 percent more clothing than we were 1980 and so it isn't necessarily just because of Black Friday, but as a whole, we're getting lured by marketing and online targeting, etc. to encourage us to buy more stuff cheaply. You know, goods are cheaper and cheaper and it comes at a cost to the planet and to the workers that produce them.

LL: So Jim Stanford, doesn't all of this shopping, though, help boost our gross domestic product?

JIM STANFORD: Well, shopping in general does, Laura, for sure. Consumer spending is something close to 60 percent of total GDP and the fact that, you know, working people and they get paid, they then go out and spend their money is one of the things that keeps the economy chugging along. So on the other hand, there's big trends, bigger trends, I would say, than a Black Friday fad in our consumer spending. For example. Most consumer spending is now on services, not on stuff. And services makes up about 70 percent of the economy. So without downplaying the environmental issues that Adria has quite rightly pointed out, as we shift our budget more towards services and away from stuff, there's actually some environmental benefits from that. So I think, again, that all of the hype around Black Friday and everybody going shopping makes it seem like everybody's obsessed with something that comes in a big box. But the real underlying trend of the economy is not actually going in that direction.

LL: Adria, I want to give you a chance to respond to that.

ADRIA VASIL: Well, I would say that actually there is an enormous environmental impact to the services we consume as well. And let's not forget that. I mean, we have, you know, not just Black Friday now and Cyber Monday, but travel Tuesday. And let's forget about the carbon footprint of our travel choices, etc. And when lifecycle analysis have been done on the goods and services that we produce anywhere, they're attributed to having anywhere from 10 to 60 percent of our carbon footprint, depending on which goods and services you factor into that equation. So services do have a large footprint. Let's not forget about that, Jim.

LL: Okay. Ken, let's get over to you and ask you, why do you think the Black Friday phenomenon just exploded over the decade?

KEN ROGERS: Well, I want to disagree with Jim a little bit here. And it's more than just about the bottom line of the cash registers of companies are making money off of the profits of these sales. But the bottom line, hit by many people who are feeling further and further squeezed by precarious economy, unemployment and other serious economic issues that face them. And consumer choice is one of the spaces where Black Friday and the attendant Cyber Monday and now Travel Tuesday actually afford them a space where they might be able to access some of those goods that are actually goods that they need to survive and to stay at pace with society. So I think there are some darker sides to Black Friday, although I wouldn't completely disregard it as a cultural phenomenon that has a lot of meaning to people. And I don't think that should be discounted as something that's important.

LL: And you're leading right into some tape I want to play you. I want you to listen to Henry Mckoy is an associate fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School Ash Centre. He says, we need to look at Black Friday in the greater context of who it affects.

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Many of the individuals that take advantage of it are minorities, racial minorities. In U.S., African-Americans, Latinos who are in probably most targeted for Black Friday. They can replace items that have broken down over year. They can probably get equipment at lower price, get good bargains on items that they may not be able to afford during the rest of the year.

LL: So, Ken, how targeted are racialized and lower income groups in Black Friday marketing?

KEN ROGERS: I think they are and I think they are in multiple ways. If I may just share a brief anecdote of what actually got me interested in Black Friday in the first place. It was in 2008 when Jdimytai Damour, who was a Haitian immigrant, was killed at the doors of a Wal-Mart in what is crowd rushed in to take advantage of the sales. You know, from this unsettling event what I found even more so unsettling is the kind of racialized way that scapegoating kind of played in the news coverage of this event. There were a lot of serpentine helicopter shots from above. Reminiscent of the 1992 L.A. riots. There was a lot of new coverage that kind of disparaged the crowd as this kind of mob racialized in that crowd and so forth. So I think that, you know, if we look a little bit deeper that anxiety and that panic was actually a very legitimate expression of the fact that at this moment, black folks in 2008 were had been targeted by subprime mortgage lending schemes and were much harder hit by the kind of fallout from the 2008 Great Recession. So, you know, I do think there is there's a more serious side to some of these behaviours. And I think the black and brown communities feel that pain a lot more than maybe other parts of society. Okay.

LL: So that idea of targeting racialized lower income communities. Is there anything wrong with lower income people, depending on this day to get the deals that they need?

ADRIA VASIL: Oh, absolutely not. Which is why I think at the top I mentioned that, you know, if you are using this day to access sales, to access goods that you need that you couldn't otherwise afford, then absolutely take advantage of it. And even if you're buying, you know, more environmentally friendly goods, this is a great day to do it, partly because you might not be able to access those goods on another day. Today they are more affordable, although, I mean, the idea that Black Friday is the only day the deepest sales exist is actually kind of a myth, too. So we can get into that later, you know. But part of the problem is also the fact that we, this, the whole retail holiday that's built up around this creates this hyper consumerism that isn't necessarily tied to - we have to differentiate between need versus that kind of hyper consumerism. And we do have to look at the fact that businesses are driving these flash sales that create this kind of rushed panic buying that does create this fear of selling out, this fear of missing out. And it creates a frenzy that is actually dangerous to the consumer in many instances that we've seen across the states in particular. And I think that has to stop. And I think that's actually one of the benefits of shifting away from Black Friday as the ultimate day to, you know, buy on sale and having it spread out actually over the year and over this month. And actually, the cheaper sales are, according to the surveys, post holiday anyway.

LL: Jim Stanford, do you want to weigh in on this?

JIM STANFORD: Well, I mean, Black Friday itself is a marketing gimmick. Let's face it, these are stores that are in business to make money, and they're always looking for ways to get more shoppers into their store at a particular time. So, again, I don't think we should be too carried away with this particular marketing gimmick. Now it's spread from America to Canada and other countries. So now people go out and look for bargains on Black Friday, we used to go out and look for bargains on Boxing Day. So I honestly don't think that anything has changed. And we certainly shouldn't disparage people who are out looking for bargains. Ken and Adria are right that a lot of low income people are going to have to look for bargains because they don't make enough money to pay for the necessities of life. But again, that's a a problem 365 days of the year. And the solution to people having not enough money is not to have a big sale. The solution is to give them more money. And, so in that regard, obviously, we're not going to disparage Black Friday and anyone who goes shopping on Black Friday. But I think we can put this marketing gimmick in the context of an overall retail sector that's still struggle.

LL: So you'd like to see pay raise Wednesday.

JIM STANFORD: Now, that is a catchy title. Let's go with that.

LL: So I did mention that there really is now some pushback against this idea of a Black Friday and everything that surrounds it, everything we've been talking about. Let's listen to one more person jump. Jean Marc Champagne is the co-owner of Fromagerie Bothwell in Winnipeg. People were asking him about Black Friday deals and that got him thinking. Here's what he's doing instead.

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At first, I wasn't going to do anything, but then I kind of do the opposite. Instead of trying to boost our sales, trying to raise money for deserving charity. So instead of doing like door crashers or all sorts of, you know, crazy sales or discounts, what we're going to do instead, we're gonna donate 20 percent to Morebrock house, which is a transitional residents here in the neighbourhood where we're established in Winnipeg and they help the less fortunate overcome homelessness, addictions and mental health challenges.

LL: So there you hear Jean Marc Champagne is donating 20 percent of each purchase from his shop to charity. Adria, what do you make of that, this sort of counter Black Friday?

ADRIA VASIL: Well, actually, we're seeing a rise in this whole kind of push for Green Friday, which is businesses that are taking an alternative approach. Now we're seeing companies like Patagonia donating to charity. We're seeing Ariana closing its doors altogether. I know one Swedish kid's clothing company said we're not going to sell any new clothes today. We're only going to sell second-hand clothes or rent second-hand clothes. And so people are looking for alternative ways of spending this day. And it's also raising questions about, you know, the economy in general and switching to alternative models. When we do talk about, let's say, renting used clothes versus always having to buy. And the fact that this is coming out of Europe is not a surprise. I mean, they're the ones that are pushing to say, let's get rid of- let's push Black Friday out of Europe and back into the states. We're seeing that movement now, too. But yes, I mean, I saw a beauty company yesterday advertising in their window that they'll be closing for a Black Friday because they don't want to contribute to the frenzied consumer hype buying that is pushing people into rash consumer decisions. And it was nice to see them own up to the idea of, you know, excessive consumership.

JIM STANFORD: Jumping on that with Adria and just say I'm sceptical of how much that sort of emphasis on personal choice will truly affect the trajectory, either whether it's the social inequality or the environmental consequences of it all. I mean, the reality is we're going to have to put in place rules and regulations and structures to limit pollution. We can't tell people don't go out and shop as the solution. So again, in that regard, I think both the hype about Black Friday and then the focus on critiquing Black Friday as a symbol of rampant consumerism, I think is misplaced. I think we're going to need bigger structural measures, not just trying to guilt individual consumers into thinking well don't go shopping because that's bad for the environment.

LL: But I wonder if media have a role in all of this, too, in their coverage of both Black Friday and now this counter movement. And just as a note, for whatever it's worth. I noticed last night that Anna Wintour of Vogue was urging people to buy second-hand clothes instead of fast fashion.

JIM STANFORD: Well, she shouldn't tell that to her advertisers.

LL: But I'm wondering Ken Rogers, what do you think?

KEN ROGERS: Well, actually, I think Black Friday historically has been sort of a Rorschach test for media. You know, I think back to 2001, Black Friday became really associated and political in a new politicized in a new way as it occurred just a few short months after the 9/11 attacks in George Bush's tax cut. That created more consumer spending, but it became immediately associated with, you know, shopping, took on this political rhetoric that was. It was taken up by political record rhetoric that was construed as a patriotic duty of citizens. It was almost like a buy war bonds type of moment for Black Friday. And that's sustained throughout those years in the early Iraq war period. You know, again, in the 2008, as I mentioned before, there was a lot of anxiety that was focussed on the structural conditions around the Great Recession. And I think currently we're seeing three different shifts in the media coverage. One has to do with its increasing globalization that Black Friday is now no longer just a U.S. phenomenon. It's extended into Canada and France and all over the world. The second I think that we're seeing is we're seeing significant pushback from two distinct groups. One has to do with the environmental movement that is a Black Friday has become a potent symbol of unsustainable overproduction. And I think the third is that there's a real push back on the kind of cultural effects of Black Friday that, you know, groups that are promoting mindfulness or communal experience that are entirely outside of any kind of marketplace or are on the rise. So I think this is another interesting moment that very much, again, if you follow the red thread, speaks to our historical times and the media's covering that.

LL: Adria Vasil, I'm wondering when you see the movement to have Black Friday banned and the protesters did, does it give you hope that people are paying attention to the environmental message and not just the consumerism?

ADRIA VASIL: Well, I mean, listen, today isn't just Black Friday. It is also Fridays for future. And thousands and thousands of young people around the globe are marching and striking for the climate to day on Friday. And it is definitely inspiring to see them take the streets. And it's nice to see some businesses shuttering and encouraging employees to join Black Friday. It is inspiring to see people trying to take an alternative approach. But I mean, Jim is right. We can't be putting the blame on the individual shopper and we shouldn't be putting the blame on the individual day as well. Those go much deeper than this, I think. I think it does give me hope that more people are questioning the kind of traditional take, make dispose economy and were looking for alternative ways of expressing our affection over the holidays and our affection for the planet, too. Because this is really such a pressing issue right now. And I think there's just a greater need to act. For instance, I mean, the U.N. yesterday said we need to cut emissions by 55 percent globally in the next 10 years and we can't shop our way out of this mess.

LL: We just said this idea of different ways of showing affection. How do you balance the desire for material goods in a world that's filled with inequality and the cusp of climate catastrophe?

ADRIA VASIL: Well, you know, in our family, a few things. We you know, we kind of have a system of if we are going to buy stuff, it's basically just for the kids. And but we do trade encouraged by experiences or not even by experiences. There are things you can do like, you know, free babysitting coupon and that don't cost anything or an excursion down the town, go skating at Nathan Phillips Square. But also, you know, just supporting second hand. My sister in law says, look, don't buy our kids new stuff they don't need. They're going to go through toys so quickly. Please, just buy the toys second-hand. And that's something for more of us to keep in mind. I mean, I was actually surprised to see The L.A. Times yesterday, I think it was, say that a buying second-hand is hot. One of the hottest trends this season.

LL: Jim Stanford. So ultimately, who are the big winners and big losers on Black Friday?

JIM STANFORD: Well, the big winners are the retail stores that managed to actually increase their market share out of this. But because they're all competing with each other, that's hard to come by. And in fact, the whole retail sector is a bloodbath financially, despite all this marketing and all the sales. If you do go out shopping today, spare a thought for the retail workers. They're the ones who have to put up with that unruly mob. And retail workers, of course, are some of the worst paid people in society. Half of them can't afford to buy the things that are on sale in the stores where they work. So that's another social dimension of it that we haven't talked about it. Ultimately, Laura, I reject that. The whole emphasis on the sort of consumer choices behind this. Yes, people make money. Yes. They have to buy stuff to support themselves and, you know, go out and get the best deal that you can for your money. But don't think that your personal choices are really either the problem or the solution. And if we're concerned about inequality in the environment, then let's put. In place rules that actually solve those problems rather than pointing the problem, they're pointing the finger at individual consumers.

LL: All right. Ken Rogers, last word to you. We have about 30 seconds left. We are being critical here. But is there a positive takeaway from the Black Friday frenzy.

KEN ROGERS: Yes just to be a little contrarian here. I do think with all of this gloom and doom, there is something very, very powerful about the experience of going out and having a communal experience with people. So I don't want to disparage anyone who wants to participate in the event. I think it's part of our social ritual. I think there are powerful emotional connections in late capitalist consumer society around shopping. And I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that as we try to develop other ways of understanding our culture and connecting with it. It's perfectly fine to go out and have a little fun.

LL: Interesting discussion. Thank you to all three of you.

ADRIA VASIL: Thank you.

KEN ROGERS: Thank you very much.

JIM STANFORD: Thanks, Laura.

LL: Ken Rogers is the associate dean of research at Art's Media Performance and Design at York University. Andrea Vessel is a managing digital editor, editor with the sustainable business magazine Corporate Knights. They were in our Toronto studio. Economist Jim Stanford joined us from our Vancouver studio. Well, the CBC News is coming up next. Then in a new documentary, it puts cameras in the hands of incarcerated women.

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It was awkward at first. It's like, why do I do? But once I started getting really involved at the film, I was like, this story has to be told. It's not even just my story. It's thousands of women across Canada's story too.

Meet the former inmate and former guard who dreams of making prison for women obsolete. I'm Laura Lynch, and you are listening to The Current.

How a documentary about women in prison handed the cameras to the inmates themselves

Guests: Nance Ackerman, Bianca Mercer, Tanya Bignell

LL: Hello, I'm Laura Lynch, and you're listening to The Current.

[Music: Theme]

LL: Still to come, we speak to the sister of the Maltese journalist who shocking murder has made headlines around the world. There are new developments in the case. But first, fixing corrections.

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VOICE 1: I got arrested and charged with more trafficking and robbery and breaches. And I'm pregnant and probably going to have a baby that I won't be able to raise, and, yeas.

VOICE 2: You know what was missing wasn't there for you when you got released, but you made it.

VOICE 3: A place to live, a home.

LL: Those are the voices of Bianca Mercer and Tanya Bignell. The scene is the central Nova Scotia Correctional Facility in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. Bianca was a prisoner there. Tanya was a guard. The story is a familiar one to anyone involved in the corrections system. Over a 10 year period, the number of federally sentenced female inmates has increased by close to 30 percent and the number of indigenous women increased by 60 percent. So for the new documentary, Conviction, the filmmakers invited the women in prison to imagine another way. The film airs on December the 1st on the CBC Documentary Channel. Bianca Mercer and Tanya Bignell, as well as the film's co-director, Nance Ackerman, are in Halifax. Welcome.

NANCE ACKERMAN: Hi.

BIANCA MERCER: Hi.

TANYA BIGNELL: Thank you.

LL: Bianca, let's start with you. What made you want to be a part of this documentary and share your story?

BIANCA MERCER: In the beginning. I was kind of like, is this just another jail movie, like, they're just trying to make us look bad and all that crazy stuff. So I was a little set back at first, but when I realized then these women are coming in here and actually wanting us to speak our story and actually listen to us and be authentic and get down to the issues in society, then that's when I kind of sparked a real interest and it ultimately changed my life and got me to where I am right now. So, it's been great.

LL: Yes. And you've come a long way. I mean, we hear you in that clip that we just played, a really vulnerable time in your life. What happened after you were released from prison?

BIANCA MERCER: It was devastating. I had eight months clean time in and I got released with literally a note saying I got released and two bus tickets and I was sent on my way and I didn't know where I was going. And I had plans. But plans don't really work, especially when you have no money or supports on the outside. And I was back off on drugs selling drugs again within days of me being released. And like you can see in the film that I'm calling all these places and detoxes. I'm like basically falling asleep on a bench. Like I needed help. So it was really, really frustrating. It was just a cycle I got caught up in and I end up getting more charges and then going back to jail. And that's when I found out I was pregnant with Thia.

LL: Right. And so, Tanya, I'm wondering, how often did you hear stories like beyond prison when you were working as a prison guard?

TANYA BIGNELL: Well, everybody has a story, and it's just to what degree of severity they are. Most of the females have sustained a lot of abuse, childhood abuse, neglect, sexual abuse, intimate partner violence, domestic violence. And they basically raised themselves. So they basically learned how to get by on their own the best way that they could. And a lot of that had to do with illegal things and things that they learned from off the streets.

LL: Nancy, let's turn to you. Where did the idea of this film begin for you?

NANCE ACKERMAN: Well, this is a co direction project between myself and two other filmmakers, Theresa MacInnis and Arielle Pahlke. And the three of us actually were inspired by, well, the very first thing was the statistic that you read off at the beginning that so many more women are being put into prison. They are the largest growing prison population worldwide. And then I was pretty inspired by Kim Pate, Senator Kim Pate now, who at that time was the E.D. of Elizabeth Fry. She, to me, was this driving force to bring awareness to the plight of women inside about segregation and the idea that we really need to bring the supports to the community as opposed to spending money on prison.

LL: Right. And Kim Pate has been involved with Elizabeth Fry Society and the issue of women in prison for decades. But there was also- then you start to get to know the women who were part of your documentary. And I'm wondering what struck you about them.

NANCE ACKERMAN: I think Tanya sort of mentioned I think this this. Combination of two different things where you have such intelligent, articulate, creative people who are so wounded. And I think that combination is what makes the film. At least we feel really powerful. That's what drives the film, is that you've got these people who could be anyone, they could be your daughter, they could be your sister, they could be, you know, your mother and what they could do out there if the conditions had just been different. That's what I got from it. And that's what made these women so special.

LL: You actually hand the camera over to them for the film. Why was that important to you?

NANCE ACKERMAN: Well, I mean, the film itself, between the three of us, was a massive collaboration and we felt that who were we to speak for these women. The collaborative nature of handing over agency and power in the film was something that we started off with the minute we started talking about it, all three of us are collaborative filmmakers. And it was a challenge because you're dealing with people coming in and out of prison. And so a lot of the time they just evaporate when they come out. We started out with 10 women and the four that we ended up with were sort of people that we had to bond with. And then it was their responsibility to reach out to us when they got out. So it was a real risk, but we really think it's worth it. And I don't think there was no other way to make this film.

LL: Bianca, what was that like for you having the camera and making yourself vulnerable that way?

BIANCA MERCER: It was kind of awkward at first. It's like, what do I do? But once I started getting really involved with the film, I was like, you know what? This story has to be told. It's not even just my story. It's thousands of women across Canada story, too. So just seeing how amazing the women were with regards to picking up the cameras and actually doing the work and wanting to tell their stories was just motivation in itself, especially when you see other people that are doing the same thing as you do it also. So it was it was definitely weird at first, but empowering at the end of it for sure.

LL: Now, you heard both Tanya and NANCE talk about how people like you end up in prison, how it could have happened to so many of us. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Why did you first wind up in the prison system? What was your crime?

BIANCA MERCER: When I first went to jail, it was for just small, little petty theft, possession of little tiny bits of marijuana. I was a kid, basically doing kid stuff, stealing chocolate bar. But as I grew, I was already in the foster system as a kid. And then I grew into the justice system around 13, 14, and it ultimately took a robbery. I had committed a robbery at a drug store and I was so far gone in my addiction and just didn't even care. I actually ultimately did it for a man. A man was kind of like, we've got to do this. I owe this much money to this this man and da da da and we need the money. We need the money. So he basically drove me to a drug store and said, go in and get it. So that's what I did and I end up going to jail for it for the first time. And once you're in the system, you're in the system. It's not that hard to go back.

LL: How old were you at that point?

BIANCA MERCER: I would have been my first time in Burnside I'm 21, 22. I think, 26 now it was four years ago.

LL: Tanya, is that is that typical of the kinds of ways that women wind up in the prison system?

TANYA BIGNELL: Yes, absolutely. It's. It starts off usually something small things like Bianca said, a chocolate bar or.

BIANCA MERCER: Survival crime.

TANYA BIGNELL: Yes. It's a single mom that stole groceries at the grocery store because she wanted to feed her kids because poverty is widespread. So then they resort to stealing. They resort to selling drugs. They resort to sex, the sex trade industry and just plain robbery. So, you know, they have great hearts. They really do. They have a lot of personality. The women have so much potential, but they need somebody to help them show their potential.

LL: Bianca, what was the hardest thing about being in prison?

BIANCA MERCER: The hardest part, I would say, is having no control. You basically become institutionalized. You get used to someone turning off your lights. You get used to someone bringing you three meals a day. You get used to just sitting there watching TV in a day room full of 11 other women. Getting used to it is that the scary part because you shouldn't be getting used to something like that. And when women actually consider it their second home, that's where they feel safe. That's where they feel most comfortable. And that just goes to show how big of an issue it is in society that we're making jails comfortable. Some people, not so many, I have a big mouth, so I don't let things slide as easy as some women. But just watching us just kind of get used to it is the saddest thing. Scary.

LL: What didn't you let slide?

BIANCA MERCER: Just like being spoken to by the guards certain ways. And like doing strip searches that were unnecessary and stuff like that. When you have a big mouth like that, you kind of end up doing a lot more hard time. People are just like, do your time and get it over with. But I'm not like that, especially when some of the guards just get control happy. Some guards shouldn't be guards. And then there's guards like Tanya that actually have a genuine heart and want to see you do good. But she's there for a paycheque. She can't really, like sit there and, you know, not go to work and not do her job because then she's getting in trouble, too.

LL: Like Tanya, you talk about your own struggle. You don't want to cross over the line and I can hear in your voice that you clearly care about these women. But I've got to say, it can be hard to square these women that we meet in the film with the fact that some have serious drug issues have engaged in violence. There's a young woman who admits in the film that she bashed another inmate's head against a door. So I just need you to address what it was like to work in and in an environment where that kind of violence actually happens.

TANYA BIGNELL: You know, my take on it and I didn't see some to the extent some of the stuff that actually does happen. I suffer myself from complex post-traumatic stress disorder, from the job, from the job and also from my own past, my own abuses and triggers in my life that have happened to me. And I have severe anxiety. I'm on my own little cocktail of medication to be my high functioning wreck that I am. But the job is very difficult for the most part. You have to have very big, broad shoulders to be able to encounter the things that you encounter every day, the things that you do as an officer, because there's policy that we have to follow. And regardless of your own ethics or your own beliefs and certain things that you shouldn't be doing, if you got hired to do a job, you do the job. I had a hard time coming near the end when I decided to finally leave. A lot of things were affecting me and my personal health, my mental health and well-being. And it just is not a place for me anymore. I miss it because I miss being in touch with the females and helping them and dancing through the day room, joking around with them, singing with them and trying to be that friendly face when they did come in the back door at their most vulnerable time. People don't realize how many correctional officers that are in there that actually do care and want to make a difference and that suffer from, you know, a lot of mental health issues because of the things that we do see that just aren't normal.

LL: Tanya, I'm so sorry about that. If we can come back to Nance. You invited a group of women to actually reimagine an alternative to prison. Tell me what you ask them to do.

NANCE ACKERMAN: We basically ask them when we came in to the prison at the beginning of their whole exercise of giving them, you know, art supplies and musical instruments and film cameras and still cameras. We basically asked them to picture what they would have needed on the outside to have prevented them from coming in in the first place. And if they had the money, the 100,000 \dollars a year that it costs to imprison them, if they had that money, what would they do with it? So they took that challenge immediately and started creating their own worlds. They created films, they created artwork, beautiful spoken word and haikus. And we basically left them to their own devices once they got rolling. And from that created a thing called from the ground up, which I can let them talk about now.

LL: I'm going to ask Bianca, so tell me about this idea you and the other inmates came up with. What was your vision?

BIANCA MERCER: At first, it was just kind of something after jail, home to go to and sitting down further with Kim Pate. She's like why not make it an alternative? Why does it have to be after president? We just kind of look each other like, yes, why not like. Why don't we do that? Like, that's crazy. Like, we should've thought of that.

LL: But it just shows you how difficult it is to imagine life without prison.

BIANCA MERCER: Yes.

LL: So, yes. Go ahead and tell me what it was you came up with.

BIANCA MERCER: So from the ground up basically as a three stage programme, I guess you could say. First when you come in you kind of get really down and dirty into your mental illness and addiction issues and any kind of trauma. Just lo detox you and try to make a program that's individualized for you. And then the second stage is more privacy and programming. So you can live there and grow there and do the program that you created in Step 1 and then ultimately you could leave after you've finished this program. But the third stage would be more long term living and school and education and getting a job there and actually helping from the ground up grow, and grow and grow and mentoring. And so that's where it is now. There was a lot of the women really wanting to be part of it and just a lot of us kind of faded away. They need from the ground up. They can't really help build it at this time. So now it's kind of just me and Tanya pushing along with everything and we're trying to create a non-profit organization and started go fund me once that started and see where it heads. But we just need that paper trail.

TANYA BIGNELL: Yes, we've got a build our executive.

BIANCA MERCER: Yes, we've got to get a chairs person. So if you know anyone interested let us know.

LL: Tanya, I'm wondering, why do you think this will work with women who have been subject to so much serious substance issues, self-harm? Why do you think this could work?

TANYA BIGNELL: Well, you know, when you're a child and you go to walk across the street, what's the first thing happens? Your mom or your dad hold your hand. They guide you across the street. So in different levels of your life and the things that you do. You have somebody there to help guide you. These women did not have that. They need somebody that will hold their hand, guide them in the right directions and be patient and give them not love that care to be able to give them even just a simple hug to have a set schedule. You know, just okay, this is where you need to be at 8 o'clock. This is where you need to be at 10:00. Stability. And just people who actually have life experience. I bring a lot because of my history. My heart just pours out to them when it comes to different abuses and things that they've been through. So I kind of want to put myself in position within, from the ground up as the matriarch of the hosts to kind of like make sure that every day their needs are getting met. The mediator when it comes to, you know, when two kids start fighting. I mean, you get to have a mediator. There's somebody there to kind of like, okay,.

LL: Yes, that sounds like mom.

TANYA BIGNELL: Yes. So this is what these women need. They need somebody to basically hold their hand.

NANCE ACKERMAN: But also too, it sort of feels like what was part of from the ground up. And they worked with architects as well inside. While this whole idea that the women were productive and needed as well. A sense of community. And I think that's a huge thing Kim Pate always talks about is if they get released and, as Bianca described, you are out there, the only community meeting you is you're drug dealing community or your pimp. So this community that meets you is a place that needs you too, that needs you to come back to work, that needs you to help with, you know, the farming or creating your organic vegetables or in the hair salon or wherever.

TANYA BIGNELL: Filming. In the editing room.

NANCE ACKERMAN: So that's the really interesting part is, being needed.

TANYA BIGNELL: They'll have like communal kitchen. So they'd be, you know, together as a family making meals, sitting down at a big, huge farm table. And then we'd have like a communal war room type situation where we sit down, we talk about ideas or, you know, movie night where I just see all these bohemian pillows everywhere and a big screen. And, you know, just that sense of belonging, family, community.

LL: Bianca, I'm curious to know if you had had access to something like from the ground up, how do you think your life would have been different?

BIANCA MERCER: Oh, it would have been so different. Just thinking about it from like- It's so poetic to think that criminalised women are helping criminalised women grow and understand what's happened throughout their life. And I don't think anyone could have helped me more than people that understand what I went through. And it would've saved a lot of issues that I've experienced, a lot of abuse; mentally, physically, sexually, emotionally, all kinds of things that I've experienced while being in the drug trafficking stages of my life and using drugs and being severely mentally ill and not having any kind of help with regards to all those things.

TANYA BIGNELL: But you haven't even been properly diagnosed either.

BIANCA MERCER: No, I still haven't.

TANYA BIGNELL: Our doctor shortage is ridiculous, right?

BIANCA MERCER: Yes. There's no access to it.

LL: So, Bianca, everything that you're saying about how you lived your life is all that more amazing to understand the transformation that that you've undergone and you see a part of that in the film. Bianca, how are you doing now?

BIANCA MERCER: I'm about to have a baby. Monday I get induced. I actually I'm going for an inversion because she's like sitting in a hammock sideways. So.

LL: You're having a girl, are you?

BIANCA MERCER: Yes. Yes. Her name is Harmony.

LL: Oh, lovely name.

BIANCA MERCER: Yes. So that'll be happening Monday. And I just I moved into my new place with my boyfriend and his little girl. He's a single father.

LL: You've been taking university classes?

BIANCA MERCER: Yes, I did, actually, a program for university to get see if I can get a scholarship. But it came down to my attendance and stuff like that. And I never got to get the scholarship. But it's still not going to stop me from going to school. I'm definitely going back to school as soon as possible.

LL: What are you studying for?

BIANCA MERCER: I haven't decided if I wanted to do law still or just do a social work program. I know there's a really cool program in Montreal that's social work and a law degree in four years. So I was thinking of maybe doing that someday. But right now I'm just kind of worried and working on myself and having my little family and keeping them healthy and happy and stuff like that.

LL: That's a good focus. Bianca.

BIANCA MERCER: Yes.

LL: Listen, Bianca, thank you so much for sharing your story. And also to you, Tanya, for being so open about things. And Nance, for the film. Thank you as well.

NANCE ACKERMAN: Thank you.

TANYA BIGNELL: Yes, thanks.

BIANCA MERCER: Thanks so much.

LL: Bianca Mercer is a former inmate at the Central Nova Scotia Correctional Facility in Dartmouth. Tanya Bignell is a former guard there. Both are featured in the documentary Conviction. Nance Ackerman is the film's co-director and you can watch it on the Documentary Channel Sunday, December the 1st at 9 p.m.. And some happy news since we recorded that interview. Bianca had her baby and she and Harmony are both doing well.

[Music]

LL: Well, coming up in our next half hour, it is almost the season to gorge on holiday movies. We're talking turkey about the good, the bad and the way to sugary sweet. I'm Laura Lynch and you're listening to The Current.

sister of murdered Maltese journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia; Holiday film we love

Guest: Corinne Vella, Di Golding

LL: I'm Laura Lynch, and you're listening to The Current.

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[Sound: Protests]

LL: Thousands of protesters jeering Malta's prime minister, Joseph Muscat, and pelting him with eggs. Muscat has been facing calls to resign because senior members of his government have been implicated in the 2017 murder of Malta's most famous investigative journalist and word is just reaching us now that he has told associates he will resign imminently.

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NEWSCASTER 1: The burned wreck of Daphne Caruana Galizia car lies in a Maltese field.

NEWSCASTER 2: Some feel her murder is a sign of threats to freedom of speech.

NEWSCASTER 3: The life of Malta's best known blogger and investigative journalist was cut short on Monday. Most assume the car bomb that took her life was connected to the aggressive work she had done, calling out corruption in Malta.

LL: At the centre of all of this, Daphne Caruana Galizia, who was once described as a one woman WikiLeaks. She led the reporting on the Maltese government's involvement in the Panama Papers investigation and her reporting ExCo exposed corruption at the highest levels of that government. She also made a lot of enemies. Corinne Vella is Daphne Caruana Galizia's sister. We reached her earlier this morning in Lija, Malta. Hello.

CORINNE VELLA: Hello.

LL: Can you begin by telling us for our Canadian listeners who your sister was and why her work was so important?

CORINNE VELLA: Well, Daphne was covering Maltese politics. She began as an opinion writer from 30 years ago. In 2008, she started up her own blog as a way of reaching her own audience much faster and sometimes in real time. And it grew and grew and grew. She had let something like 400,000 unique hits on an average day, and that's in the country of 450,000 people. When she was killed, everybody was really, really shocked. So even though she was, you know, sometimes hard hitting other journalists, you really don't expect that kind of thing to happen in a European Union member state in 2017.

LL: No. But not like long before her death, she was reporting on a Panama Papers investigation after that massive leak of documents. Who was implicated in the investigation in Malta?

CORINNE VELLA: She had discovered that the prime minister's chief of staff, Keith Schembri, and his staff minister Konrad Mizzi had set up that companies in Panama, shortly after Muscat was brought to power in March 2013. So she had to immediately link that to corruption. And she had been reporting even before the election on the suspect, the large scale project and involved a partnership with Azrabijan and with companies like Siemens [unintelligible]. And she connected the corruption to that particular project because it's the one that brought them to power. And she later reported on a company called 17 Black, which, you know, has been discovered to belong to a man called Yorgen Fenech, who had uptil recently a respectable reputation as a businessman, but has now directly implicated in her murder. And he has named Keith Schembri as complicit in that murder.

LL: And I want to get into all of that in more detail. But first, there are three suspects awaiting trial for physically carrying out the car bombing that killed your sister. But but now the investigation is looking at those who masterminded, or who allegedly masterminded it. You just talked about Yorgen Fenech, can you tell me a little bit more about him?

CORINNE VELLA: Jorgen Fenech is a businessman. He belongs to a company called Tumas Group, which was set up by his grandfather. So he's, to all intents and purposes, on the face of it, a legitimate businessman. He is also, along with two other families, he's a shareholder and a Maltese company that is itself a shareholder in a power station project brought in by Muscat government. Prior to that, that company being set up here, Muscat, Schembri, Mizzi and the head of communications at the time, Kurt Farrugia, went to Azrabijan to secret meetings with the government in Azrabijan, which very likely to do things with this project. This company called 17 Black , which belongs to Yorgen Fenech, is being used as a slush fund to funnel money towards the Panama companies owned by Schembri and Mizzi. So what we have seen since Daphne's death is a story of the story confirming what she had been reporting on.

LL: Fenech had actually been questioned. Is that right?

CORINNE VELLA: Yes. He has been questioned. He was arrested a few days ago. He was found trying to leave Malta on his luxury yacht. He was apprehended, taken into custody, and everybody expected him to be arraigned. Then suddenly things took a different turn because it seems he started to identify other people, which created an uproar and eventually led to Schembri himself being arrested. Schembri is the prime minister's chief of staff. So that takes us to the heart of government.

LL: Exactly. And then Fenech asks for a pardon or in exchange for his information. And overnight. Yes. Last night there was a lengthy cabinet meeting that ended early this morning and Prime Minister Muscat said that Fenech would not get a presidential pardon. What's your reaction to that news?

CORINNE VELLA: Fenech is named as a prime mover and Daphne's murder, and he seems to have said, I'll tell you about the others if you let me go free. But here's the thing, the person who has to decide on, you know, advising the president on granting a pardon is the prime minister. And we were talking about a situation where he has to decide on whether to grant immunity to a person who can incriminate his own chief of staff and therefore necessarily incriminate him. So it's a completely anomalous situation, Muscat's position has long been untenable. It is now completely intolerable.

LL: So I was going to ask you what all of this means for the prime minister. He said earlier today he's going to stay on the job until the investigation into the murder of your sister is complete and you call his position untenable. What do you want him to do?

CORINNE VELLA: He should have resigned years ago. He should have resigned when his chief of staff and his minister were found to have set up companies in Panama. At that point, he was either in the know, either he knew what they were doing and was therefore complicit with them or they did this behind his back, which means he wasn't competent and that a point, he should have gone. At this point, they should all go, be taken into custody and prosecuted for their crimes.

LL: And in fact, Keith Schembri, who you mentioned earlier, he has since been released. What's your reaction to that?

CORINNE VELLA: He has been released. He was released last night. And the only information that we had about that was a one line police statement published on Facebook saying that he's being released because they didn't find any evidence or reason to retain him. This is a man who has a series of wide ranging, long running criminal activity involving all sorts of financial crime. There are lots of reasons why he should have been retained. That is even before you get to the murder.

LL: How are people in Malta responding to these latest developments?

CORINNE VELLA: People are really, really angry. There's been a protest almost every single day. You started up with a protest, but people opposing the prime minister with eggs. That wasn't the only one. That was the past few days there have been barriers put around the parliament building to make sure people can't get close to it. Last night, we saw an even uglier scene. Journalists waited up into the early hours of the morning for the cabinet meeting to finish to be able to question the prime minister. He called a press conference and then he escaped right afterwards. And to prevent him being mobbed by journalists and their question, people locked the journalists inside a room, inside the prime minister's office. And outside protesters were held back by the police with metal barriers to stop them getting anywhere near the people leaving the cabinet office. So in this ridiculous situation where citizens and journalists were held behind bars while the criminals were walking free. This is completely absurd. Muscat should go. He should have gone long ago.

LL: Oh, how much faith do you have them? You will see justice in your sister's death?

CORINNE VELLA: After the time, earlier this week, I was saying it's been long overdue, but it's an important step. There have been arrests, particularly when Schembri was arrested. So it did look like the investigation was getting somewhere despite what, an obviously political interference. Why did it take two years to get to this point? Quite clearly, there was direct political interference from the highest levels of government. With Schembri's release, I'm not that hopeful as I was earlier this week.

LL: Can you tell us about what you think your sister's legacy is today?

CORINNE VELLA: Everything that's happening in the streets, these people that have taken to the streets. That is part of her legacy. Lots of people have said step up, speak out and not take anything lying down as they used to do before. The tearing down of government, the movements we are seeing today is a direct result of her work. And here is the charge. And you've always maintained that justice for Daphne means justice for her murder, justice for her stories, which means everybody she exposed should face justice. What we're seeing now is a crossover of those two strands, and this is a tragedy of the Panama Papers are being properly investigated by the state authorities, as they should have been. Mizzi and Schembri would have been in jail by now. None of this would have happened. Because impunity is exactly what led to Daphne's death. Criminals were allowed to go free. And she was killed.

LL: We will leave it there. Corinne Vella, thank you so much.

CORINNE VELLA: Thank you, Laura.

LL: Corinne Vella is the sister of investigative journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia, who was murdered in a car bombing in 2017. We reached her earlier today in Lija, Malta. We spoke to her before word came out that the prime minister, Joseph Muscat, reportedly told associates he would resign. We are awaiting confirmation on that.

[Music]

LL: You're listening to The Current on CBC Radio One and Sirius XM. I'm Laura Lynch.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: You know, the butchers and the next [unintelligible].

BOY: [Unintelligible]

MAN: Intelligent boy, remarkable boy. Tell me. They sold the prise turkey that was hanging there, not the little turkey, the big one.

BOY: One as big as me?

MAN: Yes [Laughs] Lucky boy. Yes. Yes. One as big as you.

BOY: It's hanging there still.

MAN: Is it? Very well then, go and buy it.

LL: Nothing says holidays like food and films. Sometimes the two meet like Alastair Sim in that prise bird in a Christmas Carol. There is food in Christmas films. There are Christmas treats that get eaten by watching your holiday favourites. Some movies are as traditional as a 10 kilo turkey. Others are as treacly sweet as a tub of rum raisin ice cream. We thought we draw out that metaphor, and as December approaches, take a culinary tool tour of the season's most beloved and maybe not so loved pictures. To guide us, Di Golding is here. She is a film critic with dearcastandcrew.com. And she's in our Ottawa studio. Hello.

DI GOLDING: Hi, Laura.

LL: Hi, Di. What makes you think holiday movies are a bit like festive food?

DI GOLDING: Well, I've always found food metaphors are helpful in describing film, right? Because people have strong opinions of both. So let's look at it this way. Sometimes you're looking forward to a movie premiere. You know, with the new Star Wars film, the new Avengers film, that's like going out to a fancy dinner. You don't do it all the time. So it's special. And then sometimes there's an important film. You know, you need to watch. Everyone keeps telling you how capital I important it is. You're not sure you'll enjoy it. But, you know, you should try it. And it'll probably be good for you. That's kale. Well, for me. You know. But with holiday and festive films, they are like holiday treats because they're special and you only really get to consume them once a year. You look forward to them for eleven months. And that's why they hold such a special place in your heart. It's like know grandma's gingerbread cookies or home alone. I mean, sure, you can eat them and you can consume them in July, but it's just not the same.

LL: Well, okay. Let let's stay on the theme then. And I guess we'll start with the appetizer.

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BOY: Anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?

GIRL: Sure Charlie Brown I can tell you what Christmas is all about. Basically, in there were the same country shepherd, abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night, and low Angel of the Lord came upon them.

LL: That is the 1965 classic A Charlie Brown Christmas. How is that in your mind, an appetizer?

DI GOLDING: Well, these films, films like the Charlie Brown Christmas Story, it's pure nostalgia, right? I mean, these are films most of us grew up watching on TV and we pass them on to our kids and so on. Films like The Grinch Who Stole Christmas, The Rankin and Bass Films, The Stop Motion Animation, The Frosty the Snowman, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. They're all under an hour. They're easily digestible. You know, they're like an amuse bouche for the soul, if you will. But at the very top of that list for me, anyway, is always a Charlie Brown's Christmas. I mean, the music alone is enough to get you in the festive mood. That Vince Guaraldi Trio. That's my favourite Christmas music.

LL: It sure takes me back just hearing that.

DI GOLDING: Absolutely.

LL: All right, then let's talk. Comfort food.

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VOICE 1: Would you please tell her that you're not really Santa Claus, but there actually is no such person?

VOICE 2: Well, I'm sorry to disagree with you, Mrs. Walker, but not only there is such a person, but here I am to prove it.

VOICE 1: No, no, no. You misunderstand. I want you to tell the truth. What's your name?

VOICE 2: Kris Kringle.

LL: What is it about movies like Miracle on 34th Street that remind you of comfort food?

DI GOLDING: Well, these are the classics, right? You know, Miracle, Holiday Inn, It's a Wonderful Life, The bishop's wife. These are like mom's secret recipe. There's something she puts in there that makes you feel safe. It feels like home. Can be mac and cheese, her homemade stuffing, green bean casserole. It's the stuff that's been passed down for years. You've tried to make it yourself. Just isn't the same. It's kind of like the remakes of these classics. And I think the thing about these post-war Christmas films is that the people who made them and starred in them, I mean, they sacrificed so much. Frank Capra, the director of It's a Wonderful Life, he directed a series of films for the Army. Jemmy Stewart served in the Air Force. You've got Maureen O'Hara, Donna Reed. They all entertain troops and the audience. They made them for sacrifice so much. So when the war was over. You get a real sense from these films that their themes of believing and kindness, the true value of a person isn't money, but who they love and the people who love them, it's the kind of sincerity that that might seem a little hokey now, but it was genuine and it really does resonate to this day.

LL: So you know that there have been attempts to update these movies. What do you think of those? Are they comforting?

DI GOLDING: Well, you know what? Like I said, it's like you can make mashed potatoes with olive oil. Sure. But we all know they taste better with cream and butter. I mean, sorry, vegans, but I mean, let's let's be honest. I mean, the remakes are great. And if it's going to introduce somebody that maybe not be interested in watching the original and then they'll see the remake and then want to go back and watch the original, I'm all for it. I mean, the originals are going anywhere.

LL: All right. I I'm going to try something else here. Here is a genre that is all to itself.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music]

He's talking about bulldozing Snow Valley to the ground and that includes Snow Valley [unintelligible] Christmas. I can't support you tearing down Snow Valley. Christmas is not just about toys and sales. It's about a rebirth in all of us. And a gift of love that binds us altogether.

LL: If there is one place that goes to town on Christmas movies it's Hallmark. That one's called Let It Snow. But there are so many of them. To me, this is like junk food. What's this experience like for you?

DI GOLDING: I was just going to say, I think I have a sugar coma just listening to that clip. Have you watched them? Have you tried?

LL: Yes. Well, there are days when I come back off work here earlier in the day and I'm really tired and I flipped it on and yes, I stayed on the channel for a bit. I'm admitting it.

DI GOLDING: Absolutely. You know, and these films have become a bona fide phenomenon in the last few years. I mean, Lifetime and Hallmark, they kind of cornered the market on this genre. But Netflix has started getting into the game in the last couple of years, and they're enjoyable because they're predictable and ridiculous. Ridicuble? I don't know. We can figure out a portmanteau later.

LL: You do watch them and say, okay, I know what's coming next.

DI GOLDING: You know what? And there's a comfort in that predictability. Right. And they typically involve for some reason there's a young single woman. She lives in the big city and she ends up being left in inn, in New England from some long lost relatives. And it's always two weeks before Christmas. Now her life is turned upside down and she literally runs into a hunky, yet unavailable Christmas tree farmer or something. I mean, it's preposterous. But, you know, these films have become so popular, you can buy shirts that say, all I want for Christmas is wine and Hallmark movies. And for some people, there are a group viewing tradition. You can get together with your friends, can have a few snacks. You can chat a bit. You don't really have to pay attention.

LL: You can play the drinking game when the predictable moment comes.

DI GOLDING: Exactly. Have you heard about these?

LL: Well, I I've heard a little bit about them. Tell me more.

DI GOLDING: It's crazy. And there's also downloadable bingo cards. Right? So, you know, take a drink or dab your blotter when a lead child star from the 90s - Isn't that like the one we just heard? I think that was Candace Cameron-Bure?

LL: Yes.

DI GOLDING: You know, a precocious child tries to bring the two leads together and the two leaders despise each other when they first meet the lead character, or the town, has a Christmasy name. There's always ice skating. You know, the snow is noticeably fake. The leads kiss under the mistletoe. I mean, on and on and on. But look, these movies, and their fans, know exactly what they are. It's the same thing with you going home after working a shift. You want to put something on. You don't have to think too hard about it. It's like eating a whole tray of brownies or a tub of ice cream. There's no substance to it. They aren't good for you. But you know what? They make you feel good. That's why we indulge once a year, right?

LL: Are you ready? Because we're really going to change gears now.

DI GOLDING: Let's do it.

LL: Something very different from Hallmark.

SOUNDCLIP

[Christmas music]

NARRATOR: It's Christmas Eve in L.A..

BOY: Is Dad coming home soon.

MOM: Now we'll see what Santa and Mommy can do, okay?

NARRATOR: A New York cop, John McClane, is going to see his wife. Instead, he's going to have to save her.

LL: Die hard with Bruce Willis. That's not your standard Christmas fare, but is it still a Christmas movie?

DI GOLDING: Well, yes, I would call, you know, a film like that, a non-traditional or left of centre Christmas film. And usually it becomes part of a repertoire because someone introduces you to it. So let's think of it like that weird dip your aunt's boyfriend brought to Christmas one year. You're sceptical at first, but then you end up enjoying it because it's different from what you're used to. And then all of a sudden it becomes a new tradition, right?

LL: Yes, I guess so.

DI GOLDING: You know, you can put a movie like Elf with Will Ferrell. You know, it's a family favourite that we didn't know we needed. Will Ferrell is a completely guileless, childlike elf. I mean, Bob Newhart plays his adopted dad. I mean, none of this should work on paper. You've got James Caan, who's this old school movie, Tough Guy, as his polar opposite - pun was not intended there. And the catchphrase that you can say all year, you sit on a throne of lies. I mean, what's not to love? Then you got Bad Santa. It's this R rated dark comedy where Billy Bob Thornton plays this gin soaked mall Santa slash thief. So I think this is, that naughty little sip of rum and eggnog your older cousin gave you when you were way too young. Sometimes that happens. You know, an older brother leaves something out and you have a sip of it. That's what Bad Santa is. And Die Hard to me is like the Christmas pudding my mother in law douses in brandy and then sets on fire. Shouldn't work. Somehow it does. There's actually fire. It's exciting.

LL: I got to get this last one because this movie is one that I personally quite liked because it reminds me of when I actually moved to London. Here we go.

SOUNDCLIP

Whenever I get gloomy with the state of the world, I think about the arrivals gate at Heathrow Airport. General opinion started to make out that we live in a world of hatred and greed. But I don't see that. Seems to me that love is everywhere. Often it's not particularly dignified or newsworthy, but it's always there. Fathers and sons. Mothers and daughters. Husbands and wives. Boyfriends. Girlfriends. Old friends. When the planes hit the Twin Towers, as far as I know, none of the phone calls from the people on board were messages of hate or revenge. They were all messages of love. If you look for it, I've got a sneaky feeling you'll find that love actually is all around.

LL: So where did love actually fit in the menu?

DI GOLDING: I don't know. Maybe. Are we going to call it the Brussels Sprouts of Christmas movies? I mean, people either love it or they hate it. And you're on you're on team brussel sprouts, right?

LL: Well, I don't like Brussels sprouts, but I like the movie.

DI GOLDING: Whatever that one dividing meal or dish at dinner that people either rave about or can't stand. So I'm not on Team Love Actually, and I don't like brussel sprouts either. So maybe that's it. I have tried them more than once. I have tried watching love actually more than once. And don't tell me I can put bacon on it because bacon can't solve everything. You know, last year there was a rather spirited and fun back and forth between a couple of writers, one who hates Love Actually, one who loves it. I think the reasons we hate or love this film are actually the same. So why do you love it?

LL: Because it reminds me of moving to London, honestly. We're quickly running out of time. So I want to ask you what your favourite holiday movie is.

DI GOLDING: I love a Christmas story. I love the kid that wants the B.B. Gun. That's my absolute number one top. But I also love watching the Alistair Sim Christmas Carol late at night. It's almost like watching a horror movie, but it has a really happy end.

LL: That one that one goes way back into my childhood, too. Di, thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun.

DI GOLDING: My pleasure. Have a great day.

LL: Di Golding is a film critic with dearcastandcrew.com and a member of the Critics Choice Association. She was in our Ottawa studio. That is our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q on CBC. And after all that talk about holiday movies, we're actually going to leave you with the taste of that real classic. This is from the original 1951 film A Christmas Carol starring Alistair Sim as Ebony's or Scrooge. Used to scare me when I was a kid. But a warning this might leave you just a little bit teary. I'm Laura Lynch. Thanks for listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Cratchit, you're late.

VOICE 2: Sir.

VOICE 1: What do you mean by coming in here this time of day? Hmm.

VOICE 2: I'm very sorry, sir. I am behind my times.

VOICE 1: You are indeed. Step this way, Mr. Cratchit, please.

VOICE 2: It's only once a year, sir. It won't be repeated. I was making rather merely yesterday, sir.

VOICE 1: Hmm hm. I'm sure you will. Well, we would beat about the bush friend. I'm not going to stand this sort of thing any longer. Which leaves me no alternative but to raise your salary. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm [Laughs]. I haven't taken leave of my senses, Bob. I've come into them. From now on, I want to try to help you to raise that family of yours, if you'll let me. Well, we'll talk it over later, Bob, over a bowl of hot punch. Meanwhile, you just go and put some oil coal on that fire and you go straight out and buy a new coal scuttle and you would do that before you adopt another eye, Bob Cratchit [laughs]. I don't deserve to be so happy. I can't help it. I just can't help it.

VOICE 3: Scrooge was better than his word. He became as good a friend, as good a master, and as good a man as the good old city he ever knew, or any other good old city, town or borough in the good old world. And to Tiny Tim, who lived and got well again, he became a second father.

CHILD: Uncle Scrooge.

VOICE 3: And it was always said that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge. May that it be truly said of us and all of us. And so as Tiny Tim observed, God bless us, everyone.

[Music]

The Current Transcript for November 29, 2019

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