Rural Canadians still struggle with poor internet despite promises to fix it

Guests: Barb Carra, Lindsay Bird

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Really, we just want to get back to normal. We want our cities back. We want our country back. We want to be able to give our friends, our family, our grandparents hugs again. And the point here is to protect to everyone.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Just a few months ago, they were national heroes. Some even said that Canadian governments should be paying them. They were the vaccine hunters everyday Canadians who ran the social media pages that connected so many of us to vaccine appointments. Well, now those pages are stopping their updates. I'll talk to one of the founders about the impact they had and why it's come to an end. That's in 45 minutes. Also this morning,

SOUNDCLIP

It beats putting them in the old age home as far as I'm concerned. And if we can do that, it maybe takes a village also to to keep an elder, not just to raise a child.

AG: The pandemic has made most countries take a closer look at how elders are treated. But you don't have to look too far to find examples of people doing things differently. We'll revisit The Current documentary, Adopt an Elder, and that takes you into the world of three women who have found their own solution. We'll also bring you the penultimate episode of the hit CBC podcast Recall: How to Start a Revolution. That story is getting to the heart of the controversial climax of the October crisis, the War Measures Act. But we begin this morning here in Newfoundland and the not so simple act of connecting to the Internet. I'm Anthony Germain in St. Johns, sitting in for Matt Galloway. And this is The Current.

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AG: We have some countries have too much history, we have too much geography, and that apt observation came from this country's 10th prime minister, William Lyon. Mackenzie King, of course, that was in 1936. And King had never heard the term broadband, but his sentiment still stands in this, the age of the Internet. Even today, there are thousands of Canadians spread out across our vast geography who struggle to connect with the rest of the country and the rest of the world. When they open their laptops, they're more likely to see that cursed buffering symbol rather than a search engine. And that leaves them locked out of things as basic as work and education these days. So we're going to examine the impact of having lousy connectivity in parts of the country, beginning with CBC journalist Lindsay Bird in Cranebrook, Newfoundland. Good morning, Lindsay.

LINDSAY BIRD: Good morning, Anthony.

AG: Now, you've been talking to people in some remote areas of this province, but I want to start with this. What's the Internet like where you are in Hornibrook?

AG: Well, exactly where I'm sitting. It's pretty great, Anthony. I mean, I'm in the middle of town and we have lightning fast speeds here, but I can look out the window of our station and see just across the bay to where speeds drop in some places pretty dramatically to where a zoom call is probably impractical. And that's often the case in Rigolets, a community in Tennessee. It the Inuit territory on Labrador's north coast. Eldard Alan lives and works there and he runs a drone company called Burnside Inc.

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[Ring tone]

ELDRAD: Hello.

LINDSAY BIRD: Hello, Eldrad.

ELDRAD: Hi.

LINDSAY BIRD: How would you describe your Internet speeds?

ELDRAD: are barely functional?

AG: That's Eldard, Alan and Anthony, when he says barely functional, he means it for us to have that FaceTime audio call, the Internet stars had to align. You know, it was early in the morning, meaning fewer people in Rigolets were on the Internet and Allen made sure his own kids were out of the house and off his bandwidth. And that worked for our face time. But that doesn't work for his business with birds. I think he's gathering drone footage and scientific services for clients all over the world. You know, he's dealing with four key videos and large files daily that his Internet just can't handle.

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ELDRAD: Most of the time, what I have to do is put everything on the USB drive and send it in the mail because the Internet is too slow. I've got a couple of gigabytes of drone footage and stuff like that and would be impossible for me to upload it and share it online. And just for myself, like I've got a lot of, you know, our gear is high tech and, you know, my drones, my camera gear and stuff like that. And, you know, there are always updates and things like that coming from the manufacturers that keep them up to date performing property. And most of the times, I can't download the updates to install them because some of the updates might be a gigabyte in size. So then I'm operating most of my gear on older firmware and stuff like that.

LINDSAY BIRD: And Anthony, if you're looking to Google birds eye ink, Alan doesn't have a website for those exact same reasons. You know, his Internet is just too slow to create and maintain.

AG: One, a drone guy with a website? Seems impossible. Now, I'm sort of listening to you, Lindsey. I'm thinking back to my time in Ottawa. Brian Tobin, minister of industry, would become premier here. He was promising billions to fix this, you know, 20 years ago. I mean, haven't government spent a fortune on making this thing actually work?

LINDSAY BIRD: Yeah, there have definitely been promises dating back to when the time when modems were king in order to improve Internet speeds in Canada. But in the last five years, there has been a ton of federal and provincial cash and a slew of programmes poured into this area. The federal cash totals into the six billion dollar range, according to the 2021 budget. But to get a little bit deeper into Internet speeds, I have to throw a few numbers and tech jargon at you. And the listener is so. So stay with me here, ok?

AG: OK, I'll try.

LINDSAY BIRD: So the big goal now is to get all Canadians to a baseline broadband speed. We call fifty ten. That's 50 megabits per second download speed and 10 megabits per second upload speed. Basically those are speeds where you can stream easily, use cloud based services, all that stuff. And it's actually already a reality for the majority of Canadians. The CRTC says 87 percent of Canadian homes have at least that fifty ten speed, but the number falls off a cliff. When you look at rural communities, between 40 to 45 percent of rural Canadian homes have access to those Internet speeds. And there's also CRTC data that suggests the number drops even further for indigenous communities like Aldard Allans, where only a quarter of those homes have fifty ten speed. I wouldn't actually ran a few speed tests before our interview just to check how fast his Internet was working. His download speeds were two point one megabits per second downloading and zero point four megabits for uploads. Yeah, and to compare, I mean, I ran that test to here in Hornibrook. My speeds were 102. So what's striking about Alan's slow single digits here is his speed, Anthony, is actually coming after federal and Alliant investments into Rigolets Internet. You know, that happened a few years ago to bring it up to a five megabits per second download speed. But Allen and others say, you know, they only saw a bump in Internet speed for a little while after that upgrade work. You know, soon a bunch of new customers in the area had signed up with Bell to get this speedy Internet and everything slowed back down to a crawl. And in a statement, Bell didn't address Rigolets problems specifically, but the company did say it invests more than any other communications company into Newfoundland and Labrador and says it will continue to do so.

AG: OK, now, Lindsey, it's not just Rigolets, Labrador here with this problem. We see this in many parts of rural Canada and there are also issues of cell phones, right?

AG: Yeah, absolutely. The CRTC says 99 percent of Canadians have some access to mobile services. Mphasis, Anthony here on the some that services isn't always, you know, where you need it and when you need it. Catherine Fenwick and others in mainland on western Newfoundland's Port A Port support a port peninsula. They've had some close calls in their communities' deadzone.

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Fishermen, they would be out on the water and they would have a problem with their motor. There was no way for them to reach anyone, to let them know there was a problem. So they'd have to wait until somebody kind of, you know, came by with with another boat. I myself got stuck on the mountain one year and the weather was bad, but I felt like I really had to get to work. And I ended up on top of a snowbank, completely stuck with little visibility and no way to call anyone.

LINDSAY BIRD: That's Catherine Fenwick. She runs the Francophone organisation Arko based in Mainland, and that community banded together with its neighbour three Rakove to do something pretty unheard of. Raise the money to build a cell phone tower so they could then have service and of course, the luxury of paying cell phone bills.

AG: OK, now it's almost a pastime for Canadians to gripe about the cost of cell phone bills. So certainly some initiative there. But what goes into paying for an entire cell phone tower?

LINDSAY BIRD: Yeah, according to Fenwick, it was a lot of time and effort. I mean, these two communities total about 500 people. And they'd been told by Bell Alliant there was no business case for the company to simply build a tower out of its own pocket for such a small population. But Bell would chip in along with federal funding and a provincial programme, if the communities could cover 15 percent of the towers construction costs. That worked out to about 80000 dollars. So in 2019 mainland and three Rakove, they went on a fundraising spree. You know, there were benefit concerts, charity gas pumping a go fund me and more, and they met their target and Bill Alliant erected the tower and it sent out its first signals on December 7th, 2012.

AG: So how did that work out for them once they got the signals going?

LINDSAY BIRD: Well, even after all that effort, Fenwicks says reception. It's been a rocky road. Her organisation, they handled the final back and forth with Bell Alliant to get that tower up and running. And once it was working, Fenwick herself had to sort out a ton of technical problems the communities hadn't anticipated. You know, she says many people cell phones or their plans wouldn't work with the newer technology Bells Tower use. And she ended up playing Middleman to work out the kinks.

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VOICE 1: I'd say from December all the way till of mid January, early February. It was very frustrating. I had a lady come in with her phone and I had her phone for a month, constantly calling, getting tickets from Bell and then saying, don't call us, we'll call you. She was frustrated. I was frustrated. And it took a lot of trial and error to figure out how to get connected to that particular tower.

LINDSAY BIRD: It sounds like you were a little bit of a a bell technician as well as running an organisation.

VOICE 1: And I'm not a techie at all. It was you know, we took that on as a responsibility, so we didn't want to leave people hanging. Right.

LINDSAY BIRD: And Anthony, we did ask Bell about those issues and they, again, didn't comment specifically on what these communities went through.

AG: OK, so Lindsay, after those bumps to the tower, solve the area's connectivity problems?

LINDSAY BIRD: Not quite. I mean, that cell service isn't perfect. Fenwick and I ended up talking on a landline because her cell phone reception just wasn't clear enough to record an interview. And elsewhere, it's worse. Jeffrey Young grew up near mainland and Cheves Cove, where Internet speeds are actually slower than those single digit ones we talked about in ringlet. Now, he's not yet 30 and he's pushing for better Internet service for the area, you know, as a hope for the peninsula's future. Like a lot of rural Newfoundland and Labrador, the port report port has this huge demographic problem. Young people are moving away, leaving mostly seniors behind. And Young says high speed Internet is key to trying to at least stem that bleeding. And he himself is an example. You know, his job lets him work from home, but his home is no longer in Cheves Cove. It's about 40 minutes away in a larger centre with, as you probably guessed it, better service.

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I can literally work anywhere in the world as long as I have high speed Internet, as soon I don't have high speed Internet, I can't work. So with these online opportunities, people can go back home to live and work. Maybe more people, you know, decide to live in rural Newfoundland and there's more tourists will probably visit these places to, you know, a lot of times on the road. They want to check their email. They want to check in with family and stuff. If there's no high speed Internet in the communities or they'll into the cafes or restaurants, that's there to be and BS, they can't connect and they're probably not choosing A, B and B that don't have high speed Internet over A, B and B to do or going to a restaurant. You know, it could help the economy as well.

LINDSAY BIRD: And Young is also a director at the Francophone Organisation, Our Day, and he says he and staff there are in talks with the telecom company EastLink to bring better Internet to Port A Port. And that work involves the federal government, which Young says is stalled by the federal election. You know, it's been really hard to get answers on progress, which is pretty interesting because the Liberals, NDP and Conservatives have all made election promises in their platforms to speed up rural broadband improvements. But Young says he'll keep pushing. You know, this service is just so vital to the survival of rural communities, whether it's to try to retain young people in growing towns and the port to it or to provide jobs. Eldard Allen said dealing with slow Internet is the biggest concern for his drone business in the Nazia, but a territory that struggles with an unemployment rate that surround 33 percent. Now, everyone I spoke to said connectivity is such a struggle but one worth pushing to improve. So I'll give the last word here to Catherine Fenwick in Mainland.

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VOICE 1: If you're living in a place where you have access to cell service and good cell service, you're lucky because there are still a lot of communities out there who don't have it. But it's. Worth fighting for. And if I had to do it again, I would without without even thinking about it.

AG: Well, certainly if you're a townie or an urban person, you kind of take connectivity now for granted. Lindsay, thank you very much.

LINDSAY BIRD: Thanks, Anthony.

AG: That's the CBC's Lindsay Bird in Corner Brook in Newfoundland on the island. Now, of course, this is not just a problem in Newfoundland and Labrador in all corners of Canada, there are people who struggle to connect and fixing it is not always as simple as promising federal funding. Joining me now to explain this problem is Barb Carra. She's the CEO and president of Sabira, an Alberta not for profit organisation responsible for driving economic growth through the use of digital technology. And she works directly on this issue of rural Internet access. Good morning.

BARB CARRA: Good morning, Anthony. Thank you for having me.

AG: Good to meet you. Can you paint a picture for us outside the province of Newfoundland, Labrador? How significant is this issue of Internet access across the country, this giant country of ours?

BARB CARRA: Well, I think Lindsay answered it really, really well, and in fact, those stories paint a perfect picture because those exact struggles are the struggles we're seeing across rural and remote Canada all over the place. So we know this has been a major issue for decades and it's only been further emphasised by the pandemic that the importance and priority needs to be placed on solving those connectivity challenges, because it's a real reality for many people, many of us with connectivity or good connectivity and participating in, you know, daily digital lives. We don't think of it as a finite resource and we don't often consider the limitations of Canada's network infrastructure. But it really is a pressing problem we need to solve immediately.

AG: Honestly, I think if you're in Calgary or here in St. John's, Montreal or Vancouver, Toronto and countless other cities, you kind of take it for granted. On a basic level, why is it so hard to get good bandwidth outside of the urban centres?

BARB CARRA: Well, I think you mentioned it as well. Not only is it Canada's geography, but it's also the distribution and density of Canada's population. And lastly, I would add to that that financial incentive to build the cost of upgrading or building infrastructure into rural and remote Canada and towns with small populations. The profits and profit margins are often too low to incentivise this as a priority for our primary telcos across the country. And so, honestly, it really creates a barrier for that type of participation development to happen unless government participates and incentivising the opportunity, unless communities come to the table like we just heard, that help grow the build the opportunities from the ground up and make their voices heard that there are limitations in their environment.

AG: Well, I think people in Canadian history, if you think about the railroad or even, you know, getting electrification moving through the provinces, are you suggesting that governments need to take that kind of initiative because the market can't do it on its own?

BARB CARRA: Well, we've been waiting for the market to do what's on it on its own for a long time, and we're still not getting the problem solved. And so I do think there is an active role for both community and government to play to help solve the problem. We've been building cooperative electricity, cooperative gas co-ops for, you know, 100 years in Canada, and many of those organisations still exist today. So I'm not saying that tackling connectivity as a utility is the only solution, but for some areas, it might be a solution to look to to think about how to build a community co-op around connecting home than we've seen some of those initiatives stand up across Canada. The other thing is to do better coordination at all levels of government, including all the way from federal to provincial, down to municipal, and including even the smallest towns, making an effort to band together to find ways to access those federal funding opportunities to bring that investment into their communities.

AG: And when it comes to innovation, you know, you consider things like satellite Internet from companies like Elon Musk, Starlink. I mean, how much of a difference could low orbiting satellites and, you know, initiatives from entrepreneurs making all this?

BARB CARRA: Actually, I think quite a bit. And we're starting to see the impact of that happening now as those satellites track more and more into Pawlak polar orbit. And tell us that eventually coming online, I believe, closer to 2024. And I think solving this problem will be a mix of wired connectivity, wireless connectivity and low and low Earth orbit satellites, creating lots of solutions that people have actual choice. And that's part of the problem is right. If we only put our eggs in one basket and we think every possible connectivity problem can only be solved by building fibre to the home and putting fibre in the ground, then we're not innovating in the telco space and we're not innovating the network infrastructure. We need to think bigger than just those traditional methods of delivering connectivity, and that is an opportunity for Canada lead and innovation. When you think about how you approach connectivity from a technology perspective and really what we want to do is also support innovation in rural and remote Canada. Innovation is often driven by data these days, and data needs that connectivity for those companies to actually play a significant role in things like egg tech, clean tech, Real-Time, environmental monitoring and all the things that were previously mentioned about drone footage. The fact that people have to put data onto USD and so ship it in the mail is a pretty good indicator. We're not quite there yet.

AG: I think there's recognition that, you know, without without access to, you know, good Internet, you know, things like long distance education, telemedicine, basic shopping that people in cities take for granted that there is a cost for people in rural Canada. They're missing out politically. You've got the liberals promising high speed Internet for all Canadians by 2030. The NDP and the Conservatives just yesterday, Erin O'Toole saying he's going to connect all of us by by 2025. How realistic are those goals and their timelines, in your estimation?

BARB CARRA: So I think the goals and timelines are a little bit aspirational, I think based on what we've seen happen so far in terms of things actually getting into the ground, that's probably going to take a little bit longer than that. But there's still important goals to have. And in fact, we should be aspirational because it's a problem we need to solve today. So I think, you know, it's not unrealistic, though, and it is possible. It just takes a lot of work. And often what we see with these promises is that the actual you know, and regardless of party and platform, this is a fundamental problem that we all need to solve together. And what we see is that we make programmes available. But to actually get to the point where we're solving the connectivity challenge for the user, at the end of the day, it actually takes quite a long time to happen. Right. And often some of those community models tend to get off the ground faster than going through the entire chain of the current system, where you apply for funding and wait for the delivery of the funds. And often communities even make those happen. Have to identify telco partner who is willing to come to the table and support that initiative. And that's a really long process to get off the ground.

AG: So it's almost as if erecting the towers and infrastructure is like the barn raisings of the past in rural Canada.

BARB CARRA: It really seems to be that way. You know, there is a lot of infrastructure already in Canada that's in the ground pipelines, you know, electrical grids. Those are things that can be leveraged. If you think about delivering connectivity from a more strategic perspective, know look at the fact that we already have infrastructure that could be leveraged in getting some of those, you know, connexions and wires out there and put in place and actually link that effort to industrial planning strategies. And we've seen countries do this. Other countries do this for decades. Right. And it allows them to take technology advancement, including 5G deployment to a whole new level and much faster.

AG: I have to wind this down. I really appreciate your insights. Thank you very much.

BARB CARRA: Yeah, happy to participate. Something I'm very passionate about.

AG: That's Barb Carra, she is the CEO of Sabira and Alberta, not for profit organisation responsible for driving economic growth through the use of digital technology. The CBC News is next. And then.

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If you're going to say, well, I'm not going to live with an older person because all the things that could go wrong, don't think about it that way. You know, be a little more than.

AG: Three women, one of them in their 80s, one house and one beautiful rural location. It's a compelling alternative to an assisted living facility. We're going to revisit a story about different ways to take care of our elderly. I'm Anthony Germain and you're listening to The Current.

Why ‘adopting an elder’ was life-changing for these Canadians; Vaccine Hunters founder says they’ll be back — if needed. Vaccine Hunters is winding down. But they'll be back if you need them, says founder

Guests: Marike Finlay, Elizabeth Bigras, Karen Cope, Andrew Young

AG: Hello, I'm Anthony Germain, and you're listening to The Current.

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AG: Still to come, you might have used social media to track down an appointment for one or maybe both of your covid vaccine shots. If so, you may well have used vaccine hunters Canada. They helped thousands upon thousands of us, but now their project is coming to an end. I'll be speaking with the group's founder. But first, how to adopt an elder.

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AG: In the early months of this pandemic, families across this country watched helplessly as their loved ones in long term and senior care homes were trapped. Seniors were in dangerous and deadly living conditions as outbreaks spread. And if the warnings weren't taken seriously before, we all know now that our system was grossly ill prepared. We've heard many stories from those living in long term care homes and their relatives, as well as professional caregivers, as well as many of you who wrote into The Current with your own stories. And this next story that you're about to hear was inspired by this email.

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We've covered not only long term care homes, but also how to stay out of them. We adopted an elder who is now 86 and does yes, it is work, but also so much richness and sharing our lives with this woman. We kept an elder out of long term care. We adopted her.

AG: Now, that's from Marika Finley in Nova Scotia. When she and her partner, Karen Cope decided to leave their professors jobs at McGill University and start over in the Maritimes, they took a big chance and they invited their retired friend Elizabeth to join them. Now, that was nearly 20 years ago. And as Marika mentioned, Elizabeth is now in her 80s. And Elizabeth is Elizabeth Biggera, Quebec's first woman psychiatrist. Now, we were intrigued when we received that letter. What does it mean to adopt an elder? So we paid them a visit just before the lockdown this past spring, two hours down the eastern shore from Halifax.

MARIKE FINLAY: So Elizabeth and I were friends and colleagues. I met Elizabeth through her husband, who was a professor of mine while I was doing a retraining in psychiatry at McGill University. Then when Julia, her husband, died, we became better friends and we sailed together and but I had been divorced and I met Karen at McGill. But then Karen and I decided we wanted to live by the sea and start a new profession. So we moved here to West Quoddy on the Eastern Shore. We sailed here first before we drove to Nova Scotia. So we discovered it from the sea. We thought, well, would we want Elizabeth to retire here? So we asked Elizabeth to think about it. And Karen and I thought about it very seriously. And we knew that if we were inviting Elizabeth to come and retire here with us, that meant that we were committing to be with her throughout her old age.

ELIZABETH: I was with them on the boat when we discovered Nova Scotia, and I have always been a person who loves the wilderness, I just am so happy in the wilderness. And of course, being deaf, wilderness is for me a second world where I am really at ease. I'm so happy because I don't have to speak to make to understand people and to listen to them. And so when the decision came that I was retiring and they told me, why don't you come here for me, it was wonderful. It was exactly what I would wish to see. I came here and I never have regretted, never having regretted to come here.

MARIKE FINLAY: We had to work out the finances. And Elizabeth at the time had more money than we did because we'd made big career changes. That was a consideration. And we decided to go 50/50 at the time. That's changed since now we have more money than she does. So it's two thirds, one third. So already we knew we had to compensate for her hearing, but we knew it could get worse and indeed has she's functionally deaf but now has a cochlear implant. So that was going to require some adaptation. Elizabeth drove at the time. So she still had car and her licence then, of course. Well, what would we do if she needed greater physical help? And we thought, well, a road we'll cross when we get to it, but we would we didn't want to be the primary physical caregivers because we wanted to save the friendship relationship. And so if she has greater physical needs, we think we'll just ask for help, will reconfigure the House and ask for help. And then Elizabeth has her own bathroom and this is [unintelligible] in my room and we have our own bathroom. And then upstairs we have our studies. And that's - you don't want to climb up that ladder, though. And but like originally we'd made that study for when Elizabeth came and then what was happening was Elizabeth having to walk through our room. And Karen and I were fighting was, oh, the problem is space. So we just reorganised the space so that these are our quarters when we want to be alone. Elizabeth has her quarters to be alone.

ELIZABETH: Care the Beeton's

MARIKE FINLAY: here. I'll get you a colander, OK? You want to sit down to do it?

ELIZABETH: No.

MARIKE FINLAY: No. OK, well,

ELIZABETH: I usually am the one who cleans the beans, but I think I think I cook less and less. I think they are cooking more and more, which is very lovely. I have like, special recipes that they they asked me to do like a quiche this type of omelette or for the birthdays, of course, the [French speech]. I know that in here we are in the middle of nowhere. But when I did lose my weight, when I did have this accident and then I had to give away my licence because I realised that I was a danger, you know, falling asleep when you're driving, you're a danger to yourself and to everybody else. So I gave away and that was very hard. I realised I was depressed for nearly a year. I lost one most important part of my life being libr, being free, being able to decide what I wanted to do when I wanted to do that was finished. Old age is a lot about loss. I have been losing, first, friends because they died, beloved ones because they died. And then I lost my hearing. I lost music. And that was a terrible thing. I am very grateful to Karen and Marike because they look after me. Sometimes, sometimes we do fight and sometimes I do fight because I think they look too much after me and they want me to do things that are good for my health and things that, etc., etc. And I just I just want to-- I just get mad. You get more and more dependent, you also get psychically more and more dependent, needing more attention, needing more love, needing more people to to tell you that they love you to, you know, things like that. I was probably always a little bit like that. But now I am permitting myself to to show it more. I am making up for it by finding other things, like, for instance, I have a hobby and that's photography. If you can work to find inside yourself what fascinates you, what you what you can have a passion for, it helps a lot.

KAREN COPE: We've had very funny moments, you know, because she likes, Elizabeth likes, to take these close up photographs and and she is not shy. She will lie down on the ground and take these close up photographs and will go on a walk, will go on a hike somewhere, and she'll come along. And we know she's just going to walk the beginning part of the trail. And we come back along and we see her lying on the ground and we're completely freaked out. Oh, my God, what's happened to her? She's dying. She's dead. She's tripped. She's broken a limb. She has broken a few limbs. But then we realise she's just lying on the ground taking a photograph and that we should calm down.

ELIZABETH: At first, I could have felt that I was a little envious of a couple of being in love and that I it was finished for me that moment. I mean, but love has an evolution when you grow old. And I,now think that I can't love people like I used to love them. I love them in a very different manner. But so there's no real problem. But for me, being with Karen and Marika, I think the major problem is those little, not a major problem, but one of the problems is those little clashes that we have. Like, for instance, you I've taken my iPad and I'm looking at my iPad and Marike comes in, you should not be on your iPad all day long, which is true. I agree with her, but I've just taken the top five minutes ago. And so I just want to say, hey, man, I do what I want with my time. You are not the one to, you know, feeling a little bit like they are treating me like a five year old.

KAREN COPE: The the people around us here, everyone everyone comes to to what the nature of this relationship is and to an understanding very quickly that we are a family. The people who have the biggest trouble with it, I think, are some of our blood relatives. My own parents regard this as a somewhat strange arrangement. And I think members of Marika's family aren't all down with it either. They like, that's temporary. I remember many years after I started living with Elizabeth, my father said to me something like, oh, that Elizabeth, as you call her. Oh. And I think there was maybe some distinct jealousy in there. And for sure, I feel like inside of myself, I have drawn a line and Elizabeth is the elder that I accept the responsibility of care for in a profound way, in a way that I cannot, and actually do not, for my own parents. One, because we live in different countries, but two, because they are homophobic. So Elizabeth is the elder to whom I turn for a lot of the wisdom that I need. Often helping me to think about what's going on with my students, for example. And she is also the elder to whom I look for models about how to age. This is the elder that I that I love. Who is who is first in my heart, who I. I will I will commit myself to seeing to the end of her days.

MARIKE FINLAY: So the moral of that story is if you can't adopt your own parents, just adopt another elder that you get along with and maybe somebody will adopt your parents for you.

ELIZABETH: All my life, I haven't had any children of my own. And at one time, I really would have wanted to have but OK, so. I realise that all the people younger than me, whom I have loved, whom I have admired, whom I like to be with them, etc., I had sort of an imagination like they could be my children. So, you know, when I met Marike and of course, she's 20 years younger than me, a little by little I said, oh, oh, she's an extraordinary person. She's difficult sometimes, but she's nice. I really would like to, I would have wanted to have a daughter like her. Probably it would be terrible. But I really would like to have and it's got the same thing with Karen after that. Karen, little by little I said, oh, what a person. Oh, if I had had a daughter like her, it would have been wonderful.

KAREN COPE: Very good, very good. I was going to ask you if you wanted some nuts, so nuts. This is nuts.

MARIKE FINLAY: And you're going to chop the garlic.

ELIZABETH: I now don't want to stay alone. Now, I agree that we have to organise I have to organise myself of trying not to be alone. And I do. That's what I do want. So we have--

MARIKE FINLAY: What you should say is that you tell us when you do stay alone, you get to be as slow as you want to.

ELIZABETH: That's true. When I'm alone, you know, it's vacation.

MARIKE FINLAY: I think if Elizabeth weren't with us now, she would have to be in assisted living. She can't drive, you know, she can't hear quite things. But, you know, if that's, you know, if we could do it differently in this country, at least for a big percentage of our population, our ageing population, or even a small percentage, it beats putting them in the old age home as far as I'm concerned. And if we can do that, it it maybe takes a village also to to keep an elder, not just to raise a child. You know, we've thought about what makes our relationship possible and what would make it easier. Our lawyer gets it. We have wills made up. We have power of attorneys. He says you actually should be able to declare yourself a household where the Department of Finance recognises things like pension sharing or things like inheritance without tax between you all. So there are those kinds of changes that could take care. Our financial adviser GetSet. We are considered as one family of one account with all of the discounts that that implies for things like commissions and so on. So they get it. But I would say I'd love to sit down and have a conversation with the minister of finance, both of the province and of the federal government, because there are ways I mean, the first thing is that Elizabeth is taxed up the bejeezus right now on her withdrawal of her riff and so on. And there'd be no way we could do a pension sharing arrangement. And yet, you know, our finances are totally shared everything. So, you know, or when she dies, we will not be able to inherit. And I'm not saying that we need to, but what I'm saying is it sure might be an incentive for a lot of other families to entertain this possibility. And why can't the government make those kinds of incentives rather than spending? I think it costs thousands of dollars to keep somebody in an old age home, whereas it would be hundreds of dollars of incentives to try to say, let's try and keep the elderly in households, in families. Elizabeth and I are both psychoanalysts and will often say to each other that the greatest mental illness in our society today is loneliness. And so, you know, I think that's one of the reasons that we said, well, we're going to give this a try with Elizabeth boy, during covid we're so glad for each other. We are so glad and we feel, you know, so badly for people that would be all alone in an apartment in Toronto, whereas we've got the three of us and the dog. And for months we didn't see anyone else to keep Elizabeth safe. And here we are in the middle of nowhere. But we have each other and we are so grateful for that. Of course, we thought, what if she has a stroke and she did have a tiny stroke and it freaked us out, but we dealt with it. But, you know, if you're going to say, well, I'm not going to live with an older person because all the things that could go wrong, don't think about it that way. You know, be a little more zen. If you think about all the 10 things that go wrong and nine of them don't go wrong, you've just worried yourself sick for nothing. And frankly, we don't know how these things are going to unfold. And sometimes you just have to go with your heart. So once again, if you know older or if you're an older and you know a younger, give it a try. Give it a try is just what we'd like to say to Canadians. Give it a try.

AG: Marike Finlay, Karin Cope, and Elisabeth Bigras live together in Nova Scotia. This story first ran in April. I'm Anthony Germain and this is The Current. So get this some actual kindness on Twitter, some quotes for you. Thank you. To these incredibly selfless individuals who helped me and so many people I love get vaccinated. And this one, we are incredibly thankful for your leadership, passion and ability to see and think creatively to get the job done. Well, those are just two of many effusive tweets from this week, all of them directed at a group of ordinary Canadians who called themselves vaccine hunters. They might even have helped you or someone, you know, make an appointment for your covid shot. Now, especially in the early days of the vaccine rollout, navigating different clinics, age and postal code restrictions was confusing, to say the least. Well, the vaccine hunters, they cut through that confusion by posting regularly on social media. But where you could go and who was eligible and everything you needed to know? Well, this Tuesday was the last day the group shared updates on their social channels. And joining me now is the founder and director of Vaccine Hunters Canada, Andrew Young. Hello.

ANDREW YOUNG: Hi, Anthony.

AG: Andrew, when you look back at what vaccine hunters had achieved over the past five months, what do you think was the biggest accomplishment?

ANDREW YOUNG: So I founded Vaccine Hunters Canada back on March 19th. And to me, the biggest accomplishment is bringing together a group of strangers across Canada with the single purpose of helping Canadians get vaccinated. And although we had our own lives, families, jobs, we worked together every day over the past five months to protect our neighbours coast to coast to coast. And along the way, we didn't just find vaccines, we found each other and our our. Sorry, that's OK. Along the way, we didn't just find vaccines, we found each other and ourselves.

AG: Right. Now, listen, Canada has reached 73 per cent of the population having the first dose of the vaccine. In a you're a data guy. I trust you kept some numbers. Do you have a sense of how many people used Vaccine Hunters to get a vaccine?

ANDREW YOUNG: It's hard to tell because we've had some radio stations announce our posts informing people that a clinic has opened up to all postcodes, but if we estimate each of our 400,000 followers at our peak helped three people each more than we've helped at least one point two million people.

AG: Well, you certainly got attention.

ANDREW YOUNG: Yeah, this number might be on the low side because a few of our followers said they helped over 100 people get vaccinated from following us.

AG: I was just marvellous. And as I mentioned, many, many tweets thanking you and your team for what you've done. Here's a tweet from Health, Education and advocacy platform called The Misinformed. They tweeted: An enormous shout out to the team at Vax Hunter's Canada for truly transforming the landscape of public health in Canada by providing individuals with the information they need to get vaccinated. It's the end of the tweet. How do you feel about someone saying Vaccine Hunters has basically helped to transform public health during this pandemic?

ANDREW YOUNG: It's a great feeling. There is, I guess, a scene from Lord the Rings: The Return of the King, where the kingdom of Gondor lit a series of beacons or signal fires on top of mountains to signal to the land of Rohan for help because they were coming under attack. And by sharing our posts, Canadians helped light millions of these beacons all across Canada, and helped give hope to the country.

AG: That's a pretty good Tolkienesque metaphor for the pandemic.

ANDREW YOUNG: Yeah. We found, I think, a very interesting intersection between technology, specifically social media and public health, right. In terms of numbers, our final tweet was viewed over 2.2 million times and counting.

AG: Sorry sorry to interrupt you, but I do have a question for you. You talk about the computers and obviously those of us who were connected, a theme we've talked about on the show, you know, for the middle class people who have easy access through social media and the Internet and those kinds of things that we take for granted. How important you think your service was for communities that typically have barriers to vaccination? So people with lower incomes, people who might not have access to a computer — any idea of the kinds of different people that you reached?

ANDREW YOUNG: Yes, so all of our posts have been on social media and We've tried to reach the vaccine hunter in each household who were able to protect their loved ones, who may not be familiar with technology or have certain language barriers, or they live remotely, and help them book vaccine appointments.

AG: Right.

ANDREW YOUNG: The remaining people require more creative approaches. They might have mobility challenges, so home visits may be needed. Or they have language barriers, anxiety over needles and other challenges.

AG: Hmm. I just wonder, as somebody who received his second shot in February when my immunity is going to run out. What about the Delta variant and where you guys going to be when I need you?

ANDREW YOUNG: Right, so We're not completely gone. We're still around, our social media just went inactive on August 31. Right. We are monitoring the news and developments very closely and will become active if needed. For example, if kids born before 2009 are eligible to receive their doses, or if boosters are necessary. But we believe there is ample supply for everyone and instead we are pivoting. So our website, VaccineHunters.ca is the new central place for Canadians to visit. Where we have three self-serve options. So the first one is called Find Your Immunisation or FYI for short, which is a tool where Canadians can find vaccines at participating pharmacies nearby just by entering their postal code.

AG: So I have to sign things down. But can you just say that Internet address again?

ANDREW YOUNG: Oh, yes. vaccinehunters.ca.

AG: All right, so that remains the same. Well, listen, Andrew, pleasure to talk with you and all the best. I'm glad to hear that you can rematerialize like Gandalf in the pandemic kingdom if we need you again. Appreciate your time.

ANDREW YOUNG: Thank you. And thank you to you this programme and the media for helping us tell the story.

AG: Thank you. That's Andrew Young, the founder and director of Vaccine Hunters. Well, coming up after your regional update, the War Measures Act has been triggered for domestic reasons. Exactly once in Canadian history. The seventh episode of KBE of the CBC podcast Recall How to Start a Revolution. We'll take you inside the events that prompted that extraordinary political move. I'm Anthony Germain and you're listening to The Current.

Episode 7 of Recall: How to Start a Revolution

AG: I'm Anthony Germain and this is The Current. All of a sudden - it's September. How are you doing on your back-to-school checklist? Binders, pens... How about COVID tests? It is another pandemic school year, and we know you have questions. Are kids safe in classrooms, with the Delta variant in circulation? Should masks be required? If it's safe to play soccer, or sing in music class? We want to hear all of your questions. Write us. Our email is thecurrent@cbc.ca. Or Tweet us @TheCurrentCBC. And tune in on Monday. Matt Galloway will be back in the host chair -- and he'll put some of your questions to two medical experts who will try to offer some clarity. That's coming up next week, on The Current. It's time to continue the CBC Podcast Recall: How to start a revolution. In yesterday's episode, host Geoff Turner told the story of the FLQ's kidnappings of James Cross and Pierre Laporte, in October 1970. Today - the pivotal fall-out of those events.

SOUNDCLIP

Sound Clip: [Barbara Cross] It is now more than a week since I've heard from you. You are constantly in my thoughts, and you must know how much I long for your safe return.

Geoff Turner: This is the voice of Barbara Cross.

Sound Clip: [Barbara Cross] I do hope the FLQ will continue to allow you to write to me. Meanwhile, Susie and I are thinking of your every waking minute. And you must know you have all our love always.

Geoff Turner: It's late October 1970, almost a month after her husband, the British Trade Commissioner James Cross, was abducted by the FLQ. After the kidnapping of Cross on October 5th, his abductors left a communique in a mailbox at La Fontaine Park. It set out seven conditions for his release. It demanded that the authorities end all investigation of the FLQ, that it released 23 FLQ convicts, which it considered political prisoners, as well as to provide aircraft and their safe passage to Cuba or Algeria. They wanted some striking mail truck drivers to be rehired. And they also demanded that officials reveal the identity of the informant who had blown the cover on their rural hideout.

Geoff Turner: Oh, yeah, and they wanted half a million dollars in gold ingots, all in all, quite a shopping list. The communique also came with an eight‑page manifesto. And they demanded that it be published and broadcast. These conditions came with a 48 hour deadline, otherwise James Cross would be executed, but authorities were not in the mood for concessions. And on October 6th, the federal negotiator rejected the demands out of hand. So cell leader Jacques Lanctôt and his crew kept firing off communiques. They'd leave them in phone booths or dumpsters and then make a call to one of the radio stations.

Sound Clip: [Pierre Pascau on CKLM] During the commercial break they brought me the envelope. I opened it. And there was the communique. And I had about, what? In the end, 30 seconds to decide what I was going to do.

Geoff Turner: This made for exciting times in the newsroom. Reporters were getting the news faster than the police were, but the authorities wouldn't budge. And the kidnappers started to drop demands. Then they were forced to extend the 48 hour deadline for Cross' life. Louis Fournier was a young reporter at CKAC, a popular Montreal private radio station when all of this was unfolding. Being in the newsroom gave Fournier a front‑row seat to the unfolding political drama. And soon he would have his own role in that drama.

Geoff Turner: One evening after work, Fournier received a phone call telling him a taxi driver was on his way to deliver an envelope to his apartment. Half an hour later, as promised, a taxi driver showed up at his doorstep with the envelope. Inside there were three communiques and an eight‑page manifesto. At first, government officials, especially the prime minister, wanted the manifesto suppressed. The last thing they wanted to do is to give the FLQ a platform. So CKAC sat on it for 24 hours, but eventually the government relented and announced that Radio Canada would air the manifesto the next day.

Sound Clip: [Louis Fournier] [speaking French]

Geoff Turner: Arguing the public's right to know and a desire to beat their competitors, CKAC decided to broadcast the manifesto right away. And Fournier was the one chosen to read the text. “The Front de liberation du Quebec is neither the messiah, nor a modern‑day Robin Hood. It is a group of Quebec workers who are determined to use every means possible to ensure that the people of Quebec take control of their own destiny.” From the moment he read it, Fournier knew that it was a politically significant document.

Sound Clip: [Louis Fournier] [speaking French]

Geoff Turner: The text was incendiary. And Fournier says he could relate to the realities it described. It calls for total independence for Quebec, a new free Quebec, purged of the big bosses, they call voracious sharks. And they defend their action as a natural defensive response to the aggression of capitalists and their puppet governments. In very frank ways it talked about poverty and class struggle in the province. And it urged Quebecois to fight injustice and to take control of their destiny. Even the reading on Radio Canada the following night, which was deliberately delivered in a flat monotone, well, the message comes through loud and clear.

Sound Clip: [news reporter on Radio Canada] [speaking French]

Geoff Turner: It was steeped in Marxist ideology, but it wasn't written for academics. It was in the plain language of working people. It addressed the prime minister as 'Trudeau the faggot,' a homophobic slur meant to connect with Joe Lunchpail. Fournier says that even though he was fundamentally opposed to political violence, he felt a burst of emotion reading it. And Fournier wasn't alone. The manifesto hit home for lots of ordinary Quebeckers. Governments were scared of what that could mean. And in that moment it seemed like popular sentiment was gathering around the FLQ. Newspaper editorials appeared, imploring the government to negotiate with the kidnappers. But still, the authorities would not be moved. And now they would double down on the hardline approach.

Geoff Turner: The police came for Louis Fournier just two days after he delivered the FLQ's manifesto on air. They arrived at his home with no arrest warrant. And as it turned out, pretty soon they wouldn't actually need an arrest warrant for that kind of thing. Even with 50 years perspective, there's still plenty of debate about the lasting political and historical impact of the FLQ. During the seven or so years the group was active, more and more Quebeckers embraced Quebec independence, that's a fact. But whether the FLQ's bombs and threats and kidnappings fueled the separatist movement or held it back, that's less clear. But there's one thing the FLQ accomplished that has had unequivocal and lasting resonance. It didn't involve dynamite or guns. It was all about the power of words.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] A bomb exploded today in a federal government building in downtown Montreal.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] Would you say that this is a communist‑backed subversive group or would you say it's French separatist terrorism?

Sound Clip: [protesting man] Vive le FLQ! Vive la révolution Quebecois! [speaks French]

Sound Clip: [news reporter] The damaging of a section of track apparently with dynamite has been blamed on the so‑called Suicide Commandos.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] That they intend to murder in cold blood two innocent men unless their demands are met.

Sound Clip: [Barbara Cross] Your letters have moved me to hope that we will soon be together again. I do hope the FLQ will continue to allow you to write to me.

Geoff Turner: I'm Geoff Turner, and this is ‘Recall: How to Start a Revolution’. Chapter Seven: ‘The War of Nerves.’ While Fournier was being questioned down at the station, cops searched his apartment and seized a number of documents, including some from the FLQ. They also took away his typewriter. Police asked Fournier if he was a member of the FLQ. He said, no. And then he added, I can show you. I don't have a membership card. It was a joke, and as you might imagine, it fell a bit flat with the cops, but they did let them go. It would be three months before he finally got his typewriter back. The short detention was puzzling and unsettling. He was a journalist, after all, but it was nothing compared to what came next.

Sound Clip: [Louis Fournier] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: Fournier was back on the job and working the early shift at CKAC the morning of October 16th. His day started at 5am. This was just an hour after the federal government proclaimed the War Measures Act for the first time since the second world war. It wasn't long before the phone lines at the station started lighting up, reports of arrests, police showing up out of the blue and taking people into custody. Ten people, then 20, then 100. The phones would not stop ringing.

Sound Clip: [Louis Fournier] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: It was a peculiar day, Fournier says. And pretty soon, he'd know just who the targets were.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] Among the first people picked up during the raids were Charles Gagnon, Pierre Vallières, Michel Chartrand, and Robert Lemieux.

Geoff Turner: All of whom had spoken at the FLQ rally at the Paul Sauvé Arena the night before. With the power to arrest and detain without charge, police were rounding up just about anyone they could connect with the FLQ.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] It hasn't been so crowded in many years and the - and the drama is really ripping around the place. The prime minister has just been up, and he's explained the reasons for the action, why the War Measures Act has been invoked in this case. He admits it...

Geoff Turner: On Parliament Hill, the atmosphere was tense as the War Measures Act became the centre of debate. Opposition leaders had plenty of criticism for Trudeau, but only one leader directly challenged the implementation of the WMA.

Sound Clip: [male speaker] Now we have Tommy Douglas.

Sound Clip: [male speaker] Mr. Douglas, you describe this as Black Friday. Would you care to elaborate?

Sound Clip: [Tommy Douglas] Well, I think it is Black Friday when government for the first time in history invokes the War Measures Act in peacetime.

Geoff Turner: The leader of the social democratic party, the NDP.

Sound Clip: [Tommy Douglas] This means that right now the police at any time can pick up any person who in their opinion is a member of an organization that is subversive and illegal. They can hold them for 90 days without bringing them to trial, without giving them any chance to prove their innocence...

Geoff Turner: His hypothetical concerns were becoming a reality.

Sound Clip: [René Lévesque] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: Parti Québécois leader René Lévesque saw firsthand the implications of the War Measures Act. His volunteers were targeted and arrested across the province. But on October 16th, as citizens and politicians alike debated the merit of the crackdown, police still had no idea where to find James Cross or Pierre Laporte. And then came October 17th.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] Is there any mention of Cross? It's not confirmed. OK.

Geoff Turner: What you're hearing right now is this remarkable scene unfolding in the newsroom at CKAC. It's footage from a 1973 National Film Board documentary by Robin Spry. It's called 'Action: The October Crisis of 1970.' There's a real behind‑the‑scenes feel to it, as though someone picked up the camera on a whim. A reporter in the newsroom stops mid-step to ask about James Cross before striding off towards the radio studio, paper in hand, the camera following. There's an air of urgency. Something big has happened.

Geoff Turner: It's rare enough to see camera footage like this from inside a radio station, but even rarer for it to capture a moment like the one that's about to come. It's a Saturday. More than 300 people have already been arrested under the War Measures Act. And Pierre Laporte's family is marking a week since his disappearance. That afternoon the government agrees to fly the kidnappers to Cuba if they give up Laporte and Cross. There's even a plane waiting for them at Dorval Airport. But earlier that same day a reporter from CKAC received a message from the FLQ.

Sound Clip: [news reader on CKAC radio] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: He reports the discovery of a body, but the name of the victim remains unconfirmed. Then here comes this other reporter just a short time later. He sits down across from the news reader and he pulls on his headphones. Others crowd into the studio around him.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] We should like to remind listeners once again that 11:10pm exactly close to St. Hubert Airport that the car which was used one week ago to kidnap Pierre Laporte in front of his home on Robitaille Street in St. Lambert was formally identified.

Geoff Turner: By now there's also a rumour that the body of James Cross has been found. Other outlets have been reporting it, but the story hasn't been confirmed yet.

Sound Clip: [news reporter] At exactly 12:25, or rather at 0:25 or 25 minutes after midnight, the trunk of the car was finally opened and the body of Mr. Laporte was discovered covered in blood. CKAC Telemedia, first with the news. We'll be back in a few moments...Telemedia Montreal.

Geoff Turner: And with that, the news reader takes a deep drag on his cigarette, pushes back from the mic, and drops the needle on this album of sombre music. The reporter crumples up his copy. They both leave the room. Next, we see Claude Lachance, who witnessed the discovery of the car. She sits to answer questions. She looks haunted.

Sound Clip: [Claude Lachance] Finding the car with the license number which they had indicated. It was 90% sure that there was something in it. All the police told us was that there was something very heavy in the trunk of the car. And they opened it, and the policeman who opened the trunk, he was from the bomb disposal unit. And they opened the trunk and they said that there was indeed a man in the trunk. So all we could see was some white clothes with blood stains on them. And then a few minutes later the men from the identification squad arrived. And they removed the clothes. And we recognized the body of Laporte.

Geoff Turner: Laporte's wrists were wrapped in blood‑stained towels. His cheeks were swollen. His nostrils and lips bloodied. Then she's asked about the communique, which she remembers almost by heart.

Sound Clip: [Claude Lachance] Faced with the arrogance of the federal government and its lackey Bourassa, the FLQ decided to take action. Mr. Pierre Laporte, Minister of Unemployment and Assimilation, was assassinated this evening at 18 minutes past 6.

Geoff Turner: Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau once again takes to the airwaves to address the country.

Sound Clip: [Pierre Trudeau] Well, it was shock and consternation I believe that all Canadians have learned of the death of Mr. Pierre Laporte, who was so cowardly assassinated by a band of murderers.

Geoff Turner: René Lévesque is at Parti Québécois Headquarters in Montreal when he gets the call. Lévesque is devastated. Laporte, Trudeau, and Lévesque were from the same generation. They'd met each other at the journal 'Cité Libre' in the early '60s. And they'd taken separate paths, but despite their differences, Lévesque and Laporte had remained friends. And now one of them is dead. The following day René Lévesque holds a press conference.

Sound Clip: [René Lévesque] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: "Those who coldly and deliberately executed Mr. Laporte, after seeing him live in hope for so many days, are inhuman," he says. "Those murderers," Lévesque ads, "have imported methods, such as blackmailing and assassination and fanaticism that will never be justified in a society like Quebec."

For many that was a turning point. Lévesque was drawing a clear line between the Parti Québécois and the radical separatist movement. It might have saved the party and the cause of separatism. Pierre Laporte was buried in Montreal on October 20th.

Sound Clip: [Liz Trotta reporting on the upcoming funeral] The mass will be a Gregorian high solemn Requiem, the same kind one priest said here that was said for president John F. Kennedy seven years ago in the United States. This is Liz Trotta, NBC News, in Montreal.

Geoff Turner: His widow, Francoise, rejected a state funeral, but with so many of Canada's political leaders in attendance, no one was taking any chances. Sharpshooters lined rooftops, helicopters circled above, hundreds of soldiers and police officers formed a cordon for the procession. The day before the funeral, a tip had brought police to the little house on Armstrong. In the mess, they found a number of contacts and their details, abandoned versions of communiques, drops of blood and two orders of barbecue chicken. But no trace of Pierre Laporte's killers. They'd simply vanished. Inside the house at Des Récollets where James Cross was held, the mood was sombre.

Sound Clip: [Jacques Cossette‑Trudel] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: Jacques Cossette‑Trudel was one of the kidnappers. He played a crucial role in the Liberation cell. He and his wife Louise Lanctôt, Jacques Lanctôt's sister, helped plan and execute the abduction of James Cross. He says that when he heard news of the death of Pierre Laporte, he spent the night crying.

Sound Clip: [Jacques Cossette‑Trudel] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: When he joined the movement, he says, he knew that they were into violent action attacking symbols, those kinds of things, but he wasn't signing up for assassinations. While he felt anger, that anger wasn't against individuals, it was against the system. Cossette‑Trudel had come to the FLQ out of frustration with the political situation in Quebec.

Sound Clip: [Jacques Cossette‑Trudel] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: As a student leader, he'd fought for French rights and higher education. He was outraged by the Brink's Affair, when a major bank had millions of dollars in securities transferred from Montreal to Toronto in a very public convoy of armored cars. This was Anglo capital flexing its muscles, warning Quebeckers ahead of an election of the consequences of sovereignty. He'd been disgusted when Montreal Mayor Jean Drapeau had responded to months of demonstrations by banning large gatherings, including protests in the city. And he says the death threats against Cross were just tough talk, showing off.

Geoff Turner: Cossette‑Trudel believes the police knew that. The FLQ needed bargaining power. And the threat of death gave them that. He points out that his cell dropped the death threat once the manifesto was broadcast. And when they crossed that line, Cossette‑Trudel says he flipped out. He was done with the FLQ. But of course, it wasn't that simple. He couldn't just walk away. And they had another problem on their hands now. The media had also announced the death of James Cross.

Sound Clip: [James Cross in an interview] That was appalling, and particularly the night when, if I may say so, the CBC announced that I was dead.

Geoff Turner: But those early reports proved wrong. As you can hear from this tape, James Cross was still very much alive. In fact, as of this recording, James Cross is still alive. He's 99 years old. But back on October 17th, 1970, he was a hostage in the house on Rue des Recollets, and he was hearing the news of his own death.

Sound Clip: [James Cross in an interview] Well, I was watching it on television. It was all broadcast live.

Geoff Turner: Within days the FLQ would release proof of life, a picture of Cross sitting on a box of dynamite playing a game of solitaire. By his side was also a copy of Pierre Vallières' book. In 2010 he spoke to CBC about his experience as a hostage and what it was like for his family.

Sound Clip: [James Cross interview with CBC] Well, that was as I say, the horror of it. Yeah, the real horror. And then a few minutes later it was that CBC statement. And they announced that I was dead. And I was afraid that my wife would be watching and it wasn't until about one o’clock the next day when a letter they allowed me to write got to her to confirm that I was still alive.

Geoff Turner: Cross was already struggling with his situation.

Sound Clip: [James Cross interview with CBC] Well, I wasn't abused or beaten or anything like that, but, I mean, I was under a sentence of death, which was extremely stressful.

Geoff Turner: Adding to that stress would have been the living arrangements. Imagine being held captive in a small three‑bedroom apartment on the bottom floor of a house occupied by seven other people. You can't leave the house. The windows are covered 24/7. The kidnappers are running out of money so the food is bad. And there's friction within the group. And just to take the tension up a notch, in late October the leader Jacques Lanctôt, well, his wife moves in. She's seven months pregnant and arriving to a house of dynamite, machine guns, and bickering abductors.

Geoff Turner: When the Liberation cell abducted Cross on October 5th, they thought they'd only be holding him a few days tops. But the government's hard line put them in a bind. And the negotiations dragged on. So two months later they found themselves still stuck with this diplomat on their hands and no idea what to do with him. By this point, there was also $150,000 reward on the table for any tip that would lead to their capture. They didn't want to kill James Cross, but they couldn't bring themselves to free him either. It would have been a public sign of weakness. And to James Cross, the threat of death still felt present and real.

Sound Clip: [James Cross interview with CBC] The whole time there was the constant worry as to what was going to happen, particularly after Laporte was killed.

Geoff Turner: And he had a pretty strong sense of how things were unfolding in the outside world.

Sound Clip: [James Cross interview with CBC] The television was on all the time. I mean, from about 10:00 in the morning to about 3:00 in the next morning. So, you know, news and the papers were coming in. So news was there all the time. For the first few days I was in handcuffs on the bed. And then I was allowed to sit in the chair. So I stayed in the chair facing the television for, you know ‑ except when I was in bed ‑ for the whole time. I think all I did was sort of, as it were, slow down, you know, not ‑ trying not to get too emotional about anything, so that I neither tried neither to get too hopeful or too depressed and tried to sort of maintain a level keel and see what happened, because, you know, there was no way I could affect the outcome of things.

Geoff Turner: And as the weeks turned into months, James Cross felt increasingly helpless.

Sound Clip: [James Cross interview with CBC] We did have a few conversations, particularly in the early days before Laporte's death. After that I didn't really want to talk to them very much. But, I mean, they were ‑ we would have conversations. I mean, they got me to write certain letters for the public. And we talked ‑ you know, we would discuss what they wanted me to say. And again, in the early days I think we had certain discussions about their philosophies. I was trying to understand what they were all about. I mean, they were like most fanatics. They were just so convinced they were right. They didn't have to argue. And they had the gun, which is one of the best arguments.

Geoff Turner: We can actually give you a really good sense of what those conversations in the house on Rue des Recollets sounded like. That's because the kidnappers believed they were making history and wanted to preserve a document of their accomplishment. And so in the middle of November they made this recording.

Sound Clip: [man speaking in FLQ audio recording] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: It's sort of a political testament, and it's a little bit weird. It sounds like a bunch of intellectuals discussing current events over a cup of tea, rather than say, terrorists holding someone hostage in the next room. We hear them talk about how the kidnapping of Cross and Laporte is a very beautiful example of collaboration between the two cells. That was a first, they say. They praised themselves for having the best structure and the best organization in the history of the FLQ.

Sound Clip: [man speaking in FLQ audio recording] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: It's part rationalization, part myth making, and for a number of years this recording would be the only source of information on the inner workings of the Liberation cell. They talk about their big victory, the broadcast of the manifesto. For the first time their message has been heard right across the province without the filter of the media or the authorities.

Sound Clip: [man speaking in FLQ audio recording] [speaks French]

Geoff Turner: They hope people realize now that they're not bandits or barbarians and that the public will join them in their fight for a more equal society, a Quebec freed from its political and economic masters. Then they turned their attention to the War Measures Act, proof to them that the real power is in Ottawa, not Quebec. They complain about the federal government overshadowing them in radical action by using the War Measures Act to censor progressive voices in Quebec. Denise Boucher was one of those voices.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] Bonjour. Hello. My name is Denise Boucher. I'm 84. And I'm a poet. And it's snowing today, beautiful little snow. And we are in December.

Geoff Turner: She also made her name as a playwright, but journalism was paying her bills back in 1970. She was a cultural reporter who moved in intellectual circles. She was close with Gaston Miron, one of Quebec's most important poets. And she had counted the FLQ's ideological leader Pierre Vallières as a colleague. And when the War Measures Act came into effect, she took it personally.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] We have Trudeau trying to make us afraid.

Geoff Turner: And she says the FLQ were trying to make people afraid as well. For weeks, Boucher watched as one friend after another was taken away by police. When she heard that Gaston Miron had been arrested, she went to his home hoping it wasn't true. His mum was there. And told her a story about men storming in, their guns drawn. Boucher found a piece of paper mixed in with Miron's belongings. It was a list of names. She took it with her. She was contemplating what to do with it when she ran into a military roadblock.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] They were looking in every car to see if people were not carrying bombs and all that. They are very hysterical. So when I saw that I said, "Oh, my god." But I thought that image was protective, but I took the paper I have found and I eat it, because we never know when they abuse, they abuse.

Geoff Turner: That's right. She ate the list of names she'd found. Boucher hadn't even read it, but that's how paranoid people were in those days, she says. It wasn't long before that paranoia gave way to reality.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] It was in the 18 of November. And I was prepared to go to a party. It was a place where artists were going. I had a long dress. I always have on a long dress.

Geoff Turner: So there's Denise Boucher, in her evening dress, her hair done up, ready to hit the town, when the door swings open.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] They came with the janitor who opened the door for them. And it was an apartment where the telephone was ‑ there was a central telephone. And I told them, just somebody call me that I am jail...without that, I was living alone. There was nobody or ‑ should have known.

Sound Clip: [Geoff Turner] So you were by yourself?

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] Yes.

Sound Clip: [Geoff Turner] Can you describe what your feelings were at that moment?

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] Not to lose my mind, just keep quiet. Look for what ‑ I am a journalist. To look what is going on. What is happening? Who are they? Where would they take ‑ where they take me?

Geoff Turner: Boucher watched as police grabbed her typewriter and gathered up her papers.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] They took papers. I always have a lot of papers. You know what it is to be a journalist and a writer. That's your - paper's life.

Geoff Turner: And then they took her away to the provincial jail.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] And when I arrived at the jail, the guardian, the guards, were women. And they said, “Oh, they have arrested a woman, a dame.”

Geoff Turner: Boucher had had no time to change, no time to grab any personal items. Boucher was held on a floor for women. Everyone was on edge.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] We were very nervous because they were acting like pigs. They were looking for the brothers, Rose...

Geoff Turner: Paul and Jacques Rose had disappeared after the murder of Pierre Laporte. So police had brought in their mother and two sisters, Suzanne who was 16 and Lise who was 24.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] They were playing with her...

Geoff Turner: Boucher tells us that she witnessed police abusing Lise in prison, stripping her naked and passing her around in a game called “four corners.”

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] We kept silence because we did not know how to live this abusive situation. It was horrible.

Geoff Turner: Lise Rose would later testify to what she'd suffered, but as far as Boucher knows, nothing ever came of it, which is why she wants it on the record now, all these years later.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] We were discovering that we were in danger, and we could not trust them. It was terrible to learn that. It's always terrible to learn that we are not safe for everybody.

Geoff Turner: Boucher herself was interrogated a few times. She was asked about her relationships with Pierre Vallières and other cultural figures on the left.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] They were fascists. Trudeau was no more in direction of this country. It was dominating it like a tyran. What is the name in English for “tyran”?

Sound Clip: [Geoff Turner] Tyrant.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] Tyrant. They were always afraid of us, that we could provoke a revolution. They were killing an idea, and they were killing an idea.

Geoff Turner: Boucher says she found a different voice in prison, one that drew on the anger she felt and on the strength of the women that she was locked up with. The story of the FLQ was a story about men, after all, for the most part, at least, but women were deeply affected by their actions. And Boucher was determined to use that.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] That we can take a chance to live and to write what we have in our mind and not to be afraid to say what we want to say. And I wrote...

Geoff Turner: After all the FLQ trials had wrapped, Boucher wrote a play called 'The Fairies are Thirsty.' It's about three women, a housewife, the whore, and the virgin, all wrestling to break free of the regressive stereotypes that have imprisoned them and made them invisible. At the time it was met with calls to be censored, even banned. Boucher was told by one theatre director, he couldn't stage it because men weren't ready to accept it. That's how Boucher knew she had a hit. It still is.

Sound Clip: [Denise Boucher] Now this year it's playing all around Quebec and it's going well. You know?

Geoff Turner: When the pandemic shut Quebec's theaters, one Montreal house even took the production online. Boucher is still angry about what happened to her, to her friends, to the women imprisoned under the War Measures Act. You can hear it in her voice. In the end, Denise Boucher spent 20 days in jail, never charged, never offered a change of clothes. She left wearing the same long, purple dress she'd arrived in.

AG: That's our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for q. Where they are launching a brand new podcast. It is called the q interview, and Tom Power is stopping by to tell guest host Talia Schlanger all about it. They will also revisit Tom Power's conversation with celebrity chef Jamie Oliver, from earlier this year, about his newest cookbook, and what he's listening to these days while he's in the kitchen. I'm Anthony Germain. Thanks for listening to The Current.

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