Deaf Uber drivers talk to Daybreak about being excluded from Quebec pilot project

Editor's note: CBC is publishing this transcript of a segment from the CBC Montreal morning radio program, Daybreak, so that the deaf people who were interviewed, as well as the deaf community, can access the information that aired on the program.

• Read more on this story: Dozens of deaf Uber drivers shut out of pilot project

Mike Finnerty (host): This week, a Quebec judge rejected the taxi drivers' request for an injunction to suspend Uber's deal with the province.

And that means Uber's pilot project is set to go ahead starting one week from today. It's good news for the ride-hailing app, but the deal with Quebec could still force some of Uber's drivers out of work. Deaf Uber drivers. 

They say they've been forgotten. One of the conditions in the deal is impossible for them to meet. Daybreak's Shari Okeke has met some of those deaf Uber drivers and she's with us in the studio now. 

Shari, good morning.

Shari Okeke (journalist): Good morning Mike. 

Well deaf people can get the same driver's permit as the rest of us. That's called a Class 5 permit. And so there are deaf Uber drivers and I met with two of them.

Now of course we needed a sign language interpreter with us. So it's her voice [sign language interpreter Suzanne Nault] you're going to hear in a minute.

But let's start with Patrick Lazure. He's a 37 year old driver, he's married and has two young children. Patrick used to work in construction, he had some other jobs too but he told me that none of that work was stable enough.

Then he heard about Uber. It sounded interesting to him so he filled out an application and Patrick says when it came time to meet people at Uber face to face, this was a new experience for them.

Patrick Lazure (deaf Uber driver): They were surprised that I was a deaf person because they don't know if I'm deaf or because the way I wrote down the [registration]. I said I have insurance. I have a permit. I have a car and everything. So they were very surprised that I was I showed up with an interpreter and I said I want to be a driver.

Mike: And that of course is Patrick speaking through a sign language interpreter, a female sign language interpreter.
So that's going to take a little getting used to in the course of your piece, Shari. But what was it like getting Uber to, well, to persuade them that he could be an Uber driver?

Shari:  He says at the Uber office here in Quebec, they'd never met a deaf driver before. They were a little bit taken aback. But very quickly, just within a few minutes, they decided they'd try to get him out there for a week and see how it goes, see how Uber customers would rate him on the app. 

Patrick Lazure (deaf Uber driver): I drove and I had very many marks and stars and they said, "Wow I'm so impressed." I said I wanted to hire more deaf people. So I've been asking and now I think we have almost 40 people and I'm very happy.

We're proud because you know, wow, it matches. It's a good job for me.

We're comfortable and influences our family life. We have a better life quality. We're like equal to the others. 

Mike: Forty Uber drivers who are deaf in Quebec, is there any way of checking that out Shari?

Shari: Well, Uber wouldn't give me the exact number. But a spokesperson did confirm there are dozens of "deaf or hard of hearing" Uber drivers in Quebec. And Uber has adapted its technology for those drivers.

So when there is a call, for example, the driver's smart phone will flash a very bright light. You really can't miss it. And the client also receives a note that it is a deaf driver who is on the wa. The client, as is always the case with any Uber client, can accept or cancel the ride.

Mike: Now you said these drivers, the dozens of deaf Uber drivers, are excluded from the deal that Uber struck with the province, how so?

Shari:  Under the deal with Quebec, Uber has agreed that all its drivers will obtain what is called a Class 4C driver's permit, that's for taxis or limousines.

To get that, you need to have had your regular driver's permit for at least a year. You need to pass a knowledge test, and you need be in good health so that requires a medical exam [and] a signature from a doctor. But people who are deaf simply cannot have access to a class 4C permit. 

I spoke with Mario Vaillancourt — spokesperson for the SAAQ — he says that's the rule and it's about safety.

Mario Vaillancourt (SAAQ):  Because the responsibility is different than if you are driving a passenger car, a passenger vehicle. We'll have to communicate with someone during your work. It's because the nature of the work is different, you have to be able to communicate. I think it's the main reason because you won't be able to have [a] 4C drivers licence if you're completely deaf. 

Mike: Of course they are able to communicate. So you can drive a taxi, or eventually an Uber, if you're hard of hearing but not if you're deaf?

Shari:  Yes. The SAAQ spokesperson told me you have to be able to hear someone speaking and understand what they're saying even if you hear it very quietly. That's not the case for the drivers I spoke with.

Patrick Lazure was born hearing but at six months old he tells me he caught meningitis and says he completely lost his hearing after that. I also spoke with Louis Desbiens, another deaf Uber driver. He says he was born deaf.  

Both of them say they're really grateful to work for Uber but they say Uber forgot about them when it struck this deal with the province. But Louis Desbiens says he and the other deaf drivers are more focused on the province. They want to put pressure on Quebec to change that rule in the first place that prevents deaf people from driving taxis or limousines.

So here's Louis Desbiens, again through the sign language interpreter, saying this is about equality.

Louis Desbiens (deaf Uber driver):  It has to be equal with the hearing people, we have to fight for that. You know, like the government have to understand that with new technology it's easy for us.

They used to have CB in the old times, we know that. We can't use that, that's for sure. But today there's no reason why we can't. Keeping that same rule and that same law, you know. They have to be more modern now, more open, [to] give deaf people the opportunity and have access to a job.

Mike:  Such a good point about the tech. Right, because that is largely the disrupter effect of Uber. [That it] was this incredible new technology and it does allow, as we're as we've been hearing [and] as we'll continue to hear, it allows the driver even if they're deaf and can't speak, to communicate with the passenger. 

Look, communicating aside, I should say between the driver and the clients aside there is also, Shari, things like sirens, things like car horns or drivers slamming on the brakes, what about that?

Shari:  Well both Louis and Patrick told me that being deaf, their other senses are all heightened. Especially their sense of sight.

They're especially visual, they're looking around all the time noticing things that many of us who can hear may not even be paying attention to. I decided to tag along with Louis Desbiens when he was driving clients around the other day.

(SOUND OF MUSIC PLAYING IN CAR)

Shari: So I was surprised the radio was on the car the moment I got in and he told me Uber clients love listening to music so he often plays the radio even though he can't hear it

Mike: I understand Uber clients love CBC Radio too you should tell him that (laugh). Was the interpreter with you in the car at this point? 

Shari: No, the interpreter was not with us so I just managed to communicate with him in all the ways his Uber clients do.

I mean he has a notepad in the front seat. If I wanted to write a note I could write [it] out or I could tap out a text on my phone and then show it to him.

Of course we would do that when we were stopped at a light or a stop sign. I wound up using my own sort of spontaneous hand signals that he was able to (laugh) seemed to interpret coming from me and it worked out.

Mike: And what about the customers? How did they react when they're suddenly picked up and they see the driver is deaf and doesn't speak?

Shari: Well, the very first customer got in the car started signing with Louis so at first I thought, "Oh this customer is deaf too." But then he started speaking to me.

Jérémie Abbou owns a web marketing company and uses Uber a lot. He says he wasn't surprised a deaf driver showed up with a journalist because the app actually let him know we were coming in advance.

Jérémie Abbou (Uber client):  Now for the first time I received a notification that my driver is deaf so I was able to prepare myself before getting inside the car.

Shari: What went through your mind when you read that notification? 

Jérémie Abbou (Uber client): For me it's a bit special because my parents are deaf but like I was happy able to practice sign language.

Mike: So he was more than comfortable having a deaf driver?

Shari: He was absolutely comfortable, he told me his parents who are also deaf live in Paris and they drive too so it all made sense to him. What doesn't make sense to Jérémie is the fact that deaf drivers here cannot get that 4C driver's permit to drive taxis.

Jérémie Abbou (Uber client):  It's a bit strange that if they are allowed to drive their family or themselves how could they be not driving a car for somebody else? Especially if some technical solutions are set up like the one I just told you about by Uber to be able to [sensitize] people about like deaf people. Maybe at the contrary it could show the other people they are able to drive cars and they are maybe not so different from the others. 

Mike: Okay, but Jérémie's situation is pretty particular as he has deaf parents. What about other clients? Were they as open-minded?

Shari:  They were. Now remember Uber sends a notification that it is a deaf driver on his or her way and the client can cancel the ride. If they do cancel the ride, you don't really ever know why they cancelled it, it could be because it's taking so long to get there or taking too long in the client's opinion.

But Louis told me he's had very few cancelled rides since he started driving Uber about a year ago. And so the only customers I met were people who of course accepted to ride with us. 

Ivana Gimeno was heading from her job as a project manager over to HEC where she teaches a course and she said she figures most Uber users would support deaf drivers.

Ivana Gimeno (Uber client): Being an Uber user, you're like open to technology, most likely younger, so open to this kind of opportunity. It's great for them. It gives them work. It's part of the whole sharing economy. I guess that Uber is part of it, so I don't think most people would be fazed out from it. 

Shari: And at HEC we picked up Arnaud Paquet, another teacher there, who says he takes Uber at least twice a day and he'd actually ridden with Louis before. Arnaud told me he finds Louis' driving. Impeccable was the word he used. He even said he notices Louis checks his blind spot more often than most other drivers.

Arnaud Paquet (Uber client): He's perfect for that job. He's very polite. He drives very mildly in a secure fashion and he's basically the secure driver and for that job.

I mean you don't need full bodied person who can hear and I say if we can have these deaf people doing a perfect job in these, why just cut another job from them?

Mike: So are deaf Uber drivers going to lose their jobs?

Shari:  Well I tried to find out what Uber is doing about this.

Uber wouldn't do an interview or speak with me on the phone but by email a spokesperson simply wrote, "We continue to advocate on behalf of deaf and hard-of-hearing driver-partners and we will keep them advised on the impact of Quebec regulations for ride sharing." 

So that doesn't really say much, they're continuing to work on it.

Mike: No.

Shari: But Patrick Lazure told me Uber has told the deaf drivers that they're trying to get an exception for deaf drivers like him. So that they can be part of the pilot project without that 4C taxi driving permit. But that's not what Patrick wants.

Here's what Patrick told me, and again this is the voice of the sign language interpreter in the room with us.

Patrick Lazure (deaf Uber driver): We can't have just an exception we'd like everybody to be in the same boat and fight together because we've seen the situation and all our frustrations.

We have all our barriers. So we want to open the barriers so we're, just recently, we're trying to discuss and we're hoping we can work together.  

Shari: So deaf Uber drivers they don't want an exception. They want a change to the rules for getting a 4C permit. Period. 

That way deaf people who want to work for Teo taxi, the electric cab company for example, or any taxi company, would be allowed. They're hoping hearing people and other hearing Uber drivers as well will help pressure the government for that change.

Mike: How much support do they have?

Shari:  Well they're getting support from the Metropolitan Montreal Deaf Community Centre, which says it's meeting with MNA Amir Khadir and planning to put pressure on the Transport Ministry to change that rule that stops deaf people from getting the 4C taxi driving permit. And the drivers want to show their driving records that they've got with Uber. They say they have higher ratings than all the other drivers.

Mike: Yeah I guess it's a form of metric, yeah.

Shari: That's what they want to show and they also say they have fewer accidents so they're trying to spread the word, you know they want to talk to the public, part of that is talking to us.

Louis Desbiens says his biggest worry really is that deaf people will be losing an important opportunity to have meaningful work, because it's so hard for them to find jobs.

Louis Desbiens (deaf Uber driver):  Because often people complain, they said, "Oh they're on welfare. They don't work and people pay for us and we pay income tax for them. It's not true a lot of people a lot of deaf people can work."

We don't want the gift of social welfare. We don't want that you know we don't want to go back, we have a lot of barriers, they're preventing us you know like to do to have jobs and everything we want to break that you know and we have to stop that.

We're just showing them we have a good model, that even handicapped people and deaf people, you know, they can do what they want. They can.

Shari: They feel their experience as Uber drivers has already helped open some people's minds and they're hoping to somehow force a change in that rule so deaf drivers can have an equal chance at getting that 4C taxi permit. 

Mike: What's your view do you think deaf drivers? Drivers who can't speak should they be able to drive taxis and Ubers under the new arrangement?

Let us know (514) 566-9066 and you can read all about Shari's piece online cbc.ca/montreal we'll post that. Thank you Shari.

Shari: Thank you.

• Read more on this story: Dozens of deaf Uber drivers shut out of pilot project