Changes needed to make courts more welcoming to child witnesses, advocates say after Manitoba case stayed

WARNING: This article may affect those who have experienced​ ​​​sexual violence or know someone affected by it.

Advocates for child victims and witnesses say Canada's justice system has a lot of work to do to make it more fair and supportive for children.

Those calls come after sexual assault charges against a priest in Little Grand Rapids First Nation were stayed inside a Winnipeg courtroom Wednesday, one day after the now nine-year-old girl at the centre of the case testified against him.

Christy Dzikowicz, the chief executive officer of the Toba Centre for Children & Youth — an advocacy centre focused on children who have experienced physical or sexual abuse — said she couldn't comment specifically on this week's case, but that generally, there are  long-standing issues around how and where kids give their testimony.

"I think most people in society … want to see offenders held accountable if and when crimes have been committed against children, and right now, the pathway to getting there is extraordinarily challenging for children," she said.

"We have a hard time having kids come forward in the first place."

Manitoba courtrooms can offer closed-circuit testimony, but Dzikowicz said it isn't consistently used, because lawyers have to argue for it in each case.

"At our [Toba] centre, we've just recently created closed-circuit testimony rooms. We've not used them for Manitoba children yet, but there is certainly an appetite to do so," Dzikowicz said.

This week, when the nine-year-old-girl delivered her testimony in Manitoba Court of King's Bench during the trial of Arul Savari, the priest sat in the courtroom, but behind a screen that prevented the girl from seeing him.

Dzikowicz argues that isn't a child-friendly initiative.

"The reality is if you've been harmed by a person, or potentially harmed by a person, and you know they're in the same room as you … children understand that that person is in the room, and that can be very intimidating," she said.

Savari was accused of sexual assault, sexual interference and forcible confinement in Little Grand Rapids First Nation, a remote First Nation, about 265 kilometres north of Winnipeg. He had pleaded not guilty to the charges.

The girl clutched a stuffed animal as she testified on Tuesday, the first day of his trial. The allegations she made against Savari included that he took his clothes off, told her he loved her, touched her legs and her belly, and kissed her during an incident in 2023.

Savari's lawyers raised questions about some of the girl's allegations, saying there were inconsistencies in the girl's accounts.

Defence lawyer Tom Rees instead suggested none of the things the girl alleged actually happened, in a line of questioning the child repeatedly responded to with a soft "yes."

Justice Shawn Greenberg suggested the girl was getting confused by the way the questions were worded, which led to the girl being asked to leave the courtroom as the lawyers and judge discussed the best way to phrase the questions in a way she could understand.

On Wednesday, during what was supposed to be the second day of his judge-alone trial, Crown attorney Danielle Simard told Greenberg prosecutors made the decision to stay the charges after taking a careful look at the evidence following the girl's testimony.

Robin Heald, the executive director of the Child Witness Centre in Kitchener, Ont. — an organization that supports children and their families who are victims of or witnesses to crime — believes the court failed the child.

"When we're talking about children in particular, they come in at all different ages and stages of development, and it doesn't make them a worse witness," said Heald, whose organization walks kids and their families through the justice system, from the investigation phase through to the courts.

"What it means is that a trauma-informed judge needs to step in as soon as the question is phrased in a way that is not appropriate for that child's age and stage immediately, so that that child doesn't have a stumbling response."

Heald herself is a child victim and witness, and was once cross-examined in court in her youth. She said she knows how difficult it is for a child to speak publicly about an incident that has caused so much "fear and trepidation" for them.

Like Dzikowicz, Heald believes ideas such as closed-circuit or remote testimony — which her centre in southern Ontario has — need to be expanded throughout the country, but understands that's not close to being a reality.

Many defence attorneys can be quick to oppose it, but she argues it would make cross-examination fair and more comfortable for kids.

Dzikowicz agrees.

"If we're wanting children to share truth, we need to look at a different approach," she said. Courts in the U.K., for example, use intermediaries who provide questions to children, said Dzikowicz.

"There are countries that actually use forensic interviewers, much like we have in child advocacy centres," she said.

On Tuesday, RCMP said the investigation into Savari "is still very much ongoing at this time."

A stay of charges means while the charges are not formally withdrawn, they are not proceeding through court at this time. The province has a year from the date charges are stayed to reinstate them.

WATCH | Kids not set up for success in justice system, advocates say:

Advocates say children aren't being set up for success in justice system

13 days ago

Duration 2:19

Advocates for child victims and child witnesses say our justice system has a long way to go to make it fair and supportive for children. It comes after charges were stayed yesterday against a priest accused of sexually assaulting a young girl.

For anyone who has been sexually assaulted, there is support available through crisis lines and local support services via the Ending Violence Association of Canada database. ​​If you're in immediate danger or fear for your safety or that of others around you, please call 911.