Pickering councillor spoke on 'extremist' podcast, council says
Pickering Mayor Kevin Ashe is asking the province to intervene
The mayor of Pickering and several city council members want the province to legislate stricter sanctions for the conduct of municipal officials after a councillor appeared on a controversial podcast where the host labelled her colleagues pedophiles, Nazis and fascists.
Coun. Lisa Robinson was a guest on a July 30 episode of "Live with Kevin J. Johnston" – a podcast hosted by Johnston, who has repeatedly displayed racist behaviour in recent years and previously pleaded guilty to a hate crime in Ontario in connection with anti-Muslim posts he shared online.
In a statement issued this week, Pickering's mayor and councillors called Johnston an "extremist" podcaster, saying the episode attacked the 2SLGBTQ+ community and vilified the Black Lives Matter movement.
Mayor Kevin Ashe said Robinson's participation was both irresponsible and unethical. He said it's the final straw in an escalating pattern of behaviour she has displayed this year.
"It's wholly and grossly inappropriate behaviour, which should end now," he said.
During the podcast, Johnston repeatedly flashed photos of the mayor and other councillors alongside their contact information, next to a rainbow flag and a heading reading: "Pickering pedophile profile." He also mocked their physical appearances in great detail.
At one point, Johnston suggested a violent dog be let loose on city council, alongside a claim that "70s biker types with the big biceps … [and] knuckles that had scar-tissue" should remove the mayor and city councillors by force.
Robinson did not join in on these comments, but continued speaking with Johnston without countering his remarks. On a video recording, she can often be seen smiling, laughing and nodding as Johnston speaks.
"I don't need to sit there and critique somebody else's opinion," Robinson told CBC Toronto in an interview.
Councillor says she doesn't condone host's comments
Robinson went on to say she does not condone what Johnston said in a "hateful manner" — and said that her colleagues have a history of making "vicious attacks" on their opponents — something the councillors deny.
"All the councillors are getting a taste of their own medicine," she said. "Somebody's actually calling them out."
That "somebody" has a history of criminal convictions and civil judgments that have gone against him.
In 2019, Johnston was ordered by a judge to pay $2.5 million against a restaurant chain owner for what the judge described as "a loathsome example of hate speech at its worst."
He also pleaded guilty to criminal harassment of an Alberta Health Services inspector in July 2021. Two months later, he pleaded guilty to a hate crime in Ontario.
Johnston told CBC Toronto he does not consider himself to be an extremist, racist or far-right, and does not advocate violence.
In the wake of the podcast's release, several councillors told CBC Toronto they are considering legal action. Johnston said he is financially prepared to deal with any lawsuits.
Johnston, who had a failed mayoral run in Calgary in 2021 and now lives in Panama, also said he can't say whether Robinson agreed with everything he said on the podcast.
"But I do think she enjoyed herself," he said.
On Thursday, Ashe and the rest of the city council sent a letter to Premier Doug Ford and Municipal Affairs Minister Paul Calandra, asking them to amend the Municipal Act so that councillors can face punishments stricter than pay docking when they violate codes of conduct — including potential removal from office.
In a statement, Bianca Meta, Calandra's press secretary, said the government is exploring options to strengthen the municipal code of conduct framework.
She said there are ongoing consultations with municipalities, the provincial integrity commissioner and the office of the attorney general to chart a path forward.
"Our government believes in the local democratic process, and we trust voters to hold local politicians accountable at the ballot box," she said.
Robinson sanctioned twice by integrity commisioner
This is not Robinson's first brush with controversy. In October, she was sanctioned and docked 60 days' pay after the city's integrity commissioner found her actions promoted transphobic and homophobic views.
The councillor had put forward three motions that would eliminate gender-neutral change rooms, block Pride flags from city buildings and add an 18-plus age restriction to story times hosted by drag queens.
This sanction increased Robinson's profile, turning her into a "darling of the alt-right," Coun. Mara Nagy said.
Robinson, meanwhile, told CBC Toronto it's a lie that she courts far-right extremists.
In September, Robinson received a 30-day pay sanction after the integrity commissioner found she had made a Facebook post that was bullying and intimidating, according to the commissioner's report.
Robinson was elected to city council in 2022 after she was dropped as a federal Conservative candidate the previous year over past Islamophobic tweets.
At one point during the podcast, Johnston shows a photograph of Coun. Shaheen Butt.
"He's a Muslim … His book says that if a man is a homosexual, you must light them on fire, behead them, or throw them off a cliff. And he's voting for this radical, LGBTQ, perversion stuff," Johnson says.
Robinson replies: "I thought I would have an ally with him when I was trying to bring my three motions forward, but definitely not."
Coun. Robinson previously denounced Pride Month and Black History Month.
Council worried about more harassment after podcast
Over the past year, councillors say they've been harassed by Robinson's supporters.
"Typically, when [Robinson] goes on these alt-right podcasts, and it's not the first time, the rhetoric on social media gears up," Ashe said.
They said they're concerned her recent podcast appearance may make matters worse, both for them and their families.
According to the councillors, Robinson's supporters regularly travel to council meetings from out of town, often disrupting proceedings. More than one supporter has been arrested, Nagy said.
CBC Toronto has reached out to Durham police about arrests at city council.
As well, several councillors say they've been followed home. Both Nagy and Coun. Linda Cook said they've received death threats. Robinson said these harassment allegations are an attempt by councillors to distract from their own "egregious behaviour."
In recent months, the council adopted heightened security measures, at taxpayers' expense.
Paid duty officers are now present at every council meetings, Mayor Ashe said. Council members are now allowed security systems at their homes, paid for by their city.
Integrity commissioner investigations into Robinson's conduct are also expensive, he said.
"We have incurred considerable costs because of the actions of councillor Robinson," he said.
In the aftermath of the episode, Cook said there is no real clear path as to how Pickering council can function properly and return to addressing municipal issues.
"This distraction is not serving our community," she said.
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