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The Current Transcript for January 7, 2022

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

DELILAH: [SOUNDCLIP: My name is Delilah, and I'm seven years old. And during this pandemic, I have been playing with my toad and it makes me happy getting to see my toad's warm smile.]

MATT GALLOWAY: These are tough times for Delilah and other kids across Canada. Itchy masks. It's hard to see your friends. Virtual school stinks. This is not what life is supposed to be like when you're seven, even if you have a toad. And so this morning we thought we'd have some fun, some special guests just for kids who are caught up in this pandemic. We've got storytellers, music, meditation for kids and a Canadian icon who has spent more than 40 years connecting with children and their parents.

RAFFI: I think it's hardest for children to go through stressful times because they often don't understand why they're going through the tough time in the first place, so we have to be really compassionate. If we have that empathy. I think it'll see us through the tough moments.

MG: The one and only Raffi will be here to talk about the power of music and sing us some songs. Our Friday Fun for Kids begins in about 45 minutes. Also this morning, the pioneering theatre producer Nina Lee Aquino on the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. And how she'll try to change that narrative when she takes over as artistic director of the National Arts Centre's English Theatre. We begin, though, with our panel of political veterans on the challenges facing governments in 2022 COVID, it turns out, is just the beginning. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current.

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Our political panel analyzes the year ahead in Canadian politics

Guests: Anne McLellan, Libby Davies and Ted Menzies

MG: What a difference a few weeks make. In November, the federal government was announcing an end to COVID financial supports. Vaccines had just been approved for kids, and it seemed like maybe, just maybe we were turning a corner. But yesterday, the prime minister was urging pandemic weary Canadians to pull together once again.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: [SOUNDCLIP: There's no magic bullet on this. None of us want to be here right now. But we know what to do to get through it, and I know Canadians will continue to do it even though we're tired, even though we're frustrated. We can get through this together.]

MG: To talk about the political fallout from Macron and the year ahead in national politics. I'm joined by our panel of political veterans, Anne McLellan served as the Liberal MP for Edmonton Centre from 1993 through 2006. She held a series of cabinet posts, including Minister of Health and Deputy Prime Minister. Libby Davies is the former NDP House leader. She served 18 years as the MP for Vancouver East. And Ted Menzies was the Conservative MP for the former riding of Macleod in southern Alberta from 2004 through 2013. He served in the Harper cabinet as both parliamentary secretary and minister of State for Finance. Good morning to you all.

ALL: Good morning.

MG: Anne McLellan, it feels like this week has been a month in some ways given everything that we're going through, and it does feel in some ways that we're back to square one. I know that we have vaccines. I know that this is a different time, but you can understand that sinking feeling that Canadians have. Did governments underestimate the threat of Omicron?

ANNE MCLELLAN: I don't think they underestimated the threat. First of all, just let me say to your previous point, I think we do have to take on board the fact that people are exhausted. Everybody is exhausted primarily, but not exclusively, our frontline healthcare professionals. People are exhausted and people are frustrated and you're starting to see that frustration play out and much more vocal ways in relation to that part of the population that continue to be unvaccinated. But in terms of Omicron itself and whether governments reacted too slowly, they certainly reacted more quickly in relation to it when it was first identified in South Africa. And in fact, the government of Canada received some criticism for closing borders to a certain number of African countries. I think provinces acted more quickly. The warnings, I think, from chief medical officers across the country were given. So I think people have to remember this is an evolving crisis with this pandemic and this particular variant of the coronavirus. It will change. It will change quickly on you. You hope that governments and healthcare systems and all of us are learning from the previous surges. I think we are in terms of vaccinations, rapid tests, delivery mechanisms. All the infrastructure that goes with taking the knowledge we have and operationalising it. But at the end of the day, I think the PM's right there is no magic bullet. We... Exhaustion frustration, but we have to bear down and get through this and we will.

MG: I guess, I mean, I want to bring Ted and Libby into this in a moment. But just very briefly, if we're talking about being caught flat footed, you mentioned things like rapid tests. You can't get rapid tests for love or money in much of Canada. They're very difficult to get a hold of. The federal government has ordered more. There will be, you know, hundreds of millions of rapid tests spread out across the country. But if that's one of the tools, again, this is the criticism that the prime minister is getting. If that's one of the tools that we need and we don't have it right now. That's why some people might suggest that we've been caught flat footed.

ANNE MCLELLAN: Well, I would say that the government of Canada has delivered tens of millions of rapid tests to the provinces. And one presumes they have been delivered. Certainly, the provinces were criticised early on for keeping those tests and not perhaps being quite sure what to do with them. And provinces again, some provinces providing them to schools early on, others not and so on. But this is a global pandemic. And therefore, you know, the procurement side of dealing with this pandemic is very important. I don't think procurement has been perfect, but I think in light of what we've learned and known, I again... I don't want to be defensive about this.

MG: Fair enough.

ANNE MCLELLAN: I would say that we're in a better place. If you want to talk about this, relatively, we're in a better place than many countries around the world. We certainly have no shortage of vaccines. So maybe we should be encouraging in whatever ways people think appropriate to reach that, what is it? 10 percent of the population that remains unvaccinated.

MG: Ted Menzies, Erin O'Toole yesterday accused the Liberals of normalizing and incentivising lockdowns as the primary response to COVID. Do you think the federal approach needs to change now?

TED MENZIES: Well, I don't know that, I mean, all of a sudden, this is our new normal dealing with this, and it's a massive challenge, but to cover it with a blanket statement that we need to normalize and lock down that, that's a very subjective statement. I guess my concern is that until we can... And Anne made some very good points about this, who knew this was coming? This wasn't the normal. Tell me one leader anywhere in the world that actually had a plan to deal with this sort of an outbreak that would cover the entire world. I mean, we're reaching, we're nearing six million deaths from COVID right now. No one expected this. So every country, every leader and every government is reacting in a different way, and some are more leaning towards a lockdown. Has it been successful? We're not sure. I guess the aftermath when we review this process, we may decide what was the right decision and what wasn't. But to just lockdown and throw the key away. If you want to use that term, we have to continue on. We have to fight through this. And, you know, on a personal level, get vaccinated.

MG: What about the unvaccinated Ted? How do we and how should governments go about approaching the unvaccinated? There have been differing approaches to this, certainly and different ideas about this in the last 24 hours.

TED MENZIES: Certainly, there has been, as I say, my personal viewpoint on this is get vaccinated. It's that simple. Until we can spread the vaccination to other countries and just today, W.H.O. is saying that 36 countries are less than 10 percent vaccinated. And until we solve that problem, yes, we've got a problem here in Canada. We need to continue encouraging those people to get vaccinated, protect not only yourselves, but the people around you. But until we can work with other countries and get them vaccinated to a respectable level, a safe level, we still will continue to face this.

MG: Libby Davies. If there is not a lot that governments could have done to be aware of this variant arriving... Again, it seems as though it was sprung on most governments around the world. What more could the federal government be doing now, given that Omicron is in our midst?

ANNE MCLELLAN: Well, I would certainly agree with Anne that there is a sense of exhaustion. But I think the issue here, Matt, is what have we learnt over two years? We're approaching two years. And for me, you know, when you ask the question, does the federal approach need to change? I would say yes. You know, why aren't we tracking where the tests are going? I mean, I find it astounding that 140 million tests have been sent out. There's another 140 million that are coming. Where have they all gone? Where are they being used? So we get caught between sort of a federal and provincial jurisdiction, but surely during an emergency, a pandemic in terms of process and communication and tracking, we can do a lot better job. Let's go back to Sars. You know, the Public Health Agency of Canada was set up in response to Sars to establish that national presence to deal with a situation like this. And so, you know, yes, a pandemic takes a population, a globe, a country by surprise. But surely we must have learned better how to be on top of the issue. And I would name one, which is the question of our healthcare capacity. I mean, one of the biggest issues right now is frontline workers, healthcare workers, doctors, nurses, professionals, caregivers who are struggling to keep up, who are literally exhausted. That was an issue in terms of health care capacity when it was the health critic for the NDP 10 years ago, it was being flagged as a major issue. You know, it was mentioned in federal budgets and you know, we're going to do better in terms of training and bringing on workers. And yet here we are facing the most unbelievable crunch time. So I think that's a very serious problem. So for me, you know, I think the federal approach does need to change in terms of how it's working with the provinces, with the Public Health Agency of Canada. And we need to have better processes and responses in terms of timelines and tracking to stay on top of yes, what we know is a very challenging and evolving situation.

MG: Anne McLellan, you were the health minister during the Sars crisis. We know that, of course, health is a provincial responsibility, but this is a national emergency. And so is there a greater role for the federal government? The prime minister spoke yesterday and in the wake of his speech, somebody said no more Pep talks take action. Is there a greater role for the federal government in a national emergency like this?

ANNE MCLELLAN: Well, yeah, I think there's always a greater role for the government of Canada, any national government in a global, if you like, emergency. I think the challenge is to figure out what that additional role is in a federation like ours. And here you're dealing with a health emergency. Health is primarily a provincial jurisdiction, and I know people get tired of hearing the jurisdictional argument. But Libby is right in that jurisdiction... And we discovered this was what I refer to as Sars-1 one. In fact, those jurisdictional issues can't be brushed away. It was very clear early on in this crisis, there was some discussion around whether the federal government should declare a national emergency. Well, immediately what you saw from provinces like the premier of my province, Jason Kenney, the premier of Quebec and elsewhere. No, because there is this scepticism and dare I say, even fear around the government of Canada invoking emergency powers. So what you try to do in this federation is work with the component parts, work with the provinces and the territories to reach a situation where, to Libby's point hopefully, you have interoperability at least of sharing, collecting and sharing information across the country so that that information gets up to PHAC in real time to get back to the front lines and be usable by your health care professionals, your public policy makers and so on. But you know what? We're not there yet. That's one of David Naylor's lessons coming out of Sars. We asked David Naylor to do a lessons learned...

MG: From the Sars commission?

ANNE MCLELLAN: After Sars. And in fact, many of the challenges not all, but many of the challenges around Sars were those jurisdictional issues and yes, we created the Public Health Agency and the chief public health officer to try and deal with some of those barriers. And I think we're doing a lot better. And I think Dr. Tam has said that we're doing a lot better in terms of sharing information, getting it in the right places in real time. One of the things coming out of 9/11 we learnt, not Sars, was that you can have a lot of information sitting on people's desks. But if you cannot collect the information, analyse it in real time and get it back to the front lines, it's not going to stop a plane going into the World Trade Centre. So you take those lessons and apply them to Sars-1 and then you apply them again to this particular crisis. But there's no question that we do need to do a better job in terms of collaboration and coordination. Still acknowledging the fact that we are a federation where we have divided responsibilities.

MG: This is just one. I mean, it's obviously the issue that's sucking up a lot of oxygen right now, the majority of oxygen. But it is just one issue that the federal government is going to be facing in the year ahead. And so we have about five minutes left. I thought we might spend that time just talking about some of the other things that you think are going to be on the skillet for those leaders in Ottawa. Ted Menzies for you. If you take a look at whether it's the cost of living, whether it's international challenges, other things, what do you think is the burning issue that we're not talking about now because we're talking about COVID?

TED MENZIES: Well, I don't think we can separate any of them because they all impact together and create, you know, whether it's supply chain shortages for medications, for products, for our industries to to keep functioning, to build the things that Canadians need to keep our economy growing. But one of the concerns and this may just be a pet peeve for me is the issue with rising food costs. This is going to impact so many people and it's going to impact so many people so seriously, like there's… nothing creates anger in people or fear in people quicker than increased food prices. Watch what's going on in Kazakhstan right now, whether this is actually just the increased price of fuel or not. It's probably beyond that. I'm sure, I haven't been there. But the food, the access to food, the access to safe food for us and for us to be able to supply that food to the developing world, that depends on us to provide that food, the cost of producing it, the cost of exporting.

MG: Do you think there's a role for the federal government in addressing those rising costs of food?

TED MENZIES: Well, certainly recognizing it, and I would encourage our finance minister to take that into consideration as how we deal with that. Not that we should be subsidising food. That's not the way to do it, but to recognize the production and the movement of food and how we deal with that. The cost, I mean, for primary producers, the cost of fertilizer in some places has tripled. The cost of other inputs has quadrupled just to produce the food. What a rancher’s getting for his livestock sale is much different than when he got 20 years, he or she got 20 years ago. But look at what the cost of the food is at the food counter in the grocery stores. That's what people see and that's what people are going to address. Our food banks are overtaxed as it is right now, let alone as those prices increase. To me that's a big concern.

MG: Anne McLellan briefly for you. What else should we be talking about? What aren't we talking about because of COVID?

ANNE MCLELLAN: Well, I agree with Ted entirely in terms of the growing issue of food security, not only here and around the world, but I think watch the budget when it comes because hopefully by then, hopefully the budget will be moving forward, we'll deal with the last remnants we hope of COVID. And we will be looking at the, dare I say, the wreckage to the Canadian economy coming out of COVID, at least in terms of Main Street, small and medium sized businesses. What we need to do to stimulate economic growth and what we need to focus on is cleaner, greener, more inclusive economic growth. And this budget, I would hope, will focus and there's a lot embedded in that. But the focus, I do believe, has to be on economic growth going forward. The other issues that this government and governments everywhere are going to have to focus on, climate change, ongoing measures for a meaningful reconciliation. And then you've got the geopolitical situation where you've got Russia and Ukraine, China and Taiwan about a host of other issues with Russia. You've got the American midterm elections and a growing concern about the state of democracy.

MG: So it's a long list. I want to...

ANNE MCLELLAN: It's a long list.

MG: I want to slide Libby Davies in here because we're just about out of time. Libby, from your perspective, what should we be talking about?

ANNE MCLELLAN: I'll try and shorten the list, Matt. I think what underpins a lot of the political challenges ahead, at least for me, is the ability to deliver. I think Canadians are fed up with talk and plans. It's the ability to deliver. And if you look at the pandemic, I mean, I think one of the glaring things has been the understanding of how so many workers are vulnerable. So wage inequity, the fact, to have decent living wages for people. You know, the recent CCPA report that noted the incredible packages for the top 100 CEOs. And yet most workers in Canada are having a really tough time getting through. So I think that has to be addressed. I'll be looking for the climate emergency, the Net Zero Emissions Accountability Act, you know, that's meant to come in by March. Will it deliver or will it yet be another plan? I certainly agree with Anne in terms of indigenous relations. We just saw the First Nations child welfare agreement. You know, Cindy Blackstock first raised that as a complaint 14 years ago. So yes, we have an agreement. But as she has said, the question is the implementation. So I think that's sort of a key issue as we go into this budget is the ability to deliver on some of these questions.

MG: No small list of things for those in Ottawa to deal with. We will come back to this conversation. In the meantime, it's great to have you all here this morning. Thank you very much.

ALL: Thank you.

MG: Anne McLellan served as an MP for Edmonton Centre from '93 through 2006. Libby Davies, former NDP House leader, served 18 years as the MP for Vancouver East. Ted Menzies, MP for the former riding of Macleod in southern Alberta from 2004 through 2013. Your CBC News is next and then parents gather the kids. These are tough times for children. We have special programming for kids songs, stories and Raffi. That's coming up.

Pioneering theatre producer Nina Lee Aquino on Canadian identity and theatre, and why now’s the time for a fun-tervention

Guests: Nina Lee Aquino and Catherine Price

MG: Good morning, I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current.

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MG: Still to come, it's all about the kids. In about 10 minutes, we'll be hearing from youngsters about how they're holding up during this latest stage of the pandemic. Plus, we've got a few special guests to help give you kids and your parents some ideas on how to keep having fun, even when COVID is making it tough. But first, transforming Canadian theatre in the midst of a pandemic.

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MG: It has been a difficult few years for people in the performing arts sector in Canada. Theatres are closed again in much of this country. Performances cancelled in a precarious industry, hanging by a thread in many communities. For the past decade Nina Lee Aquino has been running Toronto's wildly successful Factory Theatre as its artistic director. She's a director, a writer, a teacher, winning accolades and awards, and all those roles as a trailblazer and a game changer. And now, at a time when theatre has seen its fair share of challenges, it's just been announced that Nina is moving on to an even bigger stage. Later this year she will become the artistic director of English Theatre at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa. Nina Lee Aquino, good morning.

NINA LEE AQUINO: Good morning, Matt. Thank you for having me.

MG: Congratulations.

NINA LEE AQUINO: Thank you.

MG: Why did you want this job?

NINA LEE AQUINO: I know, right? [Laughter] That's crazy. Well, I think the desire to grow my artistic leadership always. The wider... The ability to have a wider reach, a more extended scope, the bigger the platform, the more voices I can amplify, the more stories I can nurture, right? So I think that, that I wanted to test that out. I wanted to push my own artistic boundaries.

MG: Let me ask you about amplifying those voices. You have said when it comes to your artistic path that it is... these are your words "about making the invisible visible it's something that's not going to change. It's not a mandate. It's just who I am". So who are you?

NINA LEE AQUINO: Well, I think I'm a Filipino Canadian artist, an immigrant, a daughter of a diplomat. And you know, there's... I'm a multifaceted human being. And I think that my lived experiences of all of those facets, I think contribute to... stories to tell that I think can change the world. That can transform us as Canadians into better human beings.

MG: What do you mean those stories can change the world?

NINA LEE AQUINO: You know, I think that theatre for me has always been a powerful tool. It can transform. It can change. And so the hope always is when one, you know, audiences go into the theatre, they come out different, you know, better human beings, you know, so that the ability to listen, to empathise is always, you know, the faith that I have. And so I think as an artist, you want that. That those are the kinds of stories that you want to nurture. Those are the stories that you want to put on the stages because you hope that this is my contribution to bettering us and to, you know, staging future possibilities. The promise of humanity right? Of what humanity can be. So I think, yeah, and the goal always remains like I bring all of myself into the work. And so one only sees the work and my passions to get to know who I am inside.

MG: I said that you were a trailblazer and a game changer. Have you always been comfortable in those roles, in bringing your whole self, but also in trying to change the types of stories that we tell about ourselves?

NINA LEE AQUINO: I suppose, I'm just not comfortable with the attention but...

MG: Get used to it.

NINA LEE AQUINO: But, you know again, leadership grows like there's no like Hogwarts School where you know you... there's a school for like, you know, "leadership". But I think that you know, that just grows. You have mentors, you have, you know, a support system that just kind of fans the flames. Right. And I think again, for me, I've always wanted to help. I've always wanted to be in places where I am needed the most. I've always wanted to be in service for, you know, with something, at something. So I am... So naturally, you know, and then I'm bossy. So there you go. The ingredients of that, like, hopefully, you know, make for a good leader. And again, I'm still learning. It's like, you never stop that and you just grow your practice and taking on these challenges, right? Like, that's the thing... Like, I hope that something cracks open again for me and that I learn, as I've learned from Factory, you know, being the AD for 10 years. So I'm bringing that to the NAC and I'm looking forward to what I discover and uncover about myself and my leadership.

MG: There has been a concerted effort in this country of late to make sure that the stories that we tell about ourselves look and sound like the country as it is today. How do you think Canada is doing and what have you... Give us an idea as to what you have done specifically to contribute to that narrative, to contribute to that conversation?

NINA LEE AQUINO: I think that I have the desire to, you know, put, you know, historically excluded voices, bodies on the stage, but not just on the stage, like working for the stage, working behind the stages because I think it's one thing to, you know, be able to cast actors from all walks of life and what you see on the stage looks like, you know, the inside of a TTC bus. But I think it's also important that the people... that the people that are in control of the narrative, that the people creating the narrative, the stories are also coming from all walks of life. And I think that that has been a passion like I think I've... Like, that's always been my agenda. I've never made that a secret in any of the companies that I walk into, and again one can only just see my track record and the work and my passion to make sure that everybody is seen, everybody's heard because I think that's the key to empathy and learning about each other and understanding each other in more profound ways. And so once we kind of, you know, get the ability to walk in somebody else's shoes, you know, even for just like a fleeting moment, we get insight into different kinds of lives. And that to me, is, you know, such... It's important that, you know, we then start thinking collectively regardless of the differences, and we get to appreciate each other's differences and celebrate that and use that to start solving the world's problems. Um yeah. So I think walking into the NAC and exploring what nationhood means in the face of, you know, being in a post-national world in the face of actually trying to celebrate differences. That, to me, is the exciting journey. Like, what does that mean? Right.

MG: You're going to be doing this work and you're doing this work now in the midst of great upheaval. And we're seeing this, as I said, theatres across the country, many of them are closing, productions are being shuttered. Actors, actresses, those who, as you said, are behind the scenes, putting the work onto the stage or wondering about, you know, the viability of what they're doing and their livelihoods. How much of a threat has the pandemic been to the performing arts sector in this country?

NINA LEE AQUINO: You know, theatre has been threatened with so many things way before the pandemic, you know, so and it's still here. We are going to be around for a very long time. And so am I worried?Is this frustrating? Is this making me sad and keeping me up at night? Absolutely. But I do have to say like, you know, it's a resilient art form for a reason. Again, you know, just being, you know, even during.... Way before this, we've been telling stories and we've been the moral compass of a very healthy society. We are here to enrich, you know, souls and the checking in, you know, we... That's our job, that's what we do. We are different heart surgeons in that case. So we will get through this and we are already figuring out we are getting better at the tools at, you know, future facing kind of tools of how to disseminate theatre in different ways and creative ways. So out of this, yes, there have been fears and frustrations, but there have also been amazing, groundbreaking work and we will continue to do so. Right. So we just have to open ourselves up to different kinds of playgrounds to different kinds of stages, which, you know, often you know, what I've discovered are really far reaching, you know...

MG: What do you mean?

NINA LEE AQUINO: Well, you know the virtual medium, right? Being able to, at Factory, to be able to stream, to livestream a show that can now, you know, it's not just at The Factory at Bathurst and Adelaide, but to be able to present Canadian theatre works in Singapore and Japan for people across the globe to actually tune in and watch our work. That's been an amazing discovery. And to be able to break that barrier right? The barriers of, you know, physically having to go to a theatre. So I'm all for pushing virtual theatre. And, you know, even when we do get control of this pandemic because it has, it has given us accessibility in so many ways, and I want to keep discovering what that is and uncovering what that is and learning again from that.

MG: Just before I let you go, I mean, we're going to be talking in... for the remaining part of the program about kids and what kids need right now because there's a lot of darkness, but it's not just kids that are looking for the light. What is it that the arts can offer all of us right now do you think in this moment?

NINA LEE AQUINO: I think, you know, as the US can show us what is happening today and as you said, you know, the arts can reflect what is going on right now and put it on the stage, whether it's virtual or in-person. The arts can also offer us like what I want to see on the stage is more… is what the world can be, right and not just the reflection of today, but, you know, showing the possibilities of the future. So I think for the kids right now... And you know, and if we already get them into the habit of watching theatre, for example, I think showing the different kinds of futures both the light and the dark, I think is an important and ongoing lesson to be learned in very dynamic, very imaginative ways. So now, more so than ever, if we can find ways to stimulate their imagination, to keep engaging them in dialogue and discussion and conversation, both with like the easy and the hard issues and topics about what's happening, then let's do it. Let's do it.

MG: It'll be exciting to see you do it on a bigger stage. Nina Lee Aquino, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

NINA LEE AQUINO: Thank you so much.

MG: Nina Lee Aquino, incoming artistic director of English Theatre at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa.

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MG: This is The Current on CBC Radio One, my name's Matt Galloway. All right. I know things are pretty dark out there right now. Schools are out. Lockdowns are in, in some communities, not a lot of fun and joy going around. So we thought we would dial up some experts and hear how they're keeping the good times rolling.

DELILAH: My name is Delilah and I'm seven years old and during the pandemic I am playing... I've been playing with my toad and it makes me happy getting to see my toad's warm smile.

MG: Thanks, Delilah. Playing with a pet toad does sound like a lot of fun. For the next half hour or so, we're going to take a break from all the news and have a bit of fun. We'll have songs and stories and more experts like Delilah as well. First up, The author Catherine Price knows a thing or two about keeping things light, and this is something that Canadian kids certainly could be looking for right now. Catherine's new book is called The Power of Fun: How to Feel Alive Again, and in it, she makes the case for why we all could benefit from a fun-tervention. Catherine, good morning.

CATHERINE PRICE: Good morning. Thank you so much for having me.

MG: How to feel alive again I think it's something that a lot of us are grasping for right now. How do you define fun? I think fun for many people is kind of out of reach right at this moment.

CATHERINE PRICE: Well, this is the interesting thing about fun. When I started researching my book, I realised there's not a good agreed upon definition of it. You'll find things like light-hearted pleasure. But if you talk to people about the moments in which they had the most fun, you'll find that they're the moments in which people felt the most alive. It's much deeper. And so I propose that the definition of true fun, as I call it, is actually that it's the combination of three states, which is playfulness, connection and flow, and I'd be happy to explain this more if you'd like. Playful, connected flow.

MG: Please do.

CATHERINE PRICE: Thank you for the invitation because adults... Hi, adults and hello children and guess what this is for both adults and kids, not just kids. But playfulness does not mean that you have to play charades or play a game adults freak out when you hear play. It just means having a light-hearted attitude and not caring too much about the outcome of what you're doing. Connection is a feeling of, you know, obviously connection sometimes with yourself and the activity at hand, but most often with another person. People often describe a special shared experience as being a fundamental aspect of fun, and that's true for introverts as well as extroverts. And then flow is the psychological state where you're so engrossed in your present experience that you lose track of time like an athlete in the midst of a game. And it's a very active experience. It's very different from the zoned out hypnotized state we get into when we say, binge watch Netflix for seven hours at a time. So all three of those states are great for us on their own. But when you put all of them together and you get playful, connected flow that describes some of the moments of true fun, which, as I was saying, are the moments in which we feel the most alive.

MG: And that's different than fake fun.

CATHERINE PRICE: Different than fake fun. So I realize one problem with the word fun is that because we don't have a great agreed upon definition, perhaps until now, we're really susceptible to anyone who tells us that their product or their activity or service is fun, even if it's anything but. And so you know that because you feel... fake fun or things that are marketed to you as fun but don't result in playful, connected flow and often make you feel gross afterwards, they're kind of like the junk food of experiences. Very appealing, and then you can't stop bingeing and then you feel bad. So social media would be the number one culprit for most people right now. Doomscrolling.

CATHERINE PRICE: Doomscrolling, fake fun. Well, you know, I don't know if anyone really thinks doomscrolling is fun...

MG: How do you think the pandemic has challenged our ability, whether you're an adult or whether you're a kid to have fun?

CATHERINE PRICE: The biggest challenge is that connection because obviously we are isolated now, more so than we have been, perhaps in our lifetimes. So I think trying to find ways to connect with each other even when we in many cases have been forced to be physically apart is the biggest challenge, which I certainly know because I wrote the book during the first wave of lockdowns in the United States. So that, I would say, is the biggest issue.

MG: And so in the absence of connection, how do you start bringing real fun, true fun back into your life?

CATHERINE PRICE: Well, you need to make connection. You can still make connection. It is possible, you know, there are ways that we can truly connect with each other. So I think the first step is to prioritize. Well, actually the first step is to recognize that fun is not frivolous. That's the biggest misconception we have during pandemic times. And in general, we think of it as just something for kids or the bottom of our priority list. So I'd like to have a call to action right now. Canada and the world. Fun is not frivolous. It's actually essential to our mental, physical and emotional health in ways that go way beyond anything that we have acknowledged. And I would say that we should stop putting it at the bottom of our list. First of all, because we deserve to enjoy our lives. But second, because fun is a very powerful force that brings us together with other people and energizes us and gives us more power to do all the other important things in our lives, whether it's being a parent or a partner or a friend or, you know, a worker or a citizen. You can't solve the world's biggest problems if we're just focussing on things that divide us and if we're constantly depleted.

MG: You talk about something called noticing delights. What is, I mean, in some ways, that's about enjoying your life and enjoying the things around you. Tell me more about that.

CATHERINE PRICE: Well, our natural tendency as human beings is to focus on the negative. The things that cause us anxiety or stress us out. And that makes total sense if you think about it evolutionarily because you have to be aware of threats in order to survive. But the problem is that it's a pretty miserable way to live, and that is why we keep doomscrolling. Even though I would argue that no one really thinks that it's very fun. So you need to make a concerted effort to shift our focus to the more positive things. I should say. I'm not being a Pollyanna at all, but there's a real benefit in noticing, even in these times, all the amazing things happening to us or around us at all times. And one easy way to do so is this practice of noticing the lights, which is an idea I got from a poet named Ross Gay, who wrote a whole book called The Book of Delights about things that delight him. And it's really simple. All you do go through your day, you see something that gives you even the mildest spark of delight. And when that happens, you put a finger in the air. This is important even though you'll feel dumb and you say out loud. Delight! You label it.

MG: [Chuckle] You actually say it out loud?

CATHERINE PRICE: Yes, I want you to hear... Say right now, Matt. Delight.

MG: Delight.

CATHERINE PRICE: There you go. Did you put a finger in the air? I can't tell.

MG: I'm just doing it right now.

CATHERINE PRICE: Yes, OK. So the reason for that? Well, it's just kind of a fun thing. But there's actually scientific evidence that accompanying a positive observation and saying it out loud with a physical gesture helps you to internalise it more. And it makes it even better for you. And even better than that is to share it with other people. So for all those families or anyone out there listening who are just feeling demoralized and fatigued by everything happening right now, I want to encourage and invite you today to notice two or three things that delight you. Put a finger in the air, label it as such. And then share it with someone that's a beautiful use of technology, something that truly does bring us together. I have a lot of text delight chains going on with friends and so routinely through the week I get random texts, often from people I haven't seen in more than two years at this point, with a picture of something and a little caption that says Delight! And every time... I actually put my finger in the air instinctively, as I said that. And every time I see those, I feel a little bit of delight in myself. And it inspires me to look for more delight in my own life. And it might sound kind of, I don't know, simplistic or silly, but I swear it is very effective. So I invite everyone to try that and start a delight chain.

MG: There's an intentionality about that. Like you have to... You look for something, but you also acknowledge something and you recognize it and celebrate it, rather than just focusing on the negative and having a negative bias.

CATHERINE PRICE: Well, that's the thing that's kind of funny to think about. When I started this with my friend who told me about Ross Gay's book, We're joking around about what if we started an anxiety practice? And every time we saw something that brought us anxiety or fear or despair, we were like, you know, raised a finger in the air and anxiety, despair. You know, we thought, what effect would that have on our mood, which we were laughing about? But if you think about it, all of us are currently in a despair practice and it's not doing good things for our mental or emotional or physical health. So if you shift your... Just a little bit of intention can really open up this whole world. Very simple things. It's very easy and it feels much lighter to me than something like... Another effective technique is a gratitude practice, but that feels a bit more onerous to me. Delight is easy and we need easy right now.

MG: In the next half hour of the program, we're going to be bringing some joy and delight, hopefully to kids and their parents. What are the cues, just finally, that we could take from kids when it comes to having fun?

CATHERINE PRICE: I mean, that little toad thing, you know, just said it all. And I think that... I don't know, maybe I'm overly emotional, but I actually got a little teary when I heard her talk... Delilah talk about her toad's warm smile. It was so beautiful. And it's like who out there of the adults in the audience has noticed a toad's warm smile recently. I mean, I haven't been around many toads, but like the little moments like that are everywhere. And I think that one thing kids can really help adults with is to notice those things. So I think that, that's a big step to take. I'm actually going to be running a February fun-tervention for people to try to help us all start to orient a bit more towards the positive and notice more opportunities for fun, partially as a way to boost my own spirits during a challenging time. But I invite everyone to come along on that journey, and maybe we'll find some toads to admire.

MG: A fun-tervention. I love this idea. Again, there's an intentionality about it, we're going to decide that we're going to have fun.

CATHERINE PRICE: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

MG: Catherine, this has been great fun speaking with you. Thank you very much.

CATHERINE PRICE: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

MG: Catherine Price, science journalist and author. Her most recent book is called The Power of Fun: How to Feel Alive Again. You can learn more at howtohavefun.com. We are going to have more of our special kids' edition of The Current coming up after your regional update. More music. We have a story. More fun. Very special guests will call in on the banana phone. Who could that special guest be? Here's a hint. With help from some young listeners.

[SOUNDCLIP: FEMALE VOICE: Hi, this is:

LENA: Lena.

FEMALE VOICE: and.

SPARKLE: Sparkle.

FEMALE VOICE: And how old are you guys?

BOTH: Three!

FEMALE VOICE: And what is your favourite Raffi song? (kids start singing "the wheels on the bus") Why do you guys like that Raffi song? You don't know. Oh, OK, thanks.]

[MUSIC:The wheels on the bus by Raffi]

MG: More, Raffi, coming up after your regional update, I'm Matt Galloway. The Current's back in 90 seconds. Stay with us.

[MUSIC: song continues]

A half-hour of fun with music, storytelling and exercise

Guests: Raffi, Emil Sher and Michelle Candelaria

MG: Hi, I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current, and today we are dedicating the rest of the program to the younger listeners, the ones who might be stuck at home yet again. Luckily, there are lots of ideas for how to have fun even in a pandemic.

[MUSIC: slow piano and drums]

ABIGAIL: Hi, my name is Abigail, and I'm six years old. When it's lockdown I like to play on my computer and play with my brother.

ELOISE: My name's Eloise. I'm eight years old. What I like to do during the pandemic is make snowmans for friends and do snowball fights with my brother. I have a Harry Potter potions kit, so I use it to make potions.

ALEXANDRA: Hi, my name is Alexandra, and I'm eight years old and I enjoy colouring and I facetime, my friends.

YOUNG BOY: I've been going sledding for two days with my mom and dad and my brother, so I have lots of fun.

LANDON: Hi, I'm Landon Johnson and keep myself busy in COVID. I've just been playing video games, a bunch of them like lots and lots. I mean, at least you get to sleep in. That's good.

THOMAS: My name is Thomas. I'm three years old, when schools closed then I watch TV.

BRINN: Hi, I'm Brinn. I'm 12, and here's how I had fun in the pandemic. Me and my sister, we'd just like, go downstairs using our karaoke machine or just pretend we're at a karaoke bar, just not really caring and kind of pretending everything was normal again. Also, we did a million jumps on the trampoline and that was basically what we did all day, every day, aside from our online school.

MG: Video games, TV, potions, Brinn and her karaoke. I think she's on to something. If there's one person who has been the voice of kids music in Canada over the years, that would probably be Raffi, whether it's belting out Down by the Bay from the back seat of the car during a long road trip or drifting to sleep singing Baby Beluga, the music of Raffi has provided the soundtrack for generations. Your correspondent included, it is a treat to have him here now. Raffi, good morning.

RAFFI: Yello, I'm on my banana phone, Matt.

MG: He's got the banana phone right in his hand.

RAFFI: In his ear. It's a shaker.

MG: How are you doing in the midst of this pandemic? This has been a tricky time for so many of us.

RAFFI: It's been an interesting couple of years, to say the least. I've recorded three albums in the last two years, released two of them and the third one is just completed, will be released in April. So that's interesting. Two years ago, Yo-Yo Ma joined me for a special version of Baby Beluga on the 40th anniversary of that song. And if people haven't heard or seen that video, there's quite a surprise at the end, that was lovely. And then I recorded with Lindsey Monroe, a singer in Massachusetts I've been working with, a couple of albums. One's called I Am Kind: Songs for Unique Kids. Her songs are particularly well suited for families with neurodiverse children. So it's been great fun to sing with Lindsey. And then we did another album together called Frogs and Birds, and I even wrote a song or two that I contributed to that. So I've been busy and musical, and it's fun.

MG: What do you think music can give us in this moment?

RAFFI: Just try and do without it, it's the elixir that primes our joyful faculties, right? It's such a comfort on many levels, depending on the music, of course. But for young children, especially, they get to sing along with me in the videos that they love. They hear the songs in audio and make them their own, and they find joy and comfort, you know, and in these songs, especially the familiar ones.

MG: You have been doing this for so long. What do you get back when those kids... I mean it's different now because concerts are kind of on pause for a minute, but even on the screen, if you see them looking back at you or you're there on a stage and they're singing along and jumping around and having a great time, what do you get back still from this?

RAFFI: Pure love. [chuckle] Matt, the concerts, you know? I mean, you yourself, I think, are Beluga grad, and there's...

MG: Yes.

RAFFI: Tens of millions of Beluga grads out there. So the concert hall, you know, is... Whether it's Roy Thomson Hall or the Orpheum in Vancouver. The concert hall is full of Beluga grads, and there's so much love in the air. Oh, my goodness, not just from the grads themselves, but their own kids and then them together, you know, experiencing the songs as a family, it's just beautiful.

MG: We can't talk about music without hearing some music. And I mean behind you... People can see I'm talking to you on Zoom. There's some guitars behind you. You have a ukulele in your hand. Can you play us a little something?

RAFFI: Sure. This is a new one that I wrote and recorded with Lindsey. It goes like this. [ukulele starts] "I see you, I hear you, and I respond to what you do and say. I see you. I hear you. I do. [vocal pause] Winter, summer, spring or fall. Caring keeps us through the seasons. Rainy days or brilliant sunshine. We'll be there and show we care. I see you, I hear you and I respond to what you do and say, I see you. I hear you. I do". [ukulele stops]

MG: That's Raffi live on The Current. Not often that you get to say that on public radio, but I'm very excited to be able to do such a thing.

RAFFI: Let's do it some more!

MG: What do we need to remember about what kids are capable of, do you think in times like this? A lot is being asked of them. A lot of kids aren't in school right now. They're seeing the things that they love to do be pushed to the side for a moment. What do we need to be thinking about when it comes to kids?

RAFFI: I think it's hardest for children to go through stressful times. We adults, we have ways of, you know, coping with self-regulation and such. It's harder for them because they often don't understand why they're going through the tough time in the first place. So we have to be really compassionate. Our hearts need to open very, very wide, stressed as parents are and caregivers. I understand that, you know, it's a challenge for all of us, clearly. But if we keep that in mind, if we have that empathy, I think it'll see us through the tough moments better.

MG: What would you say to kids? I mean, you're speaking to a parent, to me as a parent, what would you say straight to those kids?

RAFFI: Well, as the song says, I see you, I hear you. And within those words, there is great love. I love you. I see you. You matter to me. I respond to what you do and say. So that's a huge warm hug right there.

MG: Can I be indulgent and ask you to play a little bit more?

RAFFI: [Laughter] Yeah, OK. I'll see if I can remember the words to this song. I recorded a song for healthcare workers, essential workers who have been seeing us through the pandemic. [ukulele starts] Every one of us, in the web of life gives a little each day. Da,da,da, help is on the way. Cleaners, drivers, nurses and doctors and da,da,da. I'm forgetting the words. So many helpers to be found. Help is all around and we can say thank you. We can say thanks for all you do. We can say thank you, for all you do. That's what the song is called. For all you do. [ukulele stops].

MG: When I was singing Baby Beluga to my kids, I never imagined that I would talk to Raffi on the radio and have him sing to the kids across this country. You're a good sport and your music means so much to so many people in this country. Thank you very much.

RAFFI: You're so kind. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks, Matt. I'm a big fan of you and The Current as well. Thank you.

MG: Raffi, children's entertainer, singer songwriter. He joined us from Salt Spring Island, British Columbia.

[MUSIC: Octopus's Garden by Raffi]

MG: That's Raffi and Octopus's Garden, if you're a kid who loves to read or a parent who loves reading to your little ones, you've probably come across at least one story by Barbara Reid, whose artwork is created with plasticine. Books include Subway Mouse, Watch It Grow. My next guest is the author of a new book illustrated by Barbara Reid. His name is Emil Sher, and the book is called I Love You More. Emil, good morning.

EMIL SHER: Good morning, Matt.

MG: Tell me where the idea for this book came from.

EMIL SHER: I like to think it's fitting that a children's book began with children. This goes way back, my daughters are now in their 20s, but when they were about seven and nine, they went off to summer camp. And so my wife and I would send them letters, of course, and my wife would make these marvellous doodles at the end of the page. And my artistic skills end at stick figures. So I thought, what am I going to do? So I came up with this wordplay. Perfect example that I'll give is, I love you more than graters love cheese, you know, cheese can be sliced, cheese can be crumbled. Maybe the cheese is ticklish. This is the world of the book, is you can have ticklish cheese, but picture a greater in the kitchen saying, you know, is there anything out there that I can grate? And along comes this ball of mozzarella and the grater is saying, where have you been all my life? Because the mozzarella gives it a sense of purpose, it feels needed, wanted, appreciated. So the pairing just speaks to this sense of affirmation and really being needed and wanted. So that's the guidelines, not the rules of the game. The entire book is told just with those phrases. There's no additional text. But because of Barbara's beautiful, beautiful illustrations.

MG: What about now? I mean, your kids are a lot older, but do you still... is there... because it's a game that in some ways becomes addictive, do the games still continue to be played?

EMIL SHER: I'm so glad you mentioned that because I thought this book, even though it's a children's book, should probably come with a warning label. This is exactly that. I've had friends with... One friend shared it with his granddaughter and he said, My granddaughter loved Barbara's clay work and I can't shake these pairings out of my head. I've been playing it all day. So with my daughter's two recent examples in text we exchanged, one was I love you more than measuring spoons, love recipes. And another one wrote back and said, I love you more than vaccines, love viruses. So it's just, it's never ending. So consider yourself warned. Once you start to play, it just goes on and on and on.

MG: So I've seen the book, it's beautiful. We're on radio, so people can't see it. Perhaps while you're reading it, but you're going to tell the story. And if I can get you to sort of describe some of the illustrations as you go along.

EMIL SHER: I'll do my best.

MG: Emil Sher, away you go. The stage is yours.

EMIL SHER: OK, it actually begins on the title page. We see a young boy named Des. He's about eight or nine and he's being comforted by his mother and we can see he's had a rough day. We don't know the particulars, but when you turn the page, the first words of the story appear. So it's the next page. It's the next morning Des is in his bed. He's lying in bed with a cat on his blanket, and he's still looking a bit grumpy, so mum's at the door to wake him up. And she says, I love you more than flowers, love noses. We turn the page and we're in the kitchen where Des is having a pancake breakfast. Still looking like he's not sure if he's about to give this new day a chance. Mum is pouring herself some coffee and she's all smiles and she tells him, I love you more than eraser's love mistakes. It's a beautiful day as Des steps out of his apartment building, he's heading to school. Mum is close behind. On his way to school he passes a fruit stand run by a husband and wife, and she tells her husband, I love you more than blackboards love chalk. The next scene is one of my favourites, it's a beautiful spread that Barbara has done. It's a street scene. Des and mum are standing at a busy intersection and within earshot. There's a young man that we first saw passing that same fruit stand. And now that man is sitting at a bus stop drinking a coffee with his boyfriend and Des can hear him say, I love you more than cones love ice cream. And now we're at school, Des' mum has gone off to work, Des steps into the schoolyard. He sees a young girl who we also saw at that intersection. And she's looking a little nervous. Her dad is on one knee, tying one of her laces, and he's reassuring her with these words, I love you more than syrup loves pancakes. And at this point, Matt, on the next page, we’re inside the classroom, where Des is having a birthday celebration during his lunch break. And Des' mother has slipped a note into Des' lunch bag that reads, I love you more than laces love shoes. Mum is on a lunch break of her own. She's at a park. In the background is somebody we would have seen on a balcony in Des' apartment and she... Inside her knapsack is a black and white picture that she's holed and that she's had for a very, very long time. And it's a picture of Des' mother and her mother and beneath the picture is a little note that Des' grandmother would have written decades ago to Des' mum, as a young girl. And the note says, I love you more than umbrellas love rain. So what we come to see is that this is almost a family tradition that has been passed from generation to generation because on the next page, there's grandma. Now she has grey hair. Arms wide open. Waiting to hug her grandson Des. He's running to her. The bell has just rung, and she says, I love you more than string loves kites. They're heading to grandma's house on the next page. It's raining. She has her beautiful bright red umbrella and we see a young couple that we would have seen on that streetscape a few pages before when a young man would have been passing by a flower shop and a young girl was riding on a bike. And here they are on a porch, and the young man has just handed the young woman a bouquet of roses and he tells her, I love you more than stars love wishes. We're now inside grandma's apartment. Des is drawing pictures on the floor. Grandma is sitting by a piano, speaking to a photograph of her late husband, and she tells him, I love you more than green loves Spring. Des' mom shows up at the apartment to come pick up Des. She is there with some groceries that she drops off for her mum and she plants a kiss on her mother's head and says, I love you more than hats love heads. Now, the day is sort of beginning to draw to a close, we see Des on the same bed where he woke up again a little bit uncertain. He looks... He's in better shape now after this day of being bathed in love, lying on a bed, he's reading a comic, petting his cat, and the cat looks very content and so does Des. And Des tells the cat, I love you more than piano's love hands. The next page is wordless, it's a beautiful spread of the apartment building at night. Everyone and many of them we would have seen earlier in the book is standing on their balconies beneath a canopy of stars. And on the final page, the last illustration on the last page, Des' mom has fallen asleep on the couch and Des puts a blanket over her and whispers as I imagine he is whispering, I love you more than trees love nests. And that's it.

MG: That's just perfect. Emil it's great to have you here. Thank you very much.

EMIL SHER: My pleasure, Matt. Thank you.

MG: Emil Sher a children's author and playwright. His latest book, illustrated by Barbara Reid, is called I Love You More. We've been talking about having fun. Let's get back to the young experts. William Guppy, Grade five student in Halifax, has some ideas on how to keep busy.

WILLIAM: Hello, viewers of The Current. I know with the lockdown and all that everybody's been really bored. So today I wanted to share five cool board games that I've been playing during the lockdown. Number one, Stratego. That's a really nice game.

[SOUNDCLIP: Stratigo commercial]

WILLIAM: ... Battlefield strategy and you're playing against an opponent and it's very fun. You kind of strategize. So that's a good one. Monopoly, it's a classic. It takes forever if you're trying to buy some time. So that's always a great game. Next is Ticket to Ride.

[SOUNDCLIP: Ticket to Ride commercial].

WILLIAM: It's really long, so again, if you're looking to pass time, that's probably the one you want to go with. Number four. Clue, it's a really nice game, you know, a classic Parker Brothers, you know, fun, interactive. And then finally, Similo, there are different versions of history, fables, etc. It's like really fun, you're trying to guess, guess characters and a lot of fun.

MG: That's William Guppy of Halifax could be our new board game correspondent on the program. We're going to try something a little different now. Michelle Candelaria is an early childhood educator at Sheridan College Childcare, and she incorporates mindfulness exercises into her program for young children. Michelle, good morning to you.

MICHELLE CANDELARIA: Good morning, thank you for having me.

MG: Thanks for being here. How do you explain mindfulness to kids?

MICHELLE CANDELARIA: Oh, in my experience in early learning, actually, it's not explaining it by showing it. So the simplest way to like, teach, explain mindfulness is by modelling the practice, you know, using your observational comments to label how or when your child is being mindful. So, for example, you can say comments like, I'm so excited, I feel jumpy inside, or you look so calm sitting under that tree. You know, give them that language so that as they get older, your children can recognize when and how to be mindful and when it is explained to them by definition, then they'll understand what that means.

MG: We're going to get you to do an exercise in just a moment. But before we do that, just briefly tell me about the value of something like this for kids, especially now when a lot of them are home. There's a lot of schools that are virtual across this country right now, so kids are spending a lot of time sitting in front of a screen. How important is it to take a mindful break for kids?

MICHELLE CANDELARIA: It's extremely important. You know, screen time can be very overstimulating, it can be mentally exhausting. And you know, taking that mindful break can help children to refocus, de-stress and essentially help the mind and their bodies reset for the day.

MG: OK, so we're going to have you guide our young listeners through an exercise. This could be applicable for us old ones as well, but we'll let you take it from here. We have a bit of music for you. Here you go.

[MUSIC: Mindful music]

MICHELLE CANDELARIA: Thank you. Hello, everyone. I hope you're doing well. Thank you for joining me. You know, before we start, find a comfy spot for your body and take a seat. Now that you're sitting, wiggle your fingers and touch your tummy. Take deep breaths like you're blowing a bubble, ready and blow. Wiggle your fingers and bring your arms to the side and stretch and blow that bubble. Wiggle your fingers, bring your up and reach for the sky, reach for that sky, stretch. Blow that bubble. Wiggle your fingers. Bring your arms around your body and squeeze. Blow that bubble. Squeeze. One more bubble. When you are ready, tell your loved one what your body is feeling. For me, my body feels like a leaf blowing in the wind. What does your body feel like? Thank you again for joining me, everyone and stay safe.

[MUSIC: Mindful music ends]

MG: Michelle, thank you very much.

MICHELLE CANDELARIA: You're welcome. My pleasure.

MG: Michelle. It was fantastic. Michelle Candelaria is an early childhood educator at Sheridan College Childcare, getting kids to think about how their body feels and maybe, as she said, just a bit of a break from the time in front of the screen that so many kids have to deal with now, given that school in many parts of this country is virtual, at least for the moment. That's The Current for this Friday. We thought we'd just do something a little different for the last part of the program, just given where kids are at right now and what they're not doing. Coming up next on CBC Radio One, it's Q and there is a connection here in terms of what Tom's going to be doing. Tom will be sitting down with Melanie Doane talking about her work as a music ambassador for kids, and she has a new CBC kids show called Ukulele U. The Ukulele, a great instrument for kids to play. We heard Raffi playing it earlier. Kids can pick up on that as well. That's coming up in just a moment on CBC Radio One. Before we go though, a little bit more fun for the kids, I'm joined by Sunshine and Broccoli, two musicians who've been working hard to keep kids having fun during the pandemic. Good morning to you.

SUNSHINE AND BROCCOLI: Good morning. Hello.

MG: Broc, you have been playing live during the pandemic on social media. Tell me why you wanted to do that.

BROC: Well, we wanted a way to connect with our audiences and our family and friends, and that was the way to pivot. And the way to connect and share through these difficult times was our ability on social media and through music.

MG: And what do you think... I mean, we're going to hear some music, but just before that. These are really difficult times, which is why we're kind of spending a good chunk of time this morning doing this for kids in some ways. What can music bring kids in those tough times, do you think?

SUNSHINE: I think music, as we know, is the universal language, and I think that what it really, truly does is it lifts us all up, right? I actually just posted on our social media, we just had a little bit of a dance party. I'm like, Get up, get your kids up. We know that they're online. We know that it's dark times right now, and we know that the parents and the kids are both struggling. So what can we do? We can blare some music. We can sing at the top of our lungs. We can send a message of love and kindness and that we're going to get through this and we are. We are going to get through this.

MG: You're going to play a song for us. What are we going to hear?

SUNSHINE: This song is called: This is the Song That Makes Me Happy.

MG: Sunshine and Broccoli. And The Song That Makes Me Happy. Take it away.

SUNSHINE AND BROCCOLI: [SOUNDCLIP: Sunshine and Broccoli singing This is the Song That Makes Me Happy]

Thursday January 7, 2022 Full Transcript

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