Did the Liberal caucus laugh at a school burning down? Tory MHA puts question to legislature

While MHAs have yet to debate the details of reports about former cabinet minister Dale Kirby, allegations brought to the floor of the House of Assembly by a Tory MHA suggest that Kirby made jokes about a burned down school in Bay d'Espoir — and that most of the Liberal caucus joined in the laughter,

The details — included in one of the recently completed reports about Kirby by Bruce Chaulk, the commissioner for legislative standards — prompted Tracey Perry to raise the issue Wednesday in question period. 

"One of the complainants stated that the former minister of education frequently made jokes referencing the school that burned, referring to Bay d'Espoir Academy which had burned tragically in January 2017 in a shocking act of arson," said Perry, who represents the southern Newfoundland district of Fortune Bay-Cape La Hune. 

"[The former minister] admitted that he made such comments and defended himself by saying that they were humorous in nature." 

Kirby had evidently told Liberal backbencher Pam Parsons that the part of Bay d'Espoir Academy not destroyed by fire would be sent to Parsons's Conception Bay district as a replacement school. Parsons found the comment "beneath the standards of integrity" required of the MHA code of conduct. 

But Kirby defended himself by saying that his comments were "humorous in nature, nothing more than that" and that "practically every member of caucus" was present when he made the jokes. 

Kirby added that the caucus meeting had been "mind-numbingly boring" and that his comments were "a good opportunity to go over and have a laugh." 

Premier Dwight Ball said he wasn't in the room when the alleged comments were made, and that the report marked the first time he saw the comments.

Ball added he's not sure of the context of the comments, but said a new school will be built. 

Donald Craig MacHaight was sentenced to four years in prison for a string of overnight arsons in 2017 that struck the community's school, town hall and RCMP detachment. 

Perry said she was not impressed by the account Kirby presented to Chaulk in the investigation into complaints about his behaviour. 

"Is it accurate," she asked, "that almost every caucus member was in attendance, cracking jokes about the burnt school in Bay d'Espoir?"

Government House Leader Andrew Parsons suggested to the legislature that Perry was asking "questions for political gain." 

Later, speaking to reporters outside the House of Assembly, Parsons took offence to the allegations, defending his caucus for being upset and said what Perry presented is untrue.

Parsons said he didn't hear Kirby make a joke, and it's not mentioned in the report.

"It's different to talk about one individual, and then to tarnish everybody with that. I'll tell you what it really ticks me off. I don't like being accused of that," Parsons told reporters.

Ball on new process  

Meanwhile, Ball was on the defensive in response to questions about how the investigation of harassment complaints was "flawed" — a word he had used in question period on Tuesday.

"I will say now that, given the fact as we've been getting feedback, there are a number of areas where we see flaws in this process," Ball said today.

"That's the reason why we need make sure we take the appropriate amount of time to make sure that we can bring improvements, Mr. Speaker, so that anyone else in the future that will have to deal with this we can get it right."

Progressive Conservative Leader Ches Crosbie quickly fired back, asking Ball how he plans to make future potential investigations comfortable for members, noting dissatisfaction by at least two complainants as well as those investigated.

"One of the things, Mr. Speaker, that we can do is take this from the floor of the House of Assembly and put it into an arena for the people that have been through this process will not continually be exposed to the discussion that we've been having here," Ball said.

"What I've made the commitment to is zero tolerance, and Mr. Speaker, to make sure we take the appropriate time to make sure we can do whatever we can to correct this process."

In response to Crosbie's question of whether the current process should be used to decide the fate of those who have findings against them, Ball said a new process is already ongoing.

"We already know there's more that needs to be done," Ball said.

Committee reviewing alleged breach by Kirby

Earlier Wednesday, MHAs had voted in favour of tasking a legislative committee with reviewing whether former cabinet minister Dale Kirby breached his privilege by leaking harassment reports to the media. 

House Speaker Perry Trimper said Tuesday he would need a day to decide after Crosbie raised the issue.

"There's merit here," said Trimper on Wednesday. 

The issue centres around Kirby's release of reports by Bruce Chaulk, the commissioner for legislative standards, into Kirby's behaviour.

Releasing the reports was "an indignity to the complainants" that affected the members' ability to do their jobs, said Crosbie.

In a 35-2 vote, members voted to send the matter to the House's privileges and elections committee, which will decide whether to censure Kirby for the alleged breach. 

The only members to vote against the motion were Kirby and former cabinet minister Eddie Joyce — who's also sitting as an independent after other MHAs made complaints about his behaviour. 

Kirby had argued Wednesday morning that he was not bound by confidentiality.

"The lawyers representing me and the commissioner of legislative standards agreed that we were not bound by confidentiality," Kirby said.

Wednesday, Chaulk said while he doesn't have the power to compel people to say quiet, it was understood that was the preference. 

Chaulk said he approached all parties back in May and asked members to sign an undertaking saying they wouldn't make anything else related to the harassment allegations public. One party denied his request, but Chaulk wouldn't say which one.

After that Chaulk said it would be unfair to have others sign so he stopped asking. 

Chaulk added that while he didn't have the authority to ask people not to talk, the undertaking was just an effort to keep things confidential.

Kirby made an impassioned defence of his actions, stressing the similarities between his case and the case of fellow MHA Colin Holloway. 

"My actions were no different that the member for Terra Nova who released two reports sometime between the 24th and the 28th of August. So why would I be singled [out]?" he said. 

"I think it's really a violation of my rights as a member of this chamber, whatever you think of what it was that I did, or allegedly did — and I think all members should consider this — because it could be you at some point."

Reports on Kirby, Joyce

In one of his reports, Chaulk recommended Kirby be reprimanded for inappropriate language when talking with Liberal MHA Pam Parsons. Kirby said he plans to fight that decision.

And in another, Chaulk found Joyce stepped over the line when trying to push fellow minister Sherry Gambin-Walsh to hire someone he knew.

Chaulk will be in the House during recess today to give a technical briefing on his reports to MHAs and the media. 

The reports were posted online late Tuesday afternoon, giving MHAs time overnight to read them before returning to the House to debate.

'This process hasn't worked': Ball

Speaking to reporters at Confederation Building on Tuesday, Ball said he wasn't satisfied with the investigative process. 

"We already know that this process hasn't worked. It's been a flawed process. We need to make it better."

Ball said referring the matter to the privileges and elections committee was a good first step. He wouldn't speculate on how long the committee could take. 

"We just want this to be functional," he said. "We need some good stuff coming out of this."

The House of Assembly will be sitting again on Thursday, and once more on Monday. The debate on the reports will not take place during Thursday's sitting. 

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